Op vr, 05-05-2006 te 16:23 -0400, schreef Youness Alaoui: > On Fri, 05 May 2006 15:34:44 -0400, Karel Demeyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > Op vr, 05-05-2006 te 14:55 -0400, schreef Youness Alaoui: > >> On Fri, 05 May 2006 14:26:26 -0400, Karel Demeyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> wrote: > >> > >> > Please comment on this. I was assited by 2 Gnome Usability guys for > >> > this. About the contactlist-right-click menu I have to ask some more > >> > advice fomr 'm. But we have to make sure what we want. When a user > >> is > >> > not online and we double-click, and we want it to open a SMS for > >> mobile > >> > users, we should have "send an SMS" as first item and have thus the > >> > action on doubleclick and also the first group of actions in that menu > >> > depend on this. If you gray out the first item and do it also for > >> > others, it means you don't have any double-click action defined. > >> > > >> cool, but I still beleive the popup menu should be the same for every > >> user > >> with items greyed out and "first non-greyed out action == double-click" > > > > > > I asked for advice on this one but didn't get reply yet. I'll keep you > > informed. The Gnome HIG states the first thing in a contextual menu > > should be: > > "the double-click action for object, when it exists" So for mobile > > users this should be the "send sms" entry. But I know invariance in UI > > is very important as it makes it easier to find stuff; As in: > > "Do not remove command items from the menu when they are unavailable, > > make them insensitive instead. This allows the user to infer what > > functionality the application provides even if it is not currently > > available, and keeping the menu structure static makes it easier to > > memorize." -- about 'Command items' (the only kind of items we have in > > this menu) in general though the examples are all for drop-down menus > > (in the menubar). > ok, you keep me informed, thanks for taking my comment into account :) you > also reminded me that I forgot to say in my previous mail is that the HIG > says that for 'right clicking on an item', but it doesn't take into > account the fact that an item might be dynamic, so a different state of > the same item can have different actions on double click... I was trying > to find an example of something similar (an app with contextual menus on > dynamic items) and I found out that a very simple example is windows > explorer.. you right click on a file, the first (bold) item is "Open", but > if the file has an unknown extension the menu becomes "Open with.." (which > also exists on a known file).. but when you think about it, for win32, > most of the time, the 'Open' button is not always the first one in the > list! and the action for double click is actually in bold, not the first > one... I thought it might be good to specify that.
It's just much more easy to just know the default is what's on the first place then having the default somewhere in you menu in bold. This makes you *have to* 'scan' the menu. When it's the first, knowingf you follow your mouse-pointer with your eyes, it's immediately in your close sight. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts'_law > > Anyway, I'm gonna contact both gnome usability ppl as openusability ppl > > (hey have a IRC channel ;)) to get some advice on this. I think both > > guidelines are kind of important, so I'll try to know what it should be > > according to Gnome HIG ppl as there is the controversy to be foudn and > > then see what openusability ppl have to say too :) > > > > > > A cool fait-divers; a lot of even-computer-literate users don't know > > about contextual menus or "right click". > > Apple IG: > > "A contextual menu is hidden by default and a user might not know it > > exists, so it should never be the only way to access a command. In > > particular, you should not use a contextual menu as the only way to > > access an advanced or power-user feature." > > Gnome HIG: > > "Be aware that popup menus are used primarily by intermediate and > > advanced users. Even some users who have used graphical desktops for > > many years do not know about popup menus until somebody shows them." > > > > hehe, I'm very surprised... I can't even remember since when I've been > using contextual menus, I think since win 3.1 :p > anyways, OT, let's try to keep the thread as small as possible ? I'm so > much not in the mood for lengthy discussions and I hate too many forth and > backs... Well, I guessed someone would respond like "but just put this n the context menu and you don't need it in teh menus" (and so did Harry, I didn't (yet ?) respond to his mail but I had a lengthy discussion with him without a real conclusion) and this is wrong just because of this. All functionality, in fact should be reachable by the menus. This also means all commands invoked by buttons and actions in context-menus. I just had a conversation on #openusability and here is a short resumé: scapor: See, I'm reorganising the menus for aMSN (http://amsn.sf.net) and use the Gnome HIG as reference. Now, rightclicking a user gives some actions, "send a message" (only possible if contact is not offline), "send a SMS" (only if a mobile device/account is set up by the contact) and "send e-mail" (allways possible). Now the HIG prescribes to have the doubleclick action as first item in the popup-menu. Though, it also says you shouldn't remove items but gray 'm out. What should the menu-entries be like when a contact is online / offline with mobile set up / offline without mobile ? ... (more explanation needed) ... scapor: see, for online ppl, the double-click action is "send a message", for offline ppl wioth mobile capabilitu "send sms", for offline ppl without mobile, "send e-mail" ... (some stuff about Gnome HIG) ... seele: Send [default] seele: Send other > /other send/ \n /other send/ seele: [default] whatever is configured for that status scapor: and when the nr of "other items" = 0 or 1 no submenu seele: right scapor: so much like the "open" and "open with" stuff in filemanagers seele: sortof, because your problem is 2-fold scapor: so this does remove the non-used items then scapor: and as I only have like maximum 2 other items I think we never need a submenu seele: the important thing is that the default action fo being double clicked is the first item scapor: as a submennu for 2 items is not done ? seele: although it is sensitive to the object's status, i dont think it should be too much of an issue for the user ... scapor: they are added kind of "dynamically" though ... scapor: as for now the maximum is 3 actions and this is only in a few cases (for me, like 4 contacts have a Mobile account linked to their IM account) I don't think I'll create a submenu. But I might have something like "create a list of "non default actions" and make it possible for plugins to add stuff here and then after the plugins used the event, create a submenu if there are like 3 "extra actions" or more, otherwise just insert 'm in the root menu That's all, Folks ... [The end] So, right now, I'll just keep the context-menu like it's now in CVS and possibly later on add the code to have a submenu created if 3 or more "other actions" are defined. If you still feel bad about it, please react now. Also, I guess some wanted to also have actions like "send webcam" etc in this menu ? So maybe I do need to create the code I talked about in teh end of th chat so I can have 'm added by PowerTool ? Karel > > take care > KKRT > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > Under here the mainwin-proposal, > >> > > >> > Karel. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > These are not anymore in this menus-proposal: > >> > > >> > [OFF] amsn versioncontrol -> in about window > >> > This was removes because it's not very much used anyway and only > >> > populates > >> > screen real-estate. whe a user checks the version he/she has in the > >> > about > >> > window, he/she should be able to check for the latest release in > >> there > >> > too. > >> > > >> > [OFF] minimise instead of close -> in preferences > >> > This is something only set once. From usability point of view it's > >> > even > >> > wrong to minimise a window (to the tray) when the close button is > >> used > >> > as > >> > this should do the same as the "close" entry in the main menu. > >> Though, > >> > this is an often requested feature, so it should be kept, and it's > >> > place > >> > is in the preferences window. > >> > > >> > >> here's an example of a non respected thing from the guideline.. congrats > >> for your open mind ;) :p > >> > >> > [OFF] Change language -> in preferences > >> > This is a preference mostly only set once and thus belongs in the > >> > preferences screen. > >> > [OFF] Change skin -> appearances in prefs > >> > Idem dito. > >> > > >> > > >> > >> all seem to be well justified, 100% agree > >> > >> > >> I s > >> > >> > >> > >> > > >> > This is hte proposal: > >> > > >> > ===Account=== > >> > Log in as ... > >> > Log in > >> > Log out > >> > --- > >> > Change Nickname ... > >> > My Status > > >> > --- > >> > Go to Inbox > >> > My profile > >> > --- > >> > view received files > >> > show events history > >> > --- > >> > Enable sounds > >> > Plugins > >> > Prefs > >> > --- > >> > Close > >> > > >> > > >> > ===View=== > >> > Sort contacts by status > >> > Sort contacts by group > >> > * Sort contacts in hybrid mode > >> > --- > >> > * Show contact with nickname > >> > Show contact with email > >> > --- > >> > Change global nickname ... > >> > --- > >> > * Sort groups ascending > >> > Sort groups descending > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ===Actions=== > >> > send a message > >> > send sms > >> > send email > >> > --- > >> > send file or foto > >> > send webcam > >> > ask to see webcam > >> > > >> > > >> > (Wanted to merge this with "Contacts" but it would make the menu > >> > too crowded andalso plugins should still be able to add stuff here) > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ===Contacts=== > >> > add a contact ... > >> > remove a contact ... > >> > Contact properties > >> > --- > >> > New group > >> > Rename group > >> > Remove group > >> > --- > >> > view chat history > >> > view webcam sessions > >> > --- > >> > save contactlist > >> > load saved contactlist > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ===Help=== > >> > contents > >> > --- > >> > FAQ > >> > online help > >> > --- > >> > about aMSN > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> I 99% agree, you really did a great job on this! kudos > >> my few comments : why enable sound in account menu ? yes it is account > >> option, but I don't see it in there.. > >> I would also think that an "Options" or "Tools" menu would be usefull > >> (enable sound in there as well as access to prefs window + any often > >> modified preferences) > >> Also, optional, but what do you think of (as a new feature) a "Windows" > >> menu ? with the list of all opened windows/contains.. might be usefull.. > >> since it needs new code, maybe if it's accepted, do the design and keep > >> it > >> in the wiki until we implement the code for it. > >> > >> you also pointed out something interesting when talking about some stuff > >> that needs to be moved to prefs window.. how about a redesign of the > >> prefs > >> window :p yes, it WILL be redesigned.. but in time only.. also, we'd > >> need > >> someone to take it where Alvaro left on the new prefs window, I think he > >> has the API finished, but only needs to code the items to apepar in the > >> prefs window.. > >> post-0.96 > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> KaKaRoTo > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------- > >> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, > >> security? > >> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > >> easier > >> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > >> Geronimo > >> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Amsn-devel mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amsn-devel > >> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > > easier > > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > > Geronimo > > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > > _______________________________________________ > > Amsn-devel mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amsn-devel > > > ------------------------------------------------------- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid0709&bid&3057&dat1642 _______________________________________________ Amsn-devel mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amsn-devel
