[HOT] Validation Friday Webinar!

[russell . deffner]

Hello everyone,

 

Just a reminder that you don't want to miss tomorrow's #ValidationFriday
Webinar, RSVP on Eventbrite for details:
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/hot-community-webinar-validation-training-ticke
ts-42506916331 

 

Happy Mapping!

=Russ

 

Russell Deffner

Member - Community Working Group

Email:   russell.deff...@hotosm.org

OSM/Skype: russdeffner

Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT) 

  Web |
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[HOT] Validation on projects

[john whelan]

Currently we seem to have a number of projects that are 95% mapped and 20%
validated requesting validation.

If you validate the project from the start you catch the errors mappers
make early on which means you get better quality work overall and less time
is spent reworking problem areas. Prevention really is cheaper than fixing.

The faster you feed feedback to the mappers the better the response.  After
a month they will have forgotten all about it anyway.  So validating within
a couple of days and ideally within 24 hrs gives the best results.

Cleaning up a month or so after the event is not the nicest task to do and
cleaning up more than need be is even less pleasant for validators.
Although I understand there are different points of view and some
validators even like cleaning up buildings when they have been grouped
together as one big one a year after the mapping but being an unsociable
person I have yet to meet one.

If you're running a project try to get a validator attached to the project
early.

Cheerio John
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Re: [HOT] Validation gossip

[maning sambale]

Hi John,

Happy to know someone is taking care of fixing Africa highways.  FWIW,
we use osmlint [0] to detect common geometry errors, these detected
errors are then fed into to-fix [1].  Some of the detectors are
related to highways [2].

Happy to support people or teams in Africa if this is worthwhile to do.

[0] https://github.com/osmlab/osmlint
[1] https://osmlab.github.io/to-fix
[2] https://github.com/osmlab/osmlint/blob/master/validators.md


On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 5:55 AM, john whelan  wrote:
> It's not validation in the conventional sense but there seems to be some
> sort of system that detects crossing highways I suspect by using overpass.
> It was developed in Europe for crossing highways there but has now been
> extended to cover other places and I'm not sure of the name of it.
>
> Anyway rat_run I hope I have the user name right, has been hard at work
> fixing highways in Africa.  I don't think they are a HOT mapper they just
> clean up the map.  I certainly seem to often find they have fixed the map a
> few hours before I get there using the daily dump loaded into JOSM.
>
> So if you are hoping to use OpenStreetMap for routing in Africa it looks as
> if things are improving.
>
> Cheerio John
>
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-- 
cheers,
maning
--
"Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
https://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
http://twitter.com/maningsambale
--

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[HOT] Validation gossip

[john whelan]

It's not validation in the conventional sense but there seems to be some
sort of system that detects crossing highways I suspect by using overpass.
It was developed in Europe for crossing highways there but has now been
extended to cover other places and I'm not sure of the name of it.

Anyway rat_run I hope I have the user name right, has been hard at work
fixing highways in Africa.  I don't think they are a HOT mapper they just
clean up the map.  I certainly seem to often find they have fixed the map a
few hours before I get there using the daily dump loaded into JOSM.

So if you are hoping to use OpenStreetMap for routing in Africa it looks as
if things are improving.

Cheerio John
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Re: [HOT] Using HOT validation styles in JOSM

[john whelan]

Interesting perhaps this is the way to pick out buildings=whatever when
they cover more than one building.

At the moment I think I'm happy with HDM.

Thanks John

On 12 July 2016 at 03:04, Nick Allen  wrote:

> Hi Laura & John,
>
> HDM is another very good style, but if you wish to look at the HOT
> Validate style (I frequently switch between 3 or 4 different styles
> depending on what I am currently doing), the process is quite simple for
> the initial setup, and even easier to switch once you have installed it.
>
> Go to JOSM preferences (you may need to be in Expert mode),
> 3rd icon down for Map projection & data interpretation,
> Tab for Map Paint styles,
> Click on the + symbol far right, and in the two boxes that appear enter
> HOT-Validate
>
> https://github.com/DisasterNetDOTOrg/HOT-Osm-Validation/archive/master.zip
>
> Make sure there is a tick in the box for 'active'
>
> You may have to restart JOSM - not sure on that one.
>
> There is more info at https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Styles
> & https://github.com/MarkCupitt/HOT-Osm-Validation
>
> Once you have installed a paint style, & loaded some OSM data, you can
> switch between the paint styles by clicking on 'view' and 'map paint
> styles'.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Regards
>
> Nick
>
>
> On 11/07/16 23:09, john whelan wrote:
>
> HDM is what I use normally.  JOSM looks a bit odd if I map locally but it
> works well for Africa.
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On 11 July 2016 at 16:53, Laura O'Grady  wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I’m not sure if this is the right place to post these questions. I’m a
>> first time validator and I’ve been following the instructions at:
>>
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Tasking_Manager/Validating_data
>>
>> I wanted to add the JOSM Style 'HOT-OSM-Validation' as instructed at the
>> above link. I followed the detailed instructions for map styles located
>> here:
>>
>> https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Styles
>>
>> The ‘'HOT-OSM-Validation” no longer appears on the list map paint styles
>> so I added it from GitHub (
>> 
>> https://github.com/MarkCupitt/HOT-Osm-Validation). Then I noticed “"HDM
>> by HOT" on the list in JOSM and also added it.
>>
>> Which is the proper tool to use?
>>
>> Also when I close/re-open JOSM I had to add HDM by HOT again. Is there a
>> way to get this option to “stick”?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Laura
>>
>> Laura O’Grady
>> la...@lauraogrady.ca
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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Re: [HOT] Using HOT validation styles in JOSM

[Nick Allen]

Hi Laura & John,

HDM is another very good style, but if you wish to look at the HOT 
Validate style (I frequently switch between 3 or 4 different styles 
depending on what I am currently doing), the process is quite simple for 
the initial setup, and even easier to switch once you have installed it.


Go to JOSM preferences (you may need to be in Expert mode),
3rd icon down for Map projection & data interpretation,
Tab for Map Paint styles,
Click on the + symbol far right, and in the two boxes that appear enter
HOT-Validate
https://github.com/DisasterNetDOTOrg/HOT-Osm-Validation/archive/master.zip

Make sure there is a tick in the box for 'active'

You may have to restart JOSM - not sure on that one.

There is more info at https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Styles
& https://github.com/MarkCupitt/HOT-Osm-Validation

Once you have installed a paint style, & loaded some OSM data, you can 
switch between the paint styles by clicking on 'view' and 'map paint 
styles'.


Hope this helps

Regards

Nick

On 11/07/16 23:09, john whelan wrote:
HDM is what I use normally.  JOSM looks a bit odd if I map locally but 
it works well for Africa.


Cheerio John

On 11 July 2016 at 16:53, Laura O'Grady > wrote:


Hi all,

I’m not sure if this is the right place to post these questions.
I’m a first time validator and I’ve been following the
instructions at:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Tasking_Manager/Validating_data

I wanted to add the JOSM Style 'HOT-OSM-Validation' as instructed
at the above link. I followed the detailed instructions for map
styles located here:

https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Styles

The ‘'HOT-OSM-Validation” no longer appears on the list map paint
styles so I added it from GitHub
(https://github.com/MarkCupitt/HOT-Osm-Validation). Then I noticed
“"HDM by HOT" on the list in JOSM and also added it.

Which is the proper tool to use?

Also when I close/re-open JOSM I had to add HDM by HOT again. Is
there a way to get this option to “stick”?

Thanks.

Laura

Laura O’Grady
la...@lauraogrady.ca 




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Re: [HOT] Using HOT validation styles in JOSM

[john whelan]

HDM is what I use normally.  JOSM looks a bit odd if I map locally but it
works well for Africa.

Cheerio John

On 11 July 2016 at 16:53, Laura O'Grady  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I’m not sure if this is the right place to post these questions. I’m a
> first time validator and I’ve been following the instructions at:
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Tasking_Manager/Validating_data
>
> I wanted to add the JOSM Style 'HOT-OSM-Validation' as instructed at the
> above link. I followed the detailed instructions for map styles located
> here:
>
> https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Styles
>
> The ‘'HOT-OSM-Validation” no longer appears on the list map paint styles
> so I added it from GitHub (
> https://github.com/MarkCupitt/HOT-Osm-Validation). Then I noticed “"HDM
> by HOT" on the list in JOSM and also added it.
>
> Which is the proper tool to use?
>
> Also when I close/re-open JOSM I had to add HDM by HOT again. Is there a
> way to get this option to “stick”?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Laura
>
> Laura O’Grady
> la...@lauraogrady.ca
>
>
>
>
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[HOT] Validation for new mappers mapping Tanzania Task 1788

[Janet Chapman]

There are a lot of new inexperienced mappers mapping task 
http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/1788  If there are any experienced mappers who 
are able to validate their work and give them feedback to ensure they are on 
the right track we would be extremely grateful.  Many thanks, Janet

-Original Message-
From: hot-requ...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:hot-requ...@openstreetmap.org] 
Sent: 28 May 2016 13:00
To: hot@openstreetmap.org
Subject: HOT Digest, Vol 75, Issue 31

Send HOT mailing list submissions to
hot@openstreetmap.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: 
Contents of HOT digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Sri Lanka Floods Activation: Final Task (1934) (Robert Banick)


--

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 27 May 2016 13:44:31 +
From: Robert Banick 
To: hot 
Cc: Mikel Maron 
Subject: [HOT] Sri Lanka Floods Activation: Final Task (1934)
Message-ID:

[HOT] Validation: Could one validator volunteer to give feedback to new validators directly for us?

[Blake Girardot HOT/OSM]

Greetings,

There have been a lot of new mappers and validators helping with Sri
Lanka and that is great!!! We really really need crowds.

Flood's crisis times are extended and they cover large areas, the
mapping we are providing is unprecedented housing detail over a very
large area, giving DMC an amazing tool in their planning all aspects
of their response. So, we still need lots of mappings going above and
beyond to get this AOI done and done right.

Some of the new validators could use some coaching on giving positive
feedback, being supportive and encouraging and just fixing or
finishing things if it is just a few.

I have a list :) Which is great.

Much like positive feedback on new mapping early really helps, new
feedback on validating could really help too. In a lot of ways.

Would anyone volunteer to engage with these new validators and offer
some guidance? As I said, I have a short list, very short now and if I
could pass you any others I come across that would be awsome.

Cheers,
Blake

Blake Girardot
Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team
Vice President, HOT Board of Directors
skype: jblakegirardot
HOT Core Team Contact: i...@hotosm.org

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Re: [HOT] Validation support for mapathons

[Janet Chapman]

If there are any validators able to help out with this mapathon for Tanzania 
we'd be very grateful 
https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/osm-triple-mapping-party-dar-es-salaam-london-vilnius-tickets-22109616458
ThanksJanet

 Janet Chapman - Campaigns Manager and Project Officer
http://hiaragirlpower.blogspot.com/
TANZANIA DEVELOPMENT TRUSTRegistered Charity no 270462Every pound given to TDT 
goes directly to projects in Tanzaniawww.TanzDevTrust.org 


> From: hot-requ...@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: HOT Digest, Vol 74, Issue 4
> To: hot@openstreetmap.org
> Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 12:00:07 +
> 
> Send HOT mailing list submissions to
>   hot@openstreetmap.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>   https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>   hot-requ...@openstreetmap.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>   hot-ow...@openstreetmap.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of HOT digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>1. Re: Request to those organising a maperthon. -, validation
>   support (Martin Noblecourt)
>2. Subject: Re: Request to those organising a maperthon. -
>   validation support (Andrew Patterson)
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 09:59:14 +0200
> From: Martin Noblecourt 
> To: hot@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [HOT] Request to those organising a maperthon. -,
>   validation support
> Message-ID: <57021ed2.8020...@cartong.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I actually like your last idea Blake!
> I understand how it can be frustrating for validators like John to see loads 
> of new mappers do errors on some projects, we're trying to do our best in 
> capacity building when running mapathons but mistakes are always possible.
> The closest we can put the validator to the new mapper is the best in my 
> opinion: ideally in the same room (which is why we target to get validators 
> during mapathons), or else simultaneously (or almost) if the validators are 
> not there... so a way to identify the "main" validators for a task would 
> indeed be interesting. Maybe I'm putting the cart before the wheels but 
> having a way for people to "register" as validator to a project could be 
> interesting for the projects managers? (and then a button "send a message to 
> all validators" on which we can notify of upcoming mapathons :-) )
> 
> Finally, let's not forget that mapathons are not only a great way to bring 
> new contributors but also to create awareness on OSM amongst people that are 
> not familiar with it, including NGO workers and local communities, so it 
> ultimately servers the purpose of the HOT community of bringing data to the 
> people needing it :-)
> 
> Best regards.
> 
> Martin
> 
> 
> Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 17:33:10 +0200
> From: Blake Girardot
> To: Mike Thompson, john whelan
>   
> Cc:"hot@openstreetmap.org"  
> Subject: Re: [HOT] Request to those organising a maperthon. -
>   validation support
> Message-ID:<56fe94b6.2040...@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> We do have an unused "validation" email group that was created with the
> idea that people who were available and interested in doing validations
> could share ideas, questions, tips, etc
> 
> And people who were running mapathons could easily notify people who
> liked to do validation that they were running a mapathon and could use
> some validation help during that time (not all mapathons need additional
> validators)
> 
> I am happy to dust it off and make it easy to join and send
> notifications too and make anyone who is interested a manager of the
> email group.
> 
> It does not quite address Mike's question as to how to know someone(s)
> are active and committed to validations on a particular project. But it
> could help with that if people who were doing validations for a project
> sent a notice to the group with an informative subject line like
> "Project 1234 has validators dedicated to it"
> 
> Another option for Mike's question is for people who are making an
> effort to validate a project contacted the project creator and put a
> note in a box at the bottom of the instructions or description that said
> something like "This project has active validators, please send a notice
> to the validators list if you would like a review of your mapping for an
> event or individually"
> 
> Anyway, kind of over complicated I know, but some ideas.
> 
> cheers
> blake
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 12:17:55 +0100
> From: Andrew Patterson 
> To: Blake Girardot 

Re: [HOT] Validation

[Steve Bower]

I added this to the relevant GitHub issue [1], which is currently being
addressed.

~~Steve

[1] https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager2/issues/401


On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 5:17 AM, Andrew Patterson 
wrote:

> I like Daniel's "Start Mapping" and "Stop Mapping".  The discussion seems
> to be evolving in the right direction as far as the text is concerned - but
> may I also mention the layout.  The few times I have hit the "Mark Task is
> Done" button, I have been in a hurry and had been aiming for the "Unlock"
> button immediately to its left.  Is there a need for two unlock buttons
> however they are labelled? - the higher button is well placed and has
> nothing close to it to add to my confusion !
>
> Andrew
>
> --
> Andrew Patterson
>
> The information contained in this e-mail and any
> files transmitted with it is confidential and intended for the addressee
> only.
>
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[HOT] Validation

[Andrew Patterson]

I like Daniel's "Start Mapping" and "Stop Mapping".  The discussion seems
to be evolving in the right direction as far as the text is concerned - but
may I also mention the layout.  The few times I have hit the "Mark Task is
Done" button, I have been in a hurry and had been aiming for the "Unlock"
button immediately to its left.  Is there a need for two unlock buttons
however they are labelled? - the higher button is well placed and has
nothing close to it to add to my confusion !

Andrew

-- 
Andrew Patterson

The information contained in this e-mail and any
files transmitted with it is confidential and intended for the addressee
only.
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Re: [HOT] Validation

[Jarmo Kivekäs]

I've just submitted a pull request on github[1] for the reworded buttons.

The labels proposed in the pull request are Start mapping, Stop
mapping, and Submit for review since the consensus seemed to settle
on those options.

[1]: https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager2/pull/678

-- Jarmo

On 30.08.2015 20:02, Dale Kunce wrote:
 I like the start mapping/stop mapping names. I always thought unlock was a
 bit weird.
 
 @susan since the TM is a project in github feel free to file an issue on
 the repo and take a shot at fixing the labels in the code.
 
 https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager2
 
 On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Jarmo Kivekäs jarmo.kive...@guttula.com
 wrote:
 

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Re: [HOT] Validation

[Martin Dittus]

A further consideration: the terms should express a sense of _why_ we’re asking 
people to press these buttons. The technical “check in/out” hints at this, 
although it is likely not universally understood, and might not easily 
translate.

Do we explain our coordination workflow anywhere? If we have some confidence 
that people have seen that explanation before they are asked to “start”, then 
button labelling will become more straightforward. There’s less burden on the 
button to explain a fundamental workflow in 2-3 words.

It could be as simple as adding a sentence above the buttons.

Although 2-3 words that label the button *and* explain the process at the same 
time would of course be the most elegant option :)

m.


 On 30 Aug 2015, at 12:06, Pierre GIRAUD pierre.gir...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Also please remember that the tool is translated in other languages.
 On my side, I don't know how to translate check in/out in french. It
 depends on the situation. When I'm at the airport checking in
 luggages, or at a hotel checking in to get my room's keys, I won't use
 the same words.
 
 On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 2:52 AM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote:
 check in /out might be considered a regional dialect, you have to consider
 the audience and their level of English, I think keep it as simple and as
 clear as possible.
 
 Cheerio John
 
 On 29 August 2015 at 20:15, Denis Carriere carriere.de...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 I'm liking check in  check out, I feel terminology is more commonly
 used.
 
 Also ethically the words start work doesn't look as good as button vs.
 check in.
 
 My personal opinion, +1 on check in  check out
 
 ~~
 Denis Carriere
 GIS Project Manager
 Twitter: @DenisCarriere
 OSM: DenisCarriere
 Email: carriere.de...@gmail.com
 
 On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 4:12 PM, Suzan Reed su...@suzanreed.com wrote:
 
 Would 'start work' and 'stop work' be clear to all people?
 
 Suzan
 Sent from my phone. Please forgive errors.
 
 
 
 On August 29, 2015 11:46:55 AM Jarmo Kivekäs jarmo.kive...@guttula.com
 wrote:
 
 Hi!
 
 There has been some related discussion in a github issue[1] about this
 last October.
 
 I rather like the Stop working on task alternative that is suggested
 instead of the Unlock button in that issue. Especially since currently
 the button to lock a task says Start mapping. There is more obvious
 connection between start/stop than start/unlock.
 
 Checking in and checking out content is probably a strange concept to
 many. I don't think it's an improvement over locking and unlocking.
 
 Submit for review is a definitive improvement over Mark as done. It
 should be implemented.
 
 I've played around a little and made the changes I like the best in a
 local copy of the tasking manager (screenshot in attachment). I'll
 implement the changes and make a pull request if we come to an
 agreement.
 
 -- jarmo
 
 [1] https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager2/issues/401
 
 On 29.08.2015 05:22, Jim Smith wrote:
 
 I like the idea of renaming the 'mark as done' button to 'submit for
 review'. Little tweaks like that can bring clarity to those starting out.
 Also Suzan suggested that the “lock” “unlock” function be renamed to 
 “Check
 out” and “check in. That would make a big difference as well.
 
 I don't want to be too overenthusiastic  but is there any reason not to
 make those two improvements? If no objection, can they be done soon?
 
 Jim
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Martin Dittus [mailto:mar...@dekstop.de]
 Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 7:44 AM
 To: David Toy d...@vidtoy.co.uk
 Cc: hot hot@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: Re: [HOT] Validation
 
 As I’m going through the comments again (here and on my diary post) I’m
 starting to realise how important it is to give feedback to newcomers.
 Without it, few people will ever feel confident about their 
 contributions.
 
 In many cases it probably doesn’t even need to be feedback from an
 expert — it could be a comment from someone with similar experience 
 levels.
 A second pair of eyes.
 
 An important part of this is being able to ask someone for a second
 opinion. At a mapathon that’s easy, but where do remote mappers go?
 
 m.
 
 
 On 24 Aug 2015, at 19:00, David Toy d...@vidtoy.co.uk wrote:
 
 Hi Jarmo. Welcome!
 
 My introduction/onboarding to HOT was almost identical to Jarmo's -
 and I can relate very clearly to all the points he has raised. I suspect
 that there are a few more lurkers on this list who will be similar.
 
 Pierre G's document suggests renaming the 'mark as done' button to
 'submit for review'.
 
 A simplification of terms / altered workflow would have helped me
 initially. Taking the example of the done button, 'submit for review'
 implies that:
 - a) it's ok to make a mistake getting started - someone will catch
 it, and
 - b) I should expect feedback
 
 This helps with Jarmo's first and second scenarios, but also softens
 the blow when (your first) task is coldly invalidated with only four
 words

Re: [HOT] Validation

[Jarmo Kivekäs]

Currently there are tooltips in place that are displayed when you hover
the cursor over the button. They give a pretty clear idea on what the
buttons do:

- Lock this task to tell other that you are currently working on it
- Stop working on this task and unlock it. You may resume work on it
again later.
- Mark this task as done if you have completed all items in the
instructions.


I think we should settle for Start mapping and Stop mapping for the
button labels.

-- Jarmo

On 30.08.2015 15:18, Martin Dittus wrote:
 A further consideration: the terms should express a sense of _why_ we’re 
 asking people to press these buttons. The technical “check in/out” hints at 
 this, although it is likely not universally understood, and might not easily 
 translate.
 
 Do we explain our coordination workflow anywhere? If we have some confidence 
 that people have seen that explanation before they are asked to “start”, then 
 button labelling will become more straightforward. There’s less burden on the 
 button to explain a fundamental workflow in 2-3 words.
 
 It could be as simple as adding a sentence above the buttons.
 
 Although 2-3 words that label the button *and* explain the process at the 
 same time would of course be the most elegant option :)
 
 m.
 

___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

Re: [HOT] Validation

[Jarmo Kivekäs]

John,

The tooltips do not require java, but do require javascript. This should
not be an issue, though, since the tasking manager UI won't work in the
first place if the browser is not executing javascript.

-- Jarmo

On 30.08.2015 19:04, john whelan wrote:
 Do tool tips require java or javascript?  Not everyone is comfortable with
 these from a security point of view.
 
 Cheerio John
 
 On 30 August 2015 at 11:43, Jarmo Kivekäs jarmo.kive...@guttula.com wrote:
 
 Currently there are tooltips in place that are displayed when you hover
 the cursor over the button. They give a pretty clear idea on what the
 buttons do:

 - Lock this task to tell other that you are currently working on it
 - Stop working on this task and unlock it. You may resume work on it
 again later.
 - Mark this task as done if you have completed all items in the
 instructions.


 I think we should settle for Start mapping and Stop mapping for the
 button labels.

 -- Jarmo

 On 30.08.2015 15:18, Martin Dittus wrote:
 A further consideration: the terms should express a sense of _why_ we’re
 asking people to press these buttons. The technical “check in/out” hints at
 this, although it is likely not universally understood, and might not
 easily translate.

 Do we explain our coordination workflow anywhere? If we have some
 confidence that people have seen that explanation before they are asked to
 “start”, then button labelling will become more straightforward. There’s
 less burden on the button to explain a fundamental workflow in 2-3 words.

 It could be as simple as adding a sentence above the buttons.

 Although 2-3 words that label the button *and* explain the process at
 the same time would of course be the most elegant option :)

 m.


 ___
 HOT mailing list
 HOT@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

 

___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

Re: [HOT] Validation

[Suzan Reed]

'Start mapping' and 'end mapping' clearly communicates without the need for 
further explanation. The words can be stacked on the button for even more 
clarity. Good visual and written description that's clear and concise. How 
does this get implimated? What are the next steps?



Sent from my phone. Please forgive errors.



On August 30, 2015 5:21:12 AM Martin Dittus mar...@dekstop.de wrote:

A further consideration: the terms should express a sense of _why_ we’re 
asking people to press these buttons. The technical “check in/out” hints at 
this, although it is likely not universally understood, and might not 
easily translate.


Do we explain our coordination workflow anywhere? If we have some 
confidence that people have seen that explanation before they are asked to 
“start”, then button labelling will become more straightforward. There’s 
less burden on the button to explain a fundamental workflow in 2-3 words.


It could be as simple as adding a sentence above the buttons.

Although 2-3 words that label the button *and* explain the process at the 
same time would of course be the most elegant option :)


m.



On 30 Aug 2015, at 12:06, Pierre GIRAUD pierre.gir...@gmail.com wrote:

Also please remember that the tool is translated in other languages.
On my side, I don't know how to translate check in/out in french. It
depends on the situation. When I'm at the airport checking in
luggages, or at a hotel checking in to get my room's keys, I won't use
the same words.

On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 2:52 AM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote:

check in /out might be considered a regional dialect, you have to consider
the audience and their level of English, I think keep it as simple and as
clear as possible.

Cheerio John

On 29 August 2015 at 20:15, Denis Carriere carriere.de...@gmail.com wrote:


I'm liking check in  check out, I feel terminology is more commonly
used.

Also ethically the words start work doesn't look as good as button vs.
check in.

My personal opinion, +1 on check in  check out

~~
Denis Carriere
GIS Project Manager
Twitter: @DenisCarriere
OSM: DenisCarriere
Email: carriere.de...@gmail.com

On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 4:12 PM, Suzan Reed su...@suzanreed.com wrote:


Would 'start work' and 'stop work' be clear to all people?

Suzan
Sent from my phone. Please forgive errors.



On August 29, 2015 11:46:55 AM Jarmo Kivekäs jarmo.kive...@guttula.com
wrote:


Hi!

There has been some related discussion in a github issue[1] about this
last October.

I rather like the Stop working on task alternative that is suggested
instead of the Unlock button in that issue. Especially since currently
the button to lock a task says Start mapping. There is more obvious
connection between start/stop than start/unlock.

Checking in and checking out content is probably a strange concept to
many. I don't think it's an improvement over locking and unlocking.

Submit for review is a definitive improvement over Mark as done. It
should be implemented.

I've played around a little and made the changes I like the best in a
local copy of the tasking manager (screenshot in attachment). I'll
implement the changes and make a pull request if we come to an
agreement.

-- jarmo

[1] https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager2/issues/401

On 29.08.2015 05:22, Jim Smith wrote:


I like the idea of renaming the 'mark as done' button to 'submit for
review'. Little tweaks like that can bring clarity to those starting out.
Also Suzan suggested that the “lock” “unlock” function be renamed to “Check
out” and “check in. That would make a big difference as well.

I don't want to be too overenthusiastic  but is there any reason not to
make those two improvements? If no objection, can they be done soon?

Jim

-Original Message-
From: Martin Dittus [mailto:mar...@dekstop.de]
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 7:44 AM
To: David Toy d...@vidtoy.co.uk
Cc: hot hot@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [HOT] Validation

As I’m going through the comments again (here and on my diary post) I’m
starting to realise how important it is to give feedback to newcomers.
Without it, few people will ever feel confident about their contributions.

In many cases it probably doesn’t even need to be feedback from an
expert — it could be a comment from someone with similar experience levels.
A second pair of eyes.

An important part of this is being able to ask someone for a second
opinion. At a mapathon that’s easy, but where do remote mappers go?

m.



On 24 Aug 2015, at 19:00, David Toy d...@vidtoy.co.uk wrote:

Hi Jarmo. Welcome!

My introduction/onboarding to HOT was almost identical to Jarmo's -
and I can relate very clearly to all the points he has raised. I suspect
that there are a few more lurkers on this list who will be similar.

Pierre G's document suggests renaming the 'mark as done' button to
'submit for review'.

A simplification of terms / altered workflow would have helped me
initially. Taking the example of the done button, 'submit

[HOT] Validation

[Daniel Specht]

I like start mapping and stop mapping. Direct and simple.

-- 
Dan
___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

Re: [HOT] Validation

[john whelan]

I like start mapping and stop mapping. Direct and simple.

Sounds very good to me and should be simple to translate.

Cheerio John

On 30 August 2015 at 10:47, Daniel Specht danspe...@gmail.com wrote:

 I like start mapping and stop mapping. Direct and simple.

 --
 Dan

 ___
 HOT mailing list
 HOT@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot


___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

Re: [HOT] Validation

[Dale Kunce]

I like the start mapping/stop mapping names. I always thought unlock was a
bit weird.

@susan since the TM is a project in github feel free to file an issue on
the repo and take a shot at fixing the labels in the code.

https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager2

On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Jarmo Kivekäs jarmo.kive...@guttula.com
wrote:

 John,

 The tooltips do not require java, but do require javascript. This should
 not be an issue, though, since the tasking manager UI won't work in the
 first place if the browser is not executing javascript.

 -- Jarmo

 On 30.08.2015 19:04, john whelan wrote:
  Do tool tips require java or javascript?  Not everyone is comfortable
 with
  these from a security point of view.
 
  Cheerio John
 
  On 30 August 2015 at 11:43, Jarmo Kivekäs jarmo.kive...@guttula.com
 wrote:
 
  Currently there are tooltips in place that are displayed when you hover
  the cursor over the button. They give a pretty clear idea on what the
  buttons do:
 
  - Lock this task to tell other that you are currently working on it
  - Stop working on this task and unlock it. You may resume work on it
  again later.
  - Mark this task as done if you have completed all items in the
  instructions.
 
 
  I think we should settle for Start mapping and Stop mapping for the
  button labels.
 
  -- Jarmo
 
  On 30.08.2015 15:18, Martin Dittus wrote:
  A further consideration: the terms should express a sense of _why_
 we’re
  asking people to press these buttons. The technical “check in/out”
 hints at
  this, although it is likely not universally understood, and might not
  easily translate.
 
  Do we explain our coordination workflow anywhere? If we have some
  confidence that people have seen that explanation before they are asked
 to
  “start”, then button labelling will become more straightforward. There’s
  less burden on the button to explain a fundamental workflow in 2-3
 words.
 
  It could be as simple as adding a sentence above the buttons.
 
  Although 2-3 words that label the button *and* explain the process at
  the same time would of course be the most elegant option :)
 
  m.
 
 
  ___
  HOT mailing list
  HOT@openstreetmap.org
  https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
 
 

 ___
 HOT mailing list
 HOT@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot




-- 
sent from my mobile device

Dale Kunce
http://normalhabit.com
___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

Re: [HOT] Validation

[Suzan Reed]

Often a tile is worked on by a number of people. Perhaps ready for review 
accommodates having a number of contributers, and also has the connotation 
that it's finished?


Hopefully the new Learn OSM modules and possibly text with each task 
pointing newbies to those modules will enlighten them on what it all means 
before they contribute.


How can we encourage newbies to take the time to go through some training?


Sent from my phone. Please forgive errors.



On August 28, 2015 10:01:28 PM Robert Banick rban...@gmail.com wrote:

I really like both proposed wording changes - they send the right message 
to new contributors. My only concern is that submit for review implies 
that there *will* be review, which we can't always guarantee. 



The number of regular validators has gone way up in the last few years and 
that's been huge for HOT. But we still can't validate every tile. I worry 
that newcomers won't understand this and will get frustrated if their tile 
doesn't get reviewed. I'm sure some people really look forward to that 
green square saying they did it well.





Is there some way we can verbally message this in the TM? Maybe a popup 
modal the first time someone submits for review explaining these system?



—
Sent from Mailbox

On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 5:33 PM, Martin Dittus mar...@dekstop.de wrote:

As I’m going through the comments again (here and on my diary post) I’m 
starting to realise how important it is to give feedback to newcomers. 
Without it, few people will ever feel confident about their contributions.
In many cases it probably doesn’t even need to be feedback from an expert — 
it could be a comment from someone with similar experience levels. A second 
pair of eyes.
An important part of this is being able to ask someone for a second 
opinion. At a mapathon that’s easy, but where do remote mappers go?

m.

On 24 Aug 2015, at 19:00, David Toy d...@vidtoy.co.uk wrote:

Hi Jarmo. Welcome!

My introduction/onboarding to HOT was almost identical to Jarmo's - and I 
can relate very clearly to all the points he has raised. I suspect that 
there are a few more lurkers on this list who will be similar.


Pierre G's document suggests renaming the 'mark as done' button to 'submit 
for review'.


A simplification of terms / altered workflow would have helped me 
initially. Taking the example of the done button, 'submit for review' 
implies that:

- a) it's ok to make a mistake getting started - someone will catch it, and
- b) I should expect feedback

This helps with Jarmo's first and second scenarios, but also softens the 
blow when (your first) task is coldly invalidated with only four words of 
explanation. (Validators: that's not a criticism - I understand the time 
pressure.)


Also, not all users will read the docs - while training resources are 
useful, these little nudges of understanding help all users - even the new 
ones who enthusiastically started but didn't read the instructions.


David

On 24 August 2015 at 17:18, Jarmo Kivekäs jarmo.kive...@guttula.com wrote:
Hi!

I've been lurking on the mailing list for a while, but I'm still fairly
new to HOT. I though I'd pitch in.

I definitely recognized myself from Martin's write up as belonging to
the set of contributors who commit changes but don't mark tiles as done.
Below are some reasons why I've not marked tiles as complete in the past.

1. I think part of the reason is that I started out mapping on my own (I
haven't found a local community, nor was I introduced to mapping on a
mapathon). Therefore I haven't been able to just quickly ask someone
advice about something I'm unsure about. In these cases I've usually
left a comment in the tasking manager about whatever I was unsure about,
mapped the rest, but not marked the tile as done.

Not marking the tile done is me being conservative, I guess. As a new
mapper it is currently difficult to get feedback on the quality of your
mapping, you pretty much needs to actively seek it out. Getting
notifications when there are new comments on tiles you've worked on
would be nice.

2. When parts of a region are already mapped (probably form before the
activation was created) but the tiles that are already mapped are not
marked as done. I'm reluctant to mark a grid as done without making any
changes to it, even if it seemingly fills all the criterion for the
task. Especially when the grid has been locked my multiple users in the
past. They didn't think it was as done, I'm probably missing
something. I realize that this thinking only propagates the problem,
since I'll just be one more user on the list.

3. Grids can be pretty large. Sometimes you just don't manage to map it
completely in a short sitting. I know grids can be split, but...

4. Sometimes I'll for example only be mapping roads. Doing this will
result in many tiles being checked out and changesets are generated, but
no tiles are actually being finished.


-- Jarmo


On 24.08.2015 16:37, Martin Dittus wrote:

 On 24 Aug 2015, at 

Re: [HOT] Validation

[john whelan]

Realistically to give the NGOs the service level they would like we need to
validate or review every tile.

We need to revisit our ideas that someone off the street will know enough
about OSM to be able to map correctly everything asked for in the
instructions and will understand our jargon of done, validated and feel
comfortable enough to mark the tile done should they complete a tile which
is rare, as Suzan has pointed out.

I think certain mappers are probably accurate enough that when they mark a
tile done a bot could mark it validated perhaps overnight.  That would
allow us to concentrate what validation resources we do have on the tiles
that are likely to have more need of revision.

Cheerio John



On 29 August 2015 at 00:59, Robert Banick rban...@gmail.com wrote:

 I really like both proposed wording changes - they send the right message
 to new contributors. My only concern is that submit for review implies
 that there *will* be review, which we can't always guarantee.

 The number of regular validators has gone way up in the last few years and
 that's been huge for HOT. But we still can't validate every tile. I worry
 that newcomers won't understand this and will get frustrated if their tile
 doesn't get reviewed. I'm sure some people really look forward to that
 green square saying they did it well.

 Is there some way we can verbally message this in the TM? Maybe a popup
 modal the first time someone submits for review explaining these system?

 —
 Sent from Mailbox https://www.dropbox.com/mailbox


 On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 5:33 PM, Martin Dittus mar...@dekstop.de wrote:

 As I’m going through the comments again (here and on my diary post) I’m
 starting to realise how important it is to give feedback to newcomers.
 Without it, few people will ever feel confident about their contributions.

 In many cases it probably doesn’t even need to be feedback from an expert
 — it could be a comment from someone with similar experience levels. A
 second pair of eyes.

 An important part of this is being able to ask someone for a second
 opinion. At a mapathon that’s easy, but where do remote mappers go?

 m.


  On 24 Aug 2015, at 19:00, David Toy d...@vidtoy.co.uk wrote:
 
  Hi Jarmo. Welcome!
 
  My introduction/onboarding to HOT was almost identical to Jarmo's - and
 I can relate very clearly to all the points he has raised. I suspect that
 there are a few more lurkers on this list who will be similar.
 
  Pierre G's document suggests renaming the 'mark as done' button to
 'submit for review'.
 
  A simplification of terms / altered workflow would have helped me
 initially. Taking the example of the done button, 'submit for review'
 implies that:
  - a) it's ok to make a mistake getting started - someone will catch it,
 and
  - b) I should expect feedback
 
  This helps with Jarmo's first and second scenarios, but also softens
 the blow when (your first) task is coldly invalidated with only four words
 of explanation. (Validators: that's not a criticism - I understand the time
 pressure.)
 
  Also, not all users will read the docs - while training resources are
 useful, these little nudges of understanding help all users - even the new
 ones who enthusiastically started but didn't read the instructions.
 
  David
 
  On 24 August 2015 at 17:18, Jarmo Kivekäs jarmo.kive...@guttula.com
 wrote:
  Hi!
 
  I've been lurking on the mailing list for a while, but I'm still fairly
  new to HOT. I though I'd pitch in.
 
  I definitely recognized myself from Martin's write up as belonging to
  the set of contributors who commit changes but don't mark tiles as done.
  Below are some reasons why I've not marked tiles as complete in the
 past.
 
  1. I think part of the reason is that I started out mapping on my own (I
  haven't found a local community, nor was I introduced to mapping on a
  mapathon). Therefore I haven't been able to just quickly ask someone
  advice about something I'm unsure about. In these cases I've usually
  left a comment in the tasking manager about whatever I was unsure about,
  mapped the rest, but not marked the tile as done.
 
  Not marking the tile done is me being conservative, I guess. As a new
  mapper it is currently difficult to get feedback on the quality of your
  mapping, you pretty much needs to actively seek it out. Getting
  notifications when there are new comments on tiles you've worked on
  would be nice.
 
  2. When parts of a region are already mapped (probably form before the
  activation was created) but the tiles that are already mapped are not
  marked as done. I'm reluctant to mark a grid as done without making any
  changes to it, even if it seemingly fills all the criterion for the
  task. Especially when the grid has been locked my multiple users in the
  past. They didn't think it was as done, I'm probably missing
  something. I realize that this thinking only propagates the problem,
  since I'll just be one more user on the list.
 
  3. Grids can be pretty 

Re: [HOT] Validation

[Jim Smith]

Suzan, 

Your question, “How can we encourage newbies to take the time to go through 
some training?” struck a chord with me. I still remember being a newbie in 
mapping a short time ago :). And I still recall my goal was to get in as 
quickly as possible and save some people in Nepal. I didn’t care much for the 
history of OSM or HOT. I didn’t want to learn how grateful people would be for 
my mapping. In typical style, I’ll read the manual later… let me try it first 
:).

 

Your concept of chopping everything out but the essentials is perfect. I 
started reading the instructions. Then when it got  bogged down in how vital 
mapping is, I skipped ahead to how to map. When I got done with the iD section, 
I felt like I could map but then it kept pushing me to learn about JOSM, 
Potlash, Field Papers, etc.

 

Before bailing out, I decided, much against the feel I got from the 
instructions, I would just jump in and try mapping with iD instead of spending 
a few more days or weeks studying all the stuff I was supposed to.

 

Wow, it worked! I didn’t need to become well versed in everything. I could just 
open a window and start putting squared boxes around buildings! And apparently 
doing that was useful too! Eventually, I learned how to map rivers and 
highways. I kept hearing about how neat JOSM was so when I had a couple of 
days, I loaded that and started learning it.

 

I started getting nice notes from John Whelan and others with suggestions on 
how I could be even more useful. Wow, people actually noticed what us newbies 
do! 

 

So to answer Suzan’s question on how to encourage newbies? Keep things simple. 
Simple instructions on basic stuff like loading iD and marking and squaring 
buildings. Get someone to check their work and send occasional encouraging note 
with some feedback (“here’s how to square your buildings” or “don’t put 
buildings on top of roads”, etc). Once they have the confidence, ask if them 
step 2 with roads and rivers or something. Or they can stay with buildings and 
go to advanced stuff like making a round building, etc.

 

That’s how I recommend you encourage newbies. I know it works because I was 
there :).

 

Jim Smith

 

From: Suzan Reed [mailto:su...@suzanreed.com] 
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2015 4:30 AM
To: Robert Banick rban...@gmail.com; Martin Dittus mar...@dekstop.de
Cc: David Toy d...@vidtoy.co.uk; hot hot@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [HOT] Validation

 

Often a tile is worked on by a number of people. Perhaps ready for review 
accommodates having a number of contributers, and also has the connotation that 
it's finished?

Hopefully the new Learn OSM modules and possibly text with each task pointing 
newbies to those modules will enlighten them on what it all means before they 
contribute. 

How can we encourage newbies to take the time to go through some training? 

Sent from my phone. Please forgive errors.

On August 28, 2015 10:01:28 PM Robert Banick rban...@gmail.com 
mailto:rban...@gmail.com  wrote:

I really like both proposed wording changes - they send the right message to 
new contributors. My only concern is that submit for review implies that 
there *will* be review, which we can't always guarantee. 

 

The number of regular validators has gone way up in the last few years and 
that's been huge for HOT. But we still can't validate every tile. I worry that 
newcomers won't understand this and will get frustrated if their tile doesn't 
get reviewed. I'm sure some people really look forward to that green square 
saying they did it well.

 

Is there some way we can verbally message this in the TM? Maybe a popup modal 
the first time someone submits for review explaining these system?


—
Sent from Mailbox https://www.dropbox.com/mailbox  

 

On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 5:33 PM, Martin Dittus mar...@dekstop.de 
mailto:mar...@dekstop.de  wrote:

As I’m going through the comments again (here and on my diary post) I’m 
starting to realise how important it is to give feedback to newcomers. Without 
it, few people will ever feel confident about their contributions.

In many cases it probably doesn’t even need to be feedback from an expert — it 
could be a comment from someone with similar experience levels. A second pair 
of eyes.

An important part of this is being able to ask someone for a second opinion. At 
a mapathon that’s easy, but where do remote mappers go?

m.


 On 24 Aug 2015, at 19:00, David Toy d...@vidtoy.co.uk 
 mailto:d...@vidtoy.co.uk  wrote:
 
 Hi Jarmo. Welcome!
 
 My introduction/onboarding to HOT was almost identical to Jarmo's - and I can 
 relate very clearly to all the points he has raised. I suspect that there are 
 a few more lurkers on this list who will be similar.
 
 Pierre G's document suggests renaming the 'mark as done' button to 'submit 
 for review'.
 
 A simplification of terms / altered workflow would have helped me initially. 
 Taking the example of the done button, 'submit for review' implies that:
 - a) it's ok

Re: [HOT] Validation

[Robert Banick]

I really like both proposed wording changes - they send the right message to 
new contributors. My only concern is that submit for review implies that 
there *will* be review, which we can't always guarantee. 


The number of regular validators has gone way up in the last few years and 
that's been huge for HOT. But we still can't validate every tile. I worry that 
newcomers won't understand this and will get frustrated if their tile doesn't 
get reviewed. I'm sure some people really look forward to that green square 
saying they did it well.




Is there some way we can verbally message this in the TM? Maybe a popup modal 
the first time someone submits for review explaining these system?


—
Sent from Mailbox

On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 5:33 PM, Martin Dittus mar...@dekstop.de wrote:

 As I’m going through the comments again (here and on my diary post) I’m 
 starting to realise how important it is to give feedback to newcomers. 
 Without it, few people will ever feel confident about their contributions.
 In many cases it probably doesn’t even need to be feedback from an expert — 
 it could be a comment from someone with similar experience levels. A second 
 pair of eyes.
 An important part of this is being able to ask someone for a second opinion. 
 At a mapathon that’s easy, but where do remote mappers go?
 m.
 On 24 Aug 2015, at 19:00, David Toy d...@vidtoy.co.uk wrote:
 
 Hi Jarmo. Welcome!
 
 My introduction/onboarding to HOT was almost identical to Jarmo's - and I 
 can relate very clearly to all the points he has raised. I suspect that 
 there are a few more lurkers on this list who will be similar.
 
 Pierre G's document suggests renaming the 'mark as done' button to 'submit 
 for review'.
 
 A simplification of terms / altered workflow would have helped me initially. 
 Taking the example of the done button, 'submit for review' implies that:
 - a) it's ok to make a mistake getting started - someone will catch it, and
 - b) I should expect feedback
 
 This helps with Jarmo's first and second scenarios, but also softens the 
 blow when (your first) task is coldly invalidated with only four words of 
 explanation. (Validators: that's not a criticism - I understand the time 
 pressure.)
 
 Also, not all users will read the docs - while training resources are 
 useful, these little nudges of understanding help all users - even the new 
 ones who enthusiastically started but didn't read the instructions.
 
 David
 
 On 24 August 2015 at 17:18, Jarmo Kivekäs jarmo.kive...@guttula.com wrote:
 Hi!
 
 I've been lurking on the mailing list for a while, but I'm still fairly
 new to HOT. I though I'd pitch in.
 
 I definitely recognized myself from Martin's write up as belonging to
 the set of contributors who commit changes but don't mark tiles as done.
 Below are some reasons why I've not marked tiles as complete in the past.
 
 1. I think part of the reason is that I started out mapping on my own (I
 haven't found a local community, nor was I introduced to mapping on a
 mapathon). Therefore I haven't been able to just quickly ask someone
 advice about something I'm unsure about. In these cases I've usually
 left a comment in the tasking manager about whatever I was unsure about,
 mapped the rest, but not marked the tile as done.
 
 Not marking the tile done is me being conservative, I guess. As a new
 mapper it is currently difficult to get feedback on the quality of your
 mapping, you pretty much needs to actively seek it out. Getting
 notifications when there are new comments on tiles you've worked on
 would be nice.
 
 2. When parts of a region are already mapped (probably form before the
 activation was created) but the tiles that are already mapped are not
 marked as done. I'm reluctant to mark a grid as done without making any
 changes to it, even if it seemingly fills all the criterion for the
 task. Especially when the grid has been locked my multiple users in the
 past. They didn't think it was as done, I'm probably missing
 something. I realize that this thinking only propagates the problem,
 since I'll just be one more user on the list.
 
 3. Grids can be pretty large. Sometimes you just don't manage to map it
 completely in a short sitting. I know grids can be split, but...
 
 4. Sometimes I'll for example only be mapping roads. Doing this will
 result in many tiles being checked out and changesets are generated, but
 no tiles are actually being finished.
 
 
 -- Jarmo
 
 
 On 24.08.2015 16:37, Martin Dittus wrote:
 
  On 24 Aug 2015, at 11:22, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  I'd also like to see a third option on the tasking manger I've done some 
  work but not completed the tile could someone review it please.  I'd 
  rather catch errors early and some new mappers may not feel confident 
  enough to mark a tile complete.
 
  Considering better workflows for “incomplete” submissions is well 
  worthwhile. This week I found that about half of all HOT contributors 
  never mark their 

Re: [HOT] Validation

[Martin Dittus]

As I’m going through the comments again (here and on my diary post) I’m 
starting to realise how important it is to give feedback to newcomers. Without 
it, few people will ever feel confident about their contributions.

In many cases it probably doesn’t even need to be feedback from an expert — it 
could be a comment from someone with similar experience levels. A second pair 
of eyes.

An important part of this is being able to ask someone for a second opinion. At 
a mapathon that’s easy, but where do remote mappers go?

m.


 On 24 Aug 2015, at 19:00, David Toy d...@vidtoy.co.uk wrote:
 
 Hi Jarmo. Welcome!
 
 My introduction/onboarding to HOT was almost identical to Jarmo's - and I can 
 relate very clearly to all the points he has raised. I suspect that there are 
 a few more lurkers on this list who will be similar.
 
 Pierre G's document suggests renaming the 'mark as done' button to 'submit 
 for review'.
 
 A simplification of terms / altered workflow would have helped me initially. 
 Taking the example of the done button, 'submit for review' implies that:
 - a) it's ok to make a mistake getting started - someone will catch it, and
 - b) I should expect feedback
 
 This helps with Jarmo's first and second scenarios, but also softens the blow 
 when (your first) task is coldly invalidated with only four words of 
 explanation. (Validators: that's not a criticism - I understand the time 
 pressure.)
 
 Also, not all users will read the docs - while training resources are useful, 
 these little nudges of understanding help all users - even the new ones who 
 enthusiastically started but didn't read the instructions.
 
 David
 
 On 24 August 2015 at 17:18, Jarmo Kivekäs jarmo.kive...@guttula.com wrote:
 Hi!
 
 I've been lurking on the mailing list for a while, but I'm still fairly
 new to HOT. I though I'd pitch in.
 
 I definitely recognized myself from Martin's write up as belonging to
 the set of contributors who commit changes but don't mark tiles as done.
 Below are some reasons why I've not marked tiles as complete in the past.
 
 1. I think part of the reason is that I started out mapping on my own (I
 haven't found a local community, nor was I introduced to mapping on a
 mapathon). Therefore I haven't been able to just quickly ask someone
 advice about something I'm unsure about. In these cases I've usually
 left a comment in the tasking manager about whatever I was unsure about,
 mapped the rest, but not marked the tile as done.
 
 Not marking the tile done is me being conservative, I guess. As a new
 mapper it is currently difficult to get feedback on the quality of your
 mapping, you pretty much needs to actively seek it out. Getting
 notifications when there are new comments on tiles you've worked on
 would be nice.
 
 2. When parts of a region are already mapped (probably form before the
 activation was created) but the tiles that are already mapped are not
 marked as done. I'm reluctant to mark a grid as done without making any
 changes to it, even if it seemingly fills all the criterion for the
 task. Especially when the grid has been locked my multiple users in the
 past. They didn't think it was as done, I'm probably missing
 something. I realize that this thinking only propagates the problem,
 since I'll just be one more user on the list.
 
 3. Grids can be pretty large. Sometimes you just don't manage to map it
 completely in a short sitting. I know grids can be split, but...
 
 4. Sometimes I'll for example only be mapping roads. Doing this will
 result in many tiles being checked out and changesets are generated, but
 no tiles are actually being finished.
 
 
 -- Jarmo
 
 
 On 24.08.2015 16:37, Martin Dittus wrote:
 
  On 24 Aug 2015, at 11:22, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  I'd also like to see a third option on the tasking manger I've done some 
  work but not completed the tile could someone review it please.  I'd 
  rather catch errors early and some new mappers may not feel confident 
  enough to mark a tile complete.
 
  Considering better workflows for “incomplete” submissions is well 
  worthwhile. This week I found that about half of all HOT contributors never 
  mark their first task as “done” although they contributed edits to the map.
 
  I’ve written it up here, with stats and a brief discussion:
  https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/dekstop/diary/35649
 
  m.
 
 ___
 HOT mailing list
 HOT@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
 
 ___
 HOT mailing list
 HOT@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot


___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

Re: [HOT] Validation

[Martin Dittus]

 On 24 Aug 2015, at 11:22, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 I'd also like to see a third option on the tasking manger I've done some 
 work but not completed the tile could someone review it please.  I'd rather 
 catch errors early and some new mappers may not feel confident enough to mark 
 a tile complete.

Considering better workflows for “incomplete” submissions is well worthwhile. 
This week I found that about half of all HOT contributors never mark their 
first task as “done” although they contributed edits to the map. 

I’ve written it up here, with stats and a brief discussion:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/dekstop/diary/35649

m.
___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

Re: [HOT] Validation

[Pierre GIRAUD]

Interesting.

For your information, I've recently written a document in which I
describe what I think could be the future enhancements in the tasking
manager.
Specifically, there's a section about validation you may want to read.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1l3PwPbUPfXptQumZK_a_xioPYiGXAAw8JpKQhADmsJk/edit?usp=sharing

Regards,
Pierre

On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 6:40 AM, Suzan Reed su...@suzanreed.com wrote:
 Friends,

 I would like to see some boundaries set on who validates. Someone with less 
 than 50 changesets should not be validating, or even marking a tile Done. 
 Sometimes I think new mapper validate and invalidate just for the fun of it. 
 They quickly validate or invalidate and don’t map or complete a tile.

 Would it be possible to require a validator to !. complete the validation 
 course, and 2. have a set number of tiles completed? I know this will 
 probably be an arbitrary number and we can all argue all the many benchmarks, 
 but at least set it high enough so newbies are validating.

 I’ve often thought the Tasking Manager could use a little tweaking so the 
 Done, Validate, and Invalidate buttons are more intuitively understood. I’ve 
 seen newbies mark a tile Done when they finish their session. I think I might 
 have done that in my first days, too.

 Like John’s idea of having a designated validation person or team watching 
 for tiles that need validation in a specific project.  Blake Girdardot 
 actively involved in the Myanmar mapping, and it was very helpful.

 Possibly the validation course needs a bit of editing. These modules are up 
 for comments. Currently a team is editing for tone and clarity, but it is not 
 integrated into the modules yet.

 Suzan



 On Aug 23, 2015, at 4:34 PM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote:

 I've been looking through the new courses and one thing that hit me was my 
 idea of validation seems quite different to the concept I've seen so far in 
 the course so I think we should start by deciding what we want our tile 
 validators to do.

 These are my thoughts.

 Higher level validation can use different tools over a wider area.

 First comment is what I've found to be the most successful is not to declare 
 something invalid unless its really bad.  You want the mapper to feel 
 welcome, you want them to map again, INVALID missing a hut doesn't do that.  
 I've had people send me that on one of my tiles by the way, just map the hut 
 and move on.

 Generally I'll sit on one or more projects and validate just those projects 
 as the tiles are done.

 The objective is to give feedback within 24 hrs or less to the mapper.

 This feedback serves two purposes, one we are interested in your mapping and 
 second the earlier I can catch someone making a mistake the fewer errors I'll 
 need to fix in the future.

 In Cameroon using these techniques we've actually managed to completely map 
 and validate several projects.

 Note to Project managers if you want your project completed get yourself a 
 validator who validates the tiles as they are done.

 When you start on a new project take a look at the mapper, if they've mapped 
 twice three months ago then don't waste your time sending them emails just 
 clean up.

 Personally I only use JOSM when validating, you do have to press the validate 
 button for it to do its thing by the way.  It will only automatically 
 validate those edits you have made when you upload not the rest.

 Having said that there is a place for iD when validating, two of the mappers 
 I work with validate as a team one does the careful visual checking in iD, 
 the other runs JOSM over the end product.

 The quality of the imagery used seems to have an impact on the quality of the 
 mapping.  Especially with new mappers, less than ideal imagery means 
 validation is slow and tedious.

 I think we have to ask ourselves about how much we are prepared to pay for 
 what quality of work.  ie service level agreement.

 When we have a very large number of new mappers who are making lots of errors 
 then sometimes the judgement call is a JOSM validation to clean up the worst 
 errors and tag it validated in JOSM so if someone has the time they can go 
 back over it.  Select two top tiles and two base tiles and bring them into 
 JOSM, now download the area between directly from OSM run the validator tool 
 and do the search checks, ie area=yes etc.  Its fast and picks up many 
 mistakes but isn't the same quality as a normal validation.

 Things to look for are untagged ways - JOSM validation will pick these up.

 area=yes can be landuse=residential or building=yes
 zebra crossings in anywhere but the UK shouldn't be there.

 crossing highways not connected, throws the routing software.

 In Africa in rural areas highway=footway should be highway=path same for 
 highway=pedestrian, careful how you give feedback if they are an experienced 
 OSM mapper they're used to tagging with other values and you want to retain 
 them so point them 

Re: [HOT] Validation

[john whelan]

Pierre's comments align much more closely to my own thoughts than the
proposed current HOT training course and seem well thought out.

I'd also like to see a third option on the tasking manger I've done some
work but not completed the tile could someone review it please.  I'd
rather catch errors early and some new mappers may not feel confident
enough to mark a tile complete.

Thanks John

On 24 August 2015 at 02:07, Pierre GIRAUD pierre.gir...@gmail.com wrote:

 Interesting.

 For your information, I've recently written a document in which I
 describe what I think could be the future enhancements in the tasking
 manager.
 Specifically, there's a section about validation you may want to read.

 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1l3PwPbUPfXptQumZK_a_xioPYiGXAAw8JpKQhADmsJk/edit?usp=sharing

 Regards,
 Pierre

 On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 6:40 AM, Suzan Reed su...@suzanreed.com wrote:
  Friends,
 
  I would like to see some boundaries set on who validates. Someone with
 less than 50 changesets should not be validating, or even marking a tile
 Done. Sometimes I think new mapper validate and invalidate just for the fun
 of it. They quickly validate or invalidate and don’t map or complete a tile.
 
  Would it be possible to require a validator to !. complete the
 validation course, and 2. have a set number of tiles completed? I know this
 will probably be an arbitrary number and we can all argue all the many
 benchmarks, but at least set it high enough so newbies are validating.
 
  I’ve often thought the Tasking Manager could use a little tweaking so
 the Done, Validate, and Invalidate buttons are more intuitively understood.
 I’ve seen newbies mark a tile Done when they finish their session. I think
 I might have done that in my first days, too.
 
  Like John’s idea of having a designated validation person or team
 watching for tiles that need validation in a specific project.  Blake
 Girdardot actively involved in the Myanmar mapping, and it was very helpful.
 
  Possibly the validation course needs a bit of editing. These modules are
 up for comments. Currently a team is editing for tone and clarity, but it
 is not integrated into the modules yet.
 
  Suzan
 
 
 
  On Aug 23, 2015, at 4:34 PM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  I've been looking through the new courses and one thing that hit me was
 my idea of validation seems quite different to the concept I've seen so far
 in the course so I think we should start by deciding what we want our tile
 validators to do.
 
  These are my thoughts.
 
  Higher level validation can use different tools over a wider area.
 
  First comment is what I've found to be the most successful is not to
 declare something invalid unless its really bad.  You want the mapper to
 feel welcome, you want them to map again, INVALID missing a hut doesn't do
 that.  I've had people send me that on one of my tiles by the way, just map
 the hut and move on.
 
  Generally I'll sit on one or more projects and validate just those
 projects as the tiles are done.
 
  The objective is to give feedback within 24 hrs or less to the mapper.
 
  This feedback serves two purposes, one we are interested in your mapping
 and second the earlier I can catch someone making a mistake the fewer
 errors I'll need to fix in the future.
 
  In Cameroon using these techniques we've actually managed to completely
 map and validate several projects.
 
  Note to Project managers if you want your project completed get yourself
 a validator who validates the tiles as they are done.
 
  When you start on a new project take a look at the mapper, if they've
 mapped twice three months ago then don't waste your time sending them
 emails just clean up.
 
  Personally I only use JOSM when validating, you do have to press the
 validate button for it to do its thing by the way.  It will only
 automatically validate those edits you have made when you upload not the
 rest.
 
  Having said that there is a place for iD when validating, two of the
 mappers I work with validate as a team one does the careful visual checking
 in iD, the other runs JOSM over the end product.
 
  The quality of the imagery used seems to have an impact on the quality
 of the mapping.  Especially with new mappers, less than ideal imagery means
 validation is slow and tedious.
 
  I think we have to ask ourselves about how much we are prepared to pay
 for what quality of work.  ie service level agreement.
 
  When we have a very large number of new mappers who are making lots of
 errors then sometimes the judgement call is a JOSM validation to clean up
 the worst errors and tag it validated in JOSM so if someone has the time
 they can go back over it.  Select two top tiles and two base tiles and
 bring them into JOSM, now download the area between directly from OSM run
 the validator tool and do the search checks, ie area=yes etc.  Its fast and
 picks up many mistakes but isn't the same quality as a normal validation.
 
  Things to look for 

Re: [HOT] Validation

[Suzan Reed]

Are you referring to one time mappers or any who map? The following refers to 
both: 

I often work on a tile and don’t have enough time to finish, know there’s more 
that needs to be done, or ask for a review by another mapper, so I don’t mark 
it Done. When there are a lot of buildings I don’t do the tile all in one 
sitting. There are many reasons for checking out a tile and not finishing it. I 
also leave a Comment describing my work and what more needs doing. It’s helpful 
to scroll through the list of contributors to one tile to see how many have 
worked on it and to read other’s comments. Encouraging Comments would be good. 

The “lock” “unlock” function is not intuitive. “Check out” and “check in” would 
be easier to understand. 

Suzan 


On Aug 24, 2015, at 6:37 AM, Martin Dittus mar...@dekstop.de wrote:


 On 24 Aug 2015, at 11:22, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 I'd also like to see a third option on the tasking manger I've done some 
 work but not completed the tile could someone review it please.  I'd rather 
 catch errors early and some new mappers may not feel confident enough to mark 
 a tile complete.

Considering better workflows for “incomplete” submissions is well worthwhile. 
This week I found that about half of all HOT contributors never mark their 
first task as “done” although they contributed edits to the map. 

I’ve written it up here, with stats and a brief discussion:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/dekstop/diary/35649

m.
___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot


___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

Re: [HOT] Validation

[David Toy]

Hi Jarmo. Welcome!

My introduction/onboarding to HOT was almost identical to Jarmo's - and I
can relate very clearly to all the points he has raised. I suspect that
there are a few more lurkers on this list who will be similar.

Pierre G's document suggests renaming the 'mark as done' button to 'submit
for review'.

A simplification of terms / altered workflow would have helped me
initially. Taking the example of the done button, 'submit for review'
implies that:
- a) it's ok to make a mistake getting started - someone will catch it, and
- b) I should expect feedback

This helps with Jarmo's first and second scenarios, but also softens the
blow when (your first) task is coldly invalidated with only four words of
explanation. (Validators: that's not a criticism - I understand the time
pressure.)

Also, not all users will read the docs - while training resources are
useful, these little nudges of understanding help all users - even the new
ones who enthusiastically started but didn't read the instructions.

David

On 24 August 2015 at 17:18, Jarmo Kivekäs jarmo.kive...@guttula.com wrote:

 Hi!

 I've been lurking on the mailing list for a while, but I'm still fairly
 new to HOT. I though I'd pitch in.

 I definitely recognized myself from Martin's write up as belonging to
 the set of contributors who commit changes but don't mark tiles as done.
 Below are some reasons why I've not marked tiles as complete in the past.

 1. I think part of the reason is that I started out mapping on my own (I
 haven't found a local community, nor was I introduced to mapping on a
 mapathon). Therefore I haven't been able to just quickly ask someone
 advice about something I'm unsure about. In these cases I've usually
 left a comment in the tasking manager about whatever I was unsure about,
 mapped the rest, but not marked the tile as done.

 Not marking the tile done is me being conservative, I guess. As a new
 mapper it is currently difficult to get feedback on the quality of your
 mapping, you pretty much needs to actively seek it out. Getting
 notifications when there are new comments on tiles you've worked on
 would be nice.

 2. When parts of a region are already mapped (probably form before the
 activation was created) but the tiles that are already mapped are not
 marked as done. I'm reluctant to mark a grid as done without making any
 changes to it, even if it seemingly fills all the criterion for the
 task. Especially when the grid has been locked my multiple users in the
 past. They didn't think it was as done, I'm probably missing
 something. I realize that this thinking only propagates the problem,
 since I'll just be one more user on the list.

 3. Grids can be pretty large. Sometimes you just don't manage to map it
 completely in a short sitting. I know grids can be split, but...

 4. Sometimes I'll for example only be mapping roads. Doing this will
 result in many tiles being checked out and changesets are generated, but
 no tiles are actually being finished.


 -- Jarmo


 On 24.08.2015 16:37, Martin Dittus wrote:
 
  On 24 Aug 2015, at 11:22, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  I'd also like to see a third option on the tasking manger I've done
 some work but not completed the tile could someone review it please.  I'd
 rather catch errors early and some new mappers may not feel confident
 enough to mark a tile complete.
 
  Considering better workflows for “incomplete” submissions is well
 worthwhile. This week I found that about half of all HOT contributors never
 mark their first task as “done” although they contributed edits to the map.
 
  I’ve written it up here, with stats and a brief discussion:
  https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/dekstop/diary/35649
 
  m.

 ___
 HOT mailing list
 HOT@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

[HOT] Validation

[john whelan]

I've been looking through the new courses and one thing that hit me was my
idea of validation seems quite different to the concept I've seen so far in
the course so I think we should start by deciding what we want our tile
validators to do.

These are my thoughts.

Higher level validation can use different tools over a wider area.

First comment is what I've found to be the most successful is not to
declare something invalid unless its really bad.  You want the mapper to
feel welcome, you want them to map again, INVALID missing a hut doesn't do
that.  I've had people send me that on one of my tiles by the way, just map
the hut and move on.

Generally I'll sit on one or more projects and validate just those projects
as the tiles are done.

The objective is to give feedback within 24 hrs or less to the mapper.

This feedback serves two purposes, one we are interested in your mapping
and second the earlier I can catch someone making a mistake the fewer
errors I'll need to fix in the future.

In Cameroon using these techniques we've actually managed to completely map
and validate several projects.

Note to Project managers if you want your project completed get yourself a
validator who validates the tiles as they are done.

When you start on a new project take a look at the mapper, if they've
mapped twice three months ago then don't waste your time sending them
emails just clean up.

Personally I only use JOSM when validating, you do have to press the
validate button for it to do its thing by the way.  It will only
automatically validate those edits you have made when you upload not the
rest.

Having said that there is a place for iD when validating, two of the
mappers I work with validate as a team one does the careful visual checking
in iD, the other runs JOSM over the end product.

The quality of the imagery used seems to have an impact on the quality of
the mapping.  Especially with new mappers, less than ideal imagery means
validation is slow and tedious.

I think we have to ask ourselves about how much we are prepared to pay for
what quality of work.  ie service level agreement.

When we have a very large number of new mappers who are making lots of
errors then sometimes the judgement call is a JOSM validation to clean up
the worst errors and tag it validated in JOSM so if someone has the time
they can go back over it.  Select two top tiles and two base tiles and
bring them into JOSM, now download the area between directly from OSM run
the validator tool and do the search checks, ie area=yes etc.  Its fast and
picks up many mistakes but isn't the same quality as a normal validation.

Things to look for are untagged ways - JOSM validation will pick these up.

area=yes can be landuse=residential or building=yes
zebra crossings in anywhere but the UK shouldn't be there.

crossing highways not connected, throws the routing software.

In Africa in rural areas highway=footway should be highway=path same for
highway=pedestrian, careful how you give feedback if they are an
experienced OSM mapper they're used to tagging with other values and you
want to retain them so point them to the African highway wiki bit and
suggest highway=unclassified, track or path are the most commonly used
values in rural areas.

Buildings not squared, select buildings=yes the select each mapper in turn
if the don't have any huts use q to square them all at once. This is a time
management issue if we had more time we should do them one at a time
reality does it really matter if the building is square?  We know the rough
shape and size and buildings are expensive in mapper time.  Locally talking
to one mapper, buildings are OK for the first three hours after that forget
them.  Another mapper I know refers them as building hell projects.  Some
mappers are very good and will map buildings, I tend to be protective of
them and very gentle with them as well.  If you have a building project the
ones mapped in JOSM building_tool are much easier to validate than the iD
ones.

Scan the tile crtlDown arrow and look for missed settlements, I think
my record is twenty on a single tile.

huts are awkward, OSM says point or circular, HOT prefers circular but
experienced mappers will often use points.  You want them to keep HOT
mapping, if you criticise them too much they'll go back and map waste paper
bins locally.

Is there some sort of path or unclassified highway to each settlement?  If
not can we drop one in.  I map fewer paths, and tracks than I used to, it
takes time to map every track and path.

Try to avoid being condescending when communicating with mappers.   The
content is great, but how things are said often leaves the impression we
are a bunch of arrogant, condescending jerks. Each mapper is different,
you won't have time to read their life history before contacting them,
click on their name the OSM profile send message or @username (@[firstname
secondname] if they have a space in their name) in the comment.  the @
method works best as 

Re: [HOT] Validation

[Suzan Reed]

Friends, 

I would like to see some boundaries set on who validates. Someone with less 
than 50 changesets should not be validating, or even marking a tile Done. 
Sometimes I think new mapper validate and invalidate just for the fun of it. 
They quickly validate or invalidate and don’t map or complete a tile. 

Would it be possible to require a validator to !. complete the validation 
course, and 2. have a set number of tiles completed? I know this will probably 
be an arbitrary number and we can all argue all the many benchmarks, but at 
least set it high enough so newbies are validating. 

I’ve often thought the Tasking Manager could use a little tweaking so the Done, 
Validate, and Invalidate buttons are more intuitively understood. I’ve seen 
newbies mark a tile Done when they finish their session. I think I might have 
done that in my first days, too. 

Like John’s idea of having a designated validation person or team watching for 
tiles that need validation in a specific project.  Blake Girdardot actively 
involved in the Myanmar mapping, and it was very helpful. 

Possibly the validation course needs a bit of editing. These modules are up for 
comments. Currently a team is editing for tone and clarity, but it is not 
integrated into the modules yet. 

Suzan 



On Aug 23, 2015, at 4:34 PM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote:

I've been looking through the new courses and one thing that hit me was my idea 
of validation seems quite different to the concept I've seen so far in the 
course so I think we should start by deciding what we want our tile validators 
to do.

These are my thoughts.

Higher level validation can use different tools over a wider area.

First comment is what I've found to be the most successful is not to declare 
something invalid unless its really bad.  You want the mapper to feel welcome, 
you want them to map again, INVALID missing a hut doesn't do that.  I've had 
people send me that on one of my tiles by the way, just map the hut and move on.

Generally I'll sit on one or more projects and validate just those projects as 
the tiles are done.

The objective is to give feedback within 24 hrs or less to the mapper.

This feedback serves two purposes, one we are interested in your mapping and 
second the earlier I can catch someone making a mistake the fewer errors I'll 
need to fix in the future.

In Cameroon using these techniques we've actually managed to completely map and 
validate several projects.

Note to Project managers if you want your project completed get yourself a 
validator who validates the tiles as they are done.

When you start on a new project take a look at the mapper, if they've mapped 
twice three months ago then don't waste your time sending them emails just 
clean up.

Personally I only use JOSM when validating, you do have to press the validate 
button for it to do its thing by the way.  It will only automatically validate 
those edits you have made when you upload not the rest.

Having said that there is a place for iD when validating, two of the mappers I 
work with validate as a team one does the careful visual checking in iD, the 
other runs JOSM over the end product.

The quality of the imagery used seems to have an impact on the quality of the 
mapping.  Especially with new mappers, less than ideal imagery means validation 
is slow and tedious.

I think we have to ask ourselves about how much we are prepared to pay for what 
quality of work.  ie service level agreement.

When we have a very large number of new mappers who are making lots of errors 
then sometimes the judgement call is a JOSM validation to clean up the worst 
errors and tag it validated in JOSM so if someone has the time they can go 
back over it.  Select two top tiles and two base tiles and bring them into 
JOSM, now download the area between directly from OSM run the validator tool 
and do the search checks, ie area=yes etc.  Its fast and picks up many mistakes 
but isn't the same quality as a normal validation.

Things to look for are untagged ways - JOSM validation will pick these up.

area=yes can be landuse=residential or building=yes
zebra crossings in anywhere but the UK shouldn't be there.

crossing highways not connected, throws the routing software.

In Africa in rural areas highway=footway should be highway=path same for 
highway=pedestrian, careful how you give feedback if they are an experienced 
OSM mapper they're used to tagging with other values and you want to retain 
them so point them to the African highway wiki bit and suggest 
highway=unclassified, track or path are the most commonly used values in rural 
areas.

Buildings not squared, select buildings=yes the select each mapper in turn if 
the don't have any huts use q to square them all at once. This is a time 
management issue if we had more time we should do them one at a time reality 
does it really matter if the building is square?  We know the rough shape and 
size and buildings are expensive in 

Re: [HOT] validation

[john whelan]

I think if we get something like Nepal crop up again that this would be an
excellent introduction to HOT mapping and would help on the data quality
side.  However we have around a thousand open projects in HOT at the moment
and making an intro like this for each one would take quite a bit of effort.

Is the HOT training group aware of these?

Thanks John

On 29 June 2015 at 15:53, pierre mirlesse pierre_mirle...@yahoo.com wrote:

 John whelan mentioned in his note: If you put something in the task
 instructions then people have to read them
 and there seems to be a tendency to just map first and read the instructions
 afterwards

 inputs: maybe the descriptions and instructions format of the Tasking
 Manager a little too dry for new mappers.
 maybe a short video conversation/intro 2-3 mn about Why the task was
 created, by Whom and how it will be used
 could insure more stickyness/interest of new mappers to the task and
 promoting reading it's description.
 John if interested to test this out... let me know. Here are some of the
 intros I've done for other tasks:
 How To Map in Openstreetmap : Basic Training ID Editor HOT Task #1090
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI--yT3RL5U


 [image: image] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI--yT3RL5U





 How To Map in Openstreetmap : Basic Training ID Editor...
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI--yT3RL5U
 View on www.youtube.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI--yT3RL5U
 Preview by Yahoo

 How To Map in OSM : Advanced training with JOSM HOT Task #1062
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXrxGwT287E


 [image: image] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXrxGwT287E





 How To Map in OSM : Advanced training with JOSM HO...
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXrxGwT287E
 View on www.youtube.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXrxGwT287E
 Preview by Yahoo


 Pierre


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Re: [HOT] validation

[Eric Christensen]

On Saturday, June 27, 2015 09:11:39 PM john whelan wrote:

 Could some one think of a way to have a list of projects that are validated
 in this way that newcomers can find easily so they can get a bit of support
 and don't feel too isolated.  It would need commitment from someone to
 validate a project rather than the project manager adding it to the list.

Not exactly the same as what you were looking for but in another FOSS project 
I'm affiliated with we stood up an Askbot[0] instance that allows people to 
ask questions and then have others answer the questions.  Additional answers 
can be provided and a vote can be had to bring the best answer to the top.

--Eric

[0] https://askbot.com/

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Re: [HOT] validation

[Suzan Reed]

The instructions are not always clear, often have information newcomers don't 
understand, and are formatted in a way that make them difficult to grasp. 

People read information on the web differently than they do on paper. Short 
paragraphs of one sentence, lots of space, bulleted lists all work well. 

I've been thinking this for a few days. I'm adept in web usability 
(taught/lectured on the subject) and I think it's possible to put together a 
form activators could fill in that would make the instructions clearer. 
Instructions or a wiki on how to write for an activation could be helpful. 

I could edit one for clarity, but would need someone to volunteer their 
activation instructions so I know I'm not going to offend. ;-)

Cheers! 

Suzan 


On Jun 29, 2015, at 3:12 PM, john whelan wrote:

I think if we get something like Nepal crop up again that this would be an 
excellent introduction to HOT mapping and would help on the data quality side.  
However we have around a thousand open projects in HOT at the moment and making 
an intro like this for each one would take quite a bit of effort.

Is the HOT training group aware of these?

Thanks John

On 29 June 2015 at 15:53, pierre mirlesse pierre_mirle...@yahoo.com wrote:
John whelan mentioned in his note: If you put something in the task 
instructions then people have to read them
and there seems to be a tendency to just map first and read the instructions 
afterwards

inputs: maybe the descriptions and instructions format of the Tasking Manager a 
little too dry for new mappers. 
maybe a short video conversation/intro 2-3 mn about Why the task was created, 
by Whom and how it will be used 
could insure more stickyness/interest of new mappers to the task and 
promoting reading it's description.
John if interested to test this out... let me know. Here are some of the intros 
I've done for other tasks:
How To Map in Openstreetmap : Basic Training ID Editor HOT Task #1090  
 
 

 
 
 
 
 
How To Map in Openstreetmap : Basic Training ID Editor...
View on www.youtube.com
Preview by Yahoo
 
How To Map in OSM : Advanced training with JOSM HOT Task #1062
 
 

 
 
 
 
 
How To Map in OSM : Advanced training with JOSM HO...
View on www.youtube.com
Preview by Yahoo
 

Pierre


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Re: [HOT] validation

[Michael Heißmeier]

Hi all,

john whelan schrieb am 28.06.2015 um 15:00:
The problem with email addresses are that when Nepal started up we had several 
thousand new mappers in the first few days, if even 5% contacted the email 
address the person gets swamped and burns out.




I agree that any direct interaction outside a mapathon venue sounds problematic. 
Even if we had a dedicated irc channel then I imagine several people asking 
questions at the same time and a few validators trying to sort that out and 
answer simultaneously...
Not to forget that if such an option were offered then such a channel would have 
to be supervised at specified hours. Would require a roster for validators.


Maperthons, 1093 and 1094 I did quite a bit of validation on these, much of 
the initial mapping was done in Maperthons and the quality was uneven.


While validating for projects 831, 833 and 1094 I contacted those contributors 
who made systematic errors, I did so either from the comment field in the 
tasking manager or through the OSM message system when I felt a longer 
explanation possibly with a few images was required. A fraction of them 
responded and those who did were grateful for my comments. As I expected, the 
quality of their mapping was directly correlated to their experience in terms of 
contributions to OSM in general and HOT in particular.


If you put something in the task instructions then people have to read them 
and there seems to be a tendency to just map first and read the instructions 
afterwards.  In African villages highway=pedestrian isn't on the list of 
highways for Africa in the wiki.  Once you nudge them once or twice there is 
far less clean up to do when validating so ideally a tool that showed any new 
mapper who has mapped would be very nice but it isn't going to happen 
overnight.  More validators would be nice but they need to be tactful, have 
read the instructions and also have some knowledge and experience.  I recall 
one of my tiles was bruskly invalidated because I hadn't mapped something that 
was not required in the instructions.


People might not be reading instructions but they will have to read the 
contribute tab. Maybe something like a clearly visible message please read the 
instructions before you start - if in doubt ask on the mailing list could help 
here.


Another idea which comes to my mind: let contributors have a third choice for 
their task. Apart from Unlock and Mark task as done something which marks 
the task as done but calls for more-or-less immediate validation because the 
contributor wants feedback about the quality of his work. Such tiles would be 
displayed in a different colour and form a priority queue for validation.


This reduces the pressure of a direct interaction but offers newbies a feeling 
that they will not be left alone.


Regards

Michael



On 28 June 2015 at 07:35, Dale Kunce dale.ku...@gmail.com 
mailto:dale.ku...@gmail.com wrote:


John and Susan I love this idea. The Missing Maps projects are generally
really good for new mappers. We could set up a couple of tasks outside a
mapathon just for this purpose.

Would you once a list of people you can contact in the task instructions.
These folks will also be the ones responsible for being the validates and
Mentors


On Sat, Jun 27, 2015, 9:21 PM Suzan Reed su...@suzanreed.com
mailto:su...@suzanreed.com wrote:

John mentors me, and it's been extremely valuable to have him gently
mentioning problems.

Having a list of projects for new people where they can get some
mentoring as they learn to map would be exellent. Being isolated isn't
easy. Being on a team and working with other mappers encourages us to
do more mapping, and it's more interesting and dare I say, fun.

Cheers,
Suzan


On Jun 27, 2015, at 6:11 PM, john whelan wrote:

I normally keep an eye on about three or four projects and validate
any tiles that get marked done on those projects usually within a day
or so and often within an hour or two.

Working like this I find I can gently mention problems to newcomers
and strangely enough the projects get finished off.

Could some one think of a way to have a list of projects that are
validated in this way that newcomers can find easily so they can get a
bit of support and don't feel too isolated.  It would need commitment
from someone to validate a project rather than the project manager
adding it to the list.

Yes I understand that Maperthons are wonderful and looking over
someone's shoulder is useful but there are people who find getting to
Maperthons not so convenient and it would be nice to cater to them.

Thanks John
___






--
/Michael
(osm:michael63) /
___
HOT mailing list

Re: [HOT] validation

[john whelan]

Another idea which comes to my mind: let contributors have a third choice
for their task. Apart from Unlock and Mark task as done something which
marks the task as done but calls for more-or-less immediate validation
because the contributor wants feedback about the quality of his work. Such
tiles would be displayed in a different colour and form a priority queue
for validation.

This reduces the pressure of a direct interaction but offers newbies a
feeling that they will not be left alone.

I like this idea but it would need some method of picking them up.  There
is probably a thousand open projects at the moment too many to scan through
for one person.  The tile needn't be completely done just a please verify
if what I've done so far is complete.

On a personal note your validations on 1094 were appreciated, it helped
lighten the validation load and provided a quicker turn round on the
validation.  Often when you look at a project the problem mappers haven't
mapped in seven months so there isn't much point in sending them any
feedback which is why I just scan three or four projects that way I can
validate a tile as soon as its done.

Cheerio John

On 28 June 2015 at 12:13, Michael Heißmeier michae...@digital-filestore.de
wrote:

  Hi all,

 john whelan schrieb am 28.06.2015 um 15:00:

  The problem with email addresses are that when Nepal started up we had
 several thousand new mappers in the first few days, if even 5% contacted
 the email address the person gets swamped and burns out.


 I agree that any direct interaction outside a mapathon venue sounds
 problematic. Even if we had a dedicated irc channel then I imagine several
 people asking questions at the same time and a few validators trying to
 sort that out and answer simultaneously...
 Not to forget that if such an option were offered then such a channel
 would have to be supervised at specified hours. Would require a roster for
 validators.

  Maperthons, 1093 and 1094 I did quite a bit of validation on these, much
 of the initial mapping was done in Maperthons and the quality was uneven.

   While validating for projects 831, 833 and 1094 I contacted those
 contributors who made systematic errors, I did so either from the comment
 field in the tasking manager or through the OSM message system when I felt
 a longer explanation possibly with a few images was required. A fraction of
 them responded and those who did were grateful for my comments. As I
 expected, the quality of their mapping was directly correlated to their
 experience in terms of contributions to OSM in general and HOT in
 particular.

  If you put something in the task instructions then people have to read
 them and there seems to be a tendency to just map first and read the
 instructions afterwards.  In African villages highway=pedestrian isn't on
 the list of highways for Africa in the wiki.  Once you nudge them once or
 twice there is far less clean up to do when validating so ideally a tool
 that showed any new mapper who has mapped would be very nice but it isn't
 going to happen overnight.  More validators would be nice but they need to
 be tactful, have read the instructions and also have some knowledge and
 experience.  I recall one of my tiles was bruskly invalidated because I
 hadn't mapped something that was not required in the instructions.

   People might not be reading instructions but they will have to read the
 contribute tab. Maybe something like a clearly visible message please read
 the instructions before you start - if in doubt ask on the mailing list
 could help here.

 Another idea which comes to my mind: let contributors have a third choice
 for their task. Apart from Unlock and Mark task as done something which
 marks the task as done but calls for more-or-less immediate validation
 because the contributor wants feedback about the quality of his work. Such
 tiles would be displayed in a different colour and form a priority queue
 for validation.

 This reduces the pressure of a direct interaction but offers newbies a
 feeling that they will not be left alone.

 Regards

 Michael


 On 28 June 2015 at 07:35, Dale Kunce dale.ku...@gmail.com wrote:

 John and Susan I love this idea. The Missing Maps projects are generally
 really good for new mappers. We could set up a couple of tasks outside a
 mapathon just for this purpose.

 Would you once a list of people you can contact in the task instructions.
 These folks will also be the ones responsible for being the validates and
 Mentors

  On Sat, Jun 27, 2015, 9:21 PM Suzan Reed su...@suzanreed.com wrote:

 John mentors me, and it's been extremely valuable to have him gently
 mentioning problems.

 Having a list of projects for new people where they can get some
 mentoring as they learn to map would be exellent. Being isolated isn't
 easy. Being on a team and working with other mappers encourages us to do
 more mapping, and it's more interesting and dare I say, fun.

 Cheers,
 Suzan


 On Jun 27, 2015, at 

Re: [HOT] validation

[Dale Kunce]

I like the done but needs help option. This would be really helpful both
during mapathons and for big activations where we have lots of new mappers.

On Sun, Jun 28, 2015, 2:05 PM john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote:

 Another idea which comes to my mind: let contributors have a third choice
 for their task. Apart from Unlock and Mark task as done something which
 marks the task as done but calls for more-or-less immediate validation
 because the contributor wants feedback about the quality of his work. Such
 tiles would be displayed in a different colour and form a priority queue
 for validation.

 This reduces the pressure of a direct interaction but offers newbies a
 feeling that they will not be left alone.

 I like this idea but it would need some method of picking them up.  There
 is probably a thousand open projects at the moment too many to scan through
 for one person.  The tile needn't be completely done just a please verify
 if what I've done so far is complete.

 On a personal note your validations on 1094 were appreciated, it helped
 lighten the validation load and provided a quicker turn round on the
 validation.  Often when you look at a project the problem mappers haven't
 mapped in seven months so there isn't much point in sending them any
 feedback which is why I just scan three or four projects that way I can
 validate a tile as soon as its done.

 Cheerio John

 On 28 June 2015 at 12:13, Michael Heißmeier 
 michae...@digital-filestore.de wrote:

  Hi all,

 john whelan schrieb am 28.06.2015 um 15:00:

  The problem with email addresses are that when Nepal started up we had
 several thousand new mappers in the first few days, if even 5% contacted
 the email address the person gets swamped and burns out.


 I agree that any direct interaction outside a mapathon venue sounds
 problematic. Even if we had a dedicated irc channel then I imagine several
 people asking questions at the same time and a few validators trying to
 sort that out and answer simultaneously...
 Not to forget that if such an option were offered then such a channel
 would have to be supervised at specified hours. Would require a roster for
 validators.

  Maperthons, 1093 and 1094 I did quite a bit of validation on these,
 much of the initial mapping was done in Maperthons and the quality was
 uneven.

   While validating for projects 831, 833 and 1094 I contacted those
 contributors who made systematic errors, I did so either from the comment
 field in the tasking manager or through the OSM message system when I felt
 a longer explanation possibly with a few images was required. A fraction of
 them responded and those who did were grateful for my comments. As I
 expected, the quality of their mapping was directly correlated to their
 experience in terms of contributions to OSM in general and HOT in
 particular.

  If you put something in the task instructions then people have to read
 them and there seems to be a tendency to just map first and read the
 instructions afterwards.  In African villages highway=pedestrian isn't on
 the list of highways for Africa in the wiki.  Once you nudge them once or
 twice there is far less clean up to do when validating so ideally a tool
 that showed any new mapper who has mapped would be very nice but it isn't
 going to happen overnight.  More validators would be nice but they need to
 be tactful, have read the instructions and also have some knowledge and
 experience.  I recall one of my tiles was bruskly invalidated because I
 hadn't mapped something that was not required in the instructions.

   People might not be reading instructions but they will have to read
 the contribute tab. Maybe something like a clearly visible message please
 read the instructions before you start - if in doubt ask on the mailing
 list could help here.

 Another idea which comes to my mind: let contributors have a third choice
 for their task. Apart from Unlock and Mark task as done something which
 marks the task as done but calls for more-or-less immediate validation
 because the contributor wants feedback about the quality of his work. Such
 tiles would be displayed in a different colour and form a priority queue
 for validation.

 This reduces the pressure of a direct interaction but offers newbies a
 feeling that they will not be left alone.

 Regards

 Michael


 On 28 June 2015 at 07:35, Dale Kunce dale.ku...@gmail.com wrote:

 John and Susan I love this idea. The Missing Maps projects are generally
 really good for new mappers. We could set up a couple of tasks outside a
 mapathon just for this purpose.

 Would you once a list of people you can contact in the task
 instructions. These folks will also be the ones responsible for being the
 validates and Mentors

  On Sat, Jun 27, 2015, 9:21 PM Suzan Reed su...@suzanreed.com wrote:

 John mentors me, and it's been extremely valuable to have him gently
 mentioning problems.

 Having a list of projects for new people where they can get some
 

Re: [HOT] validation

[Suzan Reed]

John mentors me, and it's been extremely valuable to have him gently mentioning 
problems.

Having a list of projects for new people where they can get some mentoring as 
they learn to map would be exellent. Being isolated isn't easy. Being on a team 
and working with other mappers encourages us to do more mapping, and it's more 
interesting and dare I say, fun. 

Cheers, 
Suzan 


On Jun 27, 2015, at 6:11 PM, john whelan wrote:

I normally keep an eye on about three or four projects and validate any tiles 
that get marked done on those projects usually within a day or so and often 
within an hour or two.

Working like this I find I can gently mention problems to newcomers and 
strangely enough the projects get finished off.

Could some one think of a way to have a list of projects that are validated in 
this way that newcomers can find easily so they can get a bit of support and 
don't feel too isolated.  It would need commitment from someone to validate a 
project rather than the project manager adding it to the list.

Yes I understand that Maperthons are wonderful and looking over someone's 
shoulder is useful but there are people who find getting to Maperthons not so 
convenient and it would be nice to cater to them.

Thanks John 
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HOT@openstreetmap.org
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[HOT] validation

[john whelan]

I normally keep an eye on about three or four projects and validate any
tiles that get marked done on those projects usually within a day or so and
often within an hour or two.

Working like this I find I can gently mention problems to newcomers and
strangely enough the projects get finished off.

Could some one think of a way to have a list of projects that are validated
in this way that newcomers can find easily so they can get a bit of support
and don't feel too isolated.  It would need commitment from someone to
validate a project rather than the project manager adding it to the list.

Yes I understand that Maperthons are wonderful and looking over someone's
shoulder is useful but there are people who find getting to Maperthons not
so convenient and it would be nice to cater to them.

Thanks John
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Re: [HOT] validation

[Daniel Specht]

There was one project that had validation instructions.  As someone that
does a lot of validation, I found them extremely helpful.  Also it's one
more tool to avoid inappropriate validation (see below).

On June 2 John Whelan wrote
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2015 21:27:12 -0400
From: john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com
To: hot@openstreetmap.org hot@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [HOT] Validation
Message-ID:
caj-ex1gyl2wzbbrot_cfvahinu5cdu37nsdcv1wgwsskkox...@mail.gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Could validators at least have the curtsy to read the project instructions
before invalidating tiles because not all the buildings have been mapped on
a project that does not require buildings to be mapped.

I've brought it up in the Hot mailing group because although we talk about
training for mappers some validators could do with some as well and whilst
we are on the subject perhaps some suggestions on how to be tactful to
volunteer mappers might not be amiss.

-- 
Dan
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[HOT] Validation

[john whelan]

Could validators at least have the curtsy to read the project instructions
before invalidating tiles because not all the buildings have been mapped on
a project that does not require buildings to be mapped.

I've brought it up in the Hot mailing group because although we talk about
training for mappers some validators could do with some as well and whilst
we are on the subject perhaps some suggestions on how to be tactful to
volunteer mappers might not be amiss.

Thanks John
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Re: [HOT] Validation tools

[Pierre Béland]

John, we would need to routinely query Overpass to query for new contributions 
for a specific bbox.
We should thinkf further about such validation process. In the meantime, it is 
certainly possible to export the TM, calculate the bbox and then make Overpass 
queries.
An other interesting feature with Overpass, it is possible to query for a 
particular contributor. We then have a complete view of his contribution. If he 
make constantly the same error, easier maybe to spot and correct.
  
Pierre 

  De : john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com
 À : hot@openstreetmap.org hot@openstreetmap.org 
 Envoyé le : Dimanche 3 mai 2015 14h18
 Objet : [HOT] Validation tools
   
When I validate I may notice an area tagged as a building.  Occasionally I'll 
search the entire tile for more buildings by the same user and normally I'll 
find three or four areas tagged as buildings.

When I validate a project I try to validate tiles as soon or shortly after they 
are done and I've caught more than a few errors that way and gently nudged the 
mappers towards the accepted way of mapping.  However the typical tile has 
fourteen or fifteen different mappers contributing not just the one who marked 
it done.

However the really new inexperienced mappers don't mark a tile as done but 
these are the people I'd prefer to validate quickly to see they are mapping 
along the right lines.

Any suggestions please on how to pick them out and check what they've done?

Thanks John

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[HOT] Validation tools

[john whelan]

When I validate I may notice an area tagged as a building.  Occasionally
I'll search the entire tile for more buildings by the same user and
normally I'll find three or four areas tagged as buildings.

When I validate a project I try to validate tiles as soon or shortly after
they are done and I've caught more than a few errors that way and gently
nudged the mappers towards the accepted way of mapping.  However the
typical tile has fourteen or fifteen different mappers contributing not
just the one who marked it done.

However the really new inexperienced mappers don't mark a tile as done but
these are the people I'd prefer to validate quickly to see they are mapping
along the right lines.

Any suggestions please on how to pick them out and check what they've done?

Thanks John
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Re: [HOT] Validation of 'own' tiles

[Arun Ganesh]

This is a software issue. Have filed it here:
https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager2/issues/589


-- 
 Arun Ganesh
(planemad) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Planemad
 http://j.mp/ArunGanesh
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Re: [HOT] Validation of 'own' tiles

[Pierre Béland]

thanks.
an other way to help is to contribute to the task manager development, adding, 
commenting issues.
https://github.com/hotosm/imagery-requests/issues

regard.
  
Pierre 

  De : spatialbits spatialb...@posteo.net
 À : hot@openstreetmap.org 
 Envoyé le : Jeudi 30 avril 2015 1h48
 Objet : Re: [HOT] Validation of 'own' tiles
   
Hi again,

last night I went through all the validated tiles in #1009 and had to
invalidate most of them. Problem is that very new contributor (no or
very few OSM edits, almost no HOT contributions so far) validate tiles.
I wrote messages to all of them and it seems that most of them are
thankful for guidance.
I know there is some discussion about this in some other thread
regarding improvements on the process. However I noticed there is no
information about the validation step in the instructions to a task,
while the functionality is available.

Maybe we could add a standard note on this including the link to the
wiki in the tasks' descriptions?

Best wishes,

Martin

On 29.04.2015 19:10, spatialbits wrote:
 Hi all,
 
 I noticed in #1009 that some contributors validate tiles they marked as
 'done' themselves.
 
 Please be reminded that you should not validate your own work!
 
 Some info about validation in [1].
 
 
 Best wishes,
 
 Martin
 
 
 [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Tasking_Manager/Validating_data
 
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[HOT] Validation of 'own' tiles

[spatialbits]

Hi all,

I noticed in #1009 that some contributors validate tiles they marked as
'done' themselves.

Please be reminded that you should not validate your own work!

Some info about validation in [1].


Best wishes,

Martin


[1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Tasking_Manager/Validating_data

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Re: [HOT] Validation

[althio]

[continued... sorry for the previous post without meaningful content]

 If some people want a deeper dive into Tasking Manager, here are a few
 pointers to the GitHub repository for improvements and bug tracking system.


Blake Girardot bgirar...@gmail.com wrote:
 There are probably some programmatic things to improve the situation that
could be done:
 1. Dialog box on marking Done that asks Are you sure you have mapped
everything in the 'Entities to map' field?

Related in GitHub: add a popup/checklist of items to map and items to review

https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager2/issues/421
This issue is open for comments and suggestions.



 I tend to almost never invalidate a square unless it is obvious that
someone clicked done thinking that meant they were just done looking at
it

Related in Github: my long proposal to modify labels (Done is misleading,
Invalidate is unpleasant), add a 2-click process to mark (checkbox and
button) and hide invalidated status from the GUI for normal users (+ more
proposals for wording, colors, icons...)

https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager2/issues/484
mockup https://moqups.com/althio.fo...@gmail.com/3LXQtQ9I
This issue is open for comments and suggestions.

This is to be discussed but I think invalidate could be hidden on the map
or changed to something more neutral like re-open.




Vao Matua vaoma...@gmail.com wrote:
 A suggestion for the HOT Tasking Manager Stats page would be to add the
number of tiles an individual mapper Validates.

See this report from Nick:
https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager2/issues/545
and a previous one about contributing without marking as done
https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager2/issues/368
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Re: [HOT] Validation

[althio]

 2. Maybe reverse what we have now: No mail gets sent when something is
invalidated and mail gets sent when something is validated. I don't know
how many people come back to map if their task square gets invalidated
anyway, especially if it is weeks or months later so we might not be
gaining anything by sending the invalidated notice and just discouraging
people.

 I think we would gain a lot more if people got notices of the good job
they did instead.

 And then we wouldn't feel bad to invalidate a task square so it can get
the attention it needs and we can move on to validate more tasks.

 That might be a good simple start, just stop sending the 'invalidated'
notices.

 Your point about no more notifications of invalidated tiles is quite
thought provoking Blake.
My first instinct would be to disagree because I like to know when my tiles
get invalidated. It can happen that some reviewers ask for more mapping
than the instructions (in particular important buildings vs all buildings).
Any time the instructions are unclear it is getting worse.
Some personal examples:
http:// http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/751#task/154tasks.hotosm.org
http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/751#task/154/project/751#task/154
http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/751#task/154
http:// http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/765#task/163tasks.hotosm.org
http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/765#task/163/project/765#task/163
http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/765#task/163
http:// http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/767#task/261tasks.hotosm.org
http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/767#task/261/project/767#task/261
http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/767#task/261
http:// http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/767#task/207tasks.hotosm.org
http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/767#task/207/project/767#task/207
http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/767#task/207

Anyway any default behavior for notifications could be overridden by
specific @-mentions from any comments/validation/invalidation.

Notification for validated is positive feedback.
Notification for invalidated is negative feedback, but comment is
compulsory.
Notification for invalidated with comment (automatic or @-mention) is
constructive feedback.
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Re: [HOT] Validation

[althio]

If some people want a deeper dive into Tasking Manager, here are a few
pointers to the GitHub repository for improvements and bug tracking system.

Blake Girardot bgirar...@gmail.com wrote:
 Nick, Blake  althio, Good practical advice.
I think it is important to remember that there are humans on either side of
the validation.
There have been times when I added a few features and then validated, other
times I start adding and realize that quite a bit had been missed and then
I'm kind of stuck and just finish it off.  Hopefully I'm not leaving a
similar trail for others to clean up.

A suggestion for the HOT Tasking Manager Stats page would be to add the
number of tiles an individual mapper Validates.

As John says we have a lot of tiles to map.

Map on

Emmor
(Palolo)

On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 5:59 AM, althio althio.fo...@gmail.com wrote:

 My personal views is that statuses done/validated/invalidated should be
 related to progress and quality of the current state of mapping.
 We should not use that to give feedback or give implicitly a notation to
 previous mappers.
 Use comments (with @-mentions) for feedback.
 A notation of mappers is a very complex and different problem.


 Pragmatic / Real situation answers

 Empty tile or most work not done: invalidated, short comment.

 A bit of work left to do ie. a few missing elements or tagging errors. I
 would do corrections to bring the mapping standard up to required level, I
 would add detailed comment to provide feedback or guidance. If I am
 confident enough with the previous work and my minor edits, I validate
 since the tile is now OK. Otherwise I leave it to another reviewer.

 In between? It depends on the mood and available time obviously and the
 limits between cases are fuzzy.
 If I have too little time or it is too much corrections I would go for the
 comments only with @-mentions, most of the time with no further
 validation/invalidation. If I avoid invalidation I hope the comment is
 enough for track record and bring attention to previous and potential
 mappers. This is taking care of community over quality and I appreciate
 that opinions may differ.


 john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote:


 Question at what point should I invalidate?  The question arises when
 perhaps I've added a dozen settlements and half a dozen highways, I'm
 fairly experienced so fairly comfortable the work is OK after I've added in
 the validation but there is the question that I've added a dozen
 settlements and no one else will be validating.

 I'm looking more for pragmatic answers more than anything else, there is
 a concern that if I invalidate a tile it may demotivate a mapper and at the
 moment we have a lot of tiles to map.

 Thanks

 Cheerio John



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Re: [HOT] Validation

[john whelan]

So it sounds like by validating we are giving some positive feedback and
makes it seem that the mapping efforts aren't for naught and ideally we
should be in a position to validate within a day or two of the mapping to
keep a bit of motivation up.

I have noticed that in the stats we say xyz has done twenty three tiles but
in reality each tile has been worked on by three or four different people
in some ways xyz has only signed off on it.

Anyway I'd better go and validate a few more on the tasks I'm working on.

Thanks John

On 16 February 2015 at 00:55, Blake Girardot bgirar...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi John,

 It is a difficult question you ask as I feel the same way you and Nick do,
 I really don't want to invalidate squares to avoid discouraging people.

 I tend to almost never invalidate a square unless it is obvious that
 someone clicked done thinking that meant they were just done looking at
 it.

 So, depending on how much mapping there is to do I usually:

 Just do the mapping if it is less than 15 mins worth and make sure to let
 the person who marked it done thank you for the mapping, there was a bit
 more to do so I finished it up. I will also often just map it even if it is
 longer than 15 mins but I end up validating a lot less if that is the case
 on a lot of squares.

 Unlock a task square and then just directly message the person and ask
 them if they could map a bit more. I only do this if we are talking a
 square completed in the past day or two.

 Unlock the task square and find another one to hopefully validate quicker
 if my time is limited. I know this is a terrible solution.

 There are probably some programmatic things to improve the situation that
 could be done:

 1. Dialog box on marking Done that asks Are you sure you have mapped
 everything in the 'Entities to map' field?

 2. Maybe reverse what we have now: No mail gets sent when something is
 invalidated and mail gets sent when something is validated. I don't know
 how many people come back to map if their task square gets invalidated
 anyway, especially if it is weeks or months later so we might not be
 gaining anything by sending the invalidated notice and just discouraging
 people.

 I think we would gain a lot more if people got notices of the good job
 they did instead.

 And then we wouldn't feel bad to invalidate a task square so it can get
 the attention it needs and we can move on to validate more tasks.

 That might be a good simple start, just stop sending the 'invalidated'
 notices.

 Thank you for bringing it up, the validation process is tricky and subtle.

 Cheers,
 Blake





 On 2/16/2015 12:55 AM, john whelan wrote:

 Mapping in Africa from satellite images I find I'm adding perhaps half a
 dozen settlements when I validate, they're quite quick and easy to do.
 Some are huts and are not quite so easy to spot.

 Question at what point should I invalidate?  The question arises when
 perhaps I've added a dozen settlements and half a dozen highways, I'm
 fairly experienced so fairly comfortable the work is OK after I've added
 in the validation but there is the question that I've added a dozen
 settlements and no one else will be validating.

 I'm looking more for pragmatic answers more than anything else, there is
 a concern that if I invalidate a tile it may demotivate a mapper and at
 the moment we have a lot of tiles to map.

 Thanks

 Cheerio John


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Re: [HOT] Validation

[althio]

My personal views is that statuses done/validated/invalidated should be
related to progress and quality of the current state of mapping.
We should not use that to give feedback or give implicitly a notation to
previous mappers.
Use comments (with @-mentions) for feedback.
A notation of mappers is a very complex and different problem.


Pragmatic / Real situation answers

Empty tile or most work not done: invalidated, short comment.

A bit of work left to do ie. a few missing elements or tagging errors. I
would do corrections to bring the mapping standard up to required level, I
would add detailed comment to provide feedback or guidance. If I am
confident enough with the previous work and my minor edits, I validate
since the tile is now OK. Otherwise I leave it to another reviewer.

In between? It depends on the mood and available time obviously and the
limits between cases are fuzzy.
If I have too little time or it is too much corrections I would go for the
comments only with @-mentions, most of the time with no further
validation/invalidation. If I avoid invalidation I hope the comment is
enough for track record and bring attention to previous and potential
mappers. This is taking care of community over quality and I appreciate
that opinions may differ.


john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote:


 Question at what point should I invalidate?  The question arises when
 perhaps I've added a dozen settlements and half a dozen highways, I'm
 fairly experienced so fairly comfortable the work is OK after I've added in
 the validation but there is the question that I've added a dozen
 settlements and no one else will be validating.

 I'm looking more for pragmatic answers more than anything else, there is a
 concern that if I invalidate a tile it may demotivate a mapper and at the
 moment we have a lot of tiles to map.

 Thanks

 Cheerio John

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Re: [HOT] Validation

[Vao Matua]

Nick, Blake  althio, Good practical advice.
I think it is important to remember that there are humans on either side of
the validation.
There have been times when I added a few features and then validated, other
times I start adding and realize that quite a bit had been missed and then
I'm kind of stuck and just finish it off.  Hopefully I'm not leaving a
similar trail for others to clean up.

A suggestion for the HOT Tasking Manager Stats page would be to add the
number of tiles an individual mapper Validates.

As John says we have a lot of tiles to map.

Map on

Emmor
(Palolo)

On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 5:59 AM, althio althio.fo...@gmail.com wrote:

 My personal views is that statuses done/validated/invalidated should be
 related to progress and quality of the current state of mapping.
 We should not use that to give feedback or give implicitly a notation to
 previous mappers.
 Use comments (with @-mentions) for feedback.
 A notation of mappers is a very complex and different problem.


 Pragmatic / Real situation answers

 Empty tile or most work not done: invalidated, short comment.

 A bit of work left to do ie. a few missing elements or tagging errors. I
 would do corrections to bring the mapping standard up to required level, I
 would add detailed comment to provide feedback or guidance. If I am
 confident enough with the previous work and my minor edits, I validate
 since the tile is now OK. Otherwise I leave it to another reviewer.

 In between? It depends on the mood and available time obviously and the
 limits between cases are fuzzy.
 If I have too little time or it is too much corrections I would go for the
 comments only with @-mentions, most of the time with no further
 validation/invalidation. If I avoid invalidation I hope the comment is
 enough for track record and bring attention to previous and potential
 mappers. This is taking care of community over quality and I appreciate
 that opinions may differ.


 john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote:


 Question at what point should I invalidate?  The question arises when
 perhaps I've added a dozen settlements and half a dozen highways, I'm
 fairly experienced so fairly comfortable the work is OK after I've added in
 the validation but there is the question that I've added a dozen
 settlements and no one else will be validating.

 I'm looking more for pragmatic answers more than anything else, there is
 a concern that if I invalidate a tile it may demotivate a mapper and at the
 moment we have a lot of tiles to map.

 Thanks

 Cheerio John



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[HOT] Validation

[john whelan]

Mapping in Africa from satellite images I find I'm adding perhaps half a
dozen settlements when I validate, they're quite quick and easy to do.
Some are huts and are not quite so easy to spot.

Question at what point should I invalidate?  The question arises when
perhaps I've added a dozen settlements and half a dozen highways, I'm
fairly experienced so fairly comfortable the work is OK after I've added in
the validation but there is the question that I've added a dozen
settlements and no one else will be validating.

I'm looking more for pragmatic answers more than anything else, there is a
concern that if I invalidate a tile it may demotivate a mapper and at the
moment we have a lot of tiles to map.

Thanks

Cheerio John
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Re: [HOT] Validation

[Nick Allen]

John,

I tend to vary it a bit - My normal comment in the box is something like
'imagery was probably slow to load which is why they were missed', but then
I often add a link to something like
http://learnosm.org/en/coordination/remote/#buildings-compounds-amp-barriers
and a casual comment about round huts being explained there, just in case
the mapper isn't recognising them.

Sometimes I'm quite happy to do a lot of missed mapping on the basis that
it can be quite relaxing  pleasant to do so!  If I do add the missing
bits, I normally still add the link  send the message just in case there
is a learning point. When I'm validating for a mapathon I try to actually
see the mapper  get them to add the missing bits.

Although quality control is important, helping each other is more
important. I don't like to see squares invalidated for little reason as it
tends to lead to ill feeling.

I only ever invalidate if there is a lot missing though - we can all miss a
couple of buildings on occasion. I have genuinely had imagery fail to load
properly, so I missed an entire area at one point, and only picked up on it
when working on the adjoining square  realising there had to be something
I had missed.

Keep up the good work.

Regards

NIck
(Tallguy)

Nick

Volunteer 'Tallguy' for
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team

http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Tallguy

Treasurer, website  Bonus Ball admin for
http://www.6thswanleyscouts.org.uk/ (treasu...@6thswanleyscouts.org.uk)

On 15 February 2015 at 23:55, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote:

 Mapping in Africa from satellite images I find I'm adding perhaps half a
 dozen settlements when I validate, they're quite quick and easy to do.
 Some are huts and are not quite so easy to spot.

 Question at what point should I invalidate?  The question arises when
 perhaps I've added a dozen settlements and half a dozen highways, I'm
 fairly experienced so fairly comfortable the work is OK after I've added in
 the validation but there is the question that I've added a dozen
 settlements and no one else will be validating.

 I'm looking more for pragmatic answers more than anything else, there is a
 concern that if I invalidate a tile it may demotivate a mapper and at the
 moment we have a lot of tiles to map.

 Thanks

 Cheerio John

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Re: [HOT] Validation

[Blake Girardot]

Hi John,

It is a difficult question you ask as I feel the same way you and Nick 
do, I really don't want to invalidate squares to avoid discouraging people.


I tend to almost never invalidate a square unless it is obvious that 
someone clicked done thinking that meant they were just done looking 
at it.


So, depending on how much mapping there is to do I usually:

Just do the mapping if it is less than 15 mins worth and make sure to 
let the person who marked it done thank you for the mapping, there was a 
bit more to do so I finished it up. I will also often just map it even 
if it is longer than 15 mins but I end up validating a lot less if that 
is the case on a lot of squares.


Unlock a task square and then just directly message the person and ask 
them if they could map a bit more. I only do this if we are talking a 
square completed in the past day or two.


Unlock the task square and find another one to hopefully validate 
quicker if my time is limited. I know this is a terrible solution.


There are probably some programmatic things to improve the situation 
that could be done:


1. Dialog box on marking Done that asks Are you sure you have mapped 
everything in the 'Entities to map' field?


2. Maybe reverse what we have now: No mail gets sent when something is 
invalidated and mail gets sent when something is validated. I don't know 
how many people come back to map if their task square gets invalidated 
anyway, especially if it is weeks or months later so we might not be 
gaining anything by sending the invalidated notice and just discouraging 
people.


I think we would gain a lot more if people got notices of the good job 
they did instead.


And then we wouldn't feel bad to invalidate a task square so it can get 
the attention it needs and we can move on to validate more tasks.


That might be a good simple start, just stop sending the 'invalidated' 
notices.


Thank you for bringing it up, the validation process is tricky and subtle.

Cheers,
Blake




On 2/16/2015 12:55 AM, john whelan wrote:

Mapping in Africa from satellite images I find I'm adding perhaps half a
dozen settlements when I validate, they're quite quick and easy to do.
Some are huts and are not quite so easy to spot.

Question at what point should I invalidate?  The question arises when
perhaps I've added a dozen settlements and half a dozen highways, I'm
fairly experienced so fairly comfortable the work is OK after I've added
in the validation but there is the question that I've added a dozen
settlements and no one else will be validating.

I'm looking more for pragmatic answers more than anything else, there is
a concern that if I invalidate a tile it may demotivate a mapper and at
the moment we have a lot of tiles to map.

Thanks

Cheerio John


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[HOT] HOT Validation Style

[Mark Cupitt]

To support the Tharparkar HMP and to make Validation of Tiles Easier, we
have just released a new JOSM Style. This style is designed to highlight
any items that do NOT match the spec proposed by Pierre at
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa

At the Moment, we are focused on Landuse=residential and the highway and
surface tags. Any tags used in a specific area that do not match the tags
specified, will be highlighted brightly in red, whilst acceptable tags will
be muted but still visible.

Hopefully this will make validation of tags used a lot simpler, but, of
course, tiles still have ot be checked for completeness.

The remainder of the styling is as per the HDM Style and has been left
untouched for now.

The Style was developed from the HOT HDM Style and and the Surface Data
Entry Style from AndrewBuck

This is the first version and it is available for download at

https://github.com/DisasterNetDOTOrg/HOT-Osm-Validation

If you find any issues or would like to expand the styles capabilities,
please leave an issue on the Git Repository.

We have also submitted it for inclusion in the JSOM Map Paint Style Wiki so
you should be able to download it direct into JOSM

Regards

Mark Cupitt

If we change the world, let it bear the mark of our intelligence

See me on LinkedIn http://ph.linkedin.com/in/markcupitt

*See me on StackExchange http://gis.stackexchange.com/users/17846/mark-c*

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Re: [HOT] HOT Validation Style

[Nick Allen]

Mark,

Thanks for your work on this. I've installed it on two different 
computers (small laptop screen  one with a much larger desktop screen) 
and given it a thorough work out over the last couple of hours - I like 
it  found it much easier to identify problems with highway tags.


I've added a section to the wiki at 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Tasking_Manager/Validating_data#Before_you_start 
recommending its use - can you check you are happy with the wording please.


I've also added a couple of requests on github - if someone could look 
at them when convenient I'd be grateful.


Once again, thanks for the work by all involved on this, I think it's a 
real improvement  will be using it from now onwards.


Regards

Nick
(Tallguy)

On 13/04/14 09:55, Mark Cupitt wrote:
To support the Tharparkar HMP and to make Validation of Tiles Easier, 
we have just released a new JOSM Style. This style is designed to 
highlight any items that do NOT match the spec proposed by Pierre at 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa


At the Moment, we are focused on Landuse=residential and the highway 
and surface tags. Any tags used in a specific area that do not match 
the tags specified, will be highlighted brightly in red, whilst 
acceptable tags will be muted but still visible.


Hopefully this will make validation of tags used a lot simpler, but, 
of course, tiles still have ot be checked for completeness.


The remainder of the styling is as per the HDM Style and has been left 
untouched for now.


The Style was developed from the HOT HDM Style and and the Surface 
Data Entry Style from AndrewBuck


This is the first version and it is available for download at

https://github.com/DisasterNetDOTOrg/HOT-Osm-Validation

If you find any issues or would like to expand the styles 
capabilities, please leave an issue on the Git Repository.


We have also submitted it for inclusion in the JSOM Map Paint Style 
Wiki so you should be able to download it direct into JOSM


Regards

Mark Cupitt

If we change the world, let it bear the mark of our intelligence

See me on LinkedIn http://ph.linkedin.com/in/markcupitt

*See me on StackExchange 
http://gis.stackexchange.com/users/17846/mark-c*


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Re: [HOT] HOT Validation Style

[Mark Cupitt]

Hi Nick, thanks and it is a pleasure. Will look at the issues on GitHub
soon. Glad it is of use. Cheers Mark


Regards

Mark Cupitt

If we change the world, let it bear the mark of our intelligence

See me on LinkedIn http://ph.linkedin.com/in/markcupitt

*See me on StackExchange http://gis.stackexchange.com/users/17846/mark-c*

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On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 8:57 AM, Nick Allen nick.allen...@gmail.com wrote:

  Mark,

 Thanks for your work on this. I've installed it on two different computers
 (small laptop screen  one with a much larger desktop screen) and given it
 a thorough work out over the last couple of hours - I like it  found it
 much easier to identify problems with highway tags.

 I've added a section to the wiki at
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Tasking_Manager/Validating_data#Before_you_startrecommending
  its use - can you check you are happy with the wording please.

 I've also added a couple of requests on github - if someone could look at
 them when convenient I'd be grateful.

 Once again, thanks for the work by all involved on this, I think it's a
 real improvement  will be using it from now onwards.

 Regards

 Nick
 (Tallguy)


 On 13/04/14 09:55, Mark Cupitt wrote:

 To support the Tharparkar HMP and to make Validation of Tiles Easier, we
 have just released a new JOSM Style. This style is designed to highlight
 any items that do NOT match the spec proposed by Pierre at
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa

  At the Moment, we are focused on Landuse=residential and the highway and
 surface tags. Any tags used in a specific area that do not match the tags
 specified, will be highlighted brightly in red, whilst acceptable tags will
 be muted but still visible.

  Hopefully this will make validation of tags used a lot simpler, but, of
 course, tiles still have ot be checked for completeness.

  The remainder of the styling is as per the HDM Style and has been left
 untouched for now.

  The Style was developed from the HOT HDM Style and and the Surface Data
 Entry Style from AndrewBuck

  This is the first version and it is available for download at

  https://github.com/DisasterNetDOTOrg/HOT-Osm-Validation

  If you find any issues or would like to expand the styles capabilities,
 please leave an issue on the Git Repository.

  We have also submitted it for inclusion in the JSOM Map Paint Style Wiki
 so you should be able to download it direct into JOSM

  Regards

  Mark Cupitt

  If we change the world, let it bear the mark of our intelligence

  See me on LinkedIn http://ph.linkedin.com/in/markcupitt

 *See me on StackExchange http://gis.stackexchange.com/users/17846/mark-c*


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 The contents of this email are intended only for the individual(s) to whom
 it is addressed and may contain
 confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended
 recipient, you must not disclose, copy, distribute,
 or use the contents of this email. If you have received this email in
 error, please notify the sender immediately and
 delete the email and any attachments.
  
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Re: [HOT] Validation queries

[Nick Allen]

Hi Severin.

4kb limit hence me cropping the message.

I could start with http://tasks.hotosm.org/job/371 (CAR, Bossangoa) - I
wasn't involved in mapping it.

But I'm happy to start anywhere else if you prefer.

Nick

Volunteer 'Tallguy' for
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team

Mapping volunteer 'Tallguy' for http://www.openstreetmap.org

Treasurer, website  Bonus Ball admin for
http://www.6thswanleyscouts.org.uk/ (treasu...@6thswanleyscouts.org.uk)
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[HOT] Validation queries

[Severin MENARD]

 be available, especially in
 the event of a long delay between mapping and validation.

 To be feasible would require that a number of people are willing to
 validate for part of the time they devote to HOT. It would be good to
 target the HOT tasks that have involved recent activity, such as those on
 the featured
 list, but care would be needed as some mapping took place when only poorer
 or older satellite imagery was available.

 In the event that information about who actually marked a square as
 complete is not available, perhaps the message could be sent to the
 individual(s) who have recently mapped in that square? Just marking the
 square as
 validated would provide enough encouragement for most people who continue
 to map with HOT, but the message gives you the opportunity to pass out
 substantially more information - not sure how to manage the communication
 with different languages though!

 I get a great deal of satisfaction from mapping, and would not want to
 validate all the time, but feel that using it as a tool to encourage others
 to continue aiding the project is worth trying.

 If the HOT members feel there is some merit in trying this, I feel it
 should be documented on the wiki, so that messages do not come as a
 surprise, or worry people because they think they are being singled out.

 Thanks for reading - sorry there is so much of my message!

 Regards

 Nick (Tallguy)

 


   Thank you for your email. My answers inline.


 /  Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2014 13:48:00 +
 //  From: Nick Allen nick.allen.54 at gmail.com  
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
 //  To:HOT at openstreetmap.org  
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
 //  Subject: [HOT] Validation queries
 //  Message-ID: 52D29D10.6010009 at gmail.com  
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
 //  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; Format=flowed
 //
 //  Hi,
 //
 //  Would you like me to join in with the validation process? I am
 //  experienced in mapping OSM, but am fairly new to regularly mapping HOT
 //  projects.
 //
 /Would be great! Thanks for the proposition! Indeed you have contributed a
 lot in OSM. Mapping HOT projects is not very complicated, as you saw with
 the Highway_Tag_Africa
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa,
 it is less detailed then in developed countries, at least regarding remote
 mapping. Maybe the difficulty is when you do not know how those contexts
 look like. A goo way to compensate this is to look for videos posted on
 Youtube (examples
 herehttp://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=banguism=3),
 especially the ones taken along road or streets. This is how you figure out
 if properties enclosures are walls, fences or hedges, what is often a
 cultural feature. Ah, just saw you mapped some wall enclosures (eg
 herehttp://www.openstreetmap.org/node/27564988#map=19/4.41952/18.51870).
 They actually are buildings (houses) under construction. It is frequent in
 developing countries that such works last a long time or even be abandoned.

 /
 //  I'm responsible for some of the mapping in
 //  http://tasks.hotosm.org/job/72,  as well as trying to change some of
 the
 //  more obvious 'highway=track to highway=residential or unclassified
 etc..
 //  or it may be easier to check what I've done using my OSM profile
 //
 //
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Tallguy/history#map=13/4.4168/18.4936layers=N
 //
 //  How much validation is actually needed / done? Is it a proportion of
 the
 //  whole task, or just until you are confident that, all things
 considered,
 //  the task is fulfilled? You're never going to get 100% as some things
 //  boil down to opinion about what the images actually are of, but the
 vast
 //  proportion is pretty obvious.
 //
 /This is something that still needs to be settled and documented. I would
 say a validation is about both identifying mistakes/mapping lacks and
 standarzation/consolidation and has 2 or three steps, related to scale:
 1. At neighborhood scale, check notably if:

 - buildings are missing. Sometimes it happens and if actually it
 represents a consequent number of building over a TM task, it can be
 invalidated
 - buildings are correctly traced. Hopefully it is not frequent, but
 sometimes mappers made really coarse outlines that do not respect
 either
 the buildings proportions or angle. More frequent are mappers that do
 not
 know how to square the buildings. In this case, after having checked
 what
 is their preferred editor, I generally send a message to their OSM
 message
 box to give them the tip to do it
 - highway tags are correct. This is what you described. Some mappers
 put
 tracks wherever it is not a main road considering it is not paved, but
 this
 is not a meaningful criteria in these developing countries considering
 99%
 of roads are unpaved.
 - road geometry. Some mappers

Re: [HOT] Validation queries

[Theodin]

Hi Severin and all others,

Although I practically stopped working on OSM in CAR, I am still following the 
list and read your
Wiki-page-style how-to with interest (reading it I realised I didnt make any of 
the errors you
mentioned which is nice :) ). I hope to be able to contribute more in the 
coming months. Its nice to
see so many people emergency-map for OSM (Yolanda etc), and I hope some will 
start to work on other
areas as well which are hit badly by crises of a not-so-obvious nature.

Regards,
Simeon

Am 14.01.2014 19:24, schrieb Severin MENARD:
 Hi Nick,

 Thank you for your email. My answers inline.
  

 Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2014 13:48:00 +
 From: Nick Allen nick.allen...@gmail.com 
 mailto:nick.allen...@gmail.com
 To: HOT@openstreetmap.org mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: [HOT] Validation queries
 Message-ID: 52d29d10.6010...@gmail.com 
 mailto:52d29d10.6010...@gmail.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; Format=flowed

 Hi,

 Would you like me to join in with the validation process? I am
 experienced in mapping OSM, but am fairly new to regularly mapping HOT
 projects.

 Would be great! Thanks for the proposition! Indeed you have contributed a lot 
 in OSM. Mapping HOT
 projects is not very complicated, as you saw with the Highway_Tag_Africa
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa, it is less detailed 
 then in developed
 countries, at least regarding remote mapping. Maybe the difficulty is when 
 you do not know how
 those contexts look like. A goo way to compensate this is to look for videos 
 posted on Youtube
 (examples here http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=banguism=3), 
 especially the ones
 taken along road or streets. This is how you figure out if properties 
 enclosures are walls, fences
 or hedges, what is often a cultural feature. Ah, just saw you mapped some 
 wall enclosures (eg here
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/27564988#map=19/4.41952/18.51870). They 
 actually are buildings
 (houses) under construction. It is frequent in developing countries that such 
 works last a long
 time or even be abandoned. 


 I'm responsible for some of the mapping in
 http://tasks.hotosm.org/job/72, as well as trying to change some of the
 more obvious 'highway=track to highway=residential or unclassified etc..
 or it may be easier to check what I've done using my OSM profile
 
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Tallguy/history#map=13/4.4168/18.4936layers=N

 How much validation is actually needed / done? Is it a proportion of the
 whole task, or just until you are confident that, all things considered,
 the task is fulfilled? You're never going to get 100% as some things
 boil down to opinion about what the images actually are of, but the vast
 proportion is pretty obvious.

 This is something that still needs to be settled and documented. I would say 
 a validation is about
 both identifying mistakes/mapping lacks and standarzation/consolidation and 
 has 2 or three steps,
 related to scale:
 1. At neighborhood scale, check notably if:

   * buildings are missing. Sometimes it happens and if actually it represents 
 a consequent number
 of building over a TM task, it can be invalidated
   * buildings are correctly traced. Hopefully it is not frequent, but 
 sometimes mappers made
 really coarse outlines that do not respect either the buildings 
 proportions or angle. More
 frequent are mappers that do not know how to square the buildings. In 
 this case, after having
 checked what is their preferred editor, I generally send a message to 
 their OSM message box to
 give them the tip to do it
   * highway tags are correct. This is what you described. Some mappers put 
 tracks wherever it is
 not a main road considering it is not paved, but this is not a meaningful 
 criteria in these
 developing countries considering 99% of roads are unpaved. 
   * road geometry. Some mappers do not put enough details and other too much 
 (eg a node every 10
 or 20 m even if the road is straight). First case is quickly corrected 
 with the (magical)
 Improve Way Accuracy mode in JOSM; second case requires deleting extra 
 nodes when they
 actually make weave a straight road. 
   * start/end of roads. Some mappers are experts of giant snake roads or loop 
 roads, Requires to
 pass the mouse over the streets to see their extent and cut them where it 
 makes sense. On the
 contrary, some streets or roads are sawed without any reason (same tags 
 for all the sections)
   * general issues of connections between objects. Some that should be 
 connected and those that
 should not. Requires both Validator and also eye control

  2. at the town or city scale, it is quite related to the road network and 
 its main highways.
 Having a larger view  to identify the highways that are not simple 
 residential roads. They are
 often larger and frame

[HOT] Validation queries

[Nick Allen]

Hi,

Would you like me to join in with the validation process? I am 
experienced in mapping OSM, but am fairly new to regularly mapping HOT 
projects.


I'm responsible for some of the mapping in 
http://tasks.hotosm.org/job/72, as well as trying to change some of the 
more obvious 'highway=track to highway=residential or unclassified etc.. 
or it may be easier to check what I've done using my OSM profile 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Tallguy/history#map=13/4.4168/18.4936layers=N


How much validation is actually needed / done? Is it a proportion of the 
whole task, or just until you are confident that, all things considered, 
the task is fulfilled? You're never going to get 100% as some things 
boil down to opinion about what the images actually are of, but the vast 
proportion is pretty obvious.


Any constructive feedback from experienced HOT mappers is welcomed.


Regards

Nick

Volunteer 'Tallguy' for 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team


Mapping volunteer 'Tallguy' for http://www.openstreetmap.org 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/


Treasurer, website  Bonus Ball admin for 
http://www.6thswanleyscouts.org.uk/ (treasu...@6thswanleyscouts.org.uk 
mailto:treasu...@6thswanleyscouts.org.uk)


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