An interesting "refund" .. Lenovo yet again!!!
The biggest Czech Linux portal, AbcLinuxu.cz, reimbursed a user for a
MS Windows Vista Business OEM license in Lenovo ČR's stead. The paid
amount is the same the manufacturer offered for returning the license
in accordance with the EULA of th
2008/5/20 Raj Mathur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> A licence is not a contract.
>
But proprietory software want it to be a contract :-( since they want
to put more restrictions that copyright entitle them for.
> A licence is a unilateral grant of privileges by the author of the
> software (MS in this ca
On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 12:18 AM, Raj Mathur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Monday 19 May 2008, Sudev Barar wrote:
>> [snip]
>> I did not buy a product from M$ nor I paid for it (the manufacturer
>> may have done) so there is no contract between me and M$?
>> [more snip]
>
> Point of order here:
>
On Monday 19 May 2008, Sudev Barar wrote:
> [snip]
> I did not buy a product from M$ nor I paid for it (the manufacturer
> may have done) so there is no contract between me and M$?
> [more snip]
Point of order here:
A licence is not a contract.
A licence is a unilateral grant of privileges by th
On 19-May-08, at 12:41 AM, Naresh Narang wrote:
> --- Manish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I just hope Indian government and law is not part of
>> this ecosystem.
>> And I also hope the law has enough teeth to ensure
>> that consumers are
>> protected against such unfair practices.
>>
>
> This is
2008/5/19 Sandip Bhattacharya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Just thinking. If I am the manufacturer, would I care if you accept or do not
> accept
> the EULA? As long as you don't violate the terms of the EULA (no matter that
> you
> did not accept it).
>
Interesting
I did not buy a product from
On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 4:46 PM, Sandip Bhattacharya wrote:
[snip]
>>Does that sound reasonable? :)
>
> Just thinking. If I am the manufacturer, would I
> care if you accept or do not accept the EULA? As
> long as you don't violate the terms of the EULA
> (no matter that you did not accept it).
I
+++ Raj Mathur [19/05/08 13:34 +0530]:
>My terms of buying a computer from you:
>
>I will willingly buy and use your computer with Winduhs or any other OS
>pre-installed, but I will not accept the EULA. If this is OK by you,
>then I will not ask for a refund on Winduhs either.
>
>Does that sound
On Friday 16 May 2008 10:49:14 am Manish wrote:
> On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 10:23 AM, Praveen A wrote:
> > 2008/5/14 Naresh Narang:
> >>> Let's replace the case of Winduhs with, say, a
> >>> bundled Reliance/Tata
> >>> PCMCIA data card in a special offer. Having bought
> >>> a laptop with one
> >>>
2008/5/15 Manish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Slight correction. It only asks you to contact the reseller for
> their refund or credit policy, not that you _can_ get it. It's then
> upto the reseller's refund/credit policy (which may not exist
> or be simply to deny such requests). I guess they are on
On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 10:23 AM, Praveen A wrote:
> 2008/5/14 Naresh Narang:
>>> Let's replace the case of Winduhs with, say, a
>>> bundled Reliance/Tata
>>> PCMCIA data card in a special offer. Having bought
>>> a laptop with one
>>> of those cards, would you then be able to claim a
>>> refund o
2008/5/14 Naresh Narang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>> Let's replace the case of Winduhs with, say, a
>> bundled Reliance/Tata
>> PCMCIA data card in a special offer. Having bought
>> a laptop with one
>> of those cards, would you then be able to claim a
>> refund on it because
>> you didn't want to use
On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 5:07 PM, Manish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 4:38 PM, Linux Lingam wrote:
>> [snip]
>>
>>
>> > Meanwhile try to get a story posted on slashdot.
>>
>>
>> in the days of sincere and professional journalism,
>> newspapers and magazines would get thei
--- Raj Mathur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Let's replace the case of Winduhs with, say, a
> bundled Reliance/Tata
> PCMCIA data card in a special offer. Having bought
> a laptop with one
> of those cards, would you then be able to claim a
> refund on it because
> you didn't want to use it?
2008/5/13 Manish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>> Windows Vista EULA does not have an option like this.
>
> Which Vista EULA does not? Because Vista Business does.
> Please see my earlier email for verbatim quote.
That is what I read somewhere, Microsoft has fixed this loop hole in
Vista. Now that you ha
On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 5:15 PM, Manish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 4:57 PM, Tanveer Singh wrote:
> [snip]
> > > Its the official policy of most major newpapers/magazines not to post
> > anything against advertisers. So unless there is a major court case and
> > convic
On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 4:57 PM, Tanveer Singh wrote:
[snip]
> > Its the official policy of most major newpapers/magazines not to post
> anything against advertisers. So unless there is a major court case and
> convictions etc., the story will not be published.
Sorry for questioning your state
On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 4:38 PM, Linux Lingam wrote:
> [snip]
>
>
> > Meanwhile try to get a story posted on slashdot.
>
>
> in the days of sincere and professional journalism,
> newspapers and magazines would get their journalists to get on the
> phone, and/or chase down legal experts, and in
On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 4:38 PM, Linux Lingam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [snip]
>
> > Meanwhile try to get a story posted on slashdot.
>
>
> in the days of sincere and professional journalism,
> newspapers and magazines would get their journalists to get on the
> phone, and/or chase down legal
On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 10:43 PM, Manish wrote:
[snip]
> Yes, I was aware that it had Windows pre-installed. The
> advertisements did not say that I will have to agree to a separate
> (restrictive) license nor did it list the terms of the license
> anywhere I could read before I made the purch
[snip]
> Meanwhile try to get a story posted on slashdot.
in the days of sincere and professional journalism,
newspapers and magazines would get their journalists to get on the
phone, and/or chase down legal experts, and industry experts, to get a
multi-dimensional, unbiased, investigative repo
>
>
> > IANAL, TINLA.
>
> Ack.
>
> -- Manish
>
>
> IANAL, but from whatever I have seen from the Europe case, and MRTPCs
notices served to companies, you do not have a case in consumer court at
all.
A vendor has the right to sell bundled stuff. For example Big Bazaar can
sell rice bundled with wa
On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 7:26 AM, Raj Mathur wrote:
> On Wednesday 14 May 2008, Manish wrote:
> > [snip]
>
> > It's not Microsoft who is supposed to refund but the reseller (as I
> > understand from the license.) Besides the license asks to contact
> > the "manufacturer or installer", if you do
On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 9:37 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
>
> On 14-May-08, at 2:37 AM, Linux Lingam wrote:
>
> > hence the helpful 'decline' or 'do not accept' button or equivalent,
> > provided by the user-friendly microsoft.
>
> this is no longer provided - accept or switch off
I wish would
On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Praveen A wrote:
> 2008/5/13 Raj Mathur :
>
> > On a side note, if this becomes common I wonder what changes MS is going
> > to make in their licence? :) Will they remove the ``if you do not
> > agree'' section altogether? Or are they required by law to keep
2008/5/13 Raj Mathur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> On a side note, if this becomes common I wonder what changes MS is going
> to make in their licence? :) Will they remove the ``if you do not
> agree'' section altogether? Or are they required by law to keep it
> there?
Windows Vista EULA does not h
On 14-May-08, at 2:37 AM, Linux Lingam wrote:
> hence the helpful 'decline' or 'do not accept' button or equivalent,
> provided by the user-friendly microsoft.
this is no longer provided - accept or switch off
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://nrcfossh
On Wednesday 14 May 2008, Manish wrote:
> [snip]
> It's not Microsoft who is supposed to refund but the reseller (as I
> understand from the license.) Besides the license asks to contact
> the "manufacturer or installer", if you do not agree to the license,
> "to determine their return policy for
On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 4:34 AM, Mani A <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[snip]
>
> I bought an ACER laptop (Aspire 4520) that was supposed to have Linpus
> Linux installed as per all documents and the sealed packaging. But
> inside they had installed Win XP + M$word without even a sticker or a
> CD.
On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 2:37 AM, Linux Lingam wrote:
> [snip]
>
> start publicly documenting every step, and auditing the time and
> effort. you could even blog about it in advance.
Primary reason I did not do it in public (other than just seeking
advice) was to not let them blame me for malice
Manish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 4. Inform the OEM with the installation report.
> > 5. Quote the License Agreement stating Refund Clause.
>
> I like the way you think. And of course, this would be ideal, except:
>
> 1. You probably will not get the laptop since the model you like com
[snip]
raj, you could buy a laptop with windows bundled (but not yet
installed until you click the EULA in acceptance)
on receiving the laptop, you choose to read the EULA clearly. even
microsoft encourages you to read it, so would any lawyer.
upon reading it, a few may just discover something in
On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 10:28 PM, Raj Mathur wrote:
> On Tuesday 13 May 2008, Manish wrote:
> > [snip]
>
> > Thanks. What I am beginning to wonder is if it's okay under Indian
> > law to bundle products (that too from different companies.) Feels
> > like arm twisting to me.. and it hurts. But
On Tuesday 13 May 2008, Manish wrote:
> [snip]
> Thanks. What I am beginning to wonder is if it's okay under Indian
> law to bundle products (that too from different companies.) Feels
> like arm twisting to me.. and it hurts. But if it's okay under law
> then I am not sure I have a case.
Playing
2008/5/13 Manish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> I have already offered to get the physical verification done by their
> service engineers at their service center and courier the media to
> them at my expense. But none of this matters since they have refused
> the refund outright on the grounds that
On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 6:36 PM, Anand Shankar wrote:
>
> Should we not act contractually:
>
> 1. Order the PC/Laptop, stating the intention.
> 2. Ask the Commissioning Engineer to Click No, when prompted to accept
> License
> 3. Ask the commissioning engineer to sign the installation report,
On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 6:18 PM, Sudev Barar wrote:
> 2008/5/13 Manish
>
> >
> > Is the practice of "tying" or "bundling" illegal under Indian laws? Do
> > we have any lawyers on the list? Should this be taken up in consumer
> > court or elsewhere? Suggestions please.
> >
> Consumer cour
On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 2:39 AM, Linux Lingam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> nope. it is your legal option to say no, so you did.
> m$ is legally bound to refund you. lenovo has to figure out how.
> did you have witnesses, and/or video-document the process with witnesses,
> when you clicked 'no'
2008/5/13 Manish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> Is the practice of "tying" or "bundling" illegal under Indian laws? Do
> we have any lawyers on the list? Should this be taken up in consumer
> court or elsewhere? Suggestions please.
>
Consumer court is better. Haing dealt with them in past as a defe
On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 9:25 PM, Manish wrote:
> Hello All,
>
>Just wanted to share a quick update on my quest to reclaim M$
> tax.
>
>I have been following up with Lenovo customer care for past
> few days (email and phone) and today I got a call from some
> executive from Lenovo Singapor
On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 9:25 PM, Manish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello All,
>
>Just wanted to share a quick update on my quest to reclaim M$
> tax.
>
>I have been following up with Lenovo customer care for past
> few days (email and phone) and today I got a call from some
> executive
2008/5/6 Manish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>I have been following up with Lenovo customer care for past
> few days (email and phone) and today I got a call from some
> executive from Lenovo Singapore. He wanted to ask why I
[SNIP]
> He assured me that he would follow it up and keep me posted.
If
Hello All,
Just wanted to share a quick update on my quest to reclaim M$
tax.
I have been following up with Lenovo customer care for past
few days (email and phone) and today I got a call from some
executive from Lenovo Singapore. He wanted to ask why I
disagreed with the license and told
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