RE: The New Macromedia Website(ODBC)

[Joe Eugene]

> Every complex software product I've ever seen has numerous bugs.

You might want to take a look at some of the *.jar files.. and see
how complex cfmx is...

> No, I don't have any theories, just observations. If there are two ways to
> do something, and one works better than the other, I'll recommend the one
> that works.

How do you OR i know...what works... unless you spent a few un-productive
hours
testing for what works? If i spend alot of time reseaching work-arounds to
a vendors software...
What value is that vendors software to me?.. where is ROI?

Joe




> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 12:21 AM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: The New Macromedia Website(ODBC)
>
>
> > I am NOT saying "ANY".. software is not perfect!. We are
> > not talking about one specific issue... CFMX has had numerous
> > issues... (Check Updater Docs... if you want to start counting
> > them)
>
> Every complex software product I've ever seen has numerous bugs. I'm not
> sure why you'd expect CFMX to be any different.
>
> > > My solution is to find the best way to solve a problem.
> > > If JDBC-ODBC doesn't work well in CFMX, but "pure" JDBC
> > > does, my solution may well be to recommend "pure" JDBC.
> >
> > Yes.. JDBC is a Solution/Alternative.. Not a fix to the
> > software(cfmx) BUG.
> >
> > Example...CFMX had COM Issues...am not sure where it
> > stands now... Any COM functionality can be replicated
> > very well through a Java Bean.. So in your theory...
> > Instead of MM fixing COM issues... you probably will
> > ask all your developers to re-write every COM in a
> > Java Bean?
> >
> > You have really have interesting theories.
>
> No, I don't have any theories, just observations. If there are two ways to
> do something, and one works better than the other, I'll recommend the one
> that works. If I need COM interoperability, I might not recommend a CFMX
> solution. For that matter, I might not recommend CF 5 for that,
> either. But
> I'm not going to wait for perfection from any vendor.
>
> Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
> http://www.figleaf.com/
> voice: (202) 797-5496
> fax: (202) 797-5444
>
> 
~|
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RE: The New Macromedia Website(ODBC)

[Joe Eugene]

> but you completely missed the point of his answer.

There is NO point made here...unless u want you brief.

Joe Eugene



> -Original Message-
> From: Kwang Suh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 11:50 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: The New Macromedia Website(ODBC)
>
>
> Mr. Watts can defend himself, but you completely missed the point of his
> answer.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Joe Eugene" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 8:52 PM
> Subject: RE: The New Macromedia Website(ODBC)
>
>
> > > So, you're saying that if there's ANY bug at all in CFMX, it
> > > shouldn't have
> > > been released
> >
> > I am NOT saying "ANY".. software is not perfect!. We are not talking
> > about one specific issue... CFMX has had numerous issues...
> > (Check Updater Docs... if you want to start counting them)
> >
> > > My solution is to find the best way to solve a problem. If
> > > JDBC-ODBC doesn't
> > > work well in CFMX, but "pure" JDBC does, my solution may well be to
> > > recommend "pure" JDBC.
> >
> > Yes.. JDBC is a Solution/Alternative.. Not a fix to the software(cfmx)
> BUG.
> >
> > Example...CFMX had COM Issues...am not sure where it stands now...
> > Any COM functionality can be replicated very well through a Java Bean..
> > So in your theory...Instead of MM fixing COM issues... you probably
> > will ask all your developers to re-write every COM in a Java Bean?
> >
> > You have really have interesting theories.
> >
> > Joe Eugene
> >
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 6:11 PM
> > > To: CF-Talk
> > > Subject: RE: The New Macromedia Website(ODBC)
> > >
> > >
> > > > > It's another thing to say that the product shouldn't have
> > > > > been released because of it.
> > > >
> > > > It might be your nature to release "BUG"/GY applications...
> > > > I Dont operate that way.
> > >
> > > So, you're saying that if there's ANY bug at all in CFMX, it
> > > shouldn't have
> > > been released? I'd still be waiting for my bug-free copy of CF 2 then!
> And
> > > how about my Windows NT 3.51 fixes - I'm still waiting! It's
> simply not
> > > practical to expect any software package of any complexity to have no
> bugs
> > > at all.
> > >
> > > > > Most bugs aren't trivial to the people who run into them
> > > >
> > > > Apparently its Trivial to most developers here...If something
> > > > doesnt work.. My solution is to get it fixed... Yours might
> > > > be to improve Product Manuals and perhaps buy the User Big
> > > > Eye Glasses... not a bad Strategy!.
> > >
> > > My solution is to find the best way to solve a problem. If
> > > JDBC-ODBC doesn't
> > > work well in CFMX, but "pure" JDBC does, my solution may well be to
> > > recommend "pure" JDBC. If there's some reason that's not acceptable,
> then
> > > that's a different matter. But I try to keep my expectations
> realistic.
> > >
> > > Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
> > > http://www.figleaf.com/
> > > voice: (202) 797-5496
> > > fax: (202) 797-5444
> > >
> > >
> >
> 
~|
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Re: WOT OS X CLI Set Display Resolution

[Sean A Corfield]

On Friday, Mar 7, 2003, at 21:31 US/Pacific, Dick Applebaum wrote:
> Only problem is that I want to write this up with screen shots, etc. --
> so I need to use the GUI

You could always reboot the server and reconnect to it which should 
refresh the VNC display:

shutdown -r

(as root)

Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

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RE: Still can't connect to IIs anyone know why?

[Dave Watts]

> Thanks for your help, James, all went well following your 
> procedure till I got to step 8. I double clicked the 
> connector.bat file, and got the
> following error message: 
> 
> [quote]
> File C:\CFusionMX\runtime\lib\wsconfig\jrunwin32.dll newer 
> than JAR file
> C:\CFusionMX\runtime\lib\wsconfig.jar so not extracted\
> [/quote]
> 
> Therefore nothing following could work.  There is no 
> \wsconfig\1 folder, and therefore no contents there.
> 
> Why does the release package have an incompatible version 
> of jrunwin32.dll in it?  What are we supposed to do about 
> that then? 
> 
> It means the product, as delivered from the Macromedia site 
> doesn't work with IIs.

This isn't a regular problem. You may be able to work around it by doing the
following.

1. Find wsconfig.jar and copy it to a new file, wsconfig.zip.

2. Open it up in your zip extractor of choice.

3. Find the file jrun.dll, and extract it somewhere (I suggest creating a
"1" subdirectory in your wsconfig folder).

4. Within the IIS management console, map these extensions to it: .cfm,
.cfc, .jws, .jsp.

5. Create a virtual directory within IIS pointing to the directory in (3),
and name it "JrunScripts".

This will set up the DLL as an ISAPI extension. You could set it up as a
filter instead, if you like, by adding it as a filter in the IIS management
console.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444

~|
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RE: Still can't connect to IIs anyone know why?

[Chris Kief]

Mike,

I'm feeling bad here. Lots of stress and still no positive results for you -
that sucks.

I believe I read you're on XP...if that's the case, send me an email
off-line and we can setup a remote assistance session and I'll walk you
through setting up CFMX. It's a rather complex beast the first time you work
with it. There are quite a few things that can go wrong - most of which are
very simple to fix once you've done it once (like most everything ;).

That's the best I can do!
chris



>-Original Message-
>From: Michael Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 9:24 PM
>To: CF-Talk
>Subject: Still can't connect to IIs anyone know why?
>
>Thanks for your help, James, all went well following your procedure till
>I got to step 8.  I double clicked the connector.bat file, and got the
>following error message:
>
>[quote]
>File C:\CFusionMX\runtime\lib\wsconfig\jrunwin32.dll newer than JAR file
>C:\CFusionMX\runtime\lib\wsconfig.jar so not extracted\
>[/quote]
>
>Therefore nothing following could work.  There is no \wsconfig\1 folder,
>and therefore no contents there.
>
>Why does the release package have an incompatible version of
>jrunwin32.dll in it?  What are we supposed to do about that then?
>
>It means the product, as delivered from the Macromedia site doesn't work
>with IIs.
>
>Anyone have any idea what to do about that?
>
>
>Cheers,
>Michael Kear
>Windsor, NSW, Australia
>AFP Webworks.
>
>
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: James Blaha [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Saturday, 8 March 2003 7:42 AM
>To: CF-Talk
>Subject: Re: Installation problem with MX - HELP!!
>
>Below is an easy step-by-step configuration approach for windows web
>server configuration. Applicable for IIS, Apache and iPlanet.  Please
>ignore steps that do not apply.
>
>1) Stop your web server.
>2) Please uninstall CFMX,
>3) Delete any registry key for HKLM\Software\Macromedia\ColdFusion,
>4) Delete the  and rename the CFIDE and CFDOCS
>from your IIS webroot.
>5) Reboot your machine.
>6) On reinstalling CFMX, please use the stand alone webserver that came
>with CFMX.
>7) Try to access the CFMX Administrator on port 8500.
>8) From your \Bin\Connectors folder, double click on the
>particular connector you wish to work with CFMX.  If you receive an
>error stating that Jrun is not started, please close the DOS window and
>launch C:\CFusionMX\Bin\cfstart.bat then launch the _connector.bat
>again.
>9) A directory C:\CFusionMX\runtime\lib\wsconfig\1, should have been
>created with jrun.dll for IIS, mod_jrun.so for Apache and
>jrun_nsapi35.dll inside the 1 directory.
>10) Please verify from your CF documentation on what entries should have
>been created/inserted to Apache and Netscape conf files.  For IIS, there
>might be a need to Map .cfm to
>C:\CFusionMX\runtime\lib\wsconfig\1\jrun.dll in your IIS console.  To
>apply the instruction, please go to START > SETTINGS > CONTROL PANEL >
>ADMINISTRATIVE TOOLS > INTERNET SERVICES MANAGER.  Double click on the
>computer icon/name. Right click on the Default website, or onto the
>virtual site you need to define the mapping, and select properties.
>Click on the Home Directory tab and click on the Configuration button.
>This is where internet documents are mapped, by their extension, and
>this is where you will need to apply Step # 10.
>11) If you did not delete or rename your old CFIDE and CFDOCS folders
>from your webroot, please rename/delete them now and copy the CFIDE and
>CFDOCS folders from \wwwroot to your webroot.
>12) Try launching the CFMX Administrator using the port of your web
>server.
>
>[snip]
>
>
>
~|
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Re: WOT OS X CLI Set Display Resolution

[Dick Applebaum]

Yeah, Dave

Both JRun and CFMXJ2EE will install fine from the CLI.

Only problem is that I want to write this up with screen shots, etc. --  
so I need to use the GUI

Thanks, though

Dick


On Friday, March 7, 2003, at 09:24  PM, Dave Watts wrote:

>> I have a great opportunity to get on an OS X Xserve server
>> this weekend. I am using a VPN with a VNC Viewer client. I
>> am trying to install CFMX for J2EE and JRun.
>>
>> Everything was going fine until I used the OS X menubar
>> (system prefs) program to reset the display resolution
>> (from 1024x768 to 800x600) so I could see the Xserve
>> window along side the OS X desktop on my TiBook.
>>
>> The display reset barfed & the VNC Viewer shows a garbled
>> screen.
>>
>> I can still access the Xserve vis SSH from the CLI.
>>
>> Anybody know how to run the program that sets display
>> resolution from the CLI?
>>
>> Any help will be greatly appreciated as I don't want to
>> blow this opportunity.
>
> I don't know the first thing about that, but I think you can install  
> JRun
> and CFMX from a command line - at least, you can on Solaris. It's  
> relatively
> common to be able to do that on Unix platforms, since they often have  
> no
> monitor or GUI configured.
>
> Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
> http://www.figleaf.com/
> voice: (202) 797-5496
> fax: (202) 797-5444
>
> 
~|
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Still can't connect to IIs anyone know why?

[Michael Kear]

Thanks for your help, James, all went well following your procedure till
I got to step 8.  I double clicked the connector.bat file, and got the
following error message: 

[quote]
File C:\CFusionMX\runtime\lib\wsconfig\jrunwin32.dll newer than JAR file
C:\CFusionMX\runtime\lib\wsconfig.jar so not extracted\
[/quote]

Therefore nothing following could work.  There is no \wsconfig\1 folder,
and therefore no contents there.

Why does the release package have an incompatible version of
jrunwin32.dll in it?  What are we supposed to do about that then? 

It means the product, as delivered from the Macromedia site doesn't work
with IIs.

Anyone have any idea what to do about that? 


Cheers,
Michael Kear
Windsor, NSW, Australia
AFP Webworks.





-Original Message-
From: James Blaha [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, 8 March 2003 7:42 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Installation problem with MX - HELP!!

Below is an easy step-by-step configuration approach for windows web
server configuration. Applicable for IIS, Apache and iPlanet.  Please
ignore steps that do not apply.

1) Stop your web server.
2) Please uninstall CFMX, 
3) Delete any registry key for HKLM\Software\Macromedia\ColdFusion, 
4) Delete the  and rename the CFIDE and CFDOCS
from your IIS webroot.
5) Reboot your machine.  
6) On reinstalling CFMX, please use the stand alone webserver that came
with CFMX.
7) Try to access the CFMX Administrator on port 8500.
8) From your \Bin\Connectors folder, double click on the
particular connector you wish to work with CFMX.  If you receive an
error stating that Jrun is not started, please close the DOS window and
launch C:\CFusionMX\Bin\cfstart.bat then launch the _connector.bat
again.
9) A directory C:\CFusionMX\runtime\lib\wsconfig\1, should have been
created with jrun.dll for IIS, mod_jrun.so for Apache and
jrun_nsapi35.dll inside the 1 directory.
10) Please verify from your CF documentation on what entries should have
been created/inserted to Apache and Netscape conf files.  For IIS, there
might be a need to Map .cfm to
C:\CFusionMX\runtime\lib\wsconfig\1\jrun.dll in your IIS console.  To
apply the instruction, please go to START > SETTINGS > CONTROL PANEL >
ADMINISTRATIVE TOOLS > INTERNET SERVICES MANAGER.  Double click on the
computer icon/name. Right click on the Default website, or onto the
virtual site you need to define the mapping, and select properties.
Click on the Home Directory tab and click on the Configuration button.
This is where internet documents are mapped, by their extension, and
this is where you will need to apply Step # 10.
11) If you did not delete or rename your old CFIDE and CFDOCS folders
from your webroot, please rename/delete them now and copy the CFIDE and
CFDOCS folders from \wwwroot to your webroot.
12) Try launching the CFMX Administrator using the port of your web
server.

[snip]


~|
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RE: WOT OS X CLI Set Display Resolution

[Dave Watts]

> I have a great opportunity to get on an OS X Xserve server 
> this weekend. I am using a VPN with a VNC Viewer client. I 
> am trying to install CFMX for J2EE and JRun.
> 
> Everything was going fine until I used the OS X menubar 
> (system prefs) program to reset the display resolution 
> (from 1024x768 to 800x600) so I could see the Xserve 
> window along side the OS X desktop on my TiBook.
> 
> The display reset barfed & the VNC Viewer shows a garbled 
> screen.
> 
> I can still access the Xserve vis SSH from the CLI.
> 
> Anybody know how to run the program that sets display 
> resolution from the CLI?
> 
> Any help will be greatly appreciated as I don't want to 
> blow this opportunity.

I don't know the first thing about that, but I think you can install JRun
and CFMX from a command line - at least, you can on Solaris. It's relatively
common to be able to do that on Unix platforms, since they often have no
monitor or GUI configured.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444

~|
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RE: The New Macromedia Website(ODBC)

[Dave Watts]

> I am NOT saying "ANY".. software is not perfect!. We are 
> not talking about one specific issue... CFMX has had numerous 
> issues... (Check Updater Docs... if you want to start counting 
> them)

Every complex software product I've ever seen has numerous bugs. I'm not
sure why you'd expect CFMX to be any different.

> > My solution is to find the best way to solve a problem. 
> > If JDBC-ODBC doesn't work well in CFMX, but "pure" JDBC 
> > does, my solution may well be to recommend "pure" JDBC.
> 
> Yes.. JDBC is a Solution/Alternative.. Not a fix to the 
> software(cfmx) BUG.
> 
> Example...CFMX had COM Issues...am not sure where it 
> stands now... Any COM functionality can be replicated 
> very well through a Java Bean.. So in your theory...
> Instead of MM fixing COM issues... you probably will 
> ask all your developers to re-write every COM in a 
> Java Bean?
> 
> You have really have interesting theories.

No, I don't have any theories, just observations. If there are two ways to
do something, and one works better than the other, I'll recommend the one
that works. If I need COM interoperability, I might not recommend a CFMX
solution. For that matter, I might not recommend CF 5 for that, either. But
I'm not going to wait for perfection from any vendor.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444

~|
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WOT OS X CLI Set Display Resolution

[Dick Applebaum]

I have a great opportunity to get on an OS X Xserve server this 
weekend.  I am using a VPN with a VNC Viewer client.  I am trying to 
install CFMX for J2EE and JRun.

Everything was going fine until I used the OS X menubar (system prefs) 
program to reset the display resolution (from 1024x768 to 800x600) so I 
could see the Xserve window along side the OS X desktop on my TiBook.

The display reset barfed & the VNC Viewer shows a garbled screen.

I can still access the Xserve vis SSH from the CLI.

Anybody know how to run the program that sets display resolution from 
the CLI?

Any help will be greatly appreciated as I don't want to blow this 
opportunity.

TIA

Dick

~|
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Re: The New Macromedia Website(ODBC)

[Kwang Suh]

Mr. Watts can defend himself, but you completely missed the point of his
answer.

- Original Message -
From: "Joe Eugene" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 8:52 PM
Subject: RE: The New Macromedia Website(ODBC)


> > So, you're saying that if there's ANY bug at all in CFMX, it
> > shouldn't have
> > been released
>
> I am NOT saying "ANY".. software is not perfect!. We are not talking
> about one specific issue... CFMX has had numerous issues...
> (Check Updater Docs... if you want to start counting them)
>
> > My solution is to find the best way to solve a problem. If
> > JDBC-ODBC doesn't
> > work well in CFMX, but "pure" JDBC does, my solution may well be to
> > recommend "pure" JDBC.
>
> Yes.. JDBC is a Solution/Alternative.. Not a fix to the software(cfmx)
BUG.
>
> Example...CFMX had COM Issues...am not sure where it stands now...
> Any COM functionality can be replicated very well through a Java Bean..
> So in your theory...Instead of MM fixing COM issues... you probably
> will ask all your developers to re-write every COM in a Java Bean?
>
> You have really have interesting theories.
>
> Joe Eugene
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 6:11 PM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: RE: The New Macromedia Website(ODBC)
> >
> >
> > > > It's another thing to say that the product shouldn't have
> > > > been released because of it.
> > >
> > > It might be your nature to release "BUG"/GY applications...
> > > I Dont operate that way.
> >
> > So, you're saying that if there's ANY bug at all in CFMX, it
> > shouldn't have
> > been released? I'd still be waiting for my bug-free copy of CF 2 then!
And
> > how about my Windows NT 3.51 fixes - I'm still waiting! It's simply not
> > practical to expect any software package of any complexity to have no
bugs
> > at all.
> >
> > > > Most bugs aren't trivial to the people who run into them
> > >
> > > Apparently its Trivial to most developers here...If something
> > > doesnt work.. My solution is to get it fixed... Yours might
> > > be to improve Product Manuals and perhaps buy the User Big
> > > Eye Glasses... not a bad Strategy!.
> >
> > My solution is to find the best way to solve a problem. If
> > JDBC-ODBC doesn't
> > work well in CFMX, but "pure" JDBC does, my solution may well be to
> > recommend "pure" JDBC. If there's some reason that's not acceptable,
then
> > that's a different matter. But I try to keep my expectations realistic.
> >
> > Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
> > http://www.figleaf.com/
> > voice: (202) 797-5496
> > fax: (202) 797-5444
> >
> >
> 
~|
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Re: DHTML/Javascript question

[Kwang Suh]

Try something like this...

This works really nicely with something like the Milonic Menu, which allows
you to place the menu over  elements (don't ask, I don't know how
that works :)



Untitled Document






Menu bar here.



hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello








- Original Message -
From: "Jim McAtee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 4:50 PM
Subject: OT: DHTML/Javascript question


> I've got an intranet site that uses a simple frame construct for
navigation.  It
> has a 60 pixel tall navigation frame across the top of the screen that
uses
> icons and text links, while the working application pages are displayed
below.
> I'd like to convert this to using DHTML drop-down menus within this
navigation
> frame, but obviously (or maybe not so obviously) the drop downs can't drop
over
> the lower frame.  So, instead of using frames, the next move is to just
place a
> strip of drop-down menus across the top of every page.  This is easily
done,
> since all pages use standard header/footer files via cfinclude.
>
> The one thing missing is that the nav frame approach was very handy, in
that it
> was always visible.  Is it possible to position a table (with the
navigation
> bar) across the top of a page, and keep it there even when the rest of the
page
> is scrolled?
>
> Thanks,
> Jim
>
> 
~|
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wait for cfexecute

[Mahmut Basaran]

I'm writing an import / export function with the bcp.exe that comes with sql server. 
When I execute the command via cfexecute, coldfusion doesn't wait for bcp to return a 
response, and continues to process the rest of the command. Is there a workaround for 
this ? may be cflock ?

~|
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RE: The New Macromedia Website(ODBC)

[Joe Eugene]

> So, you're saying that if there's ANY bug at all in CFMX, it
> shouldn't have
> been released

I am NOT saying "ANY".. software is not perfect!. We are not talking
about one specific issue... CFMX has had numerous issues...
(Check Updater Docs... if you want to start counting them)

> My solution is to find the best way to solve a problem. If
> JDBC-ODBC doesn't
> work well in CFMX, but "pure" JDBC does, my solution may well be to
> recommend "pure" JDBC.

Yes.. JDBC is a Solution/Alternative.. Not a fix to the software(cfmx) BUG.

Example...CFMX had COM Issues...am not sure where it stands now...
Any COM functionality can be replicated very well through a Java Bean..
So in your theory...Instead of MM fixing COM issues... you probably
will ask all your developers to re-write every COM in a Java Bean?

You have really have interesting theories.

Joe Eugene



> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 6:11 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: The New Macromedia Website(ODBC)
>
>
> > > It's another thing to say that the product shouldn't have
> > > been released because of it.
> >
> > It might be your nature to release "BUG"/GY applications...
> > I Dont operate that way.
>
> So, you're saying that if there's ANY bug at all in CFMX, it
> shouldn't have
> been released? I'd still be waiting for my bug-free copy of CF 2 then! And
> how about my Windows NT 3.51 fixes - I'm still waiting! It's simply not
> practical to expect any software package of any complexity to have no bugs
> at all.
>
> > > Most bugs aren't trivial to the people who run into them
> >
> > Apparently its Trivial to most developers here...If something
> > doesnt work.. My solution is to get it fixed... Yours might
> > be to improve Product Manuals and perhaps buy the User Big
> > Eye Glasses... not a bad Strategy!.
>
> My solution is to find the best way to solve a problem. If
> JDBC-ODBC doesn't
> work well in CFMX, but "pure" JDBC does, my solution may well be to
> recommend "pure" JDBC. If there's some reason that's not acceptable, then
> that's a different matter. But I try to keep my expectations realistic.
>
> Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
> http://www.figleaf.com/
> voice: (202) 797-5496
> fax: (202) 797-5444
>
> 
~|
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Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?

[Mike Chambers]

That has nothing to do with the developer's exchange.

mike chambers

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

- Original Message - 
From: "samcfug" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?


> http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/subscriptions/
> 
~|
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Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?

[Mike Chambers]

Dev Exchange  Subscription fee? What are you talking about?

Are you confusing this with DevNet Pro? The two are not related at all.

mike chambers

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

- Original Message -
From: "samcfug" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?


> You can request MM to remove your code, and if you still wish to share it
there
> are a number of alternative CF related sites on which to upload it without
> giving up your intellectual property.  Or market it yourself.
>
> MM markets Dev Exchange for a subscription fee - which means it has to
have
> license to distribute all the content for which they are charging a fee.
>
> =
> Douglas White
> group Manager
> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.samcfug.org
> =
> - Original Message -
> From: "Matt Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 6:17 PM
> Subject: Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?
>
>
> | Good grief.  Here is the relevant excerpt from the license agreement.
This
> wasn't there in the past.
> |
> | My cms uses and includes an ActivEdit license.   The license claims I
have
> granted MM the right to use my product's contents for free, and they have
> expressly made me liable for any licensing fees owed for said use (see the
> bottom paragraph).
> |
> | I can live with the non-commercial part -- thats why I upload stuff in
the
> first place.  However acknowledgement should be granted with regard to the
> work's origination.  Mention of this is absent.
> |
> | The final paragraph implies that the preceding para's only take effect
if an
> upload off of MM's servers is the situation, meaning if you force a
download
> from your own site you retain your rights.  However this is vague and
could be
> construed against the developer.
> |
> | *WTF*??
> |
> | --
> |
> | (b) You will indemnify and hold Macromedia harmless from any claim
related to
> the Submission including any claim by a third party that the Submission
> infringes any copyright, patent, trademark, trade secret, rights of
privacy or
> publicity or any other intellectual property right. Your obligation to
indemnify
> Macromedia excludes any claims based on Macromedia-authored software.
> |
> | (c) Non-commercial Submission Only: With respect to the Non-commercial
> Submission only, You hereby grant Macromedia a perpetual, irrevocable,
> royalty-free and worldwide license to use, test, copy, modify, create
derivative
> works of, publicly display, publicly perform, distribute, license,
sublicense,
> offer to sell, sell, rent, lease or lend the Submission.
> |
> | (d) Commercial Submission Only: With respect to the Commercial
Submission
> only, You hereby grant Macromedia a perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free
and
> worldwide license to use, test, copy, modify, create derivative works of,
> publicly display, publicly perform or demonstrate the Submission, and/or
place a
> link to a website in connection with such Submission.
> |
> | IF YOU DO NOT OWN OR HAVE RIGHTS TO EVERY ELEMENT OF YOUR SUBMISSIONS
> (EXCLUDING ANY MACROMEDIA-AUTHORED SOFTWARE), DO NOT UPLOAD THE
SUBMISSIONS TO
> MACROMEDIA. YOU WILL BE FINANCIALLY LIABLE TO ANY THIRD PARTY THAT OWNS
ANY
> ELEMENT OF YOUR EXTENSIONS!
> |
> |
> |
> |
> 
~|
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RE: The New Macromedia Website(ODBC)

[Jim Davis]

> We have a completely new search system in place now, so that 
> may address some of your concerns.

I haven't checked it out yet.  No problems in the last few days.  ;^)

But if it works, GREAT!  I do agree with the other posters that bugs
should get special treatment in the knowledge base - even quasi
"documentation bugs" like setting up MX for multiple hosts and whatnot.

Jim Davis


~|
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RE: Linkpoint

[Matthew Fusfield]

FWIW, I was able to get the Linkpoint basic service working with CF today.

For the archives, here's what needed to be done. I wasn't able to get much help from 
their tech support, but the user manual at www.linkpoint.com was a good reference to 
work off of. (according to it this type of operation *is* supported)

Basically, linkpoint basic seems to work a lot like PayPal can - you assemble your 
cart and pass data over to their web server. They have a few options for how much they 
handle on their site vs what you handle on your site, but thats the basic idea.  (the 
idea is:  [Your web site] ---> [Linkpoint pay page] ---> [Your web site])

They have a form variable that you can submit that basically tells it that it is 
talking to a CGI application instead of being passed via URL reference to the web 
browser. While this works OK, there are a few gotcha's involved:

1) Their gateway script checks the Referer. Since CFHTTP doesn't send one by default, 
you need to add a CFHTTPPARAM of type CGI called Referer. You can set this to anything 
that looks like a URL, it doesn't need to be valid, although I'd suggest using your 
own domain name, etc.

Next you need to set this URL as the URL that Linkpoint thinks your payment form is 
at. The gotcha is that CFHTTP sends everything URL encoded, so basically URL encode 
the URL you come up with above and enter THAT into the Linkpoint admin tool

2) Grabbing the data coming BACK from the gateway (transaction status, etc) is a bit 
tricky as well. Since the gateway is really designed for a browser, the response page 
includes a form that can post the result back to your web server. 

The Linkpoint admin tool has two more spaces for URLs - one for a "thank you" page and 
another for a "sorry" page. Again, as long as whatever you enter in looks like a valid 
URL everything should work OK (although note the URLs you put in) There is also a 
checkbox for each indicating that they are a CGI script; make sure that is checked. 
(these URL's don't need to be URL encoded)

These URLs are used in the return page that the gateway generates when you post to it. 
We ran a script (Thanks Ryan!) that parses out all the  tags that 
contain the data that the gateway is intending to use the browser to post back to the 
web server. We also check which URL the  tag is pointed to so we know if this is 
a success or not. (if its pointing to the "sorry" page, there has been an error, 
otherwise if we get the "thank you" page URL everything worked)

We then capture the parsed data and update our database accordingly. The whole thing 
works in less than 2-3 seconds, which isn't too bad considering whats going on in the 
background.

So far I'm pretty happy with Linkpoint; took a bit of tinkering around. I believe the 
API can provide more functionality (returns and credits) but if all you need is a 
quick way of charging something this works pretty well. (linkpoint's own admin tool 
can do returns and the like, of course)

-Matt


> -Original Message-
> From: Jason Miller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 8:39 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: Linkpoint
> 
> 
> Thanks for posting that - I'm sure it will prove awfully useful when
> reading the API documentation. I haven't implemented anything with
> linkpoint for 2 years.. so refresh is a big help.
> look at that - didn't even post a question and got my answer :)
> 
> jay
> 
> Ezine wrote:
> 
> 
> Jason,
> 
> 
> 
> It is relatively expensive to set up an API account..   though I have
> seen
> 
> it for as low as $500.
> 
> 
> 
> The Actual API is extremely complicated :)..'C++' Libraries 
> are provided
> for
> 
> free for anyone who wants to make one.. but they also offer the
> 
> API/wrapper as a separate product(an additional $40)   It is also
> extremely
> 
> fast..   and a C++ CFX_Custom Tag.   It also does Tax Calculation,
> virtual
> 
> check, address verification service,   Zone based Shipping.
> 
> 
> 
> It does do Recurring transactions!
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.linkpoint.com/product_solutions/internet/linkpoints
> electapi/l
> pa_m
>  selectapi/
> lpa_m> 
> 
> ain.html
> 
> 
> 
> sorry if this wraps ;).
> 
> 
> 
> The CFX tag uses a query data type to return the product data back to
> the
> 
> LinkPoint So you must Create that Query using the queryNew function
> 
> Ex:
> 
>  ITEMQTY")>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> "#description#")>
> 
> 
> 
>  #retailpricen#)>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is some example code using the CFX tag:
> 
> This code has had the Item and Customer queries removed for security
> 
> purposes so IT WON'T work out of the box..   you will need to grab the
> parts
> 
> that help you understand the Linkpoint CFX_ API.
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
>pdate='#dateformat(now(),"mmdd")##timeformat(

RE: Installation problem with MX - HELP!!

[Dave Watts]

> I installed CFMX to run off its own standalone web server 
> as the docs say. It did run but so appallingly slowly, that 
> I felt I had to pull it down and install it again as the 
> only CF server on my system, replacing the CF5. And I'll 
> just have to be very careful with the tags I use for my 
> CF5 clients.

For development purposes, there's no reason why you can't have both CFMX and
CF 5 installed and running, even if you want them to both use IIS. If you
think the load that one is getting may be affecting the other, you can just
turn either off. Neither one will directly interfere with the other, as long
as your web server is configured properly.

However, if you're running Windows XP Professional, I think it'll only let
you have one virtual server, in which case you'd want to set up only one or
the other to run through IIS. You don't have to uninstall either one to make
this happen, though.

> But installing this second time after removing CFMX didn't 
> work. THAT's my problem. I have an incomplete installation 
> and I don't know what to do.

If you uninstall the web server connector, delete the CFusionMX directory,
and reinstall CFMX, you shouldn't have any problems. During the install,
rather than selecting IIS as your web server, select "standalone" and
configure the web server connector after the install has completed
successfully.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444

~|
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RE: Installation problem with MX - HELP!!

[Michael Kear]

Thank you James.  I'll have a go at your process this afternoon instead
of watching the motor racing ( such is the fun of running a one-man
business).

If I'm going to install CFMX as the only CF server on my machine, should
I still use the standalone web server?  

Does anyone have CF5 and CFMX running on the same machine?  I installed
them both and they both worked but at a crawl, even with 950MB RAM on my
machine.


Cheers,
Michael Kear
Windsor, NSW, Australia
AFP Webworks.





-Original Message-
From: James Blaha [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, 8 March 2003 7:42 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Installation problem with MX - HELP!!

Below is an easy step-by-step configuration approach for windows web
server configuration. Applicable for IIS, Apache and iPlanet.  Please
ignore steps that do not apply.

1) Stop your web server.
2) Please uninstall CFMX, 
3) Delete any registry key for HKLM\Software\Macromedia\ColdFusion, 
4) Delete the  and rename the CFIDE and CFDOCS
from your IIS webroot.
5) Reboot your machine.  
6) On reinstalling CFMX, please use the stand alone webserver that came
with CFMX.
7) Try to access the CFMX Administrator on port 8500.
8) From your \Bin\Connectors folder, double click on the
particular connector you wish to work with CFMX.  If you receive an
error stating that Jrun is not started, please close the DOS window and
launch C:\CFusionMX\Bin\cfstart.bat then launch the _connector.bat
again.
9) A directory C:\CFusionMX\runtime\lib\wsconfig\1, should have been
created with jrun.dll for IIS, mod_jrun.so for Apache and
jrun_nsapi35.dll inside the 1 directory.
10) Please verify from your CF documentation on what entries should have
been created/inserted to Apache and Netscape conf files.  For IIS, there
might be a need to Map .cfm to
C:\CFusionMX\runtime\lib\wsconfig\1\jrun.dll in your IIS console.  To
apply the instruction, please go to START > SETTINGS > CONTROL PANEL >
ADMINISTRATIVE TOOLS > INTERNET SERVICES MANAGER.  Double click on the
computer icon/name. Right click on the Default website, or onto the
virtual site you need to define the mapping, and select properties.
Click on the Home Directory tab and click on the Configuration button.
This is where internet documents are mapped, by their extension, and
this is where you will need to apply Step # 10.
11) If you did not delete or rename your old CFIDE and CFDOCS folders
from your webroot, please rename/delete them now and copy the CFIDE and
CFDOCS folders from \wwwroot to your webroot.
12) Try launching the CFMX Administrator using the port of your web
server.



Bryan Stevenson wrote:

>Man I'd stop slagging people for not helping or not caring..it's not
going
>to get you any help.  It could simply be that nobody has an answer for
you.
>
>IMHO you should not install a new CF Server in the last 30 minutes of
your
>daythat's your oversight and not ours.
>
>Why did you want them to co-exist in the first place?
>
>Did you try and install CFMX to run through IIS along with CF 5 or did
you
>try and install it to run off the standalone server?  AFAIK it can only
>co-exist with previous CF versions if it runs through the standalone
server.
>
>Have you tried tech support?
>
>Bryan Stevenson B.Comm.
>VP & Director of E-Commerce Development
>Electric Edge Systems Group Inc.
>t. 250.920.8830
>e. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>-
>Macromedia Associate Partner
>www.macromedia.com
>-
>Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group
>Founder & Director
>www.cfug-vancouverisland.com
>- Original Message -
>From: "Michael Kear" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 10:10 AM
>Subject: RE: Installation problem with MX - HELP!!
>
>
>  
>
>>Well I think I have no choice but to give up.  I have been trying to
get
>>someone  to help with my problem for 3and a half hours now, and its
>>after 5am Saturday. I still have a partial installation of CFMX. It
>>doesn't work and nor does my previous CF5.0.  What began at 9pm last
>>night as what I thought would be a 20-30 minute job before stopping
work
>>has turned into an 8 hour nightmare with no sign of any solution.
>>
>>No one seems to be able to see what my problem is.  All I've had in
the
>>last 3.5 hours is either "calm down and fix your problem" or "rtm" or
>>being told to do something that's at least 4 steps past where the
>>installation got to.
>>
>>
>>The problem is this:  I was stupid enough to believe the Macromedia
docs
>>when they said CFMX could coexist on a winXPPRO system with CF5.0.
When
>>it proved that it would work but only if you measure response times
with
>>a calendar, I decided to bite the bullet and go for CFMX on my Dev
>>server rather than both servers.   I removed the CFMX, and reinstalled
>>it according to the installation instructions on the Macromedia site.
>>Out of 11 steps, it got to step 7 and won't go furth

Re: Linkpoint

[Jason Miller]

Thanks for posting that - I'm sure it will prove awfully useful when
reading the API documentation. I haven't implemented anything with
linkpoint for 2 years.. so refresh is a big help.
look at that - didn't even post a question and got my answer :)

jay

Ezine wrote:


Jason,



It is relatively expensive to set up an API account..   though I have
seen

it for as low as $500.



The Actual API is extremely complicated :)..'C++' Libraries are provided
for

free for anyone who wants to make one.. but they also offer the

API/wrapper as a separate product(an additional $40)   It is also
extremely

fast..   and a C++ CFX_Custom Tag.   It also does Tax Calculation,
virtual

check, address verification service,   Zone based Shipping.



It does do Recurring transactions!



http://www.linkpoint.com/product_solutions/internet/linkpointselectapi/l
pa_m
 

ain.html



sorry if this wraps ;).



The CFX tag uses a query data type to return the product data back to
the

LinkPoint So you must Create that Query using the queryNew function

Ex:























Here is some example code using the CFX tag:

This code has had the Item and Customer queries removed for security

purposes so IT WON'T work out of the box..   you will need to grab the
parts

that help you understand the Linkpoint CFX_ API.



 

 

 

 

 

 



 

 

 

 



 

 

 



 

















































Data contains errors, Please Update data.



Results Truncated, Fields too long. Update data.



Gateway temporarily down for updates. Your credit card has NOT
been

charged.



Unknown SQL error.  Your credit card has NOT been charged.

 



Unable to decode gateway answer. Your credit card has NOT been
charged.





Error communicating with gateway.  Your credit card has NOT been
charged.





Invalid Credit Card Number.  Check your credit card.



Invalid Month,  Enter the Expiration Month on the card.



Invalid Year, Enter the Expiration Year on the card.



Sorry, That credit card type is not supported, Please make
sure your

card has a Visa/MasterCard Logo.



While processing your Credit card,  An unknown error
occured. Your

credit card has NOT been charged.

 





While processing your Credit card, An unknown error
occured.  Your

credit card has NOT been charged.

 







 









 























mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  from=
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]"   subject="AN ORDER

ERRORED AND CREDIT CARD HAS BEEN CHARGED!!!">

CREDIT CARD HAS BEEN BILLED.

PROMPT ATTENTION REQUIRED!



Information about the order:

Cookie-ID=#cookie.user#



LOST track of their User entry in the database.  Technically..  this

shouldn't happen since it was just inserted 3 miliseconds ago.

The only reason for this is a corrupt database.  See An Administrator so
he

can fix the corrupt database.



Customer=#txnid#

Telephone=#trim(telephone1)#





Item: #itemcontext.itemid#   Qty: #itemcontext.ITEMQTY#  Price:

#itemcontext.ITEMPRICE#







TOTAL:#total#

Retail-SUBTOTAL:#subtotal#

TAX: #tax#

WHOLESALE:#wholesalep#

SHIPPING:#sh#













<





mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  from=
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]"   subject="AN ORDER

ERRORED AND CREDIT CARD HAS BEEN CHARGED!!!">

CREDIT CARD HAS BEEN BILLED.

PROMPT ATTENTION REQUIRED!



Information about the order:

Cookie-ID=#cookie.user#



No items found in the database for them.  Technically, this shouldn't

happen.  In a rare circumstance, their cookie could change.  That is the

most likely cause of this error.

Also, This could be caused by a person finalizing an order a second time
and

there was an error sending the e-mail after the order was finalized.



Customer=#txnid#

Telephone=#trim(telephone1)#





Item: #itemcontext.itemid#   Qty: #itemcontext.ITEMQTY#  Price:

#itemcontext.ITEMPRICE#







TOTAL:#total#

Retail-SUBTOTAL:#subtotal#

TAX: #tax#

WHOLESALE:#wholesalep#

SHIPPING:#sh#

































mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  subject="Your Online Product

Order">

#fname# #lname#,



Thank you for your online order





Shipping Information---

Address:

#daddress#

#daddress2#

#dcity#, #dstate# #dpostalcode#

#dcountry#



Telephone: #telephone1#



-Billing Information---

Name: #fname# #lname#

E-Mail: #email1#



Credit Card: ---#right(ccnumber,4)#

Address:

#baddress#

#badd

RE: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?

[Matt Robertson]

Actually, requesting a removal of an upload changes nothing since the
new agreement states the license is "perpetual" and "irrevocable".
However most if all of my uploads pre-date this new agreement, so I'd
want to hear if MM feels it applies retroactively.

And that subscription fee you mention is for specific things that aren't
covered by the uploads available in the Dev Exchange.  They don't give
out copies of the devexes from what I can see.

I'd be pleased to have MM use my tools, and say so, although it'd be
arrogant for me to think they needed anything I'm selling :).  I'd be
happy to grant use, but these terms don't seem reasonable when taken at
face value.


 Matt Robertson   [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 MSB Designs, Inc.  http://mysecretbase.com


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Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?

[samcfug]

Could be at that - not the first time I have been confused! 

=
Douglas White
group Manager
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.samcfug.org
=
- Original Message -
From: "Todd Rafferty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 7:24 PM
Subject: Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?


| Doug,
|
| I think you're confusing DevNET with DevEX.  The others are talking about
| the tag gallery, etc.
|
| ~Todd
|
|
| At 07:19 PM 3/7/2003 -0600, you wrote:
| >http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/subscriptions/
| >
| >=
| >Douglas White
| >group Manager
| >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| >http://www.samcfug.org
| >=
| >- Original Message -
| >From: "Bryan Stevenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| >To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| >Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 7:15 PM
| >Subject: Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?
| >
| >
| >| A subscription fee??!!  Is that new?  I've never paid and never been asked
| >| to login
| >|
|
|
| --
| Todd Rafferty ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - http://www.web-rat.com/
| Team Macromedia Volunteer for ColdFusion
| http://www.macromedia.com/support/forums/team_macromedia/
| http://www.devmx.com/
|
| --
|
| 
~|
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RE: Installation problem with MX - HELP!!

[Michael Kear]

Thank you for your suggestions Bryan.

Of course it's my own stupid fault for expecting that installing this
version will be as straightforward as every other version of CF I've
installed.  (I've done it about 10 times now with various versions at
different clients - this is my first installation with CFMX).  And yes,
I shouldn't have done it at the end of my day. Never blamed anyone but
myself. But having got in a pickle, I had kind of hoped that I'd be able
to get some help from somewhere.  At 4am there is no one at any tech
support.

I wanted them to coexist because I have clients using CF5 and I want to
move my own hosting business to CFMX.  Therefore I'll have sites on
both.  The docs said you can have them coexist.  So I figured that's a
good way to do it. I wont end up designing things for my CF5 clients
that don't work when I load them up on their servers.  No one and none
of the docs said that this configuration runs at minutes per page, even
with 950MB RAM.

I installed CFMX to run off its own standalone web server as the docs
say. It did run but so appallingly slowly, that I felt I had to pull it
down and install it again as the only CF server on my system, replacing
the CF5.  And I'll just have to be very careful with the tags I use for
my CF5 clients.

But installing this second time after removing CFMX didn't work.  THAT's
my problem. I have an incomplete installation and I don't know what to
do. 

No I haven't tried tech support.  They aren't there.  Wont be until
Monday. 

Unless you know a tech support that I don't. 


Cheers,
Michael Kear
Windsor, NSW, Australia
AFP Webworks.





-Original Message-
From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, 8 March 2003 5:29 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Installation problem with MX - HELP!!

Man I'd stop slagging people for not helping or not caring..it's not
going
to get you any help.  It could simply be that nobody has an answer for
you.

IMHO you should not install a new CF Server in the last 30 minutes of
your
daythat's your oversight and not ours.

Why did you want them to co-exist in the first place?

Did you try and install CFMX to run through IIS along with CF 5 or did
you
try and install it to run off the standalone server?  AFAIK it can only
co-exist with previous CF versions if it runs through the standalone
server.

Have you tried tech support?

Bryan Stevenson B.Comm.
VP & Director of E-Commerce Development
Electric Edge Systems Group Inc.
t. 250.920.8830
e. [EMAIL PROTECTED]


- Original Message -
From: "Michael Kear" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 10:10 AM
Subject: RE: Installation problem with MX - HELP!!


> Well I think I have no choice but to give up.  I have been trying to
get
> someone  to help with my problem for 3and a half hours now, and its
> after 5am Saturday. I still have a partial installation of CFMX. It
> doesn't work and nor does my previous CF5.0.  What began at 9pm last
> night as what I thought would be a 20-30 minute job before stopping
work
> has turned into an 8 hour nightmare with no sign of any solution.
>
> No one seems to be able to see what my problem is.  All I've had in
the
> last 3.5 hours is either "calm down and fix your problem" or "rtm" or
> being told to do something that's at least 4 steps past where the
> installation got to.
>
>
> The problem is this:  I was stupid enough to believe the Macromedia
docs
> when they said CFMX could coexist on a winXPPRO system with CF5.0.
When
> it proved that it would work but only if you measure response times
with
> a calendar, I decided to bite the bullet and go for CFMX on my Dev
> server rather than both servers.   I removed the CFMX, and reinstalled
> it according to the installation instructions on the Macromedia site.
> Out of 11 steps, it got to step 7 and won't go further.  NO one has
> seemed to grasp this notion so far.
>
>
> I think I am going to have to tear down all my CF server stuff, and
> rebuild CF5.0 from scratch, then probably have to redo all my DSNs too
> because last time I installed CF it broke all the DSN settings. It'll
do
> it again probably.   Somehow I'll have to figure out which Macromedia
> registry keys are for Fireworks, which for DWMX, which for FlashMX so
I
> can leave those there, and which are for CFMX and which for CF5.0.
>
>
> I just apologise for having such a boring problem that no one wants to
> bother with it any more.   I tried to look in House of Fusion's
archives
> for IIs or CFMX but you get fifty gazillion entries.
>
>
> This list is becoming very clique-plagued.   Unless you're one of the
> inner circle on this list, its difficult to get a question answered.
> I'm sorry about that because it has been a wonderful resource over the
> last 3 years as I learned about ColdFusion.  Now it's next-to-useless
> because it's all about CFMX,  I don't have CFMX, and it seems no one
> will help me GET CFMX either.
>
>
> SO back to CF5.0 I go

RE: Installation problem Wont ANYONE help?????

[Michael Kear]

Thank you Bryan,  your first post on this subject came in at 0525 -
after I had given up on this exercise after 9 hours and gone to bed.

But thanks for responding anyway.

Cheers,
Michael Kear
Windsor, NSW, Australia
AFP Webworks.

-Original Message-
From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, 8 March 2003 8:16 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Installation problem Wont ANYONE help? 

I tried...you ignored my questionshave a nice weekend ;-)

Bryan Stevenson B.Comm.
VP & Director of E-Commerce Development
Electric Edge Systems Group Inc.
t. 250.920.8830
e. [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-
Macromedia Associate Partner
www.macromedia.com
-
Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group
Founder & Director
www.cfug-vancouverisland.com
- Original Message -
From: "James Blaha" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 11:48 AM
Subject: Installation problem Wont ANYONE help?


> Below is an easy step-by-step configuration approach for windows web
server configuration. Applicable for IIS, Apache and iPlanet.  Please
ignore
steps that do not apply.
>
> 1) Stop your web server.
> 2) Please uninstall CFMX,
> 3) Delete any registry key for HKLM\Software\Macromedia\ColdFusion,
> 4) Delete the  and rename the CFIDE and CFDOCS
from
your IIS webroot.
> 5) Reboot your machine.
> 6) On reinstalling CFMX, please use the stand alone webserver that
came
with CFMX.
> 7) Try to access the CFMX Administrator on port 8500.
> 8) From your \Bin\Connectors folder, double click on the
particular connector you wish to work with CFMX.  If you receive an
error
stating that Jrun is not started, please close the DOS window and launch
C:\CFusionMX\Bin\cfstart.bat then launch the _connector.bat again.
> 9) A directory C:\CFusionMX\runtime\lib\wsconfig\1, should have been
created with jrun.dll for IIS, mod_jrun.so for Apache and
jrun_nsapi35.dll
inside the 1 directory.
> 10) Please verify from your CF documentation on what entries should
have
been created/inserted to Apache and Netscape conf files.  For IIS, there
might be a need to Map .cfm to
C:\CFusionMX\runtime\lib\wsconfig\1\jrun.dll
in your IIS console.  To apply the instruction, please go to START >
SETTINGS > CONTROL PANEL > ADMINISTRATIVE TOOLS > INTERNET SERVICES
MANAGER.
Double click on the computer icon/name. Right click on the Default
website,
or onto the virtual site you need to define the mapping, and select
properties.  Click on the Home Directory tab and click on the
Configuration
button.  This is where internet documents are mapped, by their
extension,
and this is where you will need to apply Step # 10.
> 11) If you did not delete or rename your old CFIDE and CFDOCS folders
from
your webroot, please rename/delete them now and copy the CFIDE and
CFDOCS
folders from \wwwroot to your webroot.
> 12) Try launching the CFMX Administrator using the port of your web
server.
> 

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Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?

[Todd Rafferty]

Doug,

I think you're confusing DevNET with DevEX.  The others are talking about 
the tag gallery, etc.

~Todd


At 07:19 PM 3/7/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/subscriptions/
>
>=
>Douglas White
>group Manager
>mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>http://www.samcfug.org
>=
>- Original Message -
>From: "Bryan Stevenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 7:15 PM
>Subject: Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?
>
>
>| A subscription fee??!!  Is that new?  I've never paid and never been asked
>| to login
>|


--
Todd Rafferty ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - http://www.web-rat.com/
Team Macromedia Volunteer for ColdFusion
http://www.macromedia.com/support/forums/team_macromedia/
http://www.devmx.com/

--

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RE: XML settings files for CF apps

[Dave Watts]

> I don't think converting parameters to XML in itself 
> separates parameters from code any better than if you 
> simply had a settings file with a bunch of cfsets.

No, but it lets you parse it from any other environment, and you don't have
to write any real parsing code.

> Also a .xml file is a security problem. How do you stop 
> anybody viewing it?

Don't put it in a web-accessible directory?

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444

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Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?

[samcfug]

http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/subscriptions/

=
Douglas White
group Manager
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.samcfug.org
=
- Original Message -
From: "Bryan Stevenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 7:15 PM
Subject: Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?


| A subscription fee??!!  Is that new?  I've never paid and never been asked
| to login
|
| -confused on Friday ;-)
|
| Bryan Stevenson B.Comm.
| VP & Director of E-Commerce Development
| Electric Edge Systems Group Inc.
| t. 250.920.8830
| e. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|
| -
| Macromedia Associate Partner
| www.macromedia.com
| -
| Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group
| Founder & Director
| www.cfug-vancouverisland.com
| - Original Message -
| From: "samcfug" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 4:54 PM
| Subject: Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?
|
|
| > You can request MM to remove your code, and if you still wish to share it
| there
| > are a number of alternative CF related sites on which to upload it without
| > giving up your intellectual property.  Or market it yourself.
| >
| > MM markets Dev Exchange for a subscription fee - which means it has to
| have
| > license to distribute all the content for which they are charging a fee.
| >
| > =
| > Douglas White
| > group Manager
| > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| > http://www.samcfug.org
| > =
| > - Original Message -
| > From: "Matt Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| > Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 6:17 PM
| > Subject: Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?
| >
| >
| > | Good grief.  Here is the relevant excerpt from the license agreement.
| This
| > wasn't there in the past.
| > |
| > | My cms uses and includes an ActivEdit license.   The license claims I
| have
| > granted MM the right to use my product's contents for free, and they have
| > expressly made me liable for any licensing fees owed for said use (see the
| > bottom paragraph).
| > |
| > | I can live with the non-commercial part -- thats why I upload stuff in
| the
| > first place.  However acknowledgement should be granted with regard to the
| > work's origination.  Mention of this is absent.
| > |
| > | The final paragraph implies that the preceding para's only take effect
| if an
| > upload off of MM's servers is the situation, meaning if you force a
| download
| > from your own site you retain your rights.  However this is vague and
| could be
| > construed against the developer.
| > |
| > | *WTF*??
| > |
| > | --
| > |
| > | (b) You will indemnify and hold Macromedia harmless from any claim
| related to
| > the Submission including any claim by a third party that the Submission
| > infringes any copyright, patent, trademark, trade secret, rights of
| privacy or
| > publicity or any other intellectual property right. Your obligation to
| indemnify
| > Macromedia excludes any claims based on Macromedia-authored software.
| > |
| > | (c) Non-commercial Submission Only: With respect to the Non-commercial
| > Submission only, You hereby grant Macromedia a perpetual, irrevocable,
| > royalty-free and worldwide license to use, test, copy, modify, create
| derivative
| > works of, publicly display, publicly perform, distribute, license,
| sublicense,
| > offer to sell, sell, rent, lease or lend the Submission.
| > |
| > | (d) Commercial Submission Only: With respect to the Commercial
| Submission
| > only, You hereby grant Macromedia a perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free
| and
| > worldwide license to use, test, copy, modify, create derivative works of,
| > publicly display, publicly perform or demonstrate the Submission, and/or
| place a
| > link to a website in connection with such Submission.
| > |
| > | IF YOU DO NOT OWN OR HAVE RIGHTS TO EVERY ELEMENT OF YOUR SUBMISSIONS
| > (EXCLUDING ANY MACROMEDIA-AUTHORED SOFTWARE), DO NOT UPLOAD THE
| SUBMISSIONS TO
| > MACROMEDIA. YOU WILL BE FINANCIALLY LIABLE TO ANY THIRD PARTY THAT OWNS
| ANY
| > ELEMENT OF YOUR EXTENSIONS!
| > |
| > |
| > |
| > |
| >
| 
~|
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RE: PDF creation

[Todd Rafferty]

Again, yes, just the htmldoc needs to be installed.  That's it.  If you 
don't want to install it, I'm sure you can find the ghtmldoc.exe extension 
by ripping apart that download and looking for it.  Once you're done, you 
can roll your own CFMX code to execute it.

I created a pdfio.cfc that interfaces with ghtmldoc.exe.. you can find it:
http://www.web-rat.com/Downloads/cfmx/pdfio.zip

~Todd

At 07:39 PM 3/7/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>Well... I guess... does the web server need any software installed to
>have this PDF creation method work? ... I haven't played with this yet



--
Todd Rafferty ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - http://www.web-rat.com/
Team Macromedia Volunteer for ColdFusion
http://www.macromedia.com/support/forums/team_macromedia/
http://www.devmx.com/

--

~|
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RE: The New Macromedia Website(ODBC)

[Debbie Dickerson]

Hallelujah (about your search results, that is). :-)

Deb

-Original Message-
From: Massimo, Tiziana e Federica [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 7:52 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: The New Macromedia Website(ODBC)


I am not especially happy about the new website, but the search capabilities
are drastically improved (they were often worthless in the past). I still
have to use the new search more and try something more esoteric, but I can
say for sure it's *much* better. I encourage to give it a try


Massimo Foti
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver
Certified Dreamweaver MX Developer
Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer
http://www.macromedia.com/go/team

~|
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Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?

[Bryan Stevenson]

A subscription fee??!!  Is that new?  I've never paid and never been asked
to login

-confused on Friday ;-)

Bryan Stevenson B.Comm.
VP & Director of E-Commerce Development
Electric Edge Systems Group Inc.
t. 250.920.8830
e. [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-
Macromedia Associate Partner
www.macromedia.com
-
Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group
Founder & Director
www.cfug-vancouverisland.com
- Original Message -
From: "samcfug" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?


> You can request MM to remove your code, and if you still wish to share it
there
> are a number of alternative CF related sites on which to upload it without
> giving up your intellectual property.  Or market it yourself.
>
> MM markets Dev Exchange for a subscription fee - which means it has to
have
> license to distribute all the content for which they are charging a fee.
>
> =
> Douglas White
> group Manager
> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.samcfug.org
> =
> - Original Message -
> From: "Matt Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 6:17 PM
> Subject: Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?
>
>
> | Good grief.  Here is the relevant excerpt from the license agreement.
This
> wasn't there in the past.
> |
> | My cms uses and includes an ActivEdit license.   The license claims I
have
> granted MM the right to use my product's contents for free, and they have
> expressly made me liable for any licensing fees owed for said use (see the
> bottom paragraph).
> |
> | I can live with the non-commercial part -- thats why I upload stuff in
the
> first place.  However acknowledgement should be granted with regard to the
> work's origination.  Mention of this is absent.
> |
> | The final paragraph implies that the preceding para's only take effect
if an
> upload off of MM's servers is the situation, meaning if you force a
download
> from your own site you retain your rights.  However this is vague and
could be
> construed against the developer.
> |
> | *WTF*??
> |
> | --
> |
> | (b) You will indemnify and hold Macromedia harmless from any claim
related to
> the Submission including any claim by a third party that the Submission
> infringes any copyright, patent, trademark, trade secret, rights of
privacy or
> publicity or any other intellectual property right. Your obligation to
indemnify
> Macromedia excludes any claims based on Macromedia-authored software.
> |
> | (c) Non-commercial Submission Only: With respect to the Non-commercial
> Submission only, You hereby grant Macromedia a perpetual, irrevocable,
> royalty-free and worldwide license to use, test, copy, modify, create
derivative
> works of, publicly display, publicly perform, distribute, license,
sublicense,
> offer to sell, sell, rent, lease or lend the Submission.
> |
> | (d) Commercial Submission Only: With respect to the Commercial
Submission
> only, You hereby grant Macromedia a perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free
and
> worldwide license to use, test, copy, modify, create derivative works of,
> publicly display, publicly perform or demonstrate the Submission, and/or
place a
> link to a website in connection with such Submission.
> |
> | IF YOU DO NOT OWN OR HAVE RIGHTS TO EVERY ELEMENT OF YOUR SUBMISSIONS
> (EXCLUDING ANY MACROMEDIA-AUTHORED SOFTWARE), DO NOT UPLOAD THE
SUBMISSIONS TO
> MACROMEDIA. YOU WILL BE FINANCIALLY LIABLE TO ANY THIRD PARTY THAT OWNS
ANY
> ELEMENT OF YOUR EXTENSIONS!
> |
> |
> |
> |
> 
~|
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Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?

[Massimo, Tiziana e Federica]

> We need this clarified by Macromedia, pretty much immediately.  Is this
> correct as reported?  If so it could be a serious problem.

I would just to let you know that DW's extension developers keep asking for
changes to that license since the first day the DW's Exchange was launched
(no joy so far)


Massimo Foti
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver
Certified Dreamweaver MX Developer
Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer
http://www.macromedia.com/go/team



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Re: The New Macromedia Website(ODBC)

[Massimo, Tiziana e Federica]

> I've often thought that Allaire's and now MM's knowledge base was very
> weak.  The articles are very difficult to find due to the poor searching
> and often not specific enough to the many product versions in use.

I am not especially happy about the new website, but the search capabilities
are drastically improved (they were often worthless in the past). I still
have to use the new search more and try something more esoteric, but I can
say for sure it's *much* better. I encourage to give it a try


Massimo Foti
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver
Certified Dreamweaver MX Developer
Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer
http://www.macromedia.com/go/team



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Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?

[samcfug]

You can request MM to remove your code, and if you still wish to share it there
are a number of alternative CF related sites on which to upload it without
giving up your intellectual property.  Or market it yourself.

MM markets Dev Exchange for a subscription fee - which means it has to have
license to distribute all the content for which they are charging a fee.

=
Douglas White
group Manager
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.samcfug.org
=
- Original Message -
From: "Matt Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?


| Good grief.  Here is the relevant excerpt from the license agreement.  This
wasn't there in the past.
|
| My cms uses and includes an ActivEdit license.   The license claims I have
granted MM the right to use my product's contents for free, and they have
expressly made me liable for any licensing fees owed for said use (see the
bottom paragraph).
|
| I can live with the non-commercial part -- thats why I upload stuff in the
first place.  However acknowledgement should be granted with regard to the
work's origination.  Mention of this is absent.
|
| The final paragraph implies that the preceding para's only take effect if an
upload off of MM's servers is the situation, meaning if you force a download
from your own site you retain your rights.  However this is vague and could be
construed against the developer.
|
| *WTF*??
|
| --
|
| (b) You will indemnify and hold Macromedia harmless from any claim related to
the Submission including any claim by a third party that the Submission
infringes any copyright, patent, trademark, trade secret, rights of privacy or
publicity or any other intellectual property right. Your obligation to indemnify
Macromedia excludes any claims based on Macromedia-authored software.
|
| (c) Non-commercial Submission Only: With respect to the Non-commercial
Submission only, You hereby grant Macromedia a perpetual, irrevocable,
royalty-free and worldwide license to use, test, copy, modify, create derivative
works of, publicly display, publicly perform, distribute, license, sublicense,
offer to sell, sell, rent, lease or lend the Submission.
|
| (d) Commercial Submission Only: With respect to the Commercial Submission
only, You hereby grant Macromedia a perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free and
worldwide license to use, test, copy, modify, create derivative works of,
publicly display, publicly perform or demonstrate the Submission, and/or place a
link to a website in connection with such Submission.
|
| IF YOU DO NOT OWN OR HAVE RIGHTS TO EVERY ELEMENT OF YOUR SUBMISSIONS
(EXCLUDING ANY MACROMEDIA-AUTHORED SOFTWARE), DO NOT UPLOAD THE SUBMISSIONS TO
MACROMEDIA. YOU WILL BE FINANCIALLY LIABLE TO ANY THIRD PARTY THAT OWNS ANY
ELEMENT OF YOUR EXTENSIONS!
|
|
|
| 
~|
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RE: Installation problem with MX - HELP!!

[Tim Laureska]

I'll second Andres' sentiment... I'm a relative newbee to CF/web
programming and greatly value the answers I get when the "experts" have
the time to share their knowledge... it's a great resource. With
most things in the tech field, a high level of patience and persistence
is essential 

-Original Message-
From: Andres [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 7:37 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Installation problem with MX - HELP!!

I have been developing web systems using CF for a long time... and yet,
i have A LOT more questions than answers, my ration of questions to
answers may bt 10/1! 

I find this list invaluable in terms of doing every day development... i
have learned massive amounts of tricks, shortcuts, and most importantly,
BEST PRACTICES from the posts that people have introduced here. I thank
everyone, even those like myself who have more questions than answers!

Try to find a list as active and with members as willing to help each
other for ASP, PHP, PERL, VB, C, or any other languange. Good Luck!

that's all i have to say about that!


andres
-Original Message-
From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 6:37 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Installation problem with MX - HELP!!


> > > This list is becoming very clique-plagued. Unless you're
> > > one of the inner circle on this list, its difficult to
> > > get a question answered. I'm sorry about that because
> > > it has been a wonderful resource over the last 3 years
> > > as I learned about ColdFusion.
> >
> > I'm sorry that you feel this way. I don't really think 
> > it's an accurate statement. I do think that people tend 
> > to answer some questions before others, and install 
> > questions again are typically a bit more difficult.
> 
> IMHO he made a very accurate statement. Those of you who are 
> among the most frequent posters on the list are infected with 
> an arrogance and rudeness that is beyond measure. Rarely do 
> you have anything to offer beyond belittling the one asking 
> for assistance. I would strongly recommend that if you do 
> not have anything positive to offer a fellow user, then just 
> delete the message and do not reply at all.

Well, for my own sake, as a frequent poster, I may be arrogant, but I
don't
think I'm ever rude beyond measure, so I'll assume that you're not
directing
your criticism at me. As far as that goes, you're a frequent poster on
the
list, and you don't seem especially rude either. I can think of a bunch
of
other frequent posters here, who I've never seen be rude or even
arrogant. I
would agree with your recommendation, though, about not replying if you
don't have something positive or helpful.

But, in all honesty, I think this list is a lot more friendly than most
I've
seen.

> As one with quite bit of experience in building installar 
> packages with both WISE and InstallShield, it is a relative 
> no-brainer to build your install script to detect the 
> operating system, its current configuration, and then 
> offer a number of options for installation and configuraton 
> of your product. Software publishers do this quite often, 
> as a matter of fact.

I agree that the CFMX installer could be better than it is. I don't know
if
I'd go so far as to say that an install script for any server product
would
ever be a no-brainer, though.

> Instead they focus on installing server products on single 
> homed servers only, and make the configuration of a multi 
> homed server (one that hosts more than one web site) an 
> exercise in hacking.

Yes, I agree that the installer should expose this configuration option.
However, it's hardly an "exercise in hacking". It's an edit of one word
in a
single text file.

> They encourage the admin to contact Tech Support, but 
> require a credit card, even for free install support.  
> This is a cheap shot, is unecessary, and is neglectful 
> of your customers. As a result, MM has gained a reputaton 
> of having a Tech Support department that sucks big time.

Really? They seem about average to me. Who would you point to as an
example
of a good tech support department?

> Those of you who are Macromedia customers should also 
> adopt a higher lever of respect for your fellow journeymen, 
> and can the arrarogant, belittling, and insulting replies 
> to those who are desperately seeking help with obviously
> broken software.

I would agree that we should all treat each other with more respect, on
this
list and elsewhere. I don't agree that the software is "obviously
broken" -
it's complex, and like any other complex product, some people will have
problems and run into trouble through no fault of their own.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444



~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4
Subscription: 
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RE: Installation problem with MX - HELP!!

[Andres]

I have been developing web systems using CF for a long time... and yet, i have A LOT 
more questions than answers, my ration of questions to answers may bt 10/1! 

I find this list invaluable in terms of doing every day development... i have learned 
massive amounts of tricks, shortcuts, and most importantly, BEST PRACTICES from the 
posts that people have introduced here. I thank everyone, even those like myself who 
have more questions than answers!

Try to find a list as active and with members as willing to help each other for ASP, 
PHP, PERL, VB, C, or any other languange. Good Luck!

that's all i have to say about that!


andres
-Original Message-
From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 6:37 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Installation problem with MX - HELP!!


> > > This list is becoming very clique-plagued. Unless you're
> > > one of the inner circle on this list, its difficult to
> > > get a question answered. I'm sorry about that because
> > > it has been a wonderful resource over the last 3 years
> > > as I learned about ColdFusion.
> >
> > I'm sorry that you feel this way. I don't really think 
> > it's an accurate statement. I do think that people tend 
> > to answer some questions before others, and install 
> > questions again are typically a bit more difficult.
> 
> IMHO he made a very accurate statement. Those of you who are 
> among the most frequent posters on the list are infected with 
> an arrogance and rudeness that is beyond measure. Rarely do 
> you have anything to offer beyond belittling the one asking 
> for assistance. I would strongly recommend that if you do 
> not have anything positive to offer a fellow user, then just 
> delete the message and do not reply at all.

Well, for my own sake, as a frequent poster, I may be arrogant, but I don't
think I'm ever rude beyond measure, so I'll assume that you're not directing
your criticism at me. As far as that goes, you're a frequent poster on the
list, and you don't seem especially rude either. I can think of a bunch of
other frequent posters here, who I've never seen be rude or even arrogant. I
would agree with your recommendation, though, about not replying if you
don't have something positive or helpful.

But, in all honesty, I think this list is a lot more friendly than most I've
seen.

> As one with quite bit of experience in building installar 
> packages with both WISE and InstallShield, it is a relative 
> no-brainer to build your install script to detect the 
> operating system, its current configuration, and then 
> offer a number of options for installation and configuraton 
> of your product. Software publishers do this quite often, 
> as a matter of fact.

I agree that the CFMX installer could be better than it is. I don't know if
I'd go so far as to say that an install script for any server product would
ever be a no-brainer, though.

> Instead they focus on installing server products on single 
> homed servers only, and make the configuration of a multi 
> homed server (one that hosts more than one web site) an 
> exercise in hacking.

Yes, I agree that the installer should expose this configuration option.
However, it's hardly an "exercise in hacking". It's an edit of one word in a
single text file.

> They encourage the admin to contact Tech Support, but 
> require a credit card, even for free install support.  
> This is a cheap shot, is unecessary, and is neglectful 
> of your customers. As a result, MM has gained a reputaton 
> of having a Tech Support department that sucks big time.

Really? They seem about average to me. Who would you point to as an example
of a good tech support department?

> Those of you who are Macromedia customers should also 
> adopt a higher lever of respect for your fellow journeymen, 
> and can the arrarogant, belittling, and insulting replies 
> to those who are desperately seeking help with obviously
> broken software.

I would agree that we should all treat each other with more respect, on this
list and elsewhere. I don't agree that the software is "obviously broken" -
it's complex, and like any other complex product, some people will have
problems and run into trouble through no fault of their own.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444


~|
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RE: PDF creation

[Tim Laureska]

Well... I guess... does the web server need any software installed to
have this PDF creation method work? ... I haven't played with this yet 

-Original Message-
From: Todd Rafferty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 7:27 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: PDF creation

Yeah, it's free to begin with... I wonder if the author of CF_HTML2PDF3 
even has permission to redistribute ghtmldoc.exe.  It has to be
installed 
... (what did you mean by purely client based?)

~Todd

At 07:17 PM 3/7/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>Will the free version of htmldoc suffice for this?  Does the web server
>have to have software installed or can this be purely client based?
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Todd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 2:54 PM
>To: CF-Talk
>Subject: Re: PDF creation
>
>There's a catch!  You have to install HTMLDoc 1.x
>
>http://www.easysw.com/htmldoc/
>
>The tag merely  htmldoc.exe
>
>~Todd
>
>At 02:47 PM 3/7/2003 -0400, you wrote:
> >Check this one out!
> >
> >CF_HTML2PDF3 allows you to create PDF files from any dynamic CFM page
> >simply by encasing whatever portion of the page you wish to display
>inside
> >the opening and closing CF_HTML2PDF3 tags.
> >
>
>http://www.macromedia.com/cfusion/exchange/index.cfm?view=sn130#view=sn
>131&viewName=ColdFusion%2520Extension&loc=en_us&extID=1002789&lc_id=404
>
>
>

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RE: PDF creation

[Todd Rafferty]

Yeah, it's free to begin with... I wonder if the author of CF_HTML2PDF3 
even has permission to redistribute ghtmldoc.exe.  It has to be installed 
... (what did you mean by purely client based?)

~Todd

At 07:17 PM 3/7/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>Will the free version of htmldoc suffice for this?  Does the web server
>have to have software installed or can this be purely client based?
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Todd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 2:54 PM
>To: CF-Talk
>Subject: Re: PDF creation
>
>There's a catch!  You have to install HTMLDoc 1.x
>
>http://www.easysw.com/htmldoc/
>
>The tag merely  htmldoc.exe
>
>~Todd
>
>At 02:47 PM 3/7/2003 -0400, you wrote:
> >Check this one out!
> >
> >CF_HTML2PDF3 allows you to create PDF files from any dynamic CFM page
> >simply by encasing whatever portion of the page you wish to display
>inside
> >the opening and closing CF_HTML2PDF3 tags.
> >
> >http://www.macromedia.com/cfusion/exchange/index.cfm?view=sn130#view=sn
>131&viewName=ColdFusion%2520Extension&loc=en_us&extID=1002789&lc_id=404
>
>
>
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Re: Installation problem with MX - HELP!!

[Bryan Stevenson]

While agree with ya on the pissers and moaners (WAY out of control)the
inital poster chastised folks for not helpingwhen I offered help he
didn't respond...he just kept posting that nobody would helpdoesn't
really make me wanna help him ;-)

But yes folksif ya ain't got somewthing nice to say...shut up! ;-)

Bryan Stevenson B.Comm.
VP & Director of E-Commerce Development
Electric Edge Systems Group Inc.
t. 250.920.8830
e. [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-
Macromedia Associate Partner
www.macromedia.com
-
Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group
Founder & Director
www.cfug-vancouverisland.com
- Original Message -
From: "samcfug" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: Installation problem with MX - HELP!!


> |
> | > This list is becoming very clique-plagued. Unless you're
> | > one of the inner circle on this list, its difficult to
> | > get a question answered. I'm sorry about that because
> | > it has been a wonderful resource over the last 3 years
> | > as I learned about ColdFusion.
> |
> | I'm sorry that you feel this way. I don't really think it's an accurate
> | statement. I do think that people tend to answer some questions before
> | others, and install questions again are typically a bit more difficult.
> |
>
>
> IMHO he made a very accurate statement.  Those of you who are among the
most
> frequent posters on the list are infected with an arrogance and rudeness
that is
> beyond measure.  Rarely do you have anything to offer beyond belittling
the one
> asking for assistance.   I would strongly recommend that if you do not
have
> anything positive to offer a fellow user, then just delete the message and
do
> not reply at all.
>
> As one with quite  bit of experience in building installar packages with
both
> WISE and InstallShield, it is a relative no-brainer to build your install
script
> to detect the operating system, its current configuration, and then offer
a
> number of options for installation and configuraton of your product.
Software
> publishers do this quite often, as a matter of fact.
>
> Macromedia on the other hand, does commit "dozens of developers" just to
create
> a beta version of a web site, butr cannot devote one to creating an
intuitive
> installer package, including the option of making a clean uninstall as
well.
> Instead they focus on installing server products on single homed servers
only,
> and make the configuration of a multi homed server (one that hosts more
than one
> web site) an exercise in hacking.  They release extremely badly written
and
> deficient documentation, and then publish hot-fixes to the documentation
or
> separate documentation only after problems begin to show up..  They
encourage
> the admin to contact Tech Support, but require a credit card, even for
free
> install support.  This is a cheap shot, is unecessary, and is neglectful
of your
> customers.  As a result, MM has gained a reputaton of having a Tech
Support
> department that sucks big time.  I suggest that Macromedia adopt a common
sense
> set of businss ethics and enforce them from the top on down., the sooner
the
> better.  One item that should be in bold letters, is treat all customers
with
> respect or be subject to immediagte termination.  They should bear in mind
that
> a system admin who spends days worth of unproductinve time is trying to
> configure your software, is subject to being fired.
>
> Those of you who are Macromedia customers should also adopt a higher lever
of
> respect for your fellow journeymen, and can the arrarogant, belittling,
and
> insulting replies to those who are desperately seeking help with obviously
> broken software.
>
> My .02. for a Friday.
>
> |
>
> 
~|
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RE: PDF creation

[Tim Laureska]

Will the free version of htmldoc suffice for this?  Does the web server
have to have software installed or can this be purely client based?

-Original Message-
From: Todd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 2:54 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: PDF creation

There's a catch!  You have to install HTMLDoc 1.x

http://www.easysw.com/htmldoc/

The tag merely  htmldoc.exe

~Todd

At 02:47 PM 3/7/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>Check this one out!
>
>CF_HTML2PDF3 allows you to create PDF files from any dynamic CFM page 
>simply by encasing whatever portion of the page you wish to display
inside 
>the opening and closing CF_HTML2PDF3 tags.
>
>http://www.macromedia.com/cfusion/exchange/index.cfm?view=sn130#view=sn
131&viewName=ColdFusion%2520Extension&loc=en_us&extID=1002789&lc_id=404


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Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?

[Matt Robertson]

Good grief.  Here is the relevant excerpt from the license agreement.  This wasn't 
there in the past.

My cms uses and includes an ActivEdit license.   The license claims I have granted MM 
the right to use my product's contents for free, and they have expressly made me 
liable for any licensing fees owed for said use (see the bottom paragraph).

I can live with the non-commercial part -- thats why I upload stuff in the first 
place.  However acknowledgement should be granted with regard to the work's 
origination.  Mention of this is absent.

The final paragraph implies that the preceding para's only take effect if an upload 
off of MM's servers is the situation, meaning if you force a download from your own 
site you retain your rights.  However this is vague and could be construed against the 
developer.

*WTF*??

--

(b) You will indemnify and hold Macromedia harmless from any claim related to the 
Submission including any claim by a third party that the Submission infringes any 
copyright, patent, trademark, trade secret, rights of privacy or publicity or any 
other intellectual property right. Your obligation to indemnify Macromedia excludes 
any claims based on Macromedia-authored software.

(c) Non-commercial Submission Only: With respect to the Non-commercial Submission 
only, You hereby grant Macromedia a perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free and worldwide 
license to use, test, copy, modify, create derivative works of, publicly display, 
publicly perform, distribute, license, sublicense, offer to sell, sell, rent, lease or 
lend the Submission.

(d) Commercial Submission Only: With respect to the Commercial Submission only, You 
hereby grant Macromedia a perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free and worldwide license 
to use, test, copy, modify, create derivative works of, publicly display, publicly 
perform or demonstrate the Submission, and/or place a link to a website in connection 
with such Submission.

IF YOU DO NOT OWN OR HAVE RIGHTS TO EVERY ELEMENT OF YOUR SUBMISSIONS (EXCLUDING ANY 
MACROMEDIA-AUTHORED SOFTWARE), DO NOT UPLOAD THE SUBMISSIONS TO MACROMEDIA. YOU WILL 
BE FINANCIALLY LIABLE TO ANY THIRD PARTY THAT OWNS ANY ELEMENT OF YOUR EXTENSIONS! 

 
 
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RE: DHTML/Javascript question

[Barney Boisvert]

If you're using an all-IE environment, it's pretty simple, you just use
something like this:

document.all.navdiv.style.top = document.body.scrollTop + "px";

that'll put the  named 'navdiv' at the top of the viewable screen.
Just make that fire when the user scrolls, and you'll be set.

If you're in a hybrid environment, then I'm not sure what to do.  Probably
the same type of thing, just using LAYER tags instead, but it's been a long
time since I've played with that stuff.

HTH,
barneyb

> -Original Message-
> From: Jim McAtee [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 3:50 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: OT: DHTML/Javascript question
>
>
> I've got an intranet site that uses a simple frame construct for
> navigation.  It
> has a 60 pixel tall navigation frame across the top of the screen
> that uses
> icons and text links, while the working application pages are
> displayed below.
> I'd like to convert this to using DHTML drop-down menus within
> this navigation
> frame, but obviously (or maybe not so obviously) the drop downs
> can't drop over
> the lower frame.  So, instead of using frames, the next move is
> to just place a
> strip of drop-down menus across the top of every page.  This is
> easily done,
> since all pages use standard header/footer files via cfinclude.
>
> The one thing missing is that the nav frame approach was very
> handy, in that it
> was always visible.  Is it possible to position a table (with the
> navigation
> bar) across the top of a page, and keep it there even when the
> rest of the page
> is scrolled?
>
> Thanks,
> Jim
>
> 
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OT: DHTML/Javascript question

[Jim McAtee]

I've got an intranet site that uses a simple frame construct for navigation.  It
has a 60 pixel tall navigation frame across the top of the screen that uses
icons and text links, while the working application pages are displayed below.
I'd like to convert this to using DHTML drop-down menus within this navigation
frame, but obviously (or maybe not so obviously) the drop downs can't drop over
the lower frame.  So, instead of using frames, the next move is to just place a
strip of drop-down menus across the top of every page.  This is easily done,
since all pages use standard header/footer files via cfinclude.

The one thing missing is that the nav frame approach was very handy, in that it
was always visible.  Is it possible to position a table (with the navigation
bar) across the top of a page, and keep it there even when the rest of the page
is scrolled?

Thanks,
Jim

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Re: Installation problem with MX - HELP!!

[Mike Chambers]

Todd,

This is my personal opinion, but:

You, and everyone else on this does not owe Doug (or anyone else for that
matter) anything. People on this list are taking time out of their day to
help other developers. I personally appreciate it. I know that I learned
most of what I know about web development by getting help from the
community.

So, to everyone on the list who is contributing and helping others out,
thanks...

mike chambers

[EMAIL PROTECTED]


- Original Message -
From: "Todd Rafferty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 6:49 PM
Subject: RE: Installation problem with MX - HELP!!


> At 06:37 PM 3/7/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> > > IMHO he made a very accurate statement. Those of you who are
> > > among the most frequent posters on the list are infected with
> > > an arrogance and rudeness that is beyond measure. Rarely do
> > > you have anything to offer beyond belittling the one asking
> > > for assistance. I would strongly recommend that if you do
> > > not have anything positive to offer a fellow user, then just
> > > delete the message and do not reply at all.
> >
> >Well, for my own sake, as a frequent poster, I may be arrogant, but I
don't
> >think I'm ever rude beyond measure, so I'll assume that you're not
directing
> >your criticism at me.
>
> I think he was directing that at me and I apologize.  I attempted to help
> him out, but he went from asking a question to "goddamns" and panicked
> emails in no time short.  Hard to help out someone that won't calm down
and
> back up and look for steps and research and .. yadda yadda.  I certainly
> had nothing to do with the "goddamn" Macromedia documentation.  Sure, the
> manual said you can do it, but... if the manual said you could also jump
> off a bridge, would you?  There's always bound to be some problems and ..
> CFMX is certainly disorienting (from an upgrade standpoint) and cumbersome
> to get used, but once you figure out how to get things going from there,
> it's all good.  It certainly wasn't my decision to program the wsconfig
the
> way it is and ... I would hate to see what his opinion of setting up a
java
> environment/server is like because some of them are even worst than cfmx.
>
> But, anyway... sorry if I was rude, I guess I didn't calm him down
> correctly and the fury (and frequency) of his emails wasn't making matters
> better.
>
> ~Todd
>
>
> --
> Todd Rafferty ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - http://www.web-rat.com/
> Team Macromedia Volunteer for ColdFusion
> http://www.macromedia.com/support/forums/team_macromedia/
> http://www.devmx.com/
>
> --
>
> 
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Re: The New Macromedia Website(ODBC)

[Mike Chambers]

We have a completely new search system in place now, so that may address
some of your concerns.

mike chambers

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

- Original Message -
From: "Jim Davis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> I've often thought that Allaire's and now MM's knowledge base was very
> weak.  The articles are very difficult to find due to the poor searching
> and often not specific enough to the many product versions in use.

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Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?

[Matt Robertson]

Jochem wrote:
>I think you are reading this correctly. However, there is a 
>distinction between a license to create derivative works and a 
>license to redistribute those derivative works.

In reading this it seems that the term "copy" could be used to provide those 
distribution rights, that would have to be determined in a court case.

We need this clarified by Macromedia, pretty much immediately.  Is this correct as 
reported?  If so it could be a serious problem.

---
 Matt Robertson, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 MSB Designs, Inc. http://mysecretbase.com
---


-- Original Message --
From: Jochem van Dieten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 23:49:56 +0100

>Tom Sammons wrote:
>> 
>> So, I went a step further to see what the new submission areas looked 
>> like, and there was the following in the submission agreement:
>> 
>> (d) Commercial Submission Only: With respect to the Commercial 
>> Submission only, You hereby grant Macromedia a perpetual, irrevocable, 
>> royalty-free and worldwide license to use, test, copy, modify, create 
>> derivative works of, publicly display, publicly perform or demonstrate 
>> the Submission, and/or place a link to a website in connection with such 
>> Submission.
>
>> Am I reading it wrong, or doesn't this say that I would be giving them 
>> licensed ownership ("create derivative works of") whatever product or 
>> tag I might submit?
>
>I think you are reading this correctly. However, there is a distinction 
>between a license to create derivative works and a license to 
>redistribute those derivative works.
>
>Jochem
>
>
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Re: RE: Installation problem with MX - HELP!!

[ksuh]

I wonder what would have happened if he was trying to configure Tomcat...  Now that's 
a bitch.

- Original Message -
From: Todd Rafferty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Friday, March 7, 2003 4:49 pm
Subject: RE: Installation problem with MX - HELP!!

> At 06:37 PM 3/7/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> > > IMHO he made a very accurate statement. Those of you who are
> > > among the most frequent posters on the list are infected with
> > > an arrogance and rudeness that is beyond measure. Rarely do
> > > you have anything to offer beyond belittling the one asking
> > > for assistance. I would strongly recommend that if you do
> > > not have anything positive to offer a fellow user, then just
> > > delete the message and do not reply at all.
> >
> >Well, for my own sake, as a frequent poster, I may be arrogant, 
> but I don't
> >think I'm ever rude beyond measure, so I'll assume that you're 
> not directing
> >your criticism at me.
> 
> I think he was directing that at me and I apologize.  I attempted 
> to help 
> him out, but he went from asking a question to "goddamns" and 
> panicked 
> emails in no time short.  Hard to help out someone that won't calm 
> down and 
> back up and look for steps and research and .. yadda yadda.  I 
> certainly 
> had nothing to do with the "goddamn" Macromedia documentation.  
> Sure, the 
> manual said you can do it, but... if the manual said you could 
> also jump 
> off a bridge, would you?  There's always bound to be some problems 
> and .. 
> CFMX is certainly disorienting (from an upgrade standpoint) and 
> cumbersome 
> to get used, but once you figure out how to get things going from 
> there, 
> it's all good.  It certainly wasn't my decision to program the 
> wsconfig the 
> way it is and ... I would hate to see what his opinion of setting 
> up a java 
> environment/server is like because some of them are even worst 
> than cfmx.
> 
> But, anyway... sorry if I was rude, I guess I didn't calm him down 
> correctly and the fury (and frequency) of his emails wasn't making 
> matters 
> better.
> 
> ~Todd
> 
> 
> --
> Todd Rafferty ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - http://www.web-rat.com/
> Team Macromedia Volunteer for ColdFusion
> http://www.macromedia.com/support/forums/team_macromedia/
> http://www.devmx.com/
> 
> --
> 
> 
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Public Bug Base? was (RE: The New Macromedia Website(ODBC))

[Todd Rafferty]

>Just out of curiousity what does MM use internally for defect tracking?
>
>I've often thought that Allaire's and now MM's knowledge base was very
>weak.  The articles are very difficult to find due to the poor searching
>and often not specific enough to the many product versions in use.
>
>A really good knowledge base would eliminate the need (I think) for a
>specific bug application.  As it is we have a (relatively) poor
>knowledge base and the forums...
>
>On the other hand, if you can afford it, live technical support is
>generally superb.   But that can't be the only option.
>
>Jim Davis

Jim, they're already thinking about it:
http://www.markme.com/mesh/archives/000817.cfm

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Re: Day 3 Opera works! Re: The New Macromedia Website

[Sean A Corfield]

On Friday, Mar 7, 2003, at 12:54 US/Pacific, Dave Watts wrote:
> I hardly know where to begin. There are just so many reasons why it's 
> bad
> for application interfaces. Just imagine if, for everything you did on 
> your
> computer, you had to do it through an HTML interface. Just compare it 
> to the
> desktop applications you use everyday.

Ask anyone who has used both MS Exchange "webmail" and MS Outlook... 
I've seen a few Flash mail clients that allow the convenience and 
interactivity of Outlook in a portable, web environment. That's a good 
example of "HTML bad, Flash good" :)

Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

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RE: Installation problem with MX - HELP!!

[Todd Rafferty]

At 06:37 PM 3/7/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> > IMHO he made a very accurate statement. Those of you who are
> > among the most frequent posters on the list are infected with
> > an arrogance and rudeness that is beyond measure. Rarely do
> > you have anything to offer beyond belittling the one asking
> > for assistance. I would strongly recommend that if you do
> > not have anything positive to offer a fellow user, then just
> > delete the message and do not reply at all.
>
>Well, for my own sake, as a frequent poster, I may be arrogant, but I don't
>think I'm ever rude beyond measure, so I'll assume that you're not directing
>your criticism at me.

I think he was directing that at me and I apologize.  I attempted to help 
him out, but he went from asking a question to "goddamns" and panicked 
emails in no time short.  Hard to help out someone that won't calm down and 
back up and look for steps and research and .. yadda yadda.  I certainly 
had nothing to do with the "goddamn" Macromedia documentation.  Sure, the 
manual said you can do it, but... if the manual said you could also jump 
off a bridge, would you?  There's always bound to be some problems and .. 
CFMX is certainly disorienting (from an upgrade standpoint) and cumbersome 
to get used, but once you figure out how to get things going from there, 
it's all good.  It certainly wasn't my decision to program the wsconfig the 
way it is and ... I would hate to see what his opinion of setting up a java 
environment/server is like because some of them are even worst than cfmx.

But, anyway... sorry if I was rude, I guess I didn't calm him down 
correctly and the fury (and frequency) of his emails wasn't making matters 
better.

~Todd


--
Todd Rafferty ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - http://www.web-rat.com/
Team Macromedia Volunteer for ColdFusion
http://www.macromedia.com/support/forums/team_macromedia/
http://www.devmx.com/

--

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Re: Day 3 Opera works! Re: The New Macromedia Website

[Sean A Corfield]

On Friday, Mar 7, 2003, at 07:14 US/Pacific, Willy Ray wrote:
> Except for the Download page that tells Opera users to "Please Use a
> Supported Browser".  Baby steps, I guess.  Hopefully they'll get that
> working at some point soon.

Opera does not currently support Flash Remoting properly which is why 
you cannot view the Rich Internet Applications on the site. We are 
working with the Opera team to resolve this.

> The home page is working great.  So, as a developer who's doing some
> remoting, some RIAs (regardless of how *that* thread pans out), I'm
> intensly curious:  What *exactly* was the problem, and will it effect
> me, as I build RIAs?

The home page problem was two-fold:
1) we had & in the flashVars query string for the Flash movie but 
Opera did not convert it to & before passing the string into the movie 
so we changed it to just plain & (not XHTML compliant) so Opera would 
handle it correctly.
2) we called a JavaScript function from Flash that Opera didn't seem to 
like (works fine in other browsers) so we removed that call for the 
time being

As for RIAs, see the comment above. This also applies to Safari - it 
does not yet support Flash Remoting properly - and we're working with 
the Safari team to resolve this.

Sean A Corfield -- Director, Architecture
Web Technology Group -- Macromedia, Inc.
tel: (415) 252-2287 -- cell: (415) 717-8473
aim/iChat: seancorfield -- http://www.macromedia.com
An Architect's View -- http://www.macromedia.com/go/arch_blog

Announcing Macromedia DevNet Subscriptions
Maximize your power with our new premium software subscription
Find out more: http://www.macromedia.com/go/devnetsubs

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RE: Sessions and CFMX still

[Dave Watts]

> > urltoken, except it places the jsessionid in the URL twice
>
> I just noticed this.. This is not supposed to happen.. 
> 
> In theory/manuals .. it should be like 
> "index.cfm?jsessionid=80301958431047056318625&cfid=20241&cftok
> en=52485459"
> 
> It does something like ... 
> index.cfm;JSESSIONID=80301958431047056318625?CFID=20241&CFTOKE
> N=52485459&jsessionid=80301958431047056318625
> and the page does NOT display.. ";"

Actually, according to the J2EE specification, the JSESSIONID should be
added after the file name with a semicolon. I'm not really sure why that is,
but there it is, on page 50 of the Servlet 2.3 specification:

http://www.jcp.org/aboutJava/communityprocess/final/jsr053/

That link was pointed out to me by Aaron Johnson.

Now, there is a known bug in CFLOCATION; if ADDTOKEN="NO", it still appends
the JSESSIONID to the file name with a semicolon. Whether or not the page
will run depends on how your web server is configured; if you're using IIS,
I believe you'd need to use an ISAPI filter instead of an ISAPI extension to
connect to CFMX. You can choose to use either a filter or an extension when
you run wsconfig.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444

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RE: The New Macromedia Website(ODBC)

[Jim Davis]

> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 5:39 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: The New Macromedia Website(ODBC)
> 
> 
> > I think one of the root causes of this kind of frustration
> > is that it's very difficult to know what the status of a 
> > fix is. The bug list isn't public, and if it is available 
> > to anyone outside of macromedia they don't mention it anywhere, 
> > or are limited by some kind of nda.
> > 
> > We ran into a bug yesterday (gethttpRequestData) that almost
> > cost us a client, now for two hours we banged away at the 
> > problem until we figured out it had to be a bug, I searched 
> > cf-talk, and was able to confirm it was a known bug, and get 
> > working on a fix. Some kind of bug database would probably 
> > go a long way towards alleviating some frustration. Java, 
> > PHP, and MS all have public bug databases...why can't CF? 
> > All we have are the very few technotes which address maybe
> > 1% of outstanding bugs.
> 
> I wholeheartedly agree. This is something that various MM 
> people have said was in the works, but sooner would 
> definitely be better than later.

(I'm not asking you specifically, Dave, just in general)

There used to be a semi-public bug system as part of the beta site
(beta.allaire.com). It worked tolerably well, what ever happened to
that?

Just out of curiousity what does MM use internally for defect tracking?

I've often thought that Allaire's and now MM's knowledge base was very
weak.  The articles are very difficult to find due to the poor searching
and often not specific enough to the many product versions in use.

A really good knowledge base would eliminate the need (I think) for a
specific bug application.  As it is we have a (relatively) poor
knowledge base and the forums...

On the other hand, if you can afford it, live technical support is
generally superb.   But that can't be the only option.

Jim Davis


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RE: Installation problem with MX - HELP!!

[Dave Watts]

> > > This list is becoming very clique-plagued. Unless you're
> > > one of the inner circle on this list, its difficult to
> > > get a question answered. I'm sorry about that because
> > > it has been a wonderful resource over the last 3 years
> > > as I learned about ColdFusion.
> >
> > I'm sorry that you feel this way. I don't really think 
> > it's an accurate statement. I do think that people tend 
> > to answer some questions before others, and install 
> > questions again are typically a bit more difficult.
> 
> IMHO he made a very accurate statement. Those of you who are 
> among the most frequent posters on the list are infected with 
> an arrogance and rudeness that is beyond measure. Rarely do 
> you have anything to offer beyond belittling the one asking 
> for assistance. I would strongly recommend that if you do 
> not have anything positive to offer a fellow user, then just 
> delete the message and do not reply at all.

Well, for my own sake, as a frequent poster, I may be arrogant, but I don't
think I'm ever rude beyond measure, so I'll assume that you're not directing
your criticism at me. As far as that goes, you're a frequent poster on the
list, and you don't seem especially rude either. I can think of a bunch of
other frequent posters here, who I've never seen be rude or even arrogant. I
would agree with your recommendation, though, about not replying if you
don't have something positive or helpful.

But, in all honesty, I think this list is a lot more friendly than most I've
seen.

> As one with quite bit of experience in building installar 
> packages with both WISE and InstallShield, it is a relative 
> no-brainer to build your install script to detect the 
> operating system, its current configuration, and then 
> offer a number of options for installation and configuraton 
> of your product. Software publishers do this quite often, 
> as a matter of fact.

I agree that the CFMX installer could be better than it is. I don't know if
I'd go so far as to say that an install script for any server product would
ever be a no-brainer, though.

> Instead they focus on installing server products on single 
> homed servers only, and make the configuration of a multi 
> homed server (one that hosts more than one web site) an 
> exercise in hacking.

Yes, I agree that the installer should expose this configuration option.
However, it's hardly an "exercise in hacking". It's an edit of one word in a
single text file.

> They encourage the admin to contact Tech Support, but 
> require a credit card, even for free install support.  
> This is a cheap shot, is unecessary, and is neglectful 
> of your customers. As a result, MM has gained a reputaton 
> of having a Tech Support department that sucks big time.

Really? They seem about average to me. Who would you point to as an example
of a good tech support department?

> Those of you who are Macromedia customers should also 
> adopt a higher lever of respect for your fellow journeymen, 
> and can the arrarogant, belittling, and insulting replies 
> to those who are desperately seeking help with obviously
> broken software.

I would agree that we should all treat each other with more respect, on this
list and elsewhere. I don't agree that the software is "obviously broken" -
it's complex, and like any other complex product, some people will have
problems and run into trouble through no fault of their own.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444

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CF Conference news

[Michael Smith]

You are invited to MXNorth, MX on the Rocks, CF_Europe and CFUN-03. Learn 
ColdFusion, Flash and Java to help you program great websites!

- Michael Smith, TeraTech, Inc http://www.teratech.com/

PS I am speaking at all of these conferences on Project Management,
Fusebox, Loops and Security, so please come say Hi if you see me
there!

* MXNORTH  Toronto, Canada 3/14 - 3/16 http://www.mxnorth.com/
* MX On the Rocks,  Denver CO 3/20 - 3/21 http://www.mxontherocks.com/
* CF_Europe, London, UK 5/29 - 5/30 http://www.cf-europe.org/
* CFUN-03 Washington DC 6/21 - 6/22 http://www.cfconf.com/cfun-03/

More details below:

---
MXNorth
***
http://www.mxnorth.com/
March 14th - 16th, 2003
Toronto, Canada

Speaker include Jeremy Allaire, Kevin Towes, Charlie Arehart, Joe Marini, 
Michael Smith, Byron Bignell, Hal Helms, Cameron Childress, John Quarto-
vonTivadar, Shlomy Gantz, Ed Apostol, Angela Buraglia, Neil Giarrantana, Vince 
Bonfanti, Kim Cavanaugh, Brian Panulla, Massimo Foti, Ed van Beilen, Joel 
Martinez, Dan Short, Bill Rogers, Dave Watts, Peter Ladka, John Cowie, Murray 
Summers, Brad Halstead, Mike Nimer, Matthew David, Randy Drisgill, Wells Burke, 
Tom Green, Chris Flickand
Jordan Chilcott

This is the perfect opportunity to learn, network and talk with 
professional developers from this community and from
around the globe about your products, the latest tricks, techniques 
and innovations in ColdFusion and Internet development.

In case you haven't heard, we have an exciting announcement! CFNorth has
merged with TODCON (The Other Dreamweaver Conference) to become MX North,
the ultimate Toronto Web Development Conference. 

An exciting program has been planned; five tracks and over 65 sessions 
covering the entire MX product line, including all of the ColdFusion you 
loved last time plus Dreamweaver, Flash, Fireworks, and Communication Server.

---
MX On The Rocks
***
http://www.mxontherocks.com/
March 20 & 21, 2003
Sponsored and organized by GT Alliance

MX on the Rocks is a 2 day event that brings together the best ColdFusion, 
Flash, and Design speakers from around the nation to Denver, Colorado. This 
event focus is on content not frills and we are really putting together a 
stellar line up including often overlooked topics such as sound, user interface 
testing and advanced SQL.

Recent speaker additions include:

Keynote Speaker: John Hansen, the Colorado Secretary of Technology.
Vince Bonfanti:   CEO of New Atlanta (www.newatlanta.com)
Craig Swann: Creator of Loop Labs (www.looplabs.com)
Confirmed speakers include:

Cutting Edge Design:
Matt Owens -- one9ine
Mike Young -- We Work For Them
Mike Cina  -- We Work For Them
Marco DiCarlo  Velocity Studios
Eric Vardon  Velocity Studios

Programming Gurus:
Rob Brooks-Bilson -- Author of Programming ColdFusion
Ben Elmore -- RemoteSite
Raymond Camden
Dan Switzer -- PengoWorks
Charlie Arehart -- SystemManage
Shlomy Gantz -- BlueBrick
Michael Smith --TeraTech

History:

Our goal is to inspire and support the design and development communities. The 
conference is designed to be an interactive experience for attendees where 
everyone who is there can participate in learning, discussions and knowledge 
exchange.Last year we had a group of 12 middle school children participate 
in the conference and this group has grown from 15 to 70 students.  Last year's 
conference, held under the name of Colorado Macromedia Technology Conference, 
was a great success with over 300 people and 30 speakers.  We have taken all of 
the participant suggestions from last year, added a few improvements of our own 
for an even better event this year.   
 
-
CF_Europe
*
http://www.cf-europe.org/
May 29th - 30th, 2003
London, UK 

CF Europe is the yearly European Macromedia Developer Conference organized and 
run by the CFUGs and MMUGs of Europe. CF Europe 2003 (our 2nd year) is being 
held in London, UK on Thursday 29th May to Friday 30th May 2003 at the Olympia 
Conference Centre.

Registration for CF_Europe 2003 is now open! There is an early registration 
discount until 14 March 2003. You can save over 25% on the standard price of 
B#250 (B#200 concessions). There are discounts for Macromedia Partners, Macromedia 
User Group Managers, Groups and Students!

The conference is an ideal way to concentrate all the knowledge from the US and 
Europe.

The event features numerous workshops on ColdFusion Development, Server 
Management, User Interfaces, and Web Development Solutions. The conference 
program is designed to enable emerging and seasoned developers to extend their 
skill sets and expand their knowledgebase.

In addition to in-depth technical sessions, the CF Europe Developer Conference 
also includes a sponsor exhibit area which is open throughout both days.

You will have to opportunity to meet the European Macromedia team, speakers from 
the US and Europe and the developers who use ColdFusion applications.

Ben Forta will be th

...and here's another RIA rant.

[dwayne]

Macromedia I hope you are paying attention. 

As you can tell, the COLDFUSION guys have step into the party and we are a little 
uncomfortable with the music. 

I just look at the archives and the number of threads and thread contributions over 
the last week seems to be centered around RIA's, Flashing Remoting, and standard 
compatiblity issues. 

You got us excited about RIA, and we are ready to give it some muscle, but it is 
obvious that there are a few things we need you to help us straighten out.

1). Design & Analysis Methodology
Object Oriented may not be the solution.

2). A Development Methodology
We need a development framework, naming conventions, and RIA best practices that we 
can trust.  We need a patterned approach to organizing .cfc's, .cfm's, .swf's, .fla's, 
.as, .css, .xml and more. Who owns what, and who's responsible for what operations.  
That's a lot of files and alot of variable scopes to maintain.

3). A relevant development enviornment.
How about adding another page to my ColdFusion Studio 5 (Homesite+) that not only 
provides a live browse of HTML but one that let's me browse as Flash or PDA or Phone 
or whatever.  Dreamweaver is not really positioned to hold that space.  It's not the 
"brand" of the developers or those who say they are. 




 


Prof. Dwayne Cole, MS in MIS, MBA
Florida A&M University
Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer
850-591-0212
 

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OpenForums coders

[Owens, Howard]

Anybody here familiar with OpenForums, the open source discussion forums
program ... I've got some questions and not getting any help from the
so-called support forum for it (it's down) and not getting answers to my
e-mail questions.

H.


~~
Howard Owens
Internet Operations Coordinator
InsideVC.com/Ventura County Star
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
AIM: GoCatGo1956
~~

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RE: The New Macromedia Website(ODBC)

[Dave Watts]

> > It's another thing to say that the product shouldn't have 
> > been released because of it.
> 
> It might be your nature to release "BUG"/GY applications...
> I Dont operate that way.

So, you're saying that if there's ANY bug at all in CFMX, it shouldn't have
been released? I'd still be waiting for my bug-free copy of CF 2 then! And
how about my Windows NT 3.51 fixes - I'm still waiting! It's simply not
practical to expect any software package of any complexity to have no bugs
at all.

> > Most bugs aren't trivial to the people who run into them
>
> Apparently its Trivial to most developers here...If something 
> doesnt work.. My solution is to get it fixed... Yours might 
> be to improve Product Manuals and perhaps buy the User Big 
> Eye Glasses... not a bad Strategy!.

My solution is to find the best way to solve a problem. If JDBC-ODBC doesn't
work well in CFMX, but "pure" JDBC does, my solution may well be to
recommend "pure" JDBC. If there's some reason that's not acceptable, then
that's a different matter. But I try to keep my expectations realistic.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444

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Re: The New Macromedia Website(ODBC)

[Mike Chambers]

At the time it was stated that it is some that we were considering. That has
not changed at this point.

mike chambers

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

- Original Message -
From: "Joe Eugene" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: The New Macromedia Website(ODBC)


> >>Some kind of bug database would probably go a long way towards
>alleviating some frustration. Java, PHP, and MS all have public >bug
databases...why
>
> This was brought up about 3-4 months ago.. during the time of the LAST
Community manager that left MM...
> Nothing came out of if.. think he said.. he would put into request or
something like that..
>
> Yes.. this would be nice.
>

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Re: The New Macromedia Website(ODBC)

[Jochem van Dieten]

Kevin Graeme wrote:
>>The problem that I see is that a lot of people who do nothing but complain
>>about a *supposed* CFMX bug waste a lot of time because they
>>refuse to call tech support.
> 
> And how much does it cost to call Tech Support? I need to get a bug in
> FlashMX addressed, but from their site it looks like it's now $200/incident
> call.
> 
> And even if they still do the "if it's a real bug then we'll refund you" I
> still can't call because my purchasing department doesn't give out the CC.

You indeed have a problem.

Your best bet would be lists like this one (but then a little bit more 
Flash centered). If somebody posts a scenario to reproduce a bug with 
not to much effort to this list he will probably get a confirmation 
pretty soon. Then just wait until somebody who has the right connections 
with Macromedia confirms the problem.

Jochem

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Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?

[Jochem van Dieten]

Tom Sammons wrote:
> 
> So, I went a step further to see what the new submission areas looked 
> like, and there was the following in the submission agreement:
> 
> (d) Commercial Submission Only: With respect to the Commercial 
> Submission only, You hereby grant Macromedia a perpetual, irrevocable, 
> royalty-free and worldwide license to use, test, copy, modify, create 
> derivative works of, publicly display, publicly perform or demonstrate 
> the Submission, and/or place a link to a website in connection with such 
> Submission.

> Am I reading it wrong, or doesn't this say that I would be giving them 
> licensed ownership ("create derivative works of") whatever product or 
> tag I might submit?

I think you are reading this correctly. However, there is a distinction 
between a license to create derivative works and a license to 
redistribute those derivative works.

Jochem

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Re: window.close question?

[Critz]

oi James!!

you should be able on the parent window to do

window.opener = null;
[code for open child window]
self.close()

/me thinks... it's been a while since i've mucked with it.





Friday, March 7, 2003, 1:30:41 PM, you wrote:

JB> Hello All:

JB> JavaScript Question

JB> I need to have JavaScript code work for Netscape 4.7 to open a child 
JB> window and close the parent and bypass the confirm message. Can someone 
JB> please send me an example?

JB> This code works in IE and Netscape 6-7 but not Netscape 4.7

JB> 


JB> 
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Re: The New Macromedia Website(ODBC)

[Joe Eugene]

>>Some kind of bug database would probably go a long way towards >alleviating some 
>>frustration. Java, PHP, and MS all have public >bug databases...why

This was brought up about 3-4 months ago.. during the time of the LAST Community 
manager that left MM...
Nothing came out of if.. think he said.. he would put into request or something like 
that..

Yes.. this would be nice.

Joe

---Original Message---
From: jon hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 03/07/03 05:02 PM
To: CF-Talk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The New Macromedia Website(ODBC)

> 
> Friday, March 7, 2003, 4:38:38 PM, you wrote:
>> Am just bringing up issues here...FOR the General GOOD 
>> OF CFMX!.

DW> It's one thing to say, hey, there's a problem and it should be fixed
if
DW> possible. It's another thing to say that the product shouldn't have
been
DW> released because of it.

>> IF the Community/MM thinks a CFMX BUG is trivial, i can play 
>> along with that.

DW> Most bugs aren't trivial to the people who run into them, I suppose.
Nobody
DW> is asking you to "play along" with anything. But that doesn't mean
your
DW> goals will be well served by your actions.

I think one of the root causes of this kind of frustration is that
it's very difficult to know what the status of a fix is. The bug list
isn't public, and if it is available to anyone outside of macromedia
they don't mention it anywhere, or are limited by some kind of nda.

We ran into a bug yesterday (gethttpRequestData) that almost cost us a
client, now for two hours we banged away at the problem until we
figured out it had to be a bug, I searched cf-talk, and was able to
confirm it was a known bug, and get working on a fix. Some kind of bug
database would probably go a long way towards alleviating some
frustration. Java, PHP, and MS all have public bug databases...why
can't CF? All we have are the very few technotes which address maybe
1% of outstanding bugs.

-- 
 jon
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?

[Tom Sammons]

Jeez, I wasn't going to post anything regarding all the MM site changes 
because there was so much traffic here about it, but I logged into the 
CF DevEx and found that a few of my submissions were missing.

So, I went a step further to see what the new submission areas looked 
like, and there was the following in the submission agreement:

(d) Commercial Submission Only: With respect to the Commercial 
Submission only, You hereby grant Macromedia a perpetual, irrevocable, 
royalty-free and worldwide license to use, test, copy, modify, create 
derivative works of, publicly display, publicly perform or demonstrate 
the Submission, and/or place a link to a website in connection with such 
Submission.

Non-commercial Submission was very similar, if not the same (my eyes 
bugged out, I can't remember now 8-).

I don't remember this before, but this sounds strikingly like the stuff 
that MS pulled when they were pushing a centralized storage 
product/service.

Am I reading it wrong, or doesn't this say that I would be giving them 
licensed ownership ("create derivative works of") whatever product or 
tag I might submit?

Please, please correct me and tell me I am reading it wrong.

Tom

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RE: Payment Gateway

[Stacy Young]

Hey thanks Michael! 

We're competitively priced and I'd race our processing engine speed
against anyone, any day. ;-)

Cheers!

P.S. If anyone's tried to contact me in past few days, please be advised
my email account is on the fritz so I apologize for any delays!

Stace

-Original Message-
From: Michael Ross [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 4:16 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Payment Gateway

www.firepay.com 

Very nice

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/06/03 03:55PM >>>
Anybody have recommendations regarding a payment gateway, that easily
integrates with Coldfusion? Preferably (if possible) to have reoccurring
billing.

I've been looking at Payflow Pro from Verisign, 2checkout, and some
others.

Tips? Tricks? Pre-written code ;) 

Is Verisign worth the $$$?

thanks

Greg Hamm
Partner
Coreillia Development
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
http://www.coreillia.com 


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RE: The New Macromedia Website(ODBC)

[Dave Watts]

> I think one of the root causes of this kind of frustration 
> is that it's very difficult to know what the status of a 
> fix is. The bug list isn't public, and if it is available 
> to anyone outside of macromedia they don't mention it anywhere, 
> or are limited by some kind of nda.
> 
> We ran into a bug yesterday (gethttpRequestData) that almost 
> cost us a client, now for two hours we banged away at the 
> problem until we figured out it had to be a bug, I searched 
> cf-talk, and was able to confirm it was a known bug, and get 
> working on a fix. Some kind of bug database would probably 
> go a long way towards alleviating some frustration. Java, 
> PHP, and MS all have public bug databases...why can't CF? 
> All we have are the very few technotes which address maybe
> 1% of outstanding bugs.

I wholeheartedly agree. This is something that various MM people have said
was in the works, but sooner would definitely be better than later.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444

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RE: Verity with Includes Problem

[Dave Watts]

> As I understand it: pre-MX Verity is not a spider, and 
> only indexes FILES in the local file system. No CF parsing.

Spidering was introduced in the Verity version bundled with CF 5, actually.
But even without it, you can use Verity to index database content as well as
filesystem content.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444

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RE: The New Macromedia Website(ODBC)

[Joe Eugene]

>It's another thing to say that the product shouldn't have been >released because of 
>it.

It might be your nature to release "BUG"/GY applications...
I Dont operate that way.

>Most bugs aren't trivial to the people who run into them
Apparently its Trivial to most developers here...If something doesnt work.. My 
solution is to get it fixed... Yours might be to improve Product Manuals and perhaps 
buy the User Big Eye Glasses... not a bad Strategy!.

>Nobody is asking you to "play along" with anything.
I dont care... if BUGS do/dont get fixed in CFMX...perhaps others might.. who entirely 
depend on CF OR CF Tags.

IF CFMX problems dont get fixed.. developers will eventually start looking at 
alternatives... Just Simple Fact.

Joe Eugene

---Original Message---
From: Dave Watts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 03/07/03 04:38 PM
To: CF-Talk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: The New Macromedia Website(ODBC)

> 
> > Am just bringing up issues here...FOR the General GOOD 
> OF CFMX!.

It's one thing to say, hey, there's a problem and it should be fixed if possible. It's 
another thing to say that the product shouldn't have been released because of it.

> IF the Community/MM thinks a CFMX BUG is trivial, i can play 
> along with that.

Most bugs aren't trivial to the people who run into them, I suppose. Nobody is asking 
you to "play along" with anything. But that doesn't mean your goals will be well 
served by your actions.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/";>http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444


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Re: Installation problem with MX - HELP!!

[samcfug]

|
| > This list is becoming very clique-plagued. Unless you're
| > one of the inner circle on this list, its difficult to
| > get a question answered. I'm sorry about that because
| > it has been a wonderful resource over the last 3 years
| > as I learned about ColdFusion.
|
| I'm sorry that you feel this way. I don't really think it's an accurate
| statement. I do think that people tend to answer some questions before
| others, and install questions again are typically a bit more difficult.
|


IMHO he made a very accurate statement.  Those of you who are among the most
frequent posters on the list are infected with an arrogance and rudeness that is
beyond measure.  Rarely do you have anything to offer beyond belittling the one
asking for assistance.   I would strongly recommend that if you do not have
anything positive to offer a fellow user, then just delete the message and do
not reply at all.

As one with quite  bit of experience in building installar packages with both
WISE and InstallShield, it is a relative no-brainer to build your install script
to detect the operating system, its current configuration, and then offer a
number of options for installation and configuraton of your product.  Software
publishers do this quite often, as a matter of fact.

Macromedia on the other hand, does commit "dozens of developers" just to create
a beta version of a web site, butr cannot devote one to creating an intuitive
installer package, including the option of making a clean uninstall as well.
Instead they focus on installing server products on single homed servers only,
and make the configuration of a multi homed server (one that hosts more than one
web site) an exercise in hacking.  They release extremely badly written and
deficient documentation, and then publish hot-fixes to the documentation or
separate documentation only after problems begin to show up..  They encourage
the admin to contact Tech Support, but require a credit card, even for free
install support.  This is a cheap shot, is unecessary, and is neglectful of your
customers.  As a result, MM has gained a reputaton of having a Tech Support
department that sucks big time.  I suggest that Macromedia adopt a common sense
set of businss ethics and enforce them from the top on down., the sooner the
better.  One item that should be in bold letters, is treat all customers with
respect or be subject to immediagte termination.  They should bear in mind that
a system admin who spends days worth of unproductinve time is trying to
configure your software, is subject to being fired.

Those of you who are Macromedia customers should also adopt a higher lever of
respect for your fellow journeymen, and can the arrarogant, belittling, and
insulting replies to those who are desperately seeking help with obviously
broken software.

My .02. for a Friday.

|

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Re: Pros & Cons of RIAs

[Jochem van Dieten]

Bryan Stevenson wrote:
> From: "Adrocknaphobia Jones" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
>>- Requires a plug-in
> 
> Ya there sure are tonnes of folks without it ;-)

Well, it would be about 4 times as expensive for me to buy a PDA and 
phone that support Flash as a PDA and phone that support HTML.

The bottom line is that a very small minority of alterative access 
technologies support Flash. Apart from the fact that resizing and 
rearranging elements in a canvas is quite a bit more natural and 
readable in (X)HTML as in Flash.


> -no more corss browser nonsense

You mean that if IE works Opera works too? ;-)


> -far greater control over UI

This is something I don't understand. Why would a developer want control 
over the UI?
Traditional designers for papers had a tremendous control over the look 
and feel of what they produced. But then they had a fixed medium. 
Everybody got a piece of paper that was the same size and the same color 
so it made sense to give it the same layout. But now, with all the new 
media available, I don't think a developer *can* make a choice of how 
the look and feel should be. He hardly knows whether I am using a PDA or 
a computer, he doesn't know if I am inside or out in the sun, he doesn't 
know if my screen is 72 or 96 dpi, he doesn't know anything.

There is an increasing number of sites where I switch of the loading of 
images and set my browser to overrule the colors and fonts set by the 
website developer. And as more and more browsers implement the User 
Agent Accessibility Guidelines, I expect that it will be increasingly 
more common that people will claim control over the look and feel of a 
site they are visiting. Besides, people love it if they can tweak a site 
to look exactly like they want ;-)

The bottom line of a move towards a semantic web is that no longer a 
developer chooses the look and feel, the visitor chooses the look and 
feel. Flash goes directly against this trend, and it will be interesting 
to see how that plays out.


> -ablity to build Flash apps that connect to a DB WITHOUT a scripting
> langauge (no remoting)

Mozilla talks to databases directly and natively. All major browsers 
support talking to databases that enable SOAP access. I don't think this 
is an advantage of Flash.


> I'd say RIAs should be looked at for new types of web apps we haven't seen
> yet.  There are certainly alot of common web apps today that it doesn't make
> sense for.  Basically anything that you've had to come up with
> workarounds/hacks/kludges to get to work interface wise may be an RIA
> candidate.  I'm sure we've all pulled off something in HTML that we just
> didn't feel good about...but it worked...kinda ;-)  That's were RIAs step
> up.

I think Flash applications could make killer remote database 
administration tools for databases that have a SOAP interface. The 
downside of using Flash for this is that XML is rather inefficient for 
data that is as structured as a resultset, but when building an 
administrative interface you are not dealing with large resultsets anyway.
You could do this in a browser too, but I think Flash would be much 
nicer for this. Same goes for universal LDAP clients, and maybe 
eventually even universal mailclients.

Jochem

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RE: Pros & Cons of RIAs

[Dave Watts]

> So, in all the responses I've gotten, I've seen "RIAs are
> not for you then" "RIAs really don't make for good 
> e-commerce". So my question is: When is an RIA justified? 
> When is there a benefit to create an RIA over an HTML 
> application? 

I don't know if there's a bright line that'll be easy to distinguish in all
cases, but in general, I'd argue that rich client applications are better
than HTML applications if you want to approach the kind of functionality you
have in desktop applications. For each project, this may be more important
or less important than other factors, of course.

> In the responses I've gotten, there has only been one Pro, 
> the optimization of bandwidth. I think the other is quite
> obvious, although left unsaid, aesthetics.

I think that the biggest advantage is simply that you can provide more
functionality, and make it easier for the end-user to use your application.
To me, that's much more important than aesthetics.

For example, a while back we had an HR project that involved an
organizational chart. Now, everyone in the business world has a pretty good
idea of how an org chart works already, so the best interface for managing
such a thing would be one that follows that existing idea. Well, you don't
want to be doing that in HTML, let me tell you. Yecch. On the other hand,
it's an ideal use for Flash - drag-and-drop elements within a recognizable
org chart interface.

> So far I my list of cons is:
> - More expensive to develop
> - Requires more developers

I think this is true, to a certain extent. I think that in many respects
it's harder to design Flash interfaces, or VB interfaces for that matter,
than it is to design HTML forms. Of course, I think that this is largely
because those interfaces can do more.

> - No application consistency

This doesn't have anything to do with Flash, and everything to do with
good/bad design.

> - Requires a plug-in

... that's almost universally installed, and pretty easy to install if you
don't have it already.

> - Initial Load Times Increased Dramatically

I think this is generally accurate; I found the same thing to be true when
building JavaScript/DHTML interfaces that cached data on the client. I also
think this is outweighed by the increase in responsiveness and usability
that you get over the course of the application's use.

> - Requirements for internet connection and computer speeds 
> increased

I don't think either of those is necessarily true; I can run Flash
applications on my Pocket PC, which isn't a speed demon.

> - We rely on a sole company to continue and support the 
> technology (MM) rather than a consensus (WC3) *No one 
> can buy the wc3 and discontinue HTML

No one can buy the SWF file specification, either, as far as that goes, so
this is a pretty minor concern to me.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444

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RE: Day 3 Opera works! Re: The New Macromedia Website

[Dave Watts]

> Yes if you could copy and paste from within flash, open 
> links in new windows and do everything you could with HTML
> in standard i would be happy with flash.
> 
> it is extremly annoying and i would hope flash EVENTUALLY 
> lets you do the same type things you can with html if it 
> is the thing MM wants to become the standard it has to 
> allow to do the things people have been doing for 10 years.

All of those things seem appropriate for content, but less so for
applications. I'd definitely stick with HTML for most content, I think.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444

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RE: cfmx server problem: serving zero-length pages

[Dave Watts]

> we are hosting a site that we've just recently moved to mx, 
> and even after months on internal testing, we are now running 
> into a very odd problem in production. Occasionally, the site 
> will "stop working" by serving up what appear to be 
> zero-length files. My vagueness here is deliberate -- there 
> are no smoking guns in the log files, and as far as IIS is 
> concerned, the website is still functioning. So to get the 
> site working again, we have to do hard reboots (stopping & 
> starting the services doesn't get it back on its feet).
> 
> Relevant variables:
> 
> -- CFMX, W2K, IIS, SQL2K
> -- FB3 site using SES urls

You might want to try enabling the built-in JRun web server (in addition to
using IIS), and see if that also becomes unresponsive when this happens.
That would determine whether the problem was with CFMX itself, or with IIS,
or with the ISAPI connector.

Instructions on configuring the JRun web server are here:
http://www.macromedia.com/support/coldfusion/adv_development/config_builtin_
webserver/

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444

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RE: The New Macromedia Website

[Dave Watts]

> But what about the universal standard usability in HTML 
> based applications? The power of HTML is its standardization. 
> A drop down box is a drop down box no matter the browser, 
> OS, internet connection. A user who recognizes an underlined 
> word as a link, can assume that for all HTML based applications.
> 
> You want to throw away everything the user has become 
> accustomed to, and rewriting your own rules of usability 
> for every application, and this is supposed to provide 
> the user with a better experience? Seems like you are 
> just going to alienate the user, and make surfing the 
> web increasingly difficult.

When I read this, I had a real deja-vu moment.

When I first started building web applications, these same arguments were
used against them, by people building client-server applications - HTML
simply didn't provide standard user interfaces like, say, every Windows
application IDE (VB, Delphi, VC++, etc). In every typical client-server
application, you had a very clear standard for forms-based interfaces, and
they all pretty much looked alike and acted alike. Within HTML, on the other
hand, you had pictures all over the place, there's no concept of a grid
layout, and after every significant user action, you typically redraw the
entire interface!

Now, while people have gotten more or less used to that in their HTML
interfaces, there's enough difference between many of them that it's very
hard to apply consistent lessons, from a user's perspective. This problem is
serious enough to keep Jakob Neilsen and his ilk in demand, so it obviously
hasn't been solved yet.

Flash, like HTML, allows the developer to make an interface unlike all the
others, but it doesn't stop you from following common interface standards.
All other things being equal, a Flash interface can provide more
functionality than an HTML interface for an application; bad Flash
interfaces may be worse than good HTML interfaces, but a good Flash
interface can be better than a good HTML one.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444

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RE: CFMX null null errors

[Ezine]

Interesting,

In the past..I have seen this only on a site that is hit pretty hard..
(1 million hits a day+)..  thanks for the info in checking into the
cfform tag.

Zine


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 2:55 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CFMX null null errors


I'm not using CFFORM at all. I think it may happen when trying to use
rereplace() on a large string. Could this be the culprit?

Brook

At 11:39 AM 3/6/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>java.lang.StackOverflowError means that the JVM ran out of room in memory
>for processing more method calls.  This shouldn't happen under normal use;
>it's usually tied to runaway recursive calls, or possibly infinite loops.
>I'd check for either of those cases, perhaps with some code library that
>you're using on all your forms.  I successfully submit huge forms (up to
>about 80 fields) to CFMX without any issues, so I suspect its a problem
with
>the CF code being executed, not the CF server.  However, it might be tied
to
>using CFFORM for validation, if you're using it.  I'm not on my forms, so
>that might be the difference.
>
>HTH,
>barneyb
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 11:33 AM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: CFMX null null errors
> >
> >
> > Does any one know when these CFMX null null errors come from? It looks
to
> > me like when a form with lots of fields (30+) gets submitted, sometimes
> > this happens.
> >
> > The error diagnostics are:
> >
> > null null The error occurred on line -1.
> > Type java.lang.StackOverflowError
> >
> > and sometimes in the browser all you see is "500 Null".
> >
> > Anyone seen this also?
> >
> > Brook Davies
> > logiforms.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

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RE: The New Macromedia Website(ODBC)

[Chris Alvarado]

I agree with Mr Watts here completely.
-

The people that are being /SO/ very critical, I have a few questions for
you.

1) Are you willing to claim that your applications are 100% without
errors?

2) Are you willing to STOP using software that contains errors? (better
say no, or might want to uninstall any of the following - MS Office, MS
Windows, MS everything. . . Bye bye computer =)

Also, how active are you in helping get rid of these bugs?

When windows prompts you to report an error do you send it to them? Or
do you just click cancel?

People are always talking about how Macromedia should foster a Community
environment for their apps. I see them making real effort but instead of
helping them get to the bottom of these issues, all I see is the usual
piss and moan for the most part.

I would be very interested to see how large the CF Bug DB (reported by
users) is. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if it wasn't very
large.

If it weren't for Macromedia (and companies like them) we would not have
many of the cool things we do. Practical always? No. But a good start
towards a keen idea? Usually very much so.

Think back a bit to the bloated performance nightmare Java applets with
their flashy ripple water effects etc. What once was a language used for
clunky front end eye candy and "bells and whistles", was replanned,
reworked and reimplemented as one of the most robust server side
languages in use (imo).

It all has to start somewhere. In the end I would rather see Macromedia
take a few swings at developing cool tools for use to build cool things
with before getting it right, over seeing a company like M$ take a few
swings then stamping it out because it doesn't fit the M@ "model"
(whatever the hell that is anymore).

/rant

Sorry bout the rant folks, I know I very rarely chime in. This is just a
subject that jabs me the wrong way sometimes.

So,

Kudos to Macromedia. With time and dedication /WE/ (that's right WE)
will get it right...=)

-chris



-Original Message-
From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 3:39 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: The New Macromedia Website(ODBC)


> Am just bringing up issues here...FOR the General GOOD 
> OF CFMX!.

It's one thing to say, hey, there's a problem and it should be fixed if
possible. It's another thing to say that the product shouldn't have been
released because of it.

> IF the Community/MM thinks a CFMX BUG is trivial, i can play 
> along with that.

Most bugs aren't trivial to the people who run into them, I suppose.
Nobody
is asking you to "play along" with anything. But that doesn't mean your
goals will be well served by your actions.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444


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RE: Pros & Cons of RIAs

[Stacy Young]

All of our internal projects are now RIA's...I'm on the third one...here
is my opinion inline below...


So far I my list of cons is:
- More expensive to develop

>> Initially, absolutely. Unless you have folks with the skillset
in-house. However, with each passing project, I believe it to be
"cheaper" not just in development hours but weighed against results.
Mileage will vary on the skill and determination of the group in
question. ;-)

- Requires more developers

>> Not necessarily. We haven't hired any newbies...but we're taking a
hit on training.

- No application consistency

>> We've begun developing our own "flash component set" that contains
all our skinned components and new ones built from scratch which are
used in all projects and offer beautiful consistency.

- Requires a plug-in

>> Agreed. I believe this only to be a factor on external
deploymentsand how much of a factor depends on project in question.

- Initial Load Times Increased Dramatically

>> Disagree. While MM's site is slow in comparison to straight
HTML...our internal apps are not...the login page loads instantly...and
after the login process the load time is slightly longer than straight
HTML...not from bandwidth perspective but from the hit you take from
component initialization. KEEP IT SIMPLE.

- Requirements for internet connection and computer speeds increased

>> Don't think so...so far each of our complete apps have been < 100kb
in total size.

- We rely on a sole company to continue and support the technology (MM)
rather than a consensus (WC3) *No one can buy the wc3 and discontinue
HTML

>> True I guess...personally I don't give a hoot as long as the
progression is systematic and beneficial in the end.

>> My Cons
>> 1) Component initialization is slow.

>> 2) Drives me nuts when different components have different version of
base classes...and when flash asks you whether or not to "replace"
existing version...it's like Russian roulette. ;-)


My list of pros:
- After initial load bandwidth can be used more efficiently

>> pure service based architecture. It's sweet

- Aesthetics

>> Folks love our new stuff.

Do we have any case studies comparing RIAs to HTML applications? I've
heard the pitch numerous times from MM in the last year. I've been
hearing it for about 4 year (Generator).

Seriously I'm not trying to trash MM or RIAs...  I'm just trying to
develop a set of rules so I know when it _is_ justified to develop and
RIA.

Let's please keep this out of the realms of business politics of MM and
how they treat developers and have a discussion solely on RIAs.

Adam Wayne Lehman
Web Systems Developer
Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health
Distance Education Division


-Original Message-
From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 11:34 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: The New Macromedia Website

> > However, to put things bluntly, HTML sucks. It sucks really 
> > bad. It's the worst thing to happen to application interfaces 
> > in the short history of computing, next to the QWERTY keyboard. 
> > The success of HTML interfaces has been in spite of this 
> > awful step backwards in interface design, not because of it.
> 
> HTML doesn't suck. It's a beautifully simple means of presenting 
> textual information. And with CSS, the potential is there for 
> it to be presented just as elegantly as any print-based layout. 
> However, HTML wasn't designed to function as an application 
> user interface. Which then gets to everything else you said.

Yes, I just assumed that people would understand that I was criticizing
HTML
as an interface for applications. It's fine for content.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444



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Re: Day 3 Opera works! Re: The New Macromedia Website

[Mike Chambers]

Agreed. That is why the vast majority of the content in our site is in html.

mike chambers

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

- Original Message -
From: "Joe Eugene" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 1:22 PM
Subject: RE: Day 3 Opera works! Re: The New Macromedia Website


> >Of course, most of what's interesting on the Macromedia site is >content,
and HTML is better for that.
>
> Dave.. Now you are talking! No need for complicated overhead.. when there
is no need/use for it.
>
> Joe
>

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RE: Installation problem Wont ANYONE help?????

[Ezine]

lol,   I had to re-build the  DSNs when I upgraded to CFMX.(  NT 4.0 SP6a)..
but I happily did..   and it has been working since..

Installation never failed for me..   but it didn't work right off..
had to edit a JRUN XML file to get it to work.   *shrugs*such is the way
of upgrading..   expect the unexpected.. and then you still get hit
on the head.

-Zine.

-Original Message-
From: James Blaha [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 2:49 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Installation problem Wont ANYONE help?


Below is an easy step-by-step configuration approach for windows web server
configuration. Applicable for IIS, Apache and iPlanet.  Please ignore steps
that do not apply.

1) Stop your web server.
2) Please uninstall CFMX,
3) Delete any registry key for HKLM\Software\Macromedia\ColdFusion,
4) Delete the  and rename the CFIDE and CFDOCS from
your IIS webroot.
5) Reboot your machine.
6) On reinstalling CFMX, please use the stand alone webserver that came with
CFMX.
7) Try to access the CFMX Administrator on port 8500.
8) From your \Bin\Connectors folder, double click on the
particular connector you wish to work with CFMX.  If you receive an error
stating that Jrun is not started, please close the DOS window and launch
C:\CFusionMX\Bin\cfstart.bat then launch the _connector.bat again.
9) A directory C:\CFusionMX\runtime\lib\wsconfig\1, should have been created
with jrun.dll for IIS, mod_jrun.so for Apache and jrun_nsapi35.dll inside
the 1 directory.
10) Please verify from your CF documentation on what entries should have
been created/inserted to Apache and Netscape conf files.  For IIS, there
might be a need to Map .cfm to C:\CFusionMX\runtime\lib\wsconfig\1\jrun.dll
in your IIS console.  To apply the instruction, please go to START >
SETTINGS > CONTROL PANEL > ADMINISTRATIVE TOOLS > INTERNET SERVICES MANAGER.
Double click on the computer icon/name. Right click on the Default website,
or onto the virtual site you need to define the mapping, and select
properties.  Click on the Home Directory tab and click on the Configuration
button.  This is where internet documents are mapped, by their extension,
and this is where you will need to apply Step # 10.
11) If you did not delete or rename your old CFIDE and CFDOCS folders from
your webroot, please rename/delete them now and copy the CFIDE and CFDOCS
folders from \wwwroot to your webroot.
12) Try launching the CFMX Administrator using the port of your web server.

~|
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Re: The New Macromedia Website(ODBC)

[jon hall]

Friday, March 7, 2003, 4:38:38 PM, you wrote:
>> Am just bringing up issues here...FOR the General GOOD 
>> OF CFMX!.

DW> It's one thing to say, hey, there's a problem and it should be fixed if
DW> possible. It's another thing to say that the product shouldn't have been
DW> released because of it.

>> IF the Community/MM thinks a CFMX BUG is trivial, i can play 
>> along with that.

DW> Most bugs aren't trivial to the people who run into them, I suppose. Nobody
DW> is asking you to "play along" with anything. But that doesn't mean your
DW> goals will be well served by your actions.

I think one of the root causes of this kind of frustration is that
it's very difficult to know what the status of a fix is. The bug list
isn't public, and if it is available to anyone outside of macromedia
they don't mention it anywhere, or are limited by some kind of nda.

We ran into a bug yesterday (gethttpRequestData) that almost cost us a
client, now for two hours we banged away at the problem until we
figured out it had to be a bug, I searched cf-talk, and was able to
confirm it was a known bug, and get working on a fix. Some kind of bug
database would probably go a long way towards alleviating some
frustration. Java, PHP, and MS all have public bug databases...why
can't CF? All we have are the very few technotes which address maybe
1% of outstanding bugs.

-- 
 jon
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: The New Macromedia Website

[Dave Watts]

> How can you say that XML has achieved it's popularity 
> solely on vendor actions? The spec and idea came first; 
> vendor support followed.

There are many specs and many ideas; few make it to fruition and become
useful products. XML is popular because there are a bunch of products that
use XML, and because it embodies a really good idea and does it tolerably
well.

> I think that the circumstances are all different. Standards 
> bodies don't, as a rule ever drive development they, well, 
> standardize it.

That's essentially my argument, in a nutshell. The original post that
started this all off was arguing that standards drove development, if I
recall correctly. My counterargument is that they may channel development,
but they don't drive it, typically.

> In the case of Flash vrs SVG it's not a fair comparison.  
> Flash is an application platform with full scripting and 
> animation capabilities. SVG is simple a file format for 
> vector graphics like an open CMX or WPG. I think that 
> it's VERY likely that Flash will accept SVG graphics as
> input soon (just as it now accepts PNG, another W3C standard, 
> as input) but the two technologies aren't in competition.

My comparison may not be fair, but I think it's accurate. While Flash is now
considered an application platform, that's not how it started - back when it
was called FutureSplash or whatever, it was a vector graphics and animation
tool. As for SVG, the W3C might argue that it's more than just a file format
for vector graphics:

http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/interact.html
http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/script.html
http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/animate.html

But yes, really, there's no comparison - SVG isn't anywhere near Flash as
far as what we can do with it, today.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444

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Re: New MM.com

[Jochem van Dieten]

Mike Chambers wrote:
> From: "Jochem van Dieten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Benjamin S. Rogers wrote:
>>
>>>I've always avoided HTML compression because of bugs in various browsers
>>>(such as IE handing the compressed data off to plugins such as Flash
>>>instead of the uncompressed data). Is this no longer the case? Are
>>>people using HTML compression in production environments successfully?
>>
>>I have never used HTTP compression together with Flash, but for normal
>>pages it is just fine.
>>
> Fyi, It should work fine with Flash.

Then please consider this an enhancement request for the MM website ;-)

Jochem

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RE: Day 3 Opera works! Re: The New Macromedia Website

[Joe Eugene]

>Of course, most of what's interesting on the Macromedia site is >content, and HTML is 
>better for that.

Dave.. Now you are talking! No need for complicated overhead.. when there is no 
need/use for it. 

Joe

---Original Message---
From: Dave Watts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 03/07/03 03:54 PM
To: CF-Talk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Day 3 Opera works! Re: The New Macromedia Website

> 
> > I was reading Dave Watts post about HTML sucking earlier 
> and i am really curious dave why do you think it sucks.

I hardly know where to begin. There are just so many reasons why it's bad
for application interfaces. Just imagine if, for everything you did on
your
computer, you had to do it through an HTML interface. Just compare it to
the
desktop applications you use everyday.

HTML (or rather HTTP) is stateless, HTML isn't event-driven, HTML controls
are very limited, and so on. It's great for formatting documents for
people
to read. That's about it.
 
> Sure it has a few weak points but all the nice pretty 
> flash is just pretty and its really a pain in the ass how 
> they implemented it on macromedia. I use the site everyday 
> i dont need pretty i need it to work and html does that
> nicely. Of course html is annoying because its stateless 
> yadda yadda.

I'm not a big fan of the "nice pretty flash", either. I like functionality
and usability. But I do think that you can get more functionality and
usability with Flash than you can with HTML for application interfaces. Of
course, most of what's interesting on the Macromedia site is content, and
HTML is better for that.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/";>http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444


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RE: The New Macromedia Website(ODBC)

[Dave Watts]

> Am just bringing up issues here...FOR the General GOOD 
> OF CFMX!.

It's one thing to say, hey, there's a problem and it should be fixed if
possible. It's another thing to say that the product shouldn't have been
released because of it.

> IF the Community/MM thinks a CFMX BUG is trivial, i can play 
> along with that.

Most bugs aren't trivial to the people who run into them, I suppose. Nobody
is asking you to "play along" with anything. But that doesn't mean your
goals will be well served by your actions.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444

~|
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Re: cfloop/index question

[Dina Hess]

> > The reason each checkbox has a unique name (service + number) is so the
> form
> > can "autocheck" a particular service. Let's say a customer is on the
> > "Fluorescent Bulb Disposal" page and hits the "Send Me More Info"
button.
> > The form comes up with "Fluorescent Bulb Disposal" (service 370) already
> > checked. They can then look over the list and see if they want
information
> > on anything else while they're at it.
>>
> > I could use the service value as the checkbox value, but then I'd have
to
> > build a lookup table with 80 services listed to see what names to put on
> the
> > response email that went out. The client that owns the site doesn't have
> > code numbers or anything for the services, I assigned those. Client only
> > goes by the Service Names


If that's the only reason you're giving each checkbox a unique name, you may
want to consider using a CFIF within your INPUT tag to check the appropriate
checkboxes based on the value of a URL parameter or, better yet, a hidden
form field, like this:

checked>

That way, you eliminate the need for a cryptic service code that's not truly
tied to the service name. If you ever have a need to check more than one
checkbox based on the source page, you can just pass a list in the hidden
form field and change your CFIF statement to: 

This solution will also scale well:



   #i#



~Dina

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Re: Installation problem Wont ANYONE help?????

[Bryan Stevenson]

I tried...you ignored my questionshave a nice weekend ;-)

Bryan Stevenson B.Comm.
VP & Director of E-Commerce Development
Electric Edge Systems Group Inc.
t. 250.920.8830
e. [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-
Macromedia Associate Partner
www.macromedia.com
-
Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group
Founder & Director
www.cfug-vancouverisland.com
- Original Message -
From: "James Blaha" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 11:48 AM
Subject: Installation problem Wont ANYONE help?


> Below is an easy step-by-step configuration approach for windows web
server configuration. Applicable for IIS, Apache and iPlanet.  Please ignore
steps that do not apply.
>
> 1) Stop your web server.
> 2) Please uninstall CFMX,
> 3) Delete any registry key for HKLM\Software\Macromedia\ColdFusion,
> 4) Delete the  and rename the CFIDE and CFDOCS from
your IIS webroot.
> 5) Reboot your machine.
> 6) On reinstalling CFMX, please use the stand alone webserver that came
with CFMX.
> 7) Try to access the CFMX Administrator on port 8500.
> 8) From your \Bin\Connectors folder, double click on the
particular connector you wish to work with CFMX.  If you receive an error
stating that Jrun is not started, please close the DOS window and launch
C:\CFusionMX\Bin\cfstart.bat then launch the _connector.bat again.
> 9) A directory C:\CFusionMX\runtime\lib\wsconfig\1, should have been
created with jrun.dll for IIS, mod_jrun.so for Apache and jrun_nsapi35.dll
inside the 1 directory.
> 10) Please verify from your CF documentation on what entries should have
been created/inserted to Apache and Netscape conf files.  For IIS, there
might be a need to Map .cfm to C:\CFusionMX\runtime\lib\wsconfig\1\jrun.dll
in your IIS console.  To apply the instruction, please go to START >
SETTINGS > CONTROL PANEL > ADMINISTRATIVE TOOLS > INTERNET SERVICES MANAGER.
Double click on the computer icon/name. Right click on the Default website,
or onto the virtual site you need to define the mapping, and select
properties.  Click on the Home Directory tab and click on the Configuration
button.  This is where internet documents are mapped, by their extension,
and this is where you will need to apply Step # 10.
> 11) If you did not delete or rename your old CFIDE and CFDOCS folders from
your webroot, please rename/delete them now and copy the CFIDE and CFDOCS
folders from \wwwroot to your webroot.
> 12) Try launching the CFMX Administrator using the port of your web
server.
> 
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Re: cfcontent problem

[Phillip B]

I GOT IT!

It turns out there was some code in the application.cfm file that was
causing it to break.

Thanks for all the help

Phillip B.


- Original Message -
From: "Dave Watts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 11:51 AM
Subject: RE: cfcontent problem


> > Ok that didn't seem to help much. I just cant seem to get
> > any file to download with the type set to application/unknown.
>
> Maybe you should post your code, and/or a public URL that people can get
to.
>
> Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
> http://www.figleaf.com/
> voice: (202) 797-5496
> fax: (202) 797-5444
>
> 
~|
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Installation problem Wont ANYONE help?????

[James Blaha]

Below is an easy step-by-step configuration approach for windows web server 
configuration. Applicable for IIS, Apache and iPlanet.  Please ignore steps that do 
not apply.

1) Stop your web server.
2) Please uninstall CFMX, 
3) Delete any registry key for HKLM\Software\Macromedia\ColdFusion, 
4) Delete the  and rename the CFIDE and CFDOCS from your IIS 
webroot.
5) Reboot your machine.  
6) On reinstalling CFMX, please use the stand alone webserver that came with CFMX.
7) Try to access the CFMX Administrator on port 8500.
8) From your \Bin\Connectors folder, double click on the particular 
connector you wish to work with CFMX.  If you receive an error stating that Jrun is 
not started, please close the DOS window and launch C:\CFusionMX\Bin\cfstart.bat then 
launch the _connector.bat again.
9) A directory C:\CFusionMX\runtime\lib\wsconfig\1, should have been created with 
jrun.dll for IIS, mod_jrun.so for Apache and jrun_nsapi35.dll inside the 1 directory.
10) Please verify from your CF documentation on what entries should have been 
created/inserted to Apache and Netscape conf files.  For IIS, there might be a need to 
Map .cfm to C:\CFusionMX\runtime\lib\wsconfig\1\jrun.dll in your IIS console.  To 
apply the instruction, please go to START > SETTINGS > CONTROL PANEL > ADMINISTRATIVE 
TOOLS > INTERNET SERVICES MANAGER.  Double click on the computer icon/name. Right 
click on the Default website, or onto the virtual site you need to define the mapping, 
and select properties.  Click on the Home Directory tab and click on the Configuration 
button.  This is where internet documents are mapped, by their extension, and this is 
where you will need to apply Step # 10.
11) If you did not delete or rename your old CFIDE and CFDOCS folders from your 
webroot, please rename/delete them now and copy the CFIDE and CFDOCS folders from 
\wwwroot to your webroot.
12) Try launching the CFMX Administrator using the port of your web server.
~|
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Installation problem Wont ANYONE help?????

[James Blaha]

Below is an easy step-by-step configuration approach for windows web server 
configuration. Applicable for IIS, Apache and iPlanet.  Please ignore steps that do 
not apply.

1) Stop your web server.
2) Please uninstall CFMX, 
3) Delete any registry key for HKLM\Software\Macromedia\ColdFusion, 
4) Delete the  and rename the CFIDE and CFDOCS from your IIS 
webroot.
5) Reboot your machine.  
6) On reinstalling CFMX, please use the stand alone webserver that came with CFMX.
7) Try to access the CFMX Administrator on port 8500.
8) From your \Bin\Connectors folder, double click on the particular 
connector you wish to work with CFMX.  If you receive an error stating that Jrun is 
not started, please close the DOS window and launch C:\CFusionMX\Bin\cfstart.bat then 
launch the _connector.bat again.
9) A directory C:\CFusionMX\runtime\lib\wsconfig\1, should have been created with 
jrun.dll for IIS, mod_jrun.so for Apache and jrun_nsapi35.dll inside the 1 directory.
10) Please verify from your CF documentation on what entries should have been 
created/inserted to Apache and Netscape conf files.  For IIS, there might be a need to 
Map .cfm to C:\CFusionMX\runtime\lib\wsconfig\1\jrun.dll in your IIS console.  To 
apply the instruction, please go to START > SETTINGS > CONTROL PANEL > ADMINISTRATIVE 
TOOLS > INTERNET SERVICES MANAGER.  Double click on the computer icon/name. Right 
click on the Default website, or onto the virtual site you need to define the mapping, 
and select properties.  Click on the Home Directory tab and click on the Configuration 
button.  This is where internet documents are mapped, by their extension, and this is 
where you will need to apply Step # 10.
11) If you did not delete or rename your old CFIDE and CFDOCS folders from your 
webroot, please rename/delete them now and copy the CFIDE and CFDOCS folders from 
\wwwroot to your webroot.
12) Try launching the CFMX Administrator using the port of your web server.
~|
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RE: Day 3 Opera works! Re: The New Macromedia Website

[Dave Watts]

> I was reading Dave Watts post about HTML sucking earlier 
> and i am really curious dave why do you think it sucks.

I hardly know where to begin. There are just so many reasons why it's bad
for application interfaces. Just imagine if, for everything you did on your
computer, you had to do it through an HTML interface. Just compare it to the
desktop applications you use everyday.

HTML (or rather HTTP) is stateless, HTML isn't event-driven, HTML controls
are very limited, and so on. It's great for formatting documents for people
to read. That's about it.
 
> Sure it has a few weak points but all the nice pretty 
> flash is just pretty and its really a pain in the ass how 
> they implemented it on macromedia. I use the site everyday 
> i dont need pretty i need it to work and html does that
> nicely. Of course html is annoying because its stateless 
> yadda yadda.

I'm not a big fan of the "nice pretty flash", either. I like functionality
and usability. But I do think that you can get more functionality and
usability with Flash than you can with HTML for application interfaces. Of
course, most of what's interesting on the Macromedia site is content, and
HTML is better for that.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444

~|
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RE: The New Macromedia Website

[Jim Davis]

> > For HTML this may have been the case, but market forces
> > did force the companies to adopt the core standards 
> > fairly quickly. That's not stopping them from adding 
> > features (and the W3C isn't demanding that they don't) 
> > but it does level the playing field.
> 
> So, again, what did the W3C contribute to this process? 
> Considering that the "core standards" were often driven by 
> what vendors introduced in their products? When did the TABLE 
> tag get introduced into the HTML standard - HTML 4?

The W3C did create the core standards.  When you truly consider the
vendor created markup it really is a small subset (and much of it isn't
in use any longer) - experimentation really.

The core standards, as defined by the W3C, covered almost all the bases
- vendor markup constituted wiz-bang stuff that's not even in use any
longer for the most part.  We don't see "Blink", "Marquee", etc anymore.
Features that stood the test of peer review got added to the spec (such
as iFrame) those that didn't were dropped.

Even "popular" vendor additions (such as Netscape Layers) have receeded
and been replaced by W3C standards as the ramifications of them were
hashed out.

The process IS long, but it is effective.  This is also why the W3C,
unlike many other standards bodies, make interim specs available
constantly.
 
> > I'm just put off by the extreme nature of your comments.
> 
> There's no need to be put off; it's meant purely as an observation.
> 
> > Also, and I'm worried that people simply don't know what
> > the W3C IS anymore, please remember that the vendors you're 
> > talking about are not at odds with the W3C, they ARE the W3C.  
> > It's a mostly vendor-based group with ideas and direction 
> > coming from the vendor community.
> 
> To call the vendors a "community" certainly weakens the value 
> of the word. They're direct competitors, and each values 
> interoperability only to the extent that it's in its own interest.

Exactly - and that's one of the more useful aspects of the W3C - it
allows all these vendors to come together and decide what's "right" for
their collective interests.  It is a community - or perhaps, considering
the arguing, "family" might be a better word.  ;^)

> > Is there no room for moderation? Can you honestly say XML
> > achieved the widespread adoption it enjoys solely due to 
> > vendor implementations? How about HTTP?
> 
> Yes, I can say both of those things. I can also say that 
> vendors may have used those standards because of the pressure 
> applied by their customers, who want interoperability. My 
> statement was simply meant to point out that the W3C doesn't 
> make anything, in any meaningful sense. I don't dislike the 
> W3C, and I prefer their standards to the defacto "standards" 
> of individual vendors, but it's unrealistic to say they're in 
> control of what happens, because they're not.

How can you say that XML has achieved it's popularity solely on vendor
actions?  The spec and idea came first; vendor support followed.

It doesn't really matter HOW the vendors came to use the specs (out of
the goodness of their hearts or customer pressure or mafia
strong-arming), what matters is that the specification was created and
followed.  Without the former you could never have the latter.

> > Lastly would it be so bad if, as you say, that the W3C
> > "only" helped vendors do what they want to do? Assuming 
> > this means "in the least disruptive way" isn't that a good, 
> > needed and noble purpose? How would the landscape look 
> > today if there were no HTML or HTTP standards?
> 
> I think you're reading too much intent into my previous post. 
> I'm simply saying that standards bodies don't drive 
> development, not that they're bad or useless or that we 
> shouldn't have them. However, as a case in point, compare SVG 
> to Flash, and ask yourself which is more likely to succeed, and why.

I think that the circumstances are all different.  Standards bodies
don't, as a rule ever drive development they, well, standardize it.

However in the W3Cs history there has been many cases where they
pushhing development forward.  There was no alternative vendor solutions
to style-sheets for ricj formatting in HTML for example, or to XML for
that matter.

In the case of HTML is was a clear vendor push driving the tech forward
(a vendor push created by the popular acceptance of the web).

I think that the W3C specs for XHTML, XML and other foundational
technologies will push forward the semantic web as well.  But once that
takes off then I expect the pendulum to swing the other way towards a
more vendor driven model.

In the case of Flash vrs SVG it's not a fair comparison.  Flash is an
application platform with full scripting and animation capabilities.
SVG is simple a file format for vector graphics like an open CMX or WPG.
I think that it's VERY likely that Flash will accept SVG graphics as
input soon (just as it now accepts PNG, another W3C standard, as input)
but 

Secret Agents Website

[Fregas]

Has anyone seen any projects on SecretAgents.com ?  Seems pretty quiet there

Fregas

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Re: Installation problem with MX - HELP!!

[James Blaha]

Below is an easy step-by-step configuration approach for windows web server 
configuration. Applicable for IIS, Apache and iPlanet.  Please ignore steps that do 
not apply.

1) Stop your web server.
2) Please uninstall CFMX, 
3) Delete any registry key for HKLM\Software\Macromedia\ColdFusion, 
4) Delete the  and rename the CFIDE and CFDOCS from your IIS 
webroot.
5) Reboot your machine.  
6) On reinstalling CFMX, please use the stand alone webserver that came with CFMX.
7) Try to access the CFMX Administrator on port 8500.
8) From your \Bin\Connectors folder, double click on the particular 
connector you wish to work with CFMX.  If you receive an error stating that Jrun is 
not started, please close the DOS window and launch C:\CFusionMX\Bin\cfstart.bat then 
launch the _connector.bat again.
9) A directory C:\CFusionMX\runtime\lib\wsconfig\1, should have been created with 
jrun.dll for IIS, mod_jrun.so for Apache and jrun_nsapi35.dll inside the 1 directory.
10) Please verify from your CF documentation on what entries should have been 
created/inserted to Apache and Netscape conf files.  For IIS, there might be a need to 
Map .cfm to C:\CFusionMX\runtime\lib\wsconfig\1\jrun.dll in your IIS console.  To 
apply the instruction, please go to START > SETTINGS > CONTROL PANEL > ADMINISTRATIVE 
TOOLS > INTERNET SERVICES MANAGER.  Double click on the computer icon/name. Right 
click on the Default website, or onto the virtual site you need to define the mapping, 
and select properties.  Click on the Home Directory tab and click on the Configuration 
button.  This is where internet documents are mapped, by their extension, and this is 
where you will need to apply Step # 10.
11) If you did not delete or rename your old CFIDE and CFDOCS folders from your 
webroot, please rename/delete them now and copy the CFIDE and CFDOCS folders from 
\wwwroot to your webroot.
12) Try launching the CFMX Administrator using the port of your web server.



Bryan Stevenson wrote:

>Man I'd stop slagging people for not helping or not caring..it's not going
>to get you any help.  It could simply be that nobody has an answer for you.
>
>IMHO you should not install a new CF Server in the last 30 minutes of your
>daythat's your oversight and not ours.
>
>Why did you want them to co-exist in the first place?
>
>Did you try and install CFMX to run through IIS along with CF 5 or did you
>try and install it to run off the standalone server?  AFAIK it can only
>co-exist with previous CF versions if it runs through the standalone server.
>
>Have you tried tech support?
>
>Bryan Stevenson B.Comm.
>VP & Director of E-Commerce Development
>Electric Edge Systems Group Inc.
>t. 250.920.8830
>e. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>-
>Macromedia Associate Partner
>www.macromedia.com
>-
>Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group
>Founder & Director
>www.cfug-vancouverisland.com
>- Original Message -
>From: "Michael Kear" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 10:10 AM
>Subject: RE: Installation problem with MX - HELP!!
>
>
>  
>
>>Well I think I have no choice but to give up.  I have been trying to get
>>someone  to help with my problem for 3and a half hours now, and its
>>after 5am Saturday. I still have a partial installation of CFMX. It
>>doesn't work and nor does my previous CF5.0.  What began at 9pm last
>>night as what I thought would be a 20-30 minute job before stopping work
>>has turned into an 8 hour nightmare with no sign of any solution.
>>
>>No one seems to be able to see what my problem is.  All I've had in the
>>last 3.5 hours is either "calm down and fix your problem" or "rtm" or
>>being told to do something that's at least 4 steps past where the
>>installation got to.
>>
>>
>>The problem is this:  I was stupid enough to believe the Macromedia docs
>>when they said CFMX could coexist on a winXPPRO system with CF5.0.  When
>>it proved that it would work but only if you measure response times with
>>a calendar, I decided to bite the bullet and go for CFMX on my Dev
>>server rather than both servers.   I removed the CFMX, and reinstalled
>>it according to the installation instructions on the Macromedia site.
>>Out of 11 steps, it got to step 7 and won't go further.  NO one has
>>seemed to grasp this notion so far.
>>
>>
>>I think I am going to have to tear down all my CF server stuff, and
>>rebuild CF5.0 from scratch, then probably have to redo all my DSNs too
>>because last time I installed CF it broke all the DSN settings. It'll do
>>it again probably.   Somehow I'll have to figure out which Macromedia
>>registry keys are for Fireworks, which for DWMX, which for FlashMX so I
>>can leave those there, and which are for CFMX and which for CF5.0.
>>
>>
>>I just apologise for having such a boring problem that no one wants to
>>bother with it any more.   I tried to look in House of Fusion's ar

SOT: DWMX Insert Panel / Keyboard Shortcuts Problems

[Dave Carabetta]

I've searched through the DWMX forums on MM's site, and all I've seen are 
similar questions, but no answers.

I have 2 issues with DWMX 6.1 on Win2k Pro:

1. I have no access whatsoever to the different options in the "Insert" 
panel. I can click the tabs themselves, but the actual options are grayed 
out.

2. I'm trying to set up my own shortcuts, but they do not work. I have 
duplicated an existing set, changed the shortcut itself (overriding the 
warning that one already exists), clicked OK twice, re-started DWMX, and 
nothing happens. When I go to Preferences->Keyboard Shortcuts, my new set 
(called "My Shortcuts") appears as the default with the options set up, but 
nothing happens when I try and actually use them in the editor.

Anybody have any insight/experience with either of the above problems? I'm 
trying to ween myself of CF Studio 5 (especially because of the easy 
integration with SourceSafe in DWMX), and I miss my shortcuts!!

Thanks in advance,
Dave.


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“Restore Down” option kills my Ap plication in Netscape 4.7

[James Blaha]

Hello All:

http://127.0.0.1/HR/Test/

I have an odd issue in Netscape 4.7. I have a framed page that has an 
application that functions inside it, this way the user isn’t looking at 
the changing URL's and variables. My issue happens when the user selects 
the “Restore Down” option to the left of the close window option on the 
browser. If they select this Netscape reloads the index.cfm file e.g. 
http://127.0.0.1/HR/Test/index.cfm and the user looses where they where 
in the application.

Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions?

Regards,
James Blaha


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Re: Pros & Cons of RIAs

[jon hall]

Friday, March 7, 2003, 2:35:11 PM, you wrote:
BS> -excellent "wow" value when showing clients (that can make/break a sale)

I may disagree with the some of your points, but this is the one that
matters, and it is totally true from what I've seen. I rarely see a
client get excited about usability, they are already used to computers
being difficult to use unfortunately.

Everyone knows when they think something is cool, whether it be a
flash interface or a dancing palm tree with a miami vice wav playing
in the background (true story...).

In the end though, the guy with the dancing palm tree on his ecommerce
site is going to go out of business because he has no clue what the
web is about, and we won't get any more money from him. Those that
have useable, maintainable sites will still be in business and we will
still get money from them. Long term vs short term...I think a Flash
based site still takes more resources to maintain, and our main art guy
still charges more for a basic flash intro than for a basic site
design...

Maybe I'm a minority, but I think zeldman.com, or is much cooler looking
than macromedia.com, and much more usable.

-- 
 jon
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Pros & Cons of RIAs

[Christian Cantrell]

On Friday, March 7, 2003, at 02:14 PM, Adrocknaphobia Jones wrote:

> - More expensive to develop
> - Requires more developers

I built my first RIAs when CFMX was in beta.  I put together about five 
relatively simple RIAs for a series of Flash and ColdFusion integration 
tutorials.  I will admit that my first couple took me longer to build 
than if I had built the exact same functionality just in HTML and 
ColdFusion.  However, once I learned what I was doing, I was able to 
build Flash applications every bit as quickly as I could build them in 
pure ColdFusion.  I'm not much of a designer, so I turned them over to 
a professional to clean up a little which worked out nicely because the 
designer I used was very familiar and comfortable with Flash.  I'm not 
sure why you say RIAs are more expensive to develop, but I assume you 
mean because of time.  My experience has been that at the very worst, 
once you get over the initial overhead of learning what you are doing 
and adjusting your workflow, you should be spending about the same 
amount of time on your RIAs as you were on your CFMX apps.  To be 
honest, it is not an insignificant learning curve, but I actually had 
quite a bit of fun getting familiar with the new technology, so it 
didn't feel like a chore to me.

That said, HTML applications are going to be around for some time to 
come, so if that is what you are most comfortable with, by all means, 
stick with it.  But in the meantime, Macromedia is going to present 
developers with some pretty interesting options.

Christian

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RE: running CF as different user/or use FTP

[Cantrell, Adam]

Dave, thanks for the article, and your help is always appreciated. I think
I'll go with FTP on this one, but I'll look into running CF as a different
user anyway for the mentioned security benefit.

ps. the reason we need to update this file, and why it's on another server:

We run a few mailing lists that we need to make private by turning off
subscribe requests sent to them. The only way for registered users to
subscribe/unsubscribe will then be through the 'account preferences' section
after they're registered, approved, and logged into the site. Our mailing
list software, on another server, reads a file when it needs to know its
subscribed user base. This is the file I'll be overwriting through FTP. This
also makes backing up the mailing list software's configuration easy, as I
will be storing users' subscription information in the database as well.

There's the concern that constantly overwriting this file may conflict with
the mailing list software trying to constantly read from it, but our user
base is relatively low, and the traffic on these mailing lists is even
lower. Given that the two servers are on the same network, and that this
file will never reach much more than a few k - the risk of this happening
will be pretty low. Also, my figure of 10 - 50 updates to the file per day
is highly inflated, it will realistically be around 0 - 5 times per day
given how many new subscribe requests we can expect (the audience these
lists serve is a finite number of people).

Thanks again. Adam.


> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 1:00 PM
> To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
> Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
> Subject: RE: running CF as different user/or use FTP
> 
> 
> > What are some of the known implications with starting CF 
> > as another user, if any? I need access to a file on 
> > another server for one very small component, and am 
> > trying to weigh the pros/cons of using either a network 
> > share, or going through FTP. If I understand correctly, 
> > in order to use a network share you have to start CF 
> > with an account that has the proper permissions on that 
> > share.
> > 
> > This will be a file that needs to be updated fairly 
> > frequently: 10 - 50 times per day. What would you do?
> 
> Yes, to use a Windows Networking share, you'll need CF to run 
> as a user
> which can see the share. To run CF as a different user, 
> you'll need to make
> sure that the user account has permissions on all the right files and
> registry keys. There's a good writeup of this for CF 5 here:
> 
> http://www.defusion.com/articles/index.cfm?ArticleID=89
> 
> It's actually quite a bit easier with CFMX, since there's no 
> significant
> registry data - just ensure that the CFMX user account has 
> rights to the
> \CFusionMX directory and your .cfm files, more or less.
> 
> However, granting this user account rights to your network might be a
> security issue. That's really up to you to decide.
> 
> I would probably go with FTP, if you just want to fetch a 
> file from one
> server to another, as long as the server already had FTP on 
> it. You could
> limit FTP access to only allow connections from the web/CF 
> server, and you
> wouldn't have to grant any Windows networking rights to do this.
> 
> You might want to reconsider the whole thing, though. Why 
> does the file need
> to be on the second server in the first place? Why not move 
> it to your web
> server, and fetch it from there when you need it via FTP or HTTP?
> 
> Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
> http://www.figleaf.com/
> voice: (202) 797-5496
> fax: (202) 797-5444
> 

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RE: The New Macromedia Website(ODBC)

[Kevin Graeme]

> The problem that I see is that a lot of people who do nothing but complain
> about a *supposed* CFMX bug waste a lot of time because they
> refuse to call
> tech support.

And how much does it cost to call Tech Support? I need to get a bug in
FlashMX addressed, but from their site it looks like it's now $200/incident
call.

And even if they still do the "if it's a real bug then we'll refund you" I
still can't call because my purchasing department doesn't give out the CC.

I simply can't get support from MM. The best I can hope for is an answer on
a list like this one.

-Kevin


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Re: RE: The New Macromedia Website(ODBC)

[Joe Eugene]

Really Funny LOL..

When was the last time.. you read a Java Book on JDBC...?
Every Java book..probably talks about advantages and disadvantages..of JDBC/ODBC 
Drives.. This is nothing new in CFMX Product Manuals..

I guess when you develop an application.. and you user complains something is wrong.. 
you probably tell him...

"Oh.. I really didnt mean that to work!. That was left over code from BETA.."Have you 
read the manuals?.." I really did mention it in the manuals!." Do you want me to send 
someone to read the manuals to you? 

We really do have some passionate CF Developers...LOL :)

Joe 

---Original Message---
From: Andrew Tyrone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 03/07/03 02:56 PM
To: CF-Talk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: The New Macromedia Website(ODBC)

> 
> > -Original Message-
> From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 11:26 AM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: The New Macromedia Website(ODBC)
>
>
> Dave..
> >I know plenty of people running CFMX production servers right
> >now. They might disagree with your conclusion about releasing
> >too soon. Maybe if you want to use ODBC to talk to your AS400
> >DB2, but >that's a pretty small segment of users I suspect.
>
> I have been able to come up with an alternative (Java) solution
> to every problem i have come across in CFMX..(*SO FAR*) and i
> dont have a problem implementing them...
> So i really DONT have to Bi**ch about something NOT working in CFMX...
> Am just bringing up issues here...FOR the General GOOD OF CFMX!.
> IF the Community/MM thinks a CFMX BUG is trivial, i can play
> along with that.
>
> Joe Eugene

The problem that I see is that a lot of people who do nothing but complain
about a *supposed* CFMX bug waste a lot of time because they refuse to call tech 
support.  It's always struck me that these same people would call tech support in a 
minute if they were sure it was a CFMX bug.  I recall one of these people complaining 
about ODBC and how the disclaimer about it not
being recommended was nowhere to be found.  It was, however, in the documentation.  Of 
course, people don't have time to read the
documentation, but they have time to write 500 messages to cf-talk to say how crappy 
MM tech support is and that they shouldn't have to pay for support because they've 
found a bug in CFMX.

I have a good idea: I think MM should have Christian Cantrell shipped via
UPS with every CFMX purchase so he can read the documentation to everyone
who feels he should know every installation caveat without ever reading
anything about the product.  He could also come with a roll of toilet
paper.

--Andy



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