Mike, to answer your pressure /throw question the answer is that the relationship between pressure and flow for a sidewall sprinkler is very non- linear. Starting at 7 psi a sidewall sprinkler meets the listed throw dimension at the design density. Increasing the pressure incrementally increases the throw slightly up to around 150 psi after which further increases do not. At 200 psi the high velocity of the water across the deflector begin to atomize the water into a mist with very small droplet size and the throw pattern truncates to around 10 feet. This information is based on actual tests we performed some 15 years ago and was based on horizontal throw. Without a deflector, increased pressure equals increase throw in a linear equation. Add the deflector, and it does not.
Mark at Aero 602 820-7894 Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 7, 2015, at 4:37 AM, "Mike Hill" <[email protected]> wrote: > > The purpose of the sidewall directed at the steel column is to put as much > water as possible on the column to keep it cool and prevent failure. A > sidewall aimed directly at a column will put a lot of water on the steel. > The water will still keep the steel cool above 15', just not as cool as it > will be below 15' level. While your solution is a different way to look at > the problem, I think you will run into liability problems for using a > sprinkler in a manner that it is not listed for. Has anyone done a study to > see how far water will shoot vertically from a sidewall sprinkler at various > pressures? > > Mike Hill > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of Kenneth Berman > Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 5:20 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Column Protection > > Yes, the column protection is to prevent collapse of the structure. The roof > level helps, but the columns are also blocked in by racks, and they also > have heads to help (unless there's ESFR). Horizontal sidewalls piped out of > the web of the column, and turned around horizontally toward the column, > presents a target for fork lift drivers with pallets of materials. > Why have a sidewall head that throws fourteen feet blocked at three inches > from a column? I'm just trying to get the most bang for my buck with fire > protection. The sprinkler throwing upwards to cool as much as possible, and > surface tension of the water will adhere it to the column steel all the way > to the floor. > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 4:10 PM, Travis Mack, SET <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> The sprinklers at the roof will help to cool the structure. My >> understanding the 15' sprinkler is to help prevent buckling of the column. >> >> Travis Mack, SET >> MFP Design, LLC >> 2508 E Lodgepole Drive >> Gilbert, AZ 85298 >> 480-505-9271 >> fax: 866-430-6107 >> email:[email protected] >> >> http://www.mfpdesign.com >> https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 >> Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign >> >>> On 7/6/2015 2:09 PM, Kenneth Berman wrote: >>> >>> What cools a fifty foot column above fifteen feet? Codes don't say >>> install horizontal, vertical, up, down. In Tennessee gravity pulls the > water down. >>> I'm cooling twenty nine feet of column to prevent collapse. >>> >>> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 3:55 PM, John Denhardt < >>> [email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Agree - I never seen one pointed up. >>>> >>>> John >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: >>>> [email protected]] On Behalf Of Travis >>>> Mack, SET >>>> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 5:00 PM >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Subject: Re: Column Protection >>>> >>>> Where does it say the sidewall is pointed up? I have only seen >>>> these installed in the horizontal position for this application. >>>> >>>> Any steel columns shall be protected by 1-hour fireproofing or a >>>> sidewall sprinkler directed to one side of the column at the top or >>>> at the 15 ft (4.6 m) level, whichever is lower. Flow from these >>>> sprinklers shall be permitted to be omitted from the sprinkler >>>> system demand for hydraulic calculations. >>>> >>>> >>>> Travis Mack, SET >>>> MFP Design, LLC >>>> 2508 E Lodgepole Drive >>>> Gilbert, AZ 85298 >>>> 480-505-9271 >>>> fax: 866-430-6107 >>>> email:[email protected] >>>> >>>> http://www.mfpdesign.com >>>> https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 >>>> Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign >>>> >>>>> On 7/6/2015 1:57 PM, Kenneth Berman wrote: >>>>> >>>>> You're all missing an important point, the horizontal sidewall is >>>>> pointed upwards. A vertical sidewall, upwards, is incorrect. The >>>>> horizontal sidewall cools the column from fifteen feet upwards, and >>>>> the water >>>> returned >>>> >>>>> by gravity cools the column below fifteen feet. >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 2:50 PM, Parsley Consulting < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Rocci, >>>>>> I'd echo Travis and Mark's comments. When all else fails, >>>>>> point to 12.12.2.2.4.1, 16.1.4.1, 17.1.4.1, or 18.2.1 (whichever >>>>>> is appropriate) >>>>> and >>>> >>>>> ask him, politely of course, how he's reaching the conclusion that >>>>> the >>>>>> sidewall sprinkler must be vertical. >>>>>> In short, ask him to "prove it." >>>>>> *Ken Wagoner, SET >>>>>> *Parsley Consulting*** >>>>>> *350 West 9th Avenue, Suite 206 >>>>>> *Escondido, California 92025 >>>>>> *****Phone 760-745-6181* >>>>>> Visit our website <http://www.parsleyconsulting.com/> *** >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 07/06/2015 11:20 AM, Rocci Cetani 3 wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I have a FM questioning the use of horizontal sidewall sprinklers >>>>>> (he >>>>>>> thinks >>>>>>> it should be a vertical sidewall) with no heat collectors @ 15' >>>>>> AFF...NFPA >>>> >>>>> 13 2013 17.1.4.1 only states a sidewall sprinkler pointed in the >>>>>>> direction of the column @ 15' AFF. Any suggestions? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Rocci Cetani III, CET >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Lead Designer >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Water-Based Fire Protections Systems Layout, Nicet Level III >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Northern California Fire Protection Services Inc. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 16840 Joleen Way Bldg. A >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Morgan Hill, CA 93037 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> P-(408) 776-1580 EXT.111 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> F-(408) 776-1590 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> C- (408) 595-3906 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> www.norcalfire.com <http://www.norcalfire.com/> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message and any document >>>>>>> accompanying it >>>>>> may >>>> >>>>> contain confidential information >>>>>>> >>>>>>> belonging to the sender. The information is intended only for the >>>>>>> use >>>>>> of >>>> >>>>> individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended >>>>>> recipient, >>>> >>>>> or >>>>>>> the employee or agent responsible to deliver this message to the >>>>>> intended >>>> >>>>> recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying or >>>>>> taking >>>> >>>>> of >>>>>>> any action in reliance on the contents of this information is >>>>>>> strictly prohibited. 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