[WSG] PHP validation problem
I have a PHP file that fails validation.
The W3C validator claims that there are three divs missing their closing tag,
or that perhaps there is something in the divs that the validator doesn't like.
I suspect the later as I did a view source and copied the code (minus the PHP
code, in this case) to a new file, saved it as html and ran it through the
validator and it passed.
Here's the code (minus a few meta tags to make it shorter) - maybe another set
of eyes...:
?php
error_reporting(0);
date_default_timezone_set (America/New_York);
require ('../admin/handlers/db_connect.php');
mysql_query(SET NAMES 'UTF8');
include('../admin/handlers/website_functions.php');
$title = '';
if (isset($_GET['id'])) {
$subtitle = '';
if (get_content('custom_products','subtitle',$_GET['id']) != '') { $subtitle =
': '.get_content('custom_products','subtitle',$_GET['id']); }
$title = get_content('custom_products','title',$_GET['id']).$subtitle.' -
'.get_content('custom_authors','fname',get_content('custom_products','author_id',$_GET['id'])).'
'.get_content('custom_authors','lname',get_content('custom_products','author_id',$_GET['id']));
if
(get_content('custom_authors','suffix',get_content('custom_products','author_id',$_GET['id']))
!= '') { $title .= ',
'.get_content('custom_authors','suffix',get_content('custom_products','author_id',$_GET['id']));
}
}
$description = 'Cedar Tree Books is a Wilmington, Delaware publisher of
non-fiction, local history books. Cedar Tree Books also assists authors in
self-publishing, as well as, commissions works by local historians and solicits
manuscripts from Wilmington area writers.';
if (isset($_GET['id'])
get_content('custom_products','meta_description',$_GET['id']) != '') {
$description = get_content('custom_products','meta_description',$_GET['id']); }
?
!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN
http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd;
html
head
meta http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html; charset=UTF-8
title?php echo strip_tags($title); ?/title
meta http-equiv=content-language content=en-us
meta name=Description content=?php echo strip_tags($description) ?
meta name=Keywords content=?php echo strip_tags(strtolower(str_replace(' -
',' ',$title))); ?
link href=../as/cs/pop_cat.css rel=stylesheet type=text/css
/head
body
div id=wrapper
div class=pop_box_top!--IE Hack--/div
div class=pop_box_con
div class=pop_con
?php
$search_product = mysql_query(SELECT * FROM custom_products WHERE id =
'.$_GET['id'].');
$verify_product = mysql_num_rows($search_product);
if (!isset($_GET['id']) || $verify_product == 0) { header('Location:
../index.php'); exit(); } else {
$result_product = mysql_fetch_array($search_product);
$edit_type = 'by';
if ($result_product['product_type'] == 1) { $edit_type = 'edited by'; }
if ($result_product['author_id'] == 0) { $edit_type = ''; }
$isbn = '';
if ($result_product['isbn_no'] != '') { $isbn = 'brISBN
'.$result_product['isbn_no']; }
$author = '';
if ($result_product['author_id'] != 0) {
$author = get_content('custom_authors','fname',$result_product['author_id']).'
'.get_content('custom_authors','lname',$result_product['author_id']);
if (get_content('custom_authors','suffix',$result_product['author_id']) != '')
{ $author .= ',
'.get_content('custom_authors','suffix',$result_product['author_id']); }
}
if ($result_product['coauthor_id'] != 0) {
$author .= ' and
'.get_content('custom_authors','fname',$result_product['coauthor_id']).'
'.get_content('custom_authors','lname',$result_product['coauthor_id']);
if (get_content('custom_authors','suffix',$result_product['coauthor_id']) !=
'') { $author .= ',
'.get_content('custom_authors','suffix',$result_product['coauthor_id']); }
}
$subtitle = '';
if ($result_product['subtitle'] != '') { $subtitle =
':br'.$result_product['subtitle']; }
$title = $result_product['title'].$subtitle;
echo '
h1'.$title.'/h1
h2em'.$edit_type.' '.$author.'/em/h2
div class=rule/div
div class=frimg class=bord
src=../as/im/'.get_content('custom_categories','normal_url',$result_product['category_id']).$result_product['photo'].'_lrg.jpg
alt='.strip_tags($result_product['title']).' /div
'.$result_product['content'].'
pem'.$result_product['description'].'
'.$isbn.'/em/p
';
}
?
div class=clearit/div
/div
/div
div class=pop_box_bot!--IE Hack--/div
/div
?php include (analyticsTracking.php); ?
/body
/html
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Re: [WSG] PHP validation problem
The file when saved as a noPHPcode html file passes validation, it fails when doing a live validation.No the messages did not help (at least I can't find anything wrong):Validation Output: 3 ErrorsLine 28, Column 5:end tag for "DIV" omitted, but its declaration does not permit this✉You forgot to close a tag, oryou used something inside this tag that was not allowed, and the validator is complaining that the tag should be closed before such content can be allowed.The next message, "start tag was here" points to the particular instance of the tag in question); the positional indicator points to where the validator expected you to close the tag.Line 27, Column 1:start tag was herediv class="pop_con"Line 28, Column 5:end tag for "DIV" omitted, but its declaration does not permit this✉You forgot to close a tag, oryou used something inside this tag that was not allowed, and the validator is complaining that the tag should be closed before such content can be allowed.The next message, "start tag was here" points to the particular instance of the tag in question); the positional indicator points to where the validator expected you to close the tag.Line 26, Column 1:start tag was herediv class="pop_box_con"Line 28, Column 5:end tag for "DIV" omitted, but its declaration does not permit this✉You forgot to close a tag, oryou used something inside this tag that was not allowed, and the validator is complaining that the tag should be closed before such content can be allowed.The next message, "start tag was here" points to the particular instance of the tag in question); the positional indicator points to where the validator expected you to close the tag.Line 24, Column 1:start tag was herediv id="wrapper"Bob Schwartz b...@fotografics.itI have a PHP file that fails validation.The W3C validator claims that there are three divs missing their closing tag, or that perhaps there is something in the divs that the validator doesn't like.I saved the php you included to a file, validated it by upload onhttp://validator.w3.org/ and it passed as HTML 4.01 Strict. How didit fail for you? Did the links to more information on the errors nothelp?Confused,-- MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op.http://koha-community.org supporter, web and library systems developer.In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.htmlAvailable for hire (including development) at http://www.software.coop/***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org*** ***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
Mevlana, Thank you. This seems to be what I'm looking for. Now I'll just need to experiment with trying to write a javascript (not my forte) that will publish a link to the site on the page if it was not opened as a pop-up and that should fix the problem. Best, Bob Bob, The following site may give you an idea: http://javascript.about.com/library/blpoptest.htm Basically, each popup window has an 'opener'. If the 'opener' exists, then user has come to the page via a popup, else the user has come via another method. Regards Mevlana On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 10:19 AM, wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * From: Bob Schwartz b...@fotografics.it Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 11:14:59 +0200 Subject: pop up windows and Google I have several sites where i use pop-up windows to present certain types of information. When someone does a Google search sometimes Google lists results from these pop-up pages. When the searcher clicks on the Google result he gets the pop-up window as a stand-alone page in his browser with no links to anywhere on the actual site. Savvy people would just delete the part after the domain in the url bar, hit enter and be at the site, but I'm discovering not all are savvy. So, is anyone aware of any clever javascript that would detect if the page had not been opened as a pop-up and write a link to the actual site (and not write the link if opened as a pop-up)? Or, any other suggestion (besides don't use pop-ups)? Thank you, Bob Schwartz ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] pop up windows and Google
Tee, Thank you. Your evaluation advice has been filed for future use. In this particular case the certain types of information do not belong to any of their host pages, but I do see the value of your advice if I ever have a case where they do. Best, Bob A simple back link should work, if the popup can be accessed in every page, maybe you need to link to home, if not, link to the page where the popup link shows. IMHO, you may want to re-evaluate the technicality of the popup. If the certain types of information belong to a section of a page, you can still use popup, but make sure that when JS turns off, the certain types of information is treated as part of the page, not a link that pulls a page of content via Ajax fetch (and I assume that is what you used); you can achieve this by using combination of simple show/hide and absolute positioning for the popup div, this way, there will be no issue with google search result. tee On May 12, 2011, at 2:14 AM, Bob Schwartz wrote: I have several sites where i use pop-up windows to present certain types of information. When someone does a Google search sometimes Google lists results from these pop-up pages. When the searcher clicks on the Google result he gets the pop-up window as a stand-alone page in his browser with no links to anywhere on the actual site. Savvy people would just delete the part after the domain in the url bar, hit enter and be at the site, but I'm discovering not all are savvy. So, is anyone aware of any clever javascript that would detect if the page had not been opened as a pop-up and write a link to the actual site (and not write the link if opened as a pop-up)? Or, any other suggestion (besides don't use pop-ups)? Thank you, Bob Schwartz *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] pop up windows and Google
I have several sites where i use pop-up windows to present certain types of information. When someone does a Google search sometimes Google lists results from these pop-up pages. When the searcher clicks on the Google result he gets the pop-up window as a stand-alone page in his browser with no links to anywhere on the actual site. Savvy people would just delete the part after the domain in the url bar, hit enter and be at the site, but I'm discovering not all are savvy. So, is anyone aware of any clever javascript that would detect if the page had not been opened as a pop-up and write a link to the actual site (and not write the link if opened as a pop-up)? Or, any other suggestion (besides don't use pop-ups)? Thank you, Bob Schwartz *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] meta tag questions
I have questions regarding two types of meta tags, Dublin Core and geo.position: 1. Dublin Core: I have only been able to find older studies (2000) regarding the possible improvement in search engine positioning through the use of these tags. The conclusion in these olders studies was no significant imporvement, however they did go on to say that in the future these tags will play a more important role. Has that future arrived or are these tags essentialy still code bloat? 2. geo.position: According to Wikipedia geo.position tags help in returning regional search requests, or as they put it: It understandably makes little sense to look for a baker and find one who has his shop in a completely different town. If this is the case, then it would seem putting geo.position tags on a bed and breakfast site in Pisa, Italy that is trying to reach potential guests around the world would not be a good idea. Anyone have any experience or thoughts regarding these tags? Thanks, Bob Schwartz *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] meta tag questions
Ben, I think that you've looked at the issue from the wrong side in that you assume it would only show in regional searches (e.g. an italian search engine) whereas in actual fact it should show up in a global search for that region - e.g. if I search for hotels pisa italy I would expect it to show up as it's geo.position clearly states that is where it is and so the search engine can be 100% sure that it is in the area I'm looking for. That's why I posted, to get another perspective - thanks - what you say makes perfect sense. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] meta tag questions
Hi Robert. Does the geo ontology/schema also represent properties for longitude and latitude? I wrote a geospacial inferencing engine a while back for inferring distances between points using the great circle method. From memory, I think it used the geo schema. If it is for a web page, also look at using an 'ICBM' meta tag (eg. meta name=ICBM content=12.345, -67.890 / ). Yes and the ICBM is part of them. As best I can tell a complete set looks like this: meta name=geo.placename content=loc. Amerique, 10, 11020 Quart, Aosta (Valle d'Aosta), Italy meta name=geo.position content=45.740005;7.368822 meta name=geo.region content=IT-Valle d'Aosta meta name=ICBM content=45.740005, 7.368822 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Marking up company logo
I think someone the other day hit the nail on the head and it fits with your newspaper analogy. h1 class=mastheadfor the logo/h1 h1Title/h1 My take on this, is that IT ALL DEPENDS ! Every site is different. For example: www.calcresult.com does not use a traditional image-based logo, so the arguments that the site logo is 'just a simple image' fails completely. Some sites look a bit like a newspaper. Newspapers themselves vary considerably (in the UK at least.) Some have their name in large type, eg the SUN Others prefer a more subtle masthead, like The Times If I had to replicate the former, I would undoubtedly put the word SUN into an H1 - they care about their brand, and have little or no logo. For The Times, I would not use an H1 - they believe that their reputation speaks for itself. Regards, Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jen Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 1:40 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Marking up company logo An h1 is definitely not for marking up the company logo. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] form select help needed
If you go to http://www.bobstestplace.com/aahid/ using Safari on the Mac and click on either of the drop down form menus in the right column you will see the option list open below the form menu select in a window that is wide enough to view the entire name of each option. This seems to be default behavior with Safari. If you do the same with FireFox, some clipping occurs. If you do the same with IE6, a lot of clipping occurs. The question: Any way to get the other browsers (and especially IE6) to display like, or nearly like (I would be happy if IE6 was at least like FF), Safari? Thanks, Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] form select help needed
tee,
That seems to have brought FF around, but IE6 is still clipping.
Bob
On May 28, 2008, at 5:19 AM, Bob Schwartz wrote:
Any way to get the other browsers (and especially IE6) to display
like, or nearly like (I would be happy if IE6 was at least like
FF), Safari?
add width to option attribute.
#rht_col option {width: 250px;
padding: 0 3px;
}
tee
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Re: [WSG] form select help needed
William, the select tag has a set width. There is a chance that IE is restricting the list to that set width and using this set width as the view port of the option list. Look it up. I suspect that is the problem also. I have been looking for a solution, but not getting anywhere, which is why the post. I also noticed how the list opened upwards for me, as opposed to a 'drop down' combo box. Weird, but maybe related to the browser window height. Also found validation error on the input tag on the select list form not close in xhtml format. Fixed Also is the javascript orientation for the list the best option. Accessibility issues can rise. A 'Go' button could assist. I'm sure there are better ideas from other members. Probably not, but if I can't solve this IE clipping problem I may have to re-think the whole idea. Once the IE thing is solved, I'll look further into triggering the links. Bob Schwartz wrote: If you go to http://www.bobstestplace.com/aahid/ using Safari on the Mac and click on either of the drop down form menus in the right column you will see the option list open below the form menu select in a window that is wide enough to view the entire name of each option. This seems to be default behavior with Safari. If you do the same with FireFox, some clipping occurs. If you do the same with IE6, a lot of clipping occurs. The question: Any way to get the other browsers (and especially IE6) to display like, or nearly like (I would be happy if IE6 was at least like FF), Safari? Thanks, Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] div/span inside table cell problem
Why don't you take the stying off the spans, give the table 100% width
and see what happens.
Bob
hi,
I have a table like this. Each table cell has two values which has
put inside a span. I want this two values come horizontally... now
its coming as two lines...
how can i show this values in a single line. I cant set any value as
width for the TD since its dynamically created value. the TD shouls
stretch according to the contents...
pls help.
thanks in advance..
table
tr
tdspan class=price value/spanspan class=discountvalue/
span/td
tdspan class=price value/spanspan class=discountvalue/
span/td
tdspan class=price value/spanspan class=discountvalue/
span/td
tdspan class=price value/spanspan class=discountvalue/
span/td
/tr
tr
tdspan class=price value/spanspan class=discountvalue/
span/td
tdspan class=price value/spanspan class=discountvalue/
span/td
tdspan class=price value/spanspan class=discountvalue/
span/td
tdspan class=price value/spanspan class=discountvalue/
span/td
/tr
tr
tdspan class=price value/spanspan class=discountvalue/
span/td
tdspan class=price value/spanspan class=discountvalue/
span/td
tdspan class=price value/spanspan class=discountvalue/
span/td
tdspan class=price value/spanspan class=discountvalue/
span/td
/tr
/table
.price, . discount {
display:block;
float:left;
}
--
navii
-
thanks and regards
Naveen Bhaskar Menon
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[WSG] Strange things indeed
I have a site in progress that is giving me a couple of problems:
1. in all browsers, I seem to have accidently styled away (without
styling them at all) the default form button look, but I can't find
the cause.
The only styles that I can see that might have an affect are these,
but removing them doesn't change anything (as far as the buttons
returning to default look goes):
html, body, form, fieldset {
font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;
font-size: 100.1%;
}
form label {
cursor: pointer;
}
fieldset {
border: 0;
}
example: http://www.fotografics.eu/ctb/wp/man.html
2. in IE6 I have a box that has random quotes in it.
On some of the quotes, the ending quote gif is getting clipped on the
right with the clipped part showing on the left - partially repeating
(?) even though the style is no-repeat. (refresh the page until you
get one that does it).
example: http://www.fotografics.eu/ctb/wp/aut_intro.html
Any help resolving these issues would be greatly appreciated.
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Re: [WSG] Strange things indeed
That did it, thanks a lot.
Now if I could just figure out IE6 on my quotes.
Would this be doing it?
/* Neutralize styling */
* {
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
border: 0;
}
By removing the border margin and padding from every element, your
buttons is just a grey square. You might need to be more specific
about which elements to reset.
--
Josh Nunn || 040-888-4168 || http://nunnone.com
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Re: [WSG] Strange things indeed
Thanks for the tip.
I'll assume the margin/padding/border reset is part of a complete
css reset/restyle attempt.
Yes, it is.
You don't need to set all borders to 0 - I can't think of any
bordered elements other than the button offhand and you'd add in the
table border settings as part of your css reset separately.
That said, the beginning of your css file be:
* {
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
}
For tables:
table {
border: 0;
border-collapse: collapse;
}
This would replace what you have and have the desired effects.
Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer / Developer/
--
Sites by Joe, LLC
/Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
Phone: (609) 335-3076
Fax: (866) 301-8045
Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bob Schwartz wrote:
That did it, thanks a lot.
Now if I could just figure out IE6 on my quotes.
Would this be doing it?
/* Neutralize styling */
* {
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
border: 0;
}
By removing the border margin and padding from every element, your
buttons is just a grey square. You might need to be more specific
about which elements to reset.
--
Josh Nunn || 040-888-4168 || http://nunnone.com
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joe.vcf
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Re: [WSG] Best way to clear a float
I used br clear: both until I read somewhere authoritive that it's better to use a div. So I started using a div and IE reared its ugly head on occasion. Georg from Norway gave me an IE bug killer div!-- --/div (clear: both in CSS) and I've had no more problems. Hello, I am curious to see how others clear floats. Here is the problem. Div one and two float left and take 50% of the screen. Content is to go below the two floats. div style=float: leftone/div div style=float: lefttwo/div divContent/div In the past I would use: div style=float: leftone/div div style=float: lefttwo/div br style=clear: both; / divContent/div As this seemed to be the only method to make the clear work in IE. I am curious to see how others do this and if you are doing it with out using the br style=clear:both / What method are you using to make this work in IE? Thanks Jamie *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Help IE
Thanks James. I have a windows box for testing IE6, what I don't have is a good memory for IE6 bugs, especially since they only show up when I'm doing a tight pixel perfect design. The site I had problems with in this thread was the same basic design of another, less pixel perfect site that works just fine in IE6 with no bug killers added. Bob Not related to your IE issues, but if you need some help with testing in IE (including multiple IEs), here's a fairly successful workflow to follow as a write up in the WSG resource section: http://webstandardsgroup.org/manage/resource_display.cfm? resource_id=896 I've found this makes a whole load of testing issues a non-issue :) HTH James *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Help IE
Thanks Georg, I bookmarked al the links you provided. Bob Schwartz wrote: I have a windows box for testing IE6, what I don't have is a good memory for IE6 bugs, especially since they only show up when I'm doing a tight pixel perfect design. Don't memorize ... use online resources... http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer.html http://www.satzansatz.de/cssd/onhavinglayout.html http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/wrongWithIE/ http://www.webdevout.net/browser-support ...and create absurd test-cases... http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/wd_1_02_03.html IE/win's bugs are always present - in all versions, so if you don't see any then you're not trying hard enough to provoke them :-) regards Georg *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Help IE
I have a site in progress that is currently pixel perfect in all real browsers, it's all over the screen in IE 6 (don't yet know about IE7). I have spent hours looking to see what's breaking it in IE with no luck. If someone would be so kind as to have a look and see if you can figure it out (and in IE7, if possible). http://www.fgtestserver.net/rain/index.html Thanks, Bob Schwartz *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Help (another topic)
I have a client who wants a page personalized for him similar to this: http://www.vermiip.es/il-mio-ip/ so people can discover their IP. I have Googled about trying to find code that does it, but all I find are site that do it. Does anyone know (have) the code? Bob Schwartz *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Help IE
that's a relief, one down. one to go. Thanks, bob Hi Bob, Can't help you with ie6 but thought I would let you know that it seems to be fine in IE7. Cheers Adam Bob Schwartz wrote: I have a site in progress that is currently pixel perfect in all real browsers, it's all over the screen in IE 6 (don't yet know about IE7). I have spent hours looking to see what's breaking it in IE with no luck. If someone would be so kind as to have a look and see if you can figure it out (and in IE7, if possible). http://www.fgtestserver.net/rain/index.html Thanks, Bob Schwartz *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Help IE
Thanks Georg
That fixed the floats, but the center content box still has a problem
between the tabs and the main body of the content box in IE6.
(fresh version uploaded)
As for the height - min-height, those are just in until content comes
to hold the boxes open for the client to see.
Bob Schwartz wrote:
I have a site in progress that is currently pixel perfect in all
real browsers, it's all over the screen in IE 6 (don't yet know about
IE7).
IE7 is doing fine :-)
http://www.fgtestserver.net/rain/index.html
IE6' margin-doubling on floats bug is causing most damage.
Adding...
#con {
display:inline;
}
#rhtcol {
display:inline;
margin-left: -10px;
}
...will kill that bug, and also provide a bit more space for IE6
lack of
respect for declared dimensions.
Only a few more IE6 bugs left for you to fix then.
While you're at it: There's no point in declaring both 'min-height'
and
'height' with same, fixed, value on an element. Fixed 'height' is
fixed
'height' in all but IE6 and older.
True that IE6 doesn't understand 'min-height' but if that's what
you're
trying to fix then make sure other browsers can't see that 'height'
you're serving IE6.
regards
Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [WSG] Help IE
Georg,
I'm still getting a problem with the area under the tabs, IE is
showing about 25px of the content background (con-cen) above the top
content curve (con-top)
In other words, the con-top div is looking to be 25px or so under con-
mnu.
Bob Schwartz wrote:
http://www.fgtestserver.net/rain/index.html
The other problems in IE6 are related to the white-space bug and
IE's
need for 'Layout'.
#outerWrapper, #innerWrapper {height: 1%;}
...will act as 'hasLayout' triggers where necessary.
The white-space bug is caused by empty elements, which IE/win
interprets to have a space. That space is consequently given
line-height, and IE6 doesn't respect declared dimensions so the
elements
get spaced out.
The easiest way to fix that bug-combination is to eliminate the
emptiness by placing an HTML comment inside empty elements - tightly
with no space at either side, like so...
div id=con-top!-- --/div
Repeating that on _all_ _empty_ elements makes IE/win understand that
there isn't any space for its bugs.
Result - which I of course have tested for your page - is near perfect
rendering in IE6 compared to other browsers.
You do have the 'overflow: hidden' alternative for that white-space
bug - forcing IE6 to respect declared dimensions. However, that
solution
may hide too much in some cases, and I didn't bother to test it for
your
layout.
regards
Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [WSG] Help (another topic)
Thanks James, Only one minor problem, I know nearly nothing about PHP. How would I write this up? Bob For something that simple you could use PHP and use $_SERVER ['REMOTE_ADDR'] www.php.net James On Nov 10, 2007 1:41 PM, Bob Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a client who wants a page personalized for him similar to this: http://www.vermiip.es/il-mio-ip/ so people can discover their IP. I have Googled about trying to find code that does it, but all I find are site that do it. Does anyone know (have) the code? Bob Schwartz *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Help IE
No you're not. Strange. However what you do have that I don't is the roll-overs on the tabs aren't working and the left column is very close to the center box. So on my local site I have everything as it should be except the problem mentioned below and on your remote site, I'm seeing my problem fixed, and others broken. I just dearly love IE6. There's fresher version on my site (with your fixes in). Bob Schwartz wrote: I'm still getting a problem with the area under the tabs, IE is showing about 25px of the content background (con-cen) above the top content curve (con-top) I can't see that in IE6 for my (original) test case... http://www.gunlaug.no/tos/alien/bs-1/test_07_1110.html regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Help (another topic)
OK thanks, having just had my wrists slapped by another, I'll drop this off topic thread. Bob If you only want to show the user there IP address, something as simple as ?php print $_SERVER[''REMOTE_ADDR] ? ... would work. On Nov 10, 2007 3:30 PM, Bob Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks James, Only one minor problem, I know nearly nothing about PHP. How would I write this up? Bob For something that simple you could use PHP and use $_SERVER ['REMOTE_ADDR'] www.php.net James On Nov 10, 2007 1:41 PM, Bob Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a client who wants a page personalized for him similar to this: http://www.vermiip.es/il-mio-ip/ so people can discover their IP. I have Googled about trying to find code that does it, but all I find are site that do it. Does anyone know (have) the code? Bob Schwartz *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Help IE
Georg, Found the problem. I still had some empty divs (class clearit divs) after I put a comment in them, all is rosy in IE land. Thanks a lot for your help. Bob Bob Schwartz wrote: I'm still getting a problem with the area under the tabs, IE is showing about 25px of the content background (con-cen) above the top content curve (con-top) I can't see that in IE6 for my (original) test case... http://www.gunlaug.no/tos/alien/bs-1/test_07_1110.html regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] IE help
Some users have complained that when they go to this page http://www.fifeweb.org/wp/lib/lib_current.html and try to download the linked files with IE 7 they get a message stating something like Explorer is unable to download the requested file My Windows (server 2000) testing computer has IE 6 on it and all works fine. The links to the files are absolute, so my guess is these users either have some funny settings in thier IE 7, anti-virus programs, or some Norton firewall-like application. However if someone could have a look in IE 7 I would appreciate it. Thanks, Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] IE help
Thanks to all who responded. Some users have complained that when they go to this page http://www.fifeweb.org/wp/lib/lib_current.html and try to download the linked files with IE 7 they get a message stating something like Explorer is unable to download the requested file My Windows (server 2000) testing computer has IE 6 on it and all works fine. The links to the files are absolute, so my guess is these users either have some funny settings in thier IE 7, anti-virus programs, or some Norton firewall-like application. However if someone could have a look in IE 7 I would appreciate it. Thanks, Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] 100% height
So far, so good in IE 6 7 As soon as I have something to put up, I will. I'm still playing in local. let us know how you go I myself are in the middle of a website were I need something similar and it works fine in ie7 and firefox but breaks and looks horrible in ie6 Thanks [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/05/2007 9:19:37 pm Thanks, this one seems to be the best I've found so far. I'll take it for a test drive. Hope this will solve the problem: http://www.xs4all.nl/~peterned/examples/csslayout1.html regards Puneet Original Message: - From: Bob Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 14:41:10 +0200 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] 100% height Here's my problem: I need to have all the pages on a site fill the page at 100% of page height if lots of content or 100% of browser window iif short on content with the footer sitting nicely at the bottom in both cases in both IE 6 and IE7. Something I had no problems with until IE7 rolled out. I have searched around the web and not found anything I would consider THE solution. As I'm sure IE7 has done this to others, has anyone found a reliable solution? Thanks, Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** mail2web.com * What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you? http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security requirements for inbound transmission. ** ** ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission. This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au Phone: +61 08 9264 ** *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] 100% height
it broke. I put a properly cleared floated div inside the content div and the footer is now riding above the last few lines of the content. let us know how you go I myself are in the middle of a website were I need something similar and it works fine in ie7 and firefox but breaks and looks horrible in ie6 Thanks [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/05/2007 9:19:37 pm Thanks, this one seems to be the best I've found so far. I'll take it for a test drive. Hope this will solve the problem: http://www.xs4all.nl/~peterned/examples/csslayout1.html regards Puneet Original Message: - From: Bob Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 14:41:10 +0200 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] 100% height Here's my problem: I need to have all the pages on a site fill the page at 100% of page height if lots of content or 100% of browser window iif short on content with the footer sitting nicely at the bottom in both cases in both IE 6 and IE7. Something I had no problems with until IE7 rolled out. I have searched around the web and not found anything I would consider THE solution. As I'm sure IE7 has done this to others, has anyone found a reliable solution? Thanks, Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** mail2web.com * What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you? http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security requirements for inbound transmission. ** ** ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission. This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au Phone: +61 08 9264 ** *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] 100% height
I have been at it all day and no luck. Anyone who would like to help can see some test pages at: http://www.fotografics.it/test/ The problem is explained on the pages. Bob let us know how you go I myself are in the middle of a website were I need something similar and it works fine in ie7 and firefox but breaks and looks horrible in ie6 Here's my problem: I need to have all the pages on a site fill the page at 100% of page height if lots of content or 100% of browser window iif short on content with the footer sitting nicely at the bottom in both cases in both IE 6 and IE7. Something I had no problems with until IE7 rolled out. I have searched around the web and not found anything I would consider THE solution. As I'm sure IE7 has done this to others, has anyone found a reliable solution? Thanks, Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] 100% height
I'll try that, but I was sort of following: http://www.themaninblue.com/writing/perspective/2005/08/29/ which suggests to leave it outside. Bob Schwartz wrote: I have been at it all day and no luck. Anyone who would like to help can see some test pages at: http://www.fotografics.it/test/ The problem is explained on the pages. Bob try placing your footer inside the wrapper. -- Dwain Alford http://www.studiokdd.com The artist may use any form which his expression demands; for his inner impulse must find suitable expression. Kandinsky *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] 100% height
Here's my problem: I need to have all the pages on a site fill the page at 100% of page height if lots of content or 100% of browser window iif short on content with the footer sitting nicely at the bottom in both cases in both IE 6 and IE7. Something I had no problems with until IE7 rolled out. I have searched around the web and not found anything I would consider THE solution. As I'm sure IE7 has done this to others, has anyone found a reliable solution? Thanks, Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time
Stuart, I did as you suggested. I now have another bi-lingual site to do and was wondering if there is a way to mark up for languages (Italian/English) something like: linome/name/li span class perhaps? Seems like it would add a lot of bytes to the page. The declared language on the document will be Italian, as most of the text will be in that language. 1. You can use the lang attribute, div id=logoh1 lang=fr *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time
I ran my style sheets through the w3 validator and in the style sheet that comes with ThickBox I got the following errors. They seem to me to be CSS hacks that the author has used to solve problems with different browsers. Should I leave them, or fix them? #TB_overlay Parse Error - opacity=60) #TB_overlay Property -moz-opacity doesn't exist : 0.6 #TB_overlay Property opacity doesn't exist : 0.6 #TB_HideSelect Parse Error - opacity=0) #TB_HideSelect Property -moz-opacity doesn't exist : 0 #TB_HideSelect Property opacity doesn't exist : 0 #TB_iframeContent Property _margin-bottom doesn't exist : 1px *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time
In my primary style sheet I got 29 warnings like this: Same colors for color and background-color in two contexts .month and h5 As there are no h5's with a .month class anywhere in the site, I would assume I can just ignore these types of warnings, but it bugs me that the style sheet does not validate cleanly just the same. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time
Kenny, Your cites should probably not be in their own paragraphs if the cite can be styled directly. I took the cites out of the paragraphs and the page did not pass w3 validation, I put them back in and it did. Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time
Philip, It looks like the site may have problems displaying at widths of less than 1000px in Opera 9 and Firefox. The backgrounds don't stay within the three columns properly, leaving some text unreadable. Probably an issue with div positioning, and the box model since the problem doesn't seem to show up in IE -- which is what you presumably used to test the positioning. Got a fix? It's the body background (faux column)image that is shifting in FF. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time
Stuart, Your menu has links with the same anchor text but different destinations - introduction, current and members. When you can see the menu structure the context is obvious but when using a screen reader this can be confusing. OK. I've fixed them all but one and I'm at a loss to how to fix it. Dreamweaver is complaining that I am using this more than once to point to different URL's div id=rsshra href=http://www.fifeweb.org/feed/fife.xml;img src=../../as/im/xml.gif id=xml alt=RSS Feed title=FIFe RSS feed width=72 height=15/ahr/div The only other use of this URL is in the head: link rel=alternate type=application/rss+xml title=FIFe Feed href=http://www.fifeweb.org/feed/fife.xml; and on the page where I explain RSS: pa href=http://www.fifeweb.org/feed/fife.xml;http:// www.fifeweb.org/feed/fife.xml/anbsp;nbsp;nbsp;a href=http:// www.fifeweb.org/feed/fife.xmlimg src=../../as/im/xml.gif id=xmlfeed alt=RSS Feed title=FIFe RSS feed width=72 height=15/a/p Any thoughts? Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time
You should also perhaps markup your logo H1 content as a change from the declared natural language of the page (English). Thanks for you tips Stuart: 1. How do I do that? 2.I'm curious as to why you think it is necessary - it is the name of the association - I doubt if Danone or Armani marks their names up as French or Italian on their English sites. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time
Thanks Lyn, During the planning for the site re-do we relied pretty heavily on a year's worth of visitor stats in making decisions. One of the things our stats showed us was the very low percentage of 800 x 600 and below visitors we had, plus people were complaining that the site was looking too small, so we bumped it up. There was some discussion about keeping a lower res version, but the client ruled it out. Bob - I was wondering about the width of the #wrappers- 980px/960px which causes horizontal scrolling if viewed on a smaller screen resolution such as 800 x 600. I have always tried to avoid horizontal scolling sometimes with great difficulty - does it not matter so much now that many people are using higher screen resolutions? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time
Thanks Kenny, I would appreciate it if you guys could check it out for any errors or wrong practices Most/every page has two h1's, and there should only be one per page. Ideally, you should keep the h1 for the page title, but not for the site title. I've fixed these (not yet uploaded to test server). Your cites should probably not be in their own paragraphs if the cite can be styled directly. I've fixed these, too (not yet uploaded to test server) though I can't seem to get the exact styling (align-right) I want to work using css - the font-size does work, though. They look OK aligned left. Other than that, looks great. Thank you. Some may also say that having a splash screen page (a page with no other navigation other than enter) is a bad practice, but I think that's more a matter of personal preference. I like it, the client likes it :-} Olly Hodgson pointed out (here) that I should put links to the major sections of the site on it though, some I am studying a way to do that Best, Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time
Nick, As no screenreaders read title attributes by default (and no screenreader user ever changes the default setting, apparently) you aren't really deriving any benefit (at least in accessibility terms) from the title attributes, so they might as well go. They were originally put there when I took over the site several years ago as a means of letting people know what was where in the completely re-done site navigation. I suppose they have out lived their usefulness, so will go. Thanks for the tip. Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time
Stuart, Your menu has links with the same anchor text but different destinations - introduction, current and members. When you can see the menu structure the context is obvious but when using a screen reader this can This is a real head-scratcher. I'm having trouble finding other words that fit the space. but keep the meaning. I'll work on it. Thanks, Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time
Rob, The navigation is dependent on javascript for the flyouts which not only do the flyouts cease to work when js is turned off they also become dead links leaving only a partial working menu. What browser - OS are you using? In everything I've checked it in, the links are not dead with javascript turned off. They do cease to work as flyouts, but instead line up nicely one under the other. Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time - IE weirdness
In the test site I put up the other day for scrutiny http:/// www.fotografics.it/fife/ I have discovered a funny one with IE 6 If you go to organization ---commissions--- any commission except show you should see an image beside the list of names. The image is attached as a background to the div holding the names (try with FF) on IE 6 they are not showing up. Is there some hack I should know about, but don't? Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time
OK, you convinced me. Your reason for doing so is far more valid than my lame reasoning with the Danone and Armani examples. Thanks. On Tue, March 20, 2007 11:56 am, Bob Schwartz wrote: You should also perhaps markup your logo H1 content as a change from the declared natural language of the page (English). Thanks for you tips Stuart: 1. How do I do that? 2.I'm curious as to why you think it is necessary - it is the name of the association - I doubt if Danone or Armani marks their names up as French or Italian on their English sites. I did say perhaps. 1. You can use the lang attribute, div id=logoh1 lang=fr 2. The idea is that speech synthesizers will pronouce it correctly and braille generators will be able to substitute the appropriate control codes. I was thinking more in terms of Web standards, rather than the standards of other Websites (Danone - 260 coding errors errors on home page; Armani - Flash!) Stuart *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time
The test site at http://www.fotografics.it/fife/ has been refurbished to make it more standards compliant, before moving on to the accessibility layer I would appreciate it if you guys could check it out for any errors or wrong practices Thanks, bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] style sheets - best practices
What is the current best practice for style sheets - imported or linked - and why? Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] style sheets - best practices
Makes sense and I already knew that. The reason behind my post has to do with me noticing a trend towards importing style sheets and I was curious if this was the current best practice and if so, why. Bob Using the @import stylesheet rule is great if you only want your stylesheet rules to be picked up by most modern browsers. Netscape 4 and below and IE 4 and below do not support the @import rule. This allows you to target stylesheets to specific browser versions. Does that make sense? On 3/15/07, Bob Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What is the current best practice for style sheets - imported or linked - and why? Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] style sheets - best practices
Rob, I've been modularizing like this for years: link href=../../as/cs/com.css rel=stylesheet type=text/css media=screen link href=../../as/cs/p7pmv0.css rel=stylesheet type=text/css media=screen link href=../../as/cs/thickbox.css rel=stylesheet type=text/ css media=screen Am I doing something wrong? Is there an advantage to importing over linking, or a limit to the links (ie. should only one be linked, the rest imported and if so, why? Bob I believe what you may have seen is the practice of having link type=text/css rel=stylesheet href= media= screen in the page body for xhtml validation purposes having a raft of @import statements in the linked CSS file The principle being to modularise your CSS, having multiple separate CSS files I don't think the real concern is for long since dead browsers such as IE4 and NN4 -- Regards - Rob Raising web standards : http://ele.vation.co.uk On 15/03/07, Bob Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Makes sense and I already knew that. The reason behind my post has to do with me noticing a trend towards importing style sheets and I was curious if this was the current best practice and if so, why. Bob Using the @import stylesheet rule is great if you only want your stylesheet rules to be picked up by most modern browsers. Netscape 4 and below and IE 4 and below do not support the @import rule. This allows you to target stylesheets to specific browser versions. Does that make sense? On 3/15/07, Bob Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What is the current best practice for style sheets - imported or linked - and why? Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] style sheets - best practices
Thanks Dave In the section you indicated they have the following: With two or more link tags, the browser presents the user with a list of all the linked style sheets. The user can then select one of the sheets, which is used to format the document. The other linked style sheets are ignored. I've never seen this happen with any browser I've ever used. Is the information on this site by any chance out-of-date by a lot? There's a good explaination here: http://www.unix.org.ua/orelly/web/html/ch09_01.html (Scroll down to 'Linked Versus Imported Style Sheets') Dave. From: Bob Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] style sheets - best practices Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 11:57:51 +0100 What is the current best practice for style sheets - imported or linked - and why? Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** _ Match.com - Click Here To Find Singles In Your Area Today! http:// msnuk.match.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] doing things right
Chris, Also, from you(?) (has been fixed), but there was a reference from someone else as to the need for all the nbsp's that populate the empty cells. Bob Schwartz wrote: That's what I thought, but a few days ago someone made a snide remark about them on a test page I had put up, so I just thought I'd double check. Was it because css was being used to indicate a cell was selected when there was no data there (nbsp)? I'm glad you brought this up because I've just realized I have done the same thing with a calendar showing dates available. I've used css to indicate availability when the actual data tells me nothing. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] unobtrusive js, document.submit IE
I thinks this would help, http://www.friendsofed.com/download.html?isbn=1590595335 DOM Scripting he have somes examples it's allowed to download, in chapter 11 on contact.html see the example. And if u buy the book u will learn some good stuff . If you (or anyone else reading this) are in or near the novice class of javascripting, the above listed book, while a very good book, won't get you there. PPK on Javascript by Peter-Paul Koch is more novice friendly. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] doing things right
So, according the the site Georg posted, the world's most used browser does not support the empty-cells property. In light of that bit of news, would tdnbsp;/td still be considered the wrong answer? Shelley Purvis wrote: No, they should be marked up as: tdnbsp;/td Bzzzt - wrong answer -- the nbsp; is meaningless. Reasoning: if you don't put a holder into the cell and you select a border (or not) the cell border won't show on this cell as without content the cell collapses. Uh, that's why CSS provides the empty-cells property: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/tables.html#propdef-empty-cells *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] asp and accessibility
At the risk of seeming an idiot: As I go through a site overhaul, I pop my questions here as they come up so... Do database driven, dynamically created asp pages pass muster for accessibility? I suppose if I could see the devices handicapped people use to surf, I would better understand what's going on (and be able to answer my own questions), but I don't know anyone who uses anything other than a browser or cell phone. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] doing things right
Someone made a comment the other day about my empty table cells which are marked as such; tdnbsp;/td Should they be only: td/td *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] asp and accessibility
Mike, Thanks for the information. Yes, I have an idea, but never having seen any of the devices people talk about here, I often have doubts about what I think I have understood. Bob Schwartz wrote: Do database driven, dynamically created asp pages pass muster for accessibility? What makes a site accessible? Being on this list, you surely have some idea of the answer. But to help, some of the key things are: - it has semantic, well-structured HTML - in particular in uses headings well, it marks up forms and data- tables with appropriate accessibility features and it validates (or mostly validates) - it provides options for users to jump to parts of a page eg navigation, content(ie, they don't have to tab through endless links) Note that nowhere in there does it mention asp. Or in fact any server-side programming/scripting language. In terms of accessibility, what matters is what's outputted to the browser (user agent), not what language the backend is written and developed in. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] doing things right
That's what I thought, but a few days ago someone made a snide remark about them on a test page I had put up, so I just thought I'd double check. No, they should be marked up as: tdnbsp;/td Reasoning: if you don't put a holder into the cell and you select a border (or not) the cell border won't show on this cell as without content the cell collapses. Hense the nbsp; is the cell packer that will hold this empty cell open. S [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/03/2007 9:15:37 a.m. Someone made a comment the other day about my empty table cells which are marked as such; tdnbsp;/td Should they be only: td/td *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] PopUp windows
David, What are the pros and cons of one over the other? Hi Bob, You may want to look at solutions like thickbox (http://jquery.com/ demo/thickbox/) which offers a very degradable way to open faux popups, or floating divs, and also adds some nice animation in there too. This way, if the browser has javascript support (and it's enabled) then what the user gets is quite a fancy alternative to standard to popups (and it'll definately keep the client happy) and it will degrade nicely to simply open a new site (in the same window if you choose) if the JS support isnt there. There's also greybox (http://orangoo.com/labs/GreyBox/) which does a similar thing without the need for the jquery library. I've spent a good couple of weeks developing a solution on the prototype library that combines thickbox with lightbox (http:// www.huddletogether.com/projects/lightbox2/) but its not yet ready for release as I havent fully stress tested it. Cheers, David. Bob Schwartz wrote: Problem: client wants (insists on having) popup windows. Question: can they be made OK according to all canons of WSG? (ie served in a different/alternative manner for people, devices, etc. - leave aside the js argument, as that I have solved). *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] web accessibility-some thoughts
First a disclaimer: This post does not reflect my personal views on web accessibility or handicapped persons, it is merely a collection of academic thoughts triggered by various posts of the past few days. How and why did the web get singled out from among all of the other publishing mediums to be by law accessible? Why aren't book, magazine, and newspaper publishers required to produce an audio or braille version of everything they publish? Why aren't TV broadcasters and movie production companies required to sub-title all of their broadcasts or films, or have an off screen reader describing the scenes? Isn't saying one can't (shouldn't) use, for example, a popup window on a web site because screen readers have trouble with them, like telling Hollywood they can't (shouldn't) use certain special effects because the off screen reader would have trouble explaining them to a blind person? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] PopUp windows
Problem: client wants (insists on having) popup windows. Question: can they be made OK according to all canons of WSG? (ie served in a different/alternative manner for people, devices, etc. - leave aside the js argument, as that I have solved). *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] PopUp windows
The target is not used, it is popup via js or regular window without. Canons! The religion of W3C! All praise to the W3C Only the transitional doctype is available for new window targets, not the strict compliance with W3C Papal enclyclicals. Tim On 07/03/2007, at 9:05 PM, Bob Schwartz wrote: Problem: client wants (insists on having) popup windows. Question: can they be made OK according to all canons of WSG? (ie served in a different/alternative manner for people, devices, etc. - leave aside the js argument, as that I have solved). *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** The Editor Heretic Press http://www.hereticpress.com Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] PopUp windows
Al, Got an example somewhere? I Googled around but only found references, not a working iframe. From: Bob Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Example would be a page with a sort of table of contents which lists minutes of the past five years board meeting, the user clicks on one, it pops up they read it, print it or whatever, then go to the next. One approach would be to use script to generate an iframe object to carry the minutes. The links would be actual links that are intercepted by the script (to open the target in the iframe) but returned false, so that if script is disabled, you would default to a straight link to each minutes page. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] PopUp windows
David, Cool. Thanks for the tip. I'll do a demo for the client today, I'm sure he'll be blown away. Bob Hi Bob, You may want to look at solutions like thickbox (http://jquery.com/ demo/thickbox/) which offers a very degradable way to open faux popups, or floating divs, and also adds some nice animation in there too. This way, if the browser has javascript support (and it's enabled) then what the user gets is quite a fancy alternative to standard to popups (and it'll definately keep the client happy) and it will degrade nicely to simply open a new site (in the same window if you choose) if the JS support isnt there. There's also greybox (http://orangoo.com/labs/GreyBox/) which does a similar thing without the need for the jquery library. I've spent a good couple of weeks developing a solution on the prototype library that combines thickbox with lightbox (http:// www.huddletogether.com/projects/lightbox2/) but its not yet ready for release as I havent fully stress tested it. Cheers, David. Bob Schwartz wrote: Problem: client wants (insists on having) popup windows. Question: can they be made OK according to all canons of WSG? (ie served in a different/alternative manner for people, devices, etc. - leave aside the js argument, as that I have solved). *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] noscript
Ian, The only think I would add is a check to make sure that a browser understands the methods you are using. Avoiding an error caused because a browser doesn't understand var container = document.getElementById(copy) is almost as important as making sure that the site works without JavaScript enabled in the first place. like this in the load function? if (!document.getElementsById) return false; Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] tabular data
I'm reworking a site to get it up to web standards. Tables should be used only to contain tabular data Would current accepted practices be: If it can be done without a table that should be first choice. or Is there a definition of what is considered tabular data (or is it in the eyes of the beholder)? Would this be acceptable for using a table: http://www.fifeweb.org/wp/org/org_jdg_sdt_lst.html *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] noscript
Thanks, I'll update my code.
Getting there and learning in the process.
Bob Schwartz wrote:
like this in the load function?
if (!document.getElementsById) return false;
Bob
Yes, just like that. I think my favourite method (as used by PPK at
http://www.quirksmode.org/) is to use the following:
var W3CDOM = (document.createElement
document.getElementsByTagName);
if (!W3CDOM) return;
This can be used either inside a function as it is, split so that
multiple functions can call it:
var W3CDOM = (document.createElement
document.getElementsByTagName);
function doSomething() {
if (!W3CDOM) return;
}
or as part of an onload event:
var W3CDOM = (document.createElement
document.getElementsByTagName);
window.onload = function () {
if (!W3CDOM) return;
doSomething();
}
function doSomething() {
}
The same principle can be used to check for more specific things, as
with your example:
if (!document.getElementById) return;
which will stop a script if getElementById (note the singular of
Element) is not supported.
Ian.
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Re: [WSG] tabular data
Chris, Georg, Thanks for the information. Regarding the table used to construct the page and the cent table not being well constructed, etc.: those are reasons why I am redoing the site. My only concern here was to have an example of what you guys consider a candidate for tabular data to use for making decisions in the future as to what can be put in a table. Bob Bob Schwartz wrote: Is there a definition of what is considered tabular data (or is it in the eyes of the beholder)? Would this be acceptable for using a table: http://www.fifeweb.org/wp/org/org_jdg_sdt_lst.html This looks like a candidate for a table but my concern would be that the table is not well constructed. There is no thead, tbody, summary, scope... and where the judges are highlighted with an image there is no data. Rather, a class is used to style the cell. Have you checked this against the spec for html tables on the W3C site? Kind Regards -- Chris Price *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] noscript
What are currently accepted practices for using noscript for serving content to those with js turned off? In particular I'm talking about eye candy things on a web page that do not take away from the content if the non js visitor is served a static equivalent as opposed to a you need js to see this or whatever. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] noscript
Nick, Ian,
Like this:
function copy() {
var container = document.getElementById(copy)
var oldtext = document.getElementById(copy1)
var text = (\251 + (new Date()).getFullYear() + F\351d
\351ration Internationale F\351line);
var p = document.createElement(p);
container.replaceChild(p, oldtext);
p.appendChild(document.createTextNode(text));
document.getElementById(copy).appendChild(p);
}
html
div id=copyp id=copy1copy; 2007 Fédération Internationale
Féline/p/div
On 5 Mar 2007, at 13:52:35, Bob Schwartz wrote:
What are currently accepted practices for using noscript for
serving content to those with js turned off?
In particular I'm talking about eye candy things on a web page
that do not take away from the content if the non js visitor is
served a static equivalent as opposed to a you need js to see
this or whatever.
The noscript element is generally frowned upon nowadays, as being
against the spirit of using JS for progressive enhancement.
Basically, if the content should be there for non-JS enabled
viewers (which includes search engines), then there is no need to
place it in a noscript element. If it should not be seen by those
with JS enabled, then JS should be used to remove it, or replace it.
Regards,
Nick.
--
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/
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Re: [WSG] unobtrusive js help
Paul, I agree with you and as I am trying to learn this stuff I'm going one step at a time in the hopes that I can one day drop the crutches I needed an example of how to put a js string in a text string. The next step will be to try and figure out how (I have some examples that I am playing with) to replace existing text with that generated by the js. The idea being: hard coded in the page would be © 2003 - 2007 Myplace, (the 2003 being the year the site went live) then on Jan. 1st 2008 the js would replace the 2007 with 2008, but if js is turned off it would still say 2007 until such time as the hard coding can be changed. Is there a server side way of doing it without turning the whole site into PHP or ASP? Thanks, Bob Bob, I'm glad you're getting help with your javascript problem. However: Unobtrusive javascript doesn't just mean separation of the script from the markup, it is also the use of javascript that doesn't break the page when scripting is disabled. http://onlinetools.org/articles/unobtrusivejavascript/chapter1.html For example, a hyperlink that reloads the page with new content can be morphed by javascript to display the new content immediately without returning to the server. Regardless of whether javascript is enabled, the new content shows up. Unobtrusive javascript enhances the page but the page doesn't DEPEND on javascript. Your use of javascript to display a copyright notice means that the copyright won't be displayed when javascript isn't running. This isn't unobtrusive, it's obtrusive. It's like printing a book with a copyright notice that shows up only in artificial light but is invisible in daylight. I can't imagine you're protecting your client's intellectual property rights by generating the copyright notice in such a fragile way. Please generate the notice server- side -- or hard-code it into the html -- so it shows up for everyone viewing the content. Regards, Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] unobtrusive js help
Paul, Unobtrusive javascript doesn't just mean separation of the script from the markup, it is also the use of javascript that doesn't break the page when scripting is disabled. http://onlinetools.org/articles/unobtrusivejavascript/chapter1.html Further thoughts on this statement: Leaving aside the copyright bit, I'm not so sure it is necessary to cater 100% to those without js as long as they are not being denied the primary content. An example: I am working on a script that generates a random quote in the right column of a page. If js is turned off nothing will show. However, that quote is not essential to the content of the site, it is just a bit of eye candy that the user with js turned off will not see and I don't see any reason to jump through hoops to try and give the non-js person something to see in its place. I am, however, trying to get away from js that does affect the primary content if turned off. It's like printing a book with a copyright notice that shows up only in artificial light but is invisible in daylight. To use your book example: desiging a site is like laying out a book according to a certian look and feel if published as designed, but having to take into consideration the fact that the possibility exists that it will be published with different fonts-at different sizes, no images, different page sizes, browser bugs etc., etc., etc. At some point we either draw some lines (often due to budget, client requests) or just publish plain text web pages. I have recently started trying to create the perfect template to use as a starting point for future web sites. I have been reading all the various arguments regarding font sizes, html vs xhtml served as text/html, etc., etc. only to discover that many of the gurus are now reversing themselves on what is right or ignoring some very strong and convincing arguments (backed up by examples) as to why their method is not the method to follow. It is a frustrating experience and in the end I'll probably just have to draw my own conclusions, as well as, lines. Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] unobtrusive js help
Michael, Thank you for the information. If we were in a perfect world it just might be reasonable to try and be as legal as possible, but reality is that the copyright notice is almost useless in that it only gives a (false) sense of protection, to actualy be protected is another matter. As a professional photographer I have had occasion to pursue copyright violations. Yes, the law is on my side, but due to the cost of lawyers, the violaters being in a different country, difficulty collecting even if I win the case, etc. it's rarely worth pursuing. So, in good faith, I put the copyright on clients sites, but as the saying goes it is as useful as tits on a bull. On 3/2/07, Paul Novitski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please generate the notice server-side -- or hard-code it into the html -- so it shows up for everyone viewing the content. In addition to Paul's technically valid note (with which I, a noscript user, wholeheartedly agree), there's also a legal one. The year in a copyright notice should be the year of last revision. Coding it in with JavaScript will keep it up to date when it may not be, which would be a false copyright claim. Not so good. Make it the year of last modification of the page - either the data presented by a server-side script, or hard-coded when the page is changed. Regards, Michael *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] unobtrusive js help
Michael, Another point. All the sites I do have something in them updated at least once a year, so the copyright (current year) would reflect the year of last revision. On 3/2/07, Paul Novitski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please generate the notice server-side -- or hard-code it into the html -- so it shows up for everyone viewing the content. In addition to Paul's technically valid note (with which I, a noscript user, wholeheartedly agree), there's also a legal one. The year in a copyright notice should be the year of last revision. Coding it in with JavaScript will keep it up to date when it may not be, which would be a false copyright claim. Not so good. Make it the year of last modification of the page - either the data presented by a server-side script, or hard-coded when the page is changed. Regards, Michael *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] unobtrusive js help
I am in the process of converting my javascript library to nonobtrusive js. I bought a few books and with them, managed to convert most, but I still have a few that defy my very limited skills. Where could I go for help in converting these? Thanks. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] unobtrusive js help
Thanks Mordechai,
I'll start with the easy one first:
var d=new Date();yr=d.getFullYear();if (yr!=2003)document.write
(copy; +yr); myplace
which gives me: © 2007 myplace
Here's my pathetic attempt:
window.onload = function() {
var para = document.createElement(p);
var txt1 = document.createTextNode(copy; );
var year = new Date().getFullYear();
var now = year;
var txt2 = document.createTextNode()
var txt3 = document.createTextNode( FIFe);
para.appendChild(txt1);
para.appendChild(txt2);
para.appendChild(txt3);
var testdiv = document.getElementById(testdiv);
testdiv.appendChild(para);
}
and think I know where it is wrong
I need to get it to write the year (ex-document +yr) in the () of the
txt2 node, but I don't know how to do it.
I also don't think the if (yr!=2003) from the old js is necessary,
but I may be wrong
Bob Schwartz wrote:
I am in the process of converting my javascript library to
nonobtrusive js.
Where could I go for help in converting these?
Here, for one place. Can you be more specific about the problems?
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Re: [WSG] unobtrusive js help
Have one of them, DOM Scripting, which got me to where I am, I'll check out the other two. Thanks You will find these books very helpful http://www.amazon.co.uk/DOM-Scripting-Design-JavaScript-Document/dp/ 1590595335/ref=pd_ka_1/202-6135156-2275021? ie=UTF8s=booksqid=1172759335sr=8-1 http://www.amazon.co.uk/JavaScript-Anthology-Essential-Tricks-Hacks/ dp/0975240269/ref=pd_ka_1/202-6135156-2275021? ie=UTF8s=booksqid=1172759353sr=8-1 http://www.amazon.co.uk/JavaScript-Definitive-Guide-David-Flanagan/ dp/0596101996/ref=pd_ka_1/202-6135156-2275021? ie=UTF8s=booksqid=1172759366sr=8-1 Darren On 01/03/07, Mordechai Peller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bob Schwartz wrote: I am in the process of converting my javascript library to nonobtrusive js. Where could I go for help in converting these? Here, for one place. Can you be more specific about the problems? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] unobtrusive js help
Nick,
Thanks. Now that I see how you have done it, I may be able to guess
my way through the others I have to do.
Is there a ( missing in the second line of your version?
On 1 Mar 2007, at 14:44:59, Bob Schwartz wrote:
var d=new Date();yr=d.getFullYear();if (yr!=2003)document.write
(copy; +yr); myplace
which gives me: © 2007 myplace
Here's my pathetic attempt:
window.onload = function() {
var para = document.createElement(p);
var txt1 = document.createTextNode(copy; );
var year = new Date().getFullYear();
var now = year;
var txt2 = document.createTextNode()
var txt3 = document.createTextNode( FIFe);
para.appendChild(txt1);
para.appendChild(txt2);
para.appendChild(txt3);
var testdiv = document.getElementById(testdiv);
testdiv.appendChild(para);
}
Not sure how FIFe fits into all this, but...
window.onload = function() {
var year = new Date().getFullYear();
var text = © + year + myplace);
var p = document.createElement(p);
p.appendChild(document.createTextNode(text));
document.getElementById(testdiv).appendChild(p);
}
should do what the original code does. If somebody gets a time
machine up and running and goes back to 2003, well, they'll see the
version of the site from back then anyway, so that's OK :-)
HTH,
Nick.
--
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/
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Re: [WSG] unobtrusive js help
Rolf , Thanks for the info. On Mar 1, 2007, at 6:53 AM, Bob Schwartz wrote: On 01/03/07, Mordechai Peller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bob Schwartz wrote: I am in the process of converting my javascript library to nonobtrusive js. Where could I go for help in converting these? Here, for one place. Can you be more specific about the problems? You might want to head over to the jQuery community - it's a very helpful community with a lot of unobtrusive js'ers About jQuery: http://www.jquery.com jQuery Discussion: http://www.nabble.com/JQuery-f15494.html Rolf *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS Rollover Flicker
I would do a preload images on the body tag for the over state images since as it is they seem to load for the first time when you do a mouse over. bob Hi everyone, happy after holiday, I have a CSS rollover flickering problem that not just occurs in IE but all browsers. The problem only happens when I have different images for link and hover, and a background image for the #menu. The problem has been there for a long time with other sites, due to the busy schedules and deadlines I decided to ignore it because, after all, the menus are working - sites were up for months and nobody complaints. Nonetheless, I know how annoying it is. Was working on a new site using the same menu code, the annoyances suddenly becomes so big that I can't stand it anymore. I suspect it's something to do with caches yet I don't seem able to find what causes the problem. Symptoms are random: empty gap, hover image disappears or white space occurs, when either of these happens, I move the cursor to the next menu item, come back again and it gets back to normal state. Can you be so kind look at my code? http://gb.lotusseeds.com/menutest.html http://gb.lotusseeds.com/menu_test.css THANK YOU tee ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Best Web Standards thing I learnt in 2005.
Christopher, + getting into microformats I guess I missed something along the way. Where can I find out more about this? Bob ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS Driven?
Terrence. Plus I don't want to get into the quirks of clients in this thread, I'd like to concentrate on finding a solution to a real problem that is as reliable (browser-wise) and as easy to implement as it is with a table, Sure... clients who needs them? But see the real problem is clients making design decisions that may not be appropriate for the shape of the market today (and tomorrow). And given that they aren't designers... how can they make effective design decisions, if you don't tell them what works best? In other words, Terrance, the goal is a design as described above and the solution can't be change the design, but has to be: attain the design without a table. My apologies, I never realised the visual design was non-negotiable. The point of both of these statements was to try and keep the thread on topic i.e; a solution to a specific, clearly defined problem in which the only choice is to realize it as stated, preferrably without a table. It obviously didn't work. I had hoped those of you making assumptions about the side bits, would leave aside your assumptions and take up the challenge on the actual problem. I didn't want to write War and Peace to explain that I have indeed tried to sway the client, have used intelligent arguments, etc., etc. ad nauseum to keep this thread from getting lost in those arguments, but maybe I should have. An example of the assumptions: you (or someone) said a design of this 1998 type should never have been presented to the client. Where in anything I said did I say I presented the design? Maybe the client came to me with his design and for the purpose of my original question, what does it really matter? how can they make effective design decisions, if you don't tell them what works best? Why do you assume I didn't? Its this type of flawed assumptions that has caused this thread to wander all over the landscape without arriving at a solution to the problem at hand. Plus I don't want to get into the quirks of clients in this thread, Sure... clients who needs them? A clear statement of my intent and your snide comment which shows you didn't get it. Do you think you are being helpful? Believe me, you're not. bob ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS Driven?
Christian, Do these table layouts go in your portfolio? Since you asked. I have my very first site in my portfolio and it is a nested table/spacer gif monster. But except for you guys, I doubt if anyone has ever done a view source on the site. Do these clients recommend you to others as one of those designers who will still do those 1998 designs we like so much? No, they recommend me because I did a site they liked. Outside this list, I doubt if anyone thinks in terms of 1998 sites. I guess the big question is, how do these designs affect your image as a standards based designer? The big answer is: they don't. We all started somewhere. However, if it will help you sleep better: at the first re-do of the site, the nested tables and spacer gifs will go. My thinking is that if I ever had to do one of these sites, I would not put it in my portfolio. I would have made it clear to the client that I was doing it against my own good judgement and I would never want someone to think it was something I would do again. Maybe if I hang around you long enough, one day, I too will become arrogant, but I doubt it. bob ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS Driven?
Terrence, Obviously you haven't found this thread helpful, but others have. Oddly enough I have, though the (seems to be) answer came in off list. If after doing some testing, the solution does indeed work as I need it to, I will post it for those who remember what the original question was. I'm really not sure what you are looking for Bob, but clearly, we are two different people. Probably not, just the pitfalls of communicating by e-mail. If we were sitting at an outdoor cafe sipping a good coffee, watching pretty girls go by and having this discussion, it would have an all- together different flavor. Bob ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS Driven?
No can do Bob. I showed you the solution. End of story: solution, choices made, move on :) Yes Sir. Thank you Sir. I will just fold my table and slink away. It's been a honor being in your illustrious presence. I will return when I feel more worthy . bob ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS Driven?
Stuart,
Thanks for the example, but while it displays according to my
example, it's not what I'm looking for. (I guess my example assumed
too much intuition as to what I was trying to obtain).
Here's where your example fails (and perhaps better illustrates the
problem I'm trying to resolve).
If I make each column a different color, they show up as three
different heights.
Try to imagine col 1 is red and has a left menu, col 2 is white and
is the main content area and col 3 is blue and a right menu (or
something) and the body is green.
I need to be able to put different amounts of content from page to
page in the main text column and have all three be the same height as
the center one from page to page without going to 100% height. (Fixed
width, centered box that grows in height according to its content).
A table will do this.
Terrance Wood suggested this:
Here's an easy solution: don't create designs that look like
they're from
1998 (e.g the 2-col cnet yellow stripe and it's ilk)... there are
so many
more creative and useful possiblities once you get past that design
pattern.
For the record: I am past 1998 in my designs, but as I mentioned
earlier, I don't do designs from 1998 because I want to, I have some
clients who want that look.
Should I tell them to go somewhere else?
Plus I don't want to get into the quirks of clients in this thread,
I'd like to concentrate on finding a solution to a real problem that
is as reliable (browser-wise) and as easy to implement as it is with
a table,
In other words, Terrance, the goal is a design as described above and
the solution can't be change the design, but has to be: attain the
design without a table. If it can't be done, I'd like to see a humble
admission from the non-table people that maybe there is an instance
in the real world where a table is not only OK, but probably THE
solution so I can fell less unpure:-} about using a table to solve
my problem.
Bob
Bob Schwartz wrote:
I had hoped for some real solutions when I posted my original
two cents, but none came. I can only conclude there are none, yet.
I did think more than Rimantas would pop-up with a quick answer for
your question, Bob:
Which browser can correctly render the following:
3 columns, no height defined and a background color different
from that of the body
in column 1 goes a 1000px high image
in column 2 goes a 750px high image
in column 3 goes a 500px high image
the end result should be that all three columns are the same height
in other words:
below the image in column 1, no background color shows
below the image in column 2, 250px of background color shows
below the image in column 3, 500px of background color shows
My response (just for the record!) has a problem displaying the
background colour on Netscape 4.78 and Netscape 6.2 (as far as I
can tell via Browsercam), but otherwise rendering is pretty similar:
HTML:
div id=container
div class=column
img src=notableimg.jpg height=1000 width=100 alt= /
/div
div class=column
img src=notableimg.jpg height=750 width=100 alt= /
/div
div class=column
img src=notableimg.jpg height=500 width=100 alt= /
/div
/div
CSS:
* { margin:0; padding:0; }
body { background-color:#ff0; }
#container { width:90%; background-color:#fff; float:left; margin-
left:5%; _margin-left:2.5%; }
.column { float:left; width:33%; text-align:center; }
.column img { display:block; margin:0 auto; }
Have a look at http://www.stuarthomfray.co.uk/3col/
Unfortunately, due to the behaviour of our good buddy PC IE, an
extra hack is called for (the '_margin-left: 2.5%;')
I thought someone else might as well answer your request! ;)
cheers,
Stuart
--
http://www.stuarthomfray.co.uk/
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Re: [WSG] CSS Driven?
Rimantas, Seems like you are not looking for solution, but for simple encouragament to stick with tables. Ok, if the only solution you are going to accept is table, Is there anything to gain in these discussions by you always being so polemic If you have nothing except snide remarks to contribute, make way for those who may want to lend a constructive hand. Why does it seem I'm looking for encouragement, when I've stated 100 times I'm looking for a solution? Just because I've stated that if a solution (P7 javascript not withstanding) does not exist that does not involve a table, you non- table people should at least admit it. In reality I have evidently hit upon a problem with pure CSS. The fact that it may not be a problem for those who do not have clients asking for a certian site design is irrelavent. I do and am seeking a way to satisfy them and do pure (in the spirit of this group) CSS at the same time. Regarding the sites you listed, I went there and didn't see any that fit the criteria I have laid out. Bob ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Browser Resolutions
I once read on the A List Apart web site that a 550px wide text box is about the limit of comfortable reading, so I use that as my base rule for site design. In the end it works out to 760px wide total content surrounded by pretty colors in the margins. Stephen Stagg wrote: Slightly off-list but important all the same. I traditionally design sites to look good at 800x600 and best at 1024x768. Now, tho, it seems as if users visiting with resolutions of 800x600 are around the 1% margin... It is the viewport size that matters, the screen resolution is essentially irrelevant. It is an invalid assumption that everyone surfs with a maximised browser window; or even if it is, that it takes up all the space. The browser may also have a sidebar or anything else which can take up any amount of space. Personally, my screen resolution is 1280x1024, but my browser window is usually around 900x900 - I do not like a browser taking up my whole screen. In fact, that is even narrower than a maximised browser on 1024x768. dd a sidebar to that, which would be roughly 200px wide when open, that leaves less than 700px width for the web site to play with, which is almost half the width of my screen resolution. So please understand that any screen resolution statistics you find will be nothing short of completely useless. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Browser Resolutions
Can't give you the stats but the 550px max width for text rule-of- thumb I use sort of dictates image sizes. (about 250px - 300px wide max). I've also found with clients that I often have to design for thier browser/monitor no matter my well-founded arguments to the contrary:-} I thought I made my point in the original post. While I agree that sites should work at any resolution, and some (many possibly) people don't browse with browser maximised. What I can't do is supply all the images for a site at 10x10 pixels in case someone using a PDA wants to view the site. What I CAN do is try to make the site presentable at any resolution and optimize the images etc. for certain resolutions. In order to satisfy the majority in this case, I would like to have the figures as a guide. It is also useful to tell clients that What you want won't work becuase only x % of people have the same resolution as you Rather than make up the figures, it is better to have hard data. I AM AWARE of the limitations of using screen-resolution data. But it doesn't completely invalidate the collection of such data. Stephen Lachlan Hunt wrote: Stephen Stagg wrote: Slightly off-list but important all the same. I traditionally design sites to look good at 800x600 and best at 1024x768. Now, tho, it seems as if users visiting with resolutions of 800x600 are around the 1% margin... It is the viewport size that matters, the screen resolution is essentially irrelevant. It is an invalid assumption that everyone surfs with a maximised browser window; or even if it is, that it takes up all the space. The browser may also have a sidebar or anything else which can take up any amount of space. Personally, my screen resolution is 1280x1024, but my browser window is usually around 900x900 - I do not like a browser taking up my whole screen. In fact, that is even narrower than a maximised browser on 1024x768. dd a sidebar to that, which would be roughly 200px wide when open, that leaves less than 700px width for the web site to play with, which is almost half the width of my screen resolution. So please understand that any screen resolution statistics you find will be nothing short of completely useless. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS Driven?
Al, Since, my whole point has been that using a simple layout table, as opposed to a nested monstrosity, can sometimes be a good thing I'm glad you are championing my original cause, which somehow got way off course in the thread. Not only can a simple table be a good thing, it is still the only way to get cross-browser (not just Opera or whatever) equal height columns (expanding to fit the content of the longest one) without resorting (as you pointed out) to javascript. Until such time as this can be done as easily (and reliably) without tables as it is with, I'm going to stick to my one table when needed. I had hoped for some real solutions when I posted my original two cents, but none came. I can only conclude there are none, yet. Bob ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS Driven?
Christian, On 12/12/05, Bob Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not trying to center, the issue is height and more correctly height which expands to fit content of nested divs and probably even more correctly a box with columns in it which expands all columns to be equal in height to the one with the most content. Yes, you have missed something: equal height columns with pure CSS: http://positioniseverything.net/articles/onetruelayout/equalheight there are more links I could give you to older methods, but this is the *holy grail* of CSS columns. Anyone who hasn't seen this should. Thanks for the info, but reading the implementation of the technique reveals it is rife with hacks, which so far I've managed to avoid in the sites I've designed. Given a choice of one table or hacks to do what one table already does, I'll stick with the one table. If the current specs still have height issues for divs (which it seems they do), how can we be chastised for using a table to accomplish what can't be accomplished without resorting to javascript or hacks - it seems the lesser of the evils. As for more simply, just getting a container to contain floats: http://www.complexspiral.com/publications/containing-floats/ I'm not having problems with floats. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS Driven?
There is one browser with issues, not the specs. Which browser can correctly render the following: 3 columns, no height defined and a background color different from that of the body in column 1 goes a 1000px high image in column 2 goes a 750px high image in column 3 goes a 500px high image the end result should be that all three columns are the same height in other words: below the image in column 1, no background color shows below the image in column 2, 250px of background color shows below the image in column 3, 500px of background color shows Bob ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS Driven?
I'd rather have that single, easy to spot hack, which adds very little overhead, than multiple background images and extra divs coupled with hyroglyphics in my css file. Amen ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS Driven?
On 12/13/05, Bob Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is one browser with issues, not the specs. Which browser can correctly render the following: 3 columns, no height defined and a background color different from that of the body in column 1 goes a 1000px high image in column 2 goes a 750px high image in column 3 goes a 500px high image the end result should be that all three columns are the same height in other words: below the image in column 1, no background color shows below the image in column 2, 250px of background color shows below the image in column 3, 500px of background color shows Please send us all an example of a site where this was necessary. As usual designers want bells and whistles without any necessity. When I find a reason to actually use equal height columns, I'll let you all know. Bells and whistles without any neccessity What I have described is how sites were done for years. As for necessity, some clients just happen to like it this way. Do you try and please your clients when you do a site or what? Bob ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS Driven?
On 13 Dec, 2005, at 1:51 PM, Rimantas Liubertas wrote: I'd rather have that single, easy to spot hack, which adds very little overhead, than multiple background images and extra divs coupled with hyroglyphics in my css file. Amen So, how are you going to style your single table? Either with CSS with all multiple background imageas and extra divs, or with even more sliced pieces of images peppered accross that simple table? What? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS Driven?
Try it in IE Mac, you're in for a surprise. 2005/12/13, Bob Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED]: There is one browser with issues, not the specs. Which browser can correctly render the following: ... http://rimantas.com/bits/notable.html Opera: since version 4. Gecko browsers: works with the oldest I have got: Mozilla Seamonkey 0.6 (2000-12-05) build. Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS Driven?
But CSS is the de-facto preferred way of defining layout of (X)HTML documents, and using tables for layout is a case of ignoring a particular item in the HTML spec. Maybe I'm behind in my CSS religious training, but... I've found the need to use one table as a base layout because I still cannot get a div to expand in height (no height defined) to incompass its nested content as a table cell does. This is something I need to have happen once-and-awhile. Have I missed some change to CSS or are there still height issues with divs? Bob ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
