Mark, when the gap initially forms, nothing is present. It is a void,
a space without substance, a vacuum if you wish. However, it contains
strong negative fields and it contains electrons. Does a vacuum
contain electrons? The gap is too small for a gas molecule to enter.
It can accommodate only hydron ions, which when they enter, react with
each other. At this point in the discussion, I'm describing pure
chemical conditions that can be calculated using conventional theory.
Does this answer your question?
Ed Storms
On May 28, 2013, at 3:07 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote:
Ed:
Thanks for the additional explanation, but it wasn’t necessary…
Obviously, there’s a disconnect as to what my point was in this
thread, and how you interpreted it.
I do not take issue with your hypothesis; I follow the reasoning and
steps of how you think LENR occurs. It sounds very straightforward,
and I trust your vast knowledge of the field to have taken all the
empirical data to heart when formulating the hypothesis. I sincerely
hope that you are able to convince some LENR researchers to test
your hypothesis and get some empirical support…
The point of my posting the thread is to understand the precise
environment of these dislocations in the lattice… if they are the
site where LENR processes occur, and I think that is the likely
scenario, then it is *essential* to have an *accurate* understanding
of what constitutes a dislocation. Your contributions to this
thread have certainly described how you view them, however, you did
NOT answer my question as to what is in the voids when nothing has
‘diffused’ into them!!
The purpose for my first set of questions was to simply ascertain
whether or not we have a (perfect?) vacuum on the inside of the
dislocation immediately after it forms and before anything happens
to diffuse into them… I think I prefaced my questions to focus on
that situation. Can we agree that we are dealing with a vacuum, at
least initially?
-Mark Iverson
From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:54 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Cc: Edmund Storms
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Of NAEs and nothingness...
On May 28, 2013, at 1:58 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote:
Ed replied:
“Yes, the void is very different from the lattice. That is the whole
point to the idea behind the NAE. A nuclear reaction cannot take
place in a normal lattice. A change must take place. This change
produces a different condition I call the NAE. In my model, this NAE
is a gap created by stress relief. Other models imagine a different
condition. Regardless of the condition, it MUST contain hydrons
because that is what experiences fusion, which is the essential
result of cold fusion.”
OK, so you are positing that as soon as the dislocation or gap
forms, hydrons IMMEDIATELY diffuse into it? Even if the electrode
hasn’t even been immersed in the electrolyte yet (if we’re talking
electrolytic type experiments); or before hydrogen gas is introduced
if we’re dealing with a NiH system? I don’t think so…
Mark, of course a source of H+ or D+ must be present. Let me make
the process as clear as possible. First a gap forms as a result of
stress relief. Then any hydrons present in the surrounding material
diffuse into the gap and react to form the Hydroton. If no hydrons
are present in the material, nothing happens. Once the Hydroton
forms, this structure starts to oscillate and mass energy is emitted
as photons.
Two essential conditions are required for LENR to occur - (1) a gap
of critical size must form and (2) hydrogen isotopes must dissolve
in the material forming the gap. The gaps can be created first, as
is the case with the Rossi method, or they can be created while
hydrogen loading takes place, which happens during electrolysis. In
the Rossi method, the nickel is reacted with something to form the
gaps. It is then placed in the E-Cat where it is reacted with
hydrogen. Once the hydrogen has entered the Ni metal as a dissolved
ion, it finds a gap and proceeds to make deuterium and heat. The
rate of reaction is determined by how rapidly the H+ can find a gap.
This rate is determined by temperature and concentration of H+ in
the Ni. The concentration is determined by temperature and the
activity of H in the surrounding gas. Because this process has a
positive temperature effect, Rossi must work to limit the effect of
temperature, which he does by controlling temperature using an
external source of energy. Using these variables, the behavior of
the reactor can be modeled very accurately once the the variables
are known. They are not public knowledge at the present time.
Nevertheless, the reported behavior of the e-Cat and the Hot-cat are
totally consistent with this description.
That is my story and I sticking to it.:-)
I hope this is clear.
-Mark
From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 11:24 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Cc: Edmund Storms
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Of NAEs and nothingness...
On May 19, 2013, at 11:55 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote:
To which Ed answered, mainly expressing what his view is inside this
void:
“The answer depends on which theory you accept. In my case, the void
consists initially of a strong negative charge created by the
electrons in the wall that are associated with the metal atoms
making up the wall. The charge is strong because it is now unbalance
as a result of the walls being too far apart for the electron orbits
(waves) to be properly balanced. This condition attracts hydrons
(hydrogen ions), which enter the gap by releasing Gibbs energy. In
so doing, they create a tightly bonded covalent structure in the
form of a string. The hydrons in this string are closer together
than is normally possible because the electron concentration between
them is higher than normal. When this structure resonates, the
hydrons get even closer together periodically, depending on the
frequency of vibration. Each time they get to within a critical
distance, energy is emitted from each hydron as a photon. Once
enough energy has been emitted as a series of weak photons, the
fusion process is completed by the intervening electron being sucked
into the final nuclear product. The details of how this process
works will be described later.”
The temperature is very high, but not high enough to melt the
surrounding material. As a result, some energy is lost from the gap
as phonons. The photon/phonon ratio is still unknown. Nevertheless,
the rate of photon emission is large enough to be detected outside
of the apparatus when H is used.
To which I respond:
But if the void is tens of ‘atom-diameters’ across, you are way
beyond the influence of any electrons, unless they are ‘free’
electrons flying around in that void. Restrict your viewpoint to
only the interior of the void…
The gap size is unknown but sufficient to cause the proposed
process. You only need to agree such a process might be possible in
principle without having to know the exact conditions.
Ed Storms
Mark, you are making assumptions that do not need to be made.
Regardless of what you imagine might be the case, hydrons MUST
assemble because otherwise they can not fuse. The entire process
hinges on hydrons assembling in an unconventional way. That
requirement is basic. The challenge is to discover how this is
possible without violating the laws of thermodynamics. Of course, if
you keep making assumptions, the process can either be rejected or
justified, your choice. I make the assumptions I think can be
justified and try to find where they lead. In my case, they lead to
a model that can explain ALL behavior without making additional
assumptions. While this might be a wild goose chase, it does provide
a useful path, which other theories have not done.
*For the sake of argument*, assume that there are NO free atoms, sub-
atomic particles or photons flying around in the void… in that case,
do you not have a *perfect vacuum*? And as to my second question,
what’s the temperature of a perfect vacuum? Would it not be
0.00000000000K in temperature?
I have no idea how the concept of vacuum applies. The NAE is a
chemical state within a material. As H enters the state, they
generate Gibbs energy, which is dissipated as heat (phonons). As a
result, the region gets hot. The hydrons would not assemble if this
energy were not generated, thereby producing heat. That is the basic
nature of a chemical process.
Ed is positing that the NAE are essential to LENR, and I am positing
that the VOIDs are a major element in the NAE, AND that the
conditions in the VOIDs are NOT those of the bulk, surrounding
matter; in fact, they are very different. To understand the NAE
requires an understanding of EXACTLY what the conditions are INSIDE
the voids.
Yes, the void is very different from the lattice. That is the whole
point to the idea behind the NAE. A nuclear reaction cannot take
place in a normal lattice. A change must take place. This change
produces a different condition I call the NAE. In my model, this NAE
is a gap created by stress relief. Other models imagine a different
condition. Regardless of the condition, it MUST contain hydrons
because that is what experiences fusion, which is the essential
result of cold fusion.
Ed, perhaps you could summarize what the various viewpoints are as
to the physical environment inside these voids.
The different theories use various features. Hagelstein uses metal
atom vacancies, Miley uses dislocations, Takahashi uses special
sites on the surface, and Kim assumes a BEC can form within the
lattice. Each of these conditions are used to justify formation of a
group of hydrons that fuse by some mysterious process. Other
theories (Chubb for example) assume the process can occur whenever
the lattice gets fully saturated with hydrons without a cluster
being required.
Ed Storms
-Mark Iverson