first of all... repeat after me. "FRANKI IS NOT AN AMERICAN" :-)
I'm an Aussie... Second.. the US must be spending what ?? 5-10 millian a day at the very least, probably a good deal more, putting all that military might around iraq... and its been going on for a very long time... That sort of money would take along time to get recompensed by iraq oil, particularly since the US would still have to pay for it anyway, and would have no direct control over it... as with Kuwait.... Yes... presidents have looked the other way many times in the past.. maybe its time to stop that??? Tibet is a good example to me is Tibet.. the chinese have all but totally crushed the wonderous culture of that country.. but in the 50's no one lifted a damn finger to stop them.. and thats not just the US.. thats everybody.. History is full of that as well.. maybe its time to stick up for the underdogs and try and make the whole world a democracy in some form or another.... I actually agree with the observation made earlier that Germany has a much more business like government then most other countries.. and I agree that from an economical perspective,, thats a really good thing.. from a military perspective, its a bad thing, because the people that don't know all the facts, can overrule the ones that do.. but overall I wish australia was run the same way... in Australia, our politicial parties spend all their time attacking each others policies instead of promoting the merits of their own policies .. If I had two wishes for the perfect democracy.. I would ask that a law be put in place where political parties MUST NOT attack their opposition at ever step and must instead promote the benefits of their own party and policies instead of relying on attaching everyone elses.. The other wish would be that issues of a military nature should be discussed by a commitee of the smartest people in the country, not the most popular.. intellegence and knowledge should be the prerequsite to being on that commitee... The very smartest minds in the country... regardless of their industry or occupation. And that commitee should have the ability to veto the head of state in issues of a military nature, and must have the ability to propose and act on actions decided upon by the commitee.. That way, the best minds are the ones making the important decisions, not politicians.. rgds Franki -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Alfredo C. López Sent: Thursday, 30 January 2003 12:34 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? Hi! I'm a guy living in Argentina, far away from the bullets. El Mié 29 Ene 2003 10:23, Franki escribió: > You didn't address the issue of what to do about saddam without fighting... > (assuming he is guilty.) > > what are the alternatives.??? There are always alternatives..... May be leave the iraquies alone.... Like a lot of US presidents did with Latin American in the past. It's known that in the past there were here a lot of Military presidents that didn't respect human rights and the us presidents never took action against them. More to say.... in Chile with President Alende... US was involve in the killing of Alende trough this guy called Kissinger. And it was a president voted by the people. And US supported the military president that come after that. Almost the same happend here in Argentina and Brasil. So... Please excuse me if I dont believe in your president. I don't trust anymore in a president that have to hide "evidence" in the behave of the people. Here in Argentina we suffer the doctrine of "national security" (of course... with the support of the US). So... to me.... the only explanation to the action taken by Bush administration is about oil and money. Nothing else..... there no comunist to fight this time. > > I am not saying i believe or disbelieve, I am saying that we don't know > enough as civilians to make the distinction... That is very sad to hear. And coming from an american, is very disappointing. I think that the civilians need to know.... so they can control what rule you. My two cents..... > > > > rgds > > Franki > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Wolfgang Bornath > Sent: Wednesday, 29 January 2003 8:59 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [expert] OT Will there be a tomorrow? > > On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 20:15 +0800, Franki wrote: > > Once hitler was in charge.. there was nothing even remotely like > > democracy... > > anyone that disagreed with him was locked up or killed.. many his own > > generals were terrified of him.. and most of the general german army had > > no > > > real idea what was going on or why they were fighting.. > > That doesn't sound much like what is going on in the US at the moment.. > > You are right with this. I did not compare the situation in the USA of > today with the situation in Germany in the 30ies. I just compared Mr. > Bush's speech with the speeches of Hitler and Goering in 1939. > > > everyone keeps saying "War is not the way" > > Correct. "War is commencing policy by different means." This quote > (can't remember who said that) doesn't apply any more in modern times. > Back when this quote was made war took place in the field. > > There were soldiers whose profession it was to go to war. They were > called "warriors". Was the girl killed in 9/11 or the man in the > streets of Oklahoma or the tourist in Djerba or on Bali, were they > warriors? NO. > > War has changed to something NOBODY can controll any more. All those > brave soldiers with their fine toys and their "Yes, Sir - No, Sir!" > mentality, they are just a part of war. If Saddam has to fight a > military action of the USA we all will be not warriors but potential > victims of that war. No matter how military actions proceed in Iraq, > there will always be enough terrorists ready to "revenge" whatever > they claim to be to revenge. > > > I'd like someone to give us an alternative for getting rid of saddam.. > > does > > > anyone have one? > > Sanctions didn't work against him... just starved his people and made the > > west look like assholes (because saddam tells the people that the west > > are the reason they are starving). > > > > He has been doing the same stuff since 91 and none of the UN stuff has > > worked worth a damn.. > > > > So what is this "alternative" so many speak of?? bribe him to leave?? > > assasinate him?? what?? lets hear the alternatives. > > One last thing, If there is nothing to what the US has been saying... > > then the UN would not be putting the pressure on iraq that they are > > now... so there must be something to it... > > The UN - looks like USA regards themselves not a member any more. All > I hear is "We want this and UN wants that!". The community of world's > people - nothing else is the UN! - has a board of directors if you may > say so, it has no CEO! Maybe Mr. Bush does not know this... > > The UN does what the people want from them - they put pressure on > Saddam to find out what's going on to then decide for action. The UN > is not shy to start military actions - read the resolutions of former > conflicts. > > > Also, if the US do know stuff we don't.. its possible they can't say > > because > > > they have probably been trying to put spy's over there since 91.. if it > > comes to a choise between revealing all, getting their spy's killed and > > losing their data... what would you do??? > > There is a point where all this has come into the open. There was a > long time now that Mr. Bush states that the US have evidence. Time > enough to clear out and cut all strings which could endanger someone > who is involved in gathering this evidence. > > Furthermore there is noone demanding to see the evidence in public. No > need to show them on CNN. > > There is always the option to show the evidence just to the members of > the Security Council and there's no reason to distrust those people > more than the average CIA guy. If those guys of the SC tell the world: > "OK, we have seen proof that Saddam has those weapons. We'll sign a > resolution to fight him." Then my little world is in order again. I'd > still be scared shitless, though. I'm also living in a city and work > in an institution and building which is on the top list of potential > targets (Frankfurt, Germany, German Federal Bank). > > > To put it simply, we MUSTN'T judge Bush, because we have no idea what he > > knows.. and what he doesn't. its possible that if you knew what he did, > > you > > > would be campaining for war also. Thats not to say that I agree with him, > > I > > > am simply not in a position to judge.. > > As long as Mr. Bush is the leader of a nation which is a part of a > community he has to obide by the rules. In this serious issue there is > no "Trust me, I know what I'm doing." > > wobo -- ================================================================= Lic. Alfredo Carlos López INIFTA - UNLP Phone: +54-221-425 7430 Instituto de Investigaciones Fax: +54-221-425 4642 Fisicoquímicas Teórica y Aplicada. Suc. 4 C.C. 16 1900 La Plata, Argentina Calle 68 nro.74 (e118/119) Dto. 15 Phone: +54-221-423 6240 1900 La Plata, Argentina Cell-Phone: +54-221-(15) 455 0141 ================================================================= "One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important." - Bertrand Russell (1872-1970)
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