On Nov 13, 2007 5:45 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > That last email: > > > > ............ > > > so what you want is me to simply say "yes yes - do whatever you > > > want" > > ........... > > > > No, I want you to put on a big "E" logo outfit and dance around > > and the next/first e "rave". But that's just me. > > > > Anyway, let's leave this. Concentrate instead on making all > > those things you say you want "E" to become - happen. > > was supposed to go to raster, not the list! > > I'll leave it at that. :) >
Hello guys, This is a general response to this discussion between Jose and Raster. As I have talked to both, a lot, about this matter, I'm starting to develop a feel to the true issue here. Say someone starts writing these patches for Evas. They send them to the list. The patches have major internal changes, and might have API breaks and additions. Who's going to look at those and decide how to handle them? Are they good? Are they bad? Should they be done differently, etc. Jose wants the community to be involved much more than it is now. Raster keeps saying people are free. But the reality of things is, as it stands, some issues can only be resolved by Raster. Why? Several reasons. First of all, some of the code we have (specially Evas) is only maintained by one or two people, sometimes only one. The rest of the developers, although being knowledgeable about the code in general, are not concerned with that part itself. At this point, the responsibility is automatically put on one person, in particular, Raster. I can hear Jose saying "thats the core of the problem". Thats true, it is the core. Other developers are either not willing to spend the time, or simply are not involved directly with the code (since as it stands, a lot of the discussion is based on the fact that the core libraries need to be changed, rethought, redesigned, split up, and worked out so they support a real modern development environment that is community centric more than what we have now). Jose has been constantly pushing for more involvement, and from moving away from a single point (person) for decision making. Raster has been constantly saying people are free to do whatever they want as long as there's a general agreement. So what is the problem here really? Say we want to redesign Evas, Edje, and Ecore (split it up). Suppose we want more tools that help developers use the EFL in an easier way, something closer to a modern development platform rather than simply looking through header files and writing out code. Suppose we want to to do all what Jose says (better community interaction, move away from just "having E" as this window manager project that can not grow beyond that, providing a development platform), and suppose we also want to do what Raster says (where people are free to do what they want as long as its good for the project, no central point of failure, etc), whats stopping us? The perfect example, and answer, to this never ending debate is Jorge (turran)'s Enesim. Jorge was tired of a lot of limitations and design issues he found in Evas, and decided to do something about it, the right way. He started with some designs, forked out some code, started discussing it on the mailing list, and as soon as it worked well, he added it to cvs for the developers and community to watch, play with, and work on. Now when Enesim is ready for prime time, and Jorge says it can start helping Evas do a better job, who's gonna integrate it? Jorge can keep talking about it forever. Raster can keep saying "its good, work on it, integrate it" for ever (he wont do it, he doesnt have the time, nor is it his code, so it will take even more time). The only way its going to happen is if Jorge himself does it, or if Jorge can raise enough interest for someone else to do it. I think Jorge, with the help of others (or not), will end up doing it. The point here is, if you see something wrong, and you want to change it, talk about it, provide proof / solid issues of why its wrong, and take the first (few) steps into correcting it. Jose can keep on talking forever. Raster can keep on answering forever, and we can keep reading their discussion forever, and it will be the same with everyone and everything else. Unless people make a first move (and a second, third, and fourth move) it will all be talk in the air. Prove yourself right by showing that you're working and have something for the community, and prove that the freedom exists (or doesnt) by sending this work and asking for changes to be done based on it. If people keep talking, but they don't have anything to offer, they should stop bothering (unless they are preachers and never intended to do any real work). If work is offered, and Raster rejects it based on no real argument that is agreed upon by the major number of people involved in the project, then we know Raster is a hypocrite. Just work, make your work available, and then decide if this project is going to change based on that. -- Hisham Mardam Bey http://hisham.cc/ +1-514-713-9312 Codito Ergo Sum (I Code Therefore I Am) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ _______________________________________________ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
