On 05/28/2015 12:37 PM, SomeoneElse wrote:
There is a fundamental difference between "an actual name for a place"
and "a translation of one of those names"
I DO agree with this statement[1].
However, I think that the point at which a word stops being a
transliteration and starts being a native word is much sooner than you
seem to. I'm not a linguist, but if I had to pin down when I think a
word becomes part of a language, I'd say whenever the person using it
doesn't think they're code-switching.[2]
It's clear that in many cases, the people writing "Абергавенни" don't
consider themselves to ever be switching out of Russian. To me, that
makes Абергавенни an actual name for the place.
>> The town with the English name Abergavenny also has a
>> Russian name Абергавенни, which is in use by locals, and has been
>> established for hundreds of years.
>
> No, it does not. Abergavenny / Y Fenni has actual names that people
> from there use to describe the place (and appears on signs) in two
> languages; "Абергавенни" is merely a translation of one of them. It's
> not verifiable on the ground.
The question of actual names versus transliterations is addressed above,
but with respect to "on the ground", I assert that if you asked a local
who spoke Russian the question "What is the Russian-language name for
this town?", they would reply "Абергавенни".
Assuming that assertion is correct, is "on the ground" satisfied?
Do you think the assertion is incorrect?
--Andrew
[1] I think the word "translation is wrong here. Translation takes
something in one language and expresses the same meaning in another
language. Transliteration takes something in one language and expresses
the same sounds in another language.
[2] Obviously there's a separate barrier for something to be generally
accepted rather than just one person's made up word. That barrier is
pretty low in the case of a place name, where most people would make up
the same new word anyway.
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