Re: [MBZ] OT: A reminder that we can't do all the things
I never paid for firewood in Bethesda when I ran two fp inserts full time. I merely listened for the sound of chain saws, then told the crew I would save them a trip to the dump if they cut the trees (usually oak) into 18" lengths and unloaded them on my driveway. I then proceeded to split them with my sledge and wedges. On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 3:13 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > In the “Momolith”, the 4,000SF behemoth we lived in in Indianapolis, it > had an 80% efficient gas furnace and our worst month was about $200. Lots > of open space in that place, too, that was a waste to heat. Best thing in > that place were the heated tile floors in the bathrooms. They had timers on > them that fired them up about 2:00 am (very, very low wattage heat tapes > under the tile) and when you got up in the AM the floor was toasty warm. > Talk about decadent. I was worried about how much it would cost to run > them, but after I set them up and saw how little juice they consumed we > used them continuously throughout the winter months. Something I would > highly recommend to anyone building a house in colder climates. > > My HVAC guy dusts off my auxiliary heater coils once a year before > “winter” so the house doesn’t smell like something is burning the first > time they fire up for the year. That’s my equivalent of “cleaning the flue”. > > Boy, do I not miss winter. I’ll take the risk of a hurricane or two and > hot weather 8 months a year. > > -D shoveling lots and lots of sunshine in 75F weather and planning on > cutting the grass after work > > > > On Feb 5, 2019, at 2:58 PM, Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > > We have a Jotul insert that I burn on days below freezing, which means in > > the winter it will run for many days consecutively, which was as early as > > November this year. It does quite a good job heating nearly the whole > > house thanks to the chimney being in the center. After about two days of > > running, the walls around the chimney are warm to the touch on the second > > floor. We have an oil fired steam boiler which I run for about an hour > in > > the morning to keep it alive and to warm up the house after a cold night. > > The far end of the house us heated by a Fujitsu minisplit always on, a > low > > temperature heating model designed to operate at rated output down to > -4F, > > with other units in the rest of the rooms turned on if needed. > > > > It takes a bit of adjustment and some logistics to keep three heating > > sources working in harmony, but overall keeps the house very warm and > > doesn't cost much. Our first year here burning only oil we spent > > $1000/month (when oil was $4/gallon). I'd guess we're running at about > > $300/month now. > > > > I get the chimney cleaned once a year... how dirty is it really depends > on > > the quality of the wood I burn. I can get a feeling by how much creosote > > builds up on the glass door of the stove. This year I'm burning wood > from > > a tree we cut down about 4 years ago and its well seasoned... lights up > > easily and keeps the glass clean. > > > > Today its in the 60s... last week we hit -2. > > > > Jaime > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 1:58 PM Dwight Giles via Mercedes < > > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > >> Err- a chimney fire in the chimney I had not cleaned in awhile-cold > >> winter, icy roof, busy etc etc, Fortunately we had no fire extension > into > >> the surrounding walls. > >> Dwight E. Giles Jr. > >> Wickford RI > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 1:38 PM Craig via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> On Tue, 5 Feb 2019 13:28:26 -0500 Dwight Giles via Mercedes > >>> wrote: > >>> > Yes, I used to clean out our chimney a couple times a season with > constant wood burning in our Vermont Castings. (6-7 cords a season) > Then there is the time I didn't and had to call my fellow > firefighters. > How embarrassing. Dwight E. Giles Jr. > >>> > >>> And what prompted the embarrasing call to your fellow firefighters? > >>> > >>> > >>> Craig > >>> > >>> ___ > >>> http://www.okiebenz.com > >>> > >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > >>> > >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > >>> > >>> > >> ___ > >> http://www.okiebenz.com > >> > >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > >> > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > >> > >> > > > > -- > > Jaime Kopchinski > > http://www.jaimekop.com/ > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > >
Re: [MBZ] OT: A reminder that we can't do all the things
In the “Momolith”, the 4,000SF behemoth we lived in in Indianapolis, it had an 80% efficient gas furnace and our worst month was about $200. Lots of open space in that place, too, that was a waste to heat. Best thing in that place were the heated tile floors in the bathrooms. They had timers on them that fired them up about 2:00 am (very, very low wattage heat tapes under the tile) and when you got up in the AM the floor was toasty warm. Talk about decadent. I was worried about how much it would cost to run them, but after I set them up and saw how little juice they consumed we used them continuously throughout the winter months. Something I would highly recommend to anyone building a house in colder climates. My HVAC guy dusts off my auxiliary heater coils once a year before “winter” so the house doesn’t smell like something is burning the first time they fire up for the year. That’s my equivalent of “cleaning the flue”. Boy, do I not miss winter. I’ll take the risk of a hurricane or two and hot weather 8 months a year. -D shoveling lots and lots of sunshine in 75F weather and planning on cutting the grass after work > On Feb 5, 2019, at 2:58 PM, Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes > wrote: > > We have a Jotul insert that I burn on days below freezing, which means in > the winter it will run for many days consecutively, which was as early as > November this year. It does quite a good job heating nearly the whole > house thanks to the chimney being in the center. After about two days of > running, the walls around the chimney are warm to the touch on the second > floor. We have an oil fired steam boiler which I run for about an hour in > the morning to keep it alive and to warm up the house after a cold night. > The far end of the house us heated by a Fujitsu minisplit always on, a low > temperature heating model designed to operate at rated output down to -4F, > with other units in the rest of the rooms turned on if needed. > > It takes a bit of adjustment and some logistics to keep three heating > sources working in harmony, but overall keeps the house very warm and > doesn't cost much. Our first year here burning only oil we spent > $1000/month (when oil was $4/gallon). I'd guess we're running at about > $300/month now. > > I get the chimney cleaned once a year... how dirty is it really depends on > the quality of the wood I burn. I can get a feeling by how much creosote > builds up on the glass door of the stove. This year I'm burning wood from > a tree we cut down about 4 years ago and its well seasoned... lights up > easily and keeps the glass clean. > > Today its in the 60s... last week we hit -2. > > Jaime > > > On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 1:58 PM Dwight Giles via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > >> Err- a chimney fire in the chimney I had not cleaned in awhile-cold >> winter, icy roof, busy etc etc, Fortunately we had no fire extension into >> the surrounding walls. >> Dwight E. Giles Jr. >> Wickford RI >> >> >> On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 1:38 PM Craig via Mercedes >> wrote: >> >>> On Tue, 5 Feb 2019 13:28:26 -0500 Dwight Giles via Mercedes >>> wrote: >>> Yes, I used to clean out our chimney a couple times a season with constant wood burning in our Vermont Castings. (6-7 cords a season) Then there is the time I didn't and had to call my fellow firefighters. How embarrassing. Dwight E. Giles Jr. >>> >>> And what prompted the embarrasing call to your fellow firefighters? >>> >>> >>> Craig >>> >>> ___ >>> http://www.okiebenz.com >>> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >>> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>> >>> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> > > -- > Jaime Kopchinski > http://www.jaimekop.com/ > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: A reminder that we can't do all the things
We have a Jotul insert that I burn on days below freezing, which means in the winter it will run for many days consecutively, which was as early as November this year. It does quite a good job heating nearly the whole house thanks to the chimney being in the center. After about two days of running, the walls around the chimney are warm to the touch on the second floor. We have an oil fired steam boiler which I run for about an hour in the morning to keep it alive and to warm up the house after a cold night. The far end of the house us heated by a Fujitsu minisplit always on, a low temperature heating model designed to operate at rated output down to -4F, with other units in the rest of the rooms turned on if needed. It takes a bit of adjustment and some logistics to keep three heating sources working in harmony, but overall keeps the house very warm and doesn't cost much. Our first year here burning only oil we spent $1000/month (when oil was $4/gallon). I'd guess we're running at about $300/month now. I get the chimney cleaned once a year... how dirty is it really depends on the quality of the wood I burn. I can get a feeling by how much creosote builds up on the glass door of the stove. This year I'm burning wood from a tree we cut down about 4 years ago and its well seasoned... lights up easily and keeps the glass clean. Today its in the 60s... last week we hit -2. Jaime On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 1:58 PM Dwight Giles via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > Err- a chimney fire in the chimney I had not cleaned in awhile-cold > winter, icy roof, busy etc etc, Fortunately we had no fire extension into > the surrounding walls. > Dwight E. Giles Jr. > Wickford RI > > > On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 1:38 PM Craig via Mercedes > wrote: > > > On Tue, 5 Feb 2019 13:28:26 -0500 Dwight Giles via Mercedes > > wrote: > > > > > Yes, I used to clean out our chimney a couple times a season with > > > constant wood burning in our Vermont Castings. (6-7 cords a season) > > > Then there is the time I didn't and had to call my fellow firefighters. > > > How embarrassing. Dwight E. Giles Jr. > > > > And what prompted the embarrasing call to your fellow firefighters? > > > > > > Craig > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > -- Jaime Kopchinski http://www.jaimekop.com/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: A reminder that we can't do all the things
Err- a chimney fire in the chimney I had not cleaned in awhile-cold winter, icy roof, busy etc etc, Fortunately we had no fire extension into the surrounding walls. Dwight E. Giles Jr. Wickford RI On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 1:38 PM Craig via Mercedes wrote: > On Tue, 5 Feb 2019 13:28:26 -0500 Dwight Giles via Mercedes > wrote: > > > Yes, I used to clean out our chimney a couple times a season with > > constant wood burning in our Vermont Castings. (6-7 cords a season) > > Then there is the time I didn't and had to call my fellow firefighters. > > How embarrassing. Dwight E. Giles Jr. > > And what prompted the embarrasing call to your fellow firefighters? > > > Craig > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: A reminder that we can't do all the things
I had a wood stove in my old Victorian in the Boston area, burned it constantly through the winter, had a pretty low oil bill. I dropped the chimney flue (I put a new stainless flue in the old brick chimney that served the kitchen cook stove or heat stove back when) down into the basement where I capped the bottom but could take off the cap to run a brush up. I would clean it every year with a brush from below, but never had much of any soot or creosote in it, I would burn it hot every day or two and I guess that cooked most of it out, even though I would close the stove damper at night to keep it burning low. When I sold the house the realtor wanted a list of the past winter's oil bill, it was only $500, she couldn't believe it. Most people were spending a few $k heating similar houses. I only ran the boiler in the mornings and evenings mostly and kept it really low during the day and night. The house had a back stairway near the kitchen so the heat from the woodstove would keep the upstairs nice and warm all night, no need to run the boiler. I would get wood from the tree dump in the office park I worked in, and the town maintenance guys would occasionally drop off maple and oak trees they had cut down, or let me go to the town tree dump and collect wood. Never bought any (except for the cost of a few 6packs to the town guys), but it warmed me twice! --FT On 2/5/19 1:36 PM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes wrote: Some jobs really are worth hiring someone to do them is the lesson there. They clean our oil furnace chimney from below but it is only one storey. (British spelling) Dwight E. Giles Jr. Wickford RI On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 1:32 PM Dimitri via Mercedes wrote: I did that job once but from below. Same screw together type brush. I went 40 feet to top of chimney. I covered everything in the room with plastic and wore a respirator. I have little desire to do it again. Sent from my iPhone On Feb 5, 2019, at 1:23 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: We supplement our oil heat with wood, usually about 2 cords a year, through a Jotul 118 stove in the basement. In a pinch the stove is enough to keep the house comfortably warm without the furnace,its good backup. Normally we get the chimney cleaned every 2 years, I discussed this with our chimney sweep, in fact it was his idea. We burn mostly hardwood and since this is supplemental heat we burn the stove hot, never really damping it down and creating creosote. Well somehow time has gotten away from us and we've gone 4 years. We've got a handyman who was going to clean it (not our regular guy) but he's had family issues. He got so far as to bring his chimney brush over and today since its in the high '50s I thought I'd give it a shot. Problem 1: I'm not good with heightsProblem 2: His brush sucks, its the screw together type and looks like it lived under the ocean for awhile.Problem 3: Our roof is steep. I hadn't considered this before, its real steep.Problem 4: Its hard to hold on to the sections of the brush while feeding it down the chimney and adding sections and the sections are too heavy to leave it all assembled. It must be really hard sweeping a 2 or 3 story house... Anyway I got it done at least somewhat. The clean-out had a bunch of reddish powder in it and fortunately I didn't find any of the tar-like stuff I associate with creosote. I feel confident we can finish out this season but I'll definitely give our regular guy a nice tip next time he does the job! -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- --FT ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: A reminder that we can't do all the things
Some jobs really are worth hiring someone to do them is the lesson there. They clean our oil furnace chimney from below but it is only one storey. (British spelling) Dwight E. Giles Jr. Wickford RI On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 1:32 PM Dimitri via Mercedes wrote: > I did that job once but from below. Same screw together type brush. I went > 40 feet to top of chimney. I covered everything in the room with plastic > and wore a respirator. I have little desire to do it again. > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Feb 5, 2019, at 1:23 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > > We supplement our oil heat with wood, usually about 2 cords a year, > through a Jotul 118 stove in the basement. In a pinch the stove is enough > to keep the house comfortably warm without the furnace,its good backup. > > Normally we get the chimney cleaned every 2 years, I discussed this with > our chimney sweep, in fact it was his idea. We burn mostly hardwood and > since this is supplemental heat we burn the stove hot, never really damping > it down and creating creosote. > > Well somehow time has gotten away from us and we've gone 4 years. We've > got a handyman who was going to clean it (not our regular guy) but he's had > family issues. He got so far as to bring his chimney brush over and today > since its in the high '50s I thought I'd give it a shot. > > Problem 1: I'm not good with heightsProblem 2: His brush sucks, its the > screw together type and looks like it lived under the ocean for > awhile.Problem 3: Our roof is steep. I hadn't considered this before, its > real steep.Problem 4: Its hard to hold on to the sections of the brush > while feeding it down the chimney and adding sections and the sections are > too heavy to leave it all assembled. > > It must be really hard sweeping a 2 or 3 story house... > > Anyway I got it done at least somewhat. The clean-out had a bunch of > reddish powder in it and fortunately I didn't find any of the tar-like > stuff I associate with creosote. I feel confident we can finish out this > season but I'll definitely give our regular guy a nice tip next time he > does the job! > > -Curt > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: A reminder that we can't do all the things
The flue fire he had as a result of not cleaning it, I’m sure. We had one in our first house, which had a wood burning insert in the brick fireplace. Previous owner said they had it cleaned before they sold the house. One of many lies they told us, but it was our first house and we were ignorant about getting an inspection. First and only homeowner’s insurance claim we’ve ever had (so far.) Sounds like a jet engine on full throttle. Not pleasant. -D > On Feb 5, 2019, at 1:37 PM, Craig via Mercedes wrote: > > On Tue, 5 Feb 2019 13:28:26 -0500 Dwight Giles via Mercedes > wrote: > >> Yes, I used to clean out our chimney a couple times a season with >> constant wood burning in our Vermont Castings. (6-7 cords a season) >> Then there is the time I didn't and had to call my fellow firefighters. >> How embarrassing. Dwight E. Giles Jr. > > And what prompted the embarrasing call to your fellow firefighters? > > > Craig > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: A reminder that we can't do all the things
On Tue, 5 Feb 2019 13:28:26 -0500 Dwight Giles via Mercedes wrote: > Yes, I used to clean out our chimney a couple times a season with > constant wood burning in our Vermont Castings. (6-7 cords a season) > Then there is the time I didn't and had to call my fellow firefighters. > How embarrassing. Dwight E. Giles Jr. And what prompted the embarrasing call to your fellow firefighters? Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: A reminder that we can't do all the things
I hadn't thought of the mess, partway down I started thinking I might have wanted to try this from the bottom, glad I didn't. I couldn't have fit this brush up through the clean-out anyway. I was smart enough to lay down some paper before I opened the clean-out. Very little mess scooping out the stuff. -Curt On Tuesday, February 5, 2019, 1:31:55 PM EST, Dimitri wrote: I did that job once but from below. Same screw together type brush. I went 40 feet to top of chimney. I covered everything in the room with plastic and wore a respirator. I have little desire to do it again. Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 5, 2019, at 1:23 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes > wrote: > > We supplement our oil heat with wood, usually about 2 cords a year, through a > Jotul 118 stove in the basement. In a pinch the stove is enough to keep the > house comfortably warm without the furnace,its good backup. > Normally we get the chimney cleaned every 2 years, I discussed this with our > chimney sweep, in fact it was his idea. We burn mostly hardwood and since > this is supplemental heat we burn the stove hot, never really damping it down > and creating creosote. > Well somehow time has gotten away from us and we've gone 4 years. We've got a > handyman who was going to clean it (not our regular guy) but he's had family > issues. He got so far as to bring his chimney brush over and today since its > in the high '50s I thought I'd give it a shot. > Problem 1: I'm not good with heightsProblem 2: His brush sucks, its the screw > together type and looks like it lived under the ocean for awhile.Problem 3: > Our roof is steep. I hadn't considered this before, its real steep.Problem 4: > Its hard to hold on to the sections of the brush while feeding it down the > chimney and adding sections and the sections are too heavy to leave it all > assembled. > It must be really hard sweeping a 2 or 3 story house... > Anyway I got it done at least somewhat. The clean-out had a bunch of reddish > powder in it and fortunately I didn't find any of the tar-like stuff I > associate with creosote. I feel confident we can finish out this season but > I'll definitely give our regular guy a nice tip next time he does the job! > -Curt > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: A reminder that we can't do all the things
I did that job once but from below. Same screw together type brush. I went 40 feet to top of chimney. I covered everything in the room with plastic and wore a respirator. I have little desire to do it again. Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 5, 2019, at 1:23 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes > wrote: > > We supplement our oil heat with wood, usually about 2 cords a year, through a > Jotul 118 stove in the basement. In a pinch the stove is enough to keep the > house comfortably warm without the furnace,its good backup. > Normally we get the chimney cleaned every 2 years, I discussed this with our > chimney sweep, in fact it was his idea. We burn mostly hardwood and since > this is supplemental heat we burn the stove hot, never really damping it down > and creating creosote. > Well somehow time has gotten away from us and we've gone 4 years. We've got a > handyman who was going to clean it (not our regular guy) but he's had family > issues. He got so far as to bring his chimney brush over and today since its > in the high '50s I thought I'd give it a shot. > Problem 1: I'm not good with heightsProblem 2: His brush sucks, its the screw > together type and looks like it lived under the ocean for awhile.Problem 3: > Our roof is steep. I hadn't considered this before, its real steep.Problem 4: > Its hard to hold on to the sections of the brush while feeding it down the > chimney and adding sections and the sections are too heavy to leave it all > assembled. > It must be really hard sweeping a 2 or 3 story house... > Anyway I got it done at least somewhat. The clean-out had a bunch of reddish > powder in it and fortunately I didn't find any of the tar-like stuff I > associate with creosote. I feel confident we can finish out this season but > I'll definitely give our regular guy a nice tip next time he does the job! > -Curt > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: A reminder that we can't do all the things
Yes, I used to clean out our chimney a couple times a season with constant wood burning in our Vermont Castings. (6-7 cords a season) Then there is the time I didn't and had to call my fellow firefighters. How embarrassing. Dwight E. Giles Jr. Wickford RI On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 1:24 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > We supplement our oil heat with wood, usually about 2 cords a year, > through a Jotul 118 stove in the basement. In a pinch the stove is enough > to keep the house comfortably warm without the furnace,its good backup. > Normally we get the chimney cleaned every 2 years, I discussed this with > our chimney sweep, in fact it was his idea. We burn mostly hardwood and > since this is supplemental heat we burn the stove hot, never really damping > it down and creating creosote. > Well somehow time has gotten away from us and we've gone 4 years. We've > got a handyman who was going to clean it (not our regular guy) but he's had > family issues. He got so far as to bring his chimney brush over and today > since its in the high '50s I thought I'd give it a shot. > Problem 1: I'm not good with heightsProblem 2: His brush sucks, its the > screw together type and looks like it lived under the ocean for > awhile.Problem 3: Our roof is steep. I hadn't considered this before, its > real steep.Problem 4: Its hard to hold on to the sections of the brush > while feeding it down the chimney and adding sections and the sections are > too heavy to leave it all assembled. > It must be really hard sweeping a 2 or 3 story house... > Anyway I got it done at least somewhat. The clean-out had a bunch of > reddish powder in it and fortunately I didn't find any of the tar-like > stuff I associate with creosote. I feel confident we can finish out this > season but I'll definitely give our regular guy a nice tip next time he > does the job! > -Curt > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
Good point. This is the way Chavez kept Venezuela primed for his socialist progroms. No poo paper, no milk, no bread, no rice, no staples available unless you wait in line. Meantime, the folks with money are able to shop in Miami and fly high quality merchandise home in their Cessna. Lots of subsidized fuel available, and if the rich are able to wipe their butts, they must be the source of all the trouble. Blame them for the lack of agriculture and industry, because the government and military are building you slums to live in and erecting schools, but not encouraging the average worker to remain on a farm, where his labor will enhance the nation. clay On Jun 8, 2013, at 7:45 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote: Mountain Man wrote: The current round of scandal only pushes their thresholds.. Gun sales are hot, but I also hear the market has been robbed by huge govt purchases, so of course consumer market is no-longer-available. Even if everyone has guns, will anyone ever use them in a Redneck Spring? .. Gimme bigmac and tv and I am happy - go away. -- First, the so-called Government buy (1.6B rounds) is a requirements contract and very little has actually been ordered. For civilian suppliers, like Hornady, government is less than 10% of their business. Second, if a fraction of the population can clean out the ammo shelves in a few weeks, how long will it take to clean out the grocery shelves if there is panic buying? And when the shelves are bare and the gas tank is empty there will be no complacency. Some people act like animals at the Golden Corral now. What do you expect during a real shortage? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
My six year old cousin was almost expelled in January because he has a thumb and index finger. He was caught brandishing this on school property and they have a zero tolerance policy. I think they are planning on chopping off thumbs for a dual purpose of reducing texting and violence. clay On Jun 8, 2013, at 8:06 PM, Mitch Haley wrote: Scott Ritchey wrote: What is so amazing is that all this is a response to a vague and undefined threat of a possible future restriction on 2nd amendment rights. 1. We know what Obama wants to do to handguns and repeating rifles, and that he expected to do it after that elementary school shooting in December. 2. We've seen what California, NY, NJ, and Colorado have passed so far this year. 3. The California General Assembly passed a ban on lead bullets this week. If the upper house passes it, the Governor will sign it into law immediately. http://gunssavelives.net/blog/breaking-california-general-assembly-votes-to-essentially-ban-almost-all-hunting-ammunition/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
clay wrote: My six year old cousin was almost expelled in January because he has a thumb and index finger. He was caught brandishing this on school property and they have a zero tolerance policy. I think they are planning on chopping off thumbs for a dual purpose of reducing texting and violence. So, you'd identify with this situation: http://dailycaller.com/2013/01/03/maryland-school-suspends-six-year-old-boy-for-making-gun-gesture-saying-pow/ Remember the kid who sculpted a Pop-Tart by chewing away the parts that didn't vaguely resemble a pistol and got suspended? IIRC, his attorney claimed that the states of Idaho and Florida are shaped more like pistols than the Pop-Tart in question. http://dailycaller.com/2013/03/02/second-grader-suspended-for-having-breakfast-pastry-shaped-like-a-gun/ Then there's the 8th grader in Logan County West Virgina who got ARRESTED for disagreeing with a teacher over whether his NRA t-shirt violated the dress code. (turns out the shirt didn't violate anything) http://dailycaller.com/2013/04/23/eighth-grader-arrested-over-nra-shirt-returns-to-school-in-same-shirt/ Another 8th grader got in trouble for a Marine Corps t-shirt: http://dailycaller.com/2013/02/27/junior-high-teacher-tells-kid-to-remove-marines-t-shirt-or-get-suspended/ A kindergartener got in big trouble over a cap gun, and his family claims the school is lying about what he did with it: http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/31/kindergartener-interrogated-over-cap-gun-until-he-pees-his-pants-then-suspended-10-days Then there's the girl who terroristically threatened to bring her Hello Kitty soap bubble gun to school: http://dailycaller.com/2013/01/19/kindergartener-suspended-for-making-terroristic-threat-with-hello-kitty-bubble-gun/ Even the ultra-progressive Huffington Post was upset at the treatment (almost certainly in violation of the ADA) a deaf three year old got last year because school authorities didn't like the way he signed his name (looks to me a lot like a Peace sign). http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/28/hunter-spanjer-3-year-old_n_1836159.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
Interestingly this is one of the few subjects my super conservative dad and I agree on. The people buying ammo now are sheep who don't remember 4 years ago when we had the exact same shortage of the exact same ammo. It lasted about 2 years after Obama got elected. It all started because some right wing idiots (not that all right wingers are idiots, I'm trying to weed some out of the herd) decided Obama's gonna take our guns so they better stock up, put guns in cosmolene and bury 'em with ammo for later. A couple years later Obama has done no such thing so life gets more or less back to normal. Most big box retailers get a truck every single day with some stuff in it but theres no telling what stuff exactly. Go to any Wal-Mart or Cabellas any given day and you'll find a couple old duffers convinced that their guns will soon be taken by The Government. They can't tell you who or under what law or anything but they're convinced. They go into the store and buy all the .22 ammo (mostly the .22 long rifle stuff, the shortage of which gets the other conspiracy theorists to buy up the stock of .223 and whatnot) that got delivered that day. If theres a limit they'll buy some and come back tomorrow. We've got about 18 more months of this foolishness before things go back to normal. Whats worse is some places have driven up prices because of it and some people are paying those prices just to be able to get out and shoot. What will be hilarious (in an I told you so kind of way) is in about 10 or 15 years when the duffers start to die off and their families are left with this huge pile of ammo which will get sold off at bargain basement prices driving the market into a tailspin. At that point the right will conspiracy theorists will blame it on government something, again they won't know who or why but they won't remember whats going on right now. Anybody with some money and an entrepreneurial bent out to start an ammunition factory right now. Plan on running it for 16 months and then sell. As soon as the fervor burns out you won't be able to make it as a small manufacturer but for now you could make a little money and then make money on the sale. I'd do it myself if I had money and knowhow. -Curt Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2013 21:13:12 -0400 From: Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder Message-ID: E3E52810289D46EFA2EDC6CEC10004EB@ScottHPPC Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii Since December gun and ammo sales have been limited only by availability; you can't sell what you don't have. A full year's worth of inventory sold out in weeks. Most manufacturers are now running at full capacity, and have been for some time. Ammo (when you can find it) now costs 2-3x the price in Nov 2012, and folks still buy every box they find, at least on common calibers. What is so amazing is that all this is a response to a vague and undefined threat of a possible future restriction on 2nd amendment rights. Traditional gun people view this situation with mixed feelings. On one hand, it is gratifying to see that a large segment of the public values their rights. But on the other hand, there are a large number of people now who are armed but who may lack basic training on firearm safety and related law. Plus, it's hard to get ammo for maintaining proficiency. --- On Saturday, June 08, 2013 5:58 PM, G Mann wrote To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder If you believe apathy rules... better check your local gun store.. or even your local Walmart ammunition sales area... SOLD OUT.. and have been for months.. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
Curt Raymond wrote: Anybody with some money and an entrepreneurial bent out to start an ammunition factory right now. Plan on running it for 16 months and then sell. As soon as the fervor burns out you won't be able to make it as a small manufacturer but for now you could make a little money and then make money on the sale. I'd do it myself if I had money and knowhow. Who's going to sell you a few million primers and cases to get your factory up and running? Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
It's funny, as my former employers, both right wingers, one more so than the other, played into this panic in 2008. Since they both have a fair amount of disposable income, they were buying up rounds of every possible type and size that fit their large collection of firearms. Our postal carrier hated delivering to our business, as many of these ammo manufacturers used USPS Priority Mail to deliver their products. This means a typical day's delivery might consist of 5-6 large 60 pound boxes. These guys seemed to be in a mild panic, calling and emailing suppliers on a daily basis to buy up whatever they could get their hands on. Anything under 1000 rounds was not acceptable. I always chuckled about this, as I figured 10 years from now they'll have this huge pile of ammo they will never use... Dan Sent from my iPad On Jun 9, 2013, at 9:07 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: Interestingly this is one of the few subjects my super conservative dad and I agree on. The people buying ammo now are sheep who don't remember 4 years ago when we had the exact same shortage of the exact same ammo. It lasted about 2 years after Obama got elected. It all started because some right wing idiots (not that all right wingers are idiots, I'm trying to weed some out of the herd) decided Obama's gonna take our guns so they better stock up, put guns in cosmolene and bury 'em with ammo for later. A couple years later Obama has done no such thing so life gets more or less back to normal. Most big box retailers get a truck every single day with some stuff in it but theres no telling what stuff exactly. Go to any Wal-Mart or Cabellas any given day and you'll find a couple old duffers convinced that their guns will soon be taken by The Government. They can't tell you who or under what law or anything but they're convinced. They go into the store and buy all the .22 ammo (mostly the .22 long rifle stuff, the shortage of which gets the other conspiracy theorists to buy up the stock of .223 and whatnot) that got delivered that day. If theres a limit they'll buy some and come back tomorrow. We've got about 18 more months of this foolishness before things go back to normal. Whats worse is some places have driven up prices because of it and some people are paying those prices just to be able to get out and shoot. What will be hilarious (in an I told you so kind of way) is in about 10 or 15 years when the duffers start to die off and their families are left with this huge pile of ammo which will get sold off at bargain basement prices driving the market into a tailspin. At that point the right will conspiracy theorists will blame it on government something, again they won't know who or why but they won't remember whats going on right now. Anybody with some money and an entrepreneurial bent out to start an ammunition factory right now. Plan on running it for 16 months and then sell. As soon as the fervor burns out you won't be able to make it as a small manufacturer but for now you could make a little money and then make money on the sale. I'd do it myself if I had money and knowhow. -Curt Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2013 21:13:12 -0400 From: Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder Message-ID: E3E52810289D46EFA2EDC6CEC10004EB@ScottHPPC Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii Since December gun and ammo sales have been limited only by availability; you can't sell what you don't have. A full year's worth of inventory sold out in weeks. Most manufacturers are now running at full capacity, and have been for some time. Ammo (when you can find it) now costs 2-3x the price in Nov 2012, and folks still buy every box they find, at least on common calibers. What is so amazing is that all this is a response to a vague and undefined threat of a possible future restriction on 2nd amendment rights. Traditional gun people view this situation with mixed feelings. On one hand, it is gratifying to see that a large segment of the public values their rights. But on the other hand, there are a large number of people now who are armed but who may lack basic training on firearm safety and related law. Plus, it's hard to get ammo for maintaining proficiency. --- On Saturday, June 08, 2013 5:58 PM, G Mann wrote To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder If you believe apathy rules... better check your local gun store.. or even your local Walmart ammunition sales area... SOLD OUT.. and have been for months.. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
At 10:34 AM -0700 6/8/13, Greg Fiorentino wrote: As I have taught my children: violence is NEVER a good solution. (But sometimes it is the ONLY solution). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XazOmi4yIbU A riot is an ungly thing... undt, I tink, that it is chust about time ve had vun! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
You'd need to be able to make primers I guess. Dad says cases aren't all that hard to get. Realistically right now .22 ammo (or .223 I suppose) is the place to make money. If theres an unreasonable thing to buy out its .22, its not much of a self defense round and its extremely unlikely (other than that stupid California thing which won't stand) to be banned. -Curt Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2013 09:11:05 -0400 From: Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder Message-ID: 51b47ee9.6090...@voyager.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Curt Raymond wrote: Anybody with some money and an entrepreneurial bent out to start an ammunition factory right now. Plan on running it for 16 months and then sell. As soon as the fervor burns out you won't be able to make it as a small manufacturer but for now you could make a little money and then make money on the sale. I'd do it myself if I had money and knowhow. Who's going to sell you a few million primers and cases to get your factory up and running? Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
Actually right now you could probably sell at a fair profit. The good thing is ammo really doesn't go bad. I've shot stuff that was WWI surplus that still shot reasonably well. -Curt Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2013 09:17:58 -0400 From: Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder Message-ID: a61d65c4-4e7f-4671-ad77-d8337c10e...@penoff.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii It's funny, as my former employers, both right wingers, one more so than the other, played into this panic in 2008. Since they both have a fair amount of disposable income, they were buying up rounds of every possible type and size that fit their large collection of firearms. Our postal carrier hated delivering to our business, as many of these ammo manufacturers used USPS Priority Mail to deliver their products. This means a typical day's delivery might consist of 5-6 large 60 pound boxes. These guys seemed to be in a mild panic, calling and emailing suppliers on a daily basis to buy up whatever they could get their hands on. Anything under 1000 rounds was not acceptable. I always chuckled about this, as I figured 10 years from now they'll have this huge pile of ammo they will never use... Dan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
G Mann wrote: The effect of said Redneck Spring [apologies to all honorable rednecks for commandeering the term, with special exclusion for Andrew ;)] will be a series of actions which quickly and with considerable use of force, remove offending departments and persons in government from power, much like you saw in Egypt or Lybia with the removal of leaders who had held power for long periods. A couple of novels predict something like that, one out of print, one not gone to print yet: http://www.zjstech.net/~ddixson/Unintended_Consequences.pdf http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2009/10/absolved-chapter-one-battle-of-sipsey.html http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2009/11/absolved-chapter-five-dead-mans-holler.html http://westernrifleshooters.blogspot.com/2008/09/vanderboegh-predator.html http://westernrifleshooters.blogspot.com/2008/11/vanderboegh-absolved-squad-rubicon.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
Count me out. I have too much work to do on my cars and in the garden, On Sat, Jun 8, 2013 at 6:44 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: G Mann wrote: The effect of said Redneck Spring [apologies to all honorable rednecks for commandeering the term, with special exclusion for Andrew ;)] will be a series of actions which quickly and with considerable use of force, remove offending departments and persons in government from power, much like you saw in Egypt or Lybia with the removal of leaders who had held power for long periods. A couple of novels predict something like that, one out of print, one not gone to print yet: http://www.zjstech.net/~**ddixson/Unintended_**Consequences.pdfhttp://www.zjstech.net/~ddixson/Unintended_Consequences.pdf http://sipseystreetirregulars.**blogspot.com/2009/10/absolved-** chapter-one-battle-of-sipsey.**htmlhttp://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2009/10/absolved-chapter-one-battle-of-sipsey.html http://sipseystreetirregulars.**blogspot.com/2009/11/absolved-** chapter-five-dead-mans-holler.**htmlhttp://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2009/11/absolved-chapter-five-dead-mans-holler.html http://westernrifleshooters.**blogspot.com/2008/09/** vanderboegh-predator.htmlhttp://westernrifleshooters.blogspot.com/2008/09/vanderboegh-predator.html http://westernrifleshooters.**blogspot.com/2008/11/** vanderboegh-absolved-squad-**rubicon.htmlhttp://westernrifleshooters.blogspot.com/2008/11/vanderboegh-absolved-squad-rubicon.html __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
Art imitates life... or life imitates art... in either case.. the human spirit is hard wired to survive. The Founding Fathers tapped into that spirit in the formation of the rules of government set out in Constitution. That single thing is why millions of humans from thousands of places, over two centuries, ran to America, and still do [12 million or so from Mexico alone, with an invitation]. I see the writer in both cases recognized this basic of human principles.. I still predict the public will also... perhaps with force.. perhaps by ballot... we get to choose, according to the Bill of Rights.. Good planning.. don't you think? On Sat, Jun 8, 2013 at 3:44 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: G Mann wrote: The effect of said Redneck Spring [apologies to all honorable rednecks for commandeering the term, with special exclusion for Andrew ;)] will be a series of actions which quickly and with considerable use of force, remove offending departments and persons in government from power, much like you saw in Egypt or Lybia with the removal of leaders who had held power for long periods. A couple of novels predict something like that, one out of print, one not gone to print yet: http://www.zjstech.net/~**ddixson/Unintended_**Consequences.pdfhttp://www.zjstech.net/~ddixson/Unintended_Consequences.pdf http://sipseystreetirregulars.**blogspot.com/2009/10/absolved-** chapter-one-battle-of-sipsey.**htmlhttp://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2009/10/absolved-chapter-one-battle-of-sipsey.html http://sipseystreetirregulars.**blogspot.com/2009/11/absolved-** chapter-five-dead-mans-holler.**htmlhttp://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2009/11/absolved-chapter-five-dead-mans-holler.html http://westernrifleshooters.**blogspot.com/2008/09/** vanderboegh-predator.htmlhttp://westernrifleshooters.blogspot.com/2008/09/vanderboegh-predator.html http://westernrifleshooters.**blogspot.com/2008/11/** vanderboegh-absolved-squad-**rubicon.htmlhttp://westernrifleshooters.blogspot.com/2008/11/vanderboegh-absolved-squad-rubicon.html __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
I'm with Andrew on this one. While I do believe that the 2nd. amendment indeed serves the ultimate purpose of enabling armed insurrection in the most extreme circumstances, I strongly believe that all of our other options that the framers of our political system prepared for us will rectify the problems long before that would become necessary. The internet, the phone and even the written letter still have a great deal of power. If enough people get PO'd we will throw the rascals out without resorting to violence. As I have taught my children: violence is NEVER a good solution. (But sometimes it is the ONLY solution). Greg -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Strasfogel Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2013 5:13 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder Count me out. I have too much work to do on my cars and in the garden, On Sat, Jun 8, 2013 at 6:44 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: G Mann wrote: The effect of said Redneck Spring [apologies to all honorable rednecks for commandeering the term, with special exclusion for Andrew ;)] will be a series of actions which quickly and with considerable use of force, remove offending departments and persons in government from power, much like you saw in Egypt or Lybia with the removal of leaders who had held power for long periods. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
Greg wrote: ...I strongly believe that all of our other options that the framers of our political system prepared for us will rectify the problems long before that would become necessary. As I have taught my children: violence is NEVER a good solution. (But sometimes it is the ONLY solution). Violence is never a solution. However, at what point do we come to recognize that we are head-in-sand regarding the reality that all of our options are no longer available? Vote? - how much fraud does it take to recognize that this option is flawed? Correspondence? - how many staff members does it take to realize that our thoughts do not matter? How many stories about the lobbyists in all politics does it take to realize that politics is tied to $$? My continuing frustration is that there are zero solutions. I want to see solutions expressed. Grant has laid out a scenario that sounds very plausible if undesireable, but zero solution. Simply more hand wringing, greater complacency, more apathy. I don't see the Redneck Spring happening, primarily because of the universal complacency and apathy tied to our sheople mentality fed by all media. We are doomed. If we are not doomed, paint the probable scenario, please. Tell us there is difference between the administrations of Clinton/Bush/Obama. All are ruled by $ and no amount of vote or correspondence moves any of this. We are being played. Think about it. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
If you believe apathy rules... better check your local gun store.. or even your local Walmart ammunition sales area... SOLD OUT.. and have been for months.. Go to a gun show.. thousands of citizens, legally arming themselves... because they do not feel safe... Gun sales have set new records every week since 20 Jan 2008.. fact easily checked.. It has been about 35 years since I wrote a CIA white paper, but the same skill set still applies.. I just call it as I'm seeing it.. the citizens are alarmed.. spending money in a down economy, to secure themselves and their property as best they can.. The current round of scandal only pushes their thresholds.. I see a reaction very likely. As posted above.. the public perception is that election is now fraud.. their vote is without hope. Other options are being thought of.. how those manifest I can not truly predict.. except to predict there will be an action forthcoming.. a strong one. Your personal mileage may vary.. your complete personal option. I respect that. Grant... On Sat, Jun 8, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Mountain Man maontin@gmail.com wrote: Greg wrote: ...I strongly believe that all of our other options that the framers of our political system prepared for us will rectify the problems long before that would become necessary. As I have taught my children: violence is NEVER a good solution. (But sometimes it is the ONLY solution). Violence is never a solution. However, at what point do we come to recognize that we are head-in-sand regarding the reality that all of our options are no longer available? Vote? - how much fraud does it take to recognize that this option is flawed? Correspondence? - how many staff members does it take to realize that our thoughts do not matter? How many stories about the lobbyists in all politics does it take to realize that politics is tied to $$? My continuing frustration is that there are zero solutions. I want to see solutions expressed. Grant has laid out a scenario that sounds very plausible if undesireable, but zero solution. Simply more hand wringing, greater complacency, more apathy. I don't see the Redneck Spring happening, primarily because of the universal complacency and apathy tied to our sheople mentality fed by all media. We are doomed. If we are not doomed, paint the probable scenario, please. Tell us there is difference between the administrations of Clinton/Bush/Obama. All are ruled by $ and no amount of vote or correspondence moves any of this. We are being played. Think about it. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
You know what is really absurd about all this? I get 2-3 calls a day about credit cards, a free cruise, other crap, from robocallers. My phone is on the DoNotCall list. These outfits call millions of people a day. I even get them on my cell phone. You would think the NSA could track down whoever they are and send a drone right up their... call servers, while they are monitoring my phone, email, facebook, web browsing, and when I take a leak. I would gladly pay a dollar or two for them to do that, and see if I could get a few million other people to do the same. --R On 6/8/13 5:57 PM, G Mann wrote: If you believe apathy rules... better check your local gun store.. or even your local Walmart ammunition sales area... SOLD OUT.. and have been for months.. Go to a gun show.. thousands of citizens, legally arming themselves... because they do not feel safe... Gun sales have set new records every week since 20 Jan 2008.. fact easily checked.. It has been about 35 years since I wrote a CIA white paper, but the same skill set still applies.. I just call it as I'm seeing it.. the citizens are alarmed.. spending money in a down economy, to secure themselves and their property as best they can.. The current round of scandal only pushes their thresholds.. I see a reaction very likely. As posted above.. the public perception is that election is now fraud.. their vote is without hope. Other options are being thought of.. how those manifest I can not truly predict.. except to predict there will be an action forthcoming.. a strong one. Your personal mileage may vary.. your complete personal option. I respect that. Grant... On Sat, Jun 8, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Mountain Man maontin@gmail.com wrote: Greg wrote: ...I strongly believe that all of our other options that the framers of our political system prepared for us will rectify the problems long before that would become necessary. As I have taught my children: violence is NEVER a good solution. (But sometimes it is the ONLY solution). Violence is never a solution. However, at what point do we come to recognize that we are head-in-sand regarding the reality that all of our options are no longer available? Vote? - how much fraud does it take to recognize that this option is flawed? Correspondence? - how many staff members does it take to realize that our thoughts do not matter? How many stories about the lobbyists in all politics does it take to realize that politics is tied to $$? My continuing frustration is that there are zero solutions. I want to see solutions expressed. Grant has laid out a scenario that sounds very plausible if undesireable, but zero solution. Simply more hand wringing, greater complacency, more apathy. I don't see the Redneck Spring happening, primarily because of the universal complacency and apathy tied to our sheople mentality fed by all media. We are doomed. If we are not doomed, paint the probable scenario, please. Tell us there is difference between the administrations of Clinton/Bush/Obama. All are ruled by $ and no amount of vote or correspondence moves any of this. We are being played. Think about it. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
My phone is supposedly on DoNotCall list, too, but I keep, getting calls about my credit card that doesn't have a problem (it really doesn't, 'cause I keep it paid in full before any interest is charged), FBI saying that I need a security alarm, which I've had for 24 years, some guy wanting to deliver a health emergency alarm that somebody has already paid for (damned guy keeps right on talking when I tell 'im, When I want/need one, I'll ask for it.) Police Benevolent Assoc. wanting money that I thought I had paid in taxes, University Alumni Assoc. and Nat Geographic wanting me to buy more books, etc., on and on. I occasionally tell 'em, I charge $5 per minute to listen; I'll start listening when you give me your credit card #. Haven't gotten anybody's card #, yet, but phone keeps right on ringing with same crap over and over. Wilton - Original Message - From: Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2013 6:34 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder You know what is really absurd about all this? I get 2-3 calls a day about credit cards, a free cruise, other crap, from robocallers. My phone is on the DoNotCall list. These outfits call millions of people a day. I even get them on my cell phone. You would think the NSA could track down whoever they are and send a drone right up their... call servers, while they are monitoring my phone, email, facebook, web browsing, and when I take a leak. I would gladly pay a dollar or two for them to do that, and see if I could get a few million other people to do the same. --R On 6/8/13 5:57 PM, G Mann wrote: If you believe apathy rules... better check your local gun store.. or even your local Walmart ammunition sales area... SOLD OUT.. and have been for months.. Go to a gun show.. thousands of citizens, legally arming themselves... because they do not feel safe... Gun sales have set new records every week since 20 Jan 2008.. fact easily checked.. It has been about 35 years since I wrote a CIA white paper, but the same skill set still applies.. I just call it as I'm seeing it.. the citizens are alarmed.. spending money in a down economy, to secure themselves and their property as best they can.. The current round of scandal only pushes their thresholds.. I see a reaction very likely. As posted above.. the public perception is that election is now fraud.. their vote is without hope. Other options are being thought of.. how those manifest I can not truly predict.. except to predict there will be an action forthcoming.. a strong one. Your personal mileage may vary.. your complete personal option. I respect that. Grant... On Sat, Jun 8, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Mountain Man maontin@gmail.com wrote: Greg wrote: ...I strongly believe that all of our other options that the framers of our political system prepared for us will rectify the problems long before that would become necessary. As I have taught my children: violence is NEVER a good solution. (But sometimes it is the ONLY solution). Violence is never a solution. However, at what point do we come to recognize that we are head-in-sand regarding the reality that all of our options are no longer available? Vote? - how much fraud does it take to recognize that this option is flawed? Correspondence? - how many staff members does it take to realize that our thoughts do not matter? How many stories about the lobbyists in all politics does it take to realize that politics is tied to $$? My continuing frustration is that there are zero solutions. I want to see solutions expressed. Grant has laid out a scenario that sounds very plausible if undesireable, but zero solution. Simply more hand wringing, greater complacency, more apathy. I don't see the Redneck Spring happening, primarily because of the universal complacency and apathy tied to our sheople mentality fed by all media. We are doomed. If we are not doomed, paint the probable scenario, please. Tell us there is difference between the administrations of Clinton/Bush/Obama. All are ruled by $ and no amount of vote or correspondence moves any of this. We are being played. Think about it. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
Since December gun and ammo sales have been limited only by availability; you can't sell what you don't have. A full year's worth of inventory sold out in weeks. Most manufacturers are now running at full capacity, and have been for some time. Ammo (when you can find it) now costs 2-3x the price in Nov 2012, and folks still buy every box they find, at least on common calibers. What is so amazing is that all this is a response to a vague and undefined threat of a possible future restriction on 2nd amendment rights. Traditional gun people view this situation with mixed feelings. On one hand, it is gratifying to see that a large segment of the public values their rights. But on the other hand, there are a large number of people now who are armed but who may lack basic training on firearm safety and related law. Plus, it's hard to get ammo for maintaining proficiency. --- On Saturday, June 08, 2013 5:58 PM, G Mann wrote To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder If you believe apathy rules... better check your local gun store.. or even your local Walmart ammunition sales area... SOLD OUT.. and have been for months.. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
Grant wrote: The current round of scandal only pushes their thresholds.. Gun sales are hot, but I also hear the market has been robbed by huge govt purchases, so of course consumer market is no-longer-available. Even if everyone has guns, will anyone ever use them in a Redneck Spring? I have doubts that there can be anything of an organized Red Spring in this media indoctrinated kulture. We will all stand around looking to see who takes the first shot, no shots fired, we all go back to sleep watching 24. Apathy rules. Gimme bigmac and tv and I am happy - go away. The scandal is real... perhaps. I think it is a game that is playing us. If you do white papers, you fully understand (I don't understand espionage, but I Hollywood might have some espionage correct - see Safe House) the complexity of what espionage/counter-espionage really means. I think Rush is blue-state in reality and Hartman is red-state - both playing parts to dictate to the masses. The whole gig is not what it appears. They reveal meaningless scandal to drive people but have no intended action in mind, merely to see which fools can be provoked. Nobody will be provoked. They are playing us. It is all a game and we are being played. I really like the concept of Redneck Spring but posit that it won't happen. There is zero organization, whereas the Patriots had a communication network and messaging protocol in place regarding the Red Coats - one if by land, two if by sea - or, whatever. Us? - no formality in comm at all - merely quasi intellect telling us how/what to think, but zero action proposed, zero comm channels or methods to even pass news. In that, we really are %^*(! mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
Mountain Man wrote: The current round of scandal only pushes their thresholds.. Gun sales are hot, but I also hear the market has been robbed by huge govt purchases, so of course consumer market is no-longer-available. Even if everyone has guns, will anyone ever use them in a Redneck Spring? .. Gimme bigmac and tv and I am happy - go away. -- First, the so-called Government buy (1.6B rounds) is a requirements contract and very little has actually been ordered. For civilian suppliers, like Hornady, government is less than 10% of their business. Second, if a fraction of the population can clean out the ammo shelves in a few weeks, how long will it take to clean out the grocery shelves if there is panic buying? And when the shelves are bare and the gas tank is empty there will be no complacency. Some people act like animals at the Golden Corral now. What do you expect during a real shortage? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
Scott Ritchey wrote: What is so amazing is that all this is a response to a vague and undefined threat of a possible future restriction on 2nd amendment rights. 1. We know what Obama wants to do to handguns and repeating rifles, and that he expected to do it after that elementary school shooting in December. 2. We've seen what California, NY, NJ, and Colorado have passed so far this year. 3. The California General Assembly passed a ban on lead bullets this week. If the upper house passes it, the Governor will sign it into law immediately. http://gunssavelives.net/blog/breaking-california-general-assembly-votes-to-essentially-ban-almost-all-hunting-ammunition/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
Mountain Man wrote: Gun sales are hot, but I also hear the market has been robbed by huge govt purchases, so of course consumer market is no-longer-available. Oh, yes. I forgot that part. When DHS releases billion round inventories and new of multi-billion round orders, people tend to think fedgov is trying to corner the market, and they rush to get their own stockpiles. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
G Mann wrote: Art imitates life... or life imitates art... in either case.. the human spirit is hard wired to survive. The Founding Fathers tapped into that spirit in the formation of the rules of government set out in Constitution. That single thing is why millions of humans from thousands of places, over two centuries, ran to America, and still do [12 million or so from Mexico alone, with an invitation]. I see the writer in both cases recognized this basic of human principles.. I still predict the public will also... perhaps with force.. perhaps by ballot... we get to choose, according to the Bill of Rights.. Good planning.. don't you think? I should have included this link, which explains Mike Vanderbough's motivation for writing Absolved. http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2009/10/absolved-introduction.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
Tell that to Verizon and NSA. Criminal and unconstitutional I think clay On Jun 6, 2013, at 6:18 AM, Rich Thomas wrote: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. --R ** ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
I don't understand all the fuss. This was well known 5-6 years ago, when the guy from ATT came forward and revealed the splitters that the NSA had installed on ATT's backbones. I am waiting to see how this pans out with the service providers, like Facebook, Google and Apple. Were they being hacked by the NSA or were they willing participants? I suspect they participated, especially since Apple allegedly didn't come on board until after Jobs died. He would never have agreed to something like this Based on things I have witnessed over the years, I am not at all surprised. Dan Sent from my iPad On Jun 7, 2013, at 2:30 AM, clay redgh...@comcast.net wrote: Tell that to Verizon and NSA. Criminal and unconstitutional I think clay On Jun 6, 2013, at 6:18 AM, Rich Thomas wrote: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. --R ** ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
I think in light of the Democrats use of the IRS to target conservatives, this level of access by any federal agency is now pretty alarming. Seems all that is needed is for a political appointee to declare that a group is a domestic terrorist threat and the courts rubber stamp and then DHS is reading your email and listening to your conversations and then sharing with the political powers in office and when it's finally discovered some low level hacks get sacked, but the election is already won so the buck ends when your taxes go up and your liberty goes down. -- Max Dillon Charleston, SC '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20 Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote: I don't understand all the fuss. This was well known 5-6 years ago, when the guy from ATT came forward and revealed the splitters that the NSA had installed on ATT's backbones. I am waiting to see how this pans out with the service providers, like Facebook, Google and Apple. Were they being hacked by the NSA or were they willing participants? I suspect they participated, especially since Apple allegedly didn't come on board until after Jobs died. He would never have agreed to something like this Based on things I have witnessed over the years, I am not at all surprised. Dan Sent from my iPad On Jun 7, 2013, at 2:30 AM, clay redgh...@comcast.net wrote: Tell that to Verizon and NSA. Criminal and unconstitutional I think clay On Jun 6, 2013, at 6:18 AM, Rich Thomas wrote: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. --R ** ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
and Republicans.(or anyone, for that matter) On Jun 7, 2013, at 10:46 AM, Max wrote: I think in light of the Democrats use of the IRS to target conservatives, this level of access by any federal agency is now pretty alarming. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
Aye! -- Max Dillon Charleston, SC '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20 Jon Agne jonag...@gwi.net wrote: and Republicans.(or anyone, for that matter) On Jun 7, 2013, at 10:46 AM, Max wrote: I think in light of the Democrats use of the IRS to target conservatives, this level of access by any federal agency is now pretty alarming. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
That could never happen, we have elected and appointed officials looking out for us, and plus it would be for our own good, to keep us safe. --R On 6/7/13 10:46 AM, Max wrote: Seems all that is needed is for a political appointee to declare that a group is a domestic terrorist threat and the courts rubber stamp and then DHS is reading your email and listening to your conversations and then sharing with the political powers in office and when it's finally discovered some low level hacks get sacked, but the election is already won so the buck ends when your taxes go up and your liberty goes down. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
On Fri, 07 Jun 2013 11:24:57 -0400 Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote: That could never happen, we have elected and appointed officials looking out for us, and plus it would be for our own good, to keep us safe. They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin's Contributions to the Conference on February 17 (III) Fri, Feb 17, 1775 He that lieth down with Dogs, shall rise up with Fleas. - Benjamin Franklin On 6/7/13 10:46 AM, Max wrote: Seems all that is needed is for a political appointee to declare that a group is a domestic terrorist threat and the courts rubber stamp and then DHS is reading your email and listening to your conversations and then sharing with the political powers in office and when it's finally discovered some low level hacks get sacked, but the election is already won so the buck ends when your taxes go up and your liberty goes down. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
The tree of liberty need be watered from time to time with the blood of despots and free men. Patrick Henry On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 11:30 PM, clay redgh...@comcast.net wrote: Tell that to Verizon and NSA. Criminal and unconstitutional I think clay On Jun 6, 2013, at 6:18 AM, Rich Thomas wrote: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. --R ** ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com wrote: The tree of liberty need be watered from time to time with the blood of despots and free men. Patrick Henry Patrick Henry had some good quotes - but I think that one is from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to Colonel William Smith November 13, 1787. This was in reference to Shay's rebellion, in which farmers of Massachusetts were rebelling because their farms were being confiscated for unpaid taxes. Massachusetts would not accept paper money for taxes, which is how the revolutionary war veterans had been paid. These farmers found it unjust that money paid them for services to the country couldn't be used for debts to the country. http://wiki.monticello.org/mediawiki/index.php/The_tree_of_liberty...%28Quotation%29 http://www.stonefortconsulting.com/2011/11/thomas-jefferson-and-shays-rebellion-a-review/ God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. *snip* The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure.” Jefferson also wrote to James Madison I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government. --Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
12 years too late, yes. Remember when right wingers through up a fit when Prez Obama said something to the effect of not letting a good crisis go to waste in regard to heathcare? Yea, Prez Bush had already screwed us. Luther KB5QHUForest Park, IL '98 ML320 Max (166,xxx mi) On 6/6/2013 5:04 PM, Mountain Man wrote: --R wrote: ...but upon probable cause... We are about a dozen years too late. We shoulda thought about this whole privacy infringement thing when we thought there was probable cause, i.e. 911. We have been raised as sheople too long - the deed is done. Agencies have been mining data with the same purpose for over a dozen years, and just now we want to complain about infringement? Too late!! Why do we make this infringement such a big issue? We are being played. The sheople in us wants to blame the stupid repugnants or the progressives but both sides are being played. We should be putting thought and rhetoric toward who is doing the playing and what is the next move? To put it in vernacular that should only be at banned... We are $%*)!!! mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
I stand corrected. Correct in thought, incorrect in origin. Thank you. On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 12:22 PM, Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com wrote: G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com wrote: The tree of liberty need be watered from time to time with the blood of despots and free men. Patrick Henry Patrick Henry had some good quotes - but I think that one is from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to Colonel William Smith November 13, 1787. This was in reference to Shay's rebellion, in which farmers of Massachusetts were rebelling because their farms were being confiscated for unpaid taxes. Massachusetts would not accept paper money for taxes, which is how the revolutionary war veterans had been paid. These farmers found it unjust that money paid them for services to the country couldn't be used for debts to the country. http://wiki.monticello.org/mediawiki/index.php/The_tree_of_liberty...%28Quotation%29 http://www.stonefortconsulting.com/2011/11/thomas-jefferson-and-shays-rebellion-a-review/ God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. *snip* The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure.” Jefferson also wrote to James Madison I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government. --Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
Patrick Henry wrote: The tree of liberty need be watered from time to time with the blood of despots and free men. Sounds all fine and good for a different era. This ain't gonna happen today. If this is going to happen today - please flesh out what and how this will happen. We are in an era of absolute complacency, happy to be at war anywhere, anytime, i.e. Syria, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, etc - and proud to be the universal warrior of all things, proud to be an american, proud to abuse, proud to maintain liberty that does not exist, love it or leave it. Standard banned closure omitted mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
You ask, I answer... My prediction is, about mid to late July, the public conscience will receive or cumulatively have received the requisite volume of moral insult to have reached it's threshold to action. From that, about mid Aug, [Americans are slow to anger and react] a series of trigger events, likely in the inner cities and likely violent, will bring a ground swell of actions that I've chosen to name Redneck Spring. The effect of said Redneck Spring [apologies to all honorable rednecks for commandeering the term, with special exclusion for Andrew ;)] will be a series of actions which quickly and with considerable use of force, remove offending departments and persons in government from power, much like you saw in Egypt or Lybia with the removal of leaders who had held power for long periods. Further, I predict, this Redneck Spring will bridge party lines without regard to conservative or liberal, democrat or republician. I've been watching the pieces of the puzzle fall to place now for past 4 month and project easily future events that will be triggers. Just today, there are articles of how liberal left persons are now suddenly expressing how betrayed they feel [Rachel Maddow, for example went far off her reservation with comments]. The tide of unfettered support for present administration and congress is shifting... quite measurably.. and I predict will continue that pendulum swing once now in motion. That's my view... your mileage may vary. Grant... On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 7:40 PM, Mountain Man maontin@gmail.com wrote: Patrick Henry wrote: The tree of liberty need be watered from time to time with the blood of despots and free men. Sounds all fine and good for a different era. This ain't gonna happen today. If this is going to happen today - please flesh out what and how this will happen. We are in an era of absolute complacency, happy to be at war anywhere, anytime, i.e. Syria, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, etc - and proud to be the universal warrior of all things, proud to be an american, proud to abuse, proud to maintain liberty that does not exist, love it or leave it. Standard banned closure omitted mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
Thanks Rich. The whole Nation needs Bill of Rights TV commercials for the Sheople to see. Mike On Jun 6, 2013 9:18 AM, Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. --R ** __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/verizon-providing-all-call-records-to-us-under-court-order/2013/06/05/98656606-ce47-11e2-8845-d970ccb04497_story.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2336753/Stunning-shots-Allied-troops-storming-Omaha-Beach-Normandy-war-photographer-Robert-Capa-narrowly-avoided-lost-forever.html --R On 6/6/13 9:51 AM, Michael Canfield wrote: Thanks Rich. The whole Nation needs Bill of Rights TV commercials for the Sheople to see. Mike On Jun 6, 2013 9:18 AM, Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. --R ** __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
Thanks Rich. The whole Nation needs Bill of Rights TV commercials for the Sheople to see. Based on the current demonstrated skill levels of public school graduates I sincerely doubt they would have the ability to read the text. Perhaps it would be more effective if someone put them into a RAP song and set them to loud and irritating music with an oppressive base beat.. Preformed of course by someone with enough tattoos and piercings that they were not recognizable as a member of the human specie. 0f course it would have to be done in 3 languages, Spanish, Ebonics, and Aribic On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 6:18 AM, Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. --R ** __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
Try not to generalize. You would be amazed at how many brilliant, articulate kids are coming out of DC area public high schools - in addition to the illiterate ones. On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 11:24 AM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks Rich. The whole Nation needs Bill of Rights TV commercials for the Sheople to see. Based on the current demonstrated skill levels of public school graduates I sincerely doubt they would have the ability to read the text. Perhaps it would be more effective if someone put them into a RAP song and set them to loud and irritating music with an oppressive base beat.. Preformed of course by someone with enough tattoos and piercings that they were not recognizable as a member of the human specie. 0f course it would have to be done in 3 languages, Spanish, Ebonics, and Aribic On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 6:18 AM, Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. --R ** __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/ http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
Thanks Rich. The whole Nation needs Bill of Rights TV commercials for the Sheople to see. Based on the current demonstrated skill levels of public school graduates I sincerely doubt they would have the ability to read the text. Perhaps it would be more effective if someone put them into a RAP song and set them to loud and irritating music with an oppressive base beat.. Preformed of course by someone with enough tattoos and piercings that they were not recognizable as a member of the human specie. 0f course it would have to be done in 3 languages, Spanish, Ebonics, and Aribic Great Idee Mr Mann! Youstilldaman! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A Reminder
--R wrote: ...but upon probable cause... We are about a dozen years too late. We shoulda thought about this whole privacy infringement thing when we thought there was probable cause, i.e. 911. We have been raised as sheople too long - the deed is done. Agencies have been mining data with the same purpose for over a dozen years, and just now we want to complain about infringement? Too late!! Why do we make this infringement such a big issue? We are being played. The sheople in us wants to blame the stupid repugnants or the progressives but both sides are being played. We should be putting thought and rhetoric toward who is doing the playing and what is the next move? To put it in vernacular that should only be at banned... We are $%*)!!! mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
