Ed replied: "Yes, the void is very different from the lattice. That is the whole point to the idea behind the NAE. A nuclear reaction cannot take place in a normal lattice. A change must take place. This change produces a different condition I call the NAE. In my model, this NAE is a gap created by stress relief. Other models imagine a different condition. Regardless of the condition, it MUST contain hydrons because that is what experiences fusion, which is the essential result of cold fusion."
OK, so you are positing that as soon as the dislocation or gap forms, hydrons IMMEDIATELY diffuse into it? Even if the electrode hasn't even been immersed in the electrolyte yet (if we're talking electrolytic type experiments); or before hydrogen gas is introduced if we're dealing with a NiH system? I don't think so. -Mark From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 11:24 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: [Vo]:Of NAEs and nothingness... On May 19, 2013, at 11:55 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote: To which Ed answered, mainly expressing what his view is inside this void: "The answer depends on which theory you accept. In my case, the void consists initially of a strong negative charge created by the electrons in the wall that are associated with the metal atoms making up the wall. The charge is strong because it is now unbalance as a result of the walls being too far apart for the electron orbits (waves) to be properly balanced. This condition attracts hydrons (hydrogen ions), which enter the gap by releasing Gibbs energy. In so doing, they create a tightly bonded covalent structure in the form of a string. The hydrons in this string are closer together than is normally possible because the electron concentration between them is higher than normal. When this structure resonates, the hydrons get even closer together periodically, depending on the frequency of vibration. Each time they get to within a critical distance, energy is emitted from each hydron as a photon. Once enough energy has been emitted as a series of weak photons, the fusion process is completed by the intervening electron being sucked into the final nuclear product. The details of how this process works will be described later." The temperature is very high, but not high enough to melt the surrounding material. As a result, some energy is lost from the gap as phonons. The photon/phonon ratio is still unknown. Nevertheless, the rate of photon emission is large enough to be detected outside of the apparatus when H is used. To which I respond: But if the void is tens of 'atom-diameters' across, you are way beyond the influence of any electrons, unless they are 'free' electrons flying around in that void. Restrict your viewpoint to only the interior of the void. Mark, you are making assumptions that do not need to be made. Regardless of what you imagine might be the case, hydrons MUST assemble because otherwise they can not fuse. The entire process hinges on hydrons assembling in an unconventional way. That requirement is basic. The challenge is to discover how this is possible without violating the laws of thermodynamics. Of course, if you keep making assumptions, the process can either be rejected or justified, your choice. I make the assumptions I think can be justified and try to find where they lead. In my case, they lead to a model that can explain ALL behavior without making additional assumptions. While this might be a wild goose chase, it does provide a useful path, which other theories have not done. *For the sake of argument*, assume that there are NO free atoms, sub-atomic particles or photons flying around in the void. in that case, do you not have a *perfect vacuum*? And as to my second question, what's the temperature of a perfect vacuum? Would it not be 0.00000000000K in temperature? I have no idea how the concept of vacuum applies. The NAE is a chemical state within a material. As H enters the state, they generate Gibbs energy, which is dissipated as heat (phonons). As a result, the region gets hot. The hydrons would not assemble if this energy were not generated, thereby producing heat. That is the basic nature of a chemical process. Ed is positing that the NAE are essential to LENR, and I am positing that the VOIDs are a major element in the NAE, AND that the conditions in the VOIDs are NOT those of the bulk, surrounding matter; in fact, they are very different. To understand the NAE requires an understanding of EXACTLY what the conditions are INSIDE the voids. Yes, the void is very different from the lattice. That is the whole point to the idea behind the NAE. A nuclear reaction cannot take place in a normal lattice. A change must take place. This change produces a different condition I call the NAE. In my model, this NAE is a gap created by stress relief. Other models imagine a different condition. Regardless of the condition, it MUST contain hydrons because that is what experiences fusion, which is the essential result of cold fusion. Ed, perhaps you could summarize what the various viewpoints are as to the physical environment inside these voids. The different theories use various features. Hagelstein uses metal atom vacancies, Miley uses dislocations, Takahashi uses special sites on the surface, and Kim assumes a BEC can form within the lattice. Each of these conditions are used to justify formation of a group of hydrons that fuse by some mysterious process. Other theories (Chubb for example) assume the process can occur whenever the lattice gets fully saturated with hydrons without a cluster being required. Ed Storms -Mark Iverson
