On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 10:26 PM, Carsten Haitzler <ras...@rasterman.com>wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 21:49:46 -0500 Youness Alaoui > <kakar...@kakaroto.homelinux.net> said: > > WE were asked to generate the tarballs. WE... not him. if he wants > tarballs he > can make them himself. i would never have said no. i can't and won't stop > him - > he can make the tarballs all he likes! but WE were asked to make them. that > means one of us - presumably me, has to generate them UPLOAD them and then > TELL > SOMEONE they are uploaded and exist! if HE wants tarballs and wants to > build > them himself.. absolutely. go ahead! by all means! he can also just use > make > dist which is simpler. but that isn't what was asked for. > 1 - read what I wrote, I said that for now he used the script, until the script gets put on a server on which I don't have access 2 - why "presumably me" ? > > > I haven't proven your point, I don't see where I did. On the contrary, I > > proved that you can create a simple script that does it. Who asked for > any > > announcements? who even asked for uploads? The guy used my script to > > generate the tarballs from svn on his own machine and then used the > > tarballs in his build system and was happy about it. Ideally, the script > > should run on a server in a cron job and copy the files to a publically > > available directory, I'm not uploading the files because I don't have > > access to such server. But that is outside the scope of what was asked, I > > helped him get what he wanted, he's happy about it, he'll continue > porting > > to BSD or whatever he wants to do with it. In the end, we didn't lose a > > contributor, and that's the final goal that was reached (who btw said > that > > he got demotivated after talking to you because of the way you spoke). > > Of course, it's less useful than a make distcheck, that's why an actual > > build system would be needed for continuous integration checks, but that > is > > besides the point. They wanted a tarball, I provided a tarball, nothing > > more, nothing less. > > Stop assuming what the other person wants, and then make judgment calls > on > > what you think they may or may not want. That's not how you can build > your > > community, by closing all doors in the face of everyone who wants to > help. > > dude... did you READ AT ALL WHAT VTORRI ASKED FOR? my god! you really want > to > just run around with your opinions without ever reading the facts. they > asked > to HAVE daily snapshots. they aren't asking how THEY can do it themselves. > they > are asking for them to BE done for them. you OFFERED an alternative. > > man - YOU demotivate ME. your snide comments, grandstanding on your soapbox > without ever bothering to READ the discussion or facts at hand - which you > very > clearly didn't bother to read, or your understanding of english is not so > great. when someone asks to have snapshots - they ask for tarballs, which > need > to be generated and uploaded. we can generate them on the server, but a > cron > job is no better than a random svn checkout done by them. if you READ the > emails and READ the irc discussion you might have the facts. > > on email i asked what's so hard about svn. on irc i got the response that > they > have no idea when to svn checkout because they don't know if it works or > not. > put that together with a cron job either done by them OR us is the same > thing. > nothing has improved. > > pointless email as you're simply not reading the actual content. > you don't seem to read what I wrote, you ignore the facts.. the facts are not the commits or how bad they were, the facts were your attitude and condescending bullshit. but yeah,you don't seem to be able to acknowledge that, since you're perfect and everyone else is wrong. Thank you Vincent and Gustavo for sharing your concerns about this, and it's too sad that the new contributor has become another victim of raster's poor social skills. That's what I wanted to avoid, that's what I wanted raster to understand, and I was hoping for him to reply with something like "sorry if I offended you, that wasn't my purpose" and that's it, the guy stays with us, but I guess raster has too much pride and is too self-centered to recognize his own faults. I think I will follow Vincent's advice and not reply to this thread anymore, raster clearly showed he has no comprehension of what people are trying to tell him here, so this is just an endless drama with no possible resolution. > > > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:30 PM, Carsten Haitzler <ras...@rasterman.com > >wrote: > > > > > On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 15:55:46 -0500 Youness Alaoui > > > <kakar...@kakaroto.homelinux.net> said: > > > > > > so you've basically proven my point - it's the same as an svn > checkout... > > > and > > > that script still doesn't upload them, or make any announcement that > they > > > have > > > been created. it's actually less useful than make distc (or distcheck) > and > > > much > > > longer. there is no quality checking there... and which point it's > > > busywork. > > > > > > > Here, I just wrote a script : > > > > > > > > http://svn.enlightenment.org/svn/e/trunk/devs/kakaroto/create_tarballs.sh > > > > > > > > It defaults to building tarballs for eina eet evas ecore embryo edje > > > efreet > > > > e_dbus eeze (list suggested by Vincent), but you can specify any > libs you > > > > want as arguments. > > > > It does the svn export (no .svn dirs) autogens then tars them. I > didn't > > > > make it do a make distcheck because that requires a Makefile, which > > > > requires configure to run, which itself will require dependent > libraries. > > > > This should be enough for the purposes of providing a simple > mechanism (a > > > > tarball) to those who do not want to bother with checking out svn. > > > > If this could go into whatever server as a cron job, and make it > dump the > > > > tarballs to a directory somewhere (and let the web server's indexing > take > > > > care of listing the files), I think that should be enough. > > > > Jonathan, let me know if that's all you need or if you need something > > > else. > > > > And if Carsten was right and you need a guarantee that those > tarballs are > > > > 'tested and stable', then let the answer be "yes", and let's just > assume > > > it > > > > is stable, the code in svn should be stable and we are in feature > freeze > > > > already.. also that's what we all use daily so it should be fine. > > > > > > > > I hope that helps. > > > > Youness. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 2:55 PM, Youness Alaoui < > > > > kakar...@kakaroto.homelinux.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 12:42 PM, Carsten Haitzler > > > > > <ras...@rasterman.com>wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 11:47:32 -0500 Youness Alaoui > > > > >> <kakar...@kakaroto.homelinux.net> said: > > > > >> > > > > >> > Reminds me of some of the stuff I've been saying... > > > > >> > As for "don't have time to do tarballs everyday".. well, that's > why > > > > >> there's > > > > >> > something called "scripts" and "cron jobs".. those things exist, > > > might > > > > >> be > > > > >> > good to use these awesome technologies. > > > > >> > > > > >> hooray for your snide comments. wonderful attitude. you were not > > > there on > > > > >> irc, > > > > >> nor did you even seem to have read the material at hand (the > patches). > > > > >> seriously, what's up with you? > > > > >> > > > > > It wasn't my remarks, it was the remarks from someone who wants to > > > > > contribute to the project and who got offended by the way you > talked to > > > > > him. All I did was point out what I said before in the hopes that > > > you'll > > > > > realize that your own attitude is a problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> do i suddenly have to be mr. nice to everything? "oh wow! how > > > wonderful! > > > > >> so > > > > >> awesome that you broke evas's api on your openbsd packages. so > great > > > to > > > > >> see. > > > > >> we'll love hearing the app developers ask us for help about their > > > apps not > > > > >> working on openbsd, when we will have zero clue that it was an > api/abi > > > > >> breakage > > > > >> added specifically on openbsd. that's just awesome. please - make > more > > > > >> patches > > > > >> just like that!". > > > > >> > > > > >> if its bad, it's bad. reasons were explicitly given for it being > bad. > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > This has nothing to do with the patches, I didn't know there were > > > patches, > > > > > I didn't see any patches, and I don't care about them either. My > point > > > is > > > > > you should learn how to talk to people if you don't want to drive > away > > > all > > > > > the contributors and end up alone in the project. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> and as for "well just use scripts" - have to write and test those > too. > > > > >> and if > > > > >> its just a cron job... then its NO BETTER THAN A RANDOM SVN > CHECKOUT. > > > > >> that was > > > > >> my point... which you failed to read. if you don't sit down and > spend > > > at > > > > >> least > > > > >> some qa time on the tarballs... then its pointless. this is my > point > > > on a > > > > >> mental block. i keep hearing it from people "omg !!!! svn trunk > must > > > be so > > > > >> unstable!!! how can i use it?" - it's the image that just because > its > > > in > > > > >> trunk > > > > >> (or head/master/whatever) that it must be so unstable and a > tarball > > > made > > > > >> every > > > > >> day is going to be better. it's a RELEASE process of freezing and > > > fixing > > > > >> just > > > > >> bugs that improves quality... not "make dist; scp *.tar.gz ...". > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > For you it's no better than a random svn checkout, good, but if > they > > > want > > > > > a tarball, give them a tarball, as for "what if it doesn't build", > > > well it > > > > > should always build, noone should even commit anything without > testing > > > his > > > > > work and making sure it doesn't break anything.. while breakage > does > > > > > happen, it's not something that happens 10 times a day, and it's > still > > > > > fine, if a tarball is fucked, then you can always say "use the one > from > > > > > tomorrow". > > > > > There is a difference between having a build system do a wget and a > > > build > > > > > system do a svn checkout, maybe that's why they need tarballs, so > they > > > > > prepare their build system and when the release is out, they just > > > change > > > > > the URL instead of changing the whole system of downloading the > > > image... > > > > > And it's not about "svn is unstable" mentality, it's about > "tarballs > > > are > > > > > more convenient". > > > > > As for the scripts, no you don't have to write and test those, you > can > > > say > > > > > "ok fine, someone write it and we'll put it on the server as a cron > > > job", > > > > > if noone does write the script for you, then too bad for them, > it's not > > > > > your responsability. If you wanted, I would have made the script > > > myself.. > > > > > we already have a script that creates a svn tarball everyday for > aMSN, > > > you > > > > > could reuse the same script basically, and I could adapt it to the > EFL. > > > > > It's the same as svn? yeah, so what? it's better to help them by > giving > > > > > out the tarball even if it's the same as svn rather than telling > them > > > to > > > > > fuck off. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > if they require tarballs to > > > > >> > > >> test and can't just run svn instead to fetch the source... > i > > > don't > > > > >> have > > > > >> > > the > > > > >> > > >> time each day to make tarballs when they can just as easily > > > fetch > > > > >> from > > > > >> > > svn. > > > > >> > > >> it's the same work on their part. making tarballs is MORE > work > > > on > > > > >> our > > > > >> > > part. > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > You missed the point, we want to be sure that the final > archive > > > > >> will be > > > > >> > > ok. > > > > >> > > > I'm not asking for snapshot on a daily basis, only some rc > > > before > > > > >> the > > > > >> > > > final archive. > > > > >> > > > (Wait no project did alpha & rc, right ?) > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >>> Note that i discuss also with a Mageia e17 maintainer, > and he > > > > >> told me > > > > >> > > that > > > > >> > > >>> such snapshots will help him too. > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> a snapshot has no more quality than an svn checkout, so > other > > > than > > > > >> a > > > > >> > > mental > > > > >> > > >> block thinking svn == totally unstable/unusable and an > > > > >> unwillingness to > > > > >> > > use it > > > > >> > > >> because of a mental block, i don't see the point. > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > yeah a mental block, I think you don't want to know how many > > > time I > > > > >> > > > have to reroll a dist to get all working and how frustating > it > > > is. > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> a release that has had quality assurance done on it is a > > > different > > > > >> > > matter - but > > > > >> > > >> we arent doing them every day. hell no - not with al the > efl > > > trees > > > > >> we > > > > >> > > have. > > > > >> > > >> only chance of that is if we stopped having separate libs > and > > > just > > > > >> > > merged them > > > > >> > > >> into a single efl tree. > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >>> Vincent > > > > >> > > >>> > > > > >> > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > >> > > >>> RSA(R) Conference 2012 > > > > >> > > >>> Save $700 by Nov 18 > > > > >> > > >>> Register now > > > > >> > > >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > > > > >> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > > > >> > > >>> enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > >> > > >>> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > >> > > >>> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > >> > > >>> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> -- > > > > >> > > >> ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" > > > > >> -------------- > > > > >> > > >> The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > >> > > >> RSA(R) Conference 2012 > > > > >> > > >> Save $700 by Nov 18 > > > > >> > > >> Register now > > > > >> > > >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > > > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > >> > > >> enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > >> > > >> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > >> > > >> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > >> > > > RSA(R) Conference 2012 > > > > >> > > > Save $700 by Nov 18 > > > > >> > > > Register now > > > > >> > > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > > > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > >> > > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > >> > > > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > >> > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > -- > > > > >> > > Bruno Dilly > > > > >> > > Senior Developer > > > > >> > > ProFUSION embedded systems > > > > >> > > http://profusion.mobi > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > >> > > RSA(R) Conference 2012 > > > > >> > > Save $700 by Nov 18 > > > > >> > > Register now > > > > >> > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > > > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > > > >> > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > >> > > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > >> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > >> > RSA(R) Conference 2012 > > > > >> > Save $700 by Nov 18 > > > > >> > Register now > > > > >> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > > > >> > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > >> > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > >> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> -- > > > > >> ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" > > > -------------- > > > > >> The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > >> RSA(R) Conference 2012 > > > > >> Save $700 by Nov 18 > > > > >> Register now > > > > >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > >> enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > >> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > RSA(R) Conference 2012 > > > > Save $700 by Nov 18 > > > > Register now > > > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" > -------------- > > > The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com > > > > > > > > > -- > ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -------------- > The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 _______________________________________________ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
