Ladies and gentlemen (you too, Bornath) before I get started here I'd like to introduce Dr Khidhir Hamza, a defector nuclear scientist from Iraq currently residing in the United States.
http://www.benadorassociates.com/hamza.php I note that there has been a considerable lessening of traffic on this thread since last night, a testament to the maturity of the peeps here, even if we all do get passionate at times. To ease the minds of all concerned, I will follow the traffic lessening trend after this, as long as it continues to be the trend. On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 02:11, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 00:44 -0500, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: > > On Tue, 2003-01-28 at 22:49, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > > > Sorry to bother you, but we were discussing whether there will be a > > > future for MandrakeSoft. After tonight I wonder whether there will > > > be a future for us all and the world as we know it. > > > I listened to the US-Amercan president. I'm not religious, I wish > > > I were. This madman and the options he has scare me to death. > > > > > > wobo > > > > I don't take kindly to my president being called a madman. Especially > > when he is fighting a *real* madman that has slaughtered over 230,000 > > innocent kurds with mustard gas; plus done God knows what else to his > > own people; President Bush was descriptive of some of those things. > > You've got the wrong f*cking madman, pal. If he's a madman then > > everybody else in the room was also, cause he got well over 9 standing > > ovations that I could count. He also has had the highest approval > > rating of any president in US history. He also has my undivided > > attention and support. So maybe the majority of Americans are madmen > > then? > > You just described Hitler and the German people in 1939. > You just described Goebbels in the Berlin Sportpalast with 100,000 > excited Germans shouting "War!" > "If war is forced upon us we will fight." Mr. Bush used those words. > Hitler used those words when he told the German people that "Polland > has attacked!" Hear the speeches of 1939 and of 2003 and compare the > phrases. And don't try to tell me anything about the German history. Your arrogance is astounding. You spout your own versions of American history to us (obviously flawed), and then forbid us from saying anything about yours? This is the same kind of arrogance that got germans into WW2, and sealed the fate of the Jews. > I don't want to take Hussein's side. Of course you do; you already have. Same mistake you guys made in WW2; aligning yourselves on the bad side of right and wrong. To be as technically competent a people as you all seem to be, you sure do seem keen on making mighty stupid ethical choices. Maybe if you were a little more along the lines of "In God We Trust", you might not be assuming such indefensible positions and losing all the time. > Surely he is a madman. But Mr. > Bush is trying to convince the world to go to a war with unknown > consequences to the whole world and he does so without any proper > reason so far. Hans Blix disagrees with you, Dr Khidhir Hamza disagrees with you, and oh yeah by the way your own German intelligence forces disagree with you as well. http://www.benadorassociates.com/article/1 Excerpt(s) from above URL::: "German intelligence estimates that Iraq will produce three atomic weapons by 2005. Reports of terrorists trying to get their hands on crop-dusters also point to Iraq. Even before Desert Storm, Hussein's scientists had modified crop-dusters for spraying biowarfare agents. They also had fitted a fighter plane with a spray tank." "Iraq's germ warfare program was perfected during its war with Iran in the 1980s. Little known outside scientific circles is the fact that Hussein even experimented on humans, starting around 1985 with anthrax. Cholera was developed as a weapon as well and employed in experiments on villagers in the Kurdish north. Iraq's germ warfare equipment and stocks were supposedly destroyed under the direction of U.N. inspectors after Desert Storm. But Hussein managed to hide quite a bit of it, as well as the biologists who worked on the weapons." "After Iraq's defeat in the Gulf War in 1991, terrorist training camps proliferated all over the country. One was right next to my ranch, 30 miles north of Baghdad on a branch of the Tigris River. The rural setting was ideal for such a facility. There were other camps, I learned later, which were even more remote, reachable only by helicopter. The buildings were so rudimentary that from the air they looked like Bedouin encampments." "I got to know one of the commandos who knew of my high rank in the government and had become friendly with my sons. In a relaxed mood one day, he told me that the training included the use of gas masks and special protective clothing, an unmistakable hint that biowar was in the curriculum." "Another reason to worry about Iraq: It has a huge underground network of spies and purchasing agents abroad. Bin Laden's agents reportedly were in contact with the network, which could provide them with both the material and expertise to unleash biological attacks on the West." "The bottom line is that, taking into account Hussein's vicious nature, his humiliation over the past 10 years and his declared intent to avenge his defeat in Desert Storm, he is perhaps the only national leader with both the means and the motive to help Bin Laden attack the United States. The U.S. government should urgently consider ways to push Hussein out of power. If we wait much longer, it may be too late." So. You were saying? > The mad side of it is that Mr. Bush plays with something that should > not be played with. There are still other means to solve the problem. > War is the last means. For Mr. Bush it is the first. > > The mad side of it are the reasons. Do you really believe he would > care for Iraq if it were not the state with the second richest oil > fields in the world? And unfortunately not under control of the > western oil companies? Ahh...YEAH, since there are more things in this world to be concerned about other than oil itself. Oil is not the end all and be all of the entire mode of universal existence, as liberals would like it to be. It may be that way in Germany but it's not that way over here. We also have almost 3000 dead over here as of Sept 11th, massive numbers of Kurdish people murdered, tortured, mutilated, mutated, and dead; plus major numbers of Iraqi citizens used as human experiments; not to mention children subjected to unmentionable tortures as a way to coerce behavior in key Iraqi officials and scientists. While I'm at it I should also mention the hell that the Kuwaitis have been through. So yeah, we are concerned about more things than some f**king oil. Oh, and by the way, when this is all over with, there will be a coalition of countries in charge of the Iraqi oil, not just the US. Get your information from some other source other than the socialist left. > The mad side of it are the so-called proofs he keeps talking about. If > there were hard evidence that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction we > would be much further down the way than we are now. UN would have seen > the docs last year and S. Hussein would be history by now. Quit talking like an idiot. Mustard gas is a weapon of mass destruction. VR nerve gas is a weapon of mass destruction. Sarin is a weapon of mass destruction. (Ask the subway victims of a sarin gas attack in Tokyo, March 20, 1995). Botulism agent is a weapon of mass destruction. These are all agents that the inspectors verified in Iraq 12 YEARS AGO and WERE SUPPOSED TO BE DESTROYED. And finally, last but certainly not least, nuclear weapons are mass destruction incarnate. And I know for a fact from evidence I have seen presented to the 9-19 Armed Services Committee by Dr. Khidhir Hamza that Saddam was no less than 6 months away from having a nuclear weapon 12 years ago. (Which by the way has NEVER BEEN REPORTED ON CNN. GO FIGURE.) But let's get to the real deal. Fast forward to today, when Hans Blix is attempting to account for what was already seen in Iraq. From Hans Blix's recent official presentation/report to the United Nations: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Evidence shows 500 tons total unaccounted for material, of the following types: Mustard gas (used to murder and mutate the Kurdish people), VX nerve agent, Botulism agent; serin. Source: Hans Blix (Translation: Saddam had it, no evidence that it was destroyed, per UN mandate) Capability of agent delivery: 30000 munitions capable of delivering above agents existed in prior inspections. Recent inspections only found 16. Saddam supplied no evidence that he had destroyed them. Source: Hans Blix (Translation: the capability to transfer the above agents of mass destruction to target(s) still exists) Long range missle development was discovered by the inspectors; has two missles that he was testing, and inspectors found Saddam IN THE ACT of testing them. Source: Hans Blix (Translation: Saddam is actively seeking methods to transfer agents of mass destruction to targets via long range missiles. This means Europe, pal) In conclusion: Dr Blix's position is that Iraq is formally in material breach of it's UN agreements, per their inspections. What this means is that military intervention is officially sanctioned. All of the above was history before President Bush's State of the Union address to the nation; therefore the items he reiterated were merely restatements of statements that Hans Blix had already made. > The main difference is: Then the US did have evidence about the Nazis > and still did not want war. Today the US do not have evidence about > Iraq and still want war. No, excuse me all you American citizens: > according to all polls not even 50% of the American people want war > now. Is that so, now? How very interesting. I don't think you will be excused, since your 50% is 100% bullsh*t. I've got the latest polls right here, hot off the news from yesterday, from your favorite news source, the Commie News Network, no less. CNN USA Gallup Poll (After State of the Union Address) ----------------------------------------------------- President Bush has same priorities as the American public? 81% Approval Rating Will President Bush's actions lead the country in the right direction? 71% Approval Rating President Bush having made a convincing argument FOR WAR against Iraq 67% Approval Rating TOTAL APPROVAL RATING FROM AMERICAN PUBLIC: 84% Approval > Sorry, you took that so personally, but read the facts. The facts have > nothing to do with emotions. That's right. And your posts have nothing to do with the facts; worse, they are completely thrown from a leftist socialist spin, with no apparent concern for the present day suffering of innocents. And THAT is what fries my eggs. > And please, don't mix up Germans and Nazis. Although I'm sure that > more than 50% of the German people believed Hitler when he went to > war. Like you do with your president. The difference is that we don't have the gas chambers, the Nazi ovens, and 6 million Jews that were murdered in the Holocaust. You keep your Saddam sympathy and I'll keep the leadership Americans have now. > wobo > -- > If you don't understand or are scared by any of the above > ask your parents or an adult to help you. > LX -- 같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같� Kernel 2.4.18-6mdk Mandrake Linux 8.2 Enlightenment 0.16.5-11mdk Evolution 1.0.2-5mdk Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ 같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같�
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