Hello. I have not joined any of these flame wares before as I don't think to change anything significant but only start to hurt peoples feelings for each other. But I had to join here as it started to look like a witch hunt on raster here. Please take a moment when reading this. Thanks for your time.
On Sat, 2011-11-12 at 13:43, Youness Alaoui wrote: > > you don't seem to read what I wrote, you ignore the facts.. the facts are > not the commits or how bad they were, the facts were your attitude and > condescending bullshit. but yeah,you don't seem to be able to acknowledge > that, since you're perfect and everyone else is wrong. Great, personal insults are getting us really forward here. This is one of the social skills you are calling here for. Discussing with others without getting into personal insults. Given this mail and the long rant where you "behaved like a dick" (citation from you) are letting me wonder if you are able to call others for things you do not handle very well on your own. Something to thing about. > Thank you Vincent and Gustavo for sharing your concerns about this, and > it's too sad that the new contributor has become another victim of raster's > poor social skills. That's what I wanted to avoid, that's what I wanted > raster to understand, and I was hoping for him to reply with something like > "sorry if I offended you, that wasn't my purpose" and that's it, the guy > stays with us, but I guess raster has too much pride and is too > self-centered to recognize his own faults. And you wanted that to happen by forcing him into a corner? That is almost always the best recipe to get the opposite of what you wanted. Forcing people trigger over reactions from them. Self protection, naturally for humans. Changing the behaviour of people is a long and exhausting process. Nothing you can do by sending of several mails. And before people even accept what they here from others they need to respect them. Respect them for their doings and ideas they have come up with over time. Again nothing you can achieve in some weeks. > I think I will follow Vincent's advice and not reply to this thread > anymore, raster clearly showed he has no comprehension of what people are > trying to tell him here, so this is just an endless drama with no possible > resolution. Black and white thinking all around. Sadly we live in a grey world. Nothing is only black or only white. Lets have a look at what problems we have here and what possible solutions we can come up with. (That what we should aim for in the end, a solution bringing the project forward). Raster is stressed out. Short on time and running at the edge of what is possible for him all the time. Thats a fact and on of the biggest problems here. Stress calls out on people making hard decisions and one of this is being brusque to others. I have observed this a lot at myself when being in stressful times. Family and friends had the pleasure to get me in such a mood. And even after I recognized this at myself (the first step, you know), it is very hard to change at all. Again, behaviour changes are the hardest. The work part of raster stress we can't influence much. He has to handle this on its own. And I personally hope that he realizes how near he comes a actual burnout if he keeps going like this for more months. But now to the things we can change. You and Gustavo are trying to change this project in a direction that should be more welcoming for developers and users. Making the community grow. I welcome this move, but doing something like this can not happen by bringing everything down that happened so far. Raster brought this all to the point what we have today. Motivating people on the road and de-motivating people on the road. Again, very natural as we don't live in flower-power land. :) So to change to bring in change to this community you need to earn the respect of the other developers here before steering the way forward. Bluntly speaking nobody wants to accept orders from people he does not respect or being paid by. And even the last part may be very hard sometimes. ;) For the matters at hand the following could be done: o Tarballs: Everyone seem to speak about daily tarballs. What I read from the openbsd guys have not been daily tarballs but tarballs for an alpha or rc to check if everything is fine beofre the actual release. Such tarballs are fine and have already been acknowledged and done before. They will even get some QA. And QA is something that differs from daily tarballs, like your script or a simple make disctheck, will produce. SOLUTION: Wait for the alpha and rc tarballs. o OpenBSD patches: Vincent asked raster to have a look at the patches. He did look and pointed out what was wrong. Agreed, a bit to blunt maybe. He did mention better options though. Something that people like to ignore in this thread. (BSD specific malloc changes in mempool instead on every file using it, not changing API/ABI without discussing it here). SOLUTION: To calm this down you or Vincent or someone else can keep working with them to gte the changes in. That involves understanding why so much changes are needed and bringing it up here to discuss about a solution. Uninteresting work like reviewing patches from the ml and putting them into svn. But it helps to balance the load. Raster is nobody who calls others for doing things for him. He waits until he comes to it and does them alone. To me that looks like he lost his faith in this because it did not work out well in many cases. Sure, that is something he needs to improve. That is nothing that stops others from stepping up and doing it without being asked for though. Mike, Vincent, Cedric and others are reviewing patches here on the ml. That takes of load from raster. He did not ask them to do it. For your tarball script you could do the same. Why must it happen on the main machine? You can host them yourself and when they are really becoming popular they can get moved. Not enough capabilities for hosting? I bet e.fr or others can help out there. Phew, long mail. To long actually. The main point here is that it does not help to forcing raster into a corner here. He is the main driver of the project and if people like to expand it need to be done in a way that do not offend the people that are already working on it. People earn respect and faith of others in their work by actual doings. There must not be a leader who is always right and delegates work into his hierarchy of minions. You have a pet peeve topic? You want to improve it? Don't ask for permission, do it and improve the situation gradually. regards Stefan Schmidt ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 _______________________________________________ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
