My take on this is the following. A company will typically make a
decision based on what you know. If as a result of your studying, you
have learned enough to make it through whatever technical grilling is
applied at the interview, you probably will get the job. Most times,
experience will be preferred, certification is just a measuring stick.
Someone could say,"I have 5 years experience with networking", but until
you as a potential employer find out more, you do not know if that 5 years
was spent supporting control panel challenged users or routers. Someone
with a cert and no experience will have a hard time getting more than an
entry level gig.
Brian Whalen
On Sat, 17 Mar 2001, EA Louie wrote:
> Dar - I understand your reasoning, and it IS true - USUALLY, the certified
> guys have a better knowledge base and therefore catch on quicker.
>
> The real issue that is being addressed here is the true value of the
> certification...those experienced network engineers who are in the job
> already and getting certified feel threatened by the folks who are studying
> and achieving the certs with no experience or minimal experience, and
> marketing themselves as CCNP or CCDP. Its the same problem as the initial
> CNE's and MCSE's faced - but the value of the certification goes up for the
> CCXX's because *MOST* employers are asking for "CCNP and 4 years of
> experience", so they're qualifying their need for the certification. Either
> that, or I've seen ads that say "5 years of networking experience with
> <cisco, bay, foundry, 3Com>, CCNP preferable but not required"
>
> And of course, the one cert that separates most everyone is the CCIE - it's
> VERY difficult (some say impossible, but I wouldn't go that far) to obtain a
> CCIE with no working experience.
>
> -e-
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: EA Louie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2001 6:52 PM
> Subject: RE: Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX
>
>
> > wot i would like to say for certs that they give you a strong base. If you
> > are a CCNP and CCDP you know a lot more then some guy working, but if you
> > havnt worked you are not comfortable with the equipment. So its just that
> > its easier to train a guy whos certified compared to someone who isnt. And
> > its not wise to expect that a CCNP/CCDP should be knowing everything, and
> i
> > think if they are given a chance they might do better then others.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> > EA Louie
> > Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2001 6:41 AM
> > To: Mike Davis; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX
> >
> >
> > some of the certs are like getting a "paper diploma" (which is what I
> got...
> > heheheh) So, if they are going to take the risk and study for the cert on
> > the hopes that they can get a job using the cert as leverage, more power
> to
> > them!
> >
> > By virtue of the testing mechanism, the CCNA/CCNP/CCDA/CCDP will be
> > attainable by studying. I work with one now, who has both a CCNP and
> CCDP,
> > but couldn't reload an erased flash on a 2600 series router... go figure.
> I
> > was very tempted to ask, "What are those certs really for?", but I just
> > smiled and helped him reload the flash from a tftp server using rommon.
> (By
> > the way, the variables in rommon on a 2600 are case sensitive :-)
> >
> > When I first started working in industry after earning my degree, my boss
> > put me together with a technician who had no degree, but tons of
> experience.
> > The tech rolled his eyes when he met me and said, "Great...I gotta train
> > ANOTHER engineer". What he didn't count on was that I'd learn how to do
> his
> > job, not to his skill level (he had 10+ years in the industry), but good
> > enough so that he'd trust me to do the work if he wasn't around. I kind
> of
> > feel like him, now... a non-certified "packet jockey" that has to train
> > these certified, "paper trained", network "engineers".
> >
> > I interviewed a guy the other day and asked him, "Why do you want to get
> > Cisco certified?". He said, because he wanted to be a network engineer
> and
> > learn how to read/interpret Cisco configurations. When I asked him "Why
> do
> > you want to be a network engineer?", his reason was pretty weak (but I'd
> > guess he'd have said "the money" if I pressed him).
> >
> > The havoc I could wreak on these guys with policy routing, access-groups,
> > NAT, and route maps... heheheheh...<evil grin>
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Mike Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2001 3:51 PM
> > Subject: Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX
> >
> >
> > > I will probably get yelled at for this one but...
> > >
> > > I am a CCNA, CCDA, CCNP, and yes going after the CCIE.
> > > So up front I am not against certs.
> > >
> > > I am becoming aware of more and more people becoming
> > > Cisco certified and not know enough to go and actually
> > > do the work. Our company has and is interviewing for
> > > network folks, I have the opportunity to interview
> > > these people to verify technical experience. I have
> > > had CCNA, CCNP, and yes even CCIE written folks who
> > > could not tell me what they 'should' acutally know.
> > >
> > >
> > > This scares me because I am also working hard toward
> > > my certs and the CCIE. But it has been proven and is
> > > showing up more that these people are becoming "paper"
> > > Cisco folks, as in the paper MCSE.
> > >
> > > I know and hope the CCIE LAB and title will remain as
> > > difficult if not more so in the future. I for one do
> > > not want to spend a year of my life gaining the CCIE
> > > title to be one among thousands who also have it.
> > >
> > > That is my insite and hope Cisco will
> > > try to make it more difficult to obtain the CCNP/DP
> > > and not become another MCSE program.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
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> > >
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