After 3.5 years and 34.000 addresses, I have to admit that an import is the only way to get addresses in OSM fast.
But is the conclusion that we have to make that a crowed-sourced model for map making failed ? That we have to move to an import of third-party databases model ? One were the source is maintained elsewhere and OSM is nothing more than a combination of all those databases ? Are we going to a Google-like model were "ordinary" mappers cannot change stuff and see the result immediately ? Will everything have to be "approved" by the original data source ? Are those the kind of questions that the OSM-future group is thinking about ? Another, related question is how do you want to deal with updates on BAG data now. Can a (tourist) mapper change the building outline or remove it ? Or will it be reverted with the next BAG update when the change is not reported back to BAG ? That's what I've read on the forum when I reported the mistake. regards m On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 9:56 PM, Johan C <osm...@gmail.com> wrote: > Marc, I agree with Maarten. Let's hope that our address data helps users > appreciate OSM apps more. And that these apps are smart enough to draw more > users into mapping. > > You have a good point on maintenance versus the number of mappers. On the > BAG data it's luckily quite simple: thousands of paid people are constantly > working on updating that data. Challenge for the OSM community is to get > these updates efficiently into OSM. That's being worked on, but it needs > some programming on a JOSM plugin. > > 2014-10-05 21:39 GMT+02:00 Marc Gemis <marc.ge...@gmail.com>: > >> For maintenance, the way we do it now doesn't work IMHO. At least not >> with only a handful of (40-50) mappers in both Belgium and The Netherlands. >> We can't keep up with the changes. >> >> IMHO The amount of work to add new data is approx. the same as verifying >> and keeping it up to date. >> I wonder how many mappers we really need to keep a country such a The >> Netherlands up-to-date. Not only on addresses, but also on POIs (companies, >> shops, benches, traffic signs, schools, sidewalks, paths, access >> permissions, etc. etc.) >> >> I also see a "cultural" difference between The Netherlands (having done >> 2 major imports already) and Belgium (more averse towards big imports). So >> it's also interesting to see how this has an impact on those things. >> >> Happy mapping >> >> m >> >> p.s. Hopefully you can drop by some time and remove some of those phantom >> buildings the AND import introduced in the north of Belgium :-) >> >> >> On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 9:09 PM, Maarten Deen <md...@xs4all.nl> wrote: >> >>> On 2014-10-05 20:58, Marc Gemis wrote: >>> >>>> You'll beat us on numbers, that's true. >>>> >>>> Maybe the problem that I see is not so much the imports, but the >>>> maintenance of all that data (imported or manually added). >>>> >>>> Who is going to see all those mistakes, changes, etc. when all the >>>> data is there ? The one that I saw was a building in a forest. That's >>>> easy to spot when it is demolished. But how will you notice that the >>>> shape of a building is incorrect when there are thousands of >>>> buildings? >>>> >>> >>> How will you do this if there has been no import? I see no difference in >>> maintaining OSM data after import or after manual mapping. In both cases >>> the environment can change and it will only be changed in OSM if someone >>> notices. >>> >>> The only difference is that after an import there is more data. If you >>> think maintaining more data is a bad thing, then we all have to stop >>> entering in OSM. >>> >>> At this moment, most communities are still adding data, the Dutch >>>> import speeds up this process, so the Dutch community will be in the >>>> next phase before the others. You can rely on other parties (BAG) for >>>> the updates, but will they catch mistakes ? The building I'm talking >>>> about is demolished 2 or 3 years ago. Why was the BAG not updated yet >>>> ? Will people be looking for mistakes when all data seems to be there >>>> ? >>>> >>> >>> Again, I see no difference with manually entered data. There too you can >>> have features that are years out of date. If no one notices, it is no >>> problem. If a mapper notices it, it will be fixed. >>> >>> So the challenge is to find people that want to find those mistakes. >>>> Less interesting than adding new data. >>>> I'm looking forward to see how the Dutch community is going to tackle >>>> this. >>>> >>> >>> As said: the same as now. If you are not interested in maintaining the >>> data you entered then that data will be outdated too. I'm just so glad we >>> have a nice map in the Netherlands where I only need to fix minor things so >>> I can spend time mapping somewhere else. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Maarten >>> >>> On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 8:10 PM, Johan C <osm...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> <Anyway this is not doing anything positive for my feelings on >>>>> imports.> >>>>> >>>>> In terms of having data for a routing engine (like OsmAnd) a >>>>> definition can be that any missing address in a country is an error. >>>>> The number of missing addresses in the Netherlands is calculated >>>>> recently: on a total of approx. 8,5 million addresses 60.000 are >>>>> missing at the moment (0,7% error). How does that compare to Belgium >>>>> or Germany? >>>>> >>>>> 2014-10-05 19:49 GMT+02:00 Marc Gemis <marc.ge...@gmail.com>: >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 4:49 PM, Johan C <osm...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> The BAG should contain the correct building outline, since this is >>>>> Cadastral information, nowadays updated very often. But as any >>>>> database, the BAG might incidentally have errors. Satellite imagery >>>>> though is at risk of being well outdated. So in these cases it's >>>>> possibly best to have groun truth info to determine the correct >>>>> building outline. >>>>> Funny that Florian found an error, and that I also found 2. And that >>>>> for holiday mappers. :-) >>>>> Anyway this is not doing anything positive for my feelings on >>>>> imports. >>>>> >>>>> regards >>>>> >>>>> m >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Talk-nl mailing list >>>>> Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org >>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl [1] >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Talk-nl mailing list >>>> Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org >>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl [1] >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Links: >>>> ------ >>>> [1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Talk-nl mailing list >>>> Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org >>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Talk-nl mailing list >>> Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Talk-nl mailing list >> Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Talk-nl mailing list > Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl > >
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