Re: [Elecraft] Private sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Phil Kane]

On 6/3/2011 3:06 PM, Jim Lowman wrote:

> Recently I ordered a Tablet PC from Amazon, and was surprised
> that they shipped it via USPS.  What I can't figure out is the
> reason that it's scheduled to take until next Wednesday to get
> here from the Seattle area.  When Amazon has shipped books from
> Seattle previously, they took two business days to arrive,
> whether via USPS or UPS.

  Some shippers are now using a hybrid method where UPS sends the
  shipment to a regional USPS distribution center and you then
  get it via USPS. (Forgot the nickname of the service.)

  The absurd situation that I experienced was that using the UPS
  Tracking site I tracked a shipment sent on a Union Pacific RR
  Z-train (hotshot UPS container train) from Los Angeles right
  through Portland (OR) on the way to the Regional Center in
  Kent, WA - across the state near Seattle - and then the USPS
  brought it back to Portland for delivery.  Added three days to
  the shipment versus off-loading the container at UPS Portland
  and out for delivery the next morning along with all the other
  UPS stuff destined for Portland on that train.

  --- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
  Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

  From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
  Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Re: [Elecraft] Private sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Fred Townsend]

Remember Amazon ships from all over the country using the nearest stock.

de, Fred AE6QL

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Lowman
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 3:06 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Private sales of used Elecraft Rigs

Even though I have the tracking information, as a final courtesy to the
buyer, I send a follow-up e-mail to ensure not that it arrived, which I
know, but that it arrived in the condition that it left my possession.  I'm
not happy if the buyer isn't.

Yes, USPS has improved their tracking system, I was recently able to follow
a shipment from the origin to my mailbox.  Before I'm not sure if I even
knew where it was coming from; only when to expect it in the mailbox.

Recently I ordered a Tablet PC from Amazon, and was surprised that they
shipped it via USPS.  What I can't figure out is the reason that it's
scheduled to take until next Wednesday to get here from the Seattle area.
When Amazon has shipped books from Seattle previously, they took two
business days to arrive, whether via USPS or UPS.

73 de Jim - AD6CW

On 6/2/2011 8:41 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>Erik,
>
>
> Recently, I had a package shipped to me - USPS and it had delivery 
> confirmation paid for and applied to it.
> The sender did not bother check the tracking to see whether it was 
> delivered - he instead sent me an email (which I had to take the time 
> and effort to respond to) asking if I had received the parcel.  So, if 
> that was his intent, why did he pay the $0.70 for delivery 
> confirmation service.  And secondly, since he paid for DC service, why 
> did he bother me with questions when he could have inquired of the 
> service he had paid for?  It all remains a mystery to me - why do some 
> buy premium gasoline when their cars are designed to run on regular? - 
> it is one more of those mysteries that make no real sense - take 
> advantage of the services that you are paying for, otherwise, why pay 
> for them?  If one does not use them, then the cost is not justified.
>
> USPS has improved its tracking in the last year or so - before that, 
> you could tell when it was shipped and when it was delivered, but 
> nothing in between.  They have improved, with real tracking 
> information, so those paying for delivery confirmation, the delivery 
> confirmation number (or in the case of international shipments, the 
> customs number) will give you the location of the parcel at any given
time.
>
> If you send a parcel through USPS with Delivery Confirmation, you can 
> now go to the USPS.com website and sign up for email notices of the 
> progress - if you are the shipper, you can request those notifications 
> be sent to the recipient (and you as well if you have interest) - that 
> is not automatic, but it is easy to do.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Private sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Jim McDonald]

You may be aware that the US Postal Service is in dire straits.   This
week's Business Week has a thorough article on it.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/11_23/b4231060885070.htm 

Jim N7US



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Re: [Elecraft] Private sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Jim Lowman]

Even though I have the tracking information, as a final courtesy to the 
buyer,
I send a follow-up e-mail to ensure not that it arrived, which I know, 
but that
it arrived in the condition that it left my possession.  I'm not happy 
if the
buyer isn't.

Yes, USPS has improved their tracking system, I was recently able to 
follow a
shipment from the origin to my mailbox.  Before I'm not sure if I even knew
where it was coming from; only when to expect it in the mailbox.

Recently I ordered a Tablet PC from Amazon, and was surprised that they 
shipped
it via USPS.  What I can't figure out is the reason that it's scheduled 
to take until
next Wednesday to get here from the Seattle area.  When Amazon has shipped
books from Seattle previously, they took two business days to arrive, 
whether
via USPS or UPS.

73 de Jim - AD6CW

On 6/2/2011 8:41 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>Erik,
>
>
> Recently, I had a package shipped to me - USPS and it had delivery
> confirmation paid for and applied to it.
> The sender did not bother check the tracking to see whether it was
> delivered - he instead sent me an email (which I had to take the time
> and effort to respond to) asking if I had received the parcel.  So, if
> that was his intent, why did he pay the $0.70 for delivery confirmation
> service.  And secondly, since he paid for DC service, why did he bother
> me with questions when he could have inquired of the service he had paid
> for?  It all remains a mystery to me - why do some buy premium gasoline
> when their cars are designed to run on regular? - it is one more of
> those mysteries that make no real sense - take advantage of the services
> that you are paying for, otherwise, why pay for them?  If one does not
> use them, then the cost is not justified.
>
> USPS has improved its tracking in the last year or so - before that, you
> could tell when it was shipped and when it was delivered, but nothing in
> between.  They have improved, with real tracking information, so those
> paying for delivery confirmation, the delivery confirmation number (or
> in the case of international shipments, the customs number) will give
> you the location of the parcel at any given time.
>
> If you send a parcel through USPS with Delivery Confirmation, you can
> now go to the USPS.com website and sign up for email notices of the
> progress - if you are the shipper, you can request those notifications
> be sent to the recipient (and you as well if you have interest) - that
> is not automatic, but it is easy to do.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Paul Saville]

Sending radios to ZL is fairly safe, because most of the mail workers
can't read, and the stagecoach that carries the mail has a guy with a
six-shooter to fight off the bandits, so the loss rate is zero.

It's a different story with anything containing "drugs" or "porno"
though, because that is still considered contraband, except in The
Netherlands.

73 Paul ZL3IN ;-)

On 4/06/2011 1:31 a.m., Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
> That works in western countries.  However, anything containing "radio"
> is automatically contraband in many countries outside Western Europe
> and the Americas.
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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Ian White GM3SEK]

Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>> All you have to do is write down the total value (in US$) and an
>> adequate description. "AMATEUR RADIO PARTS" is usually close enough.
>> That's all - you're done.
>
>That works in western countries.  However, anything containing "radio" 
>is automatically contraband in many countries outside Western Europe 
>and the Americas.
>

Could you name any such countries to which a private US citizen would 
actually be *likely* to make a shipment?

I regularly ship "AMATEUR RADIO PARTS" - truthfully declared on the 
Customs form - to a wide range of countries (including India and even 
distant Alaska :-) without any problems.

There are often import taxes to be paid, but that is a different issue. 
In 12 years and almost 2000 shipments I have never had a single report 
that the import of "AMATEUR RADIO PARTS" was not legal.



-- 

73 from Ian GM3SEK
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek
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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Jim Lowman]

For most shipments, I prefer that the postal worker, UPS or FedEx driver 
leave the item on the front porch anyway.  Tracking the shipment online, 
it's easy to see where the driver might have left the package if it 
isn't obvious.

Before we both retired, no one was at home during business hours.  This 
meant the inevitable and unenviable trip to the post office the next 
day, or making arrangements with the local UPS or FedEx office to stop 
by and pick up the item.  Often this involved waiting for the truck to 
arrive after completing all deliveries during the day.

The only time I ever found this to be a problem was several years ago.  
I had ordered an IBM dot-matrix printer when they sold for about $500.  
The UPS driver had left it on the front porch and it was raining.  When 
I called to comment (not really complain) I was told that my 
neighborhood was considered to be safe for drop-offs.  Then I was asked 
if I wanted to file a complaint against the driver.  Since he was 
following established protocol, I declined.  Safe neighborhood 
withstanding, that's an awful lot of temptation to put out there.

73 de Jim - AD6CW

On 6/2/2011 8:13 PM, Phil Kane wrote:
> Contrast that with the local UPS driver who will place a
>package on the front steps, knock softly, and then run to his
>truck to see if he can get away before someone opens the door.
>Sometimes he doesn't knock, and sometimes he will leave the
>package in a secluded place on the side of the steps and not
>post the required "where it is" notice.  FedEx will usually
>ring the bell before they do that.  If it's the regular USPS
>letter carrier she usually will knock loudly before leaving a
>package, but the relief carriers usually don't.  That's why I
>prefer a PO Box for my mail.
>
>What ever happened to "personal service"?
>
> --  73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
>  Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402
>
>  From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
>  Beaverton (Washington County)  Oregon
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Tony Estep]

On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 8:31 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV  wrote:

> ...anything containing "radio" is automatically contraband in many
> countries...


...as I discovered while in India. I had my KX1, which had gotten in okay
because they didn't check at customs. I didn't transmit, just listened, but
I was nervous the whole time that somehow I'd get nabbed and have my radio
confiscated.

Tony KT0NY
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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

 > All you have to do is write down the total value (in US$) and an
 > adequate description. "AMATEUR RADIO PARTS" is usually close enough.
 > That's all - you're done.

That works in western countries.  However, anything containing "radio"
is automatically contraband in many countries outside Western Europe
and the Americas.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 6/3/2011 3:01 AM, Ian White GM3SEK wrote:
> Edward R. Cole wrote:
>>> In my case, the major reason I don't want to sell internationally is
>>> the matter of customs and duties, with the associated paperwork.  Here
>>> it's mostly ignorance of what is needed, what the procedures are, etc.
>>> I might look at it differently with a ham I knew as the buyer.  Nothing
>>> parochial beyond ignorance. :) 73, Jim K9YC
>> --
>> =And I think THIS is really the problem folks are having - they imagine
>> all sorts of issues!  Customs and duties are paid by the receiving
>> party (not the shipper).  All you need do is describe the item.  Simple
>> as saying "Ham radio parts".  Estimate their value (this is what the
>> customs will charge by), your name/address, the destination
>> name/address, your done!  Not any harder than filling out a money
>> order.  The form is half-page in size and most boxes do not
>> need to be filled in as they do not apply.
>
> Let me repeat that: import duties and taxes in the destination country
> are categorically
>
> NOTYOUR   PROBLEM !
>
> All you have to do is write down the total value (in US$) and an
> adequate description. "AMATEUR RADIO PARTS" is usually close enough.
> That's all - you're done.
>
> NB: Always write out "AMATEUR" in full. Ham will be subject to extra
> import restrictions :-)
>
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Gary Gregory]

Fed-Ex and UPS insured and tracked door to door...not a problem and I have
done this for years both at work and play:-)

Gary

On 3 June 2011 08:35, Johnny Siu  wrote:

> Hello Ray,
>
> I have the impression that quite a number of the US sellers are worried
> about shipping overseas (I don't know why).
>
> In the past, when I bought from private individuals in US, I had to even
> give them weblink to USPS about using which way of shipping e.g.
> International Priority standard rate box etc.  Or, I simply ask them to use
> my Fedex account so that they have no involvement in paying any shipping
> costs.
>
> In some cases, since the sellers were so worried that I simply asked them
> to ship to my friends in US. And then I asked my friend to re-ship the gears
> to me.
>
> Nowadays, logistics among countries are just so common.  As long as the
> parcels are well packed and properly tracked, I don't see any problems.
>
> Similar to you, I am not complaining about anyone here but just curious.
>
>
> TNX & 73,
>
>
> Johnny VR2XMC
>
> 從︰ Ray Spreadbury 
> 收件人︰ elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 傳送日期︰ 2011年06月3日 (週五) 12:07 AM
> 主題︰ [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs
>
> I am intrigued, I've noticed that when various Elecraft rigs are offered
> for
> private sale on this forum they invariably say " Continental USA" only.
>
> Why...?
>
> We Europeans also have PayPal, Visa, Bank Transfers  etc etc so what's the
> problem please?
>
>
>
> I just bought a kit & accessories direct from Elecraft 2 weeks ago, it was
> delivered within 7 days and they didn't have a problem with selling to
> Europe.
>
>
>
> Just interested .
>
> 73
>
> Ray G3XLG
>
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-- 

VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile
Elecraft Equipment
K3 #679, KPA-500 #018
Living the dream!!!
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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Ian White GM3SEK]

Edward R. Cole wrote:
>>In my case, the major reason I don't want to sell internationally is 
>>the matter of customs and duties, with the associated paperwork.  Here 
>>it's mostly ignorance of what is needed, what the procedures are, etc. 
>>I might look at it differently with a ham I knew as the buyer.  Nothing
>>parochial beyond ignorance. :) 73, Jim K9YC
>--
>=And I think THIS is really the problem folks are having - they imagine 
>all sorts of issues!  Customs and duties are paid by the receiving 
>party (not the shipper).  All you need do is describe the item.  Simple 
>as saying "Ham radio parts".  Estimate their value (this is what the 
>customs will charge by), your name/address, the destination 
>name/address, your done!  Not any harder than filling out a money 
>order.  The form is half-page in size and most boxes do not
>need to be filled in as they do not apply.

Let me repeat that: import duties and taxes in the destination country 
are categorically

NOTYOUR   PROBLEM !

All you have to do is write down the total value (in US$) and an 
adequate description. "AMATEUR RADIO PARTS" is usually close enough. 
That's all - you're done.

NB: Always write out "AMATEUR" in full. Ham will be subject to extra 
import restrictions :-)



-- 

73 from Ian GM3SEK
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek
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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Phil Hystad]

Here is a link to the incident in Portland,

http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/2011/04/pooping_portland_postman_caugh.php


On Jun 2, 2011, at 10:48 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> You guys live in the wrong place! My Fed Ex, UPS and Postal Carriers are all
> very courteous and careful to find me if they need a signature. My rural
> mailbox is a couple hundred yards from the house, so if there's something
> that doesn't fit, the US Postal carrier comes to my door. Fed EX and UPS
> don't stick around if they don't need a signature, but the wrap everything
> in water proof plastic (this IS rainy Oregon) and leave it where I've asked
> them to. If they aren't sure, they call me! 
> 
> Maybe it helps to say "Thank You" when they bring something. In our
> neighborhood, one must learn to drive one-handed because it's basic
> politeness to wave to everyone while driving by, even the school bus
> drivers...
> 
> Ron AC7AC
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Phil Hystad
> Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 10:25 PM
> To: k2...@kanafi.org
> Cc: Elecraft
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs
> 
> I don't suppose you guys heard what the US postman left at one
> house while delivering mail on his route.  This took place in Portland
> Oregon several months ago (I think, maybe more recent then that).
> He was in the news again because after being on suspension and
> waiting at home, his employer said that he could keep his job but
> on another route.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jun 2, 2011, at 8:13 PM, Phil Kane wrote:
> 
>> On 6/2/2011 6:59 PM, Eugene Balinski wrote:
>> 
>>> My mailman has even run around to the back of my house to place
>>> packages out of the rain.
>> 
>> Contrast that with the local UPS driver who will place a
>> package on the front steps, knock softly, and then run to his
>> truck to see if he can get away before someone opens the door.
>> Sometimes he doesn't knock, and sometimes he will leave the
>> package in a secluded place on the side of the steps and not
>> post the required "where it is" notice.  FedEx will usually
>> ring the bell before they do that.  If it's the regular USPS
>> letter carrier she usually will knock loudly before leaving a
>> package, but the relief carriers usually don't.  That's why I
>> prefer a PO Box for my mail.
>> 
>> What ever happened to "personal service"?
>> 
>> --  73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
>>   Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402
>> 
>>   From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
>>   Beaverton (Washington County)  Oregon
>> 
>> __
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> 
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[Elecraft] Private sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Johnny Siu]

Thanks, ,it sounds interesting to me


TNX & 73,


Johnny VR2XMC

從︰ Nathan Hall 
收件人︰ "Elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
傳送日期︰ 2011年06月3日 (週五) 1:01 PM
主題︰ [Elecraft]  Private sales of used Elecraft Rigs

Hi all,

A mail forwarding service may be of interest to some of you.

I personally use  <http://www.shipito.com/>www.shipito.com they give you an
address in California and offer great discounts on shipping using USPS Fedex
or DHL.

I checked the price for the same 12x12x12 10 lbs 2000 dollar package to the
UK.

USPS priority mail 56 + 35 insurance
USPS express mail 75 + 16 insurance
Fed Ex economy 95 including insurance
Fed Ex priority 100 including insurance
DHL 80 including insurance

You complete your own customs declaration online

They charge a fee of 8 dollars on top of shipping for their service and they
are very efficient higly recommend to all of you.

I am currently shipping a K2 with ATU to Thailand from US shipping cost with
DHL is 100 dollars including the shipito service fee.

They have a shipping calculator on their site.

Best Regards

Nathan Hall HS0ZHG
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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

You guys live in the wrong place! My Fed Ex, UPS and Postal Carriers are all
very courteous and careful to find me if they need a signature. My rural
mailbox is a couple hundred yards from the house, so if there's something
that doesn't fit, the US Postal carrier comes to my door. Fed EX and UPS
don't stick around if they don't need a signature, but the wrap everything
in water proof plastic (this IS rainy Oregon) and leave it where I've asked
them to. If they aren't sure, they call me! 

Maybe it helps to say "Thank You" when they bring something. In our
neighborhood, one must learn to drive one-handed because it's basic
politeness to wave to everyone while driving by, even the school bus
drivers...

Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Phil Hystad
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 10:25 PM
To: k2...@kanafi.org
Cc: Elecraft
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

I don't suppose you guys heard what the US postman left at one
house while delivering mail on his route.  This took place in Portland
Oregon several months ago (I think, maybe more recent then that).
He was in the news again because after being on suspension and
waiting at home, his employer said that he could keep his job but
on another route.




On Jun 2, 2011, at 8:13 PM, Phil Kane wrote:

> On 6/2/2011 6:59 PM, Eugene Balinski wrote:
> 
>> My mailman has even run around to the back of my house to place
>> packages out of the rain.
> 
>  Contrast that with the local UPS driver who will place a
>  package on the front steps, knock softly, and then run to his
>  truck to see if he can get away before someone opens the door.
>  Sometimes he doesn't knock, and sometimes he will leave the
>  package in a secluded place on the side of the steps and not
>  post the required "where it is" notice.  FedEx will usually
>  ring the bell before they do that.  If it's the regular USPS
>  letter carrier she usually will knock loudly before leaving a
>  package, but the relief carriers usually don't.  That's why I
>  prefer a PO Box for my mail.
> 
>  What ever happened to "personal service"?
> 
> --  73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
>Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402
> 
>From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
>Beaverton (Washington County)  Oregon
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Phil Hystad]

I don't suppose you guys heard what the US postman left at one
house while delivering mail on his route.  This took place in Portland
Oregon several months ago (I think, maybe more recent then that).
He was in the news again because after being on suspension and
waiting at home, his employer said that he could keep his job but
on another route.




On Jun 2, 2011, at 8:13 PM, Phil Kane wrote:

> On 6/2/2011 6:59 PM, Eugene Balinski wrote:
> 
>> My mailman has even run around to the back of my house to place
>> packages out of the rain.
> 
>  Contrast that with the local UPS driver who will place a
>  package on the front steps, knock softly, and then run to his
>  truck to see if he can get away before someone opens the door.
>  Sometimes he doesn't knock, and sometimes he will leave the
>  package in a secluded place on the side of the steps and not
>  post the required "where it is" notice.  FedEx will usually
>  ring the bell before they do that.  If it's the regular USPS
>  letter carrier she usually will knock loudly before leaving a
>  package, but the relief carriers usually don't.  That's why I
>  prefer a PO Box for my mail.
> 
>  What ever happened to "personal service"?
> 
> --  73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
>Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402
> 
>From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
>Beaverton (Washington County)  Oregon
> 
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[Elecraft] Private sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Nathan Hall]

Hi all,

A mail forwarding service may be of interest to some of you.

I personally use  www.shipito.com they give you an
address in California and offer great discounts on shipping using USPS Fedex
or DHL.

I checked the price for the same 12x12x12 10 lbs 2000 dollar package to the
UK.

USPS priority mail 56 + 35 insurance
USPS express mail 75 + 16 insurance
Fed Ex economy 95 including insurance
Fed Ex priority 100 including insurance
DHL 80 including insurance

You complete your own customs declaration online

They charge a fee of 8 dollars on top of shipping for their service and they
are very efficient higly recommend to all of you.

I am currently shipping a K2 with ATU to Thailand from US shipping cost with
DHL is 100 dollars including the shipito service fee.

They have a shipping calculator on their site.

Best Regards

Nathan Hall HS0ZHG
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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[WILLIS COOKE]

Usually, acronyms are intended for a limited audience who understands the 
meaning, but they tend to fall into general usage which includes those 
not trained in the actual meaning.  In this case everyone seemed to know that 
CONUS does not include Alaska, no doubt because of so many vets and movies, but 
the confusion came from thinking the CON was for Continental rather than 
Contiguous.  The question was raised that Alaska is in North America, so why 
was 
it not included?  Indeed CONUS came into usage during WW2 when Alaska was not a 
state and the definition may have changed between inception of the acronym and 
my Viet Nam era service.
 Willis 'Cookie' Cooke 
K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart 





From: Ron D'Eau Claire 
To: WILLIS COOKE ; N ; David Herring 

Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net; Mike K2MK 
Sent: Thu, June 2, 2011 10:46:48 PM
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

That's the problem with acronyms and abbreviations - they confuse more than
communicate. 

Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-

I believe that CONUS is actually Contiguous United States which does not
include 
Hawaii or Alaska even if Alaska is on North America.  It also does not
include 
Puerto Rico, U. S. Virgin Islands, Guam and other possessions.  But, as far
as I 
know the postal and other rules are the same for the whole United States, 
Contiguous or not and States, Possessions or Protectorates, but a person
selling 
something is entitle to make up their own rules.
 Willis 'Cookie' Cooke 
K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart 
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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

That's the problem with acronyms and abbreviations - they confuse more than
communicate. 

Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-

I believe that CONUS is actually Contiguous United States which does not
include 
Hawaii or Alaska even if Alaska is on North America.  It also does not
include 
Puerto Rico, U. S. Virgin Islands, Guam and other possessions.  But, as far
as I 
know the postal and other rules are the same for the whole United States, 
Contiguous or not and States, Possessions or Protectorates, but a person
selling 
something is entitle to make up their own rules.
 Willis 'Cookie' Cooke 
K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart 





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Re: [Elecraft] Private sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Don Wilhelm]

  Erik,

A few comments before Eric S. shuts off this obviously OT discussion --.

Some of your points about excess communications apply no matter whether 
the other ham is domestic or in a foreign country - I think we can blame 
it more on the anxiety of the recipient rather than anything else.  
Perhaps international shipping creates additional anxiety on both ends 
for the inexperienced.

Recently, I had a package shipped to me - USPS and it had delivery 
confirmation paid for and applied to it.
The sender did not bother check the tracking to see whether it was 
delivered - he instead sent me an email (which I had to take the time 
and effort to respond to) asking if I had received the parcel.  So, if 
that was his intent, why did he pay the $0.70 for delivery confirmation 
service.  And secondly, since he paid for DC service, why did he bother 
me with questions when he could have inquired of the service he had paid 
for?  It all remains a mystery to me - why do some buy premium gasoline 
when their cars are designed to run on regular? - it is one more of 
those mysteries that make no real sense - take advantage of the services 
that you are paying for, otherwise, why pay for them?  If one does not 
use them, then the cost is not justified.

Now consider - if he was determined to ask me if it was received, why 
did he pay for delivery confirmation.  And, since he did pay for 
delivery confirmation, why did he not type the number in at USPS.com to 
find out whether I had received it or not.

USPS has improved its tracking in the last year or so - before that, you 
could tell when it was shipped and when it was delivered, but nothing in 
between.  They have improved, with real tracking information, so those 
paying for delivery confirmation, the delivery confirmation number (or 
in the case of international shipments, the customs number) will give 
you the location of the parcel at any given time.

If you send a parcel through USPS with Delivery Confirmation, you can 
now go to the USPS.com website and sign up for email notices of the 
progress - if you are the shipper, you can request those notifications 
be sent to the recipient (and you as well if you have interest) - that 
is not automatic, but it is easy to do.

73,
Don W3FPR


On 6/2/2011 10:58 PM, Erik Basilier wrote:
>
> 2.   With a foreign buyer, the number of emails exchanged before and
> after the sale tends to be 3 times the number with domestic buyers. First
> there is looking at different services to find one that is the best price
> including good insurance and estimated delivery time. (During this process,
> going back and forth, web site login expires, and you have to re-enter
> everything about the destination including the buyer's blood type. ) Then
> there is discussion about the adequacy of packing, and what to write on the
> outside of the package to avoid damage from rough handling or inspectors'
> knives. The customs forms tend to differ depending on the exact service
> chosen, even with the same shipping company.  Then there is discussion about
> what the tracking number might be. Unless you prepared for the shipping day
> like a student cramming for a final, you sure didn't remember to ask the
> clerk. (This applies mostly to postal service, as the private services tend
> to help by telling you these things. This, and the terribly slow lines in
> the post office are reasons why some would never consider the post office
> unless it happens to save the foreign buyer a lot of money.) Then there are
> usually followup emails after completed delivery.
>
>
>
> Overall I think I spend at least half a day of my time on a completed
> transaction with a foreign buyer. What is the value of my time? There is
> some satisfaction from being helpful to a foreign ham, but it really isn't
> worth it unless the foreign buyer is willing to bid substantially more than
> domestic buyers. Fortunately this is often the case. However, one won't
> generally get the benefit of that higher price if one sets a friendly, fixed
> price. Next time I advertise something on this list, I may not set a fixed
> price but announce an auction (off list, maybe on ebay).
>
>
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[Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Jon Moody]

HI Ray,

Its nothing personal.  And its not the hassle really.   After getting
stiffed three times on sales for various reasons (I really believe that
there was fraud involved in at least one case)  I just can't afford to sell
things to people over seas.  Granted it wasn't fellow hams but its just
easier to say no then try and make exceptions.

If you have a large enough business I suppose you have some kind of business
insurance against these types of losses but for private parties the
insurance provided by USPS and others is just inadequate and the risk too
great.

-- 
Thanks
Jon
KG6VDW
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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Phil Kane]

On 6/2/2011 6:59 PM, Eugene Balinski wrote:

> My mailman has even run around to the back of my house to place
> packages out of the rain.

  Contrast that with the local UPS driver who will place a
  package on the front steps, knock softly, and then run to his
  truck to see if he can get away before someone opens the door.
  Sometimes he doesn't knock, and sometimes he will leave the
  package in a secluded place on the side of the steps and not
  post the required "where it is" notice.  FedEx will usually
  ring the bell before they do that.  If it's the regular USPS
  letter carrier she usually will knock loudly before leaving a
  package, but the relief carriers usually don't.  That's why I
  prefer a PO Box for my mail.

  What ever happened to "personal service"?

--  73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County)  Oregon

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[Elecraft] Private sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Erik Basilier]

I have several times sold items to foreign countries. Not too long ago I
sold a few items to a small corner of Europe based on my ad on this list. My
sales through ebay have gone to a variety of countries. In general, when I
see that the buyer is actually a ham, I tend to agree to do it, even if I
think it is a pain. Just the other day I sold an Icom to a fellow in Mexico
using ebay. (Gotta raise some cash, given the appearance of new products
from Elecraft.) In the case of the Mexican deal, my listing had excluded
Mexico as an acceptable buyer location, but what do I do when he bids anyway
and offers the best price, and is a fellow ham?

 

It really isn't difficult to ship to other countries, and if I insist on a
shipping method that includes good insurance and tracking all the way, I
don't worry too much about it. (Maybe I have just been lucky so far, and an
insurance nightmare will come one day.) But as a grumpy old man with
significant experience shipping to foreign buyers, I feel qualified to
explain why it is such a pain to ship to foreign buyers. It has little to do
with difficulty, and perhaps not with risk, but it does have a lot to do
with time spent unproductively, with resulting loss of self-respect:

 

1.   People tend to think of a task being associated with a certain time
required to do it. "The IRS estimates that it takes 7 minutes to fill out
this form".  The discussion here has shown a similar mindset. I am sure this
is appropriate if you are, say, a shipper in a shipping department, but it
is a very misleading way of thinking when you are just a ham who will ship
something occasionally. Unless you ship a number of items one after another,
most of the time spent will not be for the actual shipping but for the mind
adjustment and physical movements required to start doing a new type of
task. Anyone working in an office knows that productivity will be awful
unless your group together your phone calls to make, and group together the
letters to write, etc. The ability to switch context just gets worse as we
grow older. Radio buyers won't appreciate it if you tell them that you will
ship their package at the end of the month together with all your other
packages for the month. It does help if each package is shipped using
exactly the same routine, using the same service, to the same country. Many
buyers in other countries use the post office for everything. They miss out
on the better service often available here from other companies, but they
also have an advantage in that every shipment seems about the same, like you
learn only once to ride a bicycle. Having to sometimes use the post office
and sometimes another service to give the buyer the best rate is a source of
great irritation. Add in the fact that the rules and procedures and forms
are different depending on destination country, and each shipment devastates
the day as much as a visit to the dentist. Unless you are a full-time
shipper, your mind never learns any of it to the point that you can do it
without really thinking hard about missing something. 

 

2.   With a foreign buyer, the number of emails exchanged before and
after the sale tends to be 3 times the number with domestic buyers. First
there is looking at different services to find one that is the best price
including good insurance and estimated delivery time. (During this process,
going back and forth, web site login expires, and you have to re-enter
everything about the destination including the buyer's blood type. ) Then
there is discussion about the adequacy of packing, and what to write on the
outside of the package to avoid damage from rough handling or inspectors'
knives. The customs forms tend to differ depending on the exact service
chosen, even with the same shipping company.  Then there is discussion about
what the tracking number might be. Unless you prepared for the shipping day
like a student cramming for a final, you sure didn't remember to ask the
clerk. (This applies mostly to postal service, as the private services tend
to help by telling you these things. This, and the terribly slow lines in
the post office are reasons why some would never consider the post office
unless it happens to save the foreign buyer a lot of money.) Then there are
usually followup emails after completed delivery. 

 

Overall I think I spend at least half a day of my time on a completed
transaction with a foreign buyer. What is the value of my time? There is
some satisfaction from being helpful to a foreign ham, but it really isn't
worth it unless the foreign buyer is willing to bid substantially more than
domestic buyers. Fortunately this is often the case. However, one won't
generally get the benefit of that higher price if one sets a friendly, fixed
price. Next time I advertise something on this list, I may not set a fixed
price but announce an auction (off list, maybe on ebay).

 

73,

Erik K7TV

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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Jim Lowman]

This is an interesting and educational topic.  I haven't yet had to 
ship  any equipment overseas, but there is a EU ham who wants to buy my 
Ten-Tec 526/"6N2" transceiver if I decide to sell it (which I haven't - 
it's second only to the FT-817 for convenience for portable work).

Though it's a quasi-governmental agency, the US Postal Service was 
privatized several years ago.  As such, they are expected to make a 
reasonable attempt at being profitable.  The "Flat Rate" boxes are the 
latest attempt at being competitive with UPS and FedEx, at least for 
shipments within the US (all 50 states).

There are probably an equal number of horror stories about packages 
being damaged by USPS and the other carriers.

In the last year or so I've sold some ham equipment that was excess to 
my needs.  One bit of value-added service that the buyers have enjoyed 
is that I paid for professional packing at the local UPS Store.  Never a 
problem.  It cost me a bit more, but I had the peace of mind knowing 
that the gear would arrive at its destination in the same shape that it 
left my hands.  After my mother passed away we cleaned out the condo and 
shipped things that we wanted to keep from Florida to California.  Even 
a music box with blown-glass figurines on top arrived with no damage.

An interesting thing about UPS is that in case of loss or damage, only 
the shipper can file a claim.  By using the packing and shipping 
services at the UPS Store, they are considered to be the shipper and if 
things go sideways they will step in to resolve the problem.  The other 
thing is that, since it was packed by a UPS agent, they are less likely 
to reject a claim because the item was not packed adequately.

The USPS must be doing a better job at being competitive, as I'm seeing 
more and more goods that I order shipped that way rather than by UPS.  
FedEx sometimes uses the arrangement whereby they ship the item through 
their own channels to a point near its destination, then dump it into 
the postal system for delivery.  I'm not sure how this saves money, but 
it must.

72/73 de Jim - AD6CW



On 6/2/2011 3:45 PM, David Herring wrote:
> Let me just add a few bits of information about shipping to the 50th state:
>
> USPS is quite likely the best way to ship to Hawaii (provided you DO NOT ship 
> Parcel Post or Media Mail -- they can take up to 3 months to get here, even 
> from places as close as California).  Priority Mail and First Class are 
> excellent to Hawaii, arriving in a few days.  They are insurable, trackable 
> and almost always arrive in good condition.
>
> The old notion that USPS is rough with packages doesn't seem to be true 
> anymore.  Some of the worst looking packages, as far as being beaten and 
> mistreated, have come UPS.
>
> UPS is about the worst way to ship to Hawaii, inasmuch as they cost about 3 
> times as much as Postal for no better service.  Oh, and they just love to try 
> and convince us that we don't have Ground service to Hawaii and that we must 
> pay even more for 2nd Day Air.  It's a bunch of hogwash.  We get Ground 
> shipments everyday (still 3 times overpriced, though).
>
> FedEx to Hawaii is great when the package is too big or too heavy for Postal. 
>  They are more expensive, but not ridiculously so as in UPS.
>
> So, I say all this, not to clog up the reflector, but to just suggest that 
> anyone selling anything here should lay off the "CONUS" restriction.  If you 
> want to limit to USA Only, well that's one thing, but no need to cut AK and 
> HI out of the party.
>
> True story:
>
> I was going to buy a $1000 item from someone who as it turned out didn't want 
> to sell to HI.  I explained that there is no difference in shipping and if 
> there was, I'd make up the difference.  Then he says he can only ship via 
> UPS, and that shipping would be nearly $300.
>
> *I don't think so!*
>
> I tried to suggest USPS, or even FedEX, but he'd have no part of that.  So he 
> got to keep his item (I have some suggestions as to where he could store it, 
> but never mind that now...).
>
> Now, a little while later, I found the same thing for about the same price, 
> and it was being sold by someone who didn't mind Hawaii and didn't mind 
> postal.  Shipping via Postal was about $40, insured and tracked.  It arrived, 
> in perfect condition, in 3 days from the east coast.
>
> Those of us in Hawaii deal with this everyday.  Its an island...if you want 
> it here you have to ship it here. So those of us that live here know the ins 
> and outs of shipping here.  if in doubt, ask us.
>
> OK, I'm done.  Back to your regularly scheduled programming, already in 
> progress.
>
> 73&  Aloha,
> Dave AH6TD
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Eugene Balinski]

USPS is my preferred shipper.  As I have mentioned before,
they are local, they are generally helpful, are probably
your neighbors, and have no interest in keeping you from
insurance claims should the need arise.   My mailman has
even run around to the back of my house to place packages
out of the rain.  

73

K1NR 

K2 6Kxx




On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 12:49:27 -0500
 n...@n5ge.com wrote:
> 
> Here in the USA I always choose USPS Priority Mail if
> given the option.  It
> usually costs about the same as UPS Ground and is always
> delivered within two
> business days of being shipped.  Why pay more?
> 
>  
> 
> On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 19:32:42 +0200, István Szabó
>  wrote:
> 
> >USPS is great to buy goods from US. Reasonable cost and
> I have never had 
> >any issues with them. For transceivers this should be a
> tracked package. 
> >UPS is more costly but also good.
> >
> >István Szabó
> >HA4ZD
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >On 6/2/2011 7:25 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> >> On 6/2/2011 10:06 AM, Jan Erik Holm wrote:
> >>> I can not understand how going down to the local post
> >>> office would be a problem and if the customer pays
> the
> >>> shipping why would that present a problem for the
> seller,
> >>> but then again what do I know?
> >> Shipping via the US Postal Service is not something
> that many of us
> >> would choose to do, especially with something as
> delicate and valuable
> >> as a ham transceiver.  That's a big part of why UPS
> and Fed Ex exist.
> >>
> >> In my case, the major reason I don't want to sell
> internationally is the
> >> matter of customs and duties, with the associated
> paperwork.  Here it's
> >> mostly ignorance of what is needed, what the
> procedures are, etc.  I
> >> might look at it differently with a ham I knew as the
> buyer.  Nothing
> >> parochial beyond ignorance. :)
> >>
> >> 73, Jim K9YC
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[WILLIS COOKE]

I believe that CONUS is actually Contiguous United States which does not 
include 
Hawaii or Alaska even if Alaska is on North America.  It also does not include 
Puerto Rico, U. S. Virgin Islands, Guam and other possessions.  But, as far as 
I 
know the postal and other rules are the same for the whole United States, 
Contiguous or not and States, Possessions or Protectorates, but a person 
selling 
something is entitle to make up their own rules.
 Willis 'Cookie' Cooke 
K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart 





From: Jim Wiley 
To: David Herring 
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net; Mike K2MK 
Sent: Thu, June 2, 2011 7:53:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs



And which continent, exactly, are we on?  


- Jim, KL7CC
Anchorage, AK


David Herring wrote:
> Fred,
>
> CONUS means Continental United States.  That leaves out Alaska and Hawaii. 
>  
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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[goldtr8]

Trick question, no fair.

Don
KD8NNU


On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 8:53 PM, Jim Wiley wrote:

> And which continent, exactly, are we on?  
>
>
> - Jim, KL7CC
> Anchorage, AK
>
>
> David Herring wrote:
>> Fred,
>>
>> CONUS means Continental United States.  That leaves out Alaska and 
>> Hawaii.
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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Jim Wiley]

And which continent, exactly, are we on?  


- Jim, KL7CC
Anchorage, AK


David Herring wrote:
> Fred,
>
> CONUS means Continental United States.  That leaves out Alaska and Hawaii. 
>   
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[Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Johnny Siu]

Hello David,
 
After I read through the answers, it appears to me that it would be a matter of 
convenience for individual seller and knowledge about international shipping.
 
Hong Kong is an international city not less advance than New York City too 
much.  We ship in and out all sorts of goods and gears everyday as part of a 
financial centre of the world.  Banking system here is also first rate.
 
To comfort USA sellers, I would offer to pay by paypal, wire transfer or a 
check drawn in favour of a US bank such as HSBC US.  I would further allow the 
seller to wait for the clearance of my check before shipping.
 
I bought radio gears occasionally from US dealers.  I did not encounter any 
problem in packages.  Elecraft is one of the good examples.  I did not 
encounter any problem from the shipping of Elecraft gears from Apoto to Hong 
Kong because they were well packed.
 
I also bought my K3 from an US ham in this reflector.  The entire transaction 
was smooth and no problem.  Both the buyer and seller were happy.
 
We do not have any state tax, federal tax, import duty, VAT, GST and customs 
duty etc.  Filling the customs papers is simple.  The seller simply writes down 
the actual contents and prices.
 
On the other hand, I have no problem to send any gears from Hong Kong to US.  
Radio gears of the big names here are mostly 20% cheaper than US.  Sales from 
Hong Kong to most parts of the world including US are just common and part of 
the radio dealers' lifes (I am NOT a dealer).
 
To conclude, it would be just an individual seller's preference and knowledge 
of international shipping.  Clearly, if he can sell his gears right the way in 
CONUS, then why bother shipping overseas - even Hong Kong is one of the free 
ports with advanced banking system in the world.

TNX & 73,


Johnny VR2XMC

從︰ David Herring 
收件人︰ elecraft@mailman.qth.net
傳送日期︰ 2011年06月3日 (週五) 6:45 AM
主題︰ Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs


Let me just add a few bits of information about shipping to the 50th state:

USPS is quite likely the best way to ship to Hawaii (provided you DO NOT ship 
Parcel Post or Media Mail -- they can take up to 3 months to get here, even 
from places as close as California).  Priority Mail and First Class are 
excellent to Hawaii, arriving in a few days.  They are insurable, trackable and 
almost always arrive in good condition.

The old notion that USPS is rough with packages doesn't seem to be true 
anymore.  Some of the worst looking packages, as far as being beaten and 
mistreated, have come UPS.

UPS is about the worst way to ship to Hawaii, inasmuch as they cost about 3 
times as much as Postal for no better service.  Oh, and they just love to try 
and convince us that we don't have Ground service to Hawaii and that we must 
pay even more for 2nd Day Air.  It's a bunch of hogwash.  We get Ground 
shipments everyday (still 3 times overpriced, though).

FedEx to Hawaii is great when the package is too big or too heavy for Postal.  
They are more expensive, but not ridiculously so as in UPS.

So, I say all this, not to clog up the reflector, but to just suggest that 
anyone selling anything here should lay off the "CONUS" restriction.  If you 
want to limit to USA Only, well that's one thing, but no need to cut AK and HI 
out of the party.

True story:

I was going to buy a $1000 item from someone who as it turned out didn't want 
to sell to HI.  I explained that there is no difference in shipping and if 
there was, I'd make up the difference.  Then he says he can only ship via UPS, 
and that shipping would be nearly $300. 

*I don't think so!*  

I tried to suggest USPS, or even FedEX, but he'd have no part of that.  So he 
got to keep his item (I have some suggestions as to where he could store it, 
but never mind that now...).

Now, a little while later, I found the same thing for about the same price, and 
it was being sold by someone who didn't mind Hawaii and didn't mind postal.  
Shipping via Postal was about $40, insured and tracked.  It arrived, in perfect 
condition, in 3 days from the east coast.

Those of us in Hawaii deal with this everyday.  Its an island...if you want it 
here you have to ship it here. So those of us that live here know the ins and 
outs of shipping here.  if in doubt, ask us.

OK, I'm done.  Back to your regularly scheduled programming, already in 
progress.

73 & Aloha,
Dave AH6TD
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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[David Herring]

Fred,

CONUS means Continental United States.  That leaves out Alaska and Hawaii.  
Nothing you have stated here applies any more to the 49th and 50th state of 
these United States than it does to 1 through 48.  We are not Nigeria (no 
offense to Africa), we don't require international packing, and you are fully 
protected by US law here.

Stipulating "Non-international" or "USA only" is one thing, but CONUS is 
unnecessary.

73 & Aloha,
Dave AH6TD


On Jun 2, 2011, at 1:13 PM, Fred Townsend wrote:

> I agree with Mike that paper work may not be the problem but I think we have
> all heard of horror stories of one kind or another. Dealing with the USPS is
> usually a pleasant experience but not always. One international transaction
> took me over an hour at the counter. The supervisor was repeatedly called.
> It was the clerks first day on the job. He still works at the same office
> but he doesn't smile when I remind him of his first day. There was also the
> clerk that wanted international postage to ship to New Mexico. 
> 
> My biggest fears are what I will call the Nigerian scams. Ebay sellers see
> them all the time. There always seems to be a new twist to what turns out to
> be an old scam. Certified checks and other bonded instruments turn out to be
> worthy only for hanging in the bathroom. By US law checks less than 5K$ are
> quickly cleared but may be billed back weeks later with all charges reversed
> and hefty negotiation charges added. Paypal may be a useful tool but not
> everyone can process credit transactions. Even if you have credit card
> capability certain international transactions require the card to be swiped.
> 
> No one has mentioned international packing requirements but everyone has
> heard of the clerks playing soccer ball with the packages. Everything has to
> be very well packed. Adding the words 'fragile' or 'this side up' calls
> attention to the thieves of valuable contents. Also the contents may be
> subject to customs inspection so you can not seal everything up. This also
> gives the thieves an opportunity to inspect. Heavier items must be wood
> crated. One famous amplifier manufacturer requires their power transformers
> to be removed and shipped separately.
> 
> Finally, US citizens assume they are protected by US law. This is almost
> never the case in foreign transactions. The buyer's country law almost
> always applies which is to say no law at all if we are shipping to many
> third world countries.
> 
> In the end I think you can understand why it is far easier to say CONUS
> ONLY.
> 
> Fred Townsend, AE6QL
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mike K2MK
> Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 2:13 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs
> 
> Hi Ray,
> 
> Paperwork is not the problem. If you pay for the shipment on-line you can
> fill out the simple paperwork there as well. The real problems with
> international shipments are cost and insurability.
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Fred Townsend]

I agree with Mike that paper work may not be the problem but I think we have
all heard of horror stories of one kind or another. Dealing with the USPS is
usually a pleasant experience but not always. One international transaction
took me over an hour at the counter. The supervisor was repeatedly called.
It was the clerks first day on the job. He still works at the same office
but he doesn't smile when I remind him of his first day. There was also the
clerk that wanted international postage to ship to New Mexico. 

My biggest fears are what I will call the Nigerian scams. Ebay sellers see
them all the time. There always seems to be a new twist to what turns out to
be an old scam. Certified checks and other bonded instruments turn out to be
worthy only for hanging in the bathroom. By US law checks less than 5K$ are
quickly cleared but may be billed back weeks later with all charges reversed
and hefty negotiation charges added. Paypal may be a useful tool but not
everyone can process credit transactions. Even if you have credit card
capability certain international transactions require the card to be swiped.

No one has mentioned international packing requirements but everyone has
heard of the clerks playing soccer ball with the packages. Everything has to
be very well packed. Adding the words 'fragile' or 'this side up' calls
attention to the thieves of valuable contents. Also the contents may be
subject to customs inspection so you can not seal everything up. This also
gives the thieves an opportunity to inspect. Heavier items must be wood
crated. One famous amplifier manufacturer requires their power transformers
to be removed and shipped separately.

Finally, US citizens assume they are protected by US law. This is almost
never the case in foreign transactions. The buyer's country law almost
always applies which is to say no law at all if we are shipping to many
third world countries.

In the end I think you can understand why it is far easier to say CONUS
ONLY.

Fred Townsend, AE6QL

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mike K2MK
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 2:13 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

Hi Ray,

Paperwork is not the problem. If you pay for the shipment on-line you can
fill out the simple paperwork there as well. The real problems with
international shipments are cost and insurability.


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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[David Herring]

Let me just add a few bits of information about shipping to the 50th state:

USPS is quite likely the best way to ship to Hawaii (provided you DO NOT ship 
Parcel Post or Media Mail -- they can take up to 3 months to get here, even 
from places as close as California).  Priority Mail and First Class are 
excellent to Hawaii, arriving in a few days.  They are insurable, trackable and 
almost always arrive in good condition.

The old notion that USPS is rough with packages doesn't seem to be true 
anymore.  Some of the worst looking packages, as far as being beaten and 
mistreated, have come UPS.

UPS is about the worst way to ship to Hawaii, inasmuch as they cost about 3 
times as much as Postal for no better service.  Oh, and they just love to try 
and convince us that we don't have Ground service to Hawaii and that we must 
pay even more for 2nd Day Air.  It's a bunch of hogwash.  We get Ground 
shipments everyday (still 3 times overpriced, though).

FedEx to Hawaii is great when the package is too big or too heavy for Postal.  
They are more expensive, but not ridiculously so as in UPS.

So, I say all this, not to clog up the reflector, but to just suggest that 
anyone selling anything here should lay off the "CONUS" restriction.  If you 
want to limit to USA Only, well that's one thing, but no need to cut AK and HI 
out of the party.

True story:

I was going to buy a $1000 item from someone who as it turned out didn't want 
to sell to HI.  I explained that there is no difference in shipping and if 
there was, I'd make up the difference.  Then he says he can only ship via UPS, 
and that shipping would be nearly $300. 

*I don't think so!*  

I tried to suggest USPS, or even FedEX, but he'd have no part of that.  So he 
got to keep his item (I have some suggestions as to where he could store it, 
but never mind that now...).

Now, a little while later, I found the same thing for about the same price, and 
it was being sold by someone who didn't mind Hawaii and didn't mind postal.  
Shipping via Postal was about $40, insured and tracked.  It arrived, in perfect 
condition, in 3 days from the east coast.

Those of us in Hawaii deal with this everyday.  Its an island...if you want it 
here you have to ship it here. So those of us that live here know the ins and 
outs of shipping here.  if in doubt, ask us.

OK, I'm done.  Back to your regularly scheduled programming, already in 
progress.

73 & Aloha,
Dave AH6TD
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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Edward R. Cole]

Shipping via the US Postal Service is not something that many of us
would choose to do, especially with something as delicate and valuable
as a ham transceiver.  That's a big part of why UPS and Fed Ex exist.
--
=OK, but it is generally cheaper outside CONUS to use USPS vs. 
UPS/FedEx.  And the buyer chooses mode of shipping and pays the rate 
- so where it the problem?  For something expensive, definitely 
insure it (again the buyer pays).
---
In my case, the major reason I don't want to sell internationally is the
matter of customs and duties, with the associated paperwork.  Here it's
mostly ignorance of what is needed, what the procedures are, etc.  I
might look at it differently with a ham I knew as the buyer.  Nothing
parochial beyond ignorance. :) 73, Jim K9YC
--
=And I think THIS is really the problem folks are having - they 
imagine all sorts of issues!  Customs and duties are paid by the 
receiving party (not the shipper).  All you need do is describe the 
item.  Simple as saying "Ham radio parts".  Estimate their value 
(this is what the customs will charge by), your name/address, the 
destination name/address, your done!  Not any harder than filling out 
a money order.  The form is half-page in size and most boxes do not 
need to be filled in as they do not apply.
--

OK done ranting ;-)




73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
==
BP40IQ   500 KHz - 10-GHz   www.kl7uw.com
EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-testing*, 3400-?
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubus...@hotmail.com
==
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[Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Johnny Siu]

Hello Ray,
 
I have the impression that quite a number of the US sellers are worried about 
shipping overseas (I don't know why).
 
In the past, when I bought from private individuals in US, I had to even give 
them weblink to USPS about using which way of shipping e.g. International 
Priority standard rate box etc.  Or, I simply ask them to use my Fedex account 
so that they have no involvement in paying any shipping costs.
 
In some cases, since the sellers were so worried that I simply asked them to 
ship to my friends in US. And then I asked my friend to re-ship the gears to me.
 
Nowadays, logistics among countries are just so common.  As long as the parcels 
are well packed and properly tracked, I don't see any problems.
 
Similar to you, I am not complaining about anyone here but just curious.
 
 
TNX & 73,


Johnny VR2XMC

從︰ Ray Spreadbury 
收件人︰ elecraft@mailman.qth.net
傳送日期︰ 2011年06月3日 (週五) 12:07 AM
主題︰ [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

I am intrigued, I've noticed that when various Elecraft rigs are offered for
private sale on this forum they invariably say " Continental USA" only.

Why...?

We Europeans also have PayPal, Visa, Bank Transfers  etc etc so what's the
problem please?



I just bought a kit & accessories direct from Elecraft 2 weeks ago, it was
delivered within 7 days and they didn't have a problem with selling to
Europe.



Just interested .

73

Ray G3XLG

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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft rigs

[Mike]

Anybody remember the scam where the buyer wanted to overpay by $500 or $1000 or 
so, 
have a "friend" in the U.S. handle the shipping and the extra remittance. The 
overseas payment bounced, and there was no recourse.

73, Mike NF4L

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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Edward R. Cole]

Have to back up what Jim, KL7CC,.said:

Flat-Rate Priority Mail is just that -  the same amount to ship to 
all 50 states!  I use PayPal as it most convenient for selling and 
buying (verified funds and almost instantly transferred-no monetary 
exchange fees).  I can use my credit card with PayPal as most hams 
are not able to accept a cc payment.  But then some folks don't 
"like" PayPal (I translate that to mean they do not trust it).  I 
have been using is for several years with both ebay and private ham 
transactions, in the USA and internationally.  Never a problem!

BTW International Priority Mail is reasonably fast (from Alaska to EU 
about 15-days or less).

Customs forms are not hard to fill out.  If you have a question ask 
at the postal desk.  I think the CONUS folks need to come up and mush 
a dog team at -20F and have a sleep-over in an igloo.  Folks have got 
too used to easy-fast everything with apps!

Just as a side note so you know where I am coming from:  I lived my 
first three years in Alaska in a 8x10 foot canvas wall-tent heated 
with wood and no utilities of any kind...I would not trade that 
experience for anything (but glad I live in a modern gas-heated home, 
now).  I have had sled dogs since 1980 with only three left in their 
(and my) old age.

When folks limit their transactions to CONUS they miss out.  I hear 
there are a lot of rich oil people live up in Alaska!  I could say 
more but this is OT.


73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
==
BP40IQ   500 KHz - 10-GHz   www.kl7uw.com
EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-testing*, 3400-?
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubus...@hotmail.com
==
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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

> You can use USPS International Priority Mail but the limit of
> insurance is only $650. Not good enough for an amateur rig. And then
> if it isn't delivered how easy will it be to collect the insurance???

USPS Insurance limits vary depending on country.  Some are as high as
$5000 and in other cases insurance is not available.  The amount of
available insurance is based on the value that the destination country
will insure.

In any case, it's nearly impossible to collect on the insurance as the
USPS claims people will do everything they can - including lying about
import restrictions and improperly classifying shipments - in order to
reject claims.  They are only marginally better than insurance from UPS
or FedEx, in my experience.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 6/2/2011 5:13 PM, Mike K2MK wrote:
> Hi Ray,
>
> Paperwork is not the problem. If you pay for the shipment on-line you can
> fill out the simple paperwork there as well. The real problems with
> international shipments are cost and insurability.
>
> USPS is reasonable if you can ship by International First Class Mail.
> Unfortunately you can't purchase insurance so this not good for an expensive
> item. You can send it as Registered which is highly reliable within the USA
> but once it leaves our air space all bets are off. I shipped a 3 pound ebay
> item (value $250) to Israel with registration and it had not arrived after a
> month. I started a trace 2 months ago and still have not heard any results.
> So I had to reimburse the buyer and if the trace comes back as lost I
> "might" be able to collect a small amount of money. I'm not holding my
> breath.
>
> You can use USPS International Priority Mail but the limit of insurance is
> only $650. Not good enough for an amateur rig. And then if it isn't
> delivered how easy will it be to collect the insurance??? And how long will
> it take to trace the shipment before they settle the claim??? The buyer will
> want his money back right away.
>
> The best USPS has to offer is Global Express Guaranteed. It has a $2500
> insurance limit. I priced up a 10 pound package to the UK with $2000
> insurance and the shipping cost is $155.
>
> UPS is probably the most reliable service since they have their own people
> at the delivery end but the cost will be higher still. The same 10 pound
> package in a 12 x 12 x 12 inch box, insured at $2000, would cost $224 to
> ship to the UK.
>
> Is it worth the hassle when there are buyers in the US? I don't think so.
>
> 73,
> Mike K2MK
>
>
> Ray G3XLG wrote:
>>
>> I am intrigued, I've noticed that when various Elecraft rigs are offered
>> for
>> private sale on this forum they invariably say " Continental USA" only.
>>
>> Why...?
>>
>> We Europeans also have PayPal, Visa, Bank Transfers  etc etc so what's the
>> problem please?
>>
>> I just bought a kit&  accessories direct from Elecraft 2 weeks ago, it was
>> delivered within 7 days and they didn't have a problem with selling to
>> Europe.
>>
>> Just interested .
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Ray G3XLG
>>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Private-Sales-of-used-Elecraft-Rigs-tp6431789p6432890.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[w5ov]

As one who ships expensive amateur equipment everywhere around the globe
on a daily basis as my job, I have a couple of comments.

First, using Priority Mail to KH6 or KL7 costs the same as to any other
U.S. destination - so the assertion that it costs more to ship there *via
the post office* is not true.

Second, the best service to use from the Post Office for international
shipping is called "Express Mail International". It is still called "EMS"
in many other countries. The insurance amount varies depending on what
country you are shipping to. The tracking for this service is about the
best you can get from the Post Office. It ain't great, but it's the best
they offer.

You do not have to pay for the shipment online but you can still fill out
the customs paperwork on line. I highly recommend this. It saves time at
the Post Office as the clerk will not have to type all of the information
about your shipment. It creates 5 copies of the customs form. Take all 5
with you, cut the page where they tell you to - sign and date all 5
copies.

They scan a bar code on the customs forms you printed at home, and the
data populates their screen. You will need to fill out the red/white/blue
Express Mail label which you can get at the Post Office. This is nothing
more than names and addresses.

Most clerks at the Post Office will help you complete the forms. Honestly,
this should not present anyone here with any difficulty whatsoever.

Without question, UPS Express Saver service is the best way to go. The
cost will be higher, but you get real tracking, real insurance and they
deliver within 2 or 3 business days most anywhere in the world. You can
create shipments on the UPS.com website and check rates. Expedited service
is slightly lower cost, but can take up to a week or so to get delivery.
The term "expedited" is a misnomer as the truth is that it means
not-expedited.

73,

Bob W5OV



> Hi Ray,
>
> Paperwork is not the problem. If you pay for the shipment on-line you can
> fill out the simple paperwork there as well. The real problems with
> international shipments are cost and insurability.
>
> USPS is reasonable if you can ship by International First Class Mail.
> Unfortunately you can't purchase insurance so this not good for an
> expensive
> item. You can send it as Registered which is highly reliable within the
> USA
> but once it leaves our air space all bets are off. I shipped a 3 pound
> ebay
> item (value $250) to Israel with registration and it had not arrived after
> a
> month. I started a trace 2 months ago and still have not heard any
> results.
> So I had to reimburse the buyer and if the trace comes back as lost I
> "might" be able to collect a small amount of money. I'm not holding my
> breath.
>
> You can use USPS International Priority Mail but the limit of insurance is
> only $650. Not good enough for an amateur rig. And then if it isn't
> delivered how easy will it be to collect the insurance??? And how long
> will
> it take to trace the shipment before they settle the claim??? The buyer
> will
> want his money back right away.
>
> The best USPS has to offer is Global Express Guaranteed. It has a $2500
> insurance limit. I priced up a 10 pound package to the UK with $2000
> insurance and the shipping cost is $155.
>
> UPS is probably the most reliable service since they have their own people
> at the delivery end but the cost will be higher still. The same 10 pound
> package in a 12 x 12 x 12 inch box, insured at $2000, would cost $224 to
> ship to the UK.
>
> Is it worth the hassle when there are buyers in the US? I don't think so.
>
> 73,
> Mike K2MK
>
>
> Ray G3XLG wrote:
>>
>> I am intrigued, I've noticed that when various Elecraft rigs are offered
>> for
>> private sale on this forum they invariably say " Continental USA" only.
>>
>> Why...?
>>
>> We Europeans also have PayPal, Visa, Bank Transfers  etc etc so what's
>> the
>> problem please?
>>
>> I just bought a kit & accessories direct from Elecraft 2 weeks ago, it
>> was
>> delivered within 7 days and they didn't have a problem with selling to
>> Europe.
>>
>> Just interested .
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Ray G3XLG
>>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Private-Sales-of-used-Elecraft-Rigs-tp6431789p6432890.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Mike K2MK]

Hi Ray,

Paperwork is not the problem. If you pay for the shipment on-line you can
fill out the simple paperwork there as well. The real problems with
international shipments are cost and insurability.

USPS is reasonable if you can ship by International First Class Mail.
Unfortunately you can't purchase insurance so this not good for an expensive
item. You can send it as Registered which is highly reliable within the USA
but once it leaves our air space all bets are off. I shipped a 3 pound ebay
item (value $250) to Israel with registration and it had not arrived after a
month. I started a trace 2 months ago and still have not heard any results.
So I had to reimburse the buyer and if the trace comes back as lost I
"might" be able to collect a small amount of money. I'm not holding my
breath.

You can use USPS International Priority Mail but the limit of insurance is
only $650. Not good enough for an amateur rig. And then if it isn't
delivered how easy will it be to collect the insurance??? And how long will
it take to trace the shipment before they settle the claim??? The buyer will
want his money back right away.

The best USPS has to offer is Global Express Guaranteed. It has a $2500
insurance limit. I priced up a 10 pound package to the UK with $2000
insurance and the shipping cost is $155. 

UPS is probably the most reliable service since they have their own people
at the delivery end but the cost will be higher still. The same 10 pound
package in a 12 x 12 x 12 inch box, insured at $2000, would cost $224 to
ship to the UK.

Is it worth the hassle when there are buyers in the US? I don't think so.

73,
Mike K2MK


Ray G3XLG wrote:
> 
> I am intrigued, I've noticed that when various Elecraft rigs are offered
> for
> private sale on this forum they invariably say " Continental USA" only.
> 
> Why...?
> 
> We Europeans also have PayPal, Visa, Bank Transfers  etc etc so what's the
> problem please?
> 
> I just bought a kit & accessories direct from Elecraft 2 weeks ago, it was
> delivered within 7 days and they didn't have a problem with selling to
> Europe.
> 
> Just interested .
> 
> 73
> 
> Ray G3XLG
> 


--
View this message in context: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Private-Sales-of-used-Elecraft-Rigs-tp6431789p6432890.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft rigs

[Doug Turnbull]

Eric,
I believe that insurance does cover packages shipped to the EU, African
countries may be more risky perhaps because of poverty or corruption.
Having said this your point is that made by others that the average guy just
does not know the rules nor codes for international shipping of expensive
radio equipment.   This might make a useful article for QST but most people
would be bored by the topic.  It is generally the overseas operators who
suffer as the US is a large market with attractive prices for radio gear, in
Europe we envy the QST prices.

 73 Doug EI2CN

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Eric Champine
Sent: 02 June 2011 20:04
To: Joseph Trombino, Jr
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft rigs

Hi all.
I shipped two boxes with assorted small stuff that they needed to my nieces
in Africa via the USPS and I was told that my insurance and
delivery confirmation was only good in the US. I still shipped it anyway.
Both of the boxes never showed up and they didn't get what they wanted and I
was out a small amount of cash. Now imagine shipping $1,500.00 bucks USD of
ham equipment and having that happen. That is one reason when I sell
something it is always only in the US. Sorry to everyone else. Just not
worth the headache to me, I have not tried UPS or FedEx yet to see if it
gets through.

73 de W2EEC

Eric
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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft rigs

[Eric Champine]

Hi all.
I shipped two boxes with assorted small stuff that they needed to my nieces
in Africa via the USPS and I was told that my insurance and
delivery confirmation was only good in the US. I still shipped it anyway.
Both of the boxes never showed up and they didn't get what they wanted and I
was out a small amount of cash. Now imagine shipping $1,500.00 bucks USD of
ham equipment and having that happen. That is one reason when I sell
something it is always only in the US. Sorry to everyone else. Just not
worth the headache to me, I have not tried UPS or FedEx yet to see if it
gets through.

73 de W2EEC

Eric
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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Don Wilhelm]

  It is not necessarily more expensive to ship USPS Priority Mail to AK 
and HI.  If the parcel is lightweight, use regular Priority Mail, and if 
it is heavy, use Priority Mail Flat Rate - no change in the price no 
matter what the shipping zone.  Weigh the package and go to www.USPS.com 
and obtain the amount for each option - it is not complicated at all.

The biggest problem with overseas US Mail shipments is the limit each 
country places on insurance.  As I recall, the maximum insurance I can 
use to Canada is $700, and several other countries are substantially 
lower.  If the parcel has substantial value, use UPS, FedEx or DHL.  
Most shipping centers will assist with the customs forms,

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/2/2011 2:29 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:
> But, it is more expensive to send packages to Alaska and Hawaii.  And of 
> course Alaska and Hawaii also have their own DXCC entity identifier separate 
> from the lower-48 states of the US.
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft rigs

[Dale Putnam]

I've shipped to many other countries, not any where the number of countries, 
nor item shipped as Elecraft does, however, one strong deterrant is having to 
deal with lost, strayed, or undelivered items. Months of time and many hours of 
effort, will be spent, in an attempt to correct, or find the reason for 
non-delivery. Not to mention that insurance nor delivery tracking is available 
into many countries. And in some countries, mail theft happens, check on 
sending qsl cards to and from
  I'm just elated that I'm not in charge of shipping for Elecraft. 
  Shipping international is simply a different set of rules, and must be 
managed differently than the local, normal mailings. 

--... ...-- Dale - WC7S in Wy


.
> 
> When I sent a rig to Australia I was told by the USPS that the insurance I 
> had purchased for the rig would only be good up the the shores of the 
> U.S..once the package left CONUS the insurance would not cover any damage 
> or loss.
  
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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Phil Hystad]

But, it is more expensive to send packages to Alaska and Hawaii.  And of course 
Alaska and Hawaii also have their own DXCC entity identifier separate from the 
lower-48 states of the US.  


On Jun 2, 2011, at 10:04 AM, Jim Wiley wrote:

> The problem, generally speaking, is ignorance.In our case, sellers seem 
> to be completely unaware that Alaska and Hawaii are part of the 50 states.  
> They think we are a foreign country.  Some of them don't even understand that 
> we use the same money!   We have all the same services, the post office goes 
> everywhere,  standard US banks, Paypal, etc. Fedex and UPS have service 
> to most locations (not so much in the true bush) including both air and 
> ground delivery.  
> 
> It is actually easier to convince some people that I live in a 2-story igloo 
> and mush a dog team to work, which they love to believe :-)   than 
> the real facts, which are that I live in a 4200  Sq Ft  home of standard 
> frame construction and drive an  Audi A8 on the freeway when I go shopping.   
>  OK, the A8 is 12 years old, but still . . .   Heck, we got satellite TV , 
> Starbucks, Gap stores, TGI Fridays, an IMAX theatre,  and even a Costco store 
> or three.
> 
> 
> - Jim, KL7CC
> Anchorage
> 
> 
> 
> Phil Hystad wrote:
>> One reason is that sending a package in CONUS (continental US) is a lot 
>> easier and generally cheaper then sending it to other countries or even to 
>> Alaska or Hawaii.
>> 
>> 
>> On Jun 2, 2011, at 9:07 AM, Ray Spreadbury wrote:
>> 
>>  
>>> I am intrigued, I've noticed that when various Elecraft rigs are offered for
>>> private sale on this forum they invariably say " Continental USA" only.
>>> 
>>> Why...?
>>> 
>>> We Europeans also have PayPal, Visa, Bank Transfers  etc etc so what's the
>>> problem please?
>>> 
>>>
>> 

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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Merv Schweigert]

Thanks Jim,  you hit the nail on the head,  I had a hard time convincing 
one gent that the
postage stamp was good to Hawaii,  he thought mailing a envelope to here 
was even
higher priced.   Flat rate priority boxes are the same cost to any of 
the 50 states,  but
then I find also a lot of hams do not even know about flat rate boxes.

Merv K9FD/KH6   ex KH7C
> The problem, generally speaking, is ignorance.In our case, sellers
> seem to be completely unaware that Alaska and Hawaii are part of the 50
> states.  They think we are a foreign country.  Some of them don't even
> understand that we use the same money!   We have all the same services,
> the post office goes everywhere,  standard US banks, Paypal, etc.
> Fedex and UPS have service to most locations (not so much in the true
> bush) including both air and ground delivery.
>
>
> It is actually easier to convince some people that I live in a 2-story
> igloo and mush a dog team to work, which they love to believe
> :-)   than the real facts, which are that I live in a 4200  Sq
> Ft  home of standard frame construction and drive an  Audi A8 on the
> freeway when I go shopping.OK, the A8 is 12 years old, but still . .
> .   Heck, we got satellite TV , Starbucks, Gap stores, TGI Fridays, an
> IMAX theatre,  and even a Costco store or three.
>
>
> - Jim, KL7CC
>Anchorage
>
>
>
> Phil Hystad wrote:
>
>> One reason is that sending a package in CONUS (continental US) is a lot 
>> easier and generally cheaper then sending it to other countries or even to 
>> Alaska or Hawaii.
>>
>>
>> On Jun 2, 2011, at 9:07 AM, Ray Spreadbury wrote:
>>
>>
>>  
>>> I am intrigued, I've noticed that when various Elecraft rigs are offered for
>>> private sale on this forum they invariably say " Continental USA" only.
>>>
>>> Why...?
>>>
>>> We Europeans also have PayPal, Visa, Bank Transfers  etc etc so what's the
>>> problem please?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>  
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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft rigs

[Joseph Trombino, Jr]

My biggest concern in shipping rigs overseas is the insurance angle.

When I sent a rig to Australia I was told by the USPS that the insurance I had 
purchased for the rig would only be good up the the shores of the U.S..once 
the package left CONUS the insurance would not cover any damage or loss.

That is the only package I have sent overseas so I don't know about UPS or 
FedEx regarding their insurance policies.

So if one were to ship a K3 valued at circa $3K to an overseas address using 
USPS Priority mail and it got lost or damaged while in overseas transit what 
does the seller or the purchaser do???

Do UPS or FedEx offer insurance that will cover overseas mailings??

Does Elecraft have any input given that they ship all over the world???

73, Joe W2KJ
I QRP, therefore I am
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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Fred Jensen]

For some of the big contests, you both ARE foreign countries :-)

Fred K6DGW
Auburn
California Republic [it says so on our Bear Flag]

"4 out of 3 people have difficulty with fractions."

On 6/2/2011 10:04 AM, Jim Wiley wrote:
> The problem, generally speaking, is ignorance.In our case, sellers
> seem to be completely unaware that Alaska and Hawaii are part of the 50
> states.  They think we are a foreign country.
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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Doug Turnbull]

I have a foot in both camps living permanently in EI land since 1973 but
visiting W land and my family every summer.   Most US hams would have no
idea what description or export numbers to put on a parcel of value being
sent to the EU let alone other nations.   Many W, VE would continue to feel
a certain obligation once the radio was shipped and the uncertainty is not
something they want to take on.  If you are fortunate enough to have a US
friend to visit ship the radio to them and pick it up on your next visit.
Of course you then have to deal with customs in the airport but you can have
your receipts with you and probably will not have too much trouble.   

My personal experience with USPS is good having just received a second K3
from Elecraft in less than a weeks time though in this case I needed to use
a customs clearance service and UPS seems to do this for you automatically.
Small lower value parcels sometimes come though without any duty or even VAT
being charged but this is just luck!

I may be wrong but it seems to me that ordering direct from Elecraft is
still less expensive than purchasing other radios direct from distributors
within the EU.   It is handy to be able to purchase in kit form as this
apparently means that the radio is duty free though subject to VAT.   A
friend EI2JD just helped another EI get his duty back on a built ham radio
so apparently at least for EI it is possible to obtain built ham radios in
this part of EU without duty and I would suspect this applies for the whole
of the EU.

The kits are of course a bit less expensive and thus less VAT is due on
them.   You might get a couple of filters without duty or VAT if shipped in
a small package but this will of course vary with the officiousness of the
carrier and country.   I would expect either FedEx or UPS to always make
full charges.

Elecraft has an advantage in that it uses modular build so if you can locate
a fault to a module it is possible to just post the module back to Elecraft.
Another advantage of kits is that you are more adept at taking out modules
if needs be though so far there have been no problems here. 

This is just my experience and it may change at any time.

   73 Doug EI2CN formerly K4WQZ in 1960

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Brown
Sent: 02 June 2011 18:25
To: Reflector Elecraft
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

On 6/2/2011 10:06 AM, Jan Erik Holm wrote:
> I can not understand how going down to the local post
> office would be a problem and if the customer pays the
> shipping why would that present a problem for the seller,
> but then again what do I know?

Shipping via the US Postal Service is not something that many of us 
would choose to do, especially with something as delicate and valuable 
as a ham transceiver.  That's a big part of why UPS and Fed Ex exist.

In my case, the major reason I don't want to sell internationally is the 
matter of customs and duties, with the associated paperwork.  Here it's 
mostly ignorance of what is needed, what the procedures are, etc.  I 
might look at it differently with a ham I knew as the buyer.  Nothing 
parochial beyond ignorance. :)

73, Jim K9YC



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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[n5ge]

Here in the USA I always choose USPS Priority Mail if given the option.  It
usually costs about the same as UPS Ground and is always delivered within two
business days of being shipped.  Why pay more?

 

On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 19:32:42 +0200, István Szabó  wrote:

>USPS is great to buy goods from US. Reasonable cost and I have never had 
>any issues with them. For transceivers this should be a tracked package. 
>UPS is more costly but also good.
>
>István Szabó
>HA4ZD
>
>
>
>
>On 6/2/2011 7:25 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>> On 6/2/2011 10:06 AM, Jan Erik Holm wrote:
>>> I can not understand how going down to the local post
>>> office would be a problem and if the customer pays the
>>> shipping why would that present a problem for the seller,
>>> but then again what do I know?
>> Shipping via the US Postal Service is not something that many of us
>> would choose to do, especially with something as delicate and valuable
>> as a ham transceiver.  That's a big part of why UPS and Fed Ex exist.
>>
>> In my case, the major reason I don't want to sell internationally is the
>> matter of customs and duties, with the associated paperwork.  Here it's
>> mostly ignorance of what is needed, what the procedures are, etc.  I
>> might look at it differently with a ham I knew as the buyer.  Nothing
>> parochial beyond ignorance. :)
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[István Szabó]

USPS is great to buy goods from US. Reasonable cost and I have never had 
any issues with them. For transceivers this should be a tracked package. 
UPS is more costly but also good.

István Szabó
HA4ZD




On 6/2/2011 7:25 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> On 6/2/2011 10:06 AM, Jan Erik Holm wrote:
>> I can not understand how going down to the local post
>> office would be a problem and if the customer pays the
>> shipping why would that present a problem for the seller,
>> but then again what do I know?
> Shipping via the US Postal Service is not something that many of us
> would choose to do, especially with something as delicate and valuable
> as a ham transceiver.  That's a big part of why UPS and Fed Ex exist.
>
> In my case, the major reason I don't want to sell internationally is the
> matter of customs and duties, with the associated paperwork.  Here it's
> mostly ignorance of what is needed, what the procedures are, etc.  I
> might look at it differently with a ham I knew as the buyer.  Nothing
> parochial beyond ignorance. :)
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Jim Brown]

On 6/2/2011 10:06 AM, Jan Erik Holm wrote:
> I can not understand how going down to the local post
> office would be a problem and if the customer pays the
> shipping why would that present a problem for the seller,
> but then again what do I know?

Shipping via the US Postal Service is not something that many of us 
would choose to do, especially with something as delicate and valuable 
as a ham transceiver.  That's a big part of why UPS and Fed Ex exist.

In my case, the major reason I don't want to sell internationally is the 
matter of customs and duties, with the associated paperwork.  Here it's 
mostly ignorance of what is needed, what the procedures are, etc.  I 
might look at it differently with a ham I knew as the buyer.  Nothing 
parochial beyond ignorance. :)

73, Jim K9YC



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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Jan Erik Holm]

I can not understand how going down to the local post
office would be a problem and if the customer pays the
shipping why would that present a problem for the seller,
but then again what do I know?

/ Jim SM2EKM

On 2011-06-02 18:12, Phil Hystad wrote:
> One reason is that sending a package in CONUS (continental US) is a lot 
> easier and generally cheaper then sending it to other countries or even to 
> Alaska or Hawaii.
>
>
> On Jun 2, 2011, at 9:07 AM, Ray Spreadbury wrote:
>
>> I am intrigued, I've noticed that when various Elecraft rigs are offered for
>> private sale on this forum they invariably say " Continental USA" only.
>>
>> Why...?
>>
>> We Europeans also have PayPal, Visa, Bank Transfers  etc etc so what's the
>> problem please?
>>
>>
>>
>> I just bought a kit&  accessories direct from Elecraft 2 weeks ago, it was
>> delivered within 7 days and they didn't have a problem with selling to
>> Europe.
>>
>>
>>
>> Just interested .
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Ray G3XLG
>>
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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Jim Wiley]

The problem, generally speaking, is ignorance.In our case, sellers 
seem to be completely unaware that Alaska and Hawaii are part of the 50 
states.  They think we are a foreign country.  Some of them don't even 
understand that we use the same money!   We have all the same services, 
the post office goes everywhere,  standard US banks, Paypal, etc. 
Fedex and UPS have service to most locations (not so much in the true 
bush) including both air and ground delivery.  


It is actually easier to convince some people that I live in a 2-story 
igloo and mush a dog team to work, which they love to believe 
:-)   than the real facts, which are that I live in a 4200  Sq 
Ft  home of standard frame construction and drive an  Audi A8 on the 
freeway when I go shopping.OK, the A8 is 12 years old, but still . . 
.   Heck, we got satellite TV , Starbucks, Gap stores, TGI Fridays, an 
IMAX theatre,  and even a Costco store or three.


- Jim, KL7CC
  Anchorage



Phil Hystad wrote:
> One reason is that sending a package in CONUS (continental US) is a lot 
> easier and generally cheaper then sending it to other countries or even to 
> Alaska or Hawaii.
>
>
> On Jun 2, 2011, at 9:07 AM, Ray Spreadbury wrote:
>
>   
>> I am intrigued, I've noticed that when various Elecraft rigs are offered for
>> private sale on this forum they invariably say " Continental USA" only.
>>
>> Why...?
>>
>> We Europeans also have PayPal, Visa, Bank Transfers  etc etc so what's the
>> problem please?
>>
>> 
>
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[Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Rose]

Payment certainly isn't a problem with PayPal, but
without a PayPal account it can be problematic.
Foreign ... to the US ... money orders or even bank
checks are extremely difficult to process.  For example,
a check drawn on a Panama bank would have cost
$75 to deposit into her account.

It's also likely related to a general lack of knowledge
about overseas packaging and how to fill out the
customs forms.  The blanks on the forms are small 
and difficult to write in.  There are two forms to be
used, depending on the size of the package and a 
few other variables. 

I do the shipping for Rose and she receives orders
from all over the world, so I've become reasonably 
familiar with the procedure, but it's still a "task".

The average transit time seems to be from two to as 
much as four weeks.  Israel is the exception. It can take 
several months for a package to be delivered there.

Probably more than you wanted to know ...

73! Ken Kopp - K0PP
elecraftcov...@gmail.com
http://tinyurl.com/7lm3m5
 
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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604]

If something goes wrong, it's a lot harder to set things right.  I sold 
a radio into Germany, and never was paid.  If I could recall the 
details, I might have followed up in a few weeks when we're there, but...
73, doug

On 02-Jun-11 16:12, Phil Hystad wrote:
> One reason is that sending a package in CONUS (continental US) is a lot 
> easier and generally cheaper then sending it to other countries or even to 
> Alaska or Hawaii.
>
>
> On Jun 2, 2011, at 9:07 AM, Ray Spreadbury wrote:
>
>> I am intrigued, I've noticed that when various Elecraft rigs are offered for
>> private sale on this forum they invariably say " Continental USA" only.
>>
>> Why...?
>>
>> We Europeans also have PayPal, Visa, Bank Transfers  etc etc so what's the
>> problem please?
>>
>>
>>
>> I just bought a kit&  accessories direct from Elecraft 2 weeks ago, it was
>> delivered within 7 days and they didn't have a problem with selling to
>> Europe.
>>
>>
>>
>> Just interested .
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Ray G3XLG
>>
>> __
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Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Phil Hystad]

One reason is that sending a package in CONUS (continental US) is a lot easier 
and generally cheaper then sending it to other countries or even to Alaska or 
Hawaii.


On Jun 2, 2011, at 9:07 AM, Ray Spreadbury wrote:

> I am intrigued, I've noticed that when various Elecraft rigs are offered for
> private sale on this forum they invariably say " Continental USA" only.
> 
> Why...?
> 
> We Europeans also have PayPal, Visa, Bank Transfers  etc etc so what's the
> problem please?
> 
> 
> 
> I just bought a kit & accessories direct from Elecraft 2 weeks ago, it was
> delivered within 7 days and they didn't have a problem with selling to
> Europe.
> 
> 
> 
> Just interested .
> 
> 73
> 
> Ray G3XLG
> 
> __
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[Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Ray Spreadbury]

I am intrigued, I've noticed that when various Elecraft rigs are offered for
private sale on this forum they invariably say " Continental USA" only.

Why...?

We Europeans also have PayPal, Visa, Bank Transfers  etc etc so what's the
problem please?

 

I just bought a kit & accessories direct from Elecraft 2 weeks ago, it was
delivered within 7 days and they didn't have a problem with selling to
Europe.

 

Just interested .

73

Ray G3XLG

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