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DAVEH: My latest post is in BLUE........
Terry Clifton wrote:
DAVEH:
While baptism in itself will not save anybody, I firmly believe without
baptism, one cannot be saved. (Mk 16:16 and Jn 3:5) C'mon
Dave:Read Luke.
Start at 19:2 and read down to 19:9.
DAVEH: I read it, and I think
the meaning is much different than I suspect you believe, Terry.
I'm headed to work shortly, and then am leaving town tonight for a few
days, so I won't be able to answer you in detail. But in short, Christ's
birth signaled the beginning of a 'salvation process' for which the Israelites
had been awaiting for thousands of years. Until the advent of Jesus,
at death man had no chance of living again. What this passage refers
to is that the promises made to Abraham and his seed were fulfilled in
Christ. Hmmmmm....maybe that is the wrong way of putting it......perhaps
I should say that once Jesus began the mortal phase of his life, physical
death for mankind (and in particular, the descendents of Abraham) would
soon be realized.
You will find a little fellow that
was saved with no mention of baptism. Same with the thief on the
cross.
DAVEH: I've been through
this several times on TT. Assuming the thief had not yet been baptized
(and from an LDS perspective, we believe he will be afforded that opportunity
by virtue of vicarious baptisms performed by others as was referred to
in 1Cor 15:29), simply put......most Protestants equate "paradise" with
heaven. I have previously explained that is not necessarily correct
thinking. When I return next week, I'll try to explain it to you
and Judy, as she made the same point.
Baptism is an act of obedience
that any true Christian will want to perform as soon as he or she is saved,
but to make it a requirement for salvation prior to salvation would be
saying you are saved by your own works
rather than showing that you are
the recipient of God's mercy.
DAVEH: IMHO, that is an incorrect
way of looking at it. Had Jesus not atoned for our sins, there is
NO WAY we could have saved ourselves by any works whatever. Therefore,
it is by Christ's grace that we are saved....AFTER all we can do for ourselves.
Even non LDS Christians believe they must do certain things to be saved
(believe, repent and endure to the end are some examples that most accept).
The question comes down to where is the line drawyn. I put baptism
in that same realm as necessary as is belief and repentance.
Keep
searching, my friend. The truth is in the Book.
DAVEH: And I'll be happy
to explain why I believe "the Book"
supports/confirms my belief.
Terry
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Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
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