Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?
--- lo sens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: more important than how it is fed in. And Safety Scissors and Sutekh had awesome sounds spilling out. I second this. They are awesome as live acts and I cannot recommend you see them enough. Also keep in mind that I've seen many many acts live, these were in the top 3 (think Paperclip People, Laurent, Voitek etc) Safety Scissors seemed to always have these awesome off-kilter beats spilling out, hi-hats and clicks and noises flying every which way and yet it was so damn funky. Sutekh was right on for the darkness. -Dave __ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?
A copy of the pdf I got from Richie is at www.openbar.com/Invitation_final.pdf On Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 01:45:49PM -0500, dr wrote: haven't found the actual Midem press release.. Tosh? My comments on the entire thing is that some people hold to tradition way too strongly, and often for the wrong reasons. Are you willing to argue that the 12 vinyl recording was the the best solution for dance music dj's, or was it simply the only one available at the time? A tangent, but why did Mad Mike use analog gear and tape editing? because that's what he had most readily available to him at the time. After that, it becomes the process he knew best, and gave the sounds that people have come to associate with him. Progress is a fine thing. The advent of the word processor did not kill the written word, nor did it suddenly create a billion masterpieces of literature. -- fix.er \'fik-s*r\ n : one that fixes : as : one that intervenes to enable a person to circumvent the law or obtain a political favor : one that adjusts matters or disputes by negotiation
Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?
A copy of the pdf I got from Richie is at www.openbar.com/Invitation_final.pdf OOOH, I didn't know that this is what sparked the debate!!! Hell, I think its a perfect marriage!! The one draw back aside from the smell and static ;) is that I recognize records by sight and by the little pictures or words I draw on the label. This is another reason why artists hate me at times, I often have no clue what I am playing, unless it is *extraordinary*. All I see and know is a little picture I drew with a black sharpie, like an arrow, or squiggle, and I instantly know what I am grabbing, but no clue who made it... So with this technology, every word will be in the exact same font, making the track search difficult, IMHO... My big question is when and where did Richie test this, because you know he did at some point live... And I know these talks have been going on around the +8 tour... hmmm... darw_n create, demonstrate, toneshift... www.thedemonstration.com www.sphereproductions.com www.mannequinodd.com www.mp3.com/darw_n search for djdarwin on napster
Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?
On Tue, 23 Jan 2001, Jayson B. wrote: ]there will be a new file format and it will ] have DVD quality sound. ] ] DIVX;), MPEG7?? ] ] its talking about SACD (super audio cd). There's two formats, but they do ] the exact same thing. ] ] and they're better than dvd sound. They just use a dvd player. SACD wont run on your regular DVD player, that's the truth, unless it's one of those combo ones which are just starting to surface now. In general, you'll need a new player. ] Its a five channel format that if i remember correctly, is recorded at ] 96khz. I found this on the devil's website The sound of SACD comes directly from Direct Digital Stream (DSD) recording technology. DSD's simplified mechanism for recording and playback results in a frequency response of over 100kHz and a dynamic range over 120dB across the audible frequency range. DSD increases the resolution of music by more closely following the original wave form of the music, which results in music reproduction that is remarkably pure and faithful to the original. For additional information concerning the technology behind SACD, please link to Sony Electronics SACD In addition to exceptional sound quality through the DSD system, the SACD format can accommodate more than four times the information of the current CD format. With this extra capacity, a standard Super Audio CD will provide space for 2-channel stereo data, as well as an area for up to 6-track multi-channel data, storage capacity for text and images, disc variations, copyright protection and much more. On their site, Sony note that in the first SACD releases, Miles Davis has two.. cool.. :) There is also a DVD-Audio format starting to arise.. It wont run on a regular DVD-video player, but future DVD-audio players will also play DVD-video (must be something to do with required hardware for decoding, since DVD-audio is decompressed at 9.6 Mb/s compared to the audio in DVDs at 6.144 Mb/s. Both formats now include copywright protection. Kieran.
RE: SACD WAS: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?
Remember when equipment manufacturers and record labels figured out they could make a lot of cash by remastering albums to the new CD format and sell us back all the albums we already owned in a new format? Remember when someone told you it cost more to produce a tape yet we're still charged more for a CD? A lot of the hyped benefit of this strictly proprietary format relies on an adequate remastering job... back in the day of the CD's commercial birth those supposed remastering jobs were bullshit... and mostly are to this day. Buyer beware. Ryan Heard -Original Message- From: Kieran [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 5:00 PM To: Jayson B. Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM? On Tue, 23 Jan 2001, Jayson B. wrote: ]there will be a new file format and it will ] have DVD quality sound. ] ] DIVX;), MPEG7?? ] ] its talking about SACD (super audio cd). There's two formats, but they do ] the exact same thing. ] ] and they're better than dvd sound. They just use a dvd player. SACD wont run on your regular DVD player, that's the truth, unless it's one of those combo ones which are just starting to surface now. In general, you'll need a new player. ] Its a five channel format that if i remember correctly, is recorded at ] 96khz. I found this on the devil's website The sound of SACD comes directly from Direct Digital Stream (DSD) recording technology. DSD's simplified mechanism for recording and playback results in a frequency response of over 100kHz and a dynamic range over 120dB across the audible frequency range. DSD increases the resolution of music by more closely following the original wave form of the music, which results in music reproduction that is remarkably pure and faithful to the original. For additional information concerning the technology behind SACD, please link to Sony Electronics SACD In addition to exceptional sound quality through the DSD system, the SACD format can accommodate more than four times the information of the current CD format. With this extra capacity, a standard Super Audio CD will provide space for 2-channel stereo data, as well as an area for up to 6-track multi-channel data, storage capacity for text and images, disc variations, copyright protection and much more. On their site, Sony note that in the first SACD releases, Miles Davis has two.. cool.. :) There is also a DVD-Audio format starting to arise.. It wont run on a regular DVD-video player, but future DVD-audio players will also play DVD-video (must be something to do with required hardware for decoding, since DVD-audio is decompressed at 9.6 Mb/s compared to the audio in DVDs at 6.144 Mb/s. Both formats now include copywright protection. Kieran. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?
I pretty well agree with Dale's sentiments on this, and was disappointed at all the geriatric nostalgia on the list. There is no doubt in my mind that dance music will move on from vinyl and turntables, though to what I'm not sure. Safety Scissors and Sutekh gave a hint over the weekend. Both played sets from their Power Books, using, I understand, a program Sutekh helped write called Max MSP. I don't know anything about the program, but what came out of the speakers seemed really close in flow and spontaneity to a dj set. Can anyone shed any light on the program? How does it differ to a program like ProTools? Whatever, the point a few people have made and one I agree with is that the sound that comes out of the speakers is more important than how it is fed in. And Safety Scissors and Sutekh had awesome sounds spilling out. Cheers sens --- Dale Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is the master photographer who releases the shutter on his/her camera to take a picture not an artist? Painters of the day argued they weren't, but the world has since thought different. What about digital artists that use the keyboard and mouse on their computer to tap into their minds and create imagery that before could never be realized. Are they not artists? Strangely, early on it was the photographers who said they weren't-- How can this be art? The machine does all the work. --repeating the very same criticisms that were used to slag their own medium when it was first introduced. Hypocrisy... What about electronic producers overseeing an ensemble of gear full of 'buttons' with a 'computer program' in the center of it all? 99% of the music discussed on this list was created using these technologies. It is just another tool, making part of the process easier, so the artist can expand their vision even further than before. Just like all of them, there will be a lot of shiza artists (DJs) barely making a tangible piece of work (set) out of their gear, but a tasteful audience can discern a good artist from just a craftsman. Can we not tell the difference between a vacation snapshot, and the work of Robert Mapplethorpe? It will be the same with DJing. Developing a tool to make production easier means that the standards of quality for that medium have to be raised as well, and don't expect to hear the same DJ sets you've always heard. Expect more. Every tool or technology has its own individual quirks that, over time, the users get creative with, and give a whole new credibility to that same technology. When digital imagery first came out it was all pixelated and choppy looking. (E...) Everyone tried hard and fast to advance resolutions and quality to make the imagery look as 'real' as possible, and they achieved it-- but it's funny that now everyone is hungry for the old low-res graphics, and half the typefaces you see on Mtv lately are pixelated--qualities unique to that medium alone that have grown to be accepted. It's just evolution. New tools are developed, and new skills evolve to master those tools. Slowly they are assimilated... Of course, there are some that would argue that the DJ is nothing but a relay between the producers--the people that actually wrote all of the music the DJs play--and the audience... while the turntable is doing all the work! Can you say 'live set'? very big ;) Dale _ http://cars.yahoo.com.au/ - Yahoo! Cars - Buy, sell or finance a car..
Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?
on 1/23/01 10:06 PM, lo sens at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I pretty well agree with Dale's sentiments on this, and was disappointed at all the geriatric nostalgia on the list. Let's please not get age-ist here. I've been accused of being both geriatric and nostalgic, but I'm far from a vinyl facist. In fact, I've almost finished making mp3s of all my swing 78s (crackles lovingly maintained...) BTW, this message composed on a Powerbook and shipped via Airport (Thanks, Steve!). -- There4IM Glad we're moving on. P.S. Thanks for the tip about Mode for Joe on Blue Note, whoever that was...
Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?
P.S. Thanks for the tip about Mode for Joe on Blue Note, whoever that was... Glad to oblige ;) My Blue Note tip for today is: Jackie McLean's Destination Out (4165). Enjoy! Jonny.
Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?
there will be a new file format and it will have DVD quality sound. DIVX;), MPEG7?? darw_n its talking about SACD (super audio cd). There's two formats, but they do the exact same thing. and they're better than dvd sound. They just use a dvd player. Its a five channel format that if i remember correctly, is recorded at 96khz. Just to give you an idea: Neil Young has been opposed to Cds for the begining. hardly ANY of his material has been released on cd, because he feels the format is not of high enough quality. He is the biggest supporter of SACD. _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?
umm, art without expression is called engineering. and it's boring. From: darw_n [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: JARED WILSON [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM? Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 14:49:47 -0800 Art in all forms is about expression. Expression by whom?? darw_n create, demonstrate, toneshift... search for djdarwin on napster www.sphereproductions.com www.mannequinodd.com www.mp3.com/darw_n - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?
anybody who says that probably doesn't understand how cd's work. sorry, i think it's true. a lot of people will claim all sorts of BS about vinyl like its 'infinite bandwidth', blah blah... as far as accuracy goes, cd kills any other sort of standard audio format we've seen. some people don't value clinical accuracy, though... Mike From: Jayson B. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM? Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 00:01:10 - there will be a new file format and it will have DVD quality sound. DIVX;), MPEG7?? darw_n its talking about SACD (super audio cd). There's two formats, but they do the exact same thing. and they're better than dvd sound. They just use a dvd player. Its a five channel format that if i remember correctly, is recorded at 96khz. Just to give you an idea: Neil Young has been opposed to Cds for the begining. hardly ANY of his material has been released on cd, because he feels the format is not of high enough quality. He is the biggest supporter of SACD. _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?
I think the laptop/CD thing is just a different way than the vinyl method. Both have their pluses and minuses, though there is definately a nostalgic/stylistic tradition and huge storehouse of skills for the vinyl-playing DJ in the dance/electronic music scene. When electrified instruments came in the people playing acoustic instruments complained (others embraced the new technology and took music in a new directions). When synths came in those playing electrified instruments complained When samplers came in those playing synths complained... When DJs with their records came in Soon people will be nostalging about the good old 128k old skool mp3 sound, and how CPU glitches in a set added warmth and character.. and bitching about some new tech that has appeared on the scene and is taking all the art/warmth/whatever..
RE: [313] Digital Jockey vs. Disc Jockey (was: Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?)
Since CDs have not replaced vinyl in the hands of true artists, this does not seem like it will or should either. Can you imagine Leonardo painting the Mona Lisa in Photoshop? Scott
RE: [313] Digital Jockey vs. Disc Jockey (was: Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?)
On Tue, 23 Jan 2001, Spellman, Scott wrote: Since CDs have not replaced vinyl in the hands of true artists, this does not seem like it will or should either. Can you imagine Leonardo painting the Mona Lisa in Photoshop? No, because Photoshop is an image editor, not a creator. Fractal Painer (can't remember if it's just Painter now) might do the trick. But, anyway. Tools are just tools, it's how you use them that counts. J Jussi Lehtonen [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.netppl.fi/~sandman Do not allow yourself to be programmed. For once, in your life, take control. Take control. - UR
RE: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?
At 10:26 AM 2001-01-23, FC3 Richards wrote: the way computer technology has been going for the past 5 years MP3's will become outdated in the next 2 years. there will be a new file format and it will have DVD quality sound. What file format are you referring to, or are you making this up as you go? by 'dvd-quality-sound', you either mean 5.1 surround (which doesn't directly benefit this appliction, although might have neat uses), or the fact that each channel is 48khz (dat quality). CDs are 44.1khz, which is nearly indistinguishable from 48. IIRC, MP3 supports 48khz sampling rate files. If I'm wrong, and it 'only' supports 44.1khz, then it's still not that much of an audible difference. If you're talking about DTS, that's an entirely different can of worms and is still years off from having reasonably priced computer equipment that can input/output that kind of sound. and no one will want to use the present format anymore. MP3 supports the audio quality formats (16/48/stereo) that people have been using for years (15 years if you count 44.1, which is what CDs are). To claim it's going to just 'go away' in the next 2 is kind of absurd. vinyl has stood the test of time, and it isn't going to disappear anytime soon. As have CDs, which the huddled masses have eaten up as the end-all to audio quality. -j
Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?
I tried to send this yesterday, but it never showed. Then again about an hour ago. Nothing. Once is chance... Twice is coincedence... Three times means war, Mr. Bond... I ain't got nothing against technology. I think you're missing the point. Technology can make for better creativity or it can hamper it, it's not an either/or argument. Do you really want to watch some dude just press a few buttons on a computer, a pre-planned set, there could be no spontaneity, by default. It would be as boring as hell. Any fool could use the new system as it would be a relative cinch. I am sure the turntablism will change but in a way that the DJ is still DJing, not the computer programme. True, but I think you are mistaken. Is the master photographer who releases the shutter on his/her camera to take a picture not an artist? Painters of the day argued they weren't, but the world has since thought different. What about digital artists that use the keyboard and mouse on their computer to tap into their minds and create imagery that before could never be realized. Are they not artists? Strangely, early on it was the photographers who said they weren't-- How can this be art? The machine does all the work. --repeating the very same criticisms that were used to slag their own medium when it was first introduced. Hypocrisy... What about electronic producers overseeing an ensemble of gear full of 'buttons' with a 'computer program' in the center of it all? 99% of the music discussed on this list was created using these technologies. It is just another tool, making part of the process easier, so the artist can expand their vision even further than before. Just like all of them, there will be a lot of shiza artists (DJs) barely making a tangible piece of work (set) out of their gear, but a tasteful audience can discern a good artist from just a craftsman. Can we not tell the difference between a vacation snapshot, and the work of Robert Mapplethorpe? It will be the same with DJing. Developing a tool to make production easier means that the standards of quality for that medium have to be raised as well, and don't expect to hear the same DJ sets you've always heard. Expect more. Every tool or technology has its own individual quirks that, over time, the users get creative with, and give a whole new credibility to that same technology. When digital imagery first came out it was all pixelated and choppy looking. (E...) Everyone tried hard and fast to advance resolutions and quality to make the imagery look as 'real' as possible, and they achieved it-- but it's funny that now everyone is hungry for the old low-res graphics, and half the typefaces you see on Mtv lately are pixelated--qualities unique to that medium alone that have grown to be accepted. It's just evolution. New tools are developed, and new skills evolve to master those tools. Slowly they are assimilated... Of course, there are some that would argue that the DJ is nothing but a relay between the producers--the people that actually wrote all of the music the DJs play--and the audience... while the turntable is doing all the work! Can you say 'live set'? very big ;) Dale
Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?
So with Final Scratch nothing has changed about DJing? What about picking up a 12 black circular piece of vinyl, putting it on a rotating wheel, seeing where the grooves for the tracks and breaks are, putting the needle on the record, listening for cue points, pre-matching the turntable speed to align the incoming track for beatmatching, and then, you know, mixing? I'm saying nothing against the new stuff like Final Scratch. It is *new*. It is not a substitute for vinyl mixing with two turntables, *even using the same program material*. I've been a vinyl DJ for going on 27 years now (with a big break between my college radio days and restarting in 1993), and that's not going to stop. Just like people didn't stop using acoustic guitars because Les Paul and Leo Fender figured out a good way to put electric pickups on them, and then Jimi Hendrix turned the world upside down the way no acoustic can. It's not like I'm against technological advancement. I bought a Denon CD mixer when that unit first hit the market. Then I sold it within a year, even though it's more portable, more flexible and arguably a better overall unit than a cruddy old 1200 turntable. The point of things like Final Scratch should not be to play the same old stuff we do on turntables. That stuff co-evolved with turntables and DJ styles and audiences, and won't translate all that effectively to a new technology. That's what I learned from my Denon. I'm a little tired of the zealotry on all sides of the issue. It's tiresome enough from the vinyl die-hards, who claim to see nothing useful in the newer interactive approaches. It's downright silly coming from the people who claim that on-screen mixing is somehow totally superior to everything that's ever come before it. We can't hold back the future. Leo Fender couldn't have predicted Jimi, and the Technics designers in 1971 couldn't have predicted hip hop, house and turntablism. Why would we want to constrain the future of computer-based musical montage, whatever that turns out to be? phred
Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?
True, but I think you are mistaken...What about digital artists that use the keyboard and mouse on their computer to tap into their minds and create imagery that before could never be realized. Are they not artists?.How can this be art? The machine does all the work. --repeating the very same criticisms that were used to slag their own medium when it was first introduced. Hypocrisy... What about electronic producers overseeing an ensemble of gear full of 'buttons' with a 'computer program' in the center of it all? 99% of the music discussed on this list was created using these technologies. It is just another tool, making part of the process easier, so the artist can expand their vision even further than before. Just like all of them, there will be a lot of shiza artists (DJs) barely making a tangible piece of work (set) out of their gear, but a tasteful audience can discern a good artist from just a craftsman. \ Of course, there are some that would argue that the DJ is nothing but a relay between the producers--the people that actually wrote all of the music the DJs play--and the audience... while the turntable is doing all the work! Can you say 'live set'? Nicely put. It is a matter of degrees. I don't think I am hypocritical as I am arguing within the genre as it were but I do see a lot of programmed music out there and it would be a shame for that to extend to DJing. I guess for any of us to truly understand the finalscratch we would need a demo of it but from what I have read it sounds like it's cutting corners technology rather than technology that opens up new creative opportunities. No one who knows me would say I am some traditionalist at all but if you got swamped with the numbers of crap join the dot trance recs I do every week you would be fearful too. But in the end the hard reality is that the market will decide. Certainly if Richie and John are in favour of such new technologies then that is a good endorsement as I believe they have integrity but I am still not sold. Maurice Fulton creates all his music on just a powerbook and a keyboard which is incredible, very simple set-up, and his music is great, so I am not slagging off simpler set-ups. He can take it on a plane and work on tracks! That is cool, right?
Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?
Anyone at MIDEM and see the release of Final Scratch? You know how I've been going on about the future of DJ'ing? Well Hawtin and Acquaviva along with N2IT out of The Netherlands did their press release of Final Scratch yesterday. It's not the first time they've used the system, it was used during their Peel show a few months ago, and John has been using it at almost every gig for the last few months. Essentially the only aspect of DJ'ing that it changes is the carrying of vinyl and selecting of tracks to play. Now instead of carrying boxes of vinyl you need only a suitable powerful laptop, and instead of flipping through your record box you just double-click a track and it's ready to go. That is the only aspect of DJ'ing as we all currently know that changes. So now what? Tosh
Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?
Sounds horrible, going through the box is part of the artform. It would make it too calculated, you can't flick through your box, land on something else and think hmmm, now maybe I can play that instead. The advantage is that it overcomes the dreaded, 'the airline lost my records, damn I will have to borrow Judge Jules' records or make a quick sortie to the local record store' syndrome. Anyone at MIDEM and see the release of Final Scratch? You know how I've been going on about the future of DJ'ing? Well Hawtin and Acquaviva along with N2IT out of The Netherlands did their press release of Final Scratch yesterday. It's not the first time they've used the system, it was used during their Peel show a few months ago, and John has been using it at almost every gig for the last few months. Essentially the only aspect of DJ'ing that it changes is the carrying of vinyl and selecting of tracks to play. Now instead of carrying boxes of vinyl you need only a suitable powerful laptop, and instead of flipping through your record box you just double-click a track and it's ready to go. That is the only aspect of DJ'ing as we all currently know that changes.
Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?
The smell of brand new vinyl out of the sleeve, the crackle of the record under the needle... there's something spiritual and special about vinyl that no other media can replicate... Old vinyl especially. I don't want your stupid toy... Who cares about the future... time and forces move around and come back on themselves... just because something is new, doesn't make it good... Nick (Dj Pacific:) --- Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sounds horrible, going through the box is part of the artform. It would make it too calculated, you can't flick through your box, land on something else and think hmmm, now maybe I can play that instead. The advantage is that it overcomes the dreaded, 'the airline lost my records, damn I will have to borrow Judge Jules' records or make a quick sortie to the local record store' syndrome. Anyone at MIDEM and see the release of Final Scratch? You know how I've been going on about the future of DJ'ing? Well Hawtin and Acquaviva along with N2IT out of The Netherlands did their press release of Final Scratch yesterday. It's not the first time they've used the system, it was used during their Peel show a few months ago, and John has been using it at almost every gig for the last few months. Essentially the only aspect of DJ'ing that it changes is the carrying of vinyl and selecting of tracks to play. Now instead of carrying boxes of vinyl you need only a suitable powerful laptop, and instead of flipping through your record box you just double-click a track and it's ready to go. That is the only aspect of DJ'ing as we all currently know that changes. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/
Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?
And even then... Same reason why I refuse to play any CD's applies here as well. Pushing buttons has nothing to do with dj'ing as far as I am concerned. Imagine the joy of finally finding that record you've been after for several years, and then compare it to downloading that track from the internet... Nuff said I think. RD Sounds horrible, going through the box is part of the artform. It would make it too calculated, you can't flick through your box, land on something else and think hmmm, now maybe I can play that instead. The advantage is that it overcomes the dreaded, 'the airline lost my records, damn I will have to borrow Judge Jules' records or make a quick sortie to the local record store' syndrome. Anyone at MIDEM and see the release of Final Scratch? You know how I've been going on about the future of DJ'ing? Well Hawtin and Acquaviva along with N2IT out of The Netherlands did their press release of Final Scratch yesterday. It's not the first time they've used the system, it was used during their Peel show a few months ago, and John has been using it at almost every gig for the last few months. Essentially the only aspect of DJ'ing that it changes is the carrying of vinyl and selecting of tracks to play. Now instead of carrying boxes of vinyl you need only a suitable powerful laptop, and instead of flipping through your record box you just double-click a track and it's ready to go. That is the only aspect of DJ'ing as we all currently know that changes. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: 313-he Signup for FREE email and member home pages at http://www.turkey.com
Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?
on one hand, the relief of not carrying about 80+ extra lbs while traveling is understood BUT personally, I have to side with the artform arguement. Seeing a set being pieced together with records and the DJ making the set come together is part of the thrill and artform. It seems we're getting too comfy with this laptop thing- as in the same vein with live PAs. to compare it to art, lets say. its the difference between watching a painter mix the paints and seeing the painting come together with the brush strokes piecing together a visually pleasing result. or watching a painter taking already prepaired elements and just taping them properly to the canvas. blahblahblahitsmonday diana --- stuffed bird [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And even then... Same reason why I refuse to play any CD's applies here as well. Pushing buttons has nothing to do with dj'ing as far as I am concerned. Imagine the joy of finally finding that record you've been after for several years, and then compare it to downloading that track from the internet... Nuff said I think. RD Sounds horrible, going through the box is part of the artform. It would make it too calculated, you can't flick through your box, land on something else and think hmmm, now maybe I can play that instead. The advantage is that it overcomes the dreaded, 'the airline lost my records, damn I will have to borrow Judge Jules' records or make a quick sortie to the local record store' syndrome. Anyone at MIDEM and see the release of Final Scratch? You know how I've been going on about the future of DJ'ing? Well Hawtin and Acquaviva along with N2IT out of The Netherlands did their press release of Final Scratch yesterday. It's not the first time they've used the system, it was used during their Peel show a few months ago, and John has been using it at almost every gig for the last few months. Essentially the only aspect of DJ'ing that it changes is the carrying of vinyl and selecting of tracks to play. Now instead of carrying boxes of vinyl you need only a suitable powerful laptop, and instead of flipping through your record box you just double-click a track and it's ready to go. That is the only aspect of DJ'ing as we all currently know that changes. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: 313-he Signup for FREE email and member home pages at http://www.turkey.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/
Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?
Yeah, I am on the artform side. I think it will be the demise of DJing the day that it becomes a machine-led thing. Big name DJs can have a clause in their contract where someone carries their boxes for them anyway, either that or they can carry them around, build up their muscle tone and look like David Morales. I reckon a big issue that would revolutionise DJing is BETTER SECURITY at airports. It's simply unacceptable the numbers of boxes that go missing or that don't arrive on time. I hear it happens a lot os. on one hand, the relief of not carrying about 80+ extra lbs while traveling is understood BUT personally, I have to side with the artform arguement. Seeing a set being pieced together with records and the DJ making the set come together is part of the thrill and artform. It seems we're getting too comfy with this laptop thing- as in the same vein with live PAs. to compare it to art, lets say. its the difference between watching a painter mix the paints and seeing the painting come together with the brush strokes piecing together a visually pleasing result. or watching a painter taking already prepaired elements and just taping them properly to the canvas.
Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?
Yeah, I am on the artform side. I think it will be the demise of DJing the day that it becomes a machine-led thing. how is it any less of an artform when technology is involved? I think the real issue here is unwarranted nostalgia holding us back from a better experience. How can you confidently state that there's no art to mixing mp3s using finalscratch when you haven't even tried it, and most likely haven't even seen anyone else try it? What, just because it doesn't rely on a crappy, outdated, extremely inconvenient technology, it's not as good? It's not about finding song x on npaster vs finding song x on a record and which is more rewarding - of course it's more rewarding to find song x on vinyl. but try to think of the possibilities that digital mixing opens up - you could easily play your own songs, the ones you don't want to spend $50 getting an acetate cut, or even more to have it actually released. You could work in live elements, you could do effects, the creative control is only limited to what your computer can do. And remember, this system works WITH your turntables - you can still bring your records along and play them the same as you did before. You're not being asked to abandon vinyl here... just to accept the possibility that vinyl is not the end-all, be-all of mixed music. Please don't waste my time arguing practicalities like mp3s don't sound as good or computers crash! - and don't waste my time telling me vinyl is superior becuase it's what we've always used. So what? It's romantic notions like that that'll hold the music back and let it stagnate. Of course there's room to acknowledge the past, but there's also plenty of room to move forward... the problem with accepting new technology might be striking a balance between the two... but denying new technology because it's not what we've always used is not the solution.
Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?
Art in all forms is about expression. Moods emotions that an artform creates are different in each individual. Regardless of what the means are that are used to reach the musical end. what is created is what matters. (plagerisism aside) technological advancement is not the problem. The problem starts when quality and authentisity are compromised for laziness and lack of skill.IMO peace mg [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/22/01 10:47AM Yeah, I am on the artform side. I think it will be the demise of DJing the day that it becomes a machine-led thing. how is it any less of an artform when technology is involved? I think the real issue here is unwarranted nostalgia holding us back from a better experience. How can you confidently state that there's no art to mixing mp3s using finalscratch when you haven't even tried it, and most likely haven't even seen anyone else try it? What, just because it doesn't rely on a crappy, outdated, extremely inconvenient technology, it's not as good? It's not about finding song x on npaster vs finding song x on a record and which is more rewarding - of course it's more rewarding to find song x on vinyl. but try to think of the possibilities that digital mixing opens up - you could easily play your own songs, the ones you don't want to spend $50 getting an acetate cut, or even more to have it actually released. You could work in live elements, you could do effects, the creative control is only limited to what your computer can do. And remember, this system works WITH your turntables - you can still bring your records along and play them the same as you did before. You're not being asked to abandon vinyl here... just to accept the possibility that vinyl is not the end-all, be-all of mixed music. Please don't waste my time arguing practicalities like mp3s don't sound as good or computers crash! - and don't waste my time telling me vinyl is superior becuase it's what we've always used. So what? It's romantic notions like that that'll hold the music back and let it stagnate. Of course there's room to acknowledge the past, but there's also plenty of room to move forward... the problem with accepting new technology might be striking a balance between the two... but denying new technology because it's not what we've always used is not the solution. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Matthew Gerbasi |l| MediaVest Detroit |l| 248-458-8567|l| [EMAIL PROTECTED] aka [EMAIL PROTECTED] presently your future is history -- Basi
Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?
Very nicely stated. Art in all forms is about expression. Moods emotions that an artform creates are different in each individual. Regardless of what the means are that are used to reach the musical end. what is created is what matters. (plagerisism aside) technological advancement is not the problem. The problem starts when quality and authentisity are compromised for laziness and lack of skill.IMO
Digital Jockey vs. Disc Jockey (was: Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?)
I see benefits in both styles. In any given party, there's always a group of people that like to be up close to the dj to see him/her work the tables, and then there are people that are into the music just as much who sit back and dance/chill away from the dj. So, if you're not hell bent on seeing exactly what the dj is doing, then it shouldn't matter what medium s/he is using. I think being a digital-J could be really sweetbut for different reasons. With vinyl mixing, most of the effort and time is spent matching beats, creating a flow a flow on the fly. This creates a great live energy feeland is (and always will be) awesome to experience both as the dj and the listener. However, with a digital set already put together, the effort of the dj can be spent in other departments; especially effects. I've been toying around with some pre-made sets, and then working them through a Space Echo, Filter, spring reverb, and digi-reverb. The result is quite mind blowing and I'm actually way more animated tweaking all those effects than when I'm doing a straight up turntable mix. Though the source may be pre-made, the result is anything but stagnant sounding. For me, what counts is the end producthow it SOUNDS. As long as you're doing something creative on the fly...something that can compliment the mood of the crowd, isn't that what really counts for a dj? As a dj, I will always have a deep love for the tactile feel of vinyl. But, I'm not gonna turn my shoulder to new things that can enhance the experience. GYS set.go.recordings www.mp3.com/gys -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:47 AM To: Cyclone Wehner Cc: 313 Detroit Subject: Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM? Yeah, I am on the artform side. I think it will be the demise of DJing the day that it becomes a machine-led thing. how is it any less of an artform when technology is involved? I think the real issue here is unwarranted nostalgia holding us back from a better experience. How can you confidently state that there's no art to mixing mp3s using finalscratch when you haven't even tried it, and most likely haven't even seen anyone else try it? What, just because it doesn't rely on a crappy, outdated, extremely inconvenient technology, it's not as good? It's not about finding song x on npaster vs finding song x on a record and which is more rewarding - of course it's more rewarding to find song x on vinyl. but try to think of the possibilities that digital mixing opens up - you could easily play your own songs, the ones you don't want to spend $50 getting an acetate cut, or even more to have it actually released. You could work in live elements, you could do effects, the creative control is only limited to what your computer can do. And remember, this system works WITH your turntables - you can still bring your records along and play them the same as you did before. You're not being asked to abandon vinyl here... just to accept the possibility that vinyl is not the end-all, be-all of mixed music. Please don't waste my time arguing practicalities like mp3s don't sound as good or computers crash! - and don't waste my time telling me vinyl is superior becuase it's what we've always used. So what? It's romantic notions like that that'll hold the music back and let it stagnate. Of course there's room to acknowledge the past, but there's also plenty of room to move forward... the problem with accepting new technology might be striking a balance between the two... but denying new technology because it's not what we've always used is not the solution. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Digital Jockey vs. Disc Jockey (was: Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?)
I see benefits in both styles. In any given party, there's always a group of people that like to be up close to the dj to see him/her work the tables, and then there are people that are into the music just as much who sit back and dance/chill away from the dj. So, if you're not hell bent on seeing exactly what the dj is doing, then it shouldn't matter what medium s/he is using. I don't know. I think the presence of a DJ is one thing that makes a great DJ, I can't overstate that, I love personality, presence. I interviewed two US DJs out here lately and they were agreeing that in the future the presentation aspect will be what distinguishes DJs and by this I mean not the lights etc but the actual performance - think of someone like Green Velvet. That may not be desirable to some but it's an interesting idea. I guess Hawtin would appreciate the technology described, I can see why. But then again I find him overly clinical as a DJ, as much as I like his production work and his ideas and concepts. I can't see too many house DJs adopting the new thing - can you imagine Kenny Dope pressing buttons, I don't think so. I am a big fan of technology and I see advantages in it (I spend my life on computers) but if that technology disenables the creativity of the artist then it's not especially cool, in my books. However, it's possible that the new technology could be used innovatively, sure, and then the divide between the DJ and live performer may become more tenuous and that could be inevitable and interesting - I guess that again is what interests Hawtin. I still think there is a future for the turntables - new avenues to explore. Like aren't some of the hip-hop turntablists establishing a way of notating scratches?
Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?
Art in all forms is about expression. I would have to disagree. That is a very modernistic view of art. Jared Wilson FTM Records From: Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM? Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 03:01:17 +1100 Very nicely stated. Art in all forms is about expression. Moods emotions that an artform creates are different in each individual. Regardless of what the means are that are used to reach the musical end. what is created is what matters. (plagerisism aside) technological advancement is not the problem. The problem starts when quality and authentisity are compromised for laziness and lack of skill.IMO - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?
how is it any less of an artform when technology is involved? I ain't got nothing against technology. I think you're missing the point. Technology can make for better creativity or it can hamper it, it's not an either/or argument. Do you really want to watch some dude just press a few buttons on a computer, a pre-planned set, there could be no spontaneity, by default. It would be as boring as hell. Any fool could use the new system as it would be a relative cinch. I am sure the turntablism will change but in a way that the DJ is still DJing, not the computer programme. Please don't waste my time arguing practicalities like mp3s don't sound as good or computers crash! - and don't waste my time telling me vinyl is superior becuase it's what we've always used. So what? It's romantic notions like that that'll hold the music back and let it stagnate. Of course there's room to acknowledge the past, but there's also plenty of room to move forward... the problem with accepting new technology might be striking a balance between the two... but denying new technology because it's not what we've always used is not the solution. Well romantic notions are not so bad, and romantic notions can change with the times. Art is a romantic notion to begin with, so maybe if you wish to abandon them all you can abandon that one and we can approach music in a purely practical, methodical way, boring ourselves in the process, but no one here has said what you have above. Again, it's not an either or argument.
Re: [313] Digital Jockey vs. Disc Jockey (was: Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?)
I totally agree, but what I'm saying is that you can have presence with equipment other than turntables. How? It would have to be something that demands some kind of physicality. (Great debate by the way.)
Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?
I remember being in Amsterdam around 1990 and being shocked by the amount of music that was available on CD then. All the old Target, Music Man and RS stuff were all available on CD singles right back then. I then had a heated debate in a record shop with a DJ from Manchester who came to Europe every month to buy his music on CD as he swore that CD mixing was taking over from vinyl at dance clubs, and this was over 10 years ago! Well all I can say is I'm glad I can look back now and see how wrong he was and that I can spend many happy hours reminiscing through my vinyl collection of the past 10 years. I think the same thing will be said of Digital mixing in 10 years from now. I cant believe many DJs would trade the hassle of lugging big boxes of vinyl around only to lose the hands on buzz of cuing up a bit of vinyl and banging off a mix. Plus its an asthetic thing. You see a DJ stretched across a pair of decks and thier very prescence helps control and rock the crowd. Peace Stewart - Original Message - From: Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 2:50 PM Subject: Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM? Yeah, I am on the artform side. I think it will be the demise of DJing the day that it becomes a machine-led thing. Big name DJs can have a clause in their contract where someone carries their boxes for them anyway, either that or they can carry them around, build up their muscle tone and look like David Morales. I reckon a big issue that would revolutionise DJing is BETTER SECURITY at airports. It's simply unacceptable the numbers of boxes that go missing or that don't arrive on time. I hear it happens a lot os. on one hand, the relief of not carrying about 80+ extra lbs while traveling is understood BUT personally, I have to side with the artform arguement. Seeing a set being pieced together with records and the DJ making the set come together is part of the thrill and artform. It seems we're getting too comfy with this laptop thing- as in the same vein with live PAs. to compare it to art, lets say. its the difference between watching a painter mix the paints and seeing the painting come together with the brush strokes piecing together a visually pleasing result. or watching a painter taking already prepaired elements and just taping them properly to the canvas. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Digital Jockey vs. Disc Jockey (was: Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?)
I totally agree, but what I'm saying is that you can have presence with equipment other than turntables. How? It would have to be something that demands some kind of physicality. (Great debate by the way.) well, the whole point of finalscratch is it still uses the turntables... really the only stage presence you're losing if you use that system is the turn around and dig in your record box part now unless you really dig checking out a dj's butt (which is totally understandable) I don't think it's all that big of a deal. I wish the finalscratch page was still up - if they've really launched the product like they apparently have, you'd think it would be up. It's pretty hard to explain quickly, but you get these special records that you put on any turntable... these records then send a signal to the computer which uses the signal to control the pitch, position, etc, of the mp3 or cd audio or whatever. You're still using vinyl, that's the cool thing. you're not just pushing buttons or whatever, you're playing records, but you're playing mp3s. here's an article: http://www.wirednews.com/news/culture/0,1284,18840,00.html
Re: [313] Digital Jockey vs. Disc Jockey (was: Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?)
Dreadful, ominous name though finalscratch - they should change that now! What's that all about? well, the whole point of finalscratch is it still uses the turntables... really the only stage presence you're losing if you use that system is the turn around and dig in your record box part now unless you really dig checking out a dj's butt (which is totally understandable) I don't think it's all that big of a deal. I wish the finalscratch page was still up - if they've really launched the product like they apparently have, you'd think it would be up. It's pretty hard to explain quickly, but you get these special records that you put on any turntable... these records then send a signal to the computer which uses the signal to control the pitch, position, etc, of the mp3 or cd audio or whatever. You're still using vinyl, that's the cool thing. you're not just pushing buttons or whatever, you're playing records, but you're playing mp3s. here's an article: http://www.wirednews.com/news/culture/0,1284,18840,00.html - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313] Digital Jockey vs. Disc Jockey (was: Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?)
I totally agree, but what I'm saying is that you can have presence with equipment other than turntables. How? It would have to be something that demands some kind of physicality. (Great debate by the way.) I'm talking about effects. The effects I use are old school analogue with lots of physical manipulations possible: knobs, switches, etc., all that can drastically change the sound of whatever is going through it...if you've ever used a space echo, you'll know what I'm talking about. Very very physical device. Every dj that has used my set up has fallen in love with the effects I use; upon the first try, they are all really comfortable tweaking them. The effects are very dj friendly in that you can manipulate the sounds with the same actions as you do on a mixer or on the turntable itself. Using the effects is such a natural progression and compliments the turntable experience because of the spontaneity- if you take away the turntables and replaced them with a different sound source, this spontaneity can still be maintained through the use of the effects. They are analogue, like the turntable and thus all parameters can only be adjusted on the fly...no programming. Whatever signal you put through the effect chain becomes something much deeper than hitting play and letting people listen to some predisposed set. Hell, I've done entire ambient sets by routing an A.M. talk radio through this stuff...the result is quite musical and vibrant and you can't get a much more mundane source signal =] But alas, I'm sorta stepping into the realm of live production vs. djing so I'm not sure what this has contributed to the debate (and yes, this is a great one!) GYS
RE: [313] Digital Jockey vs. Disc Jockey (was: Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?)
Just slap a UR sticker on the special control records and watch as everyone on the list drools over the new technology =] GYS It's pretty hard to explain quickly, but you get these special records that you put on any turntable... these records then send a signal to the computer which uses the signal to control the pitch, position, etc, of the mp3 or cd audio or whatever. You're still using vinyl, that's the cool thing. you're not just pushing buttons or whatever, you're playing records, but you're playing mp3s. here's an article: http://www.wirednews.com/news/culture/0,1284,18840,00.html - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?
funny how we got off on this foo foo tangent and no one is discussing what the product actually is or isn't. interesting that this was first announced in 1998: http://www.harmony-central.com/Newp/1998/FinalScratch.html http://www.harmony-central.com/Newp/WNAMM99/N2IT/FinalScratch-10.html http://www.n2it.net/ haven't found the actual Midem press release.. Tosh? still involves the tactile end of vinyl, but appears to go much further. c'mon people, do you really think hawtin and acquaviva would endorse (unofficially or not) a product that amounts to sitting behind your laptop? or that makes djing *less* of an art? most or all of the comments made by the list have been completely valid. but if the mechanics of djing got relatively simple (or more reliable), aside from all the other live-ish things that could then be done, what would remain the largest responsibility of the dj? PROGRAMMING. constructing on the fly a multiple-hour set that really communicates and captivates. that is the art form, and it's not going anywhere.
Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?
Please don't waste my time arguing practicalities like mp3s don't sound as good or computers crash! - and don't waste my time telling me vinyl Unfortunately I'm going to waste your time: MP3's really don't sound as good. Even when they are encoded at 256kBps. MP3 is, afterall, a compressed form of .wav, no matter how good the encoding is, it is still compressed. I heard Acquaviva use this technology on New Year's Eve, and there was a noticable difference (maybe only to the trained ear) between when he was mixing vinyl and anything from the computer. The very top and very bottom portions of the recording are lost to the compression method. Therefore, you lose a ton of the Bass. I would think that the bass would be the important part not to compress. No offense intended, but I disagree about the argument that MP3's sound the same as vinyl (especially on a large system). Cheers, Dennis From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: 313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM? Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 10:47:27 -0500 (EST) Yeah, I am on the artform side. I think it will be the demise of DJing the day that it becomes a machine-led thing. how is it any less of an artform when technology is involved? I think the real issue here is unwarranted nostalgia holding us back from a better experience. How can you confidently state that there's no art to mixing mp3s using finalscratch when you haven't even tried it, and most likely haven't even seen anyone else try it? What, just because it doesn't rely on a crappy, outdated, extremely inconvenient technology, it's not as good? It's not about finding song x on npaster vs finding song x on a record and which is more rewarding - of course it's more rewarding to find song x on vinyl. but try to think of the possibilities that digital mixing opens up - you could easily play your own songs, the ones you don't want to spend $50 getting an acetate cut, or even more to have it actually released. You could work in live elements, you could do effects, the creative control is only limited to what your computer can do. And remember, this system works WITH your turntables - you can still bring your records along and play them the same as you did before. You're not being asked to abandon vinyl here... just to accept the possibility that vinyl is not the end-all, be-all of mixed music. Please don't waste my time arguing practicalities like mp3s don't sound as good or computers crash! - and don't waste my time telling me vinyl is superior becuase it's what we've always used. So what? It's romantic notions like that that'll hold the music back and let it stagnate. Of course there's room to acknowledge the past, but there's also plenty of room to move forward... the problem with accepting new technology might be striking a balance between the two... but denying new technology because it's not what we've always used is not the solution. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?
c'mon people, do you really think hawtin and acquaviva would endorse (unofficially or not) a product that amounts to sitting behind your laptop? or that makes djing *less* of an art? Actually. Well I think again this comes back to how you define DJing and what you expect to experience. I think Hawtin places value purely on the sonic aspects, right, that could be why I never feel him as a punter. He doesn't have the physical presence of, say, Stacey Pullen, who you really feel, he communicates in a variety of ways. So I think it's quite possible that Hawtin could sit behind a laptop and if it were challenging enough technically (as I believe he would want to be) then sure he might endorse it. But it would lose me. It would be too clinical, too technical. I guess I've always loved RB/soul, so it could be that is why I value presence and performance and that kind of projection. It's not a technical thing.
Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?
What I am saying is that when an artist is executing their craft they are materializing their conceptual idea through expresion. they choose what others see or hear. That does not mean that every individual feels the same way as the artists does, but only that everyone is exposed to the artists output. then in turn every individual makes up their own mind as to what the artist is saying and is effected by that message. that is IMO why music is so amazing. One song can mean a million different things to a million differnent people even though they are listening to the same song peace mg darw_n [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/22/01 05:49PM Art in all forms is about expression. Expression by whom?? darw_n create, demonstrate, toneshift... search for djdarwin on napster www.sphereproductions.com www.mannequinodd.com www.mp3.com/darw_n - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Matthew Gerbasi |l| MediaVest Detroit |l| 248-458-8567|l| [EMAIL PROTECTED] aka [EMAIL PROTECTED] presently your future is history -- Basi
Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?
I can see why John Aquaviva uses this program.It was the booking agent for Tresor club, A. Oldham, and me...we jumped into a black stationwagon to pick up Aquaviva from the Berlin-Tegel airport during Love Parade weekend. He was to play that night at Tresor and he had a MOTHERLOAD of records with him. Like four crates, all piled up on the cart, so I can definitely see what he uses it. =) G l y p h In a message dated 1/22/01 8:47:07 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: on one hand, the relief of not carrying about 80+ extra lbs while traveling is understood BUT personally, I have to side with the artform arguement. Seeing a set being pieced together with records and the DJ making the set come together is part of the thrill and artform. It seems we're getting too comfy with this laptop thing- as in the same vein with live PAs. to compare it to art, lets say. its the difference between watching a painter mix the paints and seeing the painting come together with the brush strokes piecing together a visually pleasing result. or watching a painter taking already prepaired elements and just taping them properly to the canvas. blahblahblahitsmonday diana
Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?
getting off topic, and i honestly don't say this in some kind of bullsh*t i'm-from-detroit kinda way, but until you've seen rich at a Small Detroit Event, 5:00am, sweat pouring down the walls, no lights on, the whole room erupting, you haven't seen him. what he does at events around the world, that i've seen, is certainly great, but it's not the same. rightly so. true enough about the physicality of stacey (totally fun), and i know rich also has a more clinical side/reputation, so maybe what you say about the laptop is true. but having seen several plastikman live shows, i kinda doubt it. from what i can gather however, this is not a sit-behind-the-laptop proposition. and considering that rich has referred to this as the death of vinyl, i'll be really interested to see what happens. btw - none of this degrades the 'entertainment' (for lack of a better word) value of djs like stacey. i love to see stacey, derrick carter, claude.. people who really get physically into it. and it's always cracked me up how acquaviva can have the room going OFF and he looks like he's reading the newspaper... ;) --Original Message-- From: Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org Sent: January 22, 2001 7:16:07 PM GMT Subject: Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM? c'mon people, do you really think hawtin and acquaviva would endorse (unofficially or not) a product that amounts to sitting behind your laptop? or that makes djing *less* of an art? Actually. Well I think again this comes back to how you define DJing and what you expect to experience. I think Hawtin places value purely on the sonic aspects, right, that could be why I never feel him as a punter. He doesn't have the physical presence of, say, Stacey Pullen, who you really feel, he communicates in a variety of ways. So I think it's quite possible that Hawtin could sit behind a laptop and if it were challenging enough technically (as I believe he would want to be) then sure he might endorse it. But it would lose me. It would be too clinical, too technical. I guess I've always loved RB/soul, so it could be that is why I value presence and performance and that kind of projection. It's not a technical thing. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?
That could well be true. But I have spoken to people from Detroit who have said similiar things. I am not sure about the word entertainment, that is kinda reductive and dismissive, to me anyway. It's artistry but a different manifestation of it. getting off topic, and i honestly don't say this in some kind of bullsh*t i'm-from-detroit kinda way, but until you've seen rich at a Small Detroit Event, 5:00am, sweat pouring down the walls, no lights on, the whole room erupting, you haven't seen him. what he does at events around the world, that i've seen, is certainly great, but it's not the same. rightly so. true enough about the physicality of stacey (totally fun), and i know rich also has a more clinical side/reputation, so maybe what you say about the laptop is true. but having seen several plastikman live shows, i kinda doubt it. from what i can gather however, this is not a sit-behind-the-laptop proposition. and considering that rich has referred to this as the death of vinyl, i'll be really interested to see what happens. btw - none of this degrades the 'entertainment' (for lack of a better word) value of djs like stacey. i love to see stacey, derrick carter, claude.. people who really get physically into it. and it's always cracked me up how acquaviva can have the room going OFF and he looks like he's reading the newspaper... ;)
Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?
agreed. should have chosen a different word... --Original Message-- From: Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org Sent: January 22, 2001 8:19:16 PM GMT Subject: Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM? That could well be true. But I have spoken to people from Detroit who have said similiar things. I am not sure about the word entertainment, that is kinda reductive and dismissive, to me anyway. It's artistry but a different manifestation of it. getting off topic, and i honestly don't say this in some kind of bullsh*t i'm-from-detroit kinda way, but until you've seen rich at a Small Detroit Event, 5:00am, sweat pouring down the walls, no lights on, the whole room erupting, you haven't seen him. what he does at events around the world, that i've seen, is certainly great, but it's not the same. rightly so. true enough about the physicality of stacey (totally fun), and i know rich also has a more clinical side/reputation, so maybe what you say about the laptop is true. but having seen several plastikman live shows, i kinda doubt it. from what i can gather however, this is not a sit-behind-the-laptop proposition. and considering that rich has referred to this as the death of vinyl, i'll be really interested to see what happens. btw - none of this degrades the 'entertainment' (for lack of a better word) value of djs like stacey. i love to see stacey, derrick carter, claude.. people who really get physically into it. and it's always cracked me up how acquaviva can have the room going OFF and he looks like he's reading the newspaper... ;) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?
humans by nature resist change. they would rather stick to something that feels familiar. Especially if it comes to things that are material. Or a way of keeping time. people become very defensive when it comes to change. I am not saying that this MP3 thing is good or bad. I don't know since my only exposure to it is through this meduim. I don't think that people will take kindly to it, especially the old schoolers. The people at +8 are always looking for new and exciting things. I believe that this is something that may get dropped rather quickly by Richie. As for John, I don't know. I really don't know much about the guy other then the fact that he has one of the largest record collections of anyone i have ever heard of. I don't think that someone like him would have their performance hurt by something like this. I believe that he has such a vast knowlege of music and he knows how to read a crowd well enough to keep spontanaity in his sets. I am sure his computer has so many tracks loaded into it that he could play a different set every night and not repeat a track for a couple of years (slight exaggeration)...But I don't think that someone like Derrick May would resort to this. He is a purist. plain and simple. and i think all purists stick to what they know. The people who came up with this idea are not evil for wanting change, they just had an idea and want it to work. No one should be angry with the people who think change is a good thing. sometimes it is. but in my eyes today, i can't see this working. the way computer technology has been going for the past 5 years MP3's will become outdated in the next 2 years. there will be a new file format and it will have DVD quality sound. and no one will want to use the present format anymore. vinyl has stood the test of time, and it isn't going to disappear anytime soon. JEFF! -Original Message- From: Nick Walsh [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 4:54 AM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM? The smell of brand new vinyl out of the sleeve, the crackle of the record under the needle... there's something spiritual and special about vinyl that no other media can replicate... Old vinyl especially. I don't want your stupid toy... Who cares about the future... time and forces move around and come back on themselves... just because something is new, doesn't make it good...
RE: [313] Digital Jockey vs. Disc Jockey (was: Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?)
how??? KISS has a great presence...why not ask them. its all about your personality. as long as you acknowlege people and don't sit there and stare at a comuter screen all night. just like I don't like watching DJ's that stare at thier records all night. but then again, not everyone can be as entertaining as T-1000. JEFF! -Original Message- From: Cyclone Wehner [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:18 AM To: 313 Detroit Subject: Re: [313] Digital Jockey vs. Disc Jockey (was: Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?) I totally agree, but what I'm saying is that you can have presence with equipment other than turntables. How? It would have to be something that demands some kind of physicality. (Great debate by the way.) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?
Sorry my friend :0 expression is to art what O2 is for fire etc etc If you don't express, nothing will come out in any form unless you also call that a expression but then again to prove there is white swan, you have to prove there is black one too anyway just old 2 liner :0 n.v. finding forester :0)) good one - Original Message - From: JARED WILSON [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 4:34 PM Subject: Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM? Art in all forms is about expression. I would have to disagree. That is a very modernistic view of art. Jared Wilson FTM Records From: Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM? Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 03:01:17 +1100 Very nicely stated. Art in all forms is about expression. Moods emotions that an artform creates are different in each individual. Regardless of what the means are that are used to reach the musical end. what is created is what matters. (plagerisism aside) technological advancement is not the problem. The problem starts when quality and authentisity are compromised for laziness and lack of skill.IMO - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [313] Future of DJ'ing, also anyone at MIDEM?
there will be a new file format and it will have DVD quality sound. DIVX;), MPEG7?? darw_n create, demonstrate, toneshift... search for djdarwin on napster www.sphereproductions.com www.mannequinodd.com www.mp3.com/darw_n
