RE: [313] DEMF & 'Hurt Feelings'
From: "detroit science" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: RE: [313] DEMF & 'Hurt Feelings' Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 03:04:10 EDT lordy lordy. be thankful that you DON'T know wassup in this lovely world called clubland. you'd prolly go nuts. any rich ppl out there that wanna but me a club and give me shitload of money to book artists only with integrity and true love of the music? Right on, Miss Linda. At the moment, running a club in the Detroit area seems more like teaching 6th Grade. The artists we want don't bring in crowds but the artists who do aren't always the ones we want...but have to be brought in to get $$$ so we can afford the artists we want...blah blah blahvery vicious circle. Hopefully the day will come that Bill Gates bankrolls us all and doesn't want ANY creative control... Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
RE: [313] DEMF & 'Hurt Feelings'
i say the 313 gets together and opens our own club. that way we can be the >hot club owners who take over the festival after he gets sick of it. or >maybe we can leave it up to linda, who definately knows wassup in the club >life... lordy lordy. be thankful that you DON'T know wassup in this lovely world called clubland. you'd prolly go nuts. any rich ppl out there that wanna but me a club and give me shitload of money to book artists only with integrity and true love of the music? didn't think so. of course, the next best thing would be to import me an educated, clubgoing crowd so that i wouldn't ever have to be fiscally responsible to a bottom line. let me tell you one of linda g's rules of life: "to get the 20% you want, you have to deal with 80% bullshit." the 80/20 rule applies to just about everything. i had to give up my dream booking last year because i couldn't even justify it to myself, much less motor. i got thomas heckman to agree to come over and do a live pa, which i think that i prolly would have died happily after. but, i couldn't headline it and be guaranteed a crowd. nor could i tag it onto a night along with a dj that would be a guaranteed draw because the additional cost couldn't be justified. plus, the owners of motor didn't know who he was so if they didn't know... you get the idea? it SUCKS. ok, i'll stop this minor rant and get outta the club for the night... by the way where's my t-shirt linda??? ya gotta come and gettit. take care, linda g mailing list http://www.onelist.com/community/detroitscience science office 313-534-7420 science fax 313-534-5155 mobile 313-790-7300 pager 800-200-5176 www.detroitscience.com Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
RE: [313] DEMF & 'Hurt Feelings'
i say the 313 gets together and opens our own club. that way we can be the hot club owners who take over the festival after he gets sick of it. or maybe we can leave it up to linda, who definately knows wassup in the club life...by the way where's my t-shirt linda??? jeff "Thou Shalt Remember the Funk and Keep It Holy" -George Clinton > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 6:32 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org > Subject: Re: [313] DEMF & 'Hurt Feelings' > say, after carl gets sick of doing the festival and some chump who just happens to be running a hot club at the time takes over and books a bunch of trance dj's. that would be real shitty! >
RE: [313] DEMF & 'Hurt Feelings'
...>Also, for Mr. Superstar DJ his own self, in regards to this album of yours which is selling like hotcakes in Europe, that continent's collective dodgy taste in music just demonstrates how shit your tunes >are, Europe? shit taste in music? well which continent was it ignored techno for over a decade? Europe produces a wealth of shit music...granted, so does America. But it was the interest of europeans which gave a platform to many of Detroit's artists during the late eighties and early nineties. Whatever you think of the work on Warp, Disko B, Hybrid, F-Communications, Soma, Djax, etc. (need I go on...) don't be stupid enough to think that the music tastes of hundreds of millions of people can be summed up by what you've read in magazines (because if you have been here, you've obviously been going to the wrong places). That is the real mark of a pedestrian music consumer... Seth The Electric Press Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: [313] DEMF & 'Hurt Feelings'
i only brought up the gary chandler point because of the comment made that they only booked people that move things forward. to be honest, from what i understand there was a process to getting booked that EVERYONE had to follow. i'm sure alan will play next year. not everyone can play every year. it is not that big of a deal. the whole original reply to alans statement really didn't bother me that much because he was off on a lot of things. it is really none of my business anyway. that is why i made 1 comment to play devils advocate. anyway, there are plent of more festivals to go. i hope that one day Paul Okenfold doesn't play in the future. say, after carl gets sick of doing the festival and some chump who just happens to be running a hot club at the time takes over and books a bunch of trance dj's. that would be real shitty! -craig-
Re: [313] DEMF & 'Hurt Feelings'
I would say it IS our right to question things, but attitude and respect make all the difference. After all, we are all *fans* of this music, like KDJ (if you caught his comment on stage yesterday), and fans always have opinions about everything, but when the time comes they support the home team come what may. phred
Re: [313] DEMF & 'Hurt Feelings'
why is it people insist on reading between the lines and looking for a deeper meaning behind everything? Alan himself says he's been booked solid for that weekend since February. The Festival wasnt even announced until April. Dont look for ulterior motives or sinister plots where there is none. Why try to second guess decisions made regarding lineup? none of us can claim to know what Carl was thinking when he made his selections. He's stated himself that there were artists that he wanted to include but could not for various reasons. It's not our place to question it. Isnt that enough? sean Phonopsia wrote: > This discussion (which notably Alan did not begin on this list) reminds me > very much of March Madness, when inevitably there is one team that should > have made the cut, but didn't. I would've loved to see Alan again, this time > in Detroit, but it's not for us to decide who should/should not have been > included in the lineup. I think on the whole, Carl did a better job of > including musical diversity and pulling the event off without a hitch than > anyone could have possibly expected. I was quite pleased with the results - > to say the least. > > In Carl's defense, there was a notable absense of harder techno, ala T1000, > excluding the last night on the main stage. The lineup seemed to be > generally pushed in the deeper direction, perhaps because the people who > have no exposure to techno would be more afraid of it? > > Tristan > == > PHONOPSIA<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Lounge/5102/index.htm > "FrogboyMCI" on AOL Instant Messenger > > New mix, "Propper Techno" and new Album, "Québécois", online now. > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- sean deason matrix records p.o. box 343 dearborn, mi 48121-0343 ph/fax: 313.582.3410 cell: 313.522.3505 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] profile: seandeason.metrotimes.com
Re: [313] DEMF & 'Hurt Feelings'
This discussion (which notably Alan did not begin on this list) reminds me very much of March Madness, when inevitably there is one team that should have made the cut, but didn't. I would've loved to see Alan again, this time in Detroit, but it's not for us to decide who should/should not have been included in the lineup. I think on the whole, Carl did a better job of including musical diversity and pulling the event off without a hitch than anyone could have possibly expected. I was quite pleased with the results - to say the least. In Carl's defense, there was a notable absense of harder techno, ala T1000, excluding the last night on the main stage. The lineup seemed to be generally pushed in the deeper direction, perhaps because the people who have no exposure to techno would be more afraid of it? Tristan == PHONOPSIA<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Lounge/5102/index.htm "FrogboyMCI" on AOL Instant Messenger New mix, "Propper Techno" and new Album, "Québécois", online now. __ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com
RE: [313] DEMF & 'Hurt Feelings'
From: Kent williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: 313@hyperreal.org, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>On Sun, 28 May 2000, stephen wrote:
>> DJT1000 has become somewhat of a controversial figure in Detroit, very
>> opinionated, not afraid to speak his mind. I'm sure he has burned a
>> few bridges and stepped on peoples tows in the process and Carl Craig
> ^-->toes
>> being one of them.
>> And lets face it, Alan Oldman does not carry the same stature he once
>> had during the techno glory days with his Fast Forward radio show.
>
>Not like I'm calling you out on this one or anything, but do you know
>either of these men personally, or have any first hand knowledge of
>the truth of anything you've written above?
>
>Sometimes in life I think you'll find you learn a lot by keeping
>your mind open, your eyes open, and your mouth shut, until you got
>something to say...
Good job of kissing ass, Slick, not to mention furthering the innate
parochialism and pedestal-building in your "scene". Considering your daddy
T1000's inane stance on the difficulty of fathoming someone gaining interest
in techno from a hip-hop background (like many people who are true music
lovers rather than pedestrian music consumers, I personally got into both at
the same time), you would both do well to follow the advice contained in
your last sentence (unless you really are the yipping poodle that you seem
to be). Also, for Mr. Superstar DJ his own self, in regards to this album
of yours which is selling like hotcakes in Europe, that continent's
collective dodgy taste in music just demonstrates how shit your tunes are,
and my friend if sufficiently irritated by that album ("Nuttin' but Presets"
I believe it's called...sounds like it anyways) that he wants him money
back. There is a definite difference between popular music and good music.
Keep your cookie cutters out of the studio and leave the making of music to
those who can. Fucking nerds...
Ktothak
Re: [313] DEMF & 'Hurt Feelings'
> Alan > > I think the reason you haven't been asked to play is because you don't play > what the rest of Detroit is into anymore. That is just fucking bullshit, dude. So going by that logic, since I don't wear Hello Kitty and Ecko Unlimited - or whatever it is - gear I shouldn't be a fan? ;) One thing that Detroit has always had going for it [listen] is "innovation". I don't care if you wrote this post when you were drunk or not, listen to me, this is a flame. Detroit has always gotten the short end of the stick with regards to what the masses are generally exposed to day in and day out. Well this festival was during the day, and I saw all ages, some of them hearing it probably the very first time, some of whom really thought it was cool. People are coming around to it. I'm only tangenting on your point a little.. I spoke to people at random who looked like your average Joe or who I had never seen at a club or anything, and they totally were in awe. Remember when you were at your first underground party? I do. That's what makes this event so special, for me, because I get to see people who were in my spot once (freaking) and this time there is alot more people. I even spoke to the girl who was homecoming queen at my high school who turned out and was saying in summary, 'where has this been all my life?' and she defines the essence of popularity. ..Fuck cliques, fuck egos, fuck politics, Detroit artists are originals. Grass roots. Don't fuck with Detroit. Alan does what he enjoys and stays true to himself and his ideals. The fight is not over, Detroit. C'mon let's come together and win this war. I can't believe I'm yelling and screaming these things: I just got back from this beautiful festival and I thought it was already won, and then I read these emails. Listen man you can't just play follow the leader in this city and gain any permanent notoriety. > Though I've never heard a set I > own a few of your records, which are solid, and have an indication of what > you play from the comments you've made on this list. You're from Scotland, right? Have you ever even been to Detroit? I can't claim to know Carl's reasonings or intentions for doing the festival the way he did, but if you want to know the current state of affairs in Detroiters' ears it's rap and booty. Both of which solid foundations of their own but a far cry from any electronic musician's output like Alan, from the D. > Hard and minimal is my > guess, the way Detroit used to do it, and from all reports mixed up in > inspirational style. But with the exception of Hawtin, Mills and yourself > (and maybe Rolando), it doesn't seem to me that that's what Detoit musicians > are into anymore. Though it's not necessarily my favorite type of music, hard-and-minimal, as you imply above definitely has a presence in the D--that was my point. Alan is one of the stalwarts of this blend of sinister funk here, if not the only one still playing it dutifully. People from other cities and countries come here and look at the city and want to play hard--this is why. I mean c'mon, you take one look at our city today and you think if a jackhammer could speak it would. You're failing to recognize the impact of this genre. Maybe heavy metal is more your bag in this setting? The biggest point is that all environments affect people in different ways, and it's all legitimate, that's because we're all human--perfect creatures by design--that's my opinion... Alan Oldham should have played the DEMF because he has represented Detroit techno since the third wave. And Jay Denham should have played, too, but that's all I'm gonna say and keep it private if you want more thoughts. Plain and simple, they were dissed. > I think Detroit and I think Carl Craig, Moodyman and Theo Parrish. I think > Moods and Grooves and Theorem. All that stuff is truly getting attention now but all I'm saying is the festival should have accomodated for all the creators. > They're the ones getting attention for moving stuff forward. You sound like one of those people who only spins the shit in the dance room top 10. I don't like you. > I like the Detroit sound you helped to pioneer. But I think somewhere it got > stuck in a groove. And the rest of Detroit kept moving on. I can't believe how rude you are! > I still like what you're doing, and I think lots of Europe like it too. I > just don't think that your lack of invitation is a personal thing: it's more > that your sound no longer represents present day Detroit. I take that back. I can't believe how ignorant you are. You should have been at the show. If Hawtin's or Fanon Flowers's or even Shake's sets were any indication, techno is here to stay!! > I'm keen to hear how you (very very lucky) people at DEMF sum up the Detroit > sound circa 2000. > > Cheers > > Rol Soul city. All creeds. Peace, Horsepower
Re: [313] DEMF & 'Hurt Feelings'
nope it just has to do with expectations And that's always been a nice *breakup* thingy (I always love those stories, they may not be objective in some ways but it creates a better view on Detroit) I think Carl wants to push Alan further to see what he can come up next year (like his tresor release wich was a good step) but once again that are my views on the story greetz, Alfterglow - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <313@hyperreal.org> Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2000 8:52 PM Subject: Re: [313] DEMF & 'Hurt Feelings' > In a message dated 5/27/00 12:17:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > 313@hyperreal.org > > Don't you think it's more politics than style? > > Miles > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com
Re: [313] DEMF & 'Hurt Feelings'
Alan I wrote that first post when drunk and it's a little over-the-top opinionated, and yes, coloured by the fact I made assumptions about what you play when I haven't heard you play (which I will when I get the chance because I've only heard good things). I stand by the main thrust of the post though, which is that the sound now associated with Detroit has changed substantially. You acknowledge that when you say "if some of the stuff I've been hearing is present-day Detroit, I'll stay in the past with the old Derrick May/Juan Atkins/Mad Mike/Jeff Mills blueprint, thanks". That's what I was getting at; trying to provoke discussion, I guess, in the light of all that's happening at DEMF. No slight was intented when I made the comment that musically you seem more aligned with Europeans like Beyer and Carola (I've heard both and they've both been fucking excellent) than the current wave (fourth?) of Detroit producers. So *is* there such a thing as a Detroit sound anymore? Anyhow, I'll be quiet now: my posts hang like dark clouds in the sunny vibes of DEMF. Cheers Rol Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
RE: [313] DEMF & 'Hurt Feelings'
On Sun, 28 May 2000, stephen wrote: > DJT1000 has become somewhat of a controversial figure in Detroit, very > opinionated, not afraid to speak his mind. I'm sure he has burned a > few bridges and stepped on peoples tows in the process and Carl Craig ^-->toes > being one of them. > And lets face it, Alan Oldman does not carry the same stature he once > had during the techno glory days with his Fast Forward radio show. Not like I'm calling you out on this one or anything, but do you know either of these men personally, or have any first hand knowledge of the truth of anything you've written above? Sometimes in life I think you'll find you learn a lot by keeping your mind open, your eyes open, and your mouth shut, until you got something to say...
Re: [313] DEMF & 'Hurt Feelings'
In a message dated 5/27/2000 9:16:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << Alan I think the reason you haven't been asked to play is because you don't play what the rest of Detroit is into anymore. Though I've never heard a set I own a few of your records, which are solid, and have an indication of what you play from the comments you've made on this list. Hard and minimal is my guess, the way Detroit used to do it, and from all reports mixed up in inspirational style. But with the exception of Hawtin, Mills and yourself (and maybe Rolando), it doesn't seem to me that that's what Detoit musicians are into anymore. First of all, hear a set before you judge, please. Secondly, I really don't care what Detroit musicians are into. It's the kids that come out to dance and buy my records/comics/whatever that I care about pleasing. A very good friend of mine whose name you would know cared a little too much about what his fellow Detroit musicians thought of his work. As a result, he's just now getting the confidence and respect he deserves, even though he was around since the VERY beginning ! I think Detroit and I think Carl Craig, Moodyman and Theo Parrish. I think Moods and Grooves and Theorem. They're the ones getting attention for moving stuff forward. If you say so. That's the beauty of Detroit music. There's something for everybody. I'll stick to what I can play out in a set, personally. I like the Detroit sound you helped to pioneer. But I think somewhere it got stuck in a groove. And the rest of Detroit kept moving on. Except for the 900 people who came to hear me on 3/31/00 at Motor. Or the several thousand who bought "Progress". I still like what you're doing, and I think lots of Europe like it too. Hmmm, I only get to Europe once a year, but I play the US every weekend. Even now, I'm in Philly. (11, 000 people at the biggest East Coast event of the year AND I got to meet/hear the AMAZING Marco Carola !) I just don't think that your lack of invitation is a personal thing: it's more that your sound no longer represents present day Detroit. You really wouldn't know that, would you ? And if some of the stuff I've been hearing is present-day Detroit, I'll stay in the past with the old Derrick May/Juan Atkins/Mad Mike/Jeff Mills blueprint, thanks. I'm keen to hear how you (very very lucky) people at DEMF sum up the Detroit sound circa 2000. Cheers Rol >> Alan
RE: [313] DEMF & 'Hurt Feelings'
>This was fun ! I'm gonna have to write a book. I've got dirt on everybody. If >the above is any indication, it will be the anti-"Techno Rebels". Slash and >burn politics. Hey, Tim Barr, wanna help write it ? I think it was a public relations move on Carl Craig's part not to include DJT1000 in the DEMF line up. DJT1000 has become somewhat of a controversial figure in Detroit, very opinionated, not afraid to speak his mind. I'm sure he has burned a few bridges and stepped on peoples tows in the process and Carl Craig being one of them. And lets face it, Alan Oldman does not carry the same stature he once had during the techno glory days with his Fast Forward radio show. Remember "Techno" the old sound of Detroit? Ask Carl Craig what he thinks about techno. Times have changed, you either go with the flow or you get left behind. stephen.
RE: [313] DEMF & 'Hurt Feelings'
Rol I don't like Mills new sound.I much prefer the May/Atkins stuff. If your characterization of Alan is correct--and though I know Alan through his work on FAST FORWARD I haven't heard his stuff--then I probably wouldn't want to hear it at a gig necessarily. But with that said, I think Alan is correct to critique Carl for not inviting him on stage. Alan is old schooland he should've been there. The fact that someone tried to EXPLAIN to him--presumably without Alan asking him to--why Alan got dicked is a sign to me that at least SOMEONE recognized that what happened was wrong. It doesn't matter whether Alan's music fits in with May, Atkins, or even someone like Parrish. It is what it isand it IS detroit. This does diminish the power of the DEMFthough to be honest I JUST got back for the night, and it was still as beautiful as a newborn babe. maybe more on this later peace lks --- Lester Kenyatta Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] Assistant Professor, Political Science Washington University at St. Louis "Strive for excellence in all you do, that no fault may be found in your character" ---
Re: [313] DEMF & 'Hurt Feelings'
>Frankly, I'd rather not see a lot of speculation about who is >playing at DEMF and why appearing on this list. I think these are wise words, me. Carl is to be commended for going out on a limb and doing it. If I were from Detroit I'd be really proud of him. Obviously the first time you do anything is a learning experience. Maybe it's not personal at all, maybe it's not political. Only two people know for sure. C
RE: [313] DEMF & 'Hurt Feelings'
My post has been interpreted as an attack on Alan Oldham, which I didn't mean it to be (the 'stuck in a groove' comment is regrettable). I read Alan's manifesto and I posted in the same straight style he used. (I trust a big shoot-from-the-hip man like Alan will not be offended by the small words of a small Scot like myself). I just wanted to open discussion on what Detroit means now as a sound. The subsequent posts have been unanimous in their attack on me, saying Detroit means all things and nothing in particular (a broad chuch), and Alan is as much a part of it as anyone else. But it didn't used to be like that. Detroit used to mean something much more precise (and Alan was definitely a part of that). That's why we're all on this list, right? We all know 'Detroit' refers (or at least used to refer) to something in music, even if we can't say exactly what that is. It just seems to me that Alan is now closer to present day Europe than he is to present day Detroit (musically speaking, and I don't see that as an insult. I remember him posting something to that effect a few months ago). And with the DEMF happening it's as good a time as any to discuss what exactly it is that Detroit means right now. If it means anything at all. But what do I know... Rol Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
RE: [313] DEMF & 'Hurt Feelings'
Frankly, I'd rather not see a lot of speculation about who is playing at DEMF and why appearing on this list. Those who know, know what the reasons are and have little to do with the speculation here. I carry around an old rule of thumb from my Deadhead days that helps in situations like this: believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear. At the same time, I applaud AO for stepping up and putting out his perspective in the open, instead of veiling it behind insinuations or chatter. That cuts out a great deal of the "who said what about who" that drags everything down to the level of gossip and reprisal. The T-shirt on sale today said it best: "I play music, not politics." The politics is unavoidable but the music is what is real here. And AO is not the only renowned producer, composer and DJ who is not on the bill this time. May I point out someone equally known for moving the "abstract" sound forward is also not scheduled. The fact of the matter is, no schedule is perfect, and previous history, scheduling, marketing and many other factors play a role. Finally, let's lay to rest the notion that Detroit is defined by one kind of sound or has laid any of the valid ones to rest, whether it's proper bangin' techno or the Philly soul that echoes so strongly in what Theo Parrish is doing. Detroit is not "about" techno or any flavor thereof. It's not "about" hip hop. I will even venture to say -- check me if I'm wrong -- that it's not "about" juggalos. Detroit *is* about music. Isn't that enough? phred
RE: [313] DEMF & 'Hurt Feelings'
Alright I couldn't let this one slip by. As I'm listening to D.Wynn via real audio at the DEMF, I read this email. First off, for what ever reasons, AO is not playing the DEMF. Fine, but to say Alan Oldham got stuck in a groove? And the rest of Detroit moved on? Whew! You are reaching. You have never seen the guy spin! This is not a flame by any means, but just something that needs to be spoke on. I think Alan's style has progressed considerably since his generator days. Some of his latest releases have been some of his best work. I think Alan explored other areas of music on his records. Check out Enginefloatreactor- no banging/minimal techno there. Derrick May is spinning right? Derrick is dope as hell but when was the last time he put out a record? Look at those people you listed as who are the ones who are getting the attention. Each one has their own sound. Theorem is completely different from Theo Parrish, but their sound still has soul to it. That's what makes Detroit.Hard and minimal is not outdated. I think it still has so much more to be explored. It's just that other forms of music are what's hot and that's cool (and this trance phenomena is not one of them). I have heard many Theo Parrish records, seen the guy spin many times, but I don't think he is pushing the envelope. His stuff sounds like many other house producers. It's all what you like and what you're into. I think we should all just be happy that someone had the balls to attempt this in Detroit. Much respect to Carl Craig and the rest of the organizers. Peace. Wishing his was at the DEMF but watching/listening via real audio, Ethan -Original Message- From: rol leider [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2000 9:16 AM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: RE: [313] DEMF & 'Hurt Feelings' Alan I think the reason you haven't been asked to play is because you don't play what the rest of Detroit is into anymore. Though I've never heard a set I own a few of your records, which are solid, and have an indication of what you play from the comments you've made on this list. Hard and minimal is my guess, the way Detroit used to do it, and from all reports mixed up in inspirational style. But with the exception of Hawtin, Mills and yourself (and maybe Rolando), it doesn't seem to me that that's what Detoit musicians are into anymore. I think Detroit and I think Carl Craig, Moodyman and Theo Parrish. I think Moods and Grooves and Theorem. They're the ones getting attention for moving stuff forward. I like the Detroit sound you helped to pioneer. But I think somewhere it got stuck in a groove. And the rest of Detroit kept moving on. I still like what you're doing, and I think lots of Europe like it too. I just don't think that your lack of invitation is a personal thing: it's more that your sound no longer represents present day Detroit. I'm keen to hear how you (very very lucky) people at DEMF sum up the Detroit sound circa 2000. Cheers Rol Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313] DEMF & 'Hurt Feelings'
There is no justification for not including in this festival someone who has played such a huge role in the history of electronic music in Detroit. Especially in light of some of the dj's booked. Politics suck and in this case they're robbing the festival attendees of a chance to see this great producer and dj. Everyone I know is suprised and semi-stupified that he was not asked to participate. Like someone said in a previous post, only Carl knows why. Therefore, a further discussion on this is somewhat futile. Kevin At 04:15 PM 05/27/2000 GMT, rol leider wrote: >Alan > >I think the reason you haven't been asked to play is because you don't play >what the rest of Detroit is into anymore. Though I've never heard a set I >own a few of your records, which are solid, and have an indication of what >you play from the comments you've made on this list. Hard and minimal is my >guess, the way Detroit used to do it, and from all reports mixed up in >inspirational style. But with the exception of Hawtin, Mills and yourself >(and maybe Rolando), it doesn't seem to me that that's what Detoit musicians >are into anymore. I think Detroit and I think Carl Craig, Moodyman and Theo >Parrish. I think Moods and Grooves and Theorem. They're the ones getting >attention for moving stuff forward. I like the Detroit sound you helped to >pioneer. But I think somewhere it got stuck in a groove. And the rest of >Detroit kept moving on. > >I still like what you're doing, and I think lots of Europe like it too. I >just don't think that your lack of invitation is a personal thing: it's more >that your sound no longer represents present day Detroit. > >I'm keen to hear how you (very very lucky) people at DEMF sum up the Detroit >sound circa 2000. > >Cheers > >Rol > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > >- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >
Re: [313] DEMF & 'Hurt Feelings'
In a message dated 5/27/00 12:17:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > 313@hyperreal.org Don't you think it's more politics than style? Miles
Re: [313] DEMF & 'Hurt Feelings'
There's about 100 arguable, semi-ridiculous points in that original posting. The loudest one seems to be: if you've never heard Alan you really can't make all these subjective assumptions about what he does and doesn't play - even if you have snippets of quotes from Alan himself and the sounds of his production to go by. Never mind the fact that there are people (at least one person..) on the bill who *do* usually play proto-european mega banging techno. In fact, I think he's closing out the festival. However, like Alan, this person can play everythying and does play everything - extremely well. And they are both Detroit icons. The fact of the matter is that Alan has been around for a long time, and has been a positive contributor to Techno (let's leave out the geography for a moment) for an equally long time. We'll never know why he wasn't included in this particular DEMF unless Carl (or whomever) decides to come out and actually tell us. Good or bad, there could be dozens of reasons. Separately, be glad there is a DEMF at all. I realize many people around the world do have an idea of what it's been like there for the last 15 years, but unless you lived there, you'll never fully understand: this is virtually a miracle. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 313@hyperreal.org <313@hyperreal.org> Date: Saturday, May 27, 2000 1:28 PM Subject: RE: [313] DEMF & 'Hurt Feelings' >if they were booking dj's that move stuff forward. then, explain to me why gary chandler has two sets. i'm not dissing the mans skills, but tell me how booty music moves anything forward. > > > > >In a message dated Sat, 27 May 2000 12:16:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "rol leider" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > ><< Alan > >I think the reason you haven't been asked to play is because you don't play >what the rest of Detroit is into anymore. Though I've never heard a set I >own a few of your records, which are solid, and have an indication of what >you play from the comments you've made on this list. Hard and minimal is my >guess, the way Detroit used to do it, and from all reports mixed up in >inspirational style. But with the exception of Hawtin, Mills and yourself >(and maybe Rolando), it doesn't seem to me that that's what Detoit musicians >are into anymore. I think Detroit and I think Carl Craig, Moodyman and Theo >Parrish. I think Moods and Grooves and Theorem. They're the ones getting >attention for moving stuff forward. I like the Detroit sound you helped to >pioneer. But I think somewhere it got stuck in a groove. And the rest of >Detroit kept moving on. > >I still like what you're doing, and I think lots of Europe like it too. I >just don't think that your lack of invitation is a personal thing: it's more >that your sound no longer represents present day Detroit. > >I'm keen to hear how you (very very lucky) people at DEMF sum up the Detroit >sound circa 2000. > >Cheers > >Rol
Re: [313] DEMF & 'Hurt Feelings'
In a message dated 5/27/00 11:16:54 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But with the exception of Hawtin, Mills and yourself > >(and maybe Rolando), it doesn't seem to me that that's what Detoit musicians > >are into anymore. I think Detroit and I think Carl Craig, Moodyman and >Theo >Parrish. I think Moods and Grooves and Theorem. They're the ones getting > >attention for moving stuff forward. I like the Detroit sound you helped >to >pioneer. But I think somewhere it got stuck in a groove. And the rest of > >Detroit kept moving on. > I can honestly say I was thinking the same thing but how can one be really sure that the rest of detroit is moving on and alan/those not invited isn't? didn't some say awhile back on this list that there isn't really anything innovative coming out of detroit? isn't there a variety of styles coming out of detroit? if there is, shouldn't they all be represented. just because the rest of detroit isn't into what alan is making, does it mean it should be overlooked? they even have hip hop and ghetto tech covered, for christ's sake. i believe alan is one of few still representing this particular "hard-rockin' the crowd-techno sound" and if you heard "Progress" on Tresor Records you will know that he has touched other types of styles. i recommend that you stay tuned to what he is doing because the best has yet to come. all i'm saying is, since this was the first "Detroit" electronic music festival, wouldn't it be obvious to "get all the real gunners out to represent"? even if they can't make it for some reason, shouldn't they be asked anyway out of common courtesy and respect? there are indeed individuals out there who are also doing music, making strides, and continue to contribute to this detroit techno/electronic legacy besides the usual suspects. it definitely is a sad day that politics and "not doing the right thing" hinders what's obviously important which is to present ALL of what detroit has to offer to the global music community, right from the getgo. No Excuses! Now, for those who go to this without knowing too much or anything about detroit's musical contribution will not get a full representation. peace out. _g l y p h_ "But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong." --Dennis Miller
RE: [313] DEMF & 'Hurt Feelings'
if they were booking dj's that move stuff forward. then, explain to me why gary chandler has two sets. i'm not dissing the mans skills, but tell me how booty music moves anything forward. In a message dated Sat, 27 May 2000 12:16:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "rol leider" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: << Alan I think the reason you haven't been asked to play is because you don't play what the rest of Detroit is into anymore. Though I've never heard a set I own a few of your records, which are solid, and have an indication of what you play from the comments you've made on this list. Hard and minimal is my guess, the way Detroit used to do it, and from all reports mixed up in inspirational style. But with the exception of Hawtin, Mills and yourself (and maybe Rolando), it doesn't seem to me that that's what Detoit musicians are into anymore. I think Detroit and I think Carl Craig, Moodyman and Theo Parrish. I think Moods and Grooves and Theorem. They're the ones getting attention for moving stuff forward. I like the Detroit sound you helped to pioneer. But I think somewhere it got stuck in a groove. And the rest of Detroit kept moving on. I still like what you're doing, and I think lots of Europe like it too. I just don't think that your lack of invitation is a personal thing: it's more that your sound no longer represents present day Detroit. I'm keen to hear how you (very very lucky) people at DEMF sum up the Detroit sound circa 2000. Cheers Rol Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>
Re: [313] DEMF & 'Hurt Feelings'
>I think the reason you haven't been asked to play is because you don't play >what the rest of Detroit is into anymore. And what is the rest of Detroit (ie the electronic music community) into? It sounds remarkably diverse to me! It's defined more by its qualities - funk and soul and individualism - than a specific sound? There are many sounds, at any rate. Remember the minimal sound that European techno is now known for has its roots in what Alan, UR, Jeff, Rob were doing. Though I've never heard a set I >own a few of your records, which are solid, and have an indication of what >you play from the comments you've made on this list. Hard and minimal is my >guess, the way Detroit used to do it, and from all reports mixed up in >inspirational style. But with the exception of Hawtin, Mills and yourself >(and maybe Rolando), it doesn't seem to me that that's what Detoit musicians >are into anymore. You can't assume that just because person A doesn't play what person B does doesn't mean they don't like it. > I like the Detroit sound you helped to >pioneer. But I think somewhere it got stuck in a groove. And the rest of >Detroit kept moving on. I disagree, people just go down their own paths. It's called artistry! >I still like what you're doing, and I think lots of Europe like it too. I >just don't think that your lack of invitation is a personal thing: it's more >that your sound no longer represents present day Detroit. I think Alan does more gigs in the US than many of his peers, so that's not it. >I'm keen to hear how you (very very lucky) people at DEMF sum up the Detroit >sound circa 2000. I guess we're lucky in Australia as the laws are less rigid. You can have parties that go all hours, virtually. That way you could have everyone play. I think this is a fantastic event (I've been reading all the reports in the Detroit Free Press Online) and I would urge the organisers to consider doing more press overseas in future years to really raise its international profile. I, for one, would be happy to co-ordinate and pay for interview calls and things so it didn't put anyone out or cost anyone anything. There is considerable interest in Australia (which let's face it is about as far away from Detroit as you can get). I understand that first and foremost the event is for the people in Detroit and that's wonderful but getting people from overseas brings in revenue to the city. Also it may mean that newer talent gets exposure to international promoters who would then be happy to tour them.
RE: [313] DEMF & 'Hurt Feelings'
Alan I think the reason you haven't been asked to play is because you don't play what the rest of Detroit is into anymore. Though I've never heard a set I own a few of your records, which are solid, and have an indication of what you play from the comments you've made on this list. Hard and minimal is my guess, the way Detroit used to do it, and from all reports mixed up in inspirational style. But with the exception of Hawtin, Mills and yourself (and maybe Rolando), it doesn't seem to me that that's what Detoit musicians are into anymore. I think Detroit and I think Carl Craig, Moodyman and Theo Parrish. I think Moods and Grooves and Theorem. They're the ones getting attention for moving stuff forward. I like the Detroit sound you helped to pioneer. But I think somewhere it got stuck in a groove. And the rest of Detroit kept moving on. I still like what you're doing, and I think lots of Europe like it too. I just don't think that your lack of invitation is a personal thing: it's more that your sound no longer represents present day Detroit. I'm keen to hear how you (very very lucky) people at DEMF sum up the Detroit sound circa 2000. Cheers Rol Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
RE: [313] DEMF & 'Hurt Feelings'
could someone please post Alan's essay...i don't have the convienence of the internet out here at sea. i would like to read it. everything the man says seems too be interesting and on point. thanks ahead of time. jeff > -Original Message- > From: Kent williams [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 10:19 AM > To: 313 list > Subject: [313] DEMF & 'Hurt Feelings' > > and Alan's essay at http://www.puresonikrecords.net/
