On May 28, 2013, at 1:58 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote:
Ed replied:
“Yes, the void is very different from the lattice. That is the whole
point to the idea behind the NAE. A nuclear reaction cannot take
place in a normal lattice. A change must take place. This change
produces a different condition I call the NAE. In my model, this NAE
is a gap created by stress relief. Other models imagine a different
condition. Regardless of the condition, it MUST contain hydrons
because that is what experiences fusion, which is the essential
result of cold fusion.”
OK, so you are positing that as soon as the dislocation or gap
forms, hydrons IMMEDIATELY diffuse into it? Even if the electrode
hasn’t even been immersed in the electrolyte yet (if we’re talking
electrolytic type experiments); or before hydrogen gas is introduced
if we’re dealing with a NiH system? I don’t think so…
Mark, of course a source of H+ or D+ must be present. Let me make the
process as clear as possible. First a gap forms as a result of stress
relief. Then any hydrons present in the surrounding material diffuse
into the gap and react to form the Hydroton. If no hydrons are present
in the material, nothing happens. Once the Hydroton forms, this
structure starts to oscillate and mass energy is emitted as photons.
Two essential conditions are required for LENR to occur - (1) a gap of
critical size must form and (2) hydrogen isotopes must dissolve in the
material forming the gap. The gaps can be created first, as is the
case with the Rossi method, or they can be created while hydrogen
loading takes place, which happens during electrolysis. In the Rossi
method, the nickel is reacted with something to form the gaps. It is
then placed in the E-Cat where it is reacted with hydrogen. Once the
hydrogen has entered the Ni metal as a dissolved ion, it finds a gap
and proceeds to make deuterium and heat. The rate of reaction is
determined by how rapidly the H+ can find a gap. This rate is
determined by temperature and concentration of H+ in the Ni. The
concentration is determined by temperature and the activity of H in
the surrounding gas. Because this process has a positive temperature
effect, Rossi must work to limit the effect of temperature, which he
does by controlling temperature using an external source of energy.
Using these variables, the behavior of the reactor can be modeled very
accurately once the the variables are known. They are not public
knowledge at the present time. Nevertheless, the reported behavior of
the e-Cat and the Hot-cat are totally consistent with this description.
That is my story and I sticking to it.:-)
I hope this is clear.
-Mark
From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 11:24 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Cc: Edmund Storms
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Of NAEs and nothingness...
On May 19, 2013, at 11:55 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote:
To which Ed answered, mainly expressing what his view is inside this
void:
“The answer depends on which theory you accept. In my case, the void
consists initially of a strong negative charge created by the
electrons in the wall that are associated with the metal atoms
making up the wall. The charge is strong because it is now unbalance
as a result of the walls being too far apart for the electron orbits
(waves) to be properly balanced. This condition attracts hydrons
(hydrogen ions), which enter the gap by releasing Gibbs energy. In
so doing, they create a tightly bonded covalent structure in the
form of a string. The hydrons in this string are closer together
than is normally possible because the electron concentration between
them is higher than normal. When this structure resonates, the
hydrons get even closer together periodically, depending on the
frequency of vibration. Each time they get to within a critical
distance, energy is emitted from each hydron as a photon. Once
enough energy has been emitted as a series of weak photons, the
fusion process is completed by the intervening electron being sucked
into the final nuclear product. The details of how this process
works will be described later.”
The temperature is very high, but not high enough to melt the
surrounding material. As a result, some energy is lost from the gap
as phonons. The photon/phonon ratio is still unknown. Nevertheless,
the rate of photon emission is large enough to be detected outside
of the apparatus when H is used.
To which I respond:
But if the void is tens of ‘atom-diameters’ across, you are way
beyond the influence of any electrons, unless they are ‘free’
electrons flying around in that void. Restrict your viewpoint to
only the interior of the void…
The gap size is unknown but sufficient to cause the proposed process.
You only need to agree such a process might be possible in principle
without having to know the exact conditions.
Ed Storms
Mark, you are making assumptions that do not need to be made.
Regardless of what you imagine might be the case, hydrons MUST
assemble because otherwise they can not fuse. The entire process
hinges on hydrons assembling in an unconventional way. That
requirement is basic. The challenge is to discover how this is
possible without violating the laws of thermodynamics. Of course, if
you keep making assumptions, the process can either be rejected or
justified, your choice. I make the assumptions I think can be
justified and try to find where they lead. In my case, they lead to
a model that can explain ALL behavior without making additional
assumptions. While this might be a wild goose chase, it does provide
a useful path, which other theories have not done.
*For the sake of argument*, assume that there are NO free atoms, sub-
atomic particles or photons flying around in the void… in that case,
do you not have a *perfect vacuum*? And as to my second question,
what’s the temperature of a perfect vacuum? Would it not be
0.00000000000K in temperature?
I have no idea how the concept of vacuum applies. The NAE is a
chemical state within a material. As H enters the state, they
generate Gibbs energy, which is dissipated as heat (phonons). As a
result, the region gets hot. The hydrons would not assemble if this
energy were not generated, thereby producing heat. That is the basic
nature of a chemical process.
Ed is positing that the NAE are essential to LENR, and I am positing
that the VOIDs are a major element in the NAE, AND that the
conditions in the VOIDs are NOT those of the bulk, surrounding
matter; in fact, they are very different. To understand the NAE
requires an understanding of EXACTLY what the conditions are INSIDE
the voids.
Yes, the void is very different from the lattice. That is the whole
point to the idea behind the NAE. A nuclear reaction cannot take
place in a normal lattice. A change must take place. This change
produces a different condition I call the NAE. In my model, this NAE
is a gap created by stress relief. Other models imagine a different
condition. Regardless of the condition, it MUST contain hydrons
because that is what experiences fusion, which is the essential
result of cold fusion.
Ed, perhaps you could summarize what the various viewpoints are as
to the physical environment inside these voids.
The different theories use various features. Hagelstein uses metal
atom vacancies, Miley uses dislocations, Takahashi uses special
sites on the surface, and Kim assumes a BEC can form within the
lattice. Each of these conditions are used to justify formation of a
group of hydrons that fuse by some mysterious process. Other
theories (Chubb for example) assume the process can occur whenever
the lattice gets fully saturated with hydrons without a cluster
being required.
Ed Storms
-Mark Iverson
