Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed (Mike Feravolo)

[Simon Schneebeli]

Alan Pope wrote:
> On Mon, 2008-06-02 at 18:31 +0200, Simon Schneebeli wrote:
>   
>> It looks like 8pm CMT this Saturday is a moment that suits well for 
>> 
>
> It's probably better to quote times in UTC, as most other teams do. It
> makes it a lot easier for people to translate because most people know
> their timezone relative to UTC.
>   
Sorry about that. I have do admet that I had until now no idea what UTC 
means. That's why I gave the link to the webpage 
http://doodle.ch/csunnbdekfr7c345

So as it looks, we'll have the chance to chat together this saturday, 
June 7 at 21h UTC.

Regards

Simon


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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed (Mike Feravolo)

[Alan Pope]

On Mon, 2008-06-02 at 18:31 +0200, Simon Schneebeli wrote:
> It looks like 8pm CMT this Saturday is a moment that suits well for 

It's probably better to quote times in UTC, as most other teams do. It
makes it a lot easier for people to translate because most people know
their timezone relative to UTC.

> May I ask two questions:
> - Is there any (even inofficial) structure within the marketing 
> "community". I'd say that before electing anyone it would be a good idea 
> to have a clear idea of a structure.

I don't believe there is, no.

> - Is there an official "liaison" person who links to Canonical? (Or a 
> Canonical person who links to this "marketing community".

Kat Kinnie and Gerry Carr work in Marketing at Canonical. I have found
them to be very helpful when I've made requests in the past.

> - Does anyone have any document about the Canonical Marketing strategy. 
> I mean something that says a bit more than just "they're sending out CD".
> 

Don't forget that Canonical is a privately held limited company. Lets
not set our expectations too high for what we as a community will get
from them in the form of internal company strategies. 

We can of course ask one of the marketing people from Canonical to
attend the next marketing team meeting, and ask them questions.

Cheers,
Al.


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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed (Mike Feravolo)

[James Tait]

John/Team,

John Vilsack wrote:
> - Is there an official "liaison" person who links to Canonical? (Or
> a Canonical person who links to this "marketing community".
> 
> I don't believe so.  I have contacted their primary marketing contact,
> but have yet to hear back from them.

I wonder if Jono Bacon, Community Liaison Officer, might be a good
person to speak to?  Even if he's not the "right" person to ask, he can
probably point us in the right direction.

Cheers,

JT
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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed (Mike Feravolo)

[John Vilsack]

It looks like 8pm CMT this Saturday is a moment that suits well for quite a
lot of people: To find out when this is in your time zone:
http://doodle.ch/participation.html

>
> May I ask two questions:
> - Is there any (even inofficial) structure within the marketing
> "community". I'd say that before electing anyone it would be a good idea to
> have a clear idea of a structure.


I don't believe so. That is one of the things I am proposing to change
though.


> - Is there an official "liaison" person who links to Canonical? (Or a
> Canonical person who links to this "marketing community".


I don't believe so.  I have contacted their primary marketing contact, but
have yet to hear back from them.


> - Does anyone have any document about the Canonical Marketing strategy. I
> mean something that says a bit more than just "they're sending out CD".


I don't believe so.  I've scoured the sites and haven't found much of
anything.  Regardless, their plan seems to be more high level than
grassroots.  They provide a presence at trade shows, in the media, etc.
whereas my hope is that we provide the metaphorical armaments for the
average user to become an empowered evangelist.



> Sorry if these questions have been debated here previously. I'm still very
> now to this list.
>

No worries, brother.  I think many of us are new here and its good to see
the enthusiasm being stirred up by the discussion!

Thanks,
John Vilsack




> Simon
>
> ---
> Simon Schneebeli
> 078 619 31 18
> ---
>
>
>
> John Vilsack wrote:
>
>> I respectfully disagree.
>>
>> THe point of the marketing is not to be the Ambassadors, our job is to
>> manufacture and provide strategies to those that will evangelize the
>> product.  We may all be those same Ambassadors when not performing our
>> undertaken responsibilities, but the two are seperate nonetheless.
>>
>> In a perfect scenario, I can see the newest "Big Fan" of Ubuntu coming
>> across a page filled with our hard work in an easy to understand fashion.
>>  The prospective evangelist can download a paper to give to their boss to
>> show why Linux is a smart choice for the business workplace, they can print
>> out a rider brochure that users can give out with the Live CD, or they can
>> download this month's newest meeting kit, with full instructions about how
>> to start up a LoCo and how to reach other to other fans of Ubuntu.
>>
>> "Ambassadors" of Ubuntu are absolutely essential to the livelihood of the
>> product.  They should be considered our customers and our number one
>> priority.  If Canonical is able to collaborate with us to make sure we
>> aren't repeating ourselves, then great.  But we do not "need" them to
>> accomplish these goals nor to satisfy any sort of budgetary needs we may
>> have at this time.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> John Vilsack
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 8:21 AM, Mike Feravolo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
>>
>>Hello:
>>
>>I would be happy to  contribute any way that I can to the the
>>marketing
>>team.
>>
>>The increase of traffic on the list is a good thing, people
>>shouldn't be
>>concerned if people talk about the same thing. They should just be
>>glad
>>that people are talking period.
>>
>>The success of this team depends on whether Canonical is going to back
>>us or not. Right now they produce ton's of CD's and believe that
>>all you
>>have to do to sell Ubuntu is give them a CD and they will try it and
>>what to make the switch. This method is fine if the only people
>>you are
>>marketing to are people with the technical know how to install an
>>operating system. However for the other 99% of the people out
>>there that
>>use computers, they are afraid of the Live CD and don't try it at all.
>>
>>A more effective way to reach them is in print with information that
>>makes them to use Ubuntu and seek out support. People in the support
>>business will then support them.
>>
>>The marketing team should be "ambassadors" for Ubuntu and need the
>>support of Canonical to make it work.
>>
>>Thank You
>>
>>Mike Feravolo
>>
>>
>>--
>>ubuntu-marketing mailing list
>>ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com
>>
>>Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
>>https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> John Vilsack
>> Network Administrator
>> The-House.com
>> 300 S Owasso Blvd E
>> St. Paul, MN 55117
>>
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>> http://www.the-house.com
>> p. 651.482.9995
>> f. 651.482.1353
>>
>


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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed (Mike Feravolo)

[Simon Schneebeli]

It looks like 8pm CMT this Saturday is a moment that suits well for 
quite a lot of people: To find out when this is in your time zone: 
http://doodle.ch/participation.html

May I ask two questions:
- Is there any (even inofficial) structure within the marketing 
"community". I'd say that before electing anyone it would be a good idea 
to have a clear idea of a structure.
- Is there an official "liaison" person who links to Canonical? (Or a 
Canonical person who links to this "marketing community".
- Does anyone have any document about the Canonical Marketing strategy. 
I mean something that says a bit more than just "they're sending out CD".

Sorry if these questions have been debated here previously. I'm still 
very now to this list.

Simon

---
Simon Schneebeli
078 619 31 18
---



John Vilsack wrote:
> I respectfully disagree.
>
> THe point of the marketing is not to be the Ambassadors, our job is to 
> manufacture and provide strategies to those that will evangelize the 
> product.  We may all be those same Ambassadors when not performing our 
> undertaken responsibilities, but the two are seperate nonetheless.
>
> In a perfect scenario, I can see the newest "Big Fan" of Ubuntu coming 
> across a page filled with our hard work in an easy to understand 
> fashion.  The prospective evangelist can download a paper to give to 
> their boss to show why Linux is a smart choice for the business 
> workplace, they can print out a rider brochure that users can give out 
> with the Live CD, or they can download this month's newest meeting 
> kit, with full instructions about how to start up a LoCo and how to 
> reach other to other fans of Ubuntu.
>
> "Ambassadors" of Ubuntu are absolutely essential to the livelihood of 
> the product.  They should be considered our customers and our number 
> one priority.  If Canonical is able to collaborate with us to make 
> sure we aren't repeating ourselves, then great.  But we do not "need" 
> them to accomplish these goals nor to satisfy any sort of budgetary 
> needs we may have at this time.
>
> Thanks,
> John Vilsack
>
> On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 8:21 AM, Mike Feravolo 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
>
> Hello:
>
> I would be happy to  contribute any way that I can to the the
> marketing
> team.
>
> The increase of traffic on the list is a good thing, people
> shouldn't be
> concerned if people talk about the same thing. They should just be
> glad
> that people are talking period.
>
> The success of this team depends on whether Canonical is going to back
> us or not. Right now they produce ton's of CD's and believe that
> all you
> have to do to sell Ubuntu is give them a CD and they will try it and
> what to make the switch. This method is fine if the only people
> you are
> marketing to are people with the technical know how to install an
> operating system. However for the other 99% of the people out
> there that
> use computers, they are afraid of the Live CD and don't try it at all.
>
> A more effective way to reach them is in print with information that
> makes them to use Ubuntu and seek out support. People in the support
> business will then support them.
>
> The marketing team should be "ambassadors" for Ubuntu and need the
> support of Canonical to make it work.
>
> Thank You
>
> Mike Feravolo
>
>
> --
> ubuntu-marketing mailing list
> ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com
> 
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> John Vilsack
> Network Administrator
> The-House.com
> 300 S Owasso Blvd E
> St. Paul, MN 55117
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> http://www.the-house.com
> p. 651.482.9995
> f. 651.482.1353 

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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed (Mike Feravolo)

[John Vilsack]

I respectfully disagree.

THe point of the marketing is not to be the Ambassadors, our job is to
manufacture and provide strategies to those that will evangelize the
product.  We may all be those same Ambassadors when not performing our
undertaken responsibilities, but the two are seperate nonetheless.

In a perfect scenario, I can see the newest "Big Fan" of Ubuntu coming
across a page filled with our hard work in an easy to understand fashion.
The prospective evangelist can download a paper to give to their boss to
show why Linux is a smart choice for the business workplace, they can print
out a rider brochure that users can give out with the Live CD, or they can
download this month's newest meeting kit, with full instructions about how
to start up a LoCo and how to reach other to other fans of Ubuntu.

"Ambassadors" of Ubuntu are absolutely essential to the livelihood of the
product.  They should be considered our customers and our number one
priority.  If Canonical is able to collaborate with us to make sure we
aren't repeating ourselves, then great.  But we do not "need" them to
accomplish these goals nor to satisfy any sort of budgetary needs we may
have at this time.

Thanks,
John Vilsack

On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 8:21 AM, Mike Feravolo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Hello:
>
> I would be happy to  contribute any way that I can to the the marketing
> team.
>
> The increase of traffic on the list is a good thing, people shouldn't be
> concerned if people talk about the same thing. They should just be glad
> that people are talking period.
>
> The success of this team depends on whether Canonical is going to back
> us or not. Right now they produce ton's of CD's and believe that all you
> have to do to sell Ubuntu is give them a CD and they will try it and
> what to make the switch. This method is fine if the only people you are
> marketing to are people with the technical know how to install an
> operating system. However for the other 99% of the people out there that
> use computers, they are afraid of the Live CD and don't try it at all.
>
> A more effective way to reach them is in print with information that
> makes them to use Ubuntu and seek out support. People in the support
> business will then support them.
>
> The marketing team should be "ambassadors" for Ubuntu and need the
> support of Canonical to make it work.
>
> Thank You
>
> Mike Feravolo
>
>
> --
> ubuntu-marketing mailing list
> ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
>



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St. Paul, MN 55117

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[ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed (Mike Feravolo)

[Mike Feravolo]

Hello:

I would be happy to  contribute any way that I can to the the marketing
team.

The increase of traffic on the list is a good thing, people shouldn't be
concerned if people talk about the same thing. They should just be glad
that people are talking period.

The success of this team depends on whether Canonical is going to back
us or not. Right now they produce ton's of CD's and believe that all you
have to do to sell Ubuntu is give them a CD and they will try it and
what to make the switch. This method is fine if the only people you are
marketing to are people with the technical know how to install an
operating system. However for the other 99% of the people out there that
use computers, they are afraid of the Live CD and don't try it at all.

A more effective way to reach them is in print with information that
makes them to use Ubuntu and seek out support. People in the support
business will then support them. 

The marketing team should be "ambassadors" for Ubuntu and need the
support of Canonical to make it work.

Thank You

Mike Feravolo


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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed (Mike

[bbyever]

Going back to the meeting topic for a sec...

>From the people that have voted on the poll, and the list of available
times in the Meetings page it appears 20:00 UTC would be the most
convenient hour. Is that ok, or is that not a good time for someone?

About the day, I would say it should be ASAP. What do you think? Also,
it would be nice if we could start filling up the Agenda. I don't know
how its normally done, but in our LoCo anyone is free to add anything
but they have to add their wiki name beside the subject.


On 6/1/08, John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> A few days, someone asked me if I would lead this group. I postponed
> answering that question at the time, because I believe actions speak
> louder than words and because I felt it would be better to let others do
> the nominating, but since you asked this way:
>
> 1. Yes, I have the time. I do not have a day job and can easily devote 8
> hours or more a day, 7 days a week to the team.
>
> 2. Do I have the inclination? Most definitely. Otherwise I would not
> have said and done what I have this past week or so.
>
> 3. Do I have the shills and talents? In marketing and management, yes, I
> believe so. I don't have much esperience in Ubuntu - things like using
> wikis or familiarity with the technical aspects, etc
>
> 4. Should I lead this team? That's for the membership to decide.
>
> On Sun, 2008-06-01 at 18:39 +0100, Alan Pope wrote:
>> On Sun, Jun 01, 2008 at 10:08:31AM -0500, John Botscharow wrote:
>> > Also, by voting on leadersip and direction, it allows everyone, or at
>> > least most everyone, to feel ownership of this team, to buy into the
>> > team and its goals. Without that sense of ownership, people are not
>> > going to be very active or effective.
>> >
>>
>> I haven't read every message in the lengthy thread recently, sorry, so
>> this
>> question may already have been covered.
>>
>> Has anyone actually stepped up and said that they have
>> time/inclination/skills to lead this team? If not then calling a meeting
>> and
>> voting will be somewhat moot.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Al.
>>
> --
> Peace!
>
> John
>
> You do have choice on what operating system you use:
> http://www.ubuntu.com/
>
> I am an Ubuntu user!
> My profile: https://launchpad.net/~jbotscharow
> My wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnBotscharow
>
> --
> Read my blog: http://hbotscharow.com
> John Botscharow: Reflections on Religion, Politics & Life
>
>
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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed (Mike

[John Botscharow]

A few days, someone asked me if I would lead this group. I postponed
answering that question at the time, because I believe actions speak
louder than words and because I felt it would be better to let others do
the nominating, but since you asked this way:

1. Yes, I have the time. I do not have a day job and can easily devote 8
hours or more a day, 7 days a week to the team.

2. Do I have the inclination? Most definitely. Otherwise I would not
have said and done what I have this past week or so.

3. Do I have the shills and talents? In marketing and management, yes, I
believe so. I don't have much esperience in Ubuntu - things like using
wikis or familiarity with the technical aspects, etc

4. Should I lead this team? That's for the membership to decide.

On Sun, 2008-06-01 at 18:39 +0100, Alan Pope wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 01, 2008 at 10:08:31AM -0500, John Botscharow wrote:
> > Also, by voting on leadersip and direction, it allows everyone, or at
> > least most everyone, to feel ownership of this team, to buy into the
> > team and its goals. Without that sense of ownership, people are not
> > going to be very active or effective.
> > 
> 
> I haven't read every message in the lengthy thread recently, sorry, so this 
> question may already have been covered.
> 
> Has anyone actually stepped up and said that they have 
> time/inclination/skills to lead this team? If not then calling a meeting and 
> voting will be somewhat moot.
> 
> Cheers,
> Al.
> 
-- 
Peace!

John

You do have choice on what operating system you use:
http://www.ubuntu.com/

I am an Ubuntu user!
My profile: https://launchpad.net/~jbotscharow
My wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnBotscharow

--
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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed (Mike

[Alan Pope]

On Sun, Jun 01, 2008 at 10:08:31AM -0500, John Botscharow wrote:
> Also, by voting on leadersip and direction, it allows everyone, or at
> least most everyone, to feel ownership of this team, to buy into the
> team and its goals. Without that sense of ownership, people are not
> going to be very active or effective.
> 

I haven't read every message in the lengthy thread recently, sorry, so this 
question may already have been covered.

Has anyone actually stepped up and said that they have 
time/inclination/skills to lead this team? If not then calling a meeting and 
voting will be somewhat moot.

Cheers,
Al.

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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed (Mike

[John Botscharow]

I am going to use Vid's message to put in my two cents on this issue -
one last time. Like a lot of people who have commented here in the last
week or so, I am getting very frustrated with all of this going around
in circles. 

The general sentiment has been that the marketing team is, to put it
bluntly, ineffective and that the reason for that is becaise of a lack
of leadership and a lack of direction, which usually is caused by a lack
of leadership. 

The best way to establish leadersip is to do it democatically - by
voting. And to do it as quickly as possible is to have a meeting of as
many members as possible as soon as possible. And it seemed to me that
the quickest and easiest way to organize a meeting was to do it here on
this list, for all the reaons I mentioned in an earlier post.

Also, by voting on leadersip and direction, it allows everyone, or at
least most everyone, to feel ownership of this team, to buy into the
team and its goals. Without that sense of ownership, people are not
going to be very active or effective.

In order to get as many people, given the international nature of this
group, to a meeting, some of us might have to make some compromises in
our schedule to attend the meeting. Yes, we are all volunteers, but even
volunteers can make compromises for something they feel strongly about. 

But, I am beginning to think that the REAL problem here is not a lack of
direction or even a lack of leadership, but a lack of willingness to
make even a small sacrifice for a greater good. 

This may be a bit harsh, maybe even wrong. I certainly hope so. But  it
is how I see things at this point. I took responsibility for trying to
organize this meeting because it was something I felt had to be done,
and no one else really stepped up to do it. But, I am now going to step
back and let you all decide the date and time, or even whether such a
meeting will happen. 

I will say this, though. Until you all decide on some leadership and
direction that most people active on this list can buy into, the
marketing team will continue to contribute little substance to the
Ubuntu community.

So, you all decide and let me know. And unless I get so frustrated that
I leave the team, I will be there.

Peace!

John

On Sun, 2008-06-01 at 11:21 +0100, VidA wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 11:05 AM, Rubén Hubuntu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Yeah, let's use that poll, in that way we just see who can when...
> >
> > I have to say that it's not a good sign to not even be able to set up a 
> > time.
> >
> > The easiest thing (and what every other team in the community normally
> > does) is just to define a date an hour and those that can come, will,
> > and those who can't, won't.
> 
> I agree that trying to find a meeting time convenient for every time
> zone across the world wont work. So for folks who cant attend, there
> is always this list to discuss the irc meeting summary and air their
> views.  It was suggested that voting may be required to elect team
> leadership positions for which LP can be used very effectively rather
> than irc.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Vid
> || http://www.svaksha.com ||
-- 
Peace!

John

You do have choice on what operating system you use:
http://www.ubuntu.com/

I am an Ubuntu user!
My profile: https://launchpad.net/~jbotscharow
My wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnBotscharow

--
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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed (Mike

[RJ]

I can't completely agree with Hubuntu / VidA : this first meeting is one of 
the most important. We have to gather the maximum of our contributors if we 
want it to be representative. I agree we are wasting time in trying to find a 
perfect time which doesn't exist, but trying to find "the less worst" sounds 
normal to me.

After this one we will know what's the best schedule for active members here, 
and we will be able to set up some basics for further meetings.

Peace,

Jonathan

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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed (Mike

[VidA]

On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 11:05 AM, Rubén Hubuntu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yeah, let's use that poll, in that way we just see who can when...
>
> I have to say that it's not a good sign to not even be able to set up a time.
>
> The easiest thing (and what every other team in the community normally
> does) is just to define a date an hour and those that can come, will,
> and those who can't, won't.

I agree that trying to find a meeting time convenient for every time
zone across the world wont work. So for folks who cant attend, there
is always this list to discuss the irc meeting summary and air their
views.  It was suggested that voting may be required to elect team
leadership positions for which LP can be used very effectively rather
than irc.


-- 
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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed (Mike

[Rubén Hubuntu]

Yeah, let's use that poll, in that way we just see who can when...

I have to say that it's not a good sign to not even be able to set up a time.

The easiest thing (and what every other team in the community normally
does) is just to define a date an hour and those that can come, will,
and those who can't, won't.

If our decision process is going to be as effective as this meeting
planning, we do have a problem.
'
Let's just say 20:00 UTC at Saturday the 7th and be done with it. I
will come to the meeting no matter when it happens... But let's just
get done with this... It's really annoying to use so much time in such
a simple task

R.


On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 8:45 AM, Simon Schneebeli
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> This here may help you choose a date and time that suits best.
> http://doodle.ch/participation.html?pollId=csunnbdekfr7c345
>
> Regards
>
> Simon
>
> ---
> Simon Schneebeli
> 078 619 31 18
> ---
>

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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed (Mike

[RJ]

This one is great : easy and fast to use : perfect ! Thanks Simon !

I added my times. It may look a bit weird, but I could arrange for those 
times, hardly for anything else.

Regards,

Jonathan

> Hi all,
>
> This here may help you choose a date and time that suits best.
> http://doodle.ch/participation.html?pollId=csunnbdekfr7c345
>
> Regards
>
> Simon

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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed (Mike

[Simon Schneebeli]

Hi all,

This here may help you choose a date and time that suits best.
http://doodle.ch/participation.html?pollId=csunnbdekfr7c345

Regards

Simon

---
Simon Schneebeli
078 619 31 18
---



Bruno Barrera Yever wrote:
> How about 20:00 UTC on a saturday?
>
> On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 5:53 PM, John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
>> We're in the same time zone, and yes 7 am is early especially on a
>> Saturday, but we have a 13 hour range of time zones on this list and we
>> are on the early end. For those on the late end, noon UTC is 8 pm. Even
>> a two hour meeting, which I feel would be a short one, makes it 10 pm
>> for those peope. That's why I suggested Saturday, since, going on
>> "normal" working hours, we don't have to worry about anyone having to
>> get up early the next morning.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 2008-05-31 at 17:29 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> 
>>> +1 for Saturday or Sunday preferably Sunday
>>>
>>> 12:00 here is 7 which I would consider too early, but if that's all
>>> right with everyone else its not a problem.
>>> On 5/31/08, John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>   
 Well, I don't know how accurate that is either. That's why I am asking.
 As far as my suggesting Saturday, I was under the impression that most
 people have a day job, which pretty much eliminates weekdays. I figured
 a Saturday would not interfer with things like work or sleep :-) and the
 1200 UTC means it is not too early for those in the USA or too late for
 those in AU or the Far East.

 On Sat, 2008-05-31 at 16:27 -0500, Bruno Barrera Yever wrote:
 
> Well, according to the Meetings page [1] that wouldn't be convenient
> to most people Though, I don't know if that list is active.
>
> [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings
>
> On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 9:37 AM, John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>   
>> It appears that my original suggested time of 12:00 or 13:00 UTC for a
>> start time will fit pretty much eveyone in terms of time zones.
>>
>> How is everyone feel about a Saturday meeting? Do we want to do this
>> NEXT Saturday the 7th or Saturay the 14th?
>> 
>>>   
>> --
>> Peace!
>>
>> John
>>
>> You do have choice on what operating system you use:
>> http://www.ubuntu.com/
>>
>> I am an Ubuntu user!
>> My profile: https://launchpad.net/~jbotscharow
>> My wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnBotscharow
>>
>> --
>> Read my blog: http://hbotscharow.com
>> John Botscharow: Reflections on Religion, Politics & Life
>>
>>
>> --
>> ubuntu-marketing mailing list
>> ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com
>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
>>
>> 
>
>   
 --
 Peace!

 John

 You do have choice on what operating system you use:
 http://www.ubuntu.com/

 I am an Ubuntu user!
 My profile: https://launchpad.net/~jbotscharow
 My wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnBotscharow

 --
 Read my blog: http://hbotscharow.com
 John Botscharow: Reflections on Religion, Politics & Life


 
>>>   
>> --
>> Peace!
>>
>> John
>>
>> You do have choice on what operating system you use:
>> http://www.ubuntu.com/
>>
>> I am an Ubuntu user!
>> My profile: https://launchpad.net/~jbotscharow
>> My wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnBotscharow
>>
>> --
>> Read my blog: http://hbotscharow.com
>> John Botscharow: Reflections on Religion, Politics & Life
>>
>>
>> 
>
>
>
>   

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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed (Mike

[Bruno Barrera Yever]

How about 20:00 UTC on a saturday?

On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 5:53 PM, John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> We're in the same time zone, and yes 7 am is early especially on a
> Saturday, but we have a 13 hour range of time zones on this list and we
> are on the early end. For those on the late end, noon UTC is 8 pm. Even
> a two hour meeting, which I feel would be a short one, makes it 10 pm
> for those peope. That's why I suggested Saturday, since, going on
> "normal" working hours, we don't have to worry about anyone having to
> get up early the next morning.
>
>
> On Sat, 2008-05-31 at 17:29 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> +1 for Saturday or Sunday preferably Sunday
>>
>> 12:00 here is 7 which I would consider too early, but if that's all
>> right with everyone else its not a problem.
>> On 5/31/08, John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > Well, I don't know how accurate that is either. That's why I am asking.
>> > As far as my suggesting Saturday, I was under the impression that most
>> > people have a day job, which pretty much eliminates weekdays. I figured
>> > a Saturday would not interfer with things like work or sleep :-) and the
>> > 1200 UTC means it is not too early for those in the USA or too late for
>> > those in AU or the Far East.
>> >
>> > On Sat, 2008-05-31 at 16:27 -0500, Bruno Barrera Yever wrote:
>> >> Well, according to the Meetings page [1] that wouldn't be convenient
>> >> to most people Though, I don't know if that list is active.
>> >>
>> >> [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 9:37 AM, John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > It appears that my original suggested time of 12:00 or 13:00 UTC for a
>> >> > start time will fit pretty much eveyone in terms of time zones.
>> >> >
>> >> > How is everyone feel about a Saturday meeting? Do we want to do this
>> >> > NEXT Saturday the 7th or Saturay the 14th?
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> > --
>> >> > Peace!
>> >> >
>> >> > John
>> >> >
>> >> > You do have choice on what operating system you use:
>> >> > http://www.ubuntu.com/
>> >> >
>> >> > I am an Ubuntu user!
>> >> > My profile: https://launchpad.net/~jbotscharow
>> >> > My wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnBotscharow
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Read my blog: http://hbotscharow.com
>> >> > John Botscharow: Reflections on Religion, Politics & Life
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > ubuntu-marketing mailing list
>> >> > ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com
>> >> > Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
>> >> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> > --
>> > Peace!
>> >
>> > John
>> >
>> > You do have choice on what operating system you use:
>> > http://www.ubuntu.com/
>> >
>> > I am an Ubuntu user!
>> > My profile: https://launchpad.net/~jbotscharow
>> > My wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnBotscharow
>> >
>> > --
>> > Read my blog: http://hbotscharow.com
>> > John Botscharow: Reflections on Religion, Politics & Life
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
> --
> Peace!
>
> John
>
> You do have choice on what operating system you use:
> http://www.ubuntu.com/
>
> I am an Ubuntu user!
> My profile: https://launchpad.net/~jbotscharow
> My wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnBotscharow
>
> --
> Read my blog: http://hbotscharow.com
> John Botscharow: Reflections on Religion, Politics & Life
>
>



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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed (Mike

[John Botscharow]

We're in the same time zone, and yes 7 am is early especially on a
Saturday, but we have a 13 hour range of time zones on this list and we
are on the early end. For those on the late end, noon UTC is 8 pm. Even
a two hour meeting, which I feel would be a short one, makes it 10 pm
for those peope. That's why I suggested Saturday, since, going on
"normal" working hours, we don't have to worry about anyone having to
get up early the next morning. 


On Sat, 2008-05-31 at 17:29 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> +1 for Saturday or Sunday preferably Sunday
> 
> 12:00 here is 7 which I would consider too early, but if that's all
> right with everyone else its not a problem.
> On 5/31/08, John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Well, I don't know how accurate that is either. That's why I am asking.
> > As far as my suggesting Saturday, I was under the impression that most
> > people have a day job, which pretty much eliminates weekdays. I figured
> > a Saturday would not interfer with things like work or sleep :-) and the
> > 1200 UTC means it is not too early for those in the USA or too late for
> > those in AU or the Far East.
> >
> > On Sat, 2008-05-31 at 16:27 -0500, Bruno Barrera Yever wrote:
> >> Well, according to the Meetings page [1] that wouldn't be convenient
> >> to most people Though, I don't know if that list is active.
> >>
> >> [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings
> >>
> >> On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 9:37 AM, John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > It appears that my original suggested time of 12:00 or 13:00 UTC for a
> >> > start time will fit pretty much eveyone in terms of time zones.
> >> >
> >> > How is everyone feel about a Saturday meeting? Do we want to do this
> >> > NEXT Saturday the 7th or Saturay the 14th?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> > --
> >> > Peace!
> >> >
> >> > John
> >> >
> >> > You do have choice on what operating system you use:
> >> > http://www.ubuntu.com/
> >> >
> >> > I am an Ubuntu user!
> >> > My profile: https://launchpad.net/~jbotscharow
> >> > My wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnBotscharow
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Read my blog: http://hbotscharow.com
> >> > John Botscharow: Reflections on Religion, Politics & Life
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > ubuntu-marketing mailing list
> >> > ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com
> >> > Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> >> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > --
> > Peace!
> >
> > John
> >
> > You do have choice on what operating system you use:
> > http://www.ubuntu.com/
> >
> > I am an Ubuntu user!
> > My profile: https://launchpad.net/~jbotscharow
> > My wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnBotscharow
> >
> > --
> > Read my blog: http://hbotscharow.com
> > John Botscharow: Reflections on Religion, Politics & Life
> >
> >
> 
> 
-- 
Peace!

John

You do have choice on what operating system you use:
http://www.ubuntu.com/

I am an Ubuntu user!
My profile: https://launchpad.net/~jbotscharow
My wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnBotscharow

--
Read my blog: http://hbotscharow.com
John Botscharow: Reflections on Religion, Politics & Life


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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed (Mike

[bbyever]

+1 for Saturday or Sunday preferably Sunday

12:00 here is 7 which I would consider too early, but if that's all
right with everyone else its not a problem.
On 5/31/08, John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Well, I don't know how accurate that is either. That's why I am asking.
> As far as my suggesting Saturday, I was under the impression that most
> people have a day job, which pretty much eliminates weekdays. I figured
> a Saturday would not interfer with things like work or sleep :-) and the
> 1200 UTC means it is not too early for those in the USA or too late for
> those in AU or the Far East.
>
> On Sat, 2008-05-31 at 16:27 -0500, Bruno Barrera Yever wrote:
>> Well, according to the Meetings page [1] that wouldn't be convenient
>> to most people Though, I don't know if that list is active.
>>
>> [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings
>>
>> On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 9:37 AM, John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > It appears that my original suggested time of 12:00 or 13:00 UTC for a
>> > start time will fit pretty much eveyone in terms of time zones.
>> >
>> > How is everyone feel about a Saturday meeting? Do we want to do this
>> > NEXT Saturday the 7th or Saturay the 14th?
>> >>
>> >>
>> > --
>> > Peace!
>> >
>> > John
>> >
>> > You do have choice on what operating system you use:
>> > http://www.ubuntu.com/
>> >
>> > I am an Ubuntu user!
>> > My profile: https://launchpad.net/~jbotscharow
>> > My wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnBotscharow
>> >
>> > --
>> > Read my blog: http://hbotscharow.com
>> > John Botscharow: Reflections on Religion, Politics & Life
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > ubuntu-marketing mailing list
>> > ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com
>> > Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
>> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
>> >
>>
>>
>>
> --
> Peace!
>
> John
>
> You do have choice on what operating system you use:
> http://www.ubuntu.com/
>
> I am an Ubuntu user!
> My profile: https://launchpad.net/~jbotscharow
> My wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnBotscharow
>
> --
> Read my blog: http://hbotscharow.com
> John Botscharow: Reflections on Religion, Politics & Life
>
>


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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed (Mike

[John Botscharow]

Well, I don't know how accurate that is either. That's why I am asking.
As far as my suggesting Saturday, I was under the impression that most
people have a day job, which pretty much eliminates weekdays. I figured
a Saturday would not interfer with things like work or sleep :-) and the
1200 UTC means it is not too early for those in the USA or too late for
those in AU or the Far East.

On Sat, 2008-05-31 at 16:27 -0500, Bruno Barrera Yever wrote:
> Well, according to the Meetings page [1] that wouldn't be convenient
> to most people Though, I don't know if that list is active.
> 
> [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings
> 
> On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 9:37 AM, John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > It appears that my original suggested time of 12:00 or 13:00 UTC for a
> > start time will fit pretty much eveyone in terms of time zones.
> >
> > How is everyone feel about a Saturday meeting? Do we want to do this
> > NEXT Saturday the 7th or Saturay the 14th?
> >>
> >>
> > --
> > Peace!
> >
> > John
> >
> > You do have choice on what operating system you use:
> > http://www.ubuntu.com/
> >
> > I am an Ubuntu user!
> > My profile: https://launchpad.net/~jbotscharow
> > My wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnBotscharow
> >
> > --
> > Read my blog: http://hbotscharow.com
> > John Botscharow: Reflections on Religion, Politics & Life
> >
> >
> > --
> > ubuntu-marketing mailing list
> > ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com
> > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
> >
> 
> 
> 
-- 
Peace!

John

You do have choice on what operating system you use:
http://www.ubuntu.com/

I am an Ubuntu user!
My profile: https://launchpad.net/~jbotscharow
My wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnBotscharow

--
Read my blog: http://hbotscharow.com
John Botscharow: Reflections on Religion, Politics & Life


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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed (Mike

[Bruno Barrera Yever]

Well, according to the Meetings page [1] that wouldn't be convenient
to most people Though, I don't know if that list is active.

[1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings

On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 9:37 AM, John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> It appears that my original suggested time of 12:00 or 13:00 UTC for a
> start time will fit pretty much eveyone in terms of time zones.
>
> How is everyone feel about a Saturday meeting? Do we want to do this
> NEXT Saturday the 7th or Saturay the 14th?
>>
>>
> --
> Peace!
>
> John
>
> You do have choice on what operating system you use:
> http://www.ubuntu.com/
>
> I am an Ubuntu user!
> My profile: https://launchpad.net/~jbotscharow
> My wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnBotscharow
>
> --
> Read my blog: http://hbotscharow.com
> John Botscharow: Reflections on Religion, Politics & Life
>
>
> --
> ubuntu-marketing mailing list
> ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
>



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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed (Mike

[John Botscharow]

It appears that my original suggested time of 12:00 or 13:00 UTC for a
start time will fit pretty much eveyone in terms of time zones.

How is everyone feel about a Saturday meeting? Do we want to do this
NEXT Saturday the 7th or Saturay the 14th?
> 
> 
-- 
Peace!

John

You do have choice on what operating system you use:
http://www.ubuntu.com/

I am an Ubuntu user!
My profile: https://launchpad.net/~jbotscharow
My wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnBotscharow

--
Read my blog: http://hbotscharow.com
John Botscharow: Reflections on Religion, Politics & Life


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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed (Mike Feravolo)

[Mike Feravolo]

Hello:

It looks like something is happening here and that's a good thing, I
live in Cocoa Beach, Florida and hope that you pick a time for the
meeting that I can make it.

Just so you people know a little bit about who I am, let me say that I
have been in the Computer Science trade for over twenty years and have
experience both working in industry as a Software Engineer and working
for my own business as one. Also as a business owner I have had to learn
about sales and marketing by doing it.

The LoCo Team network is a great way for users of the Ubuntu operating
system to get to know other users and talk about things related to using
the product. 

Using something and selling something are two different things, which is
why Fedora (for the person that bought that up in rebuttal to my last
message) has an ambassador program. 

I am not proposing that we copy fedora, since I like the free spirited
and every one is welcome to join nature of Ubuntu. That is the way the
marketing effort should be run. 

Business people and other veterans of the trade that run businesses,
have connections in their local business communities and spend money
advertising their own businesses. Which is why you want to find people
like us to help market Ubuntu.

What we need is information that is printed on paper, not Live CD's. If
you can distribute CD's in the mail world wide to anyone that asks, then
you can do the same with printed material. 

Short run printing of electronic data is expensive, printing by the
ten's or hundreds of thousands is not. Also the printed material has a
longer shelf life then the CD's which are obsolete in six months. 

Since our business is support, why would we tell someone to go off and
do something on their own. If we give them a piece of paper that makes
them want to use Ubuntu and then when they want us to install it and
support then everyone wins.

Peace

Mike Feravolo
Cocoa Beach, FL USA



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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed

[James Tait]

John Botscharow wrote:
> PLEASE respond with your time zone ASAP so this meeting can happen and
> we can get this team doing what it supposed to do - MARKETING!!!

UTC+1 (another from the UK)

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---+
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---+

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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed

[John Botscharow]

On Fri, 2008-05-30 at 15:55 -0500, John Vilsack wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's veeery interesting, as Arte Johnson used to say on
> Laugh In.
> As soemeone wha has a very strong background in the social
> sciences, I
> feel that natural selection, for the humans species, is more
> culturally
> influenced than for say chimps or gorillas. We can control,
> either
> consciously or unconsciosusly, our own future as a species;.
> Right now
> it's more unconscious than conscious.
> 
> My meaning is that if we define things definitively from a project
> management viewpoint similar to the way our developers handle bugs and
> feature requests, people will naturally pick items from the list and
> work on them...the roles that we envision or predict may be far
> different than those people are actually suited for in this
> situation. 
> 
> 
> 
Defining things definitely - that will be the hard part. You and I are
coming at the same problems but from differet directions. However we get
to the solution is fine with me as long as we get there.


> 
> This is true, but, certain roles can only be filled by one
> person at a
> time, for instance, Fearless Leader. If more than one person
> is willing
> and able to fill that role, then the team needs to decide by a
> democratic vote. That is the point I was trying to make. No
> one should
> be asked to do something they do not want to do, and I
> certainly hope
> that I did not imply otherwise.
> 
> 
> I respectfully disagree.  In fact, I would challenge to say that given
> the decided lack of action up to this point we all see from this
> group, appointing a single person in a top down approach is the
> absolute wrong thing to do.

And the decided lack of action, IMHO, has been due to the lack strong
leadership, whether a single person or a troika. And there won't be any
sustained action until there is leadership - someone to encourage,
cajole, prod people into action. 
> 
> My recommedation is to nominate from the floor at least three members
> of the group to form the core-marketers team that would be voted on in
> a manner deemed appropriate by either the Community Council or by a
> quorum at a marketing meeting.  From there, this new "council" could
> begin accepting applications to the core group based on similar
> qualifications that exist within the core-developers process.

IMHO, the leadership - single or collective - needs two wualifications
and twoonly: 1] they have the necessary skills and background in
marketing; 2] they have the skills and talents to lead

Personally, I feel the team itself needs to pick its leadership not have
it imposed from outside the team. Leaderahip chosen by the team itself
will have an easier time leading than that imposed by someone outside
the team. Also, its more democratic that way.

> 
> Assuming that three members are chosen, it could also be determined by
> the three that an "executive override" position could be created if
> the need for a final vote came up.
> 
> This should be alot less about titles and alot more about getting
> things done.  A team of three is able to keep each others'
> responsibilities, workloads, and accountabilities in check.

Amen to that Besides, Fearless Leader(s) has a nice ring to it LOL
> 
> Maintaining a strong and inviting atmosphere that allows new members
> to be welcomed with open arms and integrate tightly into the existing
> workload is a tough job.  You have to balance ego, people's
> expectations of how we will respond to them and their needs, and a
> healthy respect for their pro-bono time and effort they are dedicating
> to the project you are responsible for.

I understand your point. Been there, on both sides of the equation.
> 
> I'm modeling my ideas based on a similar experience founding a 501(c)3
> charity I helped found.  Its not a perfect science, but when people
> have nothing but good intentions reinforcing their discipline and
> commitment to a project, you have to hold that in the highest of
> regards.

I am quite familiar with the model. I have served on several 501c3
boards of directors as well as being the director of development for one
- first as a volunteer and later, when the agency was profitable, as a
paid position. 
> 
> Thanks,
> John
> 
> 
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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed

[John Vilsack]

>
>
> That's veeery interesting, as Arte Johnson used to say on Laugh In.
> As soemeone wha has a very strong background in the social sciences, I
> feel that natural selection, for the humans species, is more culturally
> influenced than for say chimps or gorillas. We can control, either
> consciously or unconsciosusly, our own future as a species;. Right now
> it's more unconscious than conscious.


My meaning is that if we define things definitively from a project
management viewpoint similar to the way our developers handle bugs and
feature requests, people will naturally pick items from the list and work on
them...the roles that we envision or predict may be far different than those
people are actually suited for in this situation.


> This is true, but, certain roles can only be filled by one person at a
> time, for instance, Fearless Leader. If more than one person is willing
> and able to fill that role, then the team needs to decide by a
> democratic vote. That is the point I was trying to make. No one should
> be asked to do something they do not want to do, and I certainly hope
> that I did not imply otherwise.
>

I respectfully disagree.  In fact, I would challenge to say that given the
decided lack of action up to this point we all see from this group,
appointing a single person in a top down approach is the absolute wrong
thing to do.

My recommedation is to nominate from the floor at least three members of the
group to form the core-marketers team that would be voted on in a manner
deemed appropriate by either the Community Council or by a quorum at a
marketing meeting.  From there, this new "council" could begin accepting
applications to the core group based on similar qualifications that exist
within the core-developers process.

Assuming that three members are chosen, it could also be determined by the
three that an "executive override" position could be created if the need for
a final vote came up.

This should be alot less about titles and alot more about getting things
done.  A team of three is able to keep each others' responsibilities,
workloads, and accountabilities in check.

Maintaining a strong and inviting atmosphere that allows new members to be
welcomed with open arms and integrate tightly into the existing workload is
a tough job.  You have to balance ego, people's expectations of how we will
respond to them and their needs, and a healthy respect for their pro-bono
time and effort they are dedicating to the project you are responsible for.

I'm modeling my ideas based on a similar experience founding a 501(c)3
charity I helped found.  Its not a perfect science, but when people have
nothing but good intentions reinforcing their discipline and commitment to a
project, you have to hold that in the highest of regards.

Thanks,
John
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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed

[John Botscharow]

On Fri, 2008-05-30 at 13:56 -0500, John Vilsack wrote:
> Actually, I think Natural Selection will take care of this to a
> greater or lesser extent.

That's veeery interesting, as Arte Johnson used to say on Laugh In.
As soemeone wha has a very strong background in the social sciences, I
feel that natural selection, for the humans species, is more culturally
influenced than for say chimps or gorillas. We can control, either
consciously or unconsciosusly, our own future as a species;. Right now
it's more unconscious than conscious.
> 
> To truly embrace the open source movement, we have no ability to ask
> unpaid volunteers to focus on any one particular piece of the project.
> Sure, we can make recommendations, but in the long run, people will
> focus on what they want to focus on.

This is true, but, certain roles can only be filled by one person at a
time, for instance, Fearless Leader. If more than one person is willing
and able to fill that role, then the team needs to decide by a
democratic vote. That is the point I was trying to make. No one should
be asked to do something they do not want to do, and I certainly hope
that I did not imply otherwise.
> 
> My intent is to have us focus on the Marketing aspects of Ubuntu in a
> similar way that the Development team focuses on the distribution.
> Our "bugs" will be outstanding tasks that anyone can address.  Our
> "roles" will be similar to the various aspects of the Linux and Ubuntu
> distribution as a whole. Our "code base" will be a central repository
> that the core-marketers have final approval on that anyone and
> everyone can access as "Approved for Distribution" dissemination.

I think we all are in agreement on this.
> 
> I will try and get this done as soon as possible, but I do have a full
> time job and several voluntary positions, so I am doing my best to get
> my proverbial ducks in a row :)
> 
We all, I am sure, appreciate your efforts in helping ua get our act
together. I know I do :-)

> I definitely think that my idea will allow for several of us to take
> on a leadership role in the various areas that we have to cover...this
> isn't going to be a one person show by any means.  We have alot to do,
> alot of ground to cover, and alot of different balls to juggle at the
> same time.

Hey, that's what makes life fun
> 
> I hope any contribution I can make can help accomplish this goal
> further.  However you have every right to say I am a quack and I
> should shut my yapper :)  This is the beauty of democracy!

That is the LAST possible thing I would ever say to you, John.
> 
> Thanks,
> John
> 
> On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 1:04 PM, John Botscharow
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, 2008-05-30 at 08:45 -0500, John Vilsack wrote:
> 
> > I've also begun listing out the various roles that I
> envision would be
> > a part of this type of restructure, and I hope that those
> actively
> > contributing to the list now would be willing to step up and
> assume
> > ownership of one of these.
> 
> 
> This is the area, I suspect, where we will need to cast votes,
> unless I
> have completely misjudged the situation. I suspect that there
> will be
> more than one volunteer for at least some of the roles, and
> that is
> good. It should be the membership that decides who they want
> to assume
> those roles.
> >
> --
> 
> Peace!
> 
> John
> 
> You do have choice on what operating system you use:
> http://www.ubuntu.com/
> 
> I am an Ubuntu user!
> My profile: https://launchpad.net/~jbotscharow
> My wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnBotscharow
> 
> --
> Read my blog: http://hbotscharow.com
> John Botscharow: Reflections on Religion, Politics & Life
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> John Vilsack
> Network Administrator
> The-House.com
> 300 S Owasso Blvd E
> St. Paul, MN 55117
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.the-house.com
> p. 651.482.9995
> f. 651.482.1353
-- 
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John

You do have choice on what operating system you use:
http://www.ubuntu.com/

I am an Ubuntu user!
My profile: https://launchpad.net/~jbotscharow
My wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnBotscharow

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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed

[John Vilsack]

Actually, I think Natural Selection will take care of this to a greater or
lesser extent.

To truly embrace the open source movement, we have no ability to ask unpaid
volunteers to focus on any one particular piece of the project.  Sure, we
can make recommendations, but in the long run, people will focus on what
they want to focus on.

My intent is to have us focus on the Marketing aspects of Ubuntu in a
similar way that the Development team focuses on the distribution.  Our
"bugs" will be outstanding tasks that anyone can address.  Our "roles" will
be similar to the various aspects of the Linux and Ubuntu distribution as a
whole. Our "code base" will be a central repository that the core-marketers
have final approval on that anyone and everyone can access as "Approved for
Distribution" dissemination.

I will try and get this done as soon as possible, but I do have a full time
job and several voluntary positions, so I am doing my best to get my
proverbial ducks in a row :)

I definitely think that my idea will allow for several of us to take on a
leadership role in the various areas that we have to cover...this isn't
going to be a one person show by any means.  We have alot to do, alot of
ground to cover, and alot of different balls to juggle at the same time.

I hope any contribution I can make can help accomplish this goal further.
However you have every right to say I am a quack and I should shut my yapper
:)  This is the beauty of democracy!

Thanks,
John

On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 1:04 PM, John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> On Fri, 2008-05-30 at 08:45 -0500, John Vilsack wrote:
> > I've also begun listing out the various roles that I envision would be
> > a part of this type of restructure, and I hope that those actively
> > contributing to the list now would be willing to step up and assume
> > ownership of one of these.
>
> This is the area, I suspect, where we will need to cast votes, unless I
> have completely misjudged the situation. I suspect that there will be
> more than one volunteer for at least some of the roles, and that is
> good. It should be the membership that decides who they want to assume
> those roles.
> >
> --
> Peace!
>
> John
>
> You do have choice on what operating system you use:
> http://www.ubuntu.com/
>
> I am an Ubuntu user!
> My profile: 
> https://launchpad.net/~jbotscharow
> My wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnBotscharow
>
> --
> Read my blog: http://hbotscharow.com
> John Botscharow: Reflections on Religion, Politics & Life
>
>


-- 
John Vilsack
Network Administrator
The-House.com
300 S Owasso Blvd E
St. Paul, MN 55117

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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed

[Rubén Hubuntu]

+1 for a weekend

+1 for an action agenda under the meeting

+1 for a meeting, as in face to face, in the next UDS (end of the
year) if we start working actively as a team

R.

On 5/30/08, John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 100% attendance at anything involving a group this size is unfeasible,
> really. But I know of other online groups, both inside and outside of
> the Ubuntu community, who hold annual meetings online. Some even do it
> offline in neat places like Beijing or the Riviera :-)
>
> If someone is unable to attend, they could publicly - like on this list
> or on the wiki - assign their voting rights to someone they know and
> trust - a proxy. The proxy would then have their own vote as well as the
> vote of the person who gave them their vote. It would be hoped that the
> person casting the proxy vote would vote how the absent person would
> have voted had they been able to attend.
>
> Again, let me reiterate what I said earlier, we need to make this an
> action meeting - lots of decision making - and get the discussion out of
> the way here before the meeting or this meeting will go on way too long
> and nothing will get accomplished.
>
> John B
> On Fri, 2008-05-30 at 18:15 +0100, VidA wrote:
>> On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 2:45 PM, John Vilsack <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > Due to the international nature of the group, I also think a meeting is
>> > somewhat unfeasible for 100% attendance.
>>
>> agreed.
>>
>> >
>> > I am about 90% done with a rough draft of a proposal to the council
>> > which
>> > covers the three main topics (focus on materials and collaboration,
>> > core-marketers, Canonical liasion) which I will post once I have
>> > something
>> > readable but certainly before the meeting.
>>
>> It will be nice to read that before the meeting so folks with more
>> ideas can discuss it in the meeting.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 1:32 PM, John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > As for what day of the week, I suggest either Sat. or Sun. since that
>>
>> +1 for a weekend. UTC 1500-1800 for weekends works well for me.
>>
>> Regarding the wiki, its OK to make mistakes (we all do, dont we?) and
>> mess it up. We can always do a revert. So feel free to use it :)
>>
> --
> Peace!
>
> John
>
> You do have choice on what operating system you use:
> http://www.ubuntu.com/
>
> I am an Ubuntu user!
> My profile: https://launchpad.net/~jbotscharow
> My wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnBotscharow
>
> --
> Read my blog: http://hbotscharow.com
> John Botscharow: Reflections on Religion, Politics & Life
>
>
> --
> ubuntu-marketing mailing list
> ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
>

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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed

[John Botscharow]

On Fri, 2008-05-30 at 08:45 -0500, John Vilsack wrote:
> I've also begun listing out the various roles that I envision would be
> a part of this type of restructure, and I hope that those actively
> contributing to the list now would be willing to step up and assume
> ownership of one of these.

This is the area, I suspect, where we will need to cast votes, unless I
have completely misjudged the situation. I suspect that there will be
more than one volunteer for at least some of the roles, and that is
good. It should be the membership that decides who they want to assume
those roles. 
> 
-- 
Peace!

John

You do have choice on what operating system you use:
http://www.ubuntu.com/

I am an Ubuntu user!
My profile: https://launchpad.net/~jbotscharow
My wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnBotscharow

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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed

[John Botscharow]

100% attendance at anything involving a group this size is unfeasible,
really. But I know of other online groups, both inside and outside of
the Ubuntu community, who hold annual meetings online. Some even do it
offline in neat places like Beijing or the Riviera :-) 

If someone is unable to attend, they could publicly - like on this list
or on the wiki - assign their voting rights to someone they know and
trust - a proxy. The proxy would then have their own vote as well as the
vote of the person who gave them their vote. It would be hoped that the
person casting the proxy vote would vote how the absent person would
have voted had they been able to attend. 

Again, let me reiterate what I said earlier, we need to make this an
action meeting - lots of decision making - and get the discussion out of
the way here before the meeting or this meeting will go on way too long
and nothing will get accomplished. 

John B
On Fri, 2008-05-30 at 18:15 +0100, VidA wrote:
> On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 2:45 PM, John Vilsack <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Due to the international nature of the group, I also think a meeting is
> > somewhat unfeasible for 100% attendance.
> 
> agreed.
> 
> >
> > I am about 90% done with a rough draft of a proposal to the council which
> > covers the three main topics (focus on materials and collaboration,
> > core-marketers, Canonical liasion) which I will post once I have something
> > readable but certainly before the meeting.
> 
> It will be nice to read that before the meeting so folks with more
> ideas can discuss it in the meeting.
> 
> 
> On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 1:32 PM, John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > As for what day of the week, I suggest either Sat. or Sun. since that
> 
> +1 for a weekend. UTC 1500-1800 for weekends works well for me.
> 
> Regarding the wiki, its OK to make mistakes (we all do, dont we?) and
> mess it up. We can always do a revert. So feel free to use it :)
> 
-- 
Peace!

John

You do have choice on what operating system you use:
http://www.ubuntu.com/

I am an Ubuntu user!
My profile: https://launchpad.net/~jbotscharow
My wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnBotscharow

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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed

[VidA]

On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 2:45 PM, John Vilsack <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Due to the international nature of the group, I also think a meeting is
> somewhat unfeasible for 100% attendance.

agreed.

>
> I am about 90% done with a rough draft of a proposal to the council which
> covers the three main topics (focus on materials and collaboration,
> core-marketers, Canonical liasion) which I will post once I have something
> readable but certainly before the meeting.

It will be nice to read that before the meeting so folks with more
ideas can discuss it in the meeting.


On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 1:32 PM, John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> As for what day of the week, I suggest either Sat. or Sun. since that

+1 for a weekend. UTC 1500-1800 for weekends works well for me.

Regarding the wiki, its OK to make mistakes (we all do, dont we?) and
mess it up. We can always do a revert. So feel free to use it :)

-- 
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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed

[John Botscharow]

On Fri, 2008-05-30 at 08:45 -0500, John Vilsack wrote:
the way I see it, the things that need to be reolved at this meeting
will be things that require decisions which, being one who strongly
favors democracy in its purest form, means voting. I believe that only
by actually voting on things - like leadership, mission goals, etc. will
we get this team to the point where, depending on your perspective,
every one is happy or everyone is unhappy :-), but at least we have made
some decisions that the team as a whole can abide by. 

We could do this over the list or through a series of regional meetings,
but that will take extra time. And, as I said in my earlier post, time
is of the essence here. Perhaps I am missing something here - or
suffering from some severe delusions LOL - but it seems to me that what
may very well be a one time event, am international meeting of this
team, is the only way to achieve what needs to be achieved so that
everyone, or at least almost every one, feels a sense of ownership of
and commitment to this team.

> Due to the international nature of the group, I also think a meeting
> is somewhat unfeasible for 100% attendance.  
> 
> I am about 90% done with a rough draft of a proposal to the council
> which covers the three main topics (focus on materials and
> collaboration, core-marketers, Canonical liasion) which I will post
> once I have something readable but certainly before the meeting.
> Barring any vehement opposition to the proposal, I will submit it
> thereafter.
> 
> I've also begun listing out the various roles that I envision would be
> a part of this type of restructure, and I hope that those actively
> contributing to the list now would be willing to step up and assume
> ownership of one of these.
> 
> As Alan said, much of what needs to be said in a discussion has been
> said.  Its time for actionable objectives and realizing our goals.
> 
> My time is -6 GMT, Central Daylight, United States of America
> 
> Thanks,
> John
> On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 7:32 AM, John Botscharow
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, 2008-05-30 at 12:03 +0100, Chris Rowson wrote:
> Chris,
> 
> I agree that setting up a meeting for the entire group is
> going to be
> difficult, but not impossible and I think that THIS meeting
> should
> involve everyone. We may very well end up with regional
> meetings later
> on, but right now we need to resolve the organizational issues
> at a
> single meeting of the entire group - or at least as many as
> can make it.
> 
> As for what day of the week, I suggest either Sat. or Sun.
> since that
> should avoid any day job conflicts for most people. Amd,
> given, from the
> time zone responses, that we have a 13 hr range of time zones,
> it would
> seem that something in the early afteroon say 1 or 2 PM UTC
> would keep
> the time reasonable for all of us - not too early for those of
> us at UTC
> -5 and not too late for those at UTC +8.
> 
> Also doing it on a Sat. would probably give everyone the most
> flexibility in the amount of time they can commit to the
> meeting. I
> really don't think this is going to be a short meeting :-) and
> we all
> should be prepared for that.
> 
> The urgency of getting organized is another reason that I feel
> we need
> to do this at a full team meeting. Regional meetings first
> would
> lengthen the time frame of resolving the organizational
> issues, and I
> don't think we have that luxury.
> 
> > I think part of the problem with these meetings is that
> given the
> > international basis of the marketing team, whenever you
> organise one,
> > someone will be unable to attend.
> >
> > I propose that an agenda is fixed, with a set of issues to
> be
> > addressed and that the agenda is discussed at a group of
> regional
> > meetings.
> >
> > The responses to the discussed issues could then be noted
> and fed
> > 'back up' to the international level and a decision arrived
> upon based
> > on the common consensus of the regional findings.
> >
> > Either that, or split the marketing team into regional
> marketing teams
> > with the main marketing team as an advice centre for people
> to discuss
> > and feed ideas up to. I did this over at ubuntu-uk here
> > https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-uk-marketing
> >
> > Although we've not done much as of yet, it is a good way to
> identify
> > people with an interest in marketing in each locality and
> I'm sure
> > formalising the pr

Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed

[John Vilsack]

Due to the international nature of the group, I also think a meeting is
somewhat unfeasible for 100% attendance.

I am about 90% done with a rough draft of a proposal to the council which
covers the three main topics (focus on materials and collaboration,
core-marketers, Canonical liasion) which I will post once I have something
readable but certainly before the meeting.  Barring any vehement opposition
to the proposal, I will submit it thereafter.

I've also begun listing out the various roles that I envision would be a
part of this type of restructure, and I hope that those actively
contributing to the list now would be willing to step up and assume
ownership of one of these.

As Alan said, much of what needs to be said in a discussion has been said.
Its time for actionable objectives and realizing our goals.

My time is -6 GMT, Central Daylight, United States of America

Thanks,
John
On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 7:32 AM, John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> On Fri, 2008-05-30 at 12:03 +0100, Chris Rowson wrote:
> Chris,
>
> I agree that setting up a meeting for the entire group is going to be
> difficult, but not impossible and I think that THIS meeting should
> involve everyone. We may very well end up with regional meetings later
> on, but right now we need to resolve the organizational issues at a
> single meeting of the entire group - or at least as many as can make it.
>
> As for what day of the week, I suggest either Sat. or Sun. since that
> should avoid any day job conflicts for most people. Amd, given, from the
> time zone responses, that we have a 13 hr range of time zones, it would
> seem that something in the early afteroon say 1 or 2 PM UTC would keep
> the time reasonable for all of us - not too early for those of us at UTC
> -5 and not too late for those at UTC +8.
>
> Also doing it on a Sat. would probably give everyone the most
> flexibility in the amount of time they can commit to the meeting. I
> really don't think this is going to be a short meeting :-) and we all
> should be prepared for that.
>
> The urgency of getting organized is another reason that I feel we need
> to do this at a full team meeting. Regional meetings first would
> lengthen the time frame of resolving the organizational issues, and I
> don't think we have that luxury.
>
> > I think part of the problem with these meetings is that given the
> > international basis of the marketing team, whenever you organise one,
> > someone will be unable to attend.
> >
> > I propose that an agenda is fixed, with a set of issues to be
> > addressed and that the agenda is discussed at a group of regional
> > meetings.
> >
> > The responses to the discussed issues could then be noted and fed
> > 'back up' to the international level and a decision arrived upon based
> > on the common consensus of the regional findings.
> >
> > Either that, or split the marketing team into regional marketing teams
> > with the main marketing team as an advice centre for people to discuss
> > and feed ideas up to. I did this over at ubuntu-uk here
> > https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-uk-marketing
> >
> > Although we've not done much as of yet, it is a good way to identify
> > people with an interest in marketing in each locality and I'm sure
> > formalising the process would help get things moving along more
> > smoothly.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> --
> Peace!
>
> John
>
> You do have choice on what operating system you use:
> http://www.ubuntu.com/
>
> I am an Ubuntu user!
> My profile: 
> https://launchpad.net/~jbotscharow
> My wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnBotscharow
>
> --
> Read my blog: http://hbotscharow.com
> John Botscharow: Reflections on Religion, Politics & Life
>
>
> --
> ubuntu-marketing mailing list
> ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
>



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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed

[John Botscharow]

On Fri, 2008-05-30 at 12:03 +0100, Chris Rowson wrote:
Chris,

I agree that setting up a meeting for the entire group is going to be
difficult, but not impossible and I think that THIS meeting should
involve everyone. We may very well end up with regional meetings later
on, but right now we need to resolve the organizational issues at a
single meeting of the entire group - or at least as many as can make it.

As for what day of the week, I suggest either Sat. or Sun. since that
should avoid any day job conflicts for most people. Amd, given, from the
time zone responses, that we have a 13 hr range of time zones, it would
seem that something in the early afteroon say 1 or 2 PM UTC would keep
the time reasonable for all of us - not too early for those of us at UTC
-5 and not too late for those at UTC +8.

Also doing it on a Sat. would probably give everyone the most
flexibility in the amount of time they can commit to the meeting. I
really don't think this is going to be a short meeting :-) and we all
should be prepared for that.

The urgency of getting organized is another reason that I feel we need
to do this at a full team meeting. Regional meetings first would
lengthen the time frame of resolving the organizational issues, and I
don't think we have that luxury.

> I think part of the problem with these meetings is that given the
> international basis of the marketing team, whenever you organise one,
> someone will be unable to attend.
> 
> I propose that an agenda is fixed, with a set of issues to be
> addressed and that the agenda is discussed at a group of regional
> meetings.
> 
> The responses to the discussed issues could then be noted and fed
> 'back up' to the international level and a decision arrived upon based
> on the common consensus of the regional findings.
> 
> Either that, or split the marketing team into regional marketing teams
> with the main marketing team as an advice centre for people to discuss
> and feed ideas up to. I did this over at ubuntu-uk here
> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-uk-marketing
> 
> Although we've not done much as of yet, it is a good way to identify
> people with an interest in marketing in each locality and I'm sure
> formalising the process would help get things moving along more
> smoothly.
> 
> Chris
> 
-- 
Peace!

John

You do have choice on what operating system you use:
http://www.ubuntu.com/

I am an Ubuntu user!
My profile: https://launchpad.net/~jbotscharow
My wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnBotscharow

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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed

[John Botscharow]

Ruben,

What you say about the wiki may be true, but the fact is that most
people who are currently participating on this list are NOT using the
wkiki, and I suspect the reason for that is that they, like me, are
unfamiliar with how it works. 

I am learning wiki code by working on my personal wiki, but I am not
going to mess with the team wiki, especially the meeting page, until I
have a better handle on the code used.

As you said, organizing a meeting is our main priority, and like you, I
am trying to get that meeting organized as quickly as possible. It was
suggested by Vid that we use the wiki to do that and I was responding to
that suggestion, pointing out why I felt that was unfeasible at this
point. For this meeting, at least, let's continue to get this meeting
organized using the list. I think this is the best way for maximum
participation.

On Fri, 2008-05-30 at 10:58 +, Rubén Hubuntu wrote:
> The idea with wikis is to do collaborative work in an incremental phase.
> 
> I see your point, but after hanging around for a while I found out
> that the best way to make impact within your community activities is
> to use the wiki as a cooperative tool. And yes, it means an effort in
> learning the syntax (and yes, I know it is nightmarish, but you will
> be happy you did :)
> 
> So everybody needs to get involved in the general maintenance of the
> wiki page, and certainly a core group is going to raise to adress this
> issue. But let us just get a meeting arranged and we take it from
> there, will you all folks?
> 
> Next week, say wednesday/thursday?
> 
> This thread is about finding a passing date for the meeting, let us
> keep this in foucs. Else we are just going around in circles...
> 
> R.
> 
> On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 10:48 AM, John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Vid,
> >
> > The problem with your suggestion is that it assumes everyone is
> > comfortable using the Wiki. I took a look at  the meeting page, and as
> > someone who is just learning how to use wiki code, I am reluctant to
> > touch that page for fear of messing it up. We all seem to know how to
> > use email :-)
> >
> > A suggestion: Perhaps someone on the team who actually monitors this
> > list amd who knows wiki code could volunteer to update the team wiki
> > pages on, say, a daily basis.
> >
> > Anyone want to take that on? Having an up-to-date wiki page would do
> > much to help keep the team organized.
> >
> > Peace!
> >
> > John
> >
> > On Fri, 2008-05-30 at 03:02 +0100, VidA wrote:
> >> On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 10:23 PM, John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> >> wrote:
> >> > We need to hear from everyone re: their time zone so that we can get
> >>
> >> Folks, do add your preferences on the meetings wikipage[1], which has
> >> a schedule for prefered individual  timings.
> >> After the meeting date is fixed, please mail this list with a CC to
> >> the fridge list and it will be put on the Fridge.
> >>
> >> [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings
> >>
> >> --
> >> Vid
> >> || http://www.svaksha.com ||
> >>
> > --
> > Peace!
> >
> > John
> >
> > You do have choice on what operating system you use:
> > http://www.ubuntu.com/
> >
> > I am an Ubuntu user!
> > My profile: https://launchpad.net/~jbotscharow
> > My wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnBotscharow
> >
> > --
> > Read my blog: http://hbotscharow.com
> > John Botscharow: Reflections on Religion, Politics & Life
> >
> >
> > --
> > ubuntu-marketing mailing list
> > ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com
> > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
> >
> 
-- 
Peace!

John

You do have choice on what operating system you use:
http://www.ubuntu.com/

I am an Ubuntu user!
My profile: https://launchpad.net/~jbotscharow
My wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnBotscharow

--
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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed

[Chris Rowson]

I think part of the problem with these meetings is that given the
international basis of the marketing team, whenever you organise one,
someone will be unable to attend.

I propose that an agenda is fixed, with a set of issues to be
addressed and that the agenda is discussed at a group of regional
meetings.

The responses to the discussed issues could then be noted and fed
'back up' to the international level and a decision arrived upon based
on the common consensus of the regional findings.

Either that, or split the marketing team into regional marketing teams
with the main marketing team as an advice centre for people to discuss
and feed ideas up to. I did this over at ubuntu-uk here
https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-uk-marketing

Although we've not done much as of yet, it is a good way to identify
people with an interest in marketing in each locality and I'm sure
formalising the process would help get things moving along more
smoothly.

Chris

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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed

[Rubén Hubuntu]

The idea with wikis is to do collaborative work in an incremental phase.

I see your point, but after hanging around for a while I found out
that the best way to make impact within your community activities is
to use the wiki as a cooperative tool. And yes, it means an effort in
learning the syntax (and yes, I know it is nightmarish, but you will
be happy you did :)

So everybody needs to get involved in the general maintenance of the
wiki page, and certainly a core group is going to raise to adress this
issue. But let us just get a meeting arranged and we take it from
there, will you all folks?

Next week, say wednesday/thursday?

This thread is about finding a passing date for the meeting, let us
keep this in foucs. Else we are just going around in circles...

R.

On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 10:48 AM, John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Vid,
>
> The problem with your suggestion is that it assumes everyone is
> comfortable using the Wiki. I took a look at  the meeting page, and as
> someone who is just learning how to use wiki code, I am reluctant to
> touch that page for fear of messing it up. We all seem to know how to
> use email :-)
>
> A suggestion: Perhaps someone on the team who actually monitors this
> list amd who knows wiki code could volunteer to update the team wiki
> pages on, say, a daily basis.
>
> Anyone want to take that on? Having an up-to-date wiki page would do
> much to help keep the team organized.
>
> Peace!
>
> John
>
> On Fri, 2008-05-30 at 03:02 +0100, VidA wrote:
>> On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 10:23 PM, John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > We need to hear from everyone re: their time zone so that we can get
>>
>> Folks, do add your preferences on the meetings wikipage[1], which has
>> a schedule for prefered individual  timings.
>> After the meeting date is fixed, please mail this list with a CC to
>> the fridge list and it will be put on the Fridge.
>>
>> [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings
>>
>> --
>> Vid
>> || http://www.svaksha.com ||
>>
> --
> Peace!
>
> John
>
> You do have choice on what operating system you use:
> http://www.ubuntu.com/
>
> I am an Ubuntu user!
> My profile: https://launchpad.net/~jbotscharow
> My wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnBotscharow
>
> --
> Read my blog: http://hbotscharow.com
> John Botscharow: Reflections on Religion, Politics & Life
>
>
> --
> ubuntu-marketing mailing list
> ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
>

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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed

[John Botscharow]

Vid,

The problem with your suggestion is that it assumes everyone is
comfortable using the Wiki. I took a look at  the meeting page, and as
someone who is just learning how to use wiki code, I am reluctant to
touch that page for fear of messing it up. We all seem to know how to
use email :-) 

A suggestion: Perhaps someone on the team who actually monitors this
list amd who knows wiki code could volunteer to update the team wiki
pages on, say, a daily basis.

Anyone want to take that on? Having an up-to-date wiki page would do
much to help keep the team organized.

Peace!

John

On Fri, 2008-05-30 at 03:02 +0100, VidA wrote:
> On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 10:23 PM, John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > We need to hear from everyone re: their time zone so that we can get
> 
> Folks, do add your preferences on the meetings wikipage[1], which has
> a schedule for prefered individual  timings.
> After the meeting date is fixed, please mail this list with a CC to
> the fridge list and it will be put on the Fridge.
> 
> [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings
> 
> -- 
> Vid
> || http://www.svaksha.com ||
> 
-- 
Peace!

John

You do have choice on what operating system you use:
http://www.ubuntu.com/

I am an Ubuntu user!
My profile: https://launchpad.net/~jbotscharow
My wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnBotscharow

--
Read my blog: http://hbotscharow.com
John Botscharow: Reflections on Religion, Politics & Life


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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed

[Danny Piccirillo]

-5 eastern time

On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 5:23 PM, John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> We need to hear from everyone re: their time zone so that we can get
> this meeting set up. I, for one, and I don't think I am alone here, that
> having this meeting to answer the questions on the agenda should be our
> first order of nusiness and should be done ASAP. Until we do this,
> folks, we are just spinning our wheels.
>
> I.ve only seen maybe a dozen responses statring time zones out of
> almost, allegedly, 400 registered users. Now I know we won't get
> responses from THAt many, but only half, amybe, of the people who have
> posted here in the last couple of weeks have responded.
>
> PLEASE respond with your time zone ASAP so this meeting can happen and
> we can get this team doing what it supposed to do - MARKETING!!!
>
>
> On Thu, 2008-05-29 at 06:48 +0800, Onno Benschop wrote:
> > On 29/05/08 02:40, John Vilsack wrote:
> > > How do you feel about putting about proposing this to the Community
> > > Council?  Is leadership what this group needs above all else?
> > >
> > I agree that this needs to happen, but until we have figured out how
> > we're going to do what we're talking about and how we plan to manage it,
> > it might be a little premature.
> >
> > Allow me to make a proposal that works towards your suggestion.
> >
> > I'm in UTC+8, if all here who wish to participate could note their local
> > time-zone, then we could all meet on IRC and have a discussion about
> this.
> >
> > I'm not sure if we'd need to book ubuntu-meeting, but I'm sure we can if
> > that is required. I note that the normal meeting time is the fourth
> > Tuesday of the month, but I think that we may need to at least initially
> > increase the frequency and consistency of that meeting.
> >
> > I propose that we discuss some or all of the following:
> >
> > * role of ubuntu-marketing within Ubuntu
> > * interaction between ubuntu-marketing and Canonical
> > * aims for ubuntu-marketing
> > * plan on how to achieve the aims
> > * documentation
> > * team leader
> >
> > I agree with comments made that in a group such as ours a consensus
> > leader is required. Until such time, I am happy to chair that initial
> > IRC meeting with the understanding that I am not equating that interim
> > step with becoming the team leader.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Onno Benschop
> >
> > Connected via Optus B3 at S31°54'06" - E115°50'39" (Yokine, WA)
> > --
> > ()/)/)()..ASCII for Onno..
> > |>>?..EBCDIC for Onno..
> > --- -. -. ---   ..Morse for Onno..
> >
> > ITmaze   -   ABN: 56 178 057 063   -  ph: 04 1219    -
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> >
> --
> Peace!
>
> John
>
> You do have choice on what operating system you use:
> http://www.ubuntu.com/
>
> I am an Ubuntu user!
> My profile: 
> https://launchpad.net/~jbotscharow
> My wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnBotscharow
>
> --
> Read my blog: http://hbotscharow.com
> John Botscharow: Reflections on Religion, Politics & Life
>
>
> --
> ubuntu-marketing mailing list
> ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
>
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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed

[alan c]

John Botscharow wrote:
> We need to hear from everyone re: their time zone so that we can get
> this meeting set up. I, for one, and I don't think I am alone here, that
> having this meeting to answer the questions on the agenda should be our
> first order of nusiness and should be done ASAP. Until we do this,
> folks, we are just spinning our wheels. 
> 
> I.ve only seen maybe a dozen responses statring time zones out of
> almost, allegedly, 400 registered users. Now I know we won't get
> responses from THAt many, but only half, amybe, of the people who have
> posted here in the last couple of weeks have responded.
> 
> PLEASE respond with your time zone ASAP so this meeting can happen and
> we can get this team doing what it supposed to do - MARKETING!!!

I regret that irc is not usually feasible  for me here, so I do not 
expect I will be around. Anyway, I have already expressed my views on 
this list.
-- 
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Kubuntu user#10391

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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed

[RJ]

Already said it but : GMT +1 (UK) / +2 (FRANCE) depending on weeks. +2 most of 
the time tho.

Regards,

Jonathan

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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed

[Bruno Barrera Yever]

UTC -5 (DST)

On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 9:02 PM, VidA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 10:23 PM, John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> We need to hear from everyone re: their time zone so that we can get
>
> Folks, do add your preferences on the meetings wikipage[1], which has
> a schedule for prefered individual  timings.
> After the meeting date is fixed, please mail this list with a CC to
> the fridge list and it will be put on the Fridge.
>
> [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings
>
> --
> Vid
> || http://www.svaksha.com ||
>
> --
> ubuntu-marketing mailing list
> ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed

[VidA]

On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 10:23 PM, John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> We need to hear from everyone re: their time zone so that we can get

Folks, do add your preferences on the meetings wikipage[1], which has
a schedule for prefered individual  timings.
After the meeting date is fixed, please mail this list with a CC to
the fridge list and it will be put on the Fridge.

[1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings

-- 
Vid
|| http://www.svaksha.com ||

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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed

[Rubén Hubuntu]

UTC +2

Another human :)

R

On 5/29/08, John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> We need to hear from everyone re: their time zone so that we can get
> this meeting set up. I, for one, and I don't think I am alone here, that
> having this meeting to answer the questions on the agenda should be our
> first order of nusiness and should be done ASAP. Until we do this,
> folks, we are just spinning our wheels.
>
> I.ve only seen maybe a dozen responses statring time zones out of
> almost, allegedly, 400 registered users. Now I know we won't get
> responses from THAt many, but only half, amybe, of the people who have
> posted here in the last couple of weeks have responded.
>
> PLEASE respond with your time zone ASAP so this meeting can happen and
> we can get this team doing what it supposed to do - MARKETING!!!
>
>
> On Thu, 2008-05-29 at 06:48 +0800, Onno Benschop wrote:
>> On 29/05/08 02:40, John Vilsack wrote:
>> > How do you feel about putting about proposing this to the Community
>> > Council?  Is leadership what this group needs above all else?
>> >
>> I agree that this needs to happen, but until we have figured out how
>> we're going to do what we're talking about and how we plan to manage it,
>> it might be a little premature.
>>
>> Allow me to make a proposal that works towards your suggestion.
>>
>> I'm in UTC+8, if all here who wish to participate could note their local
>> time-zone, then we could all meet on IRC and have a discussion about this.
>>
>> I'm not sure if we'd need to book ubuntu-meeting, but I'm sure we can if
>> that is required. I note that the normal meeting time is the fourth
>> Tuesday of the month, but I think that we may need to at least initially
>> increase the frequency and consistency of that meeting.
>>
>> I propose that we discuss some or all of the following:
>>
>> * role of ubuntu-marketing within Ubuntu
>> * interaction between ubuntu-marketing and Canonical
>> * aims for ubuntu-marketing
>> * plan on how to achieve the aims
>> * documentation
>> * team leader
>>
>> I agree with comments made that in a group such as ours a consensus
>> leader is required. Until such time, I am happy to chair that initial
>> IRC meeting with the understanding that I am not equating that interim
>> step with becoming the team leader.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Onno Benschop
>>
>> Connected via Optus B3 at S31°54'06" - E115°50'39" (Yokine, WA)
>> --
>> ()/)/)()..ASCII for Onno..
>> |>>?..EBCDIC for Onno..
>> --- -. -. ---   ..Morse for Onno..
>>
>> ITmaze   -   ABN: 56 178 057 063   -  ph: 04 1219    -
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>>
>>
> --
> Peace!
>
> John
>
> You do have choice on what operating system you use:
> http://www.ubuntu.com/
>
> I am an Ubuntu user!
> My profile: https://launchpad.net/~jbotscharow
> My wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnBotscharow
>
> --
> Read my blog: http://hbotscharow.com
> John Botscharow: Reflections on Religion, Politics & Life
>
>
> --
> ubuntu-marketing mailing list
> ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
>

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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed

[Alan Lord]

John Botscharow wrote:
> We need to hear from everyone re: their time zone so that we can get
> this meeting set up. 

GMT +1 (Another Brit!)

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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed

[Philip Newborough]

On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 11:01 PM, Chris Rowson
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> PLEASE respond with your time zone ASAP so this meeting can happen and
>>> we can get this team doing what it supposed to do - MARKETING!!!
>
> British Summer Time (GMT +1)
>
> Chris
>
Another bod from the UK here. UTC +1.

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Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed

[Chris Rowson]

>> PLEASE respond with your time zone ASAP so this meeting can happen and
>> we can get this team doing what it supposed to do - MARKETING!!!

British Summer Time (GMT +1)

Chris

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[ubuntu-marketing] Organizational meeting proposed

[John Botscharow]

We need to hear from everyone re: their time zone so that we can get
this meeting set up. I, for one, and I don't think I am alone here, that
having this meeting to answer the questions on the agenda should be our
first order of nusiness and should be done ASAP. Until we do this,
folks, we are just spinning our wheels. 

I.ve only seen maybe a dozen responses statring time zones out of
almost, allegedly, 400 registered users. Now I know we won't get
responses from THAt many, but only half, amybe, of the people who have
posted here in the last couple of weeks have responded.

PLEASE respond with your time zone ASAP so this meeting can happen and
we can get this team doing what it supposed to do - MARKETING!!!


On Thu, 2008-05-29 at 06:48 +0800, Onno Benschop wrote:
> On 29/05/08 02:40, John Vilsack wrote:
> > How do you feel about putting about proposing this to the Community
> > Council?  Is leadership what this group needs above all else?
> >   
> I agree that this needs to happen, but until we have figured out how
> we're going to do what we're talking about and how we plan to manage it,
> it might be a little premature.
> 
> Allow me to make a proposal that works towards your suggestion.
> 
> I'm in UTC+8, if all here who wish to participate could note their local
> time-zone, then we could all meet on IRC and have a discussion about this.
> 
> I'm not sure if we'd need to book ubuntu-meeting, but I'm sure we can if
> that is required. I note that the normal meeting time is the fourth
> Tuesday of the month, but I think that we may need to at least initially
> increase the frequency and consistency of that meeting.
> 
> I propose that we discuss some or all of the following:
> 
> * role of ubuntu-marketing within Ubuntu
> * interaction between ubuntu-marketing and Canonical
> * aims for ubuntu-marketing
> * plan on how to achieve the aims
> * documentation
> * team leader
> 
> I agree with comments made that in a group such as ours a consensus
> leader is required. Until such time, I am happy to chair that initial
> IRC meeting with the understanding that I am not equating that interim
> step with becoming the team leader.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Onno Benschop
> 
> Connected via Optus B3 at S31°54'06" - E115°50'39" (Yokine, WA)
> --
> ()/)/)()..ASCII for Onno..
> |>>?..EBCDIC for Onno..
> --- -. -. ---   ..Morse for Onno..
> 
> ITmaze   -   ABN: 56 178 057 063   -  ph: 04 1219    -   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> 
-- 
Peace!

John

You do have choice on what operating system you use:
http://www.ubuntu.com/

I am an Ubuntu user!
My profile: https://launchpad.net/~jbotscharow
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