Re: [H] Thinkpad T23 dying battery

[Winterlight]

At 08:53 PM 4/5/2006, you wrote:
You could save a lot of money by going to eBay. A quick search revealed a 
brand new OEM battery for around half the price of the generics listed on 
Froogle.


Greg


Thanks, I didn't think of Ebay. 15 bucks for a battery ! Can I trust it not 
to leak, or die right away, or blow up... a crap shoot I guessI just 
read a article in PC World about counterfeit batteries. Still, it is very 
tempting.


Anybody buy a laptop battery off Ebay, any personal experience or 
recommendation.





- Original Message - From: "Winterlight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 10:01 PM
Subject: [H] Thinkpad T23 dying battery


My Thinkpad T23 Li-ion battery is dying. It lasts about 30 minutes.  I 
guess there is no way to "refresh" them, like a NICAD , is there?


First time I had a laptop battery go badthese things are expensive... 
any suggestions on where to buy one?


 Any reason I shouldn't buy a generic on like this
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-47,GGLG:en&q=Thinkpad+T23+Battery

RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible

[Wayne Johnson]

At 10:24 PM 4/5/2006, Chris Reeves typed:

Totally disagree.  By the time you configure BART or whatever to have all
the right drivers (network drivers for say, Nvidia chipset, or new Intel
network drivers) SATA drivers (new Intel, ATI, Nvidia, etc.) and it loads up
all of those things, you can wait a while.

On a decent fast machine, it's not bad, but on a slower machine it's a
virtual eternity.


Try booting one on a machine that doesn't have enough memory & you 
can wait forever. ;-)


Still I would much rather boot a BartPe or XpPe disk CD that remove 
the HD & put it into another machine.  I tried booting the new 
Knoppix 5 DVD on a 2700+ machine & I thought that would never boot up 
but it did eventually.



--+--
   Wayne D. Johnson
Ashland, OH, USA 44805
 

Re: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible

[Wayne Johnson]

At 09:45 PM 4/5/2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] typed:
If I were going to try to clean up a hard drive, my preference would 
be to remove it and attach it to another computer and run it passively.


That's what you're doing when you boot a BartPE or XpPe or Knoppix CD.


--+--
   Wayne D. Johnson
Ashland, OH, USA 44805
 

Re: [H] Is activating XP necessary?

[Wayne Johnson]

At 12:25 AM 4/6/2006, FORC5 typed:

what does VLK stand for ? 1st time hearing that term.


MSFT had a give away of a USB ThumbDrive to OEMs that could answer 4 
or 5 licensing questions correctly & one of them is about VLK. VLK is 
volume licensing but volume licensing is suppose to be used as 
upgrades to existing licenses only.  I had previously submitted that 
link but I don't believe it's valid any longer & I've not gotten the 
USB ThumbDrive yet either but it's one of those things that they'll 
ship out 8 or 10 weeks after you take the quiz so maybe it'll be here 
next week.  I have a couple of other things I'm still waiting for as 
well but nothing I can't live without. I also rec'd notice that the 
April MAPS updates are about to be shipped out.



--+--
   Wayne D. Johnson
Ashland, OH, USA 44805
 

RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible

[FORC5]

received the same email, I wonder if I will get a copy with my partner 
subscription.
FWIW I tried one care and found it not usable and blew it out.
fp

At 01:32 PM 4/5/2006, Wayne Johnson Poked the stick with:

>I also find it interesting that I as a beta tester just rec'd email from MSFT 
>asking me if I want to purchase a one year subscription to their Live OneCare 
>for $20 that covers 3 computers. BTW I'm not violating any NDA as
>
>>There's still time to share the OneCare beta with friends and family. If they 
>>sign up for the beta, they'll also be eligible for the special $19.95 service 
>>subscription in April. There's more info on the 
>>OneCare website 
>>. For those who need no more convincing 
>>and are ready to sign up, you can direct them to the 
>>OneCare beta sign-up 
>>
>
>but you only have til April 30th to sign up.

-- 
Tallyho ! ]:8)
Taglines below !
--
Excellent time to become a missing person.

Re: [H] Is activating XP necessary?

[FORC5]

what does VLK stand for ? 1st time hearing that term.
fp

At 09:12 PM 4/5/2006, warpmedia Poked the stick with:
>There are also VLK versions like I'm using in college right now that do not 
>need to be activated at all. There is no "Corporate" edition, that's a warez 
>term for a VLK version that needs no activation.

-- 
Tallyho ! ]:8)
Taglines below !
--
Excellent time to become a missing person.

Re: [H] Is activating XP necessary?

[FORC5]

every time I have seen this *30 days* message on next reboot got a message 
*must activate to log on*.
maybe I am just lucky.
fp :'(

At 08:18 PM 4/5/2006, Ben Ruset Poked the stick with:
>If you're testing hardware, chances are the build won't be together in 30 
>days, and therefore no need to activate.
>
>FORC5 wrote:
>>welcome to Bill's world
>>I often wonder what places that test hardware all the time do about this, my 
>>guess is a corporate version.
>>fp
>>At 12:29 PM 4/5/2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Poked the stick with:
>>
>>>Had a major computer crash yesterday, ended up losing my main C drive a
>>>Raptor 36G drive. ugh!  
>>>
>>>Anyway, I had to reinstall XP, now I'm getting the message to activate it
>>>within 30 days.  Can I just ignore this or will bad things happen in 30
>>>days?I plan to install the same XP on my new system in a couple of
>>>months or so, will activating it preclude me from using it again on a new
>>>system?
>>>
>>>Is there a way to disable that annoying pop-up window reminder?
>>>
>>>thanks..
>
>-- 
>Tallyho ! ]:8)
>Taglines below !
>--
>Excellent time to become a missing person.

Re: [H] Is activating XP necessary?

[warpmedia]

There are also VLK versions like I'm using in college right now that do 
not need to be activated at all. There is no "Corporate" edition, that's 
a warez term for a VLK version that needs no activation.


Even better we are given access to the MS Academic Alliance which grants 
us free copies of everything MS has with license to use them until we 
cease to be enrolled in the supported programs (AAS Network Admin/MCSE 
in my case). =)


Right now in process of upgrading my home "bench" DC from 2K to 2K3.

MSDN copies are also worth it in test setups since it appears they 
re-activate without problems by calling the automated activation hotline.



Ben Ruset wrote:
If you're testing hardware, chances are the build won't be together in 
30 days, and therefore no need to activate.


FORC5 wrote:

welcome to Bill's world

I often wonder what places that test hardware all the time do about 
this, my guess is a corporate version.

fp

At 12:29 PM 4/5/2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Poked the stick with:


Had a major computer crash yesterday, ended up losing my main C drive a
Raptor 36G drive. ugh! 
Anyway, I had to reinstall XP, now I'm getting the message to 
activate it

within 30 days.  Can I just ignore this or will bad things happen in 30
days?I plan to install the same XP on my new system in a couple of
months or so, will activating it preclude me from using it again on a 
new

system?

Is there a way to disable that annoying pop-up window reminder?

thanks..

Re: [H] Thinkpad T23 dying battery

[Greg Sevart]

You could save a lot of money by going to eBay. A quick search revealed a 
brand new OEM battery for around half the price of the generics listed on 
Froogle.


Greg

- Original Message - 
From: "Winterlight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 10:01 PM
Subject: [H] Thinkpad T23 dying battery


My Thinkpad T23 Li-ion battery is dying. It lasts about 30 minutes.  I 
guess there is no way to "refresh" them, like a NICAD , is there?


First time I had a laptop battery go badthese things are expensive... 
any suggestions on where to buy one?


 Any reason I shouldn't buy a generic on like this
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-47,GGLG:en&q=Thinkpad+T23+Battery

Re: [H] Is activating XP necessary?

[Ben Ruset]

If you're testing hardware, chances are the build won't be together in 
30 days, and therefore no need to activate.


FORC5 wrote:

welcome to Bill's world

I often wonder what places that test hardware all the time do about this, my 
guess is a corporate version.
fp

At 12:29 PM 4/5/2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Poked the stick with:


Had a major computer crash yesterday, ended up losing my main C drive a
Raptor 36G drive. ugh!  


Anyway, I had to reinstall XP, now I'm getting the message to activate it
within 30 days.  Can I just ignore this or will bad things happen in 30
days?I plan to install the same XP on my new system in a couple of
months or so, will activating it preclude me from using it again on a new
system?

Is there a way to disable that annoying pop-up window reminder?

thanks..

[H] Thinkpad T23 dying battery

[Winterlight]

My Thinkpad T23 Li-ion battery is dying. It lasts about 30 minutes.  I 
guess there is no way to "refresh" them, like a NICAD , is there?


First time I had a laptop battery go badthese things are expensive... 
any suggestions on where to buy one?


 Any reason I shouldn't buy a generic on like this
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-47,GGLG:en&q=Thinkpad+T23+Battery

Re: [H] Is activating XP necessary?

[FORC5]

welcome to Bill's world

I often wonder what places that test hardware all the time do about this, my 
guess is a corporate version.
fp

At 12:29 PM 4/5/2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Poked the stick with:

>Had a major computer crash yesterday, ended up losing my main C drive a
>Raptor 36G drive. ugh!  
>
>Anyway, I had to reinstall XP, now I'm getting the message to activate it
>within 30 days.  Can I just ignore this or will bad things happen in 30
>days?I plan to install the same XP on my new system in a couple of
>months or so, will activating it preclude me from using it again on a new
>system?
>
>Is there a way to disable that annoying pop-up window reminder?
>
>thanks..

-- 
Tallyho ! ]:8)
Taglines below !
--
Every huge program has a small program trying to get out.

RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible

[Chris Reeves]

Totally disagree.  By the time you configure BART or whatever to have all
the right drivers (network drivers for say, Nvidia chipset, or new Intel
network drivers) SATA drivers (new Intel, ATI, Nvidia, etc.) and it loads up
all of those things, you can wait a while.

On a decent fast machine, it's not bad, but on a slower machine it's a
virtual eternity.

CW

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christopher Klein
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 9:18 PM
To: 'The Hardware List'
Subject: RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible

That takes way too much time.  Boot from CD and clean it from there.   

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 9:45 PM
To: The Hardware List
Subject: Re: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible


- Original Message -
From: "Wayne Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "The Hardware List" 
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 4:32 PM
Subject: RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible


>
> We're still here. Isn't it funny how MSFT does NOT address booting another

> OS even XP & cleaning these affected HDs?  I've already successfully 
> cleaned bugs with my XpPe disk that I could NOT have

If I were going to try to clean up a hard drive, my preference would be to 
remove it and attach it to another computer and run it passively.

Chuck 

RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible

[Christopher Klein]

That takes way too much time.  Boot from CD and clean it from there.   

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 9:45 PM
To: The Hardware List
Subject: Re: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible


- Original Message -
From: "Wayne Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "The Hardware List" 
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 4:32 PM
Subject: RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible


>
> We're still here. Isn't it funny how MSFT does NOT address booting another

> OS even XP & cleaning these affected HDs?  I've already successfully 
> cleaned bugs with my XpPe disk that I could NOT have

If I were going to try to clean up a hard drive, my preference would be to 
remove it and attach it to another computer and run it passively.

Chuck 

Re: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible

[chuck]

- Original Message - 
From: "Wayne Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "The Hardware List" 
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 4:32 PM
Subject: RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible




We're still here. Isn't it funny how MSFT does NOT address booting another 
OS even XP & cleaning these affected HDs?  I've already successfully 
cleaned bugs with my XpPe disk that I could NOT have


If I were going to try to clean up a hard drive, my preference would be to 
remove it and attach it to another computer and run it passively.


Chuck 

Re: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible

[chuck]

- Original Message - 
From: "Wayne Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "The Hardware List" 
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 3:42 PM
Subject: RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible




Sounds to me like MSFT is trying to scare people into Windows Defender or 
Windows One Care subscriptions to me but either way until MSFT provides a 
decent imaging app such as Ghost I'm not buying it.




Do you have inside information to establish that Windows Vista will be sold 
instead of rented? Nothing is off the table when it comes to Microsoft 
greed. Ten dollars per month will produce lots more revenue than ninety 
dollars flat rate for an operating system, the price of Windows XP Home OEM.


The only reason that Microsoft would not rent Windows to the end user is it 
would put people like Dell who purchase it for around twenty bucks per pop 
on a more level playing field with us smaller OEM's. As long as Dell can buy 
twenty dollar Windows and thirty dollar CPU's, they will remain tops in 
total computer sales.


In the computer business the tail moves the horse, instead of vice versa.

Chuck 

Re: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible

[chuck]

- Original Message - 
From: "Mesdaq, Ali" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "The Hardware List" 
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 2:04 PM
Subject: RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible



Exactly what we were debating a few weeks ago. Where are those "I can
clean any infection" guys at now?



Format Drive C and do a clean install is looking lots better to many of you 
now. I was never a networker nor did I ever deal with Windows NT. I did hear 
that businesses ran Windows NT clean and simple on a small partition, 
keeping their important data on another partition, better yet, that other 
partition being on both the workstation computer and the server, making 2 
data storage partitions. They had only a few applications to reinstall. When 
Windows went bad, they simply formatted Drive C, reinstalled Windows and the 
few applications and were back in business. My point is the format and clean 
install is more effective, even if it takes 5 seconds longer than trying to 
clean up a C Drive. Most realize that formatting and reinstalling is best 
once 5 hours of hard works is to no avail.


Chuck

RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware BecomingImpossible

[CW]

Yeah, I got the same crap.  I'm pretty unhappy with too many of the functions, 
the lack of ability to customize it (ie, tell it not to scan folders; not to 
run tune-up, etc.)

CW

-Original message-
From: Wayne Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 14:34:17 -0500
To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com
Subject: RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware BecomingImpossible

> At 02:04 PM 4/5/2006, Mesdaq, Ali typed:
> >Exactly what we were debating a few weeks ago. Where are those "I can
> >clean any infection" guys at now?
> 
> We're still here. Isn't it funny how MSFT does NOT address booting 
> another OS even XP & cleaning these affected HDs?  I've already 
> successfully cleaned bugs with my XpPe disk that I could NOT have 
> cleaned without booting another OS such as the Bagle & Netsky 
> variants that shuts down anything with the AV name in it within 15 
> seconds such as the AV website so one can not do an online scan or 
> allowing one to update their AV defs. Also we "can clean any 
> infection guys" have never said that a wipe was never needed just 
> that it's rarely needed. I've always been perturbed that MSFT has 
> never provided a decent backup with ASR [automatic system recover] 
> for Xp Home users.
> 
> I also find it interesting that I as a beta tester just rec'd email 
> from MSFT asking me if I want to purchase a one year subscription to 
> their Live OneCare for $20 that covers 3 computers. BTW I'm not 
> violating any NDA as
> 
> >There's still time to share the OneCare beta with friends and 
> >family. If they sign up for the beta, they'll also be eligible for 
> >the special $19.95 service subscription in April. There's more info 
> >on the OneCare website 
> >. For those who need no more 
> >convincing and are ready to sign up, you can direct them to the 
> >OneCare beta 
> >sign-up 
> 
> but you only have til April 30th to sign up.
> 
> >Danseglio said the success of social engineering attacks is a sign 
> >that the weakest link in malware defense is "human stupidity."
> 
> >According to Danseglio, . "The easy way to deal with this is 
> >to think about prevention. Preventing an infection is far easier 
> >than cleaning up,"
> 
> 
> ---+--
>a Windows Xp based
> Diagnostic & Recovery CD
>    
> 
> 

RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible

[Wayne Johnson]

At 02:04 PM 4/5/2006, Mesdaq, Ali typed:

Exactly what we were debating a few weeks ago. Where are those "I can
clean any infection" guys at now?


We're still here. Isn't it funny how MSFT does NOT address booting 
another OS even XP & cleaning these affected HDs?  I've already 
successfully cleaned bugs with my XpPe disk that I could NOT have 
cleaned without booting another OS such as the Bagle & Netsky 
variants that shuts down anything with the AV name in it within 15 
seconds such as the AV website so one can not do an online scan or 
allowing one to update their AV defs. Also we "can clean any 
infection guys" have never said that a wipe was never needed just 
that it's rarely needed. I've always been perturbed that MSFT has 
never provided a decent backup with ASR [automatic system recover] 
for Xp Home users.


I also find it interesting that I as a beta tester just rec'd email 
from MSFT asking me if I want to purchase a one year subscription to 
their Live OneCare for $20 that covers 3 computers. BTW I'm not 
violating any NDA as


There's still time to share the OneCare beta with friends and 
family. If they sign up for the beta, they'll also be eligible for 
the special $19.95 service subscription in April. There's more info 
on the OneCare website 
. For those who need no more 
convincing and are ready to sign up, you can direct them to the 
OneCare beta 
sign-up 


but you only have til April 30th to sign up.

Danseglio said the success of social engineering attacks is a sign 
that the weakest link in malware defense is "human stupidity."


According to Danseglio, . "The easy way to deal with this is 
to think about prevention. Preventing an infection is far easier 
than cleaning up,"



---+--
  a Windows Xp based
Diagnostic & Recovery CD
  

RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible

[Mesdaq, Ali]

As long as there are operating systems that allow people to run
applications as ring 0 there will always be social engineering tricks to
get a system so messed up re-imaging will be necessary. 

Supposedly the next version of MS will not allow anymore ring 0 apps
unless certified by MS. 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thane
Sherrington (S)
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 12:31 PM
To: The Hardware List
Subject: RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming
Impossible

At 03:04 PM 05/04/2006, Mesdaq, Ali wrote:
>Exactly what we were debating a few weeks ago. Where are those "I can
>clean any infection" guys at now?

I'm still not convinced that the only response to any infection is a 
total reinstall.  But I haven't read the article completely yet, so 
perhaps I'll come around.  But if MS is right, then it's time for 
everyone, and I mean everyone, to abandon ship and switch to Apple or 
*nix now because if the maker of the product says it's unsafe and 
unfixable, then we are nuts to be using it.

T 

Re: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible

[warpmedia]

Just because a car can do 100MPH doesn't mean you blame the manufacture 
for diver incompetence. If you don't change your oil (ie have knowledge) 
it's your fault when you get that repair bill or end up stranded in the 
middle of nowhere.


People need to learn proper habits, period. I welcome a time when 
portrayed in SciFi like Star trek, we all understand computer operation 
& security.


CW wrote:

I think what he's saying is by default, new accounts within Windows XP 
non-networked are set to have full priveleges.

Re: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible

[warpmedia]

Uh huh, and in a few years well be saying the same about them also.

It's the nature of the beast with programmable systems and 
programmer/companies more concerned with moving widgets than getting 
them bug free. Granted MS has become the poster child for this, but 
that's what happens to the product in the spotlight.


Look at it as acceptable risk vs. profit for them. Lots of companies 
work this way and Very few ever get burnt enough to be forced to correct 
the model in favor if doing the right thing. Worse, if they do, someone 
claims they are stealing money from someone else who offers a product to 
compensate for the flaws.


Think I'm wrong? Look into how the EU wants to charge MS with 
anti-competitive practices for including anti-spyware for free.


Damned if you do, damned if you don't.



Thane Sherrington (S) wrote:

At 03:04 PM 05/04/2006, Mesdaq, Ali wrote:

Exactly what we were debating a few weeks ago. Where are those "I can
clean any infection" guys at now?


I'm still not convinced that the only response to any infection is a 
total reinstall.  But I haven't read the article completely yet, so 
perhaps I'll come around.  But if MS is right, then it's time for 
everyone, and I mean everyone, to abandon ship and switch to Apple or 
*nix now because if the maker of the product says it's unsafe and 
unfixable, then we are nuts to be using it.


T

Re: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible

[warpmedia]

Starting with DOS, then Win9x as what the customer base is used to?

Point is that bugs & usability are the "root" culprit. Any user friendly 
OS is going to have at least a similar problem.


Even the touted "exploit & virus free" Mac's are finally get attention 
for the black hats and my guess will prove to have many flaws also.


In Psychology they have a label *which escapes me* for looking back at 
things and saying cause & effect are obvious (common called 20/20 
hindsight?). Exploits are as old as the computer and will never go away 
given the growing complexity of software.


I do like how IE on 2003 defaults to restricted for each new domain and 
allows you to then trust it. Very much like how I was running it before 
I switched to FF.


Thane Sherrington (S) wrote:

At 07:04 AM 05/04/2006, warpmedia wrote:

LOL, bash away boys, the next popular OS will have the same issues.


Yeah, how was MS to know that running an OS with all users as root would 
be bad idea?


T

RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible

[Wayne Johnson]

At 03:31 PM 4/5/2006, Thane Sherrington (S) typed:
I'm still not convinced that the only response to any infection is a 
total reinstall.  But I haven't read the article completely yet, so 
perhaps I'll come around.  But if MS is right, then it's time for 
everyone, and I mean everyone, to abandon ship and switch to Apple 
or *nix now because if the maker of the product says it's unsafe and 
unfixable, then we are nuts to be using it.


Sounds to me like MSFT is trying to scare people into Windows 
Defender or Windows One Care subscriptions to me but either way until 
MSFT provides a decent imaging app such as Ghost I'm not buying it.



"Social engineering is a very, very effective technique. We have 
statistics that show significant infection rates for the social 
engineering malware. Phishing is a major problem because there 
really is no patch for human stupidity," he said.


Just because large corporations may have a problem with hiring idiots 
does that mean the bright people here have anything to worry about. ;-)



--+--
   Wayne D. Johnson
Ashland, OH, USA 44805
 

RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible

[Thane Sherrington (S)]

At 03:04 PM 05/04/2006, Mesdaq, Ali wrote:

Exactly what we were debating a few weeks ago. Where are those "I can
clean any infection" guys at now?


I'm still not convinced that the only response to any infection is a 
total reinstall.  But I haven't read the article completely yet, so 
perhaps I'll come around.  But if MS is right, then it's time for 
everyone, and I mean everyone, to abandon ship and switch to Apple or 
*nix now because if the maker of the product says it's unsafe and 
unfixable, then we are nuts to be using it.


T 

[H] Is activating XP necessary?

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Had a major computer crash yesterday, ended up losing my main C drive a
Raptor 36G drive. ugh!  

Anyway, I had to reinstall XP, now I'm getting the message to activate it
within 30 days.  Can I just ignore this or will bad things happen in 30
days?I plan to install the same XP on my new system in a couple of
months or so, will activating it preclude me from using it again on a new
system?

Is there a way to disable that annoying pop-up window reminder?

thanks..

RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible

[Mesdaq, Ali]

Exactly what we were debating a few weeks ago. Where are those "I can
clean any infection" guys at now?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Winterlight
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 5:03 PM
To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
Subject: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1945808,00.asp?kc=ewnws040406dtx1k0
000599

Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible
April 4, 2006

By  Ryan Naraine
LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla.-In a rare discussion about the severity of the 
Windows malware scourge, a Microsoft security official said businesses 
should consider investing in an automated process to wipe hard drives
and 
reinstall operating systems as a practical way to recover from malware 
infestation.

"When you are dealing with rootkits and some advanced spyware programs,
the 
only solution is to rebuild from scratch. In some cases, there really is
no 
way to recover without nuking the systems from orbit," Mike Danseglio, 
program manager in the Security Solutions group at Microsoft, said in a 
presentation at the InfoSec World conference here.

Offensive rootkits, which are used hide malware programs and maintain an

undetectable presence on an infected machine, have become the weapon of 
choice for virus and spyware writers and, because they often use kernel 
hooks to avoid detection, Danseglio said IT administrators may never
know 
if all traces of a rootkit have been successfully removed.

He cited a recent instance where an unnamed branch of the U.S.
government 
struggled with malware infestations on more than 2,000 client machines.
"In 
that case, it was so severe that trying to recover was meaningless. They

did not have an automated process to wipe and rebuild the systems, so it

became a burden. They had to design a process real fast," Danseglio
added.

Danseglio, who delivered two separate presentations at the
conference-one 
on threats and countermeasures to defend against malware infestations in

Windows, and the other on the frightening world on Windows rootkits-said

anti-virus software is getting better at detecting and removing the
latest 
threats, but for some sophisticated forms of malware, he conceded that
the 
cleanup process is "just way too hard."

Microsoft says stealth rootkits are bombarding Windows XP SP2 machines. 
Click here to read more.

"We've seen the self-healing malware that actually detects that you're 
trying to get rid of it. You remove it, and the next time you look in
that 
directory, it's sitting there. It can simply reinstall itself," he said.


"Detection is difficult, and remediation is often impossible," Danseglio

declared. "If it doesn't crash your system or cause your system to
freeze, 
how do you know it's there? The answer is you just don't know. Lots of 
times, you never see the infection occur in real time, and you don't see

the malware lingering or running in the background."

He recommended using PepiMK Software's SpyBot Search & Destroy, Mark 
Russinovich's RootkitRevealer and Microsoft's own Windows Defender, all 
free utilities that help with malware detection and cleanup, and urged
CIOs 
to take a defense-in-depth approach to preventing infestations.

Are virtual machine rootkits the next big threat? Click here to read
more.

Danseglio said malicious hackers are conducting targeted attacks that
are 
"stealthy and effective" and warned that the for-profit motive is much
more 
serious than even the destructive network worms of the past. "In 2006,
the 
attackers want to pay the rent. They don't want to write a worm that 
destroys your hardware. They want to assimilate your computers and use
them 
to make money.

"At Microsoft, we are fielding 2,000 attacks per hour. We are a constant

target, and you have to assume your Internet-facing service is also a
big 
target," Danseglio said.

Next Page: Human stupidity.

Danseglio said the success of social engineering attacks is a sign that
the 
weakest link in malware defense is "human stupidity."

"Social engineering is a very, very effective technique. We have
statistics 
that show significant infection rates for the social engineering
malware. 
Phishing is a major problem because there really is no patch for human 
stupidity," he said.

Ziff Davis Media eSeminars invite: Is your enterprise network truly
secure? 
Join us April 11 at 4 p.m. ET as Akonix demonstrates best practices for 
neutralizing threats and securing your network.

The most recent statistics from Microsoft's anti-malware engineering
team 
confirm Danseglio's contention. In February alone, the company's free 
Malicious Software Removal Tool detected a social engineering worm
called 
Win32/Alcan on more than 250,000 unique machines.


According to Danseglio, user education goes a long way to mitigating the

threat from social engineering, but in companies where staff turnover is

high, he said a company may never recoup that investme

Re: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible

[CW]

I think what he's saying is by default, new accounts within Windows XP 
non-networked are set to have full priveleges.

-Original message-
From: "Hayes Elkins" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 08:21:21 -0500
To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
Subject: Re: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible

> 2001 called
> 
> I dont even log in with an administrator account unless I have to install 
> something. One reason *nix boxes are not compromised as much is because this 
> practice is beaten into your head from the get go. 
> never_log_in_as_root_unless_you_must
> 
> 
> >From: "Thane Sherrington (S)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: The Hardware List 
> >To: The Hardware List 
> >Subject: Re: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming
> >Impossible
> >Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 08:45:56 -0300
> >
> >At 07:04 AM 05/04/2006, warpmedia wrote:
> >>LOL, bash away boys, the next popular OS will have the same issues.
> >
> >Yeah, how was MS to know that running an OS with all users as root would be 
> >bad idea?
> >
> >T
> >
> 
> 
> 

Re: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible

[Hayes Elkins]

2001 called

I dont even log in with an administrator account unless I have to install 
something. One reason *nix boxes are not compromised as much is because this 
practice is beaten into your head from the get go. 
never_log_in_as_root_unless_you_must




From: "Thane Sherrington (S)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: The Hardware List 
To: The Hardware List 
Subject: Re: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming
Impossible

Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 08:45:56 -0300

At 07:04 AM 05/04/2006, warpmedia wrote:

LOL, bash away boys, the next popular OS will have the same issues.


Yeah, how was MS to know that running an OS with all users as root would be 
bad idea?


T

[H] Work Orders

[Chris Shaw]

Do some of you techies have a work order that you wouldn't mind sharing?? I 
have one that is in bad need of updating. I would like to see some others to 
get some ideas on design.

Thanks!
-- 
C L Shaw <>< 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Today is a moment for you to clip yet another strand from 
the rope of earth, so that when he returns you won't be tied up.

Re: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible

[Thane Sherrington (S)]

At 07:04 AM 05/04/2006, warpmedia wrote:

LOL, bash away boys, the next popular OS will have the same issues.


Yeah, how was MS to know that running an OS with all users as root 
would be bad idea?


T 

Re: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible

[GP]

As Microsoft's guy, I already told you "We only deliver what you need, but 
it's up to you because you're the one to choose to do, so it's your own risk"


You are familiar with ir, are you guys :lol

At 05:04 PM 4/5/2006, warpmedia wrote:

LOL, bash away boys, the next popular OS will have the same issues.


Jin-Wei Tioh wrote:

At 08:12 PM 4/4/2006, you wrote:

And don't forget to include the Geniuses from Redmond that gave us the 
fertile
ground of their security-hole ridden OS that made all this possible in 
the first

place...

Bill

Heh... that too :P
I guess the blame breaks down to, what? 80% - 20%?
80% - MS's fault
20% - Popularity of OS
-- JW



--
Garind P
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Visit http://www.maludong.com
"oc ur mobo not urself or anybody else"

Re: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible

[warpmedia]

LOL, bash away boys, the next popular OS will have the same issues.


Jin-Wei Tioh wrote:

At 08:12 PM 4/4/2006, you wrote:

And don't forget to include the Geniuses from Redmond that gave us the 
fertile
ground of their security-hole ridden OS that made all this possible in 
the first

place...

Bill


Heh... that too :P
I guess the blame breaks down to, what? 80% - 20%?
80% - MS's fault
20% - Popularity of OS

--
JW