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Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 5:33 PM, Robert Andrews <i...@avantwireless.com>
wrote:

> I don't know if it's how the list is sending out or something that changed
> with Thunderbird but "reply-list" is now only reply-all for this message,
> but on the topic of 48v vs 24v there are a lot more solutions in ac-dc for
> 24v consumer level than 48v.   and when 48v comes up most manufacturers
> instantly do 4x pricing it seems...
>
> On 06/21/2018 01:14 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>
>> Just think how small of wire you could use with 5K...
>>
>> Okay, yeah, there would be some other problems that would kind of make
>> that not worth it. 48V seems to be a pretty good compromise, there aren't
>> really any different safety concerns between 24v and 48v, so I don't really
>> see a good argument for anything less than 48v, other than that it's what
>> we've been using for years... which isn't really that good of an argument,
>> when you think about it.
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 3:02 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>     Well my solar string inverters are 1K DC.
>>
>>     Yep, if efficiency is the concern 5K would be good if you are
>>     hauling the energy any distance at all.
>>     Long distance transmission lines go up to 1 MV.
>>
>>     But safety comes into play at some point.  48 volts is still
>>     considered low voltage, less rules and regs and almost zero shock
>>     hazard.  I cannot feel 48.  Some can.
>>
>>     -----Original Message----- From: Robert Andrews
>>     Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 1:59 PM
>>     To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
>>     Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz
>>
>>
>>     Ok, 5K volt then..
>>
>>     On 06/21/2018 11:20 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>         Higher is always better.
>>         Wires are smaller.
>>         Everything is more efficient.
>>         Everything runs cooler.
>>         Less voltage drop.
>>         Less power loss in conductors.
>>         Sometimes simplifies the design of the load device.
>>         *From:* Josh Luthman
>>         *Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 12:17 PM
>>         *To:* Chuck McCown
>>         *Cc:* Mathew Howard ; AFMUG
>>         *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz
>>         In a perfect world it would all be 100% 48v (or hell even 100%
>>         24v) but the only rule of standards is that there are no
>> standards.
>>         See XKCD 927 - https://xkcd.com/927/
>>         Josh Luthman
>>         Office: 937-552-2340
>>         Direct: 937-552-2343
>>         1100 Wayne St
>>         Suite 1337
>>         Troy, OH 45373
>>         On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 2:10 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com
>>         <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
>>
>>              Nice to see the smaller players learning how to put on
>>         their big boy
>>              pants and join the ranks of carrier grade vendors.
>>              *From:* Mathew Howard
>>              *Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 12:08 PM
>>              *To:* Josh Luthman
>>              *Cc:* Chuck McCown ; AFMUG
>>              *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically
>> 2ghz
>>              Well, MikroTik does have 48v now (the hEX PoE/PowerBox Pro
>>         will take
>>              up to 57 volts), but it's only one or the other, it doesn't
>>         do any
>>              voltage conversion. But what I've been doing at some sites is
>>              something like using one PowerBox Pro to feed all the 24v
>>         only gear,
>>              and a second one to feed the 48v gear.
>>              On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:02 PM, Josh Luthman
>>              <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
>>         <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:
>>
>>                  Agreed.
>>                  EdgePoint does 48v only but has the outdoor part.
>>                  Netonix does 24v and 48v but doesn't have any outdoor
>>         capability
>>                  (enclosures would have to be ridiculous for the 12 port+)
>>                  Mikrotik only has 4 ports and 24v only.
>>
>>                  Josh Luthman
>>                  Office: 937-552-2340
>>                  Direct: 937-552-2343
>>                  1100 Wayne St
>>
>>         <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+
>> OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g
>>         <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+
>> OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>>
>>                  Suite 1337
>>
>>         <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+
>> OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g
>>         <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+
>> OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>>
>>                  Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>         <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+
>> OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g
>>         <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+
>> OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>>
>>
>>                  On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 2:01 PM, Mathew Howard
>>                  <mhoward...@gmail.com <mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>                      Yeah, that's the easiest compromise at this point.
>>                      What I'd like, is a box that I can connect a power
>>         supply to
>>                      (whether that's 48v, or 24v, I don't care) that
>>         gives my a
>>                      48v and a 24v output, and has another connection for
>>                      batteries and it deals with feeding the batteries the
>>                      correct voltages and current. Whether that's 12v,
>>         24v or 48v
>>                      batteries, I don't really care... although I'd
>>         prefer 12v or
>>                      24v so can use a smaller number of bigger
>>         batteries, if I
>>                      want to.
>>                      Ideally, Forrest would build this, so I could just
>>         plug it
>>                      into the SiteMonitors that are already there, and
>>         be able to
>>                      monitor and control it as well.
>>                      Of course I can buy all the parts separately to do
>>         the same
>>                      thing, but having a pre-built box to do the job
>>         would be a
>>                      lot cleaner.
>>                      On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:52 PM, Josh Luthman
>>                      <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
>>         <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:
>>
>>                          It was 48v
>>                          Then it was mostly 24v
>>                          Now it's going 48v
>>                          Just give it a little bit, it'll go back to 24v.
>>                          I'd rather get a power supply doing 26v to fix my
>>                          problem in 2 minutes than start changing things
>>         to 48v
>>                          which would blow so much stuff up (epmp non
>>         gps, ubnt M
>>                          gear, half the Mikrotiks)
>>
>>                          Josh Luthman
>>                          Office: 937-552-2340
>>                          Direct: 937-552-2343
>>                          1100 Wayne St
>>
>>         <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+
>> OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g
>>         <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+
>> OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>>
>>                          Suite 1337
>>
>>         <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+
>> OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g
>>         <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+
>> OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>>
>>                          Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>         <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+
>> OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g
>>         <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+
>> OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>>
>>
>>                          On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:05 PM, Mathew Howard
>>                          <mhoward...@gmail.com
>>         <mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>                              No, there's not really a good reason, it
>>         just means
>>                              you have an extra part to deal with.
>>                              We still use UBNT for our 2.4ghz stuff, but
>>         those
>>                              are the only radios that won't run off 48v
>>         on most
>>                              of our new sites, so I've done some that
>>         are 48v
>>                              only and just use those things on the
>>         radios that
>>                              need them. But if you have more than 1 or 2
>>         things
>>                              that need 24v, it's generally more
>>         practical to just
>>                              use a bigger voltage converter and run
>> multiple
>>                              radios off it.
>>                              On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:57 AM,
>>         <ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>>
>>                              wrote:
>>
>>                                  Yep, that was what I was thinking.
>>                                  So, looks to me like there is no reason
>>         not to
>>                                  do 48 volts.
>>                                  *From:* Mathew Howard
>>                                  *Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:56 AM
>>                                  *To:* Chuck McCown
>>                                  *Cc:* Dave ; AFMUG
>>                                  *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages
>>         again -
>>                                  specifically 2ghz
>>                                  You mean like this?
>>
>>         https://www.ubnt.com/accessories/instant-8023af-adapters/
>>         <https://www.ubnt.com/accessories/instant-8023af-adapters/>
>>
>>         <https://www.ubnt.com/accessories/instant-8023af-adapters/
>>         <https://www.ubnt.com/accessories/instant-8023af-adapters/>>
>>                                  Or do you have something better in mind?
>>                                  On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:53 AM,
>>                                  <ch...@wbmfg.com
>>         <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
>>
>>                                      Me too...
>>                                      So, what appetite is there for an
>>         inline POE
>>                                      regulator that would convert 48 to
>> 24?
>>                                      *From:* Mathew Howard
>>                                      *Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018
>>         10:50 AM
>>                                      *To:* Dave
>>                                      *Cc:* AFMUG
>>                                      *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP
>>         voltages again -
>>                                      specifically 2ghz
>>                                      ugh... I keep forgetting to use
>>         reply-to-all...
>>                                      Not every single UBNT radio... all
>> the
>>                                      airfibers will happily take 48v.
>>         Mikrotik is
>>                                      finally starting to make most of
>>         the new
>>                                      stuff handle 48v (including the
>>         PowerBox
>>                                      Pro), but yeah. UBNT is the reason
>>         I still
>>                                      have to use 24v on most of our
>>         towers...
>>                                      they make a converter you can stick
>>         on in
>>                                      line with the radios, but that's
>>         kind of a
>>                                      pain if you have more than one or
>>         two, and
>>                                      it's an extra part to fail.
>>                                      On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:46 AM,
>> Dave
>>                                      <dmilho...@wletc.com
>>         <mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com>> wrote:
>>
>>                                          They make dental floss for that
>> :)
>>
>>
>>                                          On 06/21/2018 11:39 AM, Josh
>>         Luthman wrote:
>>
>>                                              Except for every single
>>             Ubnt device
>>                                              and a majority of
>> Mikrotiks....
>>                                              Josh Luthman
>>                                              Office: 937-552-2340
>>                                              Direct: 937-552-2343
>>                                              1100 Wayne St
>>
>>             <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+
>> OH+%0D%0A++++45373&entry=gmail&source=g
>>             <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+
>> OH+%0D%0A++++45373&entry=gmail&source=g>>
>>                                              Suite 1337
>>
>>             <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+
>> OH+%0D%0A++++45373&entry=gmail&source=g
>>             <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+
>> OH+%0D%0A++++45373&entry=gmail&source=g>>
>>                                              Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>             <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+%0D%0A++++++Wayne+St+Suite+
>> %0D%0A++++++1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g
>>             <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+%0D%0A++++++Wayne+St+Suite+
>> %0D%0A++++++1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>>
>>                                              On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at
>>             12:39 PM, Josh
>>                                              Baird <joshba...@gmail.com
>>             <mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>                                                  I promise life will be
>>             easier if
>>                                                  you just use 48V.  :)
>>                                                  On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at
>>             12:35 PM,
>>                                                  Josh Luthman
>>                                                             <
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
>>             <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:
>>
>>                                                      I'm trying to use a
>>             Powerbox
>>                                                      Pro to power up two
>>             epmp APs. The 5 GHz is just fine but the
>>                                                      2 GHz is saying
>>             current too
>>                                                      low.  Both ports
>>             are getting
>>                                                      23 volts and the
>>             cables are
>>                                                      <10 feet (from the
>>             Powerbox Pro).
>>                                                      Does anyone know if
>>             the 2ghz
>>                                                      requires more
>>             voltage possibly?
>>                                                      Spec sheet does say
>>             23 volts
>>                                                      min but it's weird
>>             one powers
>>                                                      (5 ghz) and the
>>             other doesn't.
>>                                                      Josh Luthman
>>                                                      Office: 937-552-2340
>>                                                      Direct: 937-552-2343
>>                                                      1100 Wayne St
>>
>>             <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+
>> OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g
>>             <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+
>> OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>>
>>                                                      Suite 1337
>>
>>             <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+
>> OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g
>>             <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+
>> OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>>
>>                                                      Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>             <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+
>> OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g
>>             <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+
>> OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>>
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