On Thu, 2020-09-17 at 14:15 -0400, Brian Carpenter wrote: > On 9/17/20 1:45 PM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote: > > That's kind of my point. mm2 works for me and my use, I'd much rather > > prefer to keep it working than to rip it out and replace it, including > > installed and maintaining a database, a framework, a new setup of custom > > admin scripts unique to my setup, etc. No one has sold me on mm3 yet. > > It's because you don't want to be sold.
Absolutely not. I'm intrigued by the idea of mailman-core (1/3 of mm3) with a lightweight web-based GUI in front of it. But, to date, that doesn't exist. I also don't see the need for a db and api with a MLM, but I do see value in those things. > But I will say this, what you > want as a list owner, and what your list members want are two different > things. They may line up and they may not. But I suspect many list > owners are watching their mm2 lists shrink either in membership size or > posting activity. Communication behavior changes. Social media has had a > tremendous impact on how communications work on the web. Integrations > are very important to a lot of groups. None of these things are possible > with Mailman 2. Mailman 2 is inflexible as your position to not be > swayed to use Mailman 3. That's just FUD. Don't take offense because I haven't taken you up on your mm3 work around(s). I have mm3 installs, but they are not what my users want. > Also your above comments show your unjustified bias against Mailman 3: > "you have to do so many things to use Mailman 3". No you don't. Again, you're the guy who had to pay someone else to make 2/3rds of Mailman 3 work for you. > I think > the real culprit is your custom admin scripts that you are using to make > up for whatever shortcomings you found with MM2. You don't want to go > through the task of getting them to work with Mailman 3. Perhaps you > can't. So at least that is a valid point for wanting to stick with MM2. > However that is not the fault of Mailman 3. My "custom scripts" are cron+bash scripts to send monthly mailman reports out to admins. Hardly anything that can't be re-worked anywhere else, but why? > > > I'm not sure what the point of this is. According to > > > <https://www.mailop.org/about/>;;, MAILOP is already on Mailman 3. > > They are not, (i'd guess most likely due to overly optimistic views on > > how easy a migration to mm3 would be, perhaps they needed a bigger > > server or had to hire a database guy, who really knows). What i do know > > is that, from a post yesterday, they are still using an old Mailman > > version: > > > > Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 08:37:43 -0500 > > Subject: Re: [mailop] Spam using bit.ly link shorteners, > > this time via Outlook > > X-BeenThere:mai...@mailop.org > > X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 > > Precedence: list > > List-Id: For mail operators <mailop.mailop.org> > > > > > > I'd email Simon to ask why the discrepancy, but he's already alluded to > > it a few times on their list. Note: he originally planned to started > > moving mailop.org to mm3 last December, so he's had plenty of time. > > Please let Simon know I can install Mailman 3 and migrate his list to > Mailman 3 within a day. I won't be your salesman. > > > It appears NANOG has only 3 public Mailman 2.1 lists and only one has > > > archives pre-dating MM 2.1 which could require attention before > > > importing to HyperKitty. So list migration via `mailman import21` and > > > `django-admin hyperkitty_import` should be straightforward. > > > > > > I guess you are saying that step 1, "First install Mailman 3" would be > > > the sticking point, but this is the same whether you are NANOG or > > > mail.python.org or tiny site with one list, and it has been accomplished > > > multiple times by multiple people. I've documented my experience at > > > <https://wiki.list.org/x/17891998>;;. Brian's take is at > > > <https://wiki.list.org/x/17892066>;;. > > > > > I've read both of those links in the past, and honestly that is good > > detail to have. What I was looking for in an "elevator pitch" is a 30 > > second statement on what benefit someone would have by moving to mm3. > > Given the time and effort (big or small) why should anyone move to mm3 > > if their mm2 installation still works and functions fine? There are > > people here saying "move to mm3 now!!, etc.", but what's the selling > > point? > > > > -Jim P. > > I have been posting those selling points frequently. But you are > *inflexible* in your insistence in using MM2. So re-capping them should be easy and do'able...., right? > I will give you a 3 second selling point: *flexibility*, choices, future > new features, searchable archives, a growing community of users, etc. I hope you one day see how ridiculous that sounds as an elevator pitch. ;-) -Jim P. ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
