*> For this kind of previewing, often done in a pretty tight > authoring loop, seemed that going via the server can be too slow -- even > when it's on localhost so that the networking is fast. * * * * Also another "issue" that Toni pointed out above is that realtime previewing (via the server) may not even be possible (due to performance issues) to have a persistent "always on" server connection (for previewing). So previewing via Naali would seem to make the most sense.
* *> Even if its a bit boldly pointed out - but we realy should try to think more like the web * *> then like a single world with a central government like SL.* Exactly right! I personally view "OpenSim/RealXtend" as the future "3D Apache Web Server". Where there will be modules (similar to Apache) that can be installed to add additional functionality to the 3D server. Personally, I really want to use it as a realistic "life like" gaming platform (with OpenGL 4.0 & DirectX 11 graphics that support tessellation). I just don't know/understand whether the server/viewer could reach the point of "maturity" where we could get CryEngine 4 performance using the OpenSim/realXtend server platform and the Naali viewer. 2012 is the year that CryEngine 4 is supposed to be released, and I personally would love to see an "OpenSource" platform (like realXtend) become a rival to something like CryEngine 4. http://www.joystiq.com/2009/08/17/crytek-road-map-has-next-generation-starting-in-2012-next-engin/ Some of the biggest issues/features that we need are: 1) Ability to use professional content creation tools (i.e. Blender, 3dsmax, etc.) in realXtend (OpenSim + ModRex). 2) Improve graphics (does Ogre3D currently have OpenGL 4.0 / DirectX 11 with Tessellation support yet?) 3) Improve the game mechanics and interactions (reduce lag, develop a "combat" system, develop a "live vegetation" with advanced physics properties so that vegetation can be "shot" or "damaged" or "destroyed", implement improved in-world physics engines or possibly just use PAL). It would be nice to have vegetation that moves (in real-time) as you walk on it. Tree branches that move (and break) as you walk through a forest. Look at CryEngine 4 and look at all the things that make CryEngine great, and try to implement these same things within realXtend. 4) Give game/content developers the ability to use open source Physics engines like Bullet (which is what the PS3 is using) that have large libraries of open source scripts for tanks, jeeps, tracked vehicles, readily available. (Plus Blender supports Bullet) 5) Have large open source "content libraries" available for developers (free of charge) so that users can freely download high-res content (vehicles, vegetation, buildings, aircraft, etc.) that each have advanced physics properties and have "life like" high-res textures. There are a LOT of free content communities that form around games like X-Plane, and OpenBVE. There are thousands of free high resolution aircraft (with correct physics properties) developed by the community available and it would be nice to use these same aircraft (and trains, cars, etc.) in realXtend. 6) Ability to use existing file format standards (such as X-Plane's .acf aircraft format) directly into realXtend, as well as OpenBVE's .dat train engines, and ShipSimulator's ships. The ability to use existing file format standards natively, or at least the ability to convert/import other readily available format standards (such as .acf, .dat, etc.). So that users can re-use (or import) existing free community content and don't have to model/create new aircraft completely from scratch, and can simply re-use existing free high resolution aircraft/train/ship content (with existing advanced aircraft/train/ship physics attributes) so that users can simply import an existing X-Plane 9.x ".acf" file format aircraft into realXtend and be able to fly it (with all the existing physics attributes in place). There are a lot of existing high resolution aircraft (with 3D cockpits and 3D cabins) with high resolution textures, sounds, working gauges and all the correct/proper physics attributes (so the aircraft fly "realistically" and can sustain "physics" damage hits in a realistic manner). It would be nice to simply be able to re-use a lot of this free X-Plane content and import it directly into realXtend (OpenSim + ModRex). http://www.xplanefreeware.net/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenBVE * * "SL" has a very limited mindset (and it's direction is controlled by ONE company), and sometimes it takes thinking "outside the box" and looking at how we'll be able to make this (gaming) platform as realistic (and as scalable) as possible (without limiting ourselves just by the old "SL" way of thinking). The web is a very good example. I believe using the "SL" concept as a starting point is a good basis, but I do like how realXtend isn't afraid to "break away" from the old "SL" compatibility (in certain aspects). Which in the future may be necessary simply due to some of the issues/problems found in SL. The ability to use professional tools like Blender and 3dsmax to import/export OpenSim + ModRex content is a very good "first step" in the right direction. * * On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 2:24 PM, Peter Steinlechner <[email protected]>wrote: > Even if its a bit boldly pointed out - but we realy should try to think > more like the web then like a single world with a central government like > SL. I don't want to downsize the merits of Linden Labs and others that came > up with a niche product. > > A thing I realy like in SL is the ability to have several online groups and > wonder if it would be possible to have simultaneously several jabber > connections to different accounts - that could maybe solve the whole group > implementation. I wouldnt wonder if its allready in naali and i just didnt > found the button yet :-) > > > > On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 8:55 PM, Mark Malewski <[email protected]>wrote: > >> >> *> IMHO i think a smooth as possible blender upload would benefit the >> entire * >> *> content production and bring the community of blender artists with >> their great works on board. * >> >> I completely agree. >> >> This is not all about the "SL" people (who are stuck in the "mindset" of >> Second Life). We need to get beyond the mindset of those "stuck" in Second >> Life mentality, and instead this needs to be viewed as look at all the >> Blender artists (and other non-SL artists that do 3D graphic design) and >> giving them an opportunity to take their creative work, and import it >> directly into OpenSim + ModRex. (Without having any "SL" experience at >> all). >> >> I believe the best thing we can possibly do is create better content >> creation tools for artists, and make it as EASY as possible to bring good >> content in. There is absolutely no reason to REQUIRE a persistent "always >> on" Sync with the server (and content should be able to be created offline, >> that's the whole point of using blender, and then simply uploaded with a >> quick touch of the "SYNC" button). Although it might not be a bad idea to >> have a "toggle on/toggle off" sync button that could be left on (with a >> persistent sync to the server) for those that just really enjoy burning up >> bandwidth (or for those working/collaborating with others in real-time). >> But please make sure that persistent internet connectivity is not a >> requirement, because mobile users (such as myself) would really prefer to >> design things whenever/wherever and not have to have a persistent internet >> connection to a server. I would prefer to develop locally (offline), and >> then simply just "sync" (import/export) the finished creation to a server >> when I'm at a place with a high bandwidth internet connection. >> >> >> On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 1:41 PM, Peter Steinlechner < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> IMHO i think a smooth as possible blender upload would benefit the entire >>> content production and bring the community of blender artists with their >>> great works on board. For people that love rapid prototyping Sketchup is a >>> great, easy to learn and free option and after all - those who love to use >>> prims like back in sl they can. >>> >>> From the social aspects i see no reason why this should hinder the >>> artisan from inworld activities as well as from collaborative works and it >>> rather frees them to work with less distractions. >>> >>> So much for my 5 cents in this topic and YAY! We are not in SL anymore! >>> >>> realxtend rawks big time >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 7:40 PM, Tara Desoto <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> HI Senor Martin .. >>>> >>>> I hope you have been well ! I would like to give you a few comments >>>> . From my perspective , I would hope that you don't remove Talented >>>> Craftsmen , Artisans and Architects from the world Grids by creating only >>>> an >>>> OFF line content creation pipeline that removes the Artisans avatar from >>>> the worlds . There are several reasons why I would like to see builders >>>> remain in world and not simply pipeline content . Some reasons are >>>> social >>>> and cultural , some of the other reasons are economic . >>>> >>>> >>>> Some Concerns I have :: >>>> >>>> Content Creators are very good citizens of a world grid . Serious , >>>> large scale grid owners know that these content creators are critical to >>>> there early success . I personally sponser these creators much like a >>>> Rennaissance Era Princess would . I give them everything they need , >>>> money >>>> , land etc to succeed . But they also need to see me in world , in order >>>> to >>>> remain highly motivated as I want and need them to be . I suppose I >>>> could >>>> require the guys to be in world while they pipeline content , but then its >>>> easy for them to say they were AFK working .. So in terms of Global >>>> management of a crew , I feel its essential that work is done in world.. >>>> Economically , I would hope to see builders in world , because these are >>>> good jobs . They also bring more content creators to the world grid as >>>> they >>>> say that the world is a good place to live a virtual life ... What kinds >>>> of jobs and opportunities do we have in world if we remove the construction >>>> trades from our world grids ? We also do not want a world full of >>>> game >>>> players . Game players do not contribute content generally so they are >>>> not >>>> productive in world . They are consumers .. We need consumers and >>>> producers in world . Economically , I feel its essential that people are >>>> able to project there vision and plans upon the world ( while they are in >>>> world ) . IF people only see a world as being a place for them to play a >>>> game , this is going to dramatically reduce the amount of content that is >>>> in world . It could possibly lead to a near monopoly of content where the >>>> world owner needs to create much of the content herself . This is viable >>>> in small scale operations , but is impossible in larger grids for one >>>> person to create content for 1000 regions , for example . >>>> >>>> I could go on and on about my reasons as to why I need to see my >>>> artisans in world creating there masterpieces and my biggest concerns that >>>> I have is that I am very precise in what I require my guys to do and they >>>> dont motivate like they do when they are with me . In many cases , if >>>> they >>>> do not see me , they may not even really care about the job too much . >>>> Who >>>> knows if I can get the person to even produce in such a situation without >>>> them having direct contact with me . >>>> >>>> I also see mistakes that others do not see and In my view , Its going >>>> to be hard for most of them to meet the requirements of my builds if they >>>> do >>>> not have direct contact with me during the building process in world . >>>> Part of this reason , is because they all like to take short cuts , >>>> regardless of how much money they are being paid . I have never seen a >>>> build where a person has created exactly what i want without changes having >>>> to take place . For example , I could say , this flooring is not right , >>>> I do not like those windows .. That should have been pure white cement and >>>> not that shade you used... ETC .. So a method of fixing things , some what >>>> on the fly like this , would be very helpful . IF they can't do it in world >>>> at least in some modest way , I think we are going to get less work done >>>> than we would like to , because it is going to take them longer to fix >>>> there >>>> builds. In short and if possible senor Martin , I would like you to >>>> integrate blender into the world building system so that we can some how >>>> keep builders in world . You probably have a colloborative solution in >>>> place already , I am simply saying that this solution is important to the >>>> success of larger grids. Lastly , while it is probably a defeat for me >>>> if >>>> all of my builders are creating content off world , but we all sincerely >>>> appreciate your efforts in creating a working build system for Taiga . >>>> >>>> Thank you Senor Martin for taking the time to read my response >>>> >>>> Tara Desoto >>>> >>>> -- >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend >>>> http://www.realxtend.org >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend >>> http://www.realxtend.org >>> >> >> -- >> http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend >> http://www.realxtend.org >> > > -- > http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend > http://www.realxtend.org > -- http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend http://www.realxtend.org
