*The effect of nano-structures on concentrating energy (aka Axil) is an entirely different phenomenon that has no relationship to LENR according to my model. Axil obviously has a different model.*
That is my story and I sticking to it.:-) On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 8:40 PM, Edmund Storms <stor...@ix.netcom.com>wrote: > Dave, you are adding ideas that have no relationship to what I'm > describing. Conductivity has no relationship to the the gap, its role, or > its lifetime. The gap width is the ONLY variable that determines whether it > will be a NAE. Once the gap has grown too big, it no longer allows > formation of the Hydroton and, instead, normal H2 forms. It can grow too > big if the stress that made the gap in the first place continues to > increase. I suggest this is why most successful production of excess energy > eventually stops. > > The Hydroton acts like a superconductor because the electron is free to > move within the structure because it is not bound to a single nucleus. The > gap itself is not superconducting. > > The effect of nano-structures on concentrating energy (aka Axil) is an > entirely different phenomenon that has no relationship to LENR according to > my model. Axil obviously has a different model. > > Ed Storms > > > > On May 28, 2013, at 6:22 PM, David Roberson wrote: > > I believe that I see what you are describing Ed. This effect must go away > at some size when the metal begins to have conductivity on the inside > surfaces of the cavities. Could this be the mechanism that limits how > large the NAE can become? > > Does anyone know how large a metallic structure has to be before it looks > like a resistor? Perhaps I am stretching it to assume that a structure > which only has a small number of associated atoms behaves like a > superconductor. If not, what mechanism determines the resistive parameter? > > If a small collection of atoms behaves like a superconductor then that > would explain why the field generated by tiny Axil antennas can become of > great magnitude. > > Dave > -----Original Message----- > From: Edmund Storms <stor...@ix.netcom.com> > To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com> > Cc: Edmund Storms <stor...@ix.netcom.com> > Sent: Tue, May 28, 2013 6:16 pm > Subject: Re: [Vo]:Of NAEs and nothingness... > > Mark, you are describing a large container. The gap is not a large > container. It consists of two surfaces with a gap that is on the atomic > scale. > > Start by imagining what a lattice consist of. It is created by a regular > arrangement of electron shells, each surrounding a nucleus. These atoms are > at a distance determined by a symmetrical electron interaction between each > neighbor . Now move the atoms apart along a line. Immediately, the electron > cloud surrounding each atom in the wall is unbalanced. The electron cloud > of each atom pushed into the gap. This same effect happens on a clean > surface and accounts for the surface energy that attracts absorbed atoms. > > Is this clearer? > > Ed Storms > On May 28, 2013, at 3:53 PM, David Roberson wrote: > > Ed, I recall the Van de Graaff generators which had a vacuum or just air > inside and a conductive outside. One of the demonstrations that I saw was > that there is no electric field within the shielding outer surface. Why > does this not happen within the NAE? It looks a lot like one of those > devices since a metallic conductor surrounds the cavity. Am I missing > something about the shape? > > Dave > -----Original Message----- > From: Edmund Storms <stor...@ix.netcom.com> > To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com> > Cc: Edmund Storms <stor...@ix.netcom.com> > Sent: Tue, May 28, 2013 5:38 pm > Subject: Re: [Vo]:Of NAEs and nothingness... > > Mark, when the gap initially forms, nothing is present. It is a void, a > space without substance, a vacuum if you wish. However, it contains strong > negative fields and it contains electrons. Does a vacuum contain electrons? > The gap is too small for a gas molecule to enter. It can accommodate only > hydron ions, which when they enter, react with each other. At this point > in the discussion, I'm describing pure chemical conditions that can be > calculated using conventional theory. Does this answer your question? > > Ed Storms > > > On May 28, 2013, at 3:07 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote: > > Ed: > Thanks for the additional explanation, but it wasn’t necessary… > Obviously, there’s a disconnect as to what my point was in this thread, > and how you interpreted it. > > I do not take issue with your hypothesis; I follow the reasoning and steps > of how you think LENR occurs. It sounds very straightforward, and I trust > your vast knowledge of the field to have taken all the empirical data to > heart when formulating the hypothesis. I sincerely hope that you are able > to convince some LENR researchers to test your hypothesis and get some > empirical support… > > The point of my posting the thread is to understand the precise > environment of these dislocations in the lattice… if they are the site > where LENR processes occur, and I think that is the likely scenario, then > it is **essential** to have an **accurate** understanding of what > constitutes a dislocation. Your contributions to this thread have > certainly described how you view them, however, you did NOT answer my > question as to what is in the voids when nothing has ‘diffused’ into them!! > > The purpose for my first set of questions was to simply ascertain whether > or not we have a (perfect?) vacuum on the inside of the dislocation > immediately after it forms and before anything happens to diffuse into > them… I think I prefaced my questions to focus on that situation. Can we > agree that we are dealing with a vacuum, at least initially? > > -Mark Iverson > > *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com<stor...@ix.netcom.com> > ] > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:54 AM > *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com > *Cc:* Edmund Storms > *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Of NAEs and nothingness... > > > On May 28, 2013, at 1:58 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote: > > > Ed replied: > “Yes, the void is very different from the lattice. That is the whole > point to the idea behind the NAE. A nuclear reaction cannot take place in a > normal lattice. A change must take place. This change produces a different > condition I call the NAE. In my model, this NAE is a gap created by stress > relief. Other models imagine a different condition. Regardless of the > condition, it MUST contain hydrons because that is what experiences fusion, > which is the essential result of cold fusion.” > > OK, so you are positing that as soon as the dislocation or gap forms, > hydrons IMMEDIATELY diffuse into it? Even if the electrode hasn’t even > been immersed in the electrolyte yet (if we’re talking electrolytic type > experiments); or before hydrogen gas is introduced if we’re dealing with a > NiH system? I don’t think so… > > Mark, of course a source of H+ or D+ must be present. Let me make the > process as clear as possible. First a gap forms as a result of stress > relief. Then any hydrons present in the surrounding material diffuse into > the gap and react to form the Hydroton. If no hydrons are present in the > material, nothing happens. Once the Hydroton forms, this structure starts > to oscillate and mass energy is emitted as photons. > > Two essential conditions are required for LENR to occur - (1) a gap of > critical size must form and (2) hydrogen isotopes must dissolve in the > material forming the gap. The gaps can be created first, as is the case > with the Rossi method, or they can be created while hydrogen loading takes > place, which happens during electrolysis. In the Rossi method, the nickel > is reacted with something to form the gaps. It is then placed in the E-Cat > where it is reacted with hydrogen. Once the hydrogen has entered the Ni > metal as a dissolved ion, it finds a gap and proceeds to make deuterium and > heat. The rate of reaction is determined by how rapidly the H+ can find a > gap. This rate is determined by temperature and concentration of H+ in the > Ni. The concentration is determined by temperature and the activity of H in > the surrounding gas. Because this process has a positive temperature > effect, Rossi must work to limit the effect of temperature, which he does > by controlling temperature using an external source of energy. Using these > variables, the behavior of the reactor can be modeled very accurately once > the the variables are known. They are not public knowledge at the present > time. Nevertheless, the reported behavior of the e-Cat and the Hot-cat are > totally consistent with this description. > > That is my story and I sticking to it.:-) > > I hope this is clear. > > > > -Mark > > *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com<stor...@ix.netcom.com> > ] > *Sent:* Sunday, May 19, 2013 11:24 AM > *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com > *Cc:* Edmund Storms > *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Of NAEs and nothingness... > > > On May 19, 2013, at 11:55 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote: > > > To which Ed answered, mainly expressing what his view is inside this > void: > * * > *“The answer depends on which theory you accept. In my case, the void > consists initially of a strong negative charge created by the electrons in > the wall that are associated with the metal atoms making up the wall. The > charge is strong because it is now unbalance as a result of the walls being > too far apart for the electron orbits (waves) to be properly balanced. > This condition attracts hydrons (hydrogen ions), which enter the gap by > releasing Gibbs energy. In so doing, they create a tightly bonded covalent > structure in the form of a string. The hydrons in this string are closer > together than is normally possible because the electron concentration > between them is higher than normal. When this structure resonates, the > hydrons get even closer together periodically, depending on the frequency > of vibration. Each time they get to within a critical distance, energy is > emitted from each hydron as a photon. Once enough energy has been emitted > as a series of weak photons, the fusion process is completed by the > intervening electron being sucked into the final nuclear product. The > details of how this process works will be described later.”* > > *The temperature is very high, but not high enough to melt the > surrounding material. As a result, some energy is lost from the gap as > phonons. The photon/phonon ratio is still unknown. Nevertheless, the rate > of photon emission is large enough to be detected outside of the apparatus > when H is used.* > > To which I respond: > But if the void is tens of ‘atom-diameters’ across, you are way beyond > the influence of any electrons, unless they are ‘free’ electrons flying > around in that void. Restrict your viewpoint to only the interior of the > void… > > > The gap size is unknown but sufficient to cause the proposed process. > You only need to agree such a process might be possible in principle > without having to know the exact conditions. > > Ed Storms > > > Mark, you are making assumptions that do not need to be made. > Regardless of what you imagine might be the case, hydrons MUST assemble > because otherwise they can not fuse. The entire process hinges on hydrons > assembling in an unconventional way. That requirement is basic. The > challenge is to discover how this is possible without violating the laws of > thermodynamics. Of course, if you keep making assumptions, the process can > either be rejected or justified, your choice. I make the assumptions I > think can be justified and try to find where they lead. In my case, they > lead to a model that can explain ALL behavior without making additional > assumptions. While this might be a wild goose chase, it does provide a > useful path, which other theories have not done. > > > > **For the sake of argument**, assume that there are NO free atoms, > sub-atomic particles or photons flying around in the void… in that case, do > you not have a **perfect vacuum**? And as to my second question, what’s > the temperature of a perfect vacuum? Would it not be 0.00000000000K in > temperature? > > I have no idea how the concept of vacuum applies. The NAE is a chemical > state within a material. As H enters the state, they generate Gibbs energy, > which is dissipated as heat (phonons). As a result, the region gets hot. > The hydrons would not assemble if this energy were not generated, thereby > producing heat. That is the basic nature of a chemical process. > > > > Ed is positing that the NAE are essential to LENR, and I am positing > that the VOIDs are a major element in the NAE, AND that the conditions in > the VOIDs are NOT those of the bulk, surrounding matter; in fact, they are > very different. To understand the NAE requires an understanding of EXACTLY > what the conditions are INSIDE the voids. > > Yes, the void is very different from the lattice. That is the whole > point to the idea behind the NAE. A nuclear reaction cannot take place in a > normal lattice. A change must take place. This change produces a different > condition I call the NAE. In my model, this NAE is a gap created by stress > relief. Other models imagine a different condition. Regardless of the > condition, it MUST contain hydrons because that is what experiences fusion, > which is the essential result of cold fusion. > > > > Ed, perhaps you could summarize what the various viewpoints are as to > the physical environment inside these voids. > > The different theories use various features. Hagelstein uses metal atom > vacancies, Miley uses dislocations, Takahashi uses special sites on the > surface, and Kim assumes a BEC can form within the lattice. Each of these > conditions are used to justify formation of a group of hydrons that fuse by > some mysterious process. Other theories (Chubb for example) assume the > process can occur whenever the lattice gets fully saturated with hydrons > without a cluster being required. > > Ed Storms > > > > -Mark Iverson > > > > > > > >
