Is the sidewall listed for upward? If not what is the rationale for using it that way? If it is not prescribed to be pointed upwards what is the rationale for doing so? A guess that up is better because it logically makes sense? Most of Aristotle makes perfect sense but most of his conclusions based on his observations are wrong.
On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 2:20 PM, Kenneth Berman <[email protected]> wrote: > Yes, the column protection is to prevent collapse of the structure. The > roof level helps, but the columns are also blocked in by racks, and they > also have heads to help (unless there's ESFR). Horizontal sidewalls piped > out of the web of the column, and turned around horizontally toward the > column, presents a target for fork lift drivers with pallets of materials. > Why have a sidewall head that throws fourteen feet blocked at three inches > from a column? I'm just trying to get the most bang for my buck with fire > protection. The sprinkler throwing upwards to cool as much as possible, and > surface tension of the water will adhere it to the column steel all the way > to the floor. > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 4:10 PM, Travis Mack, SET <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > The sprinklers at the roof will help to cool the structure. My > > understanding the 15' sprinkler is to help prevent buckling of the > column. > > > > Travis Mack, SET > > MFP Design, LLC > > 2508 E Lodgepole Drive > > Gilbert, AZ 85298 > > 480-505-9271 > > fax: 866-430-6107 > > email:[email protected] > > > > http://www.mfpdesign.com > > https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 > > Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign > > > > On 7/6/2015 2:09 PM, Kenneth Berman wrote: > > > >> What cools a fifty foot column above fifteen feet? Codes don't say > install > >> horizontal, vertical, up, down. In Tennessee gravity pulls the water > down. > >> I'm cooling twenty nine feet of column to prevent collapse. > >> > >> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 3:55 PM, John Denhardt < > >> [email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> > >> Agree - I never seen one pointed up. > >>> > >>> John > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: > >>> [email protected]] On Behalf Of Travis > >>> Mack, > >>> SET > >>> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 5:00 PM > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Subject: Re: Column Protection > >>> > >>> Where does it say the sidewall is pointed up? I have only seen these > >>> installed in the horizontal position for this application. > >>> > >>> Any steel columns shall be protected by 1-hour fireproofing or a > >>> sidewall sprinkler directed to one side of the column at the top or at > >>> the 15 ft (4.6 m) level, whichever is lower. Flow from these sprinklers > >>> shall be permitted to be omitted from the sprinkler system demand for > >>> hydraulic calculations. > >>> > >>> > >>> Travis Mack, SET > >>> MFP Design, LLC > >>> 2508 E Lodgepole Drive > >>> Gilbert, AZ 85298 > >>> 480-505-9271 > >>> fax: 866-430-6107 > >>> email:[email protected] > >>> > >>> http://www.mfpdesign.com > >>> https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 > >>> Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign > >>> > >>> On 7/6/2015 1:57 PM, Kenneth Berman wrote: > >>> > >>>> You're all missing an important point, the horizontal sidewall is > >>>> pointed > >>>> upwards. A vertical sidewall, upwards, is incorrect. The horizontal > >>>> sidewall cools the column from fifteen feet upwards, and the water > >>>> > >>> returned > >>> > >>>> by gravity cools the column below fifteen feet. > >>>> > >>>> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 2:50 PM, Parsley Consulting < > >>>> [email protected]> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Rocci, > >>>>> I'd echo Travis and Mark's comments. When all else fails, point > >>>>> to > >>>>> 12.12.2.2.4.1, 16.1.4.1, 17.1.4.1, or 18.2.1 (whichever is > appropriate) > >>>>> > >>>> and > >>> > >>>> ask him, politely of course, how he's reaching the conclusion that the > >>>>> sidewall sprinkler must be vertical. > >>>>> In short, ask him to "prove it." > >>>>> *Ken Wagoner, SET > >>>>> *Parsley Consulting*** > >>>>> *350 West 9th Avenue, Suite 206 > >>>>> *Escondido, California 92025 > >>>>> *****Phone 760-745-6181* > >>>>> Visit our website <http://www.parsleyconsulting.com/> *** > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On 07/06/2015 11:20 AM, Rocci Cetani 3 wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> I have a FM questioning the use of horizontal sidewall sprinklers > (he > >>>>>> thinks > >>>>>> it should be a vertical sidewall) with no heat collectors @ 15' > >>>>>> > >>>>> AFF...NFPA > >>> > >>>> 13 2013 17.1.4.1 only states a sidewall sprinkler pointed in the > >>>>>> direction of the column @ 15' AFF. Any suggestions? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Rocci Cetani III, CET > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Lead Designer > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Water-Based Fire Protections Systems Layout, Nicet Level III > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Northern California Fire Protection Services Inc. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> 16840 Joleen Way Bldg. A > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Morgan Hill, CA 93037 > >>>>>> > >>>>>> P-(408) 776-1580 EXT.111 > >>>>>> > >>>>>> F-(408) 776-1590 > >>>>>> > >>>>>> C- (408) 595-3906 > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>> > >>>>>> www.norcalfire.com <http://www.norcalfire.com/> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message and any document accompanying > it > >>>>>> > >>>>> may > >>> > >>>> contain confidential information > >>>>>> > >>>>>> belonging to the sender. The information is intended only for the > use > >>>>>> > >>>>> of > >>> > >>>> individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended > >>>>>> > >>>>> recipient, > >>> > >>>> or > >>>>>> the employee or agent responsible to deliver this message to the > >>>>>> > >>>>> intended > >>> > >>>> recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying or > >>>>>> > >>>>> taking > >>> > >>>> of > >>>>>> any action in reliance on the contents of this information is > strictly > >>>>>> prohibited. 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Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) A problem well stated is a problem half solved. -Charles F. Kettering, inventor and engineer (1876-1958) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
