Re: [digitalradio] ALE 400: Ready for next stage ?
Andy, We can do all this in Multipsk, right? No need for PCALE etal? 73... Jon W1MNK On 5/22/2010 8:34 AM, Andy obrien wrote: With dozens of NEW ALE 400 operators in the past week since K2MO's QST article, I wonder if the new ALE 400 enthusiasGs are now ready for the next logical stage in ALE 400 sue... SCANNING and LINKING. Using ALE as it was intended , over multiple channels . I've been down this road before and had perhaps just 2-3 hams try to find me while I was scanning. Any ideas for building on Tony's article and developing an ALE 400 Network similar to standard ALE networks but without 2.7 Khz wide signals and unattended soundings ? How about a 3-band network to start 80,30, 20 ? Andy K3GK
Re: [digitalradio] ALE 400: Ready for next stage ?
Yes. On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 8:49 PM, Jon Maguire w1...@tampabay.rr.com wrote: Andy, We can do all this in Multipsk, right? No need for PCALE etal? 73... Jon W1MNK On 5/22/2010 8:34 AM, Andy obrien wrote: With dozens of NEW ALE 400 operators in the past week since K2MO's QST article, I wonder if the new ALE 400 enthusiasGs are now ready for the next logical stage in ALE 400 sue... SCANNING and LINKING. Using ALE as it was intended , over multiple channels . I've been down this road before and had perhaps just 2-3 hams try to find me while I was scanning. Any ideas for building on Tony's article and developing an ALE 400 Network similar to standard ALE networks but without 2.7 Khz wide signals and unattended soundings ? How about a 3-band network to start 80,30, 20 ? Andy K3GK
[digitalradio] ALE 400: Ready for next stage ?
With dozens of NEW ALE 400 operators in the past week since K2MO's QST article, I wonder if the new ALE 400 enthusiasGs are now ready for the next logical stage in ALE 400 sue... SCANNING and LINKING. Using ALE as it was intended , over multiple channels . I've been down this road before and had perhaps just 2-3 hams try to find me while I was scanning. Any ideas for building on Tony's article and developing an ALE 400 Network similar to standard ALE networks but without 2.7 Khz wide signals and unattended soundings ? How about a 3-band network to start 80,30, 20 ? Andy K3GK
Re: [digitalradio] ALE 400
Patrick , Thanks for info. Still in the infancy stage of learning Ale 400 and MultiPsk. Any and all help is appreciated. Been printing the manual download for Ale. Articles, web sites etc. A question. Do you use the Beacon Set up they mention? I read it again last night and thought it was quite interesting. again thank you, 73 Hal Stang WD4MDA - Original Message - From: H Stang To: H Stang WD4MDA Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 11:44 AM Subject: Fw: [digitalradio] ALE 400 - Original Message - From: Patrick Lindecker To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE 400 Hello Stang, where I type, it sends. You have an option to send only when you type the Enter key (to fix errors for example). Also in QSB there appears to be a constant resending of the typed material till it gets it correct. not sure but it seems that way. Yes this is normal. Moreover, after a fix number of retries, it is sent a RS ID to try to automatically re-tune (i.e resynchronise in time and frequency) the transmissions (the RS ID being more sensitive than ALE400). If the QSB is too long (more than 90 sec or 15 NAK), it is operated an automatic disconnection. 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: H Stang To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 9:42 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE 400 Chuck, I saw your email and went to 14074 but didn't hear or see you. Band was ruff. just finished two ALE 400 QSO's with KEIAF AND WB2LMV. QSB aplenty. I am in the same mode of trying to figure it out. It is getting a little easir.. I have made 5 ALE400 contacts in the last two days. I may have to adjust my screen colors (Multipsk) where I type, it sends. If that can be done. They are both red, and it has been confusing me. Also in QSB there appears to be a constant resending of the typed material till it gets it correct. not sure but it seems that way. WB2MLV made a comment about that. So more study. Good luck. Hal Stang WD4MDA Hellschrieber #: FD 2599 wd4...@comcast.net Jacksonville FL - Original Message - From: ac5pw10 To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 1:56 PM Subject: [digitalradio] ALE 400 Is anybody on to tinker with ALE400?? It's 1751Z I'm monitoring 14074.00 and will monitor most of the rest of the day. I'm still trying to figure it out so please bear with me till then. 73, Chuck AC5PW -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2881 - Release Date: 05/18/10 02:26:00 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2883 - Release Date: 05/19/10 02:26:00
Re: [digitalradio] ALE 400
Hello Hal, For details about beacon: http://f6cte.free.fr/The_ARQ_FAE_beacon_easy_with_Multipsk.doc 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: Hal Stang To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 6:45 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE 400 Patrick , Thanks for info. Still in the infancy stage of learning Ale 400 and MultiPsk. Any and all help is appreciated. Been printing the manual download for Ale. Articles, web sites etc. A question. Do you use the Beacon Set up they mention? I read it again last night and thought it was quite interesting. again thank you, 73 Hal Stang WD4MDA - Original Message - From: H Stang To: H Stang WD4MDA Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 11:44 AM Subject: Fw: [digitalradio] ALE 400 - Original Message - From: Patrick Lindecker To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE 400 Hello Stang, where I type, it sends. You have an option to send only when you type the Enter key (to fix errors for example). Also in QSB there appears to be a constant resending of the typed material till it gets it correct. not sure but it seems that way. Yes this is normal. Moreover, after a fix number of retries, it is sent a RS ID to try to automatically re-tune (i.e resynchronise in time and frequency) the transmissions (the RS ID being more sensitive than ALE400). If the QSB is too long (more than 90 sec or 15 NAK), it is operated an automatic disconnection. 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: H Stang To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 9:42 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE 400 Chuck, I saw your email and went to 14074 but didn't hear or see you. Band was ruff. just finished two ALE 400 QSO's with KEIAF AND WB2LMV. QSB aplenty. I am in the same mode of trying to figure it out. It is getting a little easir.. I have made 5 ALE400 contacts in the last two days. I may have to adjust my screen colors (Multipsk) where I type, it sends. If that can be done. They are both red, and it has been confusing me. Also in QSB there appears to be a constant resending of the typed material till it gets it correct. not sure but it seems that way. WB2MLV made a comment about that. So more study. Good luck. Hal Stang WD4MDA Hellschrieber #: FD 2599 wd4...@comcast.net Jacksonville FL - Original Message - From: ac5pw10 To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 1:56 PM Subject: [digitalradio] ALE 400 Is anybody on to tinker with ALE400?? It's 1751Z I'm monitoring 14074.00 and will monitor most of the rest of the day. I'm still trying to figure it out so please bear with me till then. 73, Chuck AC5PW No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2881 - Release Date: 05/18/10 02:26:00 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2883 - Release Date: 05/19/10 02:26:00
Re: [digitalradio] ALE 400
Thank you Patrick ! In fact my first two ALE400 QSOs are already done last night, even without reading the papers :). Both of them with canadian stations. BTW I have been active on many of the digital modes and this one seems to be a new experience :). Thank you for the soft and for the help ! Best 73's ! De Nick - LZ1ZM - Original Message - From: Patrick Lindecker f6...@free.fr To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 3:23 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE 400 Hello Nick, Look at this paper: http://f6cte.free.fr/ALE_and_ALE400_easy_with_Multipsk.doc 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: Nikola Nikolov nniko...@maxcom-bg.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com; Andy obrien k3uka...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 6:08 AM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE 400 What about those having not access to QST and still wishing to try out ALE 400 ? Best 73's! De Nick - LZ1ZM On Wed, 19 May 2010 04:15:39 +0300, Andy obrien k3uka...@gmail.com wrote: June QST On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 9:07 PM, wb4...@teara.org wb4...@teara.org wrote: At 05:56 PM 5/18/2010 -, you wrote: Is anybody on to tinker with ALE400?? It's 1751Z I'm monitoring 14074.00 and will monitor most of the rest of the day. I'm still trying to figure it out so please bear with me till then. 73, Chuck AC5PW I know this is probably an old question... but is there somewhere I can go to read about ALE400 and get started without too much complexity? I use several other digital modes, but I don't know anything about ALE400. Thanks Dave WB4IUY www.WB4IUY.net http://www.wb4iuy.net/ -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ http://www.obriensweb.com/digispotter.html Chat, Skeds, and spots all in one (resize to suit)Yahoo! Groups Links http://www.obriensweb.com/digispotter.html Chat, Skeds, and spots all in one (resize to suit)Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2883 - Release Date: 05/19/10 02:26:00 http://www.obriensweb.com/digispotter.html Chat, Skeds, and spots all in one (resize to suit)Yahoo! Groups Links -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ http://www.obriensweb.com/digispotter.html Chat, Skeds, and spots all in one (resize to suit)Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: digitalradio-dig...@yahoogroups.com digitalradio-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: digitalradio-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [digitalradio] ALE 400
Hello Stang, where I type, it sends. You have an option to send only when you type the Enter key (to fix errors for example). Also in QSB there appears to be a constant resending of the typed material till it gets it correct. not sure but it seems that way. Yes this is normal. Moreover, after a fix number of retries, it is sent a RS ID to try to automatically re-tune (i.e resynchronise in time and frequency) the transmissions (the RS ID being more sensitive than ALE400). If the QSB is too long (more than 90 sec or 15 NAK), it is operated an automatic disconnection. 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: H Stang To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 9:42 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE 400 Chuck, I saw your email and went to 14074 but didn't hear or see you. Band was ruff. just finished two ALE 400 QSO's with KEIAF AND WB2LMV. QSB aplenty. I am in the same mode of trying to figure it out. It is getting a little easir.. I have made 5 ALE400 contacts in the last two days. I may have to adjust my screen colors (Multipsk) where I type, it sends. If that can be done. They are both red, and it has been confusing me. Also in QSB there appears to be a constant resending of the typed material till it gets it correct. not sure but it seems that way. WB2MLV made a comment about that. So more study. Good luck. Hal Stang WD4MDA Hellschrieber #: FD 2599 wd4...@comcast.net Jacksonville FL - Original Message - From: ac5pw10 To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 1:56 PM Subject: [digitalradio] ALE 400 Is anybody on to tinker with ALE400?? It's 1751Z I'm monitoring 14074.00 and will monitor most of the rest of the day. I'm still trying to figure it out so please bear with me till then. 73, Chuck AC5PW No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2881 - Release Date: 05/18/10 02:26:00
Re: [digitalradio] ALE 400
Hello Nick, Look at this paper: http://f6cte.free.fr/ALE_and_ALE400_easy_with_Multipsk.doc 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: Nikola Nikolov nniko...@maxcom-bg.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com; Andy obrien k3uka...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 6:08 AM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE 400 What about those having not access to QST and still wishing to try out ALE 400 ? Best 73's! De Nick - LZ1ZM On Wed, 19 May 2010 04:15:39 +0300, Andy obrien k3uka...@gmail.com wrote: June QST On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 9:07 PM, wb4...@teara.org wb4...@teara.org wrote: At 05:56 PM 5/18/2010 -, you wrote: Is anybody on to tinker with ALE400?? It's 1751Z I'm monitoring 14074.00 and will monitor most of the rest of the day. I'm still trying to figure it out so please bear with me till then. 73, Chuck AC5PW I know this is probably an old question... but is there somewhere I can go to read about ALE400 and get started without too much complexity? I use several other digital modes, but I don't know anything about ALE400. Thanks Dave WB4IUY www.WB4IUY.net http://www.wb4iuy.net/ -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ http://www.obriensweb.com/digispotter.html Chat, Skeds, and spots all in one (resize to suit)Yahoo! Groups Links http://www.obriensweb.com/digispotter.html Chat, Skeds, and spots all in one (resize to suit)Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: digitalradio-dig...@yahoogroups.com digitalradio-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: digitalradio-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[digitalradio] ALE 400
Is anybody on to tinker with ALE400?? It's 1751Z I'm monitoring 14074.00 and will monitor most of the rest of the day. I'm still trying to figure it out so please bear with me till then. 73, Chuck AC5PW
Re: [digitalradio] ALE 400
Chuck, I saw your email and went to 14074 but didn't hear or see you. Band was ruff. just finished two ALE 400 QSO's with KEIAF AND WB2LMV. QSB aplenty. I am in the same mode of trying to figure it out. It is getting a little easir.. I have made 5 ALE400 contacts in the last two days. I may have to adjust my screen colors (Multipsk) where I type, it sends. If that can be done. They are both red, and it has been confusing me. Also in QSB there appears to be a constant resending of the typed material till it gets it correct. not sure but it seems that way. WB2MLV made a comment about that. So more study. Good luck. Hal Stang WD4MDA Hellschrieber #: FD 2599 wd4...@comcast.net Jacksonville FL - Original Message - From: ac5pw10 To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 1:56 PM Subject: [digitalradio] ALE 400 Is anybody on to tinker with ALE400?? It's 1751Z I'm monitoring 14074.00 and will monitor most of the rest of the day. I'm still trying to figure it out so please bear with me till then. 73, Chuck AC5PW -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2881 - Release Date: 05/18/10 02:26:00
Re: [digitalradio] ALE 400
I was wondering what that noise was. Guess the pactor did not bother you.
Re: [digitalradio] ALE 400
We may be border line to close to each other for 20 meters. 73, Chuck AC5PW Once a Marine... ...Always a Marine OOORAHHH ! Saepe Expertus - Semper Fidelis - Fratres Aeterni Often Tested - Always Faithful - Brothers Forever From: H Stang wd4...@comcast.net To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, May 18, 2010 2:42:37 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE 400 Chuck, I saw your email and went to 14074 but didn't hear or see you. Band was ruff. just finished two ALE 400 QSO's with KEIAF AND WB2LMV. QSB aplenty. I am in the same mode of trying to figure it out. It is getting a little easir.. I have made 5 ALE400 contacts in the last two days. I may have to adjust my screen colors (Multipsk) where I type, it sends. If that can be done. They are both red, and it has been confusing me. Also in QSB there appears to be a constant resending of the typed material till it gets it correct. not sure but it seems that way. WB2MLV made a comment about that. So more study. Good luck. Hal Stang WD4MDA Hellschrieber #: FD 2599 wd4...@comcast. net Jacksonville FL - Original Message - From: ac5pw10 To: digitalradio@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 1:56 PM Subject: [digitalradio] ALE 400 Is anybody on to tinker with ALE400?? It's 1751Z I'm monitoring 14074.00 and will monitor most of the rest of the day. I'm still trying to figure it out so please bear with me till then. 73, Chuck AC5PW No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2881 - Release Date: 05/18/10 02:26:00
Re: [digitalradio] ALE 400
I didn't hear any John, I want to apologize if I interfered with you... 73, Chuck AC5PW Once a Marine... ...Always a Marine OOORAHHH ! Saepe Expertus - Semper Fidelis - Fratres Aeterni Often Tested - Always Faithful - Brothers Forever From: John Becker, WØJAB w0...@big-river.net To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, May 18, 2010 3:56:41 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE 400 I was wondering what that noise was. Guess the pactor did not bother you.
Re: [digitalradio] ALE 400
At 05:56 PM 5/18/2010 -, you wrote: Is anybody on to tinker with ALE400?? It's 1751Z I'm monitoring 14074.00 and will monitor most of the rest of the day. I'm still trying to figure it out so please bear with me till then. 73, Chuck AC5PW I know this is probably an old question... but is there somewhere I can go to read about ALE400 and get started without too much complexity? I use several other digital modes, but I don't know anything about ALE400. Thanks Dave WB4IUY www.WB4IUY.net
Re: [digitalradio] ALE 400
June QST On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 9:07 PM, wb4...@teara.org wb4...@teara.org wrote: At 05:56 PM 5/18/2010 -, you wrote: Is anybody on to tinker with ALE400?? It's 1751Z I'm monitoring 14074.00 and will monitor most of the rest of the day. I'm still trying to figure it out so please bear with me till then. 73, Chuck AC5PW I know this is probably an old question... but is there somewhere I can go to read about ALE400 and get started without too much complexity? I use several other digital modes, but I don't know anything about ALE400. Thanks Dave WB4IUY www.WB4IUY.net http://www.wb4iuy.net/
Re: [digitalradio] ALE 400
What about those having not access to QST and still wishing to try out ALE 400 ? Best 73's! De Nick - LZ1ZM On Wed, 19 May 2010 04:15:39 +0300, Andy obrien k3uka...@gmail.com wrote: June QST On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 9:07 PM, wb4...@teara.org wb4...@teara.org wrote: At 05:56 PM 5/18/2010 -, you wrote: Is anybody on to tinker with ALE400?? It's 1751Z I'm monitoring 14074.00 and will monitor most of the rest of the day. I'm still trying to figure it out so please bear with me till then. 73, Chuck AC5PW I know this is probably an old question... but is there somewhere I can go to read about ALE400 and get started without too much complexity? I use several other digital modes, but I don't know anything about ALE400. Thanks Dave WB4IUY www.WB4IUY.net http://www.wb4iuy.net/ -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ http://www.obriensweb.com/digispotter.html Chat, Skeds, and spots all in one (resize to suit)Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: digitalradio-dig...@yahoogroups.com digitalradio-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: digitalradio-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[digitalradio] ALE 400 : 8 watts from a Hamstick
Not bad, Colorado to New York with SF 69 and K Index 2. CQ DE K6CIA [FAE CQ] CQ DE K6CIA [FAE CQ] CQ DE K6CIA [FAE CQ] [Connection done with K6CIA] hello and thanks for call...name Jim and qth Pueblo, Colorado...very nice day here, and ur pretty strong...i have some intermittent noise, but it just slows things a little...running about 8 watts here to a hamstick - i'm in an apartment...well, the hamstick is at 100 feet :) ...you're back - did the band drop out? rr, pretty awesome...hope to use this mode for my weekly sked...didn't get the name there - maybe cuz this is only my third contact with this mode...ok Andy, thanks and nice to meet u...yes, i was not too surprised to see this strange mode after the June issue came out :) ...ok Andy, 73 and will look for you...73 for now...sk sk [End of connection with K6CIA] [14,073.00] [End of TX] End of QSO message I was running about 50 watts in to a vertical Andy K3UK
[digitalradio] ALE-400 Chat Mode Skeds pse
All, I'll be QRV ALE-400 CHAT MODE this evening. 14074.0 / 3586.0 +/- QRM. Please send email direct for skeds. Thanks, Tony -K2MO
[digitalradio] ALE-400 - Keyboard mode / ALE
All, I've been advocating the use of ALE-400 ARQ FAE as a keyboard chat mode and it seems that some may be unaware of the modes additional features. Aside from keyboard chat, ALE-400 can be configured to automatically respond to connect requests, messaging, and LQA (Link Quality Analysis) reports the same as standard ALE. If the ALE-400 program is left running unattended with the automated response features engaged, there's the potential for others to activate your station causing unintended QRM. You may find someone left you a mail message when you came back from getting that cup of coffee as well as a couple of unhappy RTTY operators who thought you were intentially calling over them. If you're going to use ALE-400 as a keyboard mode, and roam the band like Olivia, RTTY and Hell mode operators, make sure the QRZ / HFL buttons located in AUX FUNCTIONS window are not pushed in. Do not leave the ANSWER button pushed in if the station is left unattended with the software running. If you find someone calling CQ and you'd like to respond, make sure the ARQ FAE buttons are activated and manually click the ANSWER button in the main window. The mode will then connect automatically. Once connected, type in the outgoing text window as you would with any mode; with ALE-400 there's no need to wait for the other station to stop typing; both can type at the same time. When configured as a chat mode, it's pretty much the same as operating Olivia, PSK31 and others. The advantage of ALE-400 ARQ is the error-free throughput. Just FYI. Tony -K2MO
[digitalradio] ALE-400 Skeds
All, I'll be QRV ALE-400 in the evenings on 20 meters. My station will not be left unattended so please see Andy's sked page for activity. Skeds welcome via email @ d...@otponline.net QRG - 14106.0 USB DIAL Testing - ALE-400 sounding / connects / chat mode QSO / mail transfers. Sked Page - http://www.obriensweb.com/sked/ Tony -K2MO
RE: [digitalradio] ALE-400 Skeds
tried just now (2200UTC) nothing yet. Ve5EOC and VE5MU both listening John VE5MU From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 3:41 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] ALE-400 Skeds All, I'll be QRV ALE-400 in the evenings on 20 meters. My station will not be left unattended so please see Andy's sked page for activity. Skeds welcome via email @ mailto:d...@otponline.net d...@otponline.net QRG - 14106.0 USB DIAL Testing - ALE-400 sounding / connects / chat mode QSO / mail transfers. Sked Page - http://www.obriensweb.com/sked/ http://www.obriensweb.com/sked/ Tony -K2MO
Re: [digitalradio] ALE-400 Skeds
I will be attempting to set up Email via ALE400 tonight. Andy K3UK On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 5:53 PM, John Bradley jbrad...@sasktel.net wrote: tried just now (2200UTC) nothing yet. Ve5EOC and VE5MU both listening John VE5MU *From:* digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Tony *Sent:* Wednesday, September 30, 2009 3:41 PM *To:* digitalradio@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* [digitalradio] ALE-400 Skeds All, I'll be QRV ALE-400 in the evenings on 20 meters. My station will not be left unattended so please see Andy's sked page for activity. Skeds welcome via email @ d...@otponline.net QRG - 14106.0 USB DIAL Testing - ALE-400 sounding / connects / chat mode QSO / mail transfers. Sked Page - http://www.obriensweb.com/sked/ Tony -K2MO -- Andy
Re: [digitalradio] ALE-400 Skeds
Andy, Long chat with Jose (CO2JA) on ALE-400 this evening. He was running his 10 watt Manpack rig and G5RV. Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: Andrew O'Brien andrewob...@gmail.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 6:49 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE-400 Skeds I will be attempting to set up Email via ALE400 tonight. Andy K3UK On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 5:53 PM, John Bradley jbrad...@sasktel.net wrote: tried just now (2200UTC) nothing yet. Ve5EOC and VE5MU both listening John VE5MU *From:* digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Tony *Sent:* Wednesday, September 30, 2009 3:41 PM *To:* digitalradio@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* [digitalradio] ALE-400 Skeds All, I'll be QRV ALE-400 in the evenings on 20 meters. My station will not be left unattended so please see Andy's sked page for activity. Skeds welcome via email @ d...@otponline.net QRG - 14106.0 USB DIAL Testing - ALE-400 sounding / connects / chat mode QSO / mail transfers. Sked Page - http://www.obriensweb.com/sked/ Tony -K2MO -- Andy
RE: [digitalradio] ALE-400 Skeds
Had a long chat with Tony, doing some interesting tests. Could hear (barely) Jose . wanted to work him but maybe next time Jose, John VE5MU From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 6:33 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE-400 Skeds Andy, Long chat with Jose (CO2JA) on ALE-400 this evening. He was running his 10 watt Manpack rig and G5RV. Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: Andrew O'Brien mailto:andrewob...@gmail.com andrewob...@gmail.com To: mailto:digitalradio@yahoogroups.com digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 6:49 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE-400 Skeds I will be attempting to set up Email via ALE400 tonight. Andy K3UK On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 5:53 PM, John Bradley mailto:jbrad...@sasktel.net jbrad...@sasktel.net wrote: tried just now (2200UTC) nothing yet. Ve5EOC and VE5MU both listening John VE5MU *From:* mailto:digitalradio@yahoogroups.com digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Tony *Sent:* Wednesday, September 30, 2009 3:41 PM *To:* mailto:digitalradio@yahoogroups.com digitalradio@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* [digitalradio] ALE-400 Skeds All, I'll be QRV ALE-400 in the evenings on 20 meters. My station will not be left unattended so please see Andy's sked page for activity. Skeds welcome via email @ mailto:d...@otponline.net d...@otponline.net QRG - 14106.0 USB DIAL Testing - ALE-400 sounding / connects / chat mode QSO / mail transfers. Sked Page - http://www.obriensweb.com/sked/ http://www.obriensweb.com/sked/ Tony -K2MO -- Andy
[digitalradio] ALE-400 Testing Resumes
All, I'll be QRV ALE-400 each evening for the rest of this week starting tonight. My station will not be left unattended so please see Andy's sked page for activity. Skeds welcome @ d...@otponline.net QRG - 14106.0 USB Testing - ALE-400 sounding / connects / chat mode QSO / mail transfers etc. Sked Page - http://www.obriensweb.com/sked/ Tony -K2MO
[digitalradio] ALE-400 Skeds Pse
All, Anyone care to chat on ALE-400? I'll be on 20 meters this evening. Skeds welcome Tony -K2MO
Re: [digitalradio] ALE-400 Skeds Pse
QRV ALE-400 - 14074.0 Tony - K2MO - Original Message - From: Tony d...@optonline.net To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:31 PM Subject: [digitalradio] ALE-400 Skeds Pse All, Anyone care to chat on ALE-400? I'll be on 20 meters this evening. Skeds welcome Tony -K2MO
[digitalradio] ALE-400 QSO WID OH7JJT
All, Had a nice ALE-400 QSO with OH7JJT today at 17:00z on 20 meters. He mentioned that there are other OH stations active on this mode and that they work regularly on 80 meters. Tom, WB2YDS was able to connect to OH7JJT as well running 5 watts to a vertical. This is one ARQ chat mode that seems to have a lot of potential. Seems to be gaining popularity. Tony -K2MO
[digitalradio] ALE 400 Digital sked page
Just wondered why there are so few spots on Andy's sked page recently? http://www.obriensweb.com/sked/ also I am QRV on 14074 with RS-ID and CALL ID monitoring. 73 Sholto K7TMG
[digitalradio] ALE-400 in Qso with VE5MU
All, In Qso with VE5MU ALE-400 / 14074.0. Time is 23:30z. I'll be here all evening. Tony -K2MO
[digitalradio] ALE-400 - New Version Works FB
All, Patrick made a few changes with ALE-400 and the latest version seems to be working fine. The test version ran smoothly during my QSO with K0PFX (thanks Mel). 73, Tony -K2MO
[digitalradio] ALE-400 QSO Basics
All, Multipsk / ALE-400 ARQ QSO Basics... Connecting: 1. Switch to ALE-400 mode in the main window. 2. Click ARQ FAE button 3. Click AUX FUNCTIONS - Aux Functions window will appear. 4. Enter the stations call sign in the SELECTIVE CALL ARQ FAE box. 5. Click the CALL button. Answering: 1. Click ARQ FAE button in the main window. 2. Click ANSWER (make sure ARQ FAE button is activated). Multipsk will indicate the connection once the link is established. Type away and the text will go out automatically - no need to click Tx/Rx buttons. Click END to disconnect. Sending a file: 1. Click AUX FUNCTIONS then FILE TO SEND. 2. Check ATTACHED FILE box. 3. Click SEND MAIL + FILE. Keep the files small! Multipsk will show the estimated transfer time / progress in the Aux Functions box. BTW... The Reed Solomon identifiers in Multipsk are a great feature. The RSID sends mode ID before each transmission and the receiving station will automatically switch to that mode providing the RX ID is activated. The CALL ID is another neat feature -- sends a small text window inside the waterfall that shows the stations grid, power antenna gain etc. Have fun... Tony -K2MO
[digitalradio] ALE-400 QSO Basics
All, Multipsk / ALE-400 ARQ QSO Basics... Connecting: 1. Switch to ALE-400 mode in the main window. 2. Click ARQ FAE button 3. Click AUX FUNCTIONS - Aux Functions window will appear. 4. Enter the stations call sign in the SELECTIVE CALL ARQ FAE box. 5. Click the CALL button. Answering: 1. Click ARQ FAE button in the main window. 2. Click ANSWER (make sure ARQ FAE button is activated). Multipsk will indicate the connection once the link is established. Type away and the text will go out automatically - no need to click Tx/Rx buttons. Click END to disconnect. Sending a file: 1. Click AUX FUNCTIONS then FILE TO SEND. 2. Check ATTACHED FILE box. 3. Click SEND MAIL + FILE. Keep the files small! Multipsk will show the estimated transfer time / progress in the Aux Functions box. BTW... The Reed Solomon identifiers in Multipsk are a great feature. The RSID sends mode ID before each transmission and the receiving station will automatically switch to that mode providing the RX ID is activated. The CALL ID is another neat feature -- sends a small text window inside the waterfall that shows the stations grid, power antenna gain etc. Have fun... Tony -K2MO
[digitalradio] ALE-400 Skeds
All, I'll be QRV ALE-400 ARQ chat mode this evening. QRG 14074.0 USB +/- QRM Skeds welcome Tony -K2MO
RE: [digitalradio] ALE-400 Skeds
I am listening although I seem to have some summer static, but summer seems still so far away.. Fred VE3FAL -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 7:26 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] ALE-400 Skeds All, I'll be QRV ALE-400 ARQ chat mode this evening. QRG 14074.0 USB +/- QRM Skeds welcome Tony -K2MO --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090610-0, 06/10/2009 Tested on: 6/11/2009 7:51:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com
[digitalradio] ALE-400 FAE -- ARQ Collisions
All, It's important to make sure your rigs vox delay is off when working ALE-400-ARQ. We've managed to cause a few tx/rx change-over collisions while in QSO by forgetting to turn it off. Tony -K2MO
Re: [digitalradio] ALE-400
Hi Tony and group members, Based on the use (or non use) of ARQ modes for general ham use, suggests to me that they are going to be primarily used for messaging. This is something that we must have for public service/emergency communications, but there are relatively few who are oriented toward digital modes (speaking from considerable experience). This is likely due in part to the use of VHF as the main part of the spectrum used for such activities. It is actually a very new concept in terms of these newer technologies (developed in past year or so) that work with weak signals rather than the older packet systems that required fairly good signals to work over modest distances. Even so, it is very difficult to get operators to even try the new technologies because the great majority are satisfied with only using VHF/UHF phone. Even the zero interface approach is a hard sell. Some of us on this group have used FAE400 on HF with success but three or four users is not enough, HI. Also, in order for new modes to become practical to use, they must be available on the programs that are being used. Based on comments from developers, it appears that FAE400 will only be available on Multipsk and this is more of an experimenters program rather than one used by public service or the average digital user. It may not be practical to build a team of operators, whether local or regional, etc., to use multiple programs where they use one program for e-mail, another one for packet, another for messaging, another for chat, etc. That is why I believe that we need one program that has this capability, and it would need to be simple to use, very basic layout that is understandable to the average ham. I believe that we are coming closer and some groups have standardized on certain programs. Even after we have the perfect program (until the next perfect one comes along), it will take an enormous amount of promotion to effect major changes, HI. One question for Tony: when you tested the ALE mode, was this actually the FAE mode? As I understand it, the FAE modes (wide 2000 Hz and narrow 400 Hz modes) are considerably faster than the older ALE modes due to improved compression, even though they use the same 8FSK modulation. And they are more sensitive, plus the memory ARQ feature of FAE adds additional weak signal capability. 73, Rick, KV9U Moderator, HFDEC (Hams for Disaster and Emergency Communications) yahoogroup Tony wrote: John, Hey man you are preaching to the choir!!! It seems that way om -- first QSO was yesterday so it's all new to me. ALE400 is a great mode, even at higher latitudes such as I am. Simulator seems to indicate that John. Not as robust as other mfsk modes, but beats the pants off of 300 baud HF Packet!!! Are you available for a contact? I'm on 14073.0 USB + 1000Hz. ALE-400
[digitalradio] ALE-400 / minimum S/N
Hello to all, About S/N here are my measures: Lowest S/N (125 bauds ARQ FAE in ALE): - 6.5 dB(- 8.5 dB with many repetitions) Lowest S/N (50 bauds ARQ FAE in ALE400): - 11.5 dB(- 13.5 dB with many repetitions) The tests have been done with 30 characters message. The Tony's tests, as far as I remember, were done with 63 characters message (which is more conservative, but the value must be about 3 dB pessimistic compared to 30 characters message). Here are two quick demonstration files, for the ones interested in this mode (with a previous RS ID it is easier to detect): a.. ALE and ALE400 easy with Multipsk(MS Word Doc, 1.1 MB) a.. The ARQ FAE beacon easy with Multipsk (MS Word Doc, 282 kB) 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: Jose A. Amador ama...@electrica.cujae.edu.cu To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 6:25 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] PSK-ARQ versus ALE-400 I wonder what kind of investment is required. It has as many points as possible in common with sound card modes and only requires MultiPSK as terminal program. If I am not asking for a comparison between apples and oranges (I am not entirely convinced right now... 8-) ), maybe Tony could devise some measurements to compare them. 73, Jose, CO2JA --- Andy obrien wrote: While I have seen how well ALE 400 works, I am not convinced that it is worth the effort to invest in activity due to the lack of other hams using the mode. While ALE400 make sense to me, I can't see hams, en masse , switching to it. I still think that a better option would be the increased development of NBEMS PSK and MFSK with ARQ as implemented in FLDIGI. While perhaps not as robust as ALE 400 FAE , it is far more likely to be used by hams if there is more publicity about NBEMS. Andy K3UK VI Conferencia Internacional de Energía Renovable, Ahorro de Energía y Educación Energética 9 - 12 de Junio 2009, Palacio de las Convenciones ...Por una cultura energética sustentable www.ciercuba.com Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Pages at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Recommended digital mode software: Winwarbler, FLDIGI, DM780, or Multipsk Logging Software: DXKeeper or Ham Radio Deluxe. Yahoo! Groups Links
[digitalradio] ALE-400
All, Had a chance to see ALE-400 in action for the first time thanks to K7TMG. I was very pleased to see how sensitive the mode was and how well balanced it is between bandwidth and throughput. I did test ALE-400 with a path simulator a while back and sensitivity was very good. It seemed to be robust with moderate path distortion and showed partial decode with heavy distortion (see below). I'm not a fan of ALE because of the interference issues. But as an ARQ chat mode, ALE-400 seems to have little competition in the sound card class of modes. Those involved with digital ECOMM might want to take a hard look at this one. Patrick as done a terrific job with BBS, email, messaging and a bunch more Bells and Whistles. Tony -K2MO ARQ Modes Minimum SNR (Direct Path no Ionospheric distortion) PAX (UNPROTO)...-11db ALE400 (UNPROTO).-8db PAX2 (Unproto)...-7db HF Packet (300 baud Unproto).+1db ___ Ionospheric Simulations Throughput SNR = complete Pangram decode *Indicates partial decode Partial decode criteria: = 50% Simulation: High Latitude Moderate Path delay: 3ms Frequency spread: 10Hz Mode Throughput ALE400 (Unproto).-1db / -6db* PAX (Unproto)-4db / -10db* PAX2 (Unproto)...+2db / 0db* HF Packet (Unproto 300bd)..NO DECODE *Partial decode ___ Simulation: High Latitude Disturbed Path delay: 7ms Frequency spread: 30Hz ALE400 (Unproto)..Incomplete / +2db* PAX (Unproto)..NO DECODE PAX2 (Unproto).NO DECODE HF Packet (Unproto 300bd)..NO DECODE
Re: [digitalradio] ALE-400
And another point worth emphasizing is now that MultiPSK's RS ID detection can be extended throughout a 44KHz bandwidth using its SdR interface, it should be possible to initiate an ALE400 FAE ARQ connection to a friend using their SELCAL which will be detected by them automatically anywhere say in the entire 20m digital portion of the band if they have centered their SdR frequency to 14.091MHz (14.070-14.112 range). No need to scan on discrete frequencies, just monitor the whole digital band at once. To me, this has obvious EMCOMM possibilities. 73 Sholto K7TMG Tony wrote: All, Had a chance to see ALE-400 in action for the first time thanks to K7TMG. I was very pleased to see how sensitive the mode was and how well balanced it is between bandwidth and throughput. I did test ALE-400 with a path simulator a while back and sensitivity was very good. It seemed to be robust with moderate path distortion and showed partial decode with heavy distortion (see below). I'm not a fan of ALE because of the interference issues. But as an ARQ chat mode, ALE-400 seems to have little competition in the sound card class of modes. Those involved with digital ECOMM might want to take a hard look at this one. Patrick as done a terrific job with BBS, email, messaging and a bunch more Bells and Whistles. Tony -K2MO
RE: [digitalradio] ALE-400
Hey man you are preaching to the choir!!! ALE400 is a great mode, even at higher latitudes such as I am. Now if we can only convince people to give it a try. John VE5MU From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 4:37 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] ALE-400 All, Had a chance to see ALE-400 in action for the first time thanks to K7TMG. I was very pleased to see how sensitive the mode was and how well balanced it is between bandwidth and throughput. I did test ALE-400 with a path simulator a while back and sensitivity was very good. It seemed to be robust with moderate path distortion and showed partial decode with heavy distortion (see below). I'm not a fan of ALE because of the interference issues. But as an ARQ chat mode, ALE-400 seems to have little competition in the sound card class of modes. Those involved with digital ECOMM might want to take a hard look at this one. Patrick as done a terrific job with BBS, email, messaging and a bunch more Bells and Whistles. Tony -K2MO ARQ Modes Minimum SNR (Direct Path no Ionospheric distortion) PAX (UNPROTO)...-11db ALE400 (UNPROTO).-8db PAX2 (Unproto)...-7db HF Packet (300 baud Unproto).+1db ___ Ionospheric Simulations Throughput SNR = complete Pangram decode *Indicates partial decode Partial decode criteria: = 50% Simulation: High Latitude Moderate Path delay: 3ms Frequency spread: 10Hz Mode Throughput ALE400 (Unproto).-1db / -6db* PAX (Unproto)-4db / -10db* PAX2 (Unproto)...+2db / 0db* HF Packet (Unproto 300bd)..NO DECODE *Partial decode ___ Simulation: High Latitude Disturbed Path delay: 7ms Frequency spread: 30Hz ALE400 (Unproto)..Incomplete / +2db* PAX (Unproto)..NO DECODE PAX2 (Unproto).NO DECODE HF Packet (Unproto 300bd)..NO DECODE
Re: [digitalradio] ALE-400
John, Hey man you are preaching to the choir!!! It seems that way om -- first QSO was yesterday so it's all new to me. ALE400 is a great mode, even at higher latitudes such as I am. Simulator seems to indicate that John. Not as robust as other mfsk modes, but beats the pants off of 300 baud HF Packet!!! Are you available for a contact? I'm on 14073.0 USB + 1000Hz. ALE-400 Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: John Bradley jbrad...@sasktel.net To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 11:32 PM Subject: RE: [digitalradio] ALE-400 Hey man you are preaching to the choir!!! ALE400 is a great mode, even at higher latitudes such as I am. Now if we can only convince people to give it a try. John VE5MU From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 4:37 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] ALE-400 All, Had a chance to see ALE-400 in action for the first time thanks to K7TMG. I was very pleased to see how sensitive the mode was and how well balanced it is between bandwidth and throughput. I did test ALE-400 with a path simulator a while back and sensitivity was very good. It seemed to be robust with moderate path distortion and showed partial decode with heavy distortion (see below). I'm not a fan of ALE because of the interference issues. But as an ARQ chat mode, ALE-400 seems to have little competition in the sound card class of modes. Those involved with digital ECOMM might want to take a hard look at this one. Patrick as done a terrific job with BBS, email, messaging and a bunch more Bells and Whistles. Tony -K2MO ARQ Modes Minimum SNR (Direct Path no Ionospheric distortion) PAX (UNPROTO)...-11db ALE400 (UNPROTO).-8db PAX2 (Unproto)...-7db HF Packet (300 baud Unproto).+1db ___ Ionospheric Simulations Throughput SNR = complete Pangram decode *Indicates partial decode Partial decode criteria: = 50% Simulation: High Latitude Moderate Path delay: 3ms Frequency spread: 10Hz Mode Throughput ALE400 (Unproto).-1db / -6db* PAX (Unproto)-4db / -10db* PAX2 (Unproto)...+2db / 0db* HF Packet (Unproto 300bd)..NO DECODE *Partial decode ___ Simulation: High Latitude Disturbed Path delay: 7ms Frequency spread: 30Hz ALE400 (Unproto)..Incomplete / +2db* PAX (Unproto)..NO DECODE PAX2 (Unproto).NO DECODE HF Packet (Unproto 300bd)..NO DECODE
[digitalradio] ALE 400
VE5MU is back on 3584.5 beaconing every 2 minutes (as of 2300Z)
Re: [digitalradio] ALE 400 auto speed change
Hello Rick, Do you think that it would be possible for some hams to develop something similar, or better yet, follow the MIL-STD specifications so that we have future continued interoperability? I think PCALE and MARSAle have also integered the 110A mode. I hope thay are interoperable with RFSM (?) for at least a common part. However as far as I know the 110A specifications just describe the way to send messages. It is not described: * the way to do the equalizer (everyone does the best possible) on the receiver part, * the protocol to work in an ARQ mode way. Do you have any idea why they use such a high baud rate all the time, even when sending the more robust slow speed data and use multiple repetitions? They use the same modulation: 2400 bauds 8ary PSK all the time, so to recognize any change of speed or interleaving length (given in the preamble). Of course you cannot have very good minimum S/N even at 75 bauds with such a high speed (minimum S/N must be =0 and depends on the bit rate selection), but reversely you can go up to a bit rate of 4800 bits/sec... I suppose that the implicite specifications are a very good throughput with a not too bad S/N. While the MIL-STD does provide for multi-tone as well as single tone, it appears that most development has been for the single tone, therefore there must be a logical reason for this. The single tone is the basic choice, multitones schemes are only options. I still don't comprehend why this concept is so good compared with multi-tone modems. In fact, some of the information I have been able to find, does have the multi-tone slower baud rate perform better than single tone high baud rate in some cases. But often it is supposedly very close. For the same mean HF power, I think the multi-tone must be better because the speed is low and you don't need an equalizer. The equalizer cannot have a perfect performance because the ionospheric transfer function can be identified only approximatively and the function is not strictly stationary between two known data transmissions. Is the reduced crest factor the main advantage for the single tone? Is it around 1.0? I don't see anything about some windowing in the 110A specifications so the crest factor is 1, when, for the multitone, it is very bad (around 0.1or 0.2 depending on the number of tones). What would happen if a slower baud rate were used with a single tone modem, instead of the high baud rate? (Of course it would not be MIL-STD anymore). The idea would be good but of course we will have an exchange between bit rate and minimum S/N qualities: the minimum S/N would be better and the bit rate smaller. But I think 2 tones would be also good: it would permit to double the bit rate, each tone being a channel for the convolutionnal coding. The crest factor factor would be 0.5 without windowing and around 0.35 with a windowing. If you would set your transceiver to the maximum (100 watts) you would supply 35 watts to the antenna, which is sufficient for a continuous working. HW? 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: Rick W. To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 3:42 AM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE 400 auto speed change Hi Patrick, As you know the Russian RFSM developers have adapted MIL-STD-188-110A (maybe even more advanced than that?) as a software modem. It apparently took a large programming effort to do this. Do you think that it would be possible for some hams to develop something similar, or better yet, follow the MIL-STD specifications so that we have future continued interoperability? Do you have any idea why they use such a high baud rate all the time, even when sending the more robust slow speed data and use multiple repetitions? While the MIL-STD does provide for multi-tone as well as single tone, it appears that most development has been for the single tone, therefore there must be a logical reason for this. I still don't comprehend why this concept is so good compared with multi-tone modems. In fact, some of the information I have been able to find, does have the multi-tone slower baud rate perform better than single tone high baud rate in some cases. But often it is supposedly very close. Is the reduced crest factor the main advantage for the single tone? Is it around 1.0? What would happen if a slower baud rate were used with a single tone modem, instead of the high baud rate? (Of course it would not be MIL-STD anymore). 73, Rick, KV9U Patrick Lindecker wrote: Hello Rick, Note that the bandwidth is perhaps five times wider for 2 1/2 times more throughput. Normally it would be possible to have a 2000 Hz ALE at 250 bauds instead of 125 bauds. For, I suppose, a reason of frequency diversity, the shift between two adjacent tones in ALE is twice the baudrate (when the minimum between two adjacent tones would
Re: [digitalradio] ALE 400 auto speed change
Patrick said: I think PCALE and MARSAle have also integered the 110A mode. I hope thay are interoperable with RFSM (?) for at least a common part. I have been told, and confirmed with the RFSM author, that the DLP is modified in RFSM. I have no way to test it but I believe this makes it incompatible with 188-110 modems and also with the ALE implementations. BTW, he said the DLP was not optimal and he improved on it. FWIW I believe the DLP is FS-1052. Howard K5HB - Original Message From: Patrick Lindecker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 7, 2008 3:20:53 AM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE 400 auto speed change Hello Rick, Do you think that it would be possible for some hams to develop something similar, or better yet, follow the MIL-STD specifications so that we have future continued interoperability? I think PCALE and MARSAle have also integered the 110A mode. I hope thay are interoperable with RFSM (?) for at least a common part. However as far as I know the 110A specifications just describe the way to send messages. It is not described: * the way to do the equalizer (everyone does the best possible) on the receiver part, * the protocol to work in an ARQ mode way. Do you have any idea why they use such a high baud rate all the time, even when sending the more robust slow speed data and use multiple repetitions? They use the same modulation: 2400 bauds 8ary PSK all the time, so to recognize any change of speed or interleaving length (given in the preamble). Of course you cannot have very good minimum S/N even at 75 bauds with such a high speed (minimum S/N must be =0 and depends on the bit rate selection), but reversely you can go up to a bit rate of 4800 bits/sec... I suppose that the implicite specifications are a very good throughput with a not too bad S/N. While the MIL-STD does provide for multi-tone as well as single tone, it appears that most development has been for the single tone, therefore there must be a logical reason for this. The single tone is the basic choice, multitones schemes are only options. I still don't comprehend why this concept is so good compared with multi-tone modems. In fact, some of the information I have been able to find, does have the multi-tone slower baud rate perform better than single tone high baud rate in some cases. But often it is supposedly very close. For the same mean HF power, I think the multi-tone must be better because the speed is low and you don't need an equalizer. The equalizer cannot have a perfect performance because the ionospheric transfer function can be identified only approximatively and the function is not strictly stationary between two known data transmissions. Is the reduced crest factor the main advantage for the single tone? Is it around 1.0? I don't see anything about some windowing in the 110A specifications so the crest factor is 1, when, for the multitone, it is very bad (around 0.1or 0.2 depending on the number of tones). What would happen if a slower baud rate were used with a single tone modem, instead of the high baud rate? (Of course it would not be MIL-STD anymore). The idea would be good but of course we will have an exchange between bit rate and minimum S/N qualities: the minimum S/N would be better and the bit rate smaller. But I think 2 tones would be also good: it would permit to double the bit rate, each tone being a channel for the convolutionnal coding. The crest factor factor would be 0.5 without windowing and around 0.35 with a windowing. If you would set your transceiver to the maximum (100 watts) you would supply 35 watts to the antenna, which is sufficient for a continuous working. HW? 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: Rick W. To: digitalradio@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 3:42 AM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE 400 auto speed change Hi Patrick, As you know the Russian RFSM developers have adapted MIL-STD-188- 110A (maybe even more advanced than that?) as a software modem. It apparently took a large programming effort to do this. Do you think that it would be possible for some hams to develop something similar, or better yet, follow the MIL-STD specifications so that we have future continued interoperability? Do you have any idea why they use such a high baud rate all the time, even when sending the more robust slow speed data and use multiple repetitions? While the MIL-STD does provide for multi-tone as well as single tone, it appears that most development has been for the single tone, therefore there must be a logical reason for this. I still don't comprehend why this concept is so good compared with multi-tone modems. In fact, some of the information I have been able to find, does have the multi-tone slower baud rate perform better than single tone high
Re: [digitalradio] ALE 400 auto speed change
With the ALE/FAE modes, the basic ALE 8FSK waveform is used, only slowed down in baud speed from 125 to 50, with the improved sensitivity but reduced throughput, but of course, a much narrower ham friendly bandwidth conserving mode when in ALE/FAE400 vs ALE/FAE 2000. Note that the bandwidth is perhaps five times wider for 2 1/2 times more throughput. This strikes me as one of the best features of Pactor 2 since it always stays close to a 500 Hz footprint, with a constant 100 baud rate, even when it moves to the higher speed constellations from DPSK and through QPSK, 8-PSK, and 16-PSK. Pactor 3 can expand and contract from over 2000 Hz down to around 1000 Hz when it drops to only 2 tones in its most robust mode. It only uses DPSK and QPSK and no higher constellations. At the slowest speed, it may only exceed P2 capability a modest amount (due to the wider spacing of the two tones), but has a net raw speed of only 77 bps. I would expect other modes to perform close to that with similar tone spacing. If you have larger set of tones, such as 8FSK, I wonder if you can adapt as much in terms of baud rate speed changes vs. keeping tone numbers smaller but with higher constellations? And then the bigger effect of P3 which can completely drop tones as needed for more robustness instead of speed. Dr. Rink (SCS) has said that PSK modes do require slightly less S/N ratio over FSK modes and perhaps with always on FEC coding may be a wise choice of modulation using two tones that are modulated with varying constellations? Most of the new soundcard modes have quite a few tones in them, at least 8 or more, and maybe reducing the number of tones might be more ham friendly and still have good throughput? Two tones effectively doubles the throughput compared with single tone PSK mode and yet allows for a relatively low crest factor in concentrating more energy into each of the tones rather than spreading them very thin across many tones. Pactor 3 is very similar to P2, but has the nearly five times wider footprint without being able to operate 5 times faster. I am not sure how often P2 can reach the highest speed level of around 700 bps plus compression compared to how often P3 can reach its highest speed level SL-6 at 2722 bps plus compression, but I suspect that P2 can generally outperform P3 when you take the bandwidth into consideration. But if we only need to change the baud rate of the 8FSK signal, we can do that now with switching between 8FSK50 and 8FSK125 with the attendant problem of drastically widening the footprint and the increased difficulty of finding a clear area to transmit. 73, Rick, KV9U So Andrew O'Brien wrote: Would it be possible for ALE 400 in multipsk to use the SNR measurement of the slave station and signal the master to switch to a slower/faster speed when indicated ?
Re: [digitalradio] ALE 400 auto speed change
Hello Rick, Note that the bandwidth is perhaps five times wider for 2 1/2 times more throughput. Normally it would be possible to have a 2000 Hz ALE at 250 bauds instead of 125 bauds. For, I suppose, a reason of frequency diversity, the shift between two adjacent tones in ALE is twice the baudrate (when the minimum between two adjacent tones would be a shift in Hz equal to the baudrate). However for big transfer speeds, there are the choice between several solutions, for example: * something close to the 110A solution: one carrier modulated at 2400 bauds 8ary PSK and different configurations (but with a necessary equalizer and some regular known data to supply the equalizer), * or many carriers modulated in BPSK (or QPSK) as with MT63, but a weak crest factor and no need for an equalizer. 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: Rick W. To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 8:48 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE 400 auto speed change With the ALE/FAE modes, the basic ALE 8FSK waveform is used, only slowed down in baud speed from 125 to 50, with the improved sensitivity but reduced throughput, but of course, a much narrower ham friendly bandwidth conserving mode when in ALE/FAE400 vs ALE/FAE 2000. Note that the bandwidth is perhaps five times wider for 2 1/2 times more throughput. This strikes me as one of the best features of Pactor 2 since it always stays close to a 500 Hz footprint, with a constant 100 baud rate, even when it moves to the higher speed constellations from DPSK and through QPSK, 8-PSK, and 16-PSK. Pactor 3 can expand and contract from over 2000 Hz down to around 1000 Hz when it drops to only 2 tones in its most robust mode. It only uses DPSK and QPSK and no higher constellations. At the slowest speed, it may only exceed P2 capability a modest amount (due to the wider spacing of the two tones), but has a net raw speed of only 77 bps. I would expect other modes to perform close to that with similar tone spacing. If you have larger set of tones, such as 8FSK, I wonder if you can adapt as much in terms of baud rate speed changes vs. keeping tone numbers smaller but with higher constellations? And then the bigger effect of P3 which can completely drop tones as needed for more robustness instead of speed. Dr. Rink (SCS) has said that PSK modes do require slightly less S/N ratio over FSK modes and perhaps with always on FEC coding may be a wise choice of modulation using two tones that are modulated with varying constellations? Most of the new soundcard modes have quite a few tones in them, at least 8 or more, and maybe reducing the number of tones might be more ham friendly and still have good throughput? Two tones effectively doubles the throughput compared with single tone PSK mode and yet allows for a relatively low crest factor in concentrating more energy into each of the tones rather than spreading them very thin across many tones. Pactor 3 is very similar to P2, but has the nearly five times wider footprint without being able to operate 5 times faster. I am not sure how often P2 can reach the highest speed level of around 700 bps plus compression compared to how often P3 can reach its highest speed level SL-6 at 2722 bps plus compression, but I suspect that P2 can generally outperform P3 when you take the bandwidth into consideration. But if we only need to change the baud rate of the 8FSK signal, we can do that now with switching between 8FSK50 and 8FSK125 with the attendant problem of drastically widening the footprint and the increased difficulty of finding a clear area to transmit. 73, Rick, KV9U So Andrew O'Brien wrote: Would it be possible for ALE 400 in multipsk to use the SNR measurement of the slave station and signal the master to switch to a slower/faster speed when indicated ?
[digitalradio] ALE 400 auto speed change
--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Rick W. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: speeds to match conditions, something that has not been done to any great extent on sound card modes. Rick, KV9U Would it be possible for ALE 400 in multipsk to use the SNR measurement of the slave station and signal the master to switch to a slower/faster speed when indicated ? Andy K3UK
[digitalradio] ALE 400
Happy New Year to all! Just before Christmas, Sholto and I were busy with ALE400 on 10136.0 , with good results most days between the west coast and Central Canada, as well as into the US mid-west. Haven't been listening on 20M much since the band has been very poor here, I think because of more aurora activity at this latitude. As a suggestion, let's use just a few frequencies for ALE400 , increasing the chances of finding someone there. As an example 3584,7038, 10136, 14094, 18104,21094 would work, and also be consistent with the new Region 2 Band plan Which comes into effect January 1, 2008. For myself, I have been sitting on 10136 mostly, with a few trips to 14094. I have come to appreciate 30M much more than before, And been using the 30m digital spot page ( http:// http://www.projectsand www.projectsandparts.com/30m/ which Sholto has been running. I leave my rig on, so please try a connect or a sounding on 10136. I have sent this individually to some since I'm not sure that this message would make it through all the QRM on Digitalradio J Seventythirds John VE5MU
Re: [digitalradio] ALE 400
Hi John and group, I have written these frequencies down on a card here in the shack so I can easily refer to them. They are quite different from the ALE400 frequencies that Bonnie invented, but to me are just as valid as long as we can agree on one spot frequency per band. One nice thing is that you only need to know the dial frequency because this mode defaults to an audio center of 1625 Hz. Now, I usually want to use FAE rather than ALE, but I am assuming you are calling in ALE400? I am still not quite understanding when you use ALE and when you use FAE and why. Perhaps if you called up a group call you would need the ALE? Normally, I would call CQ or a specific station which is available with FAE400, but since FAE becomes a connected mode, is that the reason to use ALE400? The disadvantage to using ALE at all, is that it is less sensitive than FAE, but perhaps making a connection on ALE will usually mean that the FAE mode will be even better? I tried calling on the 10136 frequency with VE5MU and also QRZ but no luck so far. For general calls, what should we use? QRZ? Or something else like DRYG (Digital Radio Yahoo Group)? Just kidding. Well ... sort of anyway. 73, Rick, KV9U John Bradley wrote: Happy New Year to all! Just before Christmas, Sholto and I were busy with ALE400 on 10136.0 , with good results most days between the west coast and Central Canada, as well as into the US mid-west. Haven’t been listening on 20M much since the band has been very poor here, I think because of more aurora activity at this latitude. As a suggestion, let’s use just a few frequencies for ALE400 , increasing the chances of finding someone there. As an example 3584,7038, 10136, 14094, 18104,21094 would work, and also be consistent with the new Region 2 Band plan Which comes into effect January 1, 2008. For myself, I have been sitting on 10136 mostly, with a few trips to 14094. I have come to appreciate 30M much more than before, And been using the 30m digital spot page ( http:// www.projectsand http://www.projectsandparts.com/30m/ which Sholto has been running. I leave my rig on, so please try a connect or a sounding on 10136. I have sent this individually to some since I’m not sure that this message would make it through all the QRM on Digitalradio J Seventythirds John VE5MU No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.11/1201 - Release Date: 12/28/2007 11:51 AM Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Page at http://www.obriensweb.com/drsked/drsked.php View the DRCC numbers database at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/database Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
