well then you're beside the point because we weren't looking for ways to consume a lot of sugars in a day. And we weren't talking about mortality, but reducing morbidity. Excess weight is morbidity.
Apart from that though, I still think your facts are wrong. On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 10:56 AM, Gruss Gott <grussg...@gmail.com> wrote: > > My probably poorly made point was that IMO if you're going to consume a > lot of sugars in a day ( or week ) then what type they are - including > artificial ones - probably doesn't make a big difference. > > The fructose (or chemical) is going to kill you whether it be by diabetes, > heart disease, cancer, etc. > > Either stay away or use stevia, but even there why replace a bad habit > with a less bad habit? > > If you love smoking, then just smoke filter-less. > > The question isn't whether it's going to kill you, it's the morbidity you > have prior to death. > > > > On Jan 30, 2012, at 12:44 AM, Dana <dana.tier...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > ok well... whatever works for you. "Don't worry about high fructose corn > > syrup" does not work for me. Been there, done that, didn't work for me. > > Eating fresh fruit and vegetables -- does. Can't quite figure out how > they > > can be poisonous, and since eating them works for me, I am going to > ignore > > you on this point. > > > > On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 11:14 PM, Gruss Gott <grussg...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > >> > >> You're right - here's the key point from wiki on table sugar: > >> > >> "In humans and other mammals, sucrose is broken down into its > constituent > >> monosaccharides,glucose and fructose" > >> > >> HFCS can really be all sorts of mixes but lets say it's HFCS 55: that > >> means 55% fructose and 45% glucose. In other words your body doesnt > have > >> to break it down first. This is also very similar to honey's sugar > >> profile. Here's the thing with fructose from wiki: > >> > >> "Fructose is absorbed from the gastrointestinal tract by a different > >> mechanism than that for glucose. Glucose stimulates insulin release from > >> the isolated pancreas, but fructose does not. Fructose is metabolized > >> primarily in the liver." > >> > >> So if you want to experiment, try using honey in place of HFCS - in > >> general you should see no difference. They're the exact same. > >> > >> Bottom line IMO: stay away from all sugars especially fructose. It's > bad > >> ju ju. Any experienced trainer will tell you the same thing. Or > doctor: > >> > >> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sugar-t.html > >> > >> Fructose is likely a poison. > >> > >> > >> On Jan 29, 2012, at 9:54 PM, Dana <dana.tier...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> nuh uh, been down that road and couldn't figure out why I kept gaining > >>> weight. Your mileage may vary and apparently does but the science is on > >>> Larry's side on this: > >>> > >>> http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S26/91/22K07/ > >>> > >>> > >> > http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/02/18/FDGS24VKMH1.DTL&ao=all > >>> > >>> oh and I just found this while I was looking those up, so all the more > >>> reason, I say. > >>> > >>> > >> > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/26/AR2009012601831.html > >>> > >>> As for avoiding fruit, um, disagree there too. I can't really explain > the > >>> difference between fructose in fruit and fructose in high fructose corn > >>> syrup, but apparently there is one, because eliminating processed food > >> has > >>> very much made the difference for me. > >>> > >>> Dana > >>> > >>> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 7:26 PM, Gruss Gott <grussg...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >>> > >>>> > >>>> Don't worry about HFCS ... Any more than any other sweetener that is. > >>>> > >>>> It's just like cane sugar, beet sugar, maple sugar, agave sugar, etc > >> etc. > >>>> > >>>> They're all sugar: a mix of sucrose/fructose, usually about 50/50. > >>>> > >>>> It's the fructose (without fiber) that kills you. Literally. Stay > away > >>>> from all forms of fructose except whole fruit and that only sparingly, > >>>> ideally berries or grapefruit. > >>>> > >>>> If you want sweetener use stevia. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Jan 29, 2012, at 5:08 PM, "Eric Roberts" < > >>>> ow...@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> HFCS are evil. I try to avoid them when I can, but it is pretty hard > >> to > >>>>> avoid them completely. We even, when we drink soda, make our own > >> using a > >>>>> Sodastream machine...their syrups have less sugar for the regular > ones > >>>> (zero > >>>>> for the diet syrups) and do not contain HFCS. Most of the time we > just > >>>>> drink Crystal Lite since that uses splenda rather than aspartame > >>>> (something > >>>>> that is also very evil). When I was first diagnosed with diabetes > back > >>>> in > >>>>> 2000, I stopped drinking regular sodas and lost 50lbs in a few months > >>>>> without doing anything else. > >>>>> > >>>>> I generally make my sauce from scratch and I don't use meat in it. I > >>>> have > >>>>> yet to hear a single critical word about it :-D > >>>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: Dana [mailto:dana.tier...@gmail.com] > >>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 6:42 PM > >>>>> To: cf-community > >>>>> Subject: Re: Obesity in Children > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> yeah, I gave the can away... don't see the point. If I am going to > eat > >>>>> something that's not good for me, I can think of things I would enjoy > >>>> more > >>>>> than tomato sauce ;) But I seem to remember reading that they were > >>>> starting > >>>>> to call high fructose corn syrup something else now, anyone know > >> anything > >>>>> about that? > >>>>> > >>>>> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 4:25 PM, Eric Roberts < > >>>>> ow...@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Actually sweeting tomato sauce is common, but I have always said > that > >>>>>> if you need to sweeten your tomato sauce, you probably shouldn't be > >>>>>> making it. If done right, it doesn't need anything to sweeten it. > So > >>>>>> if you are buying premade sauce, if it is sweetened, more than > likely > >>>>>> it has HFCS. I do watch the labels when I know it is going to do > any > >>>>>> good. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>> From: Dana [mailto:dana.tier...@gmail.com] > >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 7:10 PM > >>>>>> To: cf-community > >>>>>> Subject: Re: Obesity in Children > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> It's possible, just not easy. I think another key is letting > processed > >>>>>> foods go, as a group. Even the stuff Whole Foods sells isn't > >>>>>> necessarily organic, and unless you read every single label and look > >>>>>> up every ingredient...I just noticed High fructose corn syrup in the > >>>>>> tomato sauce I was using. I mean, tomato sauce? Why sweeten that? > The > >>>>>> next step I want to take is buying at the farmer's market, and even > >>>>>> then I may ask some questions. Living in Santa Cruz County taught me > >>>>>> that even something as apparently healthy as fresh strawberries has > >>>>>> hidden gotchas. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 4:58 PM, Eric Roberts < > >>>>>> ow...@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I would say a little of both. It's really stacked against us. > >>>>>>> Corporate greed overrides putting in healthy ingredients...instead > >>>>>>> we use chemicals that are harmful to us and tend to increase > >>>>>>> obesity. In the lower class and even parts of the middle class...i > >>>>>>> would say that yes, we are powerless to stop obesity. Back when we > >>>>>>> had Mom at home cooking a fresh dinner with fresh ingredients, it > >> was a > >>>>> lot easier. > >>>>>>> Now that most households are 2 income households, we are forced to > >>>>>>> eat more fast food and foods that we can prepare quickly. These > >>>>>>> foods have high amounts of saturated fats and high fructose corn > >>>>>>> syrup and other products that lead to faster weight gain. > >>>>>>> These products tend to have more calories per serving. Healthy > >>>>>>> foods are much more expensive to buy and a lot of people just can't > >>>>>>> afford it. I know I would love to shop at whole foods all the > time, > >>>>>>> but I would go broke real fast and I make pretty decent money. > Even > >>>>>>> when you have ideal conditions and one can eat relatively healthy > >>>>>>> and exercise, it is difficult to maintain a good weight. Our > >>>>>>> lifestyle does not match our evolution. We were designed to have > >>>>>>> very active lifestyles. Unfortunately, especially for those of us > >>>>>>> in non-laborer positions, we don't have the time to get the > exercise > >> we > >>>>> really need. > >>>>>>> So I would definitely say yes to both, depending on the situation. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Eric > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>> From: Michael Grant [mailto:mgr...@modus.bz] > >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 6:31 PM > >>>>>>> To: cf-community > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: Obesity in Children > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Are you just trying to illustrate that it's not easy to stay at a > >>>>>>> proper weight? Or are you saying we're powerless to stop obesity? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On 2012-01-28, at 7:00 PM, "Eric Roberts" > >>>>>>> <ow...@threeravensconsulting.com > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> The big problem is that foods that are cheap tend to have a lot of > >>>>>>>> stuff in them that are bad for you. That is a big factor in > >> obesity. > >>>>>>>> Many of the ingredients, like HFCS have been shown to make you > >>>>>>>> gain weight. Other factors also get into it...things like thyroid > >>>>>>>> disease, diabetes, etc...and the drugs that people take to combat > >>>>>>>> these diseses also contribute to weight gain. I have diabetes. > >>>>>>>> Most of the oral meds I take have weight gain as a side effect. > >>>>>>>> Insulin also increase weight gain since when you have higher > >>>>>>>> insulin levels, your body will start to store glucose as fat since > >>>>>>>> it thinks that, because of the elevated insulin levels, that there > >>>>>>>> is an abundance of glucose in your blood. Hypothyroidism, which > >>>>>>>> is pretty common, also adds to weight gain as it lowers your > >>>>> metabolism. > >>>>>>>> Pretty much any disorder of the pituitary/adrenal system will > >>>>>>>> cause weight gain. Much of this is caused by some of the > >>>>>>>> contaminats in our foods, like mercury and heavy > >>>>>>> metals. So even if you have a healthy diet and exercise, you may > >>>>>>> not lose weight. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>> From: Medic [mailto:hofme...@gmail.com] > >>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 5:10 PM > >>>>>>>> To: cf-community > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Obesity in Children > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Let me reverse that then D. What percentage of obese people in > >>>>>>>> North America can attribute their physical condition to handicaps? > >>>>>>>> Is it a significant enough number to disregard a common sense > >>>>>>>> approach of eat right (ie. lots of veggies, not much fried or > >>>>>>>> processed food) and exercise? If it is, then I'll happily > >>>>>>>> apologize for insinuating that the epidemic of obesity is largely > >>>>> self-inflicted and preventable. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 5:56 PM, Dana <dana.tier...@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> really? How do you know if someone is handicapped? Lots of > >>>>>>>>> debilitating conditions won't put you in a wheelchair. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 2:52 PM, Medic <hofme...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Right... the exceptions to the rule, which has nothing to do > >>>>>>>>>> with the > >>>>>>>>> other > >>>>>>>>>> 99.9% of obese people. :) > >>>>>>>>>> I don't think anyone is bagging on overweight handicapped > people. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 5:48 PM, Eric Roberts < > >>>>>>>>>> ow...@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Don't forget those who cannot exercise or cannot exercise > >>>>>>>>>>> sufficiently > >>>>>>>>>> due > >>>>>>>>>>> to disabilities. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>>>>> From: Dana [mailto:dana.tier...@gmail.com] > >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 4:16 PM > >>>>>>>>>>> To: cf-community > >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Obesity in Children > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> it's only a part of the problem, and only for some people, is > >>>>>>>>>>> all I am saying. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Someone who *used* to eat too much, or gained weight for some > >>>>>>>>>>> other > >>>>>>>>>> reason, > >>>>>>>>>>> may have quite a good diet, which is keeping them from gaining > >>>>>>>>>>> more but > >>>>>>>>>> not > >>>>>>>>>>> causing them to lose the extra they have. I think you pretty > >>>>>>>>>>> much have > >>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>>> exercise, and perhaps strenuously, to lose significant weight > >>>>>>>>>>> and keep > >>>>>>>>> it > >>>>>>>>>>> off. I for one lost about forty pounds in the past year, but I > >>>>>>>>>>> was > >>>>>>>>> quite > >>>>>>>>>>> sick for a while and didn't eat much and what I did eat was > raw. > >>>>>>>>>>> That's fine, and I've been able to keep it off, but you can't > >>>>>>>>>>> eat all fruit > >>>>>>>>> all > >>>>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>>> the time and stay healthy. Before that, when I asked doctors, I > >>>>>>>>>>> got different advice. Don't worry about carbs - just avoid fat. > >>>>>>>>>>> Cut back on carbs. Eat nothing but protein, and don't worry too > >>>>>>>>>>> much > >>>>>>>> about the fat. > >>>>>>>>>>> Count calories. Don't count calories, you'll make yourself > >>>>>>>>>>> crazy > >>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>> just > >>>>>>>>>>> eat > >>>>>>>>>>> right. Like I don't. I probably have better cholesterol numbers > >>>>>>>>>>> than > >>>>>>>>>> anyone > >>>>>>>>>>> on this list ;) > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> So.... I thought three times before getting into this, because > >>>>>>>>>>> I didn't want to sound defensive, or like I was making excuses, > >>>>>>>>>>> but this isn't really about me. I have more weight to lose and > >>>>>>>>>>> am pretty sure that for me the > >>>>>>>>>> key > >>>>>>>>>>> will be increasing my activity level, but I don't think that's > >>>>>>>>>>> the case > >>>>>>>>>> for > >>>>>>>>>>> everyone. My mother was a yo-yo dieter and crash programs > >>>>>>>>>>> certainly > >>>>>>>>>> didn't > >>>>>>>>>>> work for her, and she did religiously swim three or four times > >>>>>>>>>>> a week > >>>>>>>>> for > >>>>>>>>>>> years. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> People gain weight for different reasons. The ones who gain > >>>>>>>>>>> because > >>>>>>>>> they > >>>>>>>>>>> eat > >>>>>>>>>>> too much eat too much for different reasons. There are people > >>>>>>>>>>> who have thyroid problems and people who just don't exercise. > >>>>>>>>>>> One size does not > >>>>>>>>>> fit > >>>>>>>>>>> all, is what I am saying. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 1:37 PM, PT <cft...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Which is where simply pushing away from the table comes in :) > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> See? Not ignorant at all. 2/3 accurate. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/28/2012 4:08 PM, Medic wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> The other two legs of the > >>>>>>>>>>>>> stool though haven't changed since as long as I can remember. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Reasonable portions and routine exercise. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/message.cfm/messageid:346151 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/unsubscribe.cfm
