date:20091010


I have an app that run's a process every 20 seconds during the day...

is there a way to force it to use real memory rather than virtual?

because it runs every 20 seconds,  and is defaulting to normal memory  
allocation,


it has a lot of disk swapping in and out,  many many times during the  
day,  and it seems like this
 would negatively effect the life of a disk and performance of the  
whole machine?


Jon.
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Re: NSURLRequest

2009-10-10 Thread Michael Dautermann



On Oct 10, 2009, at 7:36 AM, DKJ wrote:

I've got an NSArray that I initialise with data from a plist stored  
on a remote webserver. I've been doing it like this:


	NSURL *url = [NSURL URLWithString:@http://www.server.com/ 
data.plist];

NSArray *myArray = [NSArray arrayWithContentsOfURL:url];

which has been working just fine so far.

But now I'm reading through the URL Loading System docs, and  
wondering if I should be using all the NSURLRequest stuff instead.  
It's more complicated, so are there any advantages it would have  
over what I'm doing now?


if it's working well for you, why make things more complicated than  
necessary.  ;-)


NSURLRequest allows you to set and or get extra detail out of a URL,  
but for stuff like loading an array with a simple URL on a remote  
server, what you're doing should suffice.


Just make sure myArray isn't null before you do any stuff on it.


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Re: NSURLRequest

2009-10-10 Thread Ricky Sharp



On Oct 10, 2009, at 9:36 AM, DKJ wrote:

I've got an NSArray that I initialise with data from a plist stored  
on a remote webserver. I've been doing it like this:


	NSURL *url = [NSURL URLWithString:@http://www.server.com/ 
data.plist];

NSArray *myArray = [NSArray arrayWithContentsOfURL:url];

which has been working just fine so far.

But now I'm reading through the URL Loading System docs, and  
wondering if I should be using all the NSURLRequest stuff instead.  
It's more complicated, so are there any advantages it would have  
over what I'm doing now?



arrayWithContentsOfURL: is a blocking call.  Typically, when working  
with data over networks, it's best to do things asynchronously.


When going the async route, you're going to get much better error- 
handling too.  The call you're currently using will simply return nil  
upon any error.  You then wouldn't know if the URL is bad, timeout  
occurred, file is bad, etc.


___
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Instant Interactive(tm)   http://www.instantinteractive.com



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Re: real verses Virtual memory

2009-10-10 Thread Michael Dautermann



On Oct 10, 2009, at 7:37 AM, jon wrote:


I have an app that run's a process every 20 seconds during the day...

is there a way to force it to use real memory rather than virtual?

because it runs every 20 seconds,  and is defaulting to normal  
memory allocation,


it has a lot of disk swapping in and out,  many many times during  
the day,  and it seems like this
would negatively effect the life of a disk and performance of the  
whole machine?


This is a potentially broad topic, and the correct answer probably  
ultimately depends on how you decide to redo that process.


Is it polling for something (e.g. existence of a file or some state  
change?).  Polling is something you really ought to try to avoid.   
Maybe some kind of notification would work better.


Could you change that process to just reuse it's memory (instead of  
allocating and releasing space) between each run?  If it's hitting  
disk each time it's run, are you unnecessarily allocating a lot of  
memory?


You'd probably get a much more thorough  better answer from the list  
if you elaborated on what the ultimate goal of that repeating process  
is.



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Re: real verses Virtual memory

it loads a website,  to see if there are changes to the website,  it  
then does a lot of work,   the large memory things,  like the  
webView  are just one instance, and are not deallocating... (uses  
just that one instance over and over again,  not making new ones)   so  
that i don't think is the problem...  (or maybe even if the instance  
is allocated just once,  does reloading a webView do any thing that  
makes it write to memory?)


and then all the little stuff  of allocating for a small variable, is  
adding up each time,   i really don't want to make every variable  
global...  but if that is proper technique,  then i'll do that...


are we saying there is no way to make a process use real memory?
Jon.

On Oct 10, 2009, at 9:04 AM, Michael Dautermann wrote:

You'd probably get a much more thorough  better answer from the  
list if you elaborated on what the ultimate goal of that repeating  
process is.


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Re: real verses Virtual memory

2009-10-10 Thread Jean-Daniel Dupas



Le 10 oct. 2009 à 17:24, jon a écrit :

it loads a website,  to see if there are changes to the website,  it  
then does a lot of work,   the large memory things,  like the  
webView  are just one instance, and are not deallocating... (uses  
just that one instance over and over again,  not making new ones)
so that i don't think is the problem...  (or maybe even if the  
instance is allocated just once,  does reloading a webView do any  
thing that makes it write to memory?)


and then all the little stuff  of allocating for a small variable,  
is adding up each time,   i really don't want to make every variable  
global...  but if that is proper technique,  then i'll do that...


are we saying there is no way to make a process use real memory?
Jon.



What is real memory ? Do you want to address the RAM directly without  
any virtual to physical mapping ?



-- Jean-Daniel




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Re: real verses Virtual memory

exactly,   I look at Activity monitor,  disk Activity   and i can  
see a spike of disk data read/writes every 20 seconds.

Jon.

On Oct 10, 2009, at 9:31 AM, Jean-Daniel Dupas wrote:

What is real memory ? Do you want to address the RAM directly  
without any virtual to physical mapping ?


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Re: releasing an object

2009-10-10 Thread Nick Rogers


Hi, Thanks for the reply.

In AppController.h I have an ivar:
Volume *selectedPTVolume;

In a method in AppController, I have the following:
NSMutableDictionary *data = [partitionListDictArray objectAtIndex: 
[tableViewPTList selectedRow]];

selectedPTVolume = [[Volume alloc] initWithDictionary:data];
[selectedPTVolume retain];// if I comment this the GUI hangs,  
selectedPTVolume contains an ivar HDIR *dirRoot; which is passed as  
the root item of an outline view. dirRoot has an mutable array, which  
contains other HDIR objects as its children and so on a tree is formed.


In a method, where I need to release selectedPTVolume, I have:
if (selectedPTVolume)
{
	volumeScanType = [selectedPTVolume volumeScanType];//  
selectedPTVolume retainCount = 2 here

[selectedPTVolume release];
[selectedPTVolume release];// selectedPTVolume retainCount = 1 here
	selectedPTVolume = nil;// selectedPTVolume retainCount = 0 here and  
sometimes still shows as 1 while debugging.

if (outlineViewData)
[outlineViewData reloadData];/ crashes here
}

Releasing selectedPTVolume also releases HDIR *dirRoot.

Wishes,
Nick


On 10-Oct-2009, at 4:06 PM, Graham Cox wrote:



On 10/10/2009, at 9:31 PM, Nick Rogers wrote:


Shall I get its retainCount and then release it that many times?



For heavens' sake, NO!

Ignore retain counts. They are not reliable evidence of anything you  
can use. Instead, just follow the rules:


http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/MemoryMgmt/Articles/mmRules.html


I'm doing alloc and initWithDictionary to get an instance of Volume.
I have to do [selectedPTVolume retain]; when allocing to get it to  
work properly.


Show your code. This sounds wrong, but without seeing the code it  
can't really be inferred from the description.





--Graham




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Re: real verses Virtual memory

2009-10-10 Thread Michael Dautermann



On Oct 10, 2009, at 8:24 AM, jon wrote:

it loads a website,  to see if there are changes to the website,  it  
then does a lot of work,   the large memory things,  like the  
webView  are just one instance, and are not deallocating... (uses  
just that one instance over and over again,  not making new ones)
so that i don't think is the problem...  (or maybe even if the  
instance is allocated just once,  does reloading a webView do any  
thing that makes it write to memory?)


and then all the little stuff  of allocating for a small variable,  
is adding up each time,   i really don't want to make every variable  
global...  but if that is proper technique,  then i'll do that...


are we saying there is no way to make a process use real memory?


I don't know the answer to that last question off the top of my head.   
It sounds like you're using a repeatedly polling process with a  
potentially large footprint.  No wonder you're seeing the disk  
thrashing you are.


Is this a website that you have control over?  Where if anything  
changes, you could have a notification sent to the application to do  
the work it needs to do (so you could avoid all that crazy polling  
that you're doing)?


Could you lengthen the time between polls safely?  30 minutes between  
polls might be nicer on a machine than 20 seconds and you'd still  
catch your content updates.


Does the remote site have lots of resources that you have to check  
(i.e. dynamic layout, constantly changing images, etc.), or are the  
files/filenames mostly static, with periodic content updates?  If it's  
the latter, then why download the files?  I believe there are ways to  
retrieve  examine just the HTTP headers of the files (to check the  
content size, date/time last updated, etc.) to get an idea if the file  
has been changed.


Other people are likely to have even better ideas than me...

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Re: Updating application info plist

2009-10-10 Thread Andreas Mayer



Am 10.10.2009 um 01:05 Uhr schrieb Rob Keniger:

To do this, surely they must be rewriting the LSUIElement key in the  
app's own Info.plist while the app is running, right? Or is there  
another way to do this?


I did this once, because there was no other way to switch between  
UIElement and normal application mode.
Obviously this was only possible if the user had write access to the  
application bundle.


Fortunately since 10.5 there's now an working API. See Kyle's comment  
and this page:


http://www.cocoadev.com/index.pl?TransformProcessType


Andreas
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Re: real verses Virtual memory

On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 8:34 AM, jon trambl...@mac.com wrote:

is there a way to force it to use real memory rather than virtual?


This is, as stated, nonsensical. Your process works in its own independent
virtual memory space that is mapped to physical RAM as needed by the virtual
memory system. That is how it is for processes. If physical memory becomes
heavily utilized (what the OS always attempts to do, unused physical RAM is
wasted RAM) then you could incur swapping if no non-dirty pages exist but it
isn't clear that is what you are seeing based on the information you posted
and the terminology you have been using.

exactly,   I look at Activity monitor,  disk Activity   and i can see a
 spike of disk data read/writes every 20 seconds.


Use something like fs_usage or Instruments to understand what files, etc.
you process is using to understand what the IO is possibly related to. If
you are using WebKit, etc. I bet the disk IO you are seeing is related to
the the caching WebKit, NSURLRequest, etc. can do under ~/Library/Caches.
You can turn off aspects of this if you don't want any on disk caching of
fetched pages, etc. to take place.

If you have code doing IO to files of your own and it is highly unlikely you
aren't going to be access those files again for a long while then you
could also look at marking your access to those files as not needing file
caching.

It is very hard to assist you with the limited information about how your
process works, what it does, what API it uses to do things, etc. ...and
exactly what problem you perceive to exist.

Anyway you seem to be confused on how memory is managed in an application
given some of your statements. You may want to find some online resources on
modern virtual memory systems and theory.

-Shawn
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Re: using QLPreviewPanel and supporting 10.5

2009-10-10 Thread Kyle Sluder

On Oct 10, 2009, at 5:40 AM, Mitchell Livingston livings...@mac.com  
wrote:



How would that work with storing the instance variables?


1) Why are you concerned with QLPreviewPanel's instance variables?

2) The API is different between 10.5 and 10.6; you can't just drop in  
NSClassFromString and continue on as normal.


--Kyle Sluder
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Re: releasing an object

2009-10-10 Thread Andreas Mayer



Am 10.10.2009 um 17:43 Uhr schrieb Nick Rogers:


selectedPTVolume = [[Volume alloc] initWithDictionary:data];
[selectedPTVolume retain];


Read the memory management rules again. By calling alloc the retain  
count of the created object is one. There is no need to send it an  
additional retain message.



if I comment this the GUI hangs,


Then you've got another problem somewhere else.



[selectedPTVolume release];
selectedPTVolume = nil;
if (outlineViewData)
[outlineViewData reloadData];/ crashes here



I guess it crashes because you just pulled the outline view's model  
data from under it's feet.


How is the outline view connected to the model?


Andreas
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Re: releasing an object

On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 8:43 AM, Nick Rogers roger...@mac.com wrote:

 Hi, Thanks for the reply.

 In AppController.h I have an ivar:
 Volume *selectedPTVolume;

 In a method in AppController, I have the following:
 NSMutableDictionary *data = [partitionListDictArray
 objectAtIndex:[tableViewPTList selectedRow]];


The above is an object this code doesn't own but has gain access to use.


 selectedPTVolume = [[Volume alloc] initWithDictionary:data];


The above is a new object that this code owns and hence has the
responsibility to relinquish ownership of before this code loses its
reference to the object. I presume that -[Volume initWithDictionary] is
coded to take ownership (retain) of data, if not it needs to. Then in
-[Volume dealloc] it needs to release ownership.


 [selectedPTVolume retain];// if I comment this the GUI hangs,
 selectedPTVolume contains an ivar HDIR *dirRoot; which is passed as the root
 item of an outline view. dirRoot has an mutable array, which contains other
 HDIR objects as its children and so on a tree is formed.


You already have ownership of the object pointed at by selectedPTVolume, no
need to retain it again (aka no need to claim ownership again).

I rewrote the following...

In a method, where I need to release selectedPTVolume, I have:
 if (selectedPTVolume)
 {
volumeScanType = [selectedPTVolume volumeScanType];//
 selectedPTVolume retainCount = 2 here

   [selectedPTVolume release];
[selectedPTVolume release];// selectedPTVolume retainCount = 1 here
selectedPTVolume = nil;// selectedPTVolume retainCount = 0 here and
 sometimes still shows as 1 while debugging.
if (outlineViewData)
[outlineViewData reloadData];/ crashes here
 }


...as with the likely possibility of removing the if (selectedPTVolume !=
nil) depending on what zero means for volumeScanType...

if (selectedPTVolume != nil)
{
volumeScanType = [selectedPTVolume volumeScanType];
[outlineViewData reloadData]
}

Anyway the amount of code you have posted leave to much out to understand
all that may be wrong with your memory management. Also you haven't posted
much information about the crash to help us understand the location of it.

Look up information on how to use NSZombie or if you are on Snow Leopard use
the Zombie feature of Instruments to track down memory management issues
like this.

-Shawn
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Re: releasing an object

Ooops meant...
if (selectedPTVolume != nil)
{
volumeScanType = [selectedPTVolume volumeScanType];
[selectedPTVolume release];
[outlineViewData reloadData]
}

On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Shawn Erickson shaw...@gmail.com wrote:

if (selectedPTVolume != nil)
 {
 volumeScanType = [selectedPTVolume volumeScanType];
 [outlineViewData reloadData]
 }

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Re: using QLPreviewPanel and supporting 10.5

2009-10-10 Thread Adam R. Maxwell


On Oct 10, 2009, at 9:18 AM, Kyle Sluder wrote:

 2) The API is different between 10.5 and 10.6; you can't just drop in 
 NSClassFromString and continue on as normal.

It works fine for me.  I believe this comment only applies if you were foolish 
enough to link against the private framework in 10.5 :).




smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
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Re: using QLPreviewPanel and supporting 10.5

2009-10-10 Thread Mitchell Livingston

 
On Saturday, October 10, 2009, at 12:18PM, Kyle Sluder 
kyle.slu...@gmail.com wrote:
On Oct 10, 2009, at 5:40 AM, Mitchell Livingston livings...@mac.com  
wrote:

 How would that work with storing the instance variables?

1) Why are you concerned with QLPreviewPanel's instance variables?


It won't run on 10.5 with this variable, and NSClassFromString won't work for 
that. I am storing a variable as done in Apple's example program 
QuickLookDownloader.

2) The API is different between 10.5 and 10.6; you can't just drop in  
NSClassFromString and continue on as normal.


I do not want to use quick look on 10.5, only 10.6.

--Kyle Sluder


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Re: real verses Virtual memory

no,  no control over the website,   but on webView i turned off all  
the java script and flash and stuff,  so that helps with the speed,   
not with it using virtual memory every 20 seconds,  and it does need  
to be 20 seconds.

Jon.

On Oct 10, 2009, at 9:44 AM, Michael Dautermann wrote:

Is this a website that you have control over?  Where if anything  
changes


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Re: real verses Virtual memory

2009-10-10 Thread Chris Ridd



On 10 Oct 2009, at 17:44, jon wrote:

no,  no control over the website,   but on webView i turned off all  
the java script and flash and stuff,  so that helps with the speed,   
not with it using virtual memory every 20 seconds,  and it does need  
to be 20 seconds.


So if you change your process to sleep 20 seconds and then repeat -  
instead of exiting and getting restarted - how does that change the  
disk activity?


Cheers,

Chris

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Re: real verses Virtual memory

Ok, let me re-word it then,  is there a way i can keep a process from  
using Disk writes as a form of it's own memory use?   I already  
know that it is a memory thing  since the program never uses the  
disk to write out any files. (during the process)...  nor use the disk  
in any other way,  except for the memory being virtual.


there are no files being accessed,  only the webView  that is it's  
source of data  it's only source.  it works on that data,
finishes,   and does nothing for 20 more seconds.   (a trigger can  
happen,  but even if there was no trigger,   the disk writes are there)


Jon.

On Oct 10, 2009, at 10:08 AM, Shawn Erickson wrote:


This is, as stated, nonsensical.


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Re: releasing an object

2009-10-10 Thread Sherm Pendley

On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Shawn Erickson shaw...@gmail.com wrote:

 Anyway the amount of code you have posted leave to much out to understand
 all that may be wrong with your memory management.

The code does show one common anti-pattern - calls to -retain and
-release that should be hidden in an accessor method.

Each instance variable that refers to an object should have a
setVariable: setter method that properly releases the old value and
retains the new value. Encapsulating the memory-management code makes
it far easier to debug - scattering it throughout your code leads to
torn hair and madness.

It's also good OOP; when you find yourself repeating some code around
access to an instance variable, it's often a good idea to factor the
repetitious code into accessor methods. That makes the repeated code
easier to manage, and leaves less clutter in the calling code.

sherm--

-- 
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
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Re: using QLPreviewPanel and supporting 10.5

2009-10-10 Thread Adam R. Maxwell


On Oct 10, 2009, at 9:31 AM, Adam R. Maxwell wrote:

 
 On Oct 10, 2009, at 9:18 AM, Kyle Sluder wrote:
 
 2) The API is different between 10.5 and 10.6; you can't just drop in 
 NSClassFromString and continue on as normal.
 
 It works fine for me.  I believe this comment only applies if you were 
 foolish enough to link against the private framework in 10.5 :).

Ugh...I'm wrong.  NSClassFromString does return a class on 10.5, even though I 
don't load the private QL UI framework.  How unfortunate.




smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
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Re: real verses Virtual memory

2009-10-10 Thread Sherm Pendley

On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 12:53 PM, jon trambl...@mac.com wrote:

 there are no files being accessed,  only the webView

WebView can access files on its own. Have you disabled cacheing?

sherm--

-- 
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
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Re: Removing an Object with A Certain Title from an NSTreeController.

2009-10-10 Thread Quincey Morris


On Oct 10, 2009, at 05:28, Joshua Garnham wrote:

   NSPredicate *predicate = [NSPredicate  
predicateWithFormat:@title IN %d, oldTasks];


%d? oldTasks is a NSArray.


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Re: real verses Virtual memory

2009-10-10 Thread Jean-Daniel Dupas



Le 10 oct. 2009 à 18:53, jon a écrit :

Ok, let me re-word it then,  is there a way i can keep a process  
from using Disk writes as a form of it's own memory use?   I  
already know that it is a memory thing  since the program never  
uses the disk to write out any files. (during the process)...  nor  
use the disk in any other way,  except for the memory being virtual.


You don't know, you assume, and everybody here know that assumptions  
are evil.
Instead of basing your work on false assumptions, use the proper tools  
to determine what is the issue, as Shawn suggest.




there are no files being accessed,  only the webView  that is  
it's source of data  it's only source.  it works on that data,
finishes,   and does nothing for 20 more seconds.   (a trigger can  
happen,  but even if there was no trigger,   the disk writes are  
there)


Jon.

On Oct 10, 2009, at 10:08 AM, Shawn Erickson wrote:


This is, as stated, nonsensical.





-- Jean-Daniel




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Re: real verses Virtual memory

2009-10-10 Thread Bill Bumgarner



On Oct 10, 2009, at 9:53 AM, jon wrote:

Ok, let me re-word it then,  is there a way i can keep a process  
from using Disk writes as a form of it's own memory use?   I  
already know that it is a memory thing  since the program never  
uses the disk to write out any files. (during the process)...  nor  
use the disk in any other way,  except for the memory being virtual.


there are no files being accessed,  only the webView  that is  
it's source of data  it's only source. it works on that data,
finishes,   and does nothing for 20 more seconds.   (a trigger can  
happen,  but even if there was no trigger,   the disk writes are  
there)


If there are reads and writes being caused by such a process, it could  
be because of several reasons:


1) as the app is launched, the executables (app and frameworks) and  
data files will be read from the filesystem (but not necessarily off  
disk)


2) if there is a persistent cache -- a web cache, perhaps? -- it may  
be updated, causing I/O


3a) if the system is under memory pressure, allocations may cause  
other applications to page out memory


3b) if memory pressure  there are other active applications, your app  
may page out / in memory


4) your code may be indirectly triggering other disk I/O events via  
the APIs it calls


(1) is normal and there isn't anything you can do about it (other than  
not relaunch your app all the time -- maybe a daemon instead?).   
However, on a system that isn't under memory pressure, all of the  
executable gunk will be in cache -- in memory -- after the first  
launch and subsequent launches won't hit the disk.


(2) is, again, normal and the default behavior.  Depending on your  
needs, you might want to turn off the caches used by the URL loading  
subsystem.   And, if possible, use a HEAD request to determine if the  
remote content has changed before pulling it all down with a GET or  
POST.


(3a/b) Not much you can do here beyond minimizing your app's memory use.

(4) Use Instrument's file I/O instruments to determine what is  
triggering I/O.  Then figure out if you can eliminate it.


In other words: No, there isn't a way for your app to use real  
memory.  Or, to rephrase, there isn't a way -- at least, not a polite  
way -- to guarantee that your app is going to have a certain amount of  
physical RAM allocated to it.  Since there is no way for your app to  
know what demands may be made by other applications, there is no way  
for you to reserve memory resources without potentially grossly  
negatively impacting the performance of some other application.   The  
system goes to great lengths to dole out resources efficiently and it  
is best to let it do its job as best it can.


b.bum
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Re: Binding to currently selected object in a list?

2009-10-10 Thread A B

 Ken,
Thank you for the well-expressed response.  I understand both options as you've 
explained them and will try them both to see which ones I end up having a 
better feel for.  I may have to go for the second example as I think that it 
will get executed in a more deterministic order earlier - which is something 
that I will need to be reasonably assured of as the 'selectedWidget' value is 
one that is used by other KVO-triggered actions and that therefore lack of 
guaranteed order of setting can end up causing me problems.

On Friday, October 09, 2009, at 11:57PM, Ken Thomases k...@codeweavers.com 
wrote:
On Oct 9, 2009, at 5:08 PM, A B wrote:

 Is there a way to bind an ivar to the currently selected object of a  
 list which is being represented in an NSTableView via bindings?   
 Unfortunately there does not seem to be a selectedObject key  
 (though there is one for selectedObjects).  Binding to the  
 controller's selection doesn't really work as I'd expect and even  
 if it did, I'd only be getting back a proxy object - which negates  
 the purpose for which I want to use it, which is to call methods on  
 the object.  I had put in a hack which observes changes in  
 selection, gets the selectedObjects list, checks for a count  0,  
 grabs the first and stuffs it into the ivar, etc. but not only does  
 that feel really hackish, but doesn't always work.

 This would seem to be a pretty simple thing to want to do (i.e.  
 present a list of objects, do things to/with the currently selected  
 object) but I'm at somewhat of a loss to understand what I'm doing  
 wrong.

There's something just like this for NSPopUpButton.  You bind its  
'content' (and possibly 'contentObjects') binding to an indexed  
collection property of the controller.  Then you bind its  
'selectedObject' binding to a to-one property of the controller.  When  
the pop-up is first set up, it displays the selected object as  
originally set on the controller's to-one property.  Then, as the user  
selects items from the pop-up, the newly selected object is passed to  
the setter for that to-one property.

Strangely, there's nothing quite like that for NSArrayController.

I think the best you can do is to bind the array controller's  
selectionIndexes binding to an attribute of your coordinating  
controller.  (For illustration purposes, I'll call this attribute  
property selectedWidgetIndexes.)  Then that coordinating controller  
can have a selectedWidget to-one property which is set up to reflect  
the object which is selected in the array controller.

One way is to make the selectedWidget property computed-on-the-fly  
based on the selection indexes:

+(NSSet*)keyPathsForValuesAffectingSelectedWidget
{
   return [NSSet setWithObject:@selectedWidgetIndexes];
}

-(Widget*)selectedWidget
{
   if (![self.selectedWidgetIndexes count])
   return nil;
   return [self.widgets objectAtIndex:[self.selectedWidgetIndexes  
firstIndex]];
}

In this scenario, you don't actually have an ivar backing the  
selectedWidget property.  It's completely based off of the  
selectedWidgetIndexes property and the widgets to-many property.   
(The widgets property is assumed to be the indexed collection property  
that the array controller is representing.  The selectedWidgetIndexes  
property can be a typical @synthesized copy property.)

Another approach is to implement the setter for selectedWidgetIndexes  
and use that to update the selectedWidget property directly.  In this  
case, selectedWidget isn't computed on the fly, but is actually held  
(cached) in an ivar:

-(void)setSelectedWidgetIndexes(NSIndexSet*)newSelectedWidgetIndexes
{
   if (![selectedWidgetIndexes isEqual:newSelectedWidgetIndexes])
   {
   [selectedWidgetIndexes release];
   selectedWidgetIndexes = [newSelectedWidgetIndexes copy];
   if ([selectedWidgetIndexes count])
   self.selectedWidget = [self.widgets objectAtIndex: 
[selectedWidgetIndexes firstIndex]];
   else
   self.selectedWidget = nil;
   }
}

You don't need +keyPathsForValuesAffectingSelectedWidget since you're  
going through the setter for the selectedWidget property.  The  
selectedWidget property can be a typical @synthesized retain property.

By the way, notice that all of this discussion is in terms of the  
array controller and the coordinating controller.  No mention of the  
table view because it's not directly relevant.  The MVC design pattern  
in action.  ;)

Regards,
Ken



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Re: Old-style (carbon?) blue generic view shows up under Logic

2009-10-10 Thread Stephen Blinkhorn


On 10 Oct 2009, at 01:14, tahome izwah wrote:


Yes, actually it does as of version 8.0.5


Hooray, where's the champagne! 
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Re: real verses Virtual memory

ok thanks, i was pretty sure it is normal behavior  i am only  
asking if there is away around that particular behavior, and your  
answer was what i figured might be the case...


so i am a little clearer,   it is normal for apps to use disk IO in  
the way we are describing,  even if there is no real memory pressure,   
correct?  (a form of it's virtualization?)


I am looking at cacheing right now to see if there could be anything  
better done in that area. in IB , i disabled everything for the  
webView  (java, java script, ect...)


the program is not relaunching every 20 secs,  it is reloading a  
webView every 20 secs.   and then doing a bunch of work on that  
data,   there is no real calls to anything API except of course the  
webView reload itself,  which i assume is what is causing normal  
memory use,  it definitely is causing a CPU use spike, and there is no  
user interface to update,  except again, for the webView object  
instance,  and it is hidden...there is   only number crunching  
after the webview load... including using memory to store  
variables...


i never thought there was anything wrong,   only maybe a way to keep  
the process from using disk swaps as it's source of memory.


Jon.


On Oct 10, 2009, at 11:03 AM, Bill Bumgarner wrote:

In other words: No, there isn't a way for your app to use real  
memory.  Or, to rephrase


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Re: real verses Virtual memory

2009-10-10 Thread Greg Guerin


jon write:
there are no files being accessed, only the webView that is  
it's source of data it's only source. it works on that data,  
finishes, and does nothing for 20 more seconds. (a trigger can  
happen, but even if there was no trigger, the disk writes are there)



Consider using something other than a WebView.  Maybe libcurl is more  
in line with what you're trying to accomplish.


http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/documentation/Darwin/Reference/ 
ManPages/man3/libcurl.3.html


  -- GG

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Re: real verses Virtual memory

I could use an explanation then,   if you go into activity monitor
you will see a heading of real memory  and virtual memory.   
specifically for all the current Processes..


what does Apple mean by real memory?in that,  I might see why  
you asked the question?and why you think that i am using it  
incorrectly for my particular process...  i can see Apple label my  
process as using real memory?  and virtual memory  what does apple  
mean?


Jon.

On Oct 10, 2009, at 9:31 AM, Jean-Daniel Dupas wrote:


What is real memory ?


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Re: real verses Virtual memory

Jon, please use Instruments.app (and/or various related tools; Activity
Monitor.app, Shark.app, sample, top, fs_usage, vm_stat, vmmap/vmmap64, etc.)
to understand what your process it doing both in terms of IO, memory
utilization/allocations and even CPU time. Using those tools you can
understand what your application is doing and make informed decisions on
what, if anything, you need to change/optimize.
You so far haven't listed any actual data about what is going on so we can
only speculate and you yourself appear to be making guesses and assumptions
on limited information/knowledge. Save yourself time (and us) by using the
available tools to analyze things.

-Shawn
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Re: real verses Virtual memory

oh yes,  i plan on optimization,  but this was not the original  
question,  not one of how should i optimize,  it was one of can i  
keep my process from using Disk I0,  as a means of it's memory  
use?.   to save on wear and tear of the disk for this particular  
process.


On Oct 10, 2009, at 11:49 AM, Shawn Erickson wrote:


Jon, please use Instruments.app


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Re: real verses Virtual memory

On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 10:55 AM, jon trambl...@mac.com wrote:

 oh yes,  i plan on optimization,  but this was not the original question,
  not one of how should i optimize,  it was one of can i keep my process
 from using Disk I0,  as a means of it's memory use?.   to save on wear and
 tear of the disk for this particular process.


Again it isn't clear if swapping is what is actually happing based on what
you have so far posted to this list. It may be clear to you but the
information provided and terminology you have used leaves me (and others)
wondering what it really taking place. Just trying to understand what is
going on so we can give you correct guidance.

-Shawn
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Re: real verses Virtual memory

On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 10:48 AM, jon trambl...@mac.com wrote:

 I could use an explanation then,   if you go into activity monitor   you
 will see a heading of real memory  and virtual memory.  specifically
 for all the current Processes..

 what does Apple mean by real memory?in that,  I might see why you
 asked the question?and why you think that i am using it incorrectly for
 my particular process...  i can see Apple label my process ashas bee using
 real memory?  and virtual memory  what does apple mean?


http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1342
http://support.apple.com/kb/TA20517

In a nutshell..

Real Memory is essentially how much physical RAM is currently being used by
the process. It doesn't count swapped out pages.

Virtual Memory is how much of the processes virtual memory space has been
consumed by allocations. Note just because an allocation was made in the
virtual memory space doesn't mean that any physical RAM or on disk swap has
been yet used. In fact pages related to the allocation may never be touched
by the process, hence never cause a page fault requiring the mapping of
physical/disk page.

-Shawn
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Re: real verses Virtual memory

Hi Bill,  in this theme of normal behavior,  maybe this would make  
what i'm asking more clear.


in an exercise of thought,  if you wrote an app,  and the only thing  
it did was  put up a window permanently (for the run of it's process  
life),  with a single webview in it,  and hardwired a load of any  
particular website you wished that had any substance to load in that  
webview...   and then put in a trigger to simply reload that same  
website every 20 seconds...   and that was it,  no number crunching,   
or extra processes, or UI.


if you had to guess,  if you looked in activity monitor,   do you  
think this thought experiment would use disk IO every 20 seconds?


thanks,
Jon.


On Oct 10, 2009, at 11:03 AM, Bill Bumgarner wrote:

2) if there is a persistent cache -- a web cache, perhaps? -- it may  
be updated, causing I/O


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Re: real verses Virtual memory

ok,  I have Activity monitor open,  particularly to the disk  
activity tab,  and the IO checked, as i said before,  and i can see   
Disk writes every 20 secs.is there a clearer way to demonstrate  
that Disk IO is happening?  am i fulling my self by looking at this  
tool?


Jon.

On Oct 10, 2009, at 12:07 PM, Shawn Erickson wrote:

Again it isn't clear if swapping is what is actually happing based  
on what you have so far posted to this list.


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Re: Old-style (carbon?) blue generic view shows up under Logic

2009-10-10 Thread Stephen Blinkhorn



On 10 Oct 2009, at 11:20, Stephen Blinkhorn wrote:


On 10 Oct 2009, at 01:14, tahome izwah wrote:


Yes, actually it does as of version 8.0.5


Hooray, where's the champagne!


sorry, wrong list.
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Re: real verses Virtual memory

2009-10-10 Thread Alex Kac

If it was using a web cache, then yes. A webview uses webkit. Which  
uses URL caches and web caches. There are many things going on here.  
Way more than just one little view. It could simply be checking for  
the data in a cache, for example. You don't know because its not your  
code. I just don't think you can do what you're asking.


On Oct 10, 2009, at 1:08 PM, jon wrote:

Hi Bill,  in this theme of normal behavior,  maybe this would make  
what i'm asking more clear.


in an exercise of thought,  if you wrote an app,  and the only thing  
it did was  put up a window permanently (for the run of it's process  
life),  with a single webview in it,  and hardwired a load of any  
particular website you wished that had any substance to load in that  
webview...   and then put in a trigger to simply reload that same  
website every 20 seconds...   and that was it,  no number  
crunching,  or extra processes, or UI.


if you had to guess,  if you looked in activity monitor,   do you  
think this thought experiment would use disk IO every 20 seconds?


thanks,
Jon.


On Oct 10, 2009, at 11:03 AM, Bill Bumgarner wrote:

2) if there is a persistent cache -- a web cache, perhaps? -- it  
may be updated, causing I/O


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Alex Kac - President and Founder
Web Information Solutions, Inc.
To educate a person in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace  
to society.

-- Theodore Roosevelt






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Re: real verses Virtual memory

2009-10-10 Thread Jean-Daniel Dupas

No, Activity Monitor as not a developer tool. As I said (and other  
too), uses proper tools. Instrument, may be a good starting point.


Le 10 oct. 2009 à 20:12, jon a écrit :

ok,  I have Activity monitor open,  particularly to the disk  
activity tab,  and the IO checked, as i said before,  and i can  
see  Disk writes every 20 secs.is there a clearer way to  
demonstrate that Disk IO is happening?  am i fulling my self by  
looking at this tool?


Jon.

On Oct 10, 2009, at 12:07 PM, Shawn Erickson wrote:

Again it isn't clear if swapping is what is actually happing based  
on what you have so far posted to this list.


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-- Jean-Daniel




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Re: real verses Virtual memory


ahh,  ok  thanks,  that helps a lot.
Jon.

On Oct 10, 2009, at 12:30 PM, Alex Kac wrote:


If it was using a web cache, then yes.


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Re: real verses Virtual memory

On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 11:08 AM, jon trambl...@mac.com wrote:

 Hi Bill,  in this theme of normal behavior,  maybe this would make what i'm
 asking more clear.

 in an exercise of thought,  if you wrote an app,  and the only thing it did
 was  put up a window permanently (for the run of it's process life),  with a
 single webview in it,  and hardwired a load of any particular website you
 wished that had any substance to load in that webview...   and then put in a
 trigger to simply reload that same website every 20 seconds...   and that
 was it,  no number crunching,  or extra processes, or UI.

 if you had to guess,  if you looked in activity monitor,   do you think
 this thought experiment would use disk IO every 20 seconds?


I built a simple application with a single window, a WebView, a text field
for URL, and a button to trigger a reload... all defined in the main xib. No
other code written. I turned off support for plugins, java and javascript
for the fun of it. Then I monitored that application and found the following
every time I loaded a page.

MacPro:~ shawnce$ sudo fs_usage -w -f filesys 26906 | tee fstrace.txt
11:24:03.163  open  F=7(R_)
 /Users/shawnce/Library/Cookies/Cookies.plist
 0.71   MyBasicWebView
11:24:03.163  fstat F=7
 0.05
MyBasicWebView
11:24:03.165  read  F=7B=0xe55d1
0.000544
MyBasicWebView
11:24:03.165  close F=7
 0.16
MyBasicWebView
11:24:03.272  ioctl F=7   CMD=0x8004667e
0.03
MyBasicWebView
11:24:03.272  ioctl F=10  CMD=0xc0206911
0.04
MyBasicWebView
11:24:03.272  fcntl F=7   GETFL
 0.03
MyBasicWebView
11:24:03.322  ioctl F=10  CMD=0xc0206911
0.05
MyBasicWebView
11:24:03.322  ioctl F=10  CMD=0xc0206911
0.02
MyBasicWebView
11:24:03.322  ioctl F=10  CMD=0xc0206911
0.02
MyBasicWebView
11:24:03.322  ioctl F=10  CMD=0xc0206911
0.02
MyBasicWebView
11:24:03.322  ioctl F=10  CMD=0xc0206911
0.02
MyBasicWebView
11:24:03.645  fcntl F=3   SETLK
 0.07
MyBasicWebView
11:24:03.645  fcntl F=3   SETLK
 0.02
MyBasicWebView
11:24:03.645  fcntl F=3   SETLK
 0.03
MyBasicWebView
11:24:03.645  access [  2] (___F)
 /Users/shawnce/Library/Caches/com.yourcompany.MyBasicWebView/Cache.db-journal
  0.82   MyBasicWebView
long list of stuff snipped...

If I watch this application using the File Activity template of Instruments
I get a lot of nice information. For example I can see the stack track
related to a disk write among many other things.

  13 CFNetwork CFURLCacheWorkerThread(void*)
  12 CoreFoundation CFRunLoopRunInMode
  11 CoreFoundation CFRunLoopRunSpecific
  10 CFNetwork CFURLCacheTimerCallback(__CFRunLoopTimer*, void*)
   9 CFNetwork ProcessCacheTasks(__CFURLCache*)
   8 CFNetwork __CFURLCache::ExecuteSQLInsert(_CFCachedURLResponse const*,
__CFString const*, _CFURLRequest const*)
   7 CFNetwork __CFURLCache::StepSQLStatementToCompletion(sqlite3_stmt*,
long)
   6 libsqlite3.0.dylib sqlite3_step
   5 libsqlite3.0.dylib sqlite3Step
   4 libsqlite3.0.dylib sqlite3VdbeExec
   3 libsqlite3.0.dylib sqlite3BtreeInsert
   2 libsqlite3.0.dylib sqlite3PagerWrite
   1 libsqlite3.0.dylib pager_write
   0 libSystem.B.dylib pwrite$UNIX2003

Which is exactly what I expected (and others) given the fact that by default
the URL loading sub-system used on Mac OS X will attempt to cache remote
resources. This is all done in support of the standard HTTP resource caching
scheme.

For example review...


http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/URLLoadingSystem/Concepts/CachePolicies.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/20001843-BAJEAIEE



http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/documentation/Cocoa/Reference/WebKit/Classes/WebPreferences_Class/Reference/Reference.html#//apple_ref/occ/instm/WebPreferences/setCacheModel
:

-Shawn
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Re: real verses Virtual memory

thanks for doing that,   it helped,  cacheing hmmm...   i don't think  
there is away around this,   i need a fresh load to see if the data  
has changed each time at the website.It appears that disk IO is  
here to stay.


Jon.



On Oct 10, 2009, at 12:57 PM, Shawn Erickson wrote:

Which is exactly what I expected (and others) given the fact that by  
default the URL loading sub-system used on Mac OS X will attempt to  
cache remote resources.


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Re: real verses Virtual memory

oh wait,  that means i can turn off cacheing,   I at least can see if  
that will help,   I'll go read up on how to turn off cacheing..

Jon.

On Oct 10, 2009, at 12:57 PM, Shawn Erickson wrote:

Which is exactly what I expected (and others) given the fact that by  
default the URL loading sub-system used on Mac OS X will attempt to  
cache remote resources.


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Re: real verses Virtual memory

On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 12:04 PM, jon trambl...@mac.com wrote:

 thanks for doing that,   it helped,  cacheing hmmm...   i don't think there
 is away around this,   i need a fresh load to see if the data has changed
 each time at the website.It appears that disk IO is here to stay.


Stepping back from this issue... What is this process trying to do? (not how
it is currently doing it but why does it need to load a page? what does it
do with that loaded page? etc.)

Basically using something like a WebView may be a little to high-level of a
object/tool to use for what you really need to do.

-Shawn
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Re: real verses Virtual memory

I take the info off the website,  data if you like...   data that  
changes or could change at any given time,  every second even
and process it,  and trigger an event if the data is to my liking.


how would i get the data off a website,   formated in the only way i  
know it?  which is how it is displayed on the website,  html  
formated,  (i don't control the website).   is there a better process?


Jon.


On Oct 10, 2009, at 1:06 PM, Shawn Erickson wrote:

 (not how it is currently doing it but why does it need to load a  
page? what does it do with that loaded page?


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Re: real verses Virtual memory

On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 12:12 PM, jon trambl...@mac.com wrote:

I take the info off the website, data if you like... data that changes
or could change at any given time, every second even and process it,
and trigger an event if the data is to my liking.

how would i get the data off a website, formated in the only way i know
it? which is how it is displayed on the website, html formated, (i don't
control the website). is there a better process?

WebView is primarily about displaying a webpage. It sounds like you aren't
using it for that. So likely no need to pay for the extra overhead, etc.

It sounds like you need to get at the HTTP content itself and pull data out
of that, right? If all you need is the HTTP content you can drop down to
things like Foundation's URL Loading System [1], maybe drop down lower to
CFNetwork [2], or use something like libcurl (as Greg suggested, possibly
the better suggestion depending on your exact needs).

Also make sure to understand the standard HTTP caching so you can avoid
unneeded data loads (note Mac OS X provided HTTP API honor this scheme, so
you likely don't have to do any work of your own).

http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec13.html

-Shawn

[1]
http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/URLLoadingSystem/URLLoadingSystem.html

[2]
http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/samplecode/CFNetworkHTTPDownload/index.html

[3]
http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/documentation/Darwin/Reference/ManPages/man3/libcurl.3.html

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Re: real verses Virtual memory

I meant to ask if you are accessing the HTTP or using WebKit's DOM API to
get at the pages content? Basically how are using using WebView to access
the data you need.
-Shawn

On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 12:25 PM, Shawn Erickson shaw...@gmail.com wrote:

On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 12:12 PM, jon trambl...@mac.com wrote:

I take the info off the website, data if you like... data that
changes or could change at any given time, every second even and
process it, and trigger an event if the data is to my liking.

how would i get the data off a website, formated in the only way i know
it? which is how it is displayed on the website, html formated, (i don't
control the website). is there a better process?

WebView is primarily about displaying a webpage. It sounds like you aren't
using it for that. So likely no need to pay for the extra overhead, etc.

Also make sure to understand the standard HTTP caching so you can avoid
unneeded data loads (note Mac OS X provided HTTP API honor this scheme, so
you likely don't have to do any work of your own).

http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec13.html

-Shawn

[1]
http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/URLLoadingSystem/URLLoadingSystem.html

[2]
http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/samplecode/CFNetworkHTTPDownload/index.html

[3]
http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/documentation/Darwin/Reference/ManPages/man3/libcurl.3.html

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Re: real verses Virtual memory


A couple of points…

[1] Yes, it is possible to allocate wired memory that is forced to  
stay in physical RAM and never be paged to disk. But this ability is  
pretty much used only by low-level software like kernel extensions,  
device drivers, and real-time audio processors. These are things that  
either interact with memory below the level of the VM system, or that  
will fail if a memory access has to wait for disk I/O.


It's generally pretty bad for other software to use wired memory,  
because it makes that RAM unavailable for any other process on the  
system. In effect, it is slowing down every other process, to benefit  
itself. You really don't want to do this. The OS kernel is very highly  
tuned to balance the needs of all running processes.


[2] File-system activity is not the same thing as disk I/O. There is a  
lot of caching going on (in fact caching and virtual memory are just  
two aspects of the same subsystem). Multiple reads of the same file  
are not going to hit the disk at all because the file should still be  
in cache. Writes will hit the disk, but often not immediately.


[3] Unless the OS is really low on available RAM, or you're allocating  
huge amounts of memory, your app is not going to cause VM paging. In  
fact, if your app does stuff every 20 seconds, it's not going to get  
paged out to disk. Instead, other processes will be paged out to make  
room, if necessary. The kernel tries to keep the most recently used  
memory in RAM.


[4] The disk I/O you're seeing is almost certainly due to CFNetwork's  
caching and cookie mechanisms. You probably don't want to turn off  
cookies if the site you're accessing uses any type of login or  
persistent state. In any case, the cookies are mostly just going to be  
read from disk, not incurring I/O. Turning off caching will increase  
the amount of network activity and server-side time, because the  
server will have to send the full page to you every time even if it  
hasn't changed. I don't recommend that. Many large websites will ban  
your IP address if they find you repetitively fetching pages like this.


[5] You haven't described any functionality that requires using a  
WebView. All you need, I think, is NSURLConnection to fetch the  
contents of the page. If you need to parse the HTML, you can use  
NSXMLDocument for that — it supports a query format called XPath that  
makes it very easy to find specific data in an HTML page.


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Re: Document architecture - stop it from opening untitled documents?

2009-10-10 Thread aaron smith

Thanks Ken.

On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 12:05 AM, Ken Thomases k...@codeweavers.com wrote:
 On Oct 9, 2009, at 8:57 PM, aaron smith wrote:

 On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 6:52 PM, aaron smith
 beingthexemplaryli...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hey All, quick question.

 I'm trying to figure out how to stop untitled documents from opening
 when the application first runs. I've been looking on google, and
 tried some different combinations of method overrides on
 NSDocumentController. I figured out how to stop the untitled doc from
 opening, by overriding - (id)makeUntitledDocumentOfType:(NSString
 *)typeName error:(NSError **)outError, but the problem is that it's
 required to give it an NSError, which is fine. But the the application
 automatically opens up an alert error.

 if anyone has a quick pointer in the right direction that would be
 awesome.

 Thanks.


 ok. nevermind. I got it.

 You have to implement a method from NSApplicationDelegate:

 - (BOOL) applicationOpenUntitledFile:(NSApplication *) theApplication {
        return true;
 }

 Better to implement:

 - (BOOL)applicationShouldOpenUntitledFile:(NSApplication *)sender
 {
        return FALSE;
 }

 That expresses that the application shouldn't open an untitled document,
 rather than it thinking it should and you faking success.

 Cheers,
 Ken


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Re: real verses Virtual memory

2009-10-10 Thread Thomas Wetmore


Please take this off list.

Thanks,

Tom Wetmore

On Oct 10, 2009, at 3:28 PM, Shawn Erickson wrote:

I meant to ask if you are accessing the HTTP or using WebKit's DOM  
API to
get at the pages content? Basically how are using using WebView to  
access

the data you need.
-Shawn

On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 12:25 PM, Shawn Erickson shaw...@gmail.com  
wrote:

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Re: real verses Virtual memory


ok,  i'll do research on these..
Jon.

On Oct 10, 2009, at 1:25 PM, Shawn Erickson wrote:

It sounds like you need to get at the HTTP content itself and pull  
data out of that, right? If all you need is the HTTP content you can  
drop down to things like Foundation's URL Loading System [1], maybe  
drop down lower to CFNetwork [2], or use something like libcurl (as  
Greg suggested, possibly the better suggestion depending on your  
exact needs).


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Re: real verses Virtual memory


using DOM,
Jon.

On Oct 10, 2009, at 1:28 PM, Shawn Erickson wrote:


using WebKit's DOM API to get at the pages content?


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Re: How to allocate and delegate; or how to keep GC and the static analyzer happy



On Oct 10, 2009, at 2:25 AM, Glen Low wrote:

Not necessarily. In a pathological but presumably legit case,  
whatever happens in initDelegate: might only form a weak reference  
to the Something object, thus the Something object would be subject  
to GC.


That's true, although unlikely. In that case you could create an  
instance variable of the owning object, to point to the Something  
object.


Or the thread etc. could somehow fail and never call  
finishWithSomething: (thus leaking the Something object).


I don't think you mean leak there; if the thread exits, the  
Something object would just be collected.
The Something method that runs on the thread should have an @try block  
around it, so that if anything goes wrong it can clean up (including  
calling back into your main object) before it finishes.


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Re: real verses Virtual memory

oh... that is good to know...   hmm,  well it looks like i need to go  
lower in the mechanism,  stuff i don't know anything about,  so i'll  
do research on the best way to get the info off the website at a lower  
level.

Jon.

On Oct 10, 2009, at 1:33 PM, Jens Alfke wrote:

 Many large websites will ban your IP address if they find you  
repetitively fetching pages like this.


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Re: How to ease the burden on the Garbage Collector?



On Oct 10, 2009, at 1:14 AM, Gabriel Zachmann wrote:


So, is 20% CPU time for the GC thread normal?


That's a lot more than I'd expect based on what you're doing. Either  
you've got code you haven't shown us that's allocating a ton of  
objects during the animation, or some system framework (CoreAnimation,  
presumably) is allocating a lot of collectable objects.


I've used CA in some GC'd apps and haven't seen noticeable collection  
activity, but maybe I haven't used the same APIs as you.


What you need, I think, is to find out how to use Instruments or Shark  
to track only the allocation of collectable objects. Then you can see  
where that's occurring. I don't know how to do that, myself, but I'm  
sure someone here does.


—Jens___

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Re: real verses Virtual memory



On Oct 10, 2009, at 12:35 PM, Thomas Wetmore wrote:


Please take this off list.


Why? This seems like a relevant discussion for cocoa-dev. Just because  
you're not interested in it doesn't make it off-topic.


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Re: real verses Virtual memory

wait,  if CFNetwork is doing the caching,   I would need to go lower  
to avoid it?   what would i use to get html or xml type of info off  
the website,  without giving the website pause for what i am doing?   
(or best guess on what a website might consider bad behavior)


Jon.


On Oct 10, 2009, at 1:33 PM, Jens Alfke wrote:

[4] The disk I/O you're seeing is almost certainly due to  
CFNetwork's caching and cookie mechanisms.


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Re: real verses Virtual memory

oh i see (too late for that last post of mine)  that you are  
recommending NSURLConnection...   I'll look into that...
You are right, i am probably not needing WebView,  i only am using it,  
because that is what i founddrives me crazy the  
documentation...   it is there,   but you have to know what to look  
for before you ever go down the correct tangent.


Jon.

On Oct 10, 2009, at 1:33 PM, Jens Alfke wrote:

[5] You haven't described any functionality that requires using a  
WebView. All you need, I think, is NSURLConnection to fetch


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capturing special keys when focused in an NSTextField

2009-10-10 Thread aaron smith

Quick question - I have a window that I run as a sheet, which contains
an NSTextField to enter a message. I have the window setup to close
the sheet when the Escape key is pressed, however, when the text field
is focused I can't figure out how to respond to these types of special
keys.

I've tried subclassing NSTexField and overriding keyDown:, but it
doesn't get called. And I've tried setting the text field's next
responder to be the controller object for the view, etc. No go.

Can someone point me in the right direction?

Thanks much.
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Re: real verses Virtual memory

2009-10-10 Thread Stephen J. Butler

On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 2:56 PM, jon trambl...@mac.com wrote:
 wait,  if CFNetwork is doing the caching,   I would need to go lower to
 avoid it?

If I load CNN.com right now, I fetch the HTML page, plus at least 127
image, CCS, and javascript files. So if you use something more low
level, like CFNetwork or NSURLConnection, then right away you've
reduced your cache access by 99.2% (by not fetching/checking all those
external resources).
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Re: real verses Virtual memory

2009-10-10 Thread I. Savant


On Oct 10, 2009, at 3:35 PM, Thomas Wetmore wrote:


Please take this off list.


  That's an awfully presumptuous demand, don't you think?

  It's a relevant and interesting Cocoa topic. I've been following it  
with interest and it's quite obvious others have as well.


--
I.S.


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Re: real verses Virtual memory



On Oct 10, 2009, at 12:41 PM, jon wrote:

oh... that is good to know...   hmm,  well it looks like i need to  
go lower in the mechanism,  stuff i don't know anything about,  so  
i'll do research on the best way to get the info off the website at  
a lower level.


RSS or Atom feeds are often used for this purpose. Does the site have  
feeds that you can check to find when things change? If so, look at  
the PubSub framework in 10.5+ which will automatically subscribe to  
and track feeds for you. It tries hard to be as efficient about it as  
possible. (Disclaimer: I wrote part of that framework so I'm biased :)


If you can't use a feed, use NSURLRequest to fetch the page. If you  
leave the caching settings alone, it should be pretty good about being  
lazy: it will send a conditional GET that allows the server to  
respond with a nothing's changed response (just a couple of bytes)  
if the page hasn't changed. You can check the Last-Modified and  
ETag headers in the NSHTTPURLResponse object and compare them to  
what you got last time; if they're the same, there's no need to parse  
the page.


—Jens___

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Re: real verses Virtual memory


that looks promising...
thanks,
Jon.

On Oct 10, 2009, at 3:26 PM, Jens Alfke wrote:

 You can check the Last-Modified and ETag headers in the  
NSHTTPURLResponse object and compare them to what you got last time;


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Re: real verses Virtual memory



On Oct 10, 2009, at 1:01 PM, jon wrote:

 drives me crazy the documentation...   it is there,   but you have  
to know what to look for before you ever go down the correct tangent.


There's certainly a lot of stuff, and it takes a while to learn what's  
in there. :/ The good part is that all these things make your job a  
lot easier.


Take a look at the Tree-Based XML Programming Guide For Cocoa.  
(Pretty much wherever they say XML there, it includes regular HTML.)


To fetch and parse the page, you just use
	[[NSXMLDocument alloc] initWithContentsOfURL: ... options: ... error:  
error];
There's an option flag to tidy the syntax before parsing; definitely  
include that flag, because most real-world HTML needs tidying to be  
parseable as XML.


Then see the subsection Querying An XML Document and read the stuff  
about XPath. (You can also work with the tree of DOM nodes directly,  
pretty much like in WebView, just with different class names; but once  
you learn it, XPath is a lot more powerful.)


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Re: real verses Virtual memory

i was using a notification that was standard that told me when the  
page finished loading...   does this have the same sort of mechanism?   
(or need it)  when fetching the page?


On Oct 10, 2009, at 3:26 PM, Jens Alfke wrote:


If you can't use a feed, use NSURLRequest to fetch the page


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Re: capturing special keys when focused in an NSTextField



On Oct 10, 2009, at 1:13 PM, aaron smith wrote:


Quick question - I have a window that I run as a sheet, which contains
an NSTextField to enter a message. I have the window setup to close
the sheet when the Escape key is pressed, however, when the text field
is focused I can't figure out how to respond to these types of special
keys.


IIRC, this event gets handled by the button's -performKeyEquivalent:  
method, before normal key processing. You could override that method  
in another view to handle the Esc key, but it would probably need to  
be an ancestor view of the button. It might be easier just to clear  
the button's key equivalent property when the text view gets focus and  
restore it afterwards.


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Re: real verses Virtual memory