We are really sick and tired of hearing such stories. Get a life.
"Circusnuts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
043d01c0af98$4db87d40$[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:043d01c0af98$4db87d40$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> First things first- these E-mails back & forth represent a "preaching to
the
> choir" scenario. Only the study-ers busy expanding their repartee read,
> participate, & clean out their mailboxes for the benifits of this list.
If
> we're wanting to speak to the people who are only passing tests, doing a
> mediocre job @ best, & debug live Enterprise equipment- again this ain't
the
> place :o)
>
> This topic frustrates me too. I'm very professional, study a lot, & I
don't
> show up to a jobs looking like I just left the gym or use the customer's
> site time to figure out what I'm doing. If your conscientious, do good
> work, & don't fall asleep @ the wheel as to where you should be working or
> what technology you should know- you'll always beat the TCP Magazine
salary
> $$$.
>
> Phil
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Manoj Sekhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2001 3:41 AM
> Subject: Re: Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX
>
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I am really getting fed up with this discussion of paper certification.
I
> read one mail
> > saying that while interviewing some one, the candidate said that he
> wanted to become a
> > network engineer for better pay. Is the this guy became a network
engineer
> for serving
> > the company and people? Everybody here is trying to make more money for
> them self and
> > their family to have a better life by getting better qualified and
> knowledgeable. The
> > certification and study groups and all are only the means for that.
First
> accept this
> > truth.
> >
> > About being paper certified, I am an engineer with more than 8 years
> experience in
> > networking field, but unfortunately I am working with a company who is
not
> dealing with
> > routers or cisco equipment's. I have experience in modems, muxes, ISDN
> equipment's, and
> > supports wide area networks. Now are anyone of you, who is talking about
> paper
> > certification ready to give me a job even at the entry level to work on
> cisco routers if
> > I present myself as of now without certifications? I did tried and I
> didn't even got an
> > interview call. Now I have some certification and some experience, at
> least I am getting
> > some interviews. What I feel is that the certifications shows that the
guy
> knows how
> > this stuff works and some idea of how to make it work. It doesn't mean
> that he knows in
> > and out of anything. Then it also shows that he is willing to learn and
he
> can pick up
> > things fast.
> >
> > Don't think that since you have 10 years experience and the other guy
> doesn't means the
> > other guy doesn't worth anything. He may be able to do things which you
> can't and he may
> > know things that you don't know. Try to share the knowledge and help
him.
> Without giving
> > a chance, how anyone going to learn?
> >
> > Sorry if I hurt anybody's feelings but it doesn't feel write to blame
> guy's like me for
> > not having experience. We are trying to get experience and we selected
the
> path to get
> > there through certification. Since we got certification we don't claim
> that we are
> > better than a guy with experience. We just want to show that we can
learn
> if you give us
> > a chance.
> >
> > regards,
> > Manoj.
> >
> > EA Louie wrote:
> >
> > > some of the certs are like getting a "paper diploma" (which is what I
> got...
> > > heheheh) So, if they are going to take the risk and study for the
cert
> on
> > > the hopes that they can get a job using the cert as leverage, more
power
> to
> > > them!
> > >
> > > By virtue of the testing mechanism, the CCNA/CCNP/CCDA/CCDP will be
> > > attainable by studying. I work with one now, who has both a CCNP and
> CCDP,
> > > but couldn't reload an erased flash on a 2600 series router... go
> figure. I
> > > was very tempted to ask, "What are those certs really for?", but I
just
> > > smiled and helped him reload the flash from a tftp server using
rommon.
> (By
> > > the way, the variables in rommon on a 2600 are case sensitive :-)
> > >
> > > When I first started working in industry after earning my degree, my
> boss
> > > put me together with a technician who had no degree, but tons of
> experience.
> > > The tech rolled his eyes when he met me and said, "Great...I gotta
train
> > > ANOTHER engineer". What he didn't count on was that I'd learn how to
do
> his
> > > job, not to his skill level (he had 10+ years in the industry), but
good
> > > enough so that he'd trust me to do the work if he wasn't around. I
kind
> of
> > > feel like him, now... a non-certified "packet jockey" that has to
train
> > > these certified, "paper trained", network "engineers".
> > >
> > > I interviewed a guy the other day and asked him, "Why do you want to
get
> > > Cisco certified?". He said, because he wanted to be a network
engineer
> and
> > > learn how to read/interpret Cisco configurations. When I asked him
"Why
> do
> > > you want to be a network engineer?", his reason was pretty weak (but
I'd
> > > guess he'd have said "the money" if I pressed him).
> > >
> > > The havoc I could wreak on these guys with policy routing,
> access-groups,
> > > NAT, and route maps... heheheheh...<evil grin>
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Mike Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2001 3:51 PM
> > > Subject: Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX
> > >
> > > > I will probably get yelled at for this one but...
> > > >
> > > > I am a CCNA, CCDA, CCNP, and yes going after the CCIE.
> > > > So up front I am not against certs.
> > > >
> > > > I am becoming aware of more and more people becoming
> > > > Cisco certified and not know enough to go and actually
> > > > do the work. Our company has and is interviewing for
> > > > network folks, I have the opportunity to interview
> > > > these people to verify technical experience. I have
> > > > had CCNA, CCNP, and yes even CCIE written folks who
> > > > could not tell me what they 'should' acutally know.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > This scares me because I am also working hard toward
> > > > my certs and the CCIE. But it has been proven and is
> > > > showing up more that these people are becoming "paper"
> > > > Cisco folks, as in the paper MCSE.
> > > >
> > > > I know and hope the CCIE LAB and title will remain as
> > > > difficult if not more so in the future. I for one do
> > > > not want to spend a year of my life gaining the CCIE
> > > > title to be one among thousands who also have it.
> > > >
> > > > That is my insite and hope Cisco will
> > > > try to make it more difficult to obtain the CCNP/DP
> > > > and not become another MCSE program.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> > > > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________
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