On November 27, 2001 04:48 am, Franki wrote: > you have a small flaw in your logic... No, I don't. There was no "Logic" in the first place, I told you that
<snip> And while we're at it the day Linux starts acting completely like Windows is the same day I have to defragment my ReiserFS partition after I do a virus scan because my firewalling software didn't work. </snip> ...Was hyperbole, a calculated exaggeration. I have not been applying any logic anywhere, I've just been relating that *my experience* with Linux has not been all that difficult,... No logic necessary as I've only been drawing on my experiences. If you're looking for a fight, go somewhere else, I'm entitled to my opinion. Richie > > whenever any company releases a product that does something better, it gets > adopted by others because it is better. > > when a company release something that sucks.. it doesn't usually get > adopted, (unless there are marketing reasons or blackmail behind it..) > > Winblows knicked ideas from Mac, they knicked stuff from bsd.. they knicked > lots of stuff I think... why? because it > did the job easier and simplier then what they had at the time, (assuming > they had something.) > > linux then knicked stuff from M$,, like KDE's layout and format... why? > because it was easier to understand, and > the majority of people already understand it. > > nobody is suggesting that linux should knick crap like BSOD's or fat32 or > adopt its usability in reiserfs or anything.. > but there is nothing wrong with copying the functionality of useful > stuff..stuff that makes things more efficient (there is that word again.) > > when ABS for cars came out, wow, what a reaction, but it was patented > worldwide, once it expired, it got installed into most new mid to high end > cars,, why? because it saved lives..(you can equate that to increased > efficiency if you like, I have always found that I work better when I'm > alive.) who cares who invented it? > > Don't let hate for M$ blind you, the only area where M$ has superiority > over linux is its simplicity... even most linux diehards are not blind to > that... but things are getting closer.. why? because we can take the best > of their ideas, (or ideas that they have knicked) and leave the dross with > winblows.. and slowly linux is doing just that.. > > rgds > > Frank > > > PS, you don't need an application to install windows apps, you find an > install.exe file, and you dbl click on it.. and then answer questions.. > thats it... rpmdrake is good and a huge step up from compiling at a > console, but its still lagging behind just starting a setup.exe file... > > for better or worse, I think that is one of the main reasons that even > experianced windows users don't like linux (and most of us started as > experianced windows users.) > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, 27 November 2001 10:11 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [newbie] The problem with Linux > > > > Sorry, my message wan't pointed directly at you,,, > > On November 25, 2001 10:33 am, Franki wrote: > > Firstly, I wasn't talking about me.. I was refering to people unfamiliar > > with the proceedure.. > > That's the point I was trying to make, it's the lack of familiarity, not a > problem inherent to Linuxes (... or Linuxi?) > > > I have always managed to get things going.. but I know a shitload of > > people > > > that haven't been able to. > > > > <snip> > > ..Wow, what a lazy bunch of buggers! > > </snip> > > > > First, the 'hunting for libraries' complaint is moot: I have yet to look > > any further than my own LM install disks for libraries-- LM is probably > > better than many distros out there as they actually provide you with more > > than one install CD and all the stuff they offer has been compiled for a > > Mandrake system so it's going to work. > > > > <snip> > > like I said, not my problem, but you don't have to install them in > > windows,, (their method sux, with overwriting > > and such, but it does make it more or less dead easy.) > > </snip> > > ...I'll stand by installations on Linux being different and not difficult > and > when you're installing RPMs through RPMDrake, dependencies are installed in > the same go anyway so what's the big deal? > > > Second, no one says you *have* to install the latest kernel and it isn't > > even > > necessary unless you're adding brand new hardware that didn't exist six > > months ago-- how many of you out there are installing kernels just > > because it > > has a higher number? > > > > <snip> > > What about the recommended kernel upgrades, there have always been some > > in the last few mdk versions.. > > sometimes more then one,, (ie 7.2) 8 has had a security kernel upgrade, > > and mandrake 8.1 has one now too. > > (to address the recent ptrace bug and others..) > > </snip> > > OK, valid-- but that's two critical updates over hundreds of unwarranted > kernel version updates (unwarranted for the average user...) > > > By-and-by the install process is standard-- using RPMs is easy enough and > > for > > the odd times when I have to compile there's always an "install.sh" or > > "configure.sh"-- and another silly thing that even comes with Windoze > > installations: README files-- how many of you have failed to install > > something properly because you didn't read the instructions. > > > > <snip> > > I didn't claim that windows was better, I loath windows and M$, but it is > > undeniably easier. > > 5000,000 morons can't be wrong. :-) > > </snip> > > ...Still don't have me convinced Linux is just different and much of the > perceived difficulty is from having to change. I say this with absolute > certainty because I had to change from Windows-thinking to Linux-thinking > myself. > > > Bottom line: If you want something 'Just like Windows' then use Windows. > > There is no such thing as out-and-out replacing an OS. They all have > > their > > > advantages and disadvantages. > > > > <snip> > > I don't deny that at all, and I wasn't refering to that at all... I > > simply made > > a suggestion, such suggestions are the reason that KDE, Gnome and others > > are slowly reaching > > the same level of functionality as windows.. don't be a puritan, things > > don't have to be hard.. > > I can do it the hard way as well as anyone, I am just not so short > > sighted as to think that it > > may not be the most productive way to always do it the hard way.. and > > incidently, all I said was > > to create a self executable tar file or something that can do the hard > > work > > > for you, and then make it a > > standard.. and just you watch, it will happen. each distro will end up > > with > > > a file in it somewhere that > > details its locations policy, and the install tar can read that to work > > out > > > where to install everything, > > and it could automatically update the rpm database, go and get libs or > > whatever (assuming it doesn't contain > > them already) and it would make loading apps easier then windows, which > > means FAST to install, meaning > > more productive.. I am not even concerned with difficulty myself, I don't > > give a rats to be quiet honest. > > I am concerned with getting it done fast, and moving on,, I don't like to > > dick around when I could be > > doing something more productive.. EFFICIENCY... thats what it is all > > about, > > > "More bang for your Click" so to > > speak.. (thats not a bad theme that.. :-) > > </snip> > > > > > > And while we're at it the day Linux starts acting completely like Windows > > is the same day I have to defragment my ReiserFS partition after I do a > > virus scan because my firewalling software didn't work. > > > > <snip> > > So you equate ease with worth? if something isn't hard to do or time > > consuming, then it can't be any good? > > I spend more time actually using my home computer than maintaining it since > I > switched to Linux... three-hour hard-drive defrags with Win98? No one > really > wants that do they? > > > thats just outright bullshit,, how many sysadmins are not overworked? I > > know I am,, so anything that makes > > my job faster, means I am more productive, end of story. > > </snip> > > Whoops, you missed the point, ReiserFS doesn't need defragging, there are > no virii on Linux and Linux firewalling is done through proper packet > filtering... It's just a bit of hyperbole, an exaggeration. > > The fact is there's less work to do on a Linux system because Linux is > Linux and not Windows. > > Richie > > > Linux is different. Get over it! I really don't care if my neighbour is > > using it or not, I just want Linux to be there so I have a choice in how > > I use my PC. Period! > > > > <snip> > > ditto, and the fact that I use linux on servers mostly, goes to show that > > I > > > don't want it to be "winblows" (shudder) > > nothing wrong with efficiency though.. > > </snip> > > > > > > > > rgds > > > > Frank > > > > > > > > Richie
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