Manoj - that is exactly the point that everyone is making.
The certification holds little value unless someone has experience. You
have experience. Not with Cisco, but with the underlying technologies. The
interviewers (like myself) look for experience. Most companies are only
interested in hiring or talking to people with the exact product experience
that is needed in their environment. YOUR certification proves that you
could PROBABLY do the job for a target company.
I don't remember saying EXPERIENCE WITH CISCO ROUTERS. I have always
indicated network operations experience, or telecom ops, or network
engineering.
As far as the motive for people getting certified or working as a network
engineer, that is a different topic completely. The original poster (Mike
Davis) was merely expressing his concern for the perceived lack of value of
the certifications as they begin to enter the market...and how some of these
certified people could not design themselves out of a paper bag, much less
configure a router properly.
-e-
----- Original Message -----
From: Manoj Sekhar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2001 9:41 PM
Subject: Re: Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX
> Hi all,
>
> I am really getting fed up with this discussion of paper certification. I
read one mail
> saying that while interviewing some one, the candidate said that he
wanted to become a
> network engineer for better pay. Is the this guy became a network engineer
for serving
> the company and people? Everybody here is trying to make more money for
them self and
> their family to have a better life by getting better qualified and
knowledgeable. The
> certification and study groups and all are only the means for that. First
accept this
> truth.
>
> About being paper certified, I am an engineer with more than 8 years
experience in
> networking field, but unfortunately I am working with a company who is not
dealing with
> routers or cisco equipment's. I have experience in modems, muxes, ISDN
equipment's, and
> supports wide area networks. Now are anyone of you, who is talking about
paper
> certification ready to give me a job even at the entry level to work on
cisco routers if
> I present myself as of now without certifications? I did tried and I
didn't even got an
> interview call. Now I have some certification and some experience, at
least I am getting
> some interviews. What I feel is that the certifications shows that the guy
knows how
> this stuff works and some idea of how to make it work. It doesn't mean
that he knows in
> and out of anything. Then it also shows that he is willing to learn and he
can pick up
> things fast.
>
> Don't think that since you have 10 years experience and the other guy
doesn't means the
> other guy doesn't worth anything. He may be able to do things which you
can't and he may
> know things that you don't know. Try to share the knowledge and help him.
Without giving
> a chance, how anyone going to learn?
>
> Sorry if I hurt anybody's feelings but it doesn't feel write to blame
guy's like me for
> not having experience. We are trying to get experience and we selected the
path to get
> there through certification. Since we got certification we don't claim
that we are
> better than a guy with experience. We just want to show that we can learn
if you give us
> a chance.
>
> regards,
> Manoj.
>
> EA Louie wrote:
>
> > some of the certs are like getting a "paper diploma" (which is what I
got...
> > heheheh) So, if they are going to take the risk and study for the cert
on
> > the hopes that they can get a job using the cert as leverage, more power
to
> > them!
> >
> > By virtue of the testing mechanism, the CCNA/CCNP/CCDA/CCDP will be
> > attainable by studying. I work with one now, who has both a CCNP and
CCDP,
> > but couldn't reload an erased flash on a 2600 series router... go
figure. I
> > was very tempted to ask, "What are those certs really for?", but I just
> > smiled and helped him reload the flash from a tftp server using rommon.
(By
> > the way, the variables in rommon on a 2600 are case sensitive :-)
> >
> > When I first started working in industry after earning my degree, my
boss
> > put me together with a technician who had no degree, but tons of
experience.
> > The tech rolled his eyes when he met me and said, "Great...I gotta train
> > ANOTHER engineer". What he didn't count on was that I'd learn how to do
his
> > job, not to his skill level (he had 10+ years in the industry), but good
> > enough so that he'd trust me to do the work if he wasn't around. I kind
of
> > feel like him, now... a non-certified "packet jockey" that has to train
> > these certified, "paper trained", network "engineers".
> >
> > I interviewed a guy the other day and asked him, "Why do you want to get
> > Cisco certified?". He said, because he wanted to be a network engineer
and
> > learn how to read/interpret Cisco configurations. When I asked him "Why
do
> > you want to be a network engineer?", his reason was pretty weak (but I'd
> > guess he'd have said "the money" if I pressed him).
> >
> > The havoc I could wreak on these guys with policy routing,
access-groups,
> > NAT, and route maps... heheheheh...<evil grin>
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Mike Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2001 3:51 PM
> > Subject: Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX
> >
> > > I will probably get yelled at for this one but...
> > >
> > > I am a CCNA, CCDA, CCNP, and yes going after the CCIE.
> > > So up front I am not against certs.
> > >
> > > I am becoming aware of more and more people becoming
> > > Cisco certified and not know enough to go and actually
> > > do the work. Our company has and is interviewing for
> > > network folks, I have the opportunity to interview
> > > these people to verify technical experience. I have
> > > had CCNA, CCNP, and yes even CCIE written folks who
> > > could not tell me what they 'should' acutally know.
> > >
> > >
> > > This scares me because I am also working hard toward
> > > my certs and the CCIE. But it has been proven and is
> > > showing up more that these people are becoming "paper"
> > > Cisco folks, as in the paper MCSE.
> > >
> > > I know and hope the CCIE LAB and title will remain as
> > > difficult if not more so in the future. I for one do
> > > not want to spend a year of my life gaining the CCIE
> > > title to be one among thousands who also have it.
> > >
> > > That is my insite and hope Cisco will
> > > try to make it more difficult to obtain the CCNP/DP
> > > and not become another MCSE program.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> > > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> > >
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