Re: Column Protection

Todd - Work Mon, 06 Jul 2015 14:51:06 -0700

The sections that Ken referenced are pretty explicit on how, when and where

column protection is required. The intent sounds like a way to protect thesteelin situations where the ceiling system densities may be light enough thattheymay not provide adequate cooling. Horizontal sidewalls pointed up are a badidea(and are not permitted by NFPA 13 anyway) since you can't predict how farup

they will throw due to water pressure variations vs gravity.
The standard says "sidewall sprinklers" and does not differentiate between

horizontal and vertical. Therefore I would assume either would beacceptable.


Todd G Williams, PE
Fire Protection Design/Consulting
Stonington, CT
www.fpdc.com
860-535-2080 (ofc)
860-608-4559 (cell)

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On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 5:29 PM, [email protected]
<[email protected]> wrote:
Ken,

based on what I read in the sections I noted earlier I understand
the intent of NFPA 13 is to have the spray from the sidewall sprinkler,
horizontal or vertical, directed to one side of the column. If the
spray is directed up, how does that conform to what NFPA requires? Are
you suggesting the wording in NFPA 13 is incorrect, or that it's just
being incorrectly applied if the spray is directed horizontally, rather
than vertically?

*Ken Wagoner, SET
*Parsley Consulting***
*350 West 9th Avenue, Suite 206
*Escondido, California 92025
*****Phone 760-745-6181*
Visit our website <http://www.parsleyconsulting.com/> ***
On 07/06/2015 2:09 PM, Kenneth Berman wrote:

> What cools a fifty foot column above fifteen feet? Codes don't sayinstall> horizontal, vertical, up, down. In Tennessee gravity pulls the waterdown.

> I'm cooling twenty nine feet of column to prevent collapse.
>

> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 3:55 PM, John Denhardt<[email protected]>

> wrote:
>
>> Agree - I never seen one pointed up.
>>
>> John
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:

>> [email protected]] On Behalf Of TravisMack,

>> SET
>> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 5:00 PM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: Column Protection
>>
>> Where does it say the sidewall is pointed up? I have only seen these
>> installed in the horizontal position for this application.
>>
>> Any steel columns shall be protected by 1-hour fireproofing or a
>> sidewall sprinkler directed to one side of the column at the top or at
>> the 15 ft (4.6 m) level, whichever is lower. Flow from these sprinklers
>> shall be permitted to be omitted from the sprinkler system demand for
>> hydraulic calculations.
>>
>>
>> Travis Mack, SET
>> MFP Design, LLC
>> 2508 E Lodgepole Drive
>> Gilbert, AZ 85298
>> 480-505-9271
>> fax: 866-430-6107
>> email:[email protected]
>>
>> http://www.mfpdesign.com
>> https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692
>> Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign
>>
>> On 7/6/2015 1:57 PM, Kenneth Berman wrote:

>>> You're all missing an important point, the horizontal sidewall ispointed

>>> upwards. A vertical sidewall, upwards, is incorrect. The horizontal
>>> sidewall cools the column from fifteen feet upwards, and the water
>> returned
>>> by gravity cools the column below fifteen feet.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 2:50 PM, Parsley Consulting <
>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Rocci,
>>>> I'd echo Travis and Mark's comments. When all else fails, point to

>>>> 12.12.2.2.4.1, 16.1.4.1, 17.1.4.1, or 18.2.1 (whichever isappropriate)

>> and

>>>> ask him, politely of course, how he's reaching the conclusion thatthe

>>>> sidewall sprinkler must be vertical.
>>>> In short, ask him to "prove it."
>>>> *Ken Wagoner, SET
>>>> *Parsley Consulting***
>>>> *350 West 9th Avenue, Suite 206
>>>> *Escondido, California 92025
>>>> *****Phone 760-745-6181*
>>>> Visit our website <http://www.parsleyconsulting.com/> ***
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 07/06/2015 11:20 AM, Rocci Cetani 3 wrote:
>>>>

>>>>> I have a FM questioning the use of horizontal sidewall sprinklers(he

>>>>> thinks
>>>>> it should be a vertical sidewall) with no heat collectors @ 15'
>> AFF...NFPA
>>>>> 13 2013 17.1.4.1 only states a sidewall sprinkler pointed in the
>>>>> direction of the column @ 15' AFF. Any suggestions?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Rocci Cetani III, CET
>>>>>
>>>>> Lead Designer
>>>>>
>>>>> Water-Based Fire Protections Systems Layout, Nicet Level III
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Northern California Fire Protection Services Inc.
>>>>>
>>>>> 16840 Joleen Way Bldg. A
>>>>>
>>>>> Morgan Hill, CA 93037
>>>>>
>>>>> P-(408) 776-1580 EXT.111
>>>>>
>>>>> F-(408) 776-1590
>>>>>
>>>>> C- (408) 595-3906
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>
>>>>> www.norcalfire.com <http://www.norcalfire.com/>
>>>>>
>>>>>

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