The sad reality is that yes some people will attenmpt to cause problems, hence the idea of the contract, if you make the pool of people to govern smaller, perhaps it will be easier to keep in line.
For the sake of squashing drama at least for now, I feel like a discussion with valve needs to include an exact definition of what we can and cannot do, no more vague concepts. What we've been able to do with plugins is very open-ended and I don't blame valve in this for not having clear and cut rules, that's where an actual discussion with them can clear this up. In addition, I'd be less concerned about questionable servers if we got on the same page that a contract server would be barely modded with the idea that it could funnel users into a community's respected server should the user want to join, if the user likes or dislikes what they see, they can stay or move on. Not the best system? But it is similar to vanilla tf2 which had been building up just fine before quick play On Nov 9, 2017 4:48 PM, "Chase McIntyre" <chasenmcint...@gmail.com> wrote: > Ah, the royal "we" > > On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 4:29 PM, William Bevans <degg...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Back to the topic and not the petty drama, I could see Vavle not wanting >> to do this due to the fact that we all know that some community's will find >> ways to abuse it to get easy contract points. Maybe having Community Server >> only contracts will work but even that could be abused. >> >> On Nov 9, 2017 3:26 PM, "James Haikin" <jfrra...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Dude >>> >>> No one caaaaaaaaaaaaaares >>> >>> Go away >>> >>> -James >>> >>> On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 1:20 PM, bottige...@gmail.com < >>> bottige...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> You could have ignored it. You could have just said "Not true, but it's >>>>> not the time and place to discuss it here." >>>> >>>> >>>> I already stated our reasons for ignoring things like this which we >>>> have done for many years, and just doesn't work. A weak response like "Not >>>> true" and not offering any sort of substantial response is not going to >>>> convince anyone either. >>>> >>>> This is exactly the time and the place to discuss it. What exactly do >>>> you accomplish if you let other people slander you in public and you only >>>> respond in private??? If you don't refute them in public, then people will >>>> just assume they are telling the truth. >>>> >>>> It is sad that you are all so invested in this idea and terrified that >>>> Valve will ignore it that you cannot even tolerate 3 replies that weren't >>>> really off-topic. >>>> >>>> On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Chris Dunphy <cdunph...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Did I say you don’t have the right to respond? You certainly do. >>>>> Respond if you want, but do it literally anywhere else but here. Do not >>>>> clog up the mailing list with this nonsense. This list is not for airing >>>>> your dirty laundry, which I can assure you absolutely nobody on this list >>>>> cares about. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *Take it elsewhere.* >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From: *bottige...@gmail.com >>>>> *Sent: *Thursday, November 9, 2017 3:58 PM >>>>> *To: *Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list >>>>> <hlds@list.valvesoftware.com> >>>>> *Subject: *Re: [hlds] Proposal >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I think that was the most embarrassing little "fight" I've ever seen >>>>> on a mailing list. No serious server owner should be this petty and >>>>> willing >>>>> to fight on a *public mailing list for Team Fortress 2 updates*. At >>>>> least have the decency to be childish in private. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I don't think we are being childish for defending ourselves. We >>>>> ignored things like this before and it has led to many lies being spread >>>>> about us that have perpetuated even now like having pay2win or being >>>>> confused with saigns. If someone is going to call us out in public, >>>>> especially someone that has been slandering us for 7 years, we have a >>>>> right >>>>> to respond. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I am confused why you are expressing anger towards us when 404 was the >>>>> one that derailed this thread in the first place and blames us for being >>>>> the reason why Valve can't do this proposal when he is guilty of the thing >>>>> he accuses us of. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> This was a choice between defending ourselves, or slightly cluttering >>>>> up a suggestion that probably has 0 chance of being done since it was >>>>> already suggested to Valve many years ago... It was an easy choice to >>>>> make, >>>>> and I would make the same choice again. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 8:22 AM, Chris Dunphy <cdunph...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I think that was the most embarrassing little "fight" I've ever seen >>>>> on a mailing list. No serious server owner should be this petty and >>>>> willing >>>>> to fight on a *public mailing list for Team Fortress 2 updates*. At >>>>> least have the decency to be childish in private. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 11:12 AM, James Haikin <jfrra...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hey bottiger? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> One >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Cares >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -James >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 7:10 PM, bottige...@gmail.com < >>>>> bottige...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> This complaint about economics is a red herring that "404 user not >>>>> found" was just using to slander us. Valve had no problems enforcing the >>>>> economic rules before by making plugin given hats and weapons invisible in >>>>> the game. If particles were really such a big deal, they would've made >>>>> them >>>>> invisible already. They already actively enforce economic rules in CS:GO, >>>>> a >>>>> game where community servers are also forced to be inferior to official >>>>> ones. If throwing community servers into the browser solved the econ >>>>> problem, then why didn't they remove invisible hats and weapons? So the >>>>> reality is that Valve still polices the economy regardless of community >>>>> servers being ghettoized or not. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Also, back when plugin hats were still possible and rampant, we never >>>>> used it. So to paint us as some kind of serial anti-valve rule breaker is >>>>> simply wrong. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I think at this point there is no real solution that Valve is >>>>> interested in doing, otherwise they would have done so a lot sooner now >>>>> that it has been what, about 3 years since community servers were removed >>>>> from quickplay? The idea to have white-listing cost money has been >>>>> suggested many times before and while it is a real solution, Valve does >>>>> not >>>>> seem to be interested in this given the inaction. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> As I mentioned earlier, the most we could hope for is to have them >>>>> throw in a few community-server only contracts. But even if Valve somehow >>>>> agreed with the idea, I don't think it would be enough to stop the massive >>>>> decline that's going on right now. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 5:55 PM, Rowedahelicon < >>>>> theoneando...@rowedahelicon.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I think at least to stay on topic, there is a matter of the economy >>>>> rules Valve set in place, which I've always felt have been very vague when >>>>> it comes into really specific cases like this. Ideally speaking, I feel >>>>> like if what constitutes as a "valve approved" server would be very bare >>>>> bones, but if you want to run setups that one would find questionable is >>>>> why you'd have separate servers for that reason >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 8:12 PM, bottige...@gmail.com < >>>>> bottige...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> You are upset that this thread is going a little off topic but I am >>>>> simply defending my community and at the same time refuting his silly >>>>> argument that pro-community actions are useless because we abuse Valve's >>>>> rules. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> We used to let accusations like this go uncontested and it resulted in >>>>> having our community being wrongfully mixed up with saigns and other >>>>> falsehoods. So we now aggressively fight them before they can spread. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If he wants to stop his 7 year old grudge for being banned for racism >>>>> for 1 day and getting mad that we charge people for server benefits >>>>> instead >>>>> of running servers with welfare money like he did, then there wouldn't be >>>>> any reason to respond. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I am sure that most people here would do the same instead of keeping >>>>> quiet. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 4:58 PM, Tohru Adachi <tohruada...@8chan.co> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> ...Can we please stop with the drama, both of you? This isn't the >>>>> place for it. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 09/11/2017 00:53, bottige...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Where exactly do you see that I'm selling unusuals? Because I'm not. I >>>>> don't sell anything. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hmm really, you want to prove you are blatantly lying again like you >>>>> did on alliedmods with your alt account abrandnewday. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> https://i.imgur.com/nyuMwV0.png >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=243705 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> https://i.imgur.com/wLOj1oS.png >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>>> please visit: >>>>> >>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>>> please visit: >>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>>> please visit: >>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> *Matthew (Rowedahelicon) Robinson* >>>>> Web Designer / Artist / Writer >>>>> Website - http://www.rowedahelicon.com/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>>> please visit: >>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>>> please visit: >>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>>> please visit: >>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>>> please visit: >>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>>> please visit: >>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>> please visit: >>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >
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