it seems odd too start with a statement that there is a mailing list without any idea why the person cares. That is why my suggestions started with the person’s need, not with the bare fact of the mailing list.
People are likely to skip over that whole paragraph after they scan “This project has a use mailing list…”. The first few words are by far the most important. Again, I strongly suggest starting with "If you want help or have a feature idea…” wunder Walter Underwood wun...@wunderwood.org http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog) > On Sep 24, 2021, at 12:57 AM, Adrien Grand <jpou...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Infra helped me change the message > <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-22353> yesterday, thanks for the > discussion on this thread. > > +1 on your PR to the project's README. > > The problem I saw with Jira recently - and I acknowledge that there might be > a bias - is that users had read our HowToContribute guide already, which > suggests opening a Jira. But then Jira told these contributors to go to the > mailing-list first before we updated the message. I like the idea of linking > HowToContribute from the perspective that it would be welcoming and encourage > contributions, but it would increase the amount of text that you have to read > when using Jira yet the anecdotal evidence I have is that these contributors > were already familiar with the HowToContribute since it is the thing that led > them to Jira in the first place. No strong feelings, I could be convinced > otherwise but wanted to give this perspective. > > On Thu, Sep 23, 2021 at 7:41 PM Greg Miller <gsmil...@gmail.com > <mailto:gsmil...@gmail.com>> wrote: > Hi Adrien- that's totally fair. There are probably better places for > the additional content I'm proposing. A couple things along these > lines: > > 1. Do you think it would be worth linking this guide from the JIRA > message (maybe after updating it)? > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/lucene/HowToContribute > <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/lucene/HowToContribute>. It > could be a nice hook for new users to learn more (and it's what we > link from our README). Maybe it would make the message too long > though? > 2. I just put up a very brief PR to add my proposed "friendly message" > to the README before linking off to the above-mentioned guide: > https://github.com/apache/lucene/pull/318 > <https://github.com/apache/lucene/pull/318>. > > Back to your original proposal though, I'll add my +1 as I think it's > a big improvement from the current messaging. Thanks for bringing this > up! > > Cheers, > -Greg > > On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 9:23 AM Walter Underwood <wun...@wunderwood.org > <mailto:wun...@wunderwood.org>> wrote: > > > > Hmm. How is this? It is a single longer sentence, but essentially a string > > of simple ones. > > > > If you want help or have a feature idea, please ask on the mailing list or > > IRC channel before submitting a Jira issue. > > > > wunder > > Walter Underwood > > wun...@wunderwood.org <mailto:wun...@wunderwood.org> > > http://observer.wunderwood.org/ <http://observer.wunderwood.org/> (my blog) > > > > On Sep 22, 2021, at 9:18 AM, Adrien Grand <jpou...@gmail.com > > <mailto:jpou...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > Greg, I understand and agree with the intent, but I also would like to keep > > this as short as possible since the screen to create a new issue in JIRA is > > already quite intimidating with all its text boxes, and the current version > > is already taking two lines even though it's short. Maybe this is the sort > > of thing that we could try to better emphasize in our project's README? > > > > On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 6:07 PM Walter Underwood <wun...@wunderwood.org > > <mailto:wun...@wunderwood.org>> wrote: > >> > >> Two excellent points. So it could be: > >> > >> Are you looking for support for Lucene? Have you seen unexpected behavior? > >> Have an idea for a new feature or improvement? Please ask for help on the > >> Lucene user mailing list or the IRC channel. If it is a new problem or > >> idea, then you can submit a Jira issue. > >> > >> wunder > >> Walter Underwood > >> wun...@wunderwood.org <mailto:wun...@wunderwood.org> > >> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ <http://observer.wunderwood.org/> (my > >> blog) > >> > >> On Sep 22, 2021, at 6:38 AM, Greg Miller <gsmil...@gmail.com > >> <mailto:gsmil...@gmail.com>> wrote: > >> > >> Love this idea! > >> > >> I wonder if there's a way to make the messaging clear that ideas for > >> new features/improvements are also always welcome? When I read the > >> current language, I interpret it as bug reporting. Maybe adding a > >> leading sentence would help? > >> > >> ``` > >> Bug reports, improvements and new feature ideas are always welcome! > >> Please note, this project has a user mailing list and an IRC channel > >> for support. If you are looking for support, or if you are not sure > >> whether the behavior that you are observing is expected or not, please > >> discuss it there first. > >> ``` > >> > >> Cheers, > >> -Greg > >> > >> On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 5:35 AM Adrien Grand <jpou...@gmail.com > >> <mailto:jpou...@gmail.com>> wrote: > >> > >> > >> Hi Walter, > >> > >> Though it doesn't invalidate your comment, I was considering changing the > >> message only for the Lucene JIRA, at least for now. > >> > >> On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 5:08 PM Walter Underwood <wun...@wunderwood.org > >> <mailto:wun...@wunderwood.org>> wrote: > >> > >> > >> Here is one with shorter, less complex sentences and clear calls to action. > >> > >> Are you looking for support for Solr? Have you seen unexpected behavior? > >> Please ask for help on the Solr user mailing list or the IRC channel. If > >> it is a new problem, then you can submit a Jira issue. > >> > >> wunder > >> Walter Underwood > >> wun...@wunderwood.org <mailto:wun...@wunderwood.org> > >> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ <http://observer.wunderwood.org/> (my > >> blog) > >> > >> On Sep 21, 2021, at 12:23 AM, Adrien Grand <jpou...@gmail.com > >> <mailto:jpou...@gmail.com>> wrote: > >> > >> I think you made a good point, Alexandre. Would something like this read > >> better: > >> > >> ``` > >> This project has a user mailing list and an IRC channel for support. If > >> you are looking for support, or if you are not sure whether the behavior > >> that you are observing is expected or not, please discuss it there first. > >> ``` > >> > >> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 2:22 PM Alexandre Rafalovitch <arafa...@gmail.com > >> <mailto:arafa...@gmail.com>> wrote: > >> > >> > >> +1. > >> Ideally, the final version could still be several shorter sentences. To > >> avoid needing to be a programmer to parse the deeply nested, if totally > >> logical, structure. > >> > >> On Mon., Sep. 20, 2021, 4:33 a.m. Adrien Grand, <jpou...@gmail.com > >> <mailto:jpou...@gmail.com>> wrote: > >> > >> > >> Hello, > >> > >> Jira gives the following note when opening an issue: > >> > >> ``` > >> This project has a user mailing list and an IRC channel for support. > >> Please ensure that you have discussed your problem using one of those > >> resources BEFORE creating this ticket. > >> ``` > >> > >> This can be quite intimidating for someone who has never worked with us > >> before, and we don't apply this logic for ourselves, for instance I feel > >> free to open JIRAs without discussing them first on IRC or dev@l.a.o. > >> Given that we are not seeing much irrelevant traffic on JIRA, I'd like to > >> soften the message to something like below: > >> > >> ``` > >> If you are looking for support, or if you are not sure whether the > >> behavior that you are observing is expected or not, please discuss your > >> problem on the user mailing-list instead before creating a ticket. > >> ``` > >> > >> What do you think? > >> > >> -- > >> Adrien > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Adrien > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Adrien > >> > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@lucene.apache.org > >> <mailto:dev-unsubscr...@lucene.apache.org> > >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@lucene.apache.org > >> <mailto:dev-h...@lucene.apache.org> > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Adrien > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@lucene.apache.org > <mailto:dev-unsubscr...@lucene.apache.org> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@lucene.apache.org > <mailto:dev-h...@lucene.apache.org> > > > > -- > Adrien
