Hello !! > I've read the whole thread, and I have the impress that there are two > distinct issues that are addressed. That's part of the reason people don't > agree I think on the proposals. The first issue is to make sure that there > are no public insults on sage-devel, trac, etc. by organizing a procedure to > deal with such events. The second issue is to make this "place" (sage-devel, > trac, etc.) a friendly place where people, especially newcomers, feel good > so that they want to contribute.
Hmmm... Well really I would be surprised if anybody can dig through sage-devel and find people insulting each other there. So let us stop claiming that a "code" or a "behaviour advice" in the developper's manual would put an end to that... Newcomers do not often come here to insult us either, and even if one did: who cares ? He will leave soon, and a rule he never read will not stop him [1]. I believe that we are nice with newcomers (never heard differently). If some persons here want a code of conduct they are long-term contributors, and it is to defend themseves against other long-term contributors. And, permit me to say, very probably against myself though I may not be the only one (I've got no idea). Thus the "pro" rethoric is a bit uneasy, for unless you actually give names you have to pretend that the problem is much more general: I believe that it is on the contrary focused on a handful of guys. So. The point of this code is to try to stop those bad guys from misbehaving (and whoever wants such a code must have a clear idea of what this misbehaviour can be). I simply doubt that it will have any effect. "Feeling hurt" is not something you ban/exclude (even temporarily) people for, you need something more objective than that. Actual insults or something, broken arms, blood.... And I never saw that happen here. > The two issues are quite different, and we should as a first step make sure > we know which one we want to address right now. I feel like the second one > is more important since public insults are not real problem here. Any > proposal with formal rules that people have to obey to if they do not want > to be punished won't solve the second issue. In some sense, as soon as > somebody feels insulted, it is too late. Yes, and hard to formalize. Actually, people hurt each other's feelings because some say things without expecting others to react personally about them, e.g. discuss an implementation, the doc or something. Sometimes you react matter-of-factly, sometimes you can feel a bit insulted... And I do not see how a code could sort that out. > To me, the only thing that can be done is to have somewhere some advice to > be as polite as possible, to make constructive comments and be kind with > people, especially newcomers. Right, this sounds like common sense! But if > people feel the need that it is written somewhere, why not? Personally, I'd > rather call this "Advices" than "Code of Conduct" that sounds too formal to > my taste... Well, if somebody sleeps better with an "Advice" section in the developper's manual why not ? We should help those guys if we can. My own sleep is being interrupted by mosquitoes these days, I sure can relate. Nathann [1] Please don't accuse me of sexism again. Girls can come and insult us too if they like, and we will hate them for it, like anybody else. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
