[AFMUG] OT: Slow Browsers

[Nate Burke]

Is it just me or have both Firefox and chrome gotten really slow over 
the last couple weeks/updates.


Firefox takes a good 5 seconds or so to start predictive showing me 
URL's out of my history.  Where I would start typing the first couple 
characters of URL's I visit all the time.  Now it's just like 'I have no 
idea what you're looking for, but here are some random google 
predictions'  Then 'J/K here's the URL'


Chrome has started doing this thing where I have a page open, I type a 
new URL in and hit enter, and then everything returns to the original 
page/URL with no indication that it's doing anything.  Then after about 
7 seconds, the new page loads with the new URL.


I feel like this is the same across all my machines.  Anyone else 
noticing problems?  I only use Chrome and Firefox, I haven't installed 
Edge yet.


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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Slow Browsers

[Darin Steffl]

I've not seen that. Sounds like it's limited to your computer. Try another
computer to rule it out.

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020, 7:29 AM Nate Burke  wrote:

> Is it just me or have both Firefox and chrome gotten really slow over
> the last couple weeks/updates.
>
> Firefox takes a good 5 seconds or so to start predictive showing me
> URL's out of my history.  Where I would start typing the first couple
> characters of URL's I visit all the time.  Now it's just like 'I have no
> idea what you're looking for, but here are some random google
> predictions'  Then 'J/K here's the URL'
>
> Chrome has started doing this thing where I have a page open, I type a
> new URL in and hit enter, and then everything returns to the original
> page/URL with no indication that it's doing anything.  Then after about
> 7 seconds, the new page loads with the new URL.
>
> I feel like this is the same across all my machines.  Anyone else
> noticing problems?  I only use Chrome and Firefox, I haven't installed
> Edge yet.
>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Slow Browsers

[Jesse Dupont]

I wonder if it’s because sell that data has moved to the cloud (because of 
cross-device sync) and that even if it is cached/sync’d locally, it has to 
authenticate to the cloud before the data store is unlocked. I’ve also noticed 
this on Safari after the last couple of MacOS updates.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 18, 2020, at 6:29 AM, Nate Burke  wrote:
> 
> Is it just me or have both Firefox and chrome gotten really slow over the 
> last couple weeks/updates.
> 
> Firefox takes a good 5 seconds or so to start predictive showing me URL's out 
> of my history.  Where I would start typing the first couple characters of 
> URL's I visit all the time.  Now it's just like 'I have no idea what you're 
> looking for, but here are some random google predictions'  Then 'J/K here's 
> the URL'
> 
> Chrome has started doing this thing where I have a page open, I type a new 
> URL in and hit enter, and then everything returns to the original page/URL 
> with no indication that it's doing anything.  Then after about 7 seconds, the 
> new page loads with the new URL.
> 
> I feel like this is the same across all my machines.  Anyone else noticing 
> problems?  I only use Chrome and Firefox, I haven't installed Edge yet.
> 
> -- 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Slow Browsers

[Ken Hohhof]

Chrome claims to be getting faster.
https://www.theverge.com/2020/11/17/21571832/google-chrome-2020-speed-memory-improvements


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Jesse Dupont
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 8:05 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Slow Browsers

I wonder if it’s because sell that data has moved to the cloud (because of 
cross-device sync) and that even if it is cached/sync’d locally, it has to 
authenticate to the cloud before the data store is unlocked. I’ve also noticed 
this on Safari after the last couple of MacOS updates.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 18, 2020, at 6:29 AM, Nate Burke  wrote:
> 
> Is it just me or have both Firefox and chrome gotten really slow over the 
> last couple weeks/updates.
> 
> Firefox takes a good 5 seconds or so to start predictive showing me URL's out 
> of my history.  Where I would start typing the first couple characters of 
> URL's I visit all the time.  Now it's just like 'I have no idea what you're 
> looking for, but here are some random google predictions'  Then 'J/K here's 
> the URL'
> 
> Chrome has started doing this thing where I have a page open, I type a new 
> URL in and hit enter, and then everything returns to the original page/URL 
> with no indication that it's doing anything.  Then after about 7 seconds, the 
> new page loads with the new URL.
> 
> I feel like this is the same across all my machines.  Anyone else noticing 
> problems?  I only use Chrome and Firefox, I haven't installed Edge yet.
> 
> -- 
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Slow Browsers

[Josh Luthman]

Chrome has been snappy as ever on any desktop/laptop.

On the Rock Pi X it's a little slow, but it's a 5 year old Atom CPU.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 9:05 AM Jesse Dupont 
wrote:

> I wonder if it’s because sell that data has moved to the cloud (because of
> cross-device sync) and that even if it is cached/sync’d locally, it has to
> authenticate to the cloud before the data store is unlocked. I’ve also
> noticed this on Safari after the last couple of MacOS updates.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Nov 18, 2020, at 6:29 AM, Nate Burke  wrote:
> >
> > Is it just me or have both Firefox and chrome gotten really slow over
> the last couple weeks/updates.
> >
> > Firefox takes a good 5 seconds or so to start predictive showing me
> URL's out of my history.  Where I would start typing the first couple
> characters of URL's I visit all the time.  Now it's just like 'I have no
> idea what you're looking for, but here are some random google predictions'
> Then 'J/K here's the URL'
> >
> > Chrome has started doing this thing where I have a page open, I type a
> new URL in and hit enter, and then everything returns to the original
> page/URL with no indication that it's doing anything.  Then after about 7
> seconds, the new page loads with the new URL.
> >
> > I feel like this is the same across all my machines.  Anyone else
> noticing problems?  I only use Chrome and Firefox, I haven't installed Edge
> yet.
> >
> > --
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> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Slow Browsers

[Ken Hohhof]

I have a Windows 7 Atom server I RDP into, and Chrome takes about 10 times as 
long to start up as Internet Explorer (yes, this machine still has IE on it).  
It’s slow enough that I really hate to use it, but Ubiquiti stuff after a 
certain FW version doesn’t like IE or pre-Chromium Edge.

 

My feeling is it’s just part of the trend toward bloated software that assumes 
you have a fast CPU with lots of cores.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 8:49 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Slow Browsers

 

Chrome has been snappy as ever on any desktop/laptop.

 

On the Rock Pi X it's a little slow, but it's a 5 year old Atom CPU.


 

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 9:05 AM Jesse Dupont  
wrote:

I wonder if it’s because sell that data has moved to the cloud (because of 
cross-device sync) and that even if it is cached/sync’d locally, it has to 
authenticate to the cloud before the data store is unlocked. I’ve also noticed 
this on Safari after the last couple of MacOS updates.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 18, 2020, at 6:29 AM, Nate Burke   > wrote:
> 
> Is it just me or have both Firefox and chrome gotten really slow over the 
> last couple weeks/updates.
> 
> Firefox takes a good 5 seconds or so to start predictive showing me URL's out 
> of my history.  Where I would start typing the first couple characters of 
> URL's I visit all the time.  Now it's just like 'I have no idea what you're 
> looking for, but here are some random google predictions'  Then 'J/K here's 
> the URL'
> 
> Chrome has started doing this thing where I have a page open, I type a new 
> URL in and hit enter, and then everything returns to the original page/URL 
> with no indication that it's doing anything.  Then after about 7 seconds, the 
> new page loads with the new URL.
> 
> I feel like this is the same across all my machines.  Anyone else noticing 
> problems?  I only use Chrome and Firefox, I haven't installed Edge yet.
> 
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] OT windows update issues

[Mike Hammett]

I have yet to find any way in which web mail is better than fat client mail, 
other than when the account you wish to check isn't in the fat client on your 
device. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Darin Steffl"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 12:28:07 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT windows update issues 


Can I ask why anyone likes using desktop email programs? Ever since I was a 
kid, I've dreaded helping people with outlook, live mail, or thunderbird 
because of issues like you're describing. 


Also people who didn't set up IMAP so their emails disappeared off their email 
server and only existed on their computer. Then they didn't back things up so 
when their computer crashed, bye bye to all their emails. Or if they bought a 
new computer and need to migrate, it takes an hour or two to backup and move 
the outlook file. 


Holy crap I shiver when I think about desktop email. 


Gmail.com and then move on with life. Forget about database issues, new 
computers, spam filtering, multiple devices per account, backups, etc. 


You couldn't convince me to ever use desktop email. That's so 2001 haha 


On Tue, Nov 17, 2020, 12:05 PM Adam Moffett < dmmoff...@gmail.com > wrote: 




EM Client can read the Outlook calendar invites. It's free for 1 account. Paid 
version if you need to check multiple accounts. Mainly it's fast, even with a 
large Inbox. Highly recommend. 
It also syncs with my GMail Calendar. 
Thunderbird performance seems inversely proportional to how much mail I have. 
Haven't used Outlook since the 2003 version. 


On 11/17/2020 12:45 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: 




So, today it appears that my Windows Live Mail database is corrupt. Can only 
see headers. So switching to outlook but that is painful. 
I rolled back the windows update that happened last night but still dead WLM… 
sob… 

Have resisted outlook for years. Few times it would be nice. When someone sends 
a meeting or contact at least I can read it without having to use a text editor 
and parsing through the complex crap… 


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Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

[Mike Hammett]

I don't know why people think it's difficult. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Lewis Bergman"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 1:10:14 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues 


Or so he thinks. I hope it works out that way. it always seemed really cheap to 
run a mail server, until you had to do it right. Then it came to be very 
expensive. I surrendered and went to GMail. To each his own though. I know you 
likely have a lot smarter people than me around so they will likely handle it 
with no issue. 


On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 12:40 PM Chuck McCown via AF < af@af.afmug.com > wrote: 





Cost. We have lots of accounts on it and lists and all kinds of other things. 
We put in our own email server concurrent with a new domain. So it will save a 
significant amount of money for us. 

From: Darin Steffl [mailto: darin.ste...@mnwifi.com ] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 11:31 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Cc: Chuck McCown < ch...@go-mtc.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues 


Why are you leaving Gmail? There's nothing better unless you need to live in 
the Microsoft ecosystem then you have office 365. 



We love Google apps for business and I use it for personal email too. They 
never let me down. 



On Tue, Nov 17, 2020, 11:59 AM Chuck McCown via AF < af@af.afmug.com > wrote: 




On top of all of this, we are migrating away from gmail today. PITA 



From: Chuck McCown [mailto: ch...@go-mtc.com ] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 10:46 AM 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: OT windows update issues 

So, today it appears that my Windows Live Mail database is corrupt. Can only 
see headers. So switching to outlook but that is painful. 
I rolled back the windows update that happened last night but still dead WLM… 
sob… 

Have resisted outlook for years. Few times it would be nice. When someone sends 
a meeting or contact at least I can read it without having to use a text editor 
and parsing through the complex crap… 
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[AFMUG] j-arms

[Matt]

Where is everyone getting j-arms nowadays?

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Re: [AFMUG] j-arms

[Matt Hoppes]

UBAM

On 11/18/20 10:40 AM, Matt wrote:

Where is everyone getting j-arms nowadays?



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Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

[Nate Burke]

Running the mail server is easy.  Continually managing the server is 
hard.  Hacked customer accounts, SMTP Relays, It's always 'YOUR' fault 
that they either cannot receive an email from a friend, or cannot send 
an email to that friend.  And the dreaded walking a customer through 
setting up their email client.


I.E. AOL randomly just dumps mail from me, their servers accept it, but 
never deliver it.  I have no idea why, or any rhyme or reason to it.  
But it's MY fault when a customer can't send to their friend at AOL.  
And now I'm spending time looking through logs etc.  That time all adds up.


On 11/18/2020 9:34 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

I don't know why people think it's difficult.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Lewis Bergman" 
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
*Sent: *Tuesday, November 17, 2020 1:10:14 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

Or so he thinks. I hope it works out that way. it always seemed really 
cheap to run a mail server, until you had to do it right. Then it came 
to be very expensive. I surrendered and went to GMail. To each his own 
though. I know you likely have a lot smarter people than me around so 
they will likely handle it with no issue.


On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 12:40 PM Chuck McCown via AF > wrote:


Cost. We have lots of accounts on it and lists and all kinds of
other things.  We put in our own email server concurrent with a
new domain.  So it will save a significant amount of money for us.

*From:*Darin Steffl [mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com
]
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 17, 2020 11:31 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Cc:* Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

Why are you leaving Gmail? There's nothing better unless you need
to live in the Microsoft ecosystem then you have office 365.

We love Google apps for business and I use it for personal email
too. They never let me down.

On Tue, Nov 17, 2020, 11:59 AM Chuck McCown via AF
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote:

On top of all of this, we are migrating away from gmail
today.  PITA

*From:* Chuck McCown [mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com
]
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 17, 2020 10:46 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com 
*Subject:* OT windows update issues

So, today it appears that my Windows Live Mail database is
corrupt. Can only see headers.  So switching to outlook but
that is painful.

I rolled back the windows update that happened last night but
still dead WLM… sob…

Have resisted outlook for years.  Few times it would be nice. 
When someone sends a meeting or contact at least I can read it

without having to use a text editor and parsing through the
complex crap…

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Re: [AFMUG] j-arms

[Nate Burke]

I have been very happy with the one's from WAV.  Good quality, and they 
have ~10 degree plumb adjustment.  All bolts thread into a bracket 
inside the JLeg, no through bolts and nuts.


On 11/18/2020 9:40 AM, Matt wrote:

Where is everyone getting j-arms nowadays?




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Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

[Adam Moffett]

Nothing is difficult after you've been doing it for 20 years.


If you've been hosting email since the 80's or 90's then each change was 
incrementally layered on over time.  If you had to start being the email 
guy from scratch today then it probably /would/ be difficult.



I'll admit it's time consuming to keep up on changing industry practices 
and different parties enforcing RFC compliance to different degrees.



Now matter how "easy" or "hard" we think it is, interop issues and user 
issues can waste time.  I think ISP's in particular resent wasting time 
on email because nobody pays them for it and fewer people are even using 
it.  It some point it downgraded from "killer app" to niche.



-Adam



On 11/18/2020 10:34 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

I don't know why people think it's difficult.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Lewis Bergman" 
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
*Sent: *Tuesday, November 17, 2020 1:10:14 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

Or so he thinks. I hope it works out that way. it always seemed really 
cheap to run a mail server, until you had to do it right. Then it came 
to be very expensive. I surrendered and went to GMail. To each his own 
though. I know you likely have a lot smarter people than me around so 
they will likely handle it with no issue.


On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 12:40 PM Chuck McCown via AF > wrote:


Cost. We have lots of accounts on it and lists and all kinds of
other things.  We put in our own email server concurrent with a
new domain.  So it will save a significant amount of money for us.

*From:*Darin Steffl [mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com
]
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 17, 2020 11:31 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Cc:* Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

Why are you leaving Gmail? There's nothing better unless you need
to live in the Microsoft ecosystem then you have office 365.

We love Google apps for business and I use it for personal email
too. They never let me down.

On Tue, Nov 17, 2020, 11:59 AM Chuck McCown via AF
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote:

On top of all of this, we are migrating away from gmail
today.  PITA

*From:* Chuck McCown [mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com
]
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 17, 2020 10:46 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com 
*Subject:* OT windows update issues

So, today it appears that my Windows Live Mail database is
corrupt. Can only see headers.  So switching to outlook but
that is painful.

I rolled back the windows update that happened last night but
still dead WLM… sob…

Have resisted outlook for years.  Few times it would be nice. 
When someone sends a meeting or contact at least I can read it
without having to use a text editor and parsing through the
complex crap…

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Re: [AFMUG] j-arms

[Adam Moffett]

Used to be we'd get the best quality j-arms from our Dish Network 
distributor.  Not sure who we're using now.  Might be Skywalker.


On 11/18/2020 10:40 AM, Matt wrote:

Where is everyone getting j-arms nowadays?



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Re: [AFMUG] j-arms

[Mathew Howard]

That sounds similar to the Skywalker ones that we've been using. Do you
know what brand they are?

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 9:45 AM Nate Burke  wrote:

> I have been very happy with the one's from WAV.  Good quality, and they
> have ~10 degree plumb adjustment.  All bolts thread into a bracket
> inside the JLeg, no through bolts and nuts.
>
> On 11/18/2020 9:40 AM, Matt wrote:
> > Where is everyone getting j-arms nowadays?
> >
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] j-arms

[Nate Burke]

I have a box on order, I'll have to look at the name on it.  There's no 
marking on the leg itself that I remember.


On 11/18/2020 10:22 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
That sounds similar to the Skywalker ones that we've been using. Do 
you know what brand they are?


On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 9:45 AM Nate Burke > wrote:


I have been very happy with the one's from WAV.  Good quality, and
they
have ~10 degree plumb adjustment.  All bolts thread into a bracket
inside the JLeg, no through bolts and nuts.

On 11/18/2020 9:40 AM, Matt wrote:
> Where is everyone getting j-arms nowadays?
>


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[AFMUG] IRR

[Matt Hoppes]

Can someone explain to me a little more of what IRR is on ARIN IP 
blocks?  Traditionally our upstreams have registered the IRR for us, how 
do we register the IRR ourselves?


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[AFMUG] OT: Where does the money go?

[Nate Burke]

Genuine question, I always here about Millions/Billions of Dollars being 
spent on Elections.  Where does that money go?  $14B spent on the last 
election.  Is there a new billionaire somewhere relaxing on his yacht now?


I understand most goes to advertising.  So that's like what, 6 
networks/corporations.  But I don't' remember hearing anything about 
'Media company posts record profits this quarter'  It's like the money 
just disappears, never to be heard about again, and the poor media 
companies are barely making ends meet.


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Re: [AFMUG] IRR

[Larry Smith]

On Wed November 18 2020 10:31, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> Can someone explain to me a little more of what IRR is on ARIN IP
> blocks?  Traditionally our upstreams have registered the IRR for us, how
> do we register the IRR ourselves?

The IRR is simply a way to manage your IP blocks without having
to regularly send in updates, changes, etc (via their manual forms)
to the ARIN.

Once you have an IRR server online, and your IP blocks entered and
labeled (hopefuly correctly), you just notify ARIN of the IRR server
name and IP and they will test it, then (believe) they let you know
that it is "up" within their system.

Draw back of this (from my perspective) is that from then forward,
the ARIN also redirects all "whois" IP queries for your IP blocks to
your server so you stand a chance of getting quite a few queries.

Been running our own IRR here since about 97, or 98 I think.

-- 
Larry Smith
lesm...@ecsis.net

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Re: [AFMUG] IRR

[Mike Hammett]

https://register.gotowebinar.com/register/6833980845726983437?source=web 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Matt Hoppes"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 10:31:19 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] IRR 

Can someone explain to me a little more of what IRR is on ARIN IP 
blocks? Traditionally our upstreams have registered the IRR for us, how 
do we register the IRR ourselves? 

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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Where does the money go?

[Larry Smith]

On Wed November 18 2020 10:36, Nate Burke wrote:
> Genuine question, I always here about Millions/Billions of Dollars being
> spent on Elections.  Where does that money go?  $14B spent on the last
> election.  Is there a new billionaire somewhere relaxing on his yacht now?
>
> I understand most goes to advertising.  So that's like what, 6
> networks/corporations.  But I don't' remember hearing anything about
> 'Media company posts record profits this quarter'  It's like the money
> just disappears, never to be heard about again, and the poor media
> companies are barely making ends meet.

Our local (podunk) Election office gave ink pens, popcicle sticks, stickers,
and postits this year.  Their reasoning was everyone had their own pen so
no one needed to touch theirs, the popcicle stick was for pushing the buttons
(did not work well) and the stickers and postits were just fluff.  Had to cost
something for all that...

-- 
Larry Smith
lesm...@ecsis.net

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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Where does the money go?

[Mike Hammett]

Revenues do go up during election season, but it's not as if they went up $14B. 
A lot of that would have displaced other, cheaper advertisements. 

Also, 2020 probably has had depressed advertising budgets for many industries 
that are traditionally heavy purchasers of ad time. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Nate Burke"  
To: "Animal Farm"  
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 10:36:29 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: Where does the money go? 

Genuine question, I always here about Millions/Billions of Dollars being 
spent on Elections. Where does that money go? $14B spent on the last 
election. Is there a new billionaire somewhere relaxing on his yacht now? 

I understand most goes to advertising. So that's like what, 6 
networks/corporations. But I don't' remember hearing anything about 
'Media company posts record profits this quarter' It's like the money 
just disappears, never to be heard about again, and the poor media 
companies are barely making ends meet. 

-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Where does the money go?

[Ken Hohhof]

Well, Rudy is reported to cost $20,000/day.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 10:55 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Where does the money go?

 

Revenues do go up during election season, but it's not as if they went up $14B. 
A lot of that would have displaced other, cheaper advertisements.

Also, 2020 probably has had depressed advertising budgets for many industries 
that are traditionally heavy purchasers of ad time.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 




  _  

From: "Nate Burke" mailto:n...@blastcomm.com> >
To: "Animal Farm" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 10:36:29 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: Where does the money go?

Genuine question, I always here about Millions/Billions of Dollars being 
spent on Elections.  Where does that money go?  $14B spent on the last 
election.  Is there a new billionaire somewhere relaxing on his yacht now?

I understand most goes to advertising.  So that's like what, 6 
networks/corporations.  But I don't' remember hearing anything about 
'Media company posts record profits this quarter'  It's like the money 
just disappears, never to be heard about again, and the poor media 
companies are barely making ends meet.

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

 

-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Slow Browsers

[Josh Luthman]

Well that's kinda like comparing Notepad 1.0 and Word 2020 at that point =P

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 10:15 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> I have a Windows 7 Atom server I RDP into, and Chrome takes about 10 times
> as long to start up as Internet Explorer (yes, this machine still has IE on
> it).  It’s slow enough that I really hate to use it, but Ubiquiti stuff
> after a certain FW version doesn’t like IE or pre-Chromium Edge.
>
>
>
> My feeling is it’s just part of the trend toward bloated software that
> assumes you have a fast CPU with lots of cores.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 18, 2020 8:49 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Slow Browsers
>
>
>
> Chrome has been snappy as ever on any desktop/laptop.
>
>
>
> On the Rock Pi X it's a little slow, but it's a 5 year old Atom CPU.
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 9:05 AM Jesse Dupont <
> jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net> wrote:
>
> I wonder if it’s because sell that data has moved to the cloud (because of
> cross-device sync) and that even if it is cached/sync’d locally, it has to
> authenticate to the cloud before the data store is unlocked. I’ve also
> noticed this on Safari after the last couple of MacOS updates.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Nov 18, 2020, at 6:29 AM, Nate Burke  wrote:
> >
> > Is it just me or have both Firefox and chrome gotten really slow over
> the last couple weeks/updates.
> >
> > Firefox takes a good 5 seconds or so to start predictive showing me
> URL's out of my history.  Where I would start typing the first couple
> characters of URL's I visit all the time.  Now it's just like 'I have no
> idea what you're looking for, but here are some random google predictions'
> Then 'J/K here's the URL'
> >
> > Chrome has started doing this thing where I have a page open, I type a
> new URL in and hit enter, and then everything returns to the original
> page/URL with no indication that it's doing anything.  Then after about 7
> seconds, the new page loads with the new URL.
> >
> > I feel like this is the same across all my machines.  Anyone else
> noticing problems?  I only use Chrome and Firefox, I haven't installed Edge
> yet.
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

[Matt Corcoran]

AOL has its own problems.Only AOL customers cannot receive our email 
invoices and billing alerts.  I can’t get them to fix it.   People don’t like 
me telling them to change email addresses.   But if the mail man regularly 
chucks your mail out the window, you need to talk to the postal service or 
switch to UPS.
From: AF  on behalf of Nate Burke 
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 at 10:43 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

Running the mail server is easy.  Continually managing the server is hard.  
Hacked customer accounts, SMTP Relays, It's always 'YOUR' fault that they 
either cannot receive an email from a friend, or cannot send an email to that 
friend.  And the dreaded walking a customer through setting up their email 
client.

I.E. AOL randomly just dumps mail from me, their servers accept it, but never 
deliver it.  I have no idea why, or any rhyme or reason to it.  But it's MY 
fault when a customer can't send to their friend at AOL.  And now I'm spending 
time looking through logs etc.  That time all adds up.
On 11/18/2020 9:34 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
I don't know why people think it's difficult.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
The Brothers WISP
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]




From: "Lewis Bergman" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 1:10:14 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues
Or so he thinks. I hope it works out that way. it always seemed really cheap to 
run a mail server, until you had to do it right. Then it came to be very 
expensive. I surrendered and went to GMail. To each his own though. I know you 
likely have a lot smarter people than me around so they will likely handle it 
with no issue.

On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 12:40 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote:
Cost.  We have lots of accounts on it and lists and all kinds of other things.  
We put in our own email server concurrent with a new domain.  So it will save a 
significant amount of money for us.

From: Darin Steffl 
[mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 11:31 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Cc: Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

Why are you leaving Gmail? There's nothing better unless you need to live in 
the Microsoft ecosystem then you have office 365.

We love Google apps for business and I use it for personal email too. They 
never let me down.

On Tue, Nov 17, 2020, 11:59 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote:
On top of all of this, we are migrating away from gmail today.  PITA

From: Chuck McCown [mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 10:46 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: OT windows update issues

So, today it appears that my Windows Live Mail database is corrupt.  Can only 
see headers.  So switching to outlook but that is painful.
I rolled back the windows update that happened last night but still dead WLM… 
sob…

Have resisted outlook for years.  Few times it would be nice.  When someone 
sends a meeting or contact at least I can read it without having to use a text 
editor and parsing through the complex crap…
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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


--
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell

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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Where does the money go?

[Sean Heskett]

Tv networks, Facebook and google.

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 9:39 AM Nate Burke  wrote:

> Genuine question, I always here about Millions/Billions of Dollars being
> spent on Elections.  Where does that money go?  $14B spent on the last
> election.  Is there a new billionaire somewhere relaxing on his yacht now?
>
> I understand most goes to advertising.  So that's like what, 6
> networks/corporations.  But I don't' remember hearing anything about
> 'Media company posts record profits this quarter'  It's like the money
> just disappears, never to be heard about again, and the poor media
> companies are barely making ends meet.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
Sean Heskett

ZIRKEL
Internet • WiFi • Phone • TV
970-871-8500 x100 - Office
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Where does the money go?

[Ken Hohhof]

Article (may be behind paywall) says money was wasted or even counterproductive.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/17/us/maine-susan-collins.html

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 10:55 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Where does the money go?

 

Revenues do go up during election season, but it's not as if they went up $14B. 
A lot of that would have displaced other, cheaper advertisements.

Also, 2020 probably has had depressed advertising budgets for many industries 
that are traditionally heavy purchasers of ad time.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 




  _  

From: "Nate Burke" mailto:n...@blastcomm.com> >
To: "Animal Farm" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 10:36:29 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: Where does the money go?

Genuine question, I always here about Millions/Billions of Dollars being 
spent on Elections.  Where does that money go?  $14B spent on the last 
election.  Is there a new billionaire somewhere relaxing on his yacht now?

I understand most goes to advertising.  So that's like what, 6 
networks/corporations.  But I don't' remember hearing anything about 
'Media company posts record profits this quarter'  It's like the money 
just disappears, never to be heard about again, and the poor media 
companies are barely making ends meet.

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

 

-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Where does the money go?

[Bill Prince]

The bulk is TV/radio advertising, which it is believed to be less and 
less effective, but it still spent. There is also newspapers, and postal 
flyers, staff, lawyers, consultants, polling. Russian trolls, Iranian 
trolls, Chinese trolls. Breitbart trolls. Fox trolls. Middle earth trolls.


Trolls are generally cheap, but there are a lot of them.


bp


On 11/18/2020 8:36 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
Genuine question, I always here about Millions/Billions of Dollars 
being spent on Elections.  Where does that money go?  $14B spent on 
the last election.  Is there a new billionaire somewhere relaxing on 
his yacht now?


I understand most goes to advertising.  So that's like what, 6 
networks/corporations.  But I don't' remember hearing anything about 
'Media company posts record profits this quarter'  It's like the money 
just disappears, never to be heard about again, and the poor media 
companies are barely making ends meet.




--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

[Ken Hohhof]

It used to be the fix for AOL was to sign up for their “feedback loop”.  
Basically they send you every message from your mailserver that some AOL 
customer clicked on “Report as Spam” and you are supposed to review them, in 
return they don’t blacklist you.  (is there a new non offensive term for 
blacklist?)

 

I’m not sure it’s still active.

 

Part of the problem is that AOL users aren’t the sharpest knives in the drawer, 
and many think the way to unsubscribe from a list is to click on “Report as 
Spam”.  I would say when we were reviewing supposed spam from the AOL feedback 
loop, at least 95% of it was not spam.  For example, we hosted mail for several 
churches.  New members or visitors would sign in with their contact info 
including an AOL email address, and the church would start sending them weekly 
newsletters.  And they would click on “Report as Spam”.  On the other hand, 
when an email customer got their credentials compromised and used to send spam, 
AOL would often be an early warning system.  But our mailserver throttles 
outgoing mail at 100 in an hour per account and notifies us, and that serves as 
an early warning system.

 

Customers with malware on their computers harvesting their email password is an 
ongoing problem.  Sometimes we are changing email passwords every 2-3 weeks for 
the same customer until they disinfect all their devices.  The usual advice use 
a complex password is useless if it is being harvested with something like a 
keylogger.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Corcoran
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 11:31 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

 

AOL has its own problems.Only AOL customers cannot receive our email 
invoices and billing alerts.  I can’t get them to fix it.   People don’t like 
me telling them to change email addresses.   But if the mail man regularly 
chucks your mail out the window, you need to talk to the postal service or 
switch to UPS.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > on behalf 
of Nate Burke mailto:n...@blastcomm.com> >
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 at 10:43 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

 

Running the mail server is easy.  Continually managing the server is hard.  
Hacked customer accounts, SMTP Relays, It's always 'YOUR' fault that they 
either cannot receive an email from a friend, or cannot send an email to that 
friend.  And the dreaded walking a customer through setting up their email 
client.  

I.E. AOL randomly just dumps mail from me, their servers accept it, but never 
deliver it.  I have no idea why, or any rhyme or reason to it.  But it's MY 
fault when a customer can't send to their friend at AOL.  And now I'm spending 
time looking through logs etc.  That time all adds up.

On 11/18/2020 9:34 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

I don't know why people think it's difficult.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 





  _  


From: "Lewis Bergman"   

To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"   

Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 1:10:14 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

Or so he thinks. I hope it works out that way. it always seemed really cheap to 
run a mail server, until you had to do it right. Then it came to be very 
expensive. I surrendered and went to GMail. To each his own though. I know you 
likely have a lot smarter people than me around so they will likely handle it 
with no issue.

 

On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 12:40 PM Chuck McCown via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > wrote:

Cost.  We have lots of accounts on it and lists and all kinds of other things.  
We put in our own email server concurrent with a new domain.  So it will save a 
significant amount of money for us.  

 

From: Darin Steffl [mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com 
 ] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 11:31 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Cc: Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

 

Why are you leaving Gmail? There's nothing better unless you need to live in 
the Microsoft ecosystem then you have office 365.

 

We love Google apps for business and I use it for per

Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

[James Howard]

Part of the problem is that AOL users aren’t the sharpest knives in the drawer

This is an outrage that you would insinuate that a member of the Army Of Losers 
might not be a sharp knife!

I actually had someone who I respected give me their @aol email address not 
that long ago and all I could think of was “wow”……..

From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 12:06 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

It used to be the fix for AOL was to sign up for their “feedback loop”.  
Basically they send you every message from your mailserver that some AOL 
customer clicked on “Report as Spam” and you are supposed to review them, in 
return they don’t blacklist you.  (is there a new non offensive term for 
blacklist?)

I’m not sure it’s still active.

Part of the problem is that AOL users aren’t the sharpest knives in the drawer, 
and many think the way to unsubscribe from a list is to click on “Report as 
Spam”.  I would say when we were reviewing supposed spam from the AOL feedback 
loop, at least 95% of it was not spam.  For example, we hosted mail for several 
churches.  New members or visitors would sign in with their contact info 
including an AOL email address, and the church would start sending them weekly 
newsletters.  And they would click on “Report as Spam”.  On the other hand, 
when an email customer got their credentials compromised and used to send spam, 
AOL would often be an early warning system.  But our mailserver throttles 
outgoing mail at 100 in an hour per account and notifies us, and that serves as 
an early warning system.

Customers with malware on their computers harvesting their email password is an 
ongoing problem.  Sometimes we are changing email passwords every 2-3 weeks for 
the same customer until they disinfect all their devices.  The usual advice use 
a complex password is useless if it is being harvested with something like a 
keylogger.


From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Matt Corcoran
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 11:31 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

AOL has its own problems.Only AOL customers cannot receive our email 
invoices and billing alerts.  I can’t get them to fix it.   People don’t like 
me telling them to change email addresses.   But if the mail man regularly 
chucks your mail out the window, you need to talk to the postal service or 
switch to UPS.

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> on behalf of 
Nate Burke mailto:n...@blastcomm.com>>
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 at 10:43 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

Running the mail server is easy.  Continually managing the server is hard.  
Hacked customer accounts, SMTP Relays, It's always 'YOUR' fault that they 
either cannot receive an email from a friend, or cannot send an email to that 
friend.  And the dreaded walking a customer through setting up their email 
client.

I.E. AOL randomly just dumps mail from me, their servers accept it, but never 
deliver it.  I have no idea why, or any rhyme or reason to it.  But it's MY 
fault when a customer can't send to their friend at AOL.  And now I'm spending 
time looking through logs etc.  That time all adds up.
On 11/18/2020 9:34 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
I don't know why people think it's difficult.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
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From: "Lewis Bergman" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 1:10:14 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues
Or so he thinks. I hope it works out that way. it always seemed really cheap to 
run a mail server, until you had to do it right. Then it came to be very 
expensive. I surrendered and went to GMail. To 

Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

[Ken Hohhof]

I cut people with Compuserve email addresses some slack.  That’s like driving a 
Corvair, it’s a classic.  AOL is like driving a Pinto.  Neither should be your 
regular ride, but Compuserve brands you as a member of an exclusive club of 
vintage users.  AOL just brands you as a Loser, someone who can’t figure out 
how to sign up for Gmail.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of James Howard
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 12:21 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

 

Part of the problem is that AOL users aren’t the sharpest knives in the drawer

 

This is an outrage that you would insinuate that a member of the Army Of Losers 
might not be a sharp knife!

 

I actually had someone who I respected give me their @aol email address not 
that long ago and all I could think of was “wow”……..

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 12:06 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

 

It used to be the fix for AOL was to sign up for their “feedback loop”.  
Basically they send you every message from your mailserver that some AOL 
customer clicked on “Report as Spam” and you are supposed to review them, in 
return they don’t blacklist you.  (is there a new non offensive term for 
blacklist?)

 

I’m not sure it’s still active.

 

Part of the problem is that AOL users aren’t the sharpest knives in the drawer, 
and many think the way to unsubscribe from a list is to click on “Report as 
Spam”.  I would say when we were reviewing supposed spam from the AOL feedback 
loop, at least 95% of it was not spam.  For example, we hosted mail for several 
churches.  New members or visitors would sign in with their contact info 
including an AOL email address, and the church would start sending them weekly 
newsletters.  And they would click on “Report as Spam”.  On the other hand, 
when an email customer got their credentials compromised and used to send spam, 
AOL would often be an early warning system.  But our mailserver throttles 
outgoing mail at 100 in an hour per account and notifies us, and that serves as 
an early warning system.

 

Customers with malware on their computers harvesting their email password is an 
ongoing problem.  Sometimes we are changing email passwords every 2-3 weeks for 
the same customer until they disinfect all their devices.  The usual advice use 
a complex password is useless if it is being harvested with something like a 
keylogger.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Matt Corcoran
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 11:31 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

 

AOL has its own problems.Only AOL customers cannot receive our email 
invoices and billing alerts.  I can’t get them to fix it.   People don’t like 
me telling them to change email addresses.   But if the mail man regularly 
chucks your mail out the window, you need to talk to the postal service or 
switch to UPS.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > on behalf 
of Nate Burke mailto:n...@blastcomm.com> >
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 at 10:43 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

 

Running the mail server is easy.  Continually managing the server is hard.  
Hacked customer accounts, SMTP Relays, It's always 'YOUR' fault that they 
either cannot receive an email from a friend, or cannot send an email to that 
friend.  And the dreaded walking a customer through setting up their email 
client.  

I.E. AOL randomly just dumps mail from me, their servers accept it, but never 
deliver it.  I have no idea why, or any rhyme or reason to it.  But it's MY 
fault when a customer can't send to their friend at AOL.  And now I'm spending 
time looking through logs etc.  That time all adds up.

On 11/18/2020 9:34 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

I don't know why people think it's difficult.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 





  _  


From: "Lewis Bergman"   

To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"   

Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 1:10:14 PM
Subject:

Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

[Bill Prince]

  
  
In the words of some old baseball player, "AOL been bery bery
  good to me." I happened to be working for Tandem at the time when
  AOL started. Their growth was through the roof at the time, and
  they were buying processors from Tandem at some unmentionable
  rate. The Tandem AOL sales rep made enough in a couple of months
  to retire on, and the gravy train kept running for 3 or so years.
  

They had built a proprietary email system on the Tandem system
  and regardless of how well or not well it ran, it sure made a lot
  of money for Tandem and their employees at the time. 



bp

On 11/18/2020 10:48 AM, Ken Hohhof
  wrote:


  
  
  
  
  
I cut people with Compuserve email
  addresses some slack.  That’s like driving a Corvair, it’s a
  classic.  AOL is like driving a Pinto.  Neither should be your
  regular ride, but Compuserve brands you as a member of an
  exclusive club of vintage users.  AOL just brands you as a
  Loser, someone who can’t figure out how to sign up for Gmail.
 
 

  
From: AF
   On Behalf Of James
  Howard
  Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 12:21 PM
  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
  
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues
  

 
Part of the problem is that AOL users
aren’t the sharpest knives in the drawer
 
This is an outrage that you would insinuate
  that a member of the Army Of Losers might not be a sharp
  knife!
 
I actually had someone who I respected give
  me their @aol email address not that long ago and all I could
  think of was “wow”……..
 

  
From: AF  On
Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
  Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 12:06 PM
  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues
  

 
It used to be the fix for AOL was to sign
  up for their “feedback loop”.  Basically they send you every
  message from your mailserver that some AOL customer clicked on
  “Report as Spam” and you are supposed to review them, in
  return they don’t blacklist you.  (is there a new non
  offensive term for blacklist?)
 
I’m not sure it’s still active.
 
Part of the problem is that AOL users
  aren’t the sharpest knives in the drawer, and many think the
  way to unsubscribe from a list is to click on “Report as
  Spam”.  I would say when we were reviewing supposed spam from
  the AOL feedback loop, at least 95% of it was not spam.  For
  example, we hosted mail for several churches.  New members or
  visitors would sign in with their contact info including an
  AOL email address, and the church would start sending them
  weekly newsletters.  And they would click on “Report as
  Spam”.  On the other hand, when an email customer got their
  credentials compromised and used to send spam, AOL would often
  be an early warning system.  But our mailserver throttles
  outgoing mail at 100 in an hour per account and notifies us,
  and that serves as an early warning system.
 
Customers with malware on their computers
  harvesting their email password is an ongoing problem. 
  Sometimes we are changing email passwords every 2-3 weeks for
  the same customer until they disinfect all their devices.  The
  usual advice use a complex password is useless if it is being
  harvested with something like a keylogger.
 
 

  
From: AF  On
Behalf Of Matt Corcoran
  Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 11:31 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues
  

 
AOL has its own problems.    Only AOL
  customers cannot receive our email invoices and billing
  alerts.  I can’t get them to fix it.   People don’t like me
  telling them to change email addresses.   But if the mail man
  regularly chucks your mail out the window, you need to talk to
  the postal service or switch to UPS.
 

  From: AF 
  on behalf of Nate Burke 
  Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 at 10:43 AM

Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

[Robert Andrews]

What about my old email addresses..   rob...@netcom.com   or 
rob...@netscape.com ( not nearly as old )


On 11/18/2020 10:48 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
I cut people with Compuserve email addresses some slack.  That’s like 
driving a Corvair, it’s a classic.  AOL is like driving a Pinto.  
Neither should be your regular ride, but Compuserve brands you as a 
member of an exclusive club of vintage users.  AOL just brands you as a 
Loser, someone who can’t figure out how to sign up for Gmail.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *James Howard
*Sent:* Wednesday, November 18, 2020 12:21 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

/Part of the problem is that AOL users aren’t the sharpest knives in the 
drawer/


//

This is an outrage that you would insinuate that a member of the Army Of 
Losers might not be a sharp knife!


I actually had someone who I respected give me their @aol email address 
not that long ago and all I could think of was “wow”……..


*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> 
*On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof

*Sent:* Wednesday, November 18, 2020 12:06 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' >

*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

It used to be the fix for AOL was to sign up for their “feedback loop”.  
Basically they send you every message from your mailserver that some AOL 
customer clicked on “Report as Spam” and you are supposed to review 
them, in return they don’t blacklist you.  (is there a new non offensive 
term for blacklist?)


I’m not sure it’s still active.

Part of the problem is that AOL users aren’t the sharpest knives in the 
drawer, and many think the way to unsubscribe from a list is to click on 
“Report as Spam”.  I would say when we were reviewing supposed spam from 
the AOL feedback loop, at least 95% of it was not spam.  For example, we 
hosted mail for several churches.  New members or visitors would sign in 
with their contact info including an AOL email address, and the church 
would start sending them weekly newsletters.  And they would click on 
“Report as Spam”.  On the other hand, when an email customer got their 
credentials compromised and used to send spam, AOL would often be an 
early warning system.  But our mailserver throttles outgoing mail at 100 
in an hour per account and notifies us, and that serves as an early 
warning system.


Customers with malware on their computers harvesting their email 
password is an ongoing problem.  Sometimes we are changing email 
passwords every 2-3 weeks for the same customer until they disinfect all 
their devices.  The usual advice use a complex password is useless if it 
is being harvested with something like a keylogger.


*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> 
*On Behalf Of *Matt Corcoran

*Sent:* Wednesday, November 18, 2020 11:31 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >

*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

AOL has its own problems.Only AOL customers cannot receive our email 
invoices and billing alerts.  I can’t get them to fix it.   People don’t 
like me telling them to change email addresses.   But if the mail man 
regularly chucks your mail out the window, you need to talk to the 
postal service or switch to UPS.


*From: *AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> on 
behalf of Nate Burke mailto:n...@blastcomm.com>>
*Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >

*Date: *Wednesday, November 18, 2020 at 10:43 AM
*To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >

*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

Running the mail server is easy.  Continually managing the server is 
hard.  Hacked customer accounts, SMTP Relays, It's always 'YOUR' fault 
that they either cannot receive an email from a friend, or cannot send 
an email to that friend.  And the dreaded walking a customer through 
setting up their email client.


I.E. AOL randomly just dumps mail from me, their servers accept it, but 
never deliver it.  I have no idea why, or any rhyme or reason to it.  
But it's MY fault when a customer can't send to their friend at AOL.  
And now I'm spending time looking through logs etc.  That time all adds up.


On 11/18/2020 9:34 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

I don't know why people think it's difficult.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 





--

Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

[Bill Prince]

My wife was a charter member of the WELL (Whole Earth Lectronic Link) 
way back when; I think it was even before Compuserve.


Come to think of it, Compuserve ran on Tandem systems too...


bp


On 11/18/2020 10:58 AM, Robert Andrews wrote:
What about my old email addresses..   rob...@netcom.com   or 
rob...@netscape.com ( not nearly as old )


On 11/18/2020 10:48 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
I cut people with Compuserve email addresses some slack.  That’s like 
driving a Corvair, it’s a classic.  AOL is like driving a Pinto.  
Neither should be your regular ride, but Compuserve brands you as a 
member of an exclusive club of vintage users.  AOL just brands you as 
a Loser, someone who can’t figure out how to sign up for Gmail.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *James Howard
*Sent:* Wednesday, November 18, 2020 12:21 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

/Part of the problem is that AOL users aren’t the sharpest knives in 
the drawer/


//

This is an outrage that you would insinuate that a member of the Army 
Of Losers might not be a sharp knife!


I actually had someone who I respected give me their @aol email 
address not that long ago and all I could think of was “wow”……..


*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> 
*On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof

*Sent:* Wednesday, November 18, 2020 12:06 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' >

*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

It used to be the fix for AOL was to sign up for their “feedback 
loop”.  Basically they send you every message from your mailserver 
that some AOL customer clicked on “Report as Spam” and you are 
supposed to review them, in return they don’t blacklist you.  (is 
there a new non offensive term for blacklist?)


I’m not sure it’s still active.

Part of the problem is that AOL users aren’t the sharpest knives in 
the drawer, and many think the way to unsubscribe from a list is to 
click on “Report as Spam”.  I would say when we were reviewing 
supposed spam from the AOL feedback loop, at least 95% of it was not 
spam.  For example, we hosted mail for several churches.  New members 
or visitors would sign in with their contact info including an AOL 
email address, and the church would start sending them weekly 
newsletters.  And they would click on “Report as Spam”.  On the other 
hand, when an email customer got their credentials compromised and 
used to send spam, AOL would often be an early warning system.  But 
our mailserver throttles outgoing mail at 100 in an hour per account 
and notifies us, and that serves as an early warning system.


Customers with malware on their computers harvesting their email 
password is an ongoing problem.  Sometimes we are changing email 
passwords every 2-3 weeks for the same customer until they disinfect 
all their devices.  The usual advice use a complex password is 
useless if it is being harvested with something like a keylogger.


*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> 
*On Behalf Of *Matt Corcoran

*Sent:* Wednesday, November 18, 2020 11:31 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >

*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

AOL has its own problems.    Only AOL customers cannot receive our 
email invoices and billing alerts.  I can’t get them to fix it.   
People don’t like me telling them to change email addresses.   But if 
the mail man regularly chucks your mail out the window, you need to 
talk to the postal service or switch to UPS.


*From: *AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> 
on behalf of Nate Burke mailto:n...@blastcomm.com>>
*Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >

*Date: *Wednesday, November 18, 2020 at 10:43 AM
*To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >

*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

Running the mail server is easy.  Continually managing the server is 
hard.  Hacked customer accounts, SMTP Relays, It's always 'YOUR' 
fault that they either cannot receive an email from a friend, or 
cannot send an email to that friend.  And the dreaded walking a 
customer through setting up their email client.


I.E. AOL randomly just dumps mail from me, their servers accept it, 
but never deliver it.  I have no idea why, or any rhyme or reason to 
it.  But it's MY fault when a customer can't send to their friend at 
AOL.  And now I'm spending time looking through logs etc.  That time 
all adds up.


On 11/18/2020 9:34 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

    I don't know why people think it's difficult.



    -
    Mike Hammett
    Intelligent Computing Solutions 

    Midwest Internet Exchange 

[AFMUG] OT Covid is over

[Chuck McCown via AF]

https://www.npr.org/2020/11/18/936080917/faa-gives-boeing-ok-to-resume-737-m
ax-passenger-service

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Covid is over

[Bill Prince]

  
  
may I please be excused from flying on a 737 max for a year or
  two?


bp

On 11/18/2020 11:09 AM, Chuck McCown
  via AF wrote:


  
  
  
  
https://www.npr.org/2020/11/18/936080917/faa-gives-boeing-ok-to-resume-737-max-passenger-service
  
  
  

  


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

[AFMUG] OT: I was just thinking about Starlink...

[Bill Prince]

Let's just say for arguments sake that Starlink gets a functional 
constellation in place with, oh, 2,000 satellites in orbit. Everything 
goes just swell, and they grow the constellation to 4,000 satellites by 
the end of 2022.


In January 2023 the sun erupts with a massive CME and kills 75% of the 
satellites. not to mention similar percentages of the GPS sats and 
whatever else is in orbit at the time.


Whoops.

What next?

--
bp



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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Covid is over

[Robert Andrews]

Could this be the perfect finish for 2020?

On 11/18/2020 11:13 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

may I please be excused from flying on a 737 max for a year or two?


bp


On 11/18/2020 11:09 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:


https://www.npr.org/2020/11/18/936080917/faa-gives-boeing-ok-to-resume-737-max-passenger-service







--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: I was just thinking about Starlink...

[Robert Andrews]

Covid-23?   I believe I have seen a preview of that movie out...

On 11/18/2020 11:17 AM, Bill Prince wrote:


Let's just say for arguments sake that Starlink gets a functional 
constellation in place with, oh, 2,000 satellites in orbit. Everything 
goes just swell, and they grow the constellation to 4,000 satellites by 
the end of 2022.


In January 2023 the sun erupts with a massive CME and kills 75% of the 
satellites. not to mention similar percentages of the GPS sats and 
whatever else is in orbit at the time.


Whoops.

What next?



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Slow Browsers

[Chuck McCown via AF]

Push the turbo button.

-Original Message- 
From: Jesse Dupont

Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 7:05 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Slow Browsers

I wonder if it’s because sell that data has moved to the cloud (because of 
cross-device sync) and that even if it is cached/sync’d locally, it has to 
authenticate to the cloud before the data store is unlocked. I’ve also 
noticed this on Safari after the last couple of MacOS updates.


Sent from my iPhone


On Nov 18, 2020, at 6:29 AM, Nate Burke  wrote:

Is it just me or have both Firefox and chrome gotten really slow over the 
last couple weeks/updates.


Firefox takes a good 5 seconds or so to start predictive showing me URL's 
out of my history.  Where I would start typing the first couple characters 
of URL's I visit all the time.  Now it's just like 'I have no idea what 
you're looking for, but here are some random google predictions'  Then 
'J/K here's the URL'


Chrome has started doing this thing where I have a page open, I type a new 
URL in and hit enter, and then everything returns to the original page/URL 
with no indication that it's doing anything.  Then after about 7 seconds, 
the new page loads with the new URL.


I feel like this is the same across all my machines.  Anyone else noticing 
problems?  I only use Chrome and Firefox, I haven't installed Edge yet.


--
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


--
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 



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Re: [AFMUG] OT: I was just thinking about Starlink...

[Lewis Bergman]

Since they will provide the service at 1/50 the cost and half what you
charge you won't be in business so don't worry about it.
At least that is what everyone who gets out of a business always seems to
say about some tech advance.

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 1:17 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

>
> Let's just say for arguments sake that Starlink gets a functional
> constellation in place with, oh, 2,000 satellites in orbit. Everything
> goes just swell, and they grow the constellation to 4,000 satellites by
> the end of 2022.
>
> In January 2023 the sun erupts with a massive CME and kills 75% of the
> satellites. not to mention similar percentages of the GPS sats and
> whatever else is in orbit at the time.
>
> Whoops.
>
> What next?
>
> --
> bp
> 
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell
-- 
AF mailing list
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Covid is over

[Lewis Bergman]

I always thought that when the 737 Max comes back the first year is exactly
when you want on that plane.

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 1:25 PM Robert Andrews 
wrote:

> Could this be the perfect finish for 2020?
>
> On 11/18/2020 11:13 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
> > may I please be excused from flying on a 737 max for a year or two?
> >
> >
> > bp
> > 
> >
> > On 11/18/2020 11:09 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> >>
> >>
> https://www.npr.org/2020/11/18/936080917/faa-gives-boeing-ok-to-resume-737-max-passenger-service
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: I was just thinking about Starlink...

[Ken Hohhof]

I'm watching news of the latest streaming service price increases.
Everything seems to be like that, something new and "disruptive" comes out,
kills off the competition, then they raise the prices.  It's like shopping
at Walmart for 5 years and then the Walmart closes or starts to suck and you
figure you'll go back to shopping at the local stores, except they no longer
exist.  What, you thought the grocery and hardware and drug stores would
just wait around with no revenue waiting for you to come back?

That's why I figure when someone runs fiber down the country road, I won't
bitch about losing the customers because they're getting something better
and it's probably permanent infrastructure.  Anything else, like satellite
or fixed wireless by mobile carriers, is tenuous.  But if it doesn't work
out after a few years, you may not have a WISP to switch back to.  And one
of the things I've realized (at least in my area), when a customer says this
other guy was faster, they mean this other guy was cheaper.  Especially if
they were on our lowest speed tier.  Price is everything.  If the advertised
speed looks fantastic, so much the better, but price is king.  Free is
better, but cheap will do.


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert Andrews
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 1:26 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: I was just thinking about Starlink...

Covid-23?   I believe I have seen a preview of that movie out...

On 11/18/2020 11:17 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
> 
> Let's just say for arguments sake that Starlink gets a functional 
> constellation in place with, oh, 2,000 satellites in orbit. Everything 
> goes just swell, and they grow the constellation to 4,000 satellites 
> by the end of 2022.
> 
> In January 2023 the sun erupts with a massive CME and kills 75% of the 
> satellites. not to mention similar percentages of the GPS sats and 
> whatever else is in orbit at the time.
> 
> Whoops.
> 
> What next?
> 

--
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Covid is over

[Ken Hohhof]

Can you imagine if Boeing had instead designed a totally new plane, which was 
just getting certified now, instead of sticking band aids on an aging design to 
meet competition from Airbus?  That’s what Boeing used to do.  They lost their 
way, and in the process, forgot how to design and build a quality product.

 

There’s no way they could have anticipated a pandemic when they took the quick 
route with the Max, and it doubles their pain that they would have had time to 
bring out a new, better design for that market, and the pilots are going to 
have to be retrained anyway.  But as a former Boeing shareholder, I think it 
was still a bad decision from a company that forgot why it existed.

 

It’s also sad to see the 747 stop flying.  It was designed for a different era 
with different economics, but it was still a great plane.  I always tried to 
book a 747 when I was flying overseas, and it also seemed to be the pinnacle of 
every pilot’s career to captain a 747.  Hey, remember when a commercial airline 
pilot was a well paid highly respected job, rather than glorified bus driver?  
When I was a kid, saying your dad was a pilot was like saying he was a doctor 
or lawyer.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Lewis Bergman
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 1:46 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Covid is over

 

I always thought that when the 737 Max comes back the first year is exactly 
when you want on that plane.

 

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 1:25 PM Robert Andrews mailto:i...@avantwireless.com> > wrote:

Could this be the perfect finish for 2020?

On 11/18/2020 11:13 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
> may I please be excused from flying on a 737 max for a year or two?
> 
> 
> bp
> 
> 
> On 11/18/2020 11:09 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>
>> https://www.npr.org/2020/11/18/936080917/faa-gives-boeing-ok-to-resume-737-max-passenger-service
>>
>>
> 
> 

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Re: [AFMUG] OT: I was just thinking about Starlink...

[Lewis Bergman]

I was stupid. For years I never raised my prices. Actually, more like a
decade. I did some research, massaged the numbers, instituted a lot of my
own guessing into it all. I came up with $8.26 cents. That $8.26 was the
price I thought I could raise my base service by and not lose significant
numbers.

Due to marketing BS I decided on $8 even rais over a base package of 24.99.
Out of thousands I lost one person that cited that as a reason for them
leaving. Only 6 bothered to even complain. I felt really stupid for not
doing it sooner. Even if I missed it by a factor of 10 it still means I
could have been charging WAY more than what I was for most of that 10 years.

But, your point is correct, If they want to come back or even reset the
market economics won't make sense any longer. Or at least they likely won't.

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 1:48 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> I'm watching news of the latest streaming service price increases.
> Everything seems to be like that, something new and "disruptive" comes out,
> kills off the competition, then they raise the prices.  It's like shopping
> at Walmart for 5 years and then the Walmart closes or starts to suck and
> you
> figure you'll go back to shopping at the local stores, except they no
> longer
> exist.  What, you thought the grocery and hardware and drug stores would
> just wait around with no revenue waiting for you to come back?
>
> That's why I figure when someone runs fiber down the country road, I won't
> bitch about losing the customers because they're getting something better
> and it's probably permanent infrastructure.  Anything else, like satellite
> or fixed wireless by mobile carriers, is tenuous.  But if it doesn't work
> out after a few years, you may not have a WISP to switch back to.  And one
> of the things I've realized (at least in my area), when a customer says
> this
> other guy was faster, they mean this other guy was cheaper.  Especially if
> they were on our lowest speed tier.  Price is everything.  If the
> advertised
> speed looks fantastic, so much the better, but price is king.  Free is
> better, but cheap will do.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert Andrews
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 1:26 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: I was just thinking about Starlink...
>
> Covid-23?   I believe I have seen a preview of that movie out...
>
> On 11/18/2020 11:17 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
> >
> > Let's just say for arguments sake that Starlink gets a functional
> > constellation in place with, oh, 2,000 satellites in orbit. Everything
> > goes just swell, and they grow the constellation to 4,000 satellites
> > by the end of 2022.
> >
> > In January 2023 the sun erupts with a massive CME and kills 75% of the
> > satellites. not to mention similar percentages of the GPS sats and
> > whatever else is in orbit at the time.
> >
> > Whoops.
> >
> > What next?
> >
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


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Re: [AFMUG] OT Covid is over

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Yeah. I looked at what they had to do to the 737 to get the more
  efficient engines strapped on. The big issue was (at least) that
  the larger diameter required that they be forward-mounted further
  in order to get them to clear the ground. Might have been simpler
  to re-design the landing gear to provide more ground clearance,
  but what do I know?


bp

On 11/18/2020 11:58 AM, Ken Hohhof
  wrote:


  
  
  
  
Can you imagine if Boeing had instead
  designed a totally new plane, which was just getting certified
  now, instead of sticking band aids on an aging design to meet
  competition from Airbus?  That’s what Boeing used to do.  They
  lost their way, and in the process, forgot how to design and
  build a quality product.
 
There’s no way they could have anticipated
  a pandemic when they took the quick route with the Max, and it
  doubles their pain that they would have had time to bring out
  a new, better design for that market, and the pilots are going
  to have to be retrained anyway.  But as a former Boeing
  shareholder, I think it was still a bad decision from a
  company that forgot why it existed.
 
It’s also sad to see the 747 stop flying. 
  It was designed for a different era with different economics,
  but it was still a great plane.  I always tried to book a 747
  when I was flying overseas, and it also seemed to be the
  pinnacle of every pilot’s career to captain a 747.  Hey,
  remember when a commercial airline pilot was a well paid
  highly respected job, rather than glorified bus driver?  When
  I was a kid, saying your dad was a pilot was like saying he
  was a doctor or lawyer.
 
 

  From: AF
 On Behalf Of Lewis
Bergman
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 1:46 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Covid is over

 

  I always thought that when the 737 Max
comes back the first year is exactly when you want on that
plane.

 

  
On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 1:25 PM Robert
  Andrews 
  wrote:
  
  
Could this be the perfect finish for
  2020?
  
  On 11/18/2020 11:13 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
  > may I please be excused from flying on a 737 max for
  a year or two?
  > 
  > 
  > bp
  > 
  > 
  > On 11/18/2020 11:09 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
  >>
  >> https://www.npr.org/2020/11/18/936080917/faa-gives-boeing-ok-to-resume-737-max-passenger-service
  >>
  >>
  > 
  > 
  
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-- 

  
Lewis Bergman

  325-439-0533 Cell

  

  
  
  

  


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Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

[Adam Moffett]

This reminds me of something that came up on the mailop.org mailing list 
a few months ago.


In Microsoft world (Hotmail, MSN, live.com, etc) there's a "Junk" button 
which moves messages to the "Junk" folder.  It also initiates feedback 
loop reports and can get senders blacklisted.


Well, in the USA there's a historical colloquial understanding that 
"junk" mail means unsolicited advertising.  If you're a young person who 
didn't grow up with Junk mail and Junk faxes, or if you're in another 
country looking at a translated view of the software, then what exactly 
is the difference between "Junk" and "Trash"?   As you might have 
guessed at this point, it's been found that some Microsoft mail users 
are using "Junk" as the delete button and thereby reporting every 
message as spam.



On 11/18/2020 1:05 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


It used to be the fix for AOL was to sign up for their “feedback 
loop”.  Basically they send you every message from your mailserver 
that some AOL customer clicked on “Report as Spam” and you are 
supposed to review them, in return they don’t blacklist you.  (is 
there a new non offensive term for blacklist?)


I’m not sure it’s still active.

Part of the problem is that AOL users aren’t the sharpest knives in 
the drawer, and many think the way to unsubscribe from a list is to 
click on “Report as Spam”.  I would say when we were reviewing 
supposed spam from the AOL feedback loop, at least 95% of it was not 
spam.  For example, we hosted mail for several churches.  New members 
or visitors would sign in with their contact info including an AOL 
email address, and the church would start sending them weekly 
newsletters.  And they would click on “Report as Spam”.  On the other 
hand, when an email customer got their credentials compromised and 
used to send spam, AOL would often be an early warning system.  But 
our mailserver throttles outgoing mail at 100 in an hour per account 
and notifies us, and that serves as an early warning system.


Customers with malware on their computers harvesting their email 
password is an ongoing problem. Sometimes we are changing email 
passwords every 2-3 weeks for the same customer until they disinfect 
all their devices.  The usual advice use a complex password is useless 
if it is being harvested with something like a keylogger.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Matt Corcoran
*Sent:* Wednesday, November 18, 2020 11:31 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

AOL has its own problems.    Only AOL customers cannot receive our 
email invoices and billing alerts.  I can’t get them to fix it.   
People don’t like me telling them to change email addresses.   But if 
the mail man regularly chucks your mail out the window, you need to 
talk to the postal service or switch to UPS.


*From: *AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> 
on behalf of Nate Burke mailto:n...@blastcomm.com>>
*Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >

*Date: *Wednesday, November 18, 2020 at 10:43 AM
*To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >

*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

Running the mail server is easy.  Continually managing the server is 
hard.  Hacked customer accounts, SMTP Relays, It's always 'YOUR' fault 
that they either cannot receive an email from a friend, or cannot send 
an email to that friend.  And the dreaded walking a customer through 
setting up their email client.


I.E. AOL randomly just dumps mail from me, their servers accept it, 
but never deliver it.  I have no idea why, or any rhyme or reason to 
it.  But it's MY fault when a customer can't send to their friend at 
AOL.  And now I'm spending time looking through logs etc.  That time 
all adds up.


On 11/18/2020 9:34 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

I don't know why people think it's difficult.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 







*From: *"Lewis Bergman" 

*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 

*Sent: *Tuesday, November 17, 2020 1:10:14 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

Or so he thinks. I hope it works out that way. it always seemed
really cheap to run a mail server, until you had to do it right.
Then it

[AFMUG] Mikrotik hAP ac status

[Ken Hohhof]

Is the hAP ac being discontinued or something?  Not the Lite or AC2 or AC3
or any other variants.  I realize it is overpriced, so it could be going
away.  Most home routers don't need an SFP cage and even that doesn't
explain why it costs over $100.  But nevertheless we buy them.

 

The reason I ask is I can't even find it on Streakwave's web site, but
Baltic claims to have almost 1500 of them on the shelf, which sounds like a
ton unless they bought up the remaining stock at a discount or something.
Or maybe somebody screwed up and ordered 1500 instead of 150 and they will
be working off that stock for the next 100 years.

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Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

[Bill Prince]

  
  
I hardly throw anything away. I think I have emails from as far
  back as 1992.


bp

On 11/18/2020 12:20 PM, Adam Moffett
  wrote:


  
  This reminds me of something that came up on the mailop.org
mailing list a few months ago.
  
  In Microsoft world (Hotmail, MSN, live.com, etc) there's a
"Junk" button which moves messages to the "Junk" folder.  It
also initiates feedback loop reports and can get senders
blacklisted.
  Well, in the USA there's a historical colloquial understanding
that "junk" mail means unsolicited advertising.  If you're a
young person who didn't grow up with Junk mail and Junk faxes,
or if you're in another country looking at a translated view of
the software, then what exactly is the difference between "Junk"
and "Trash"?   As you might have guessed at this point, it's
been found that some Microsoft mail users are using "Junk" as
the delete button and thereby reporting every message as spam. 

  
  
  
  On 11/18/2020 1:05 PM, Ken Hohhof
wrote:
  
  





  It used to be the fix for AOL was to sign
up for their “feedback loop”.  Basically they send you every
message from your mailserver that some AOL customer clicked
on “Report as Spam” and you are supposed to review them, in
return they don’t blacklist you.  (is there a new non
offensive term for blacklist?)
   
  I’m not sure it’s still active.
   
  Part of the problem is that AOL users
aren’t the sharpest knives in the drawer, and many think the
way to unsubscribe from a list is to click on “Report as
Spam”.  I would say when we were reviewing supposed spam
from the AOL feedback loop, at least 95% of it was not
spam.  For example, we hosted mail for several churches. 
New members or visitors would sign in with their contact
info including an AOL email address, and the church would
start sending them weekly newsletters.  And they would click
on “Report as Spam”.  On the other hand, when an email
customer got their credentials compromised and used to send
spam, AOL would often be an early warning system.  But our
mailserver throttles outgoing mail at 100 in an hour per
account and notifies us, and that serves as an early warning
system.
   
  Customers with malware on their computers
harvesting their email password is an ongoing problem. 
Sometimes we are changing email passwords every 2-3 weeks
for the same customer until they disinfect all their
devices.  The usual advice use a complex password is useless
if it is being harvested with something like a keylogger.
   
   
  

  From: AF 
On Behalf Of Matt Corcoran
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 11:31 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

  
   
  AOL has its own problems.    Only AOL
customers cannot receive our email invoices and billing
alerts.  I can’t get them to fix it.   People don’t like me
telling them to change email addresses.   But if the mail
man regularly chucks your mail out the window, you need to
talk to the postal service or switch to UPS.
   
  
From: AF 
on behalf of Nate Burke 
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 at 10:43 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update
issues
  
  
 
  
  Running the
mail server is easy.  Continually managing the server is
hard.  Hacked customer accounts, SMTP Relays, It's always
'YOUR' fault that they either cannot receive an email from a
friend, or cannot send an email to that friend.  And the
dreaded walking a customer through setting up their email
client.  

I.E. AOL randomly just dumps mail from me, their servers
accept it, but never deliver it.  I have no idea why, or any
rhyme or reason to it.  But it's MY fault when a customer
can't send to their friend at AOL.  And now I'm spending
time looking through logs etc.  That time all adds 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Covid is over

[Ken Hohhof]

Actually I meant a totally new design for the high efficiency market.  100% 
ground up new design.

 

I don’t know that much about commercial aircraft, but I don’t think the 777 was 
a rehash of anything, it was a new design, and well received.

 

But on the other hand, the military is really good at putting bandaids on old 
planes.  Good lord, look at the B52.  I wish the SR71 Blackbird was still 
flying.  Yeah, strap some more efficient engines on that.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 2:03 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Covid is over

 

Yeah. I looked at what they had to do to the 737 to get the more efficient 
engines strapped on. The big issue was (at least) that the larger diameter 
required that they be forward-mounted further in order to get them to clear the 
ground. Might have been simpler to re-design the landing gear to provide more 
ground clearance, but what do I know?

 

bp


On 11/18/2020 11:58 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Can you imagine if Boeing had instead designed a totally new plane, which was 
just getting certified now, instead of sticking band aids on an aging design to 
meet competition from Airbus?  That’s what Boeing used to do.  They lost their 
way, and in the process, forgot how to design and build a quality product.

 

There’s no way they could have anticipated a pandemic when they took the quick 
route with the Max, and it doubles their pain that they would have had time to 
bring out a new, better design for that market, and the pilots are going to 
have to be retrained anyway.  But as a former Boeing shareholder, I think it 
was still a bad decision from a company that forgot why it existed.

 

It’s also sad to see the 747 stop flying.  It was designed for a different era 
with different economics, but it was still a great plane.  I always tried to 
book a 747 when I was flying overseas, and it also seemed to be the pinnacle of 
every pilot’s career to captain a 747.  Hey, remember when a commercial airline 
pilot was a well paid highly respected job, rather than glorified bus driver?  
When I was a kid, saying your dad was a pilot was like saying he was a doctor 
or lawyer.

 

 

From: AF    On Behalf 
Of Lewis Bergman
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 1:46 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group   
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Covid is over

 

I always thought that when the 737 Max comes back the first year is exactly 
when you want on that plane.

 

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 1:25 PM Robert Andrews mailto:i...@avantwireless.com> > wrote:

Could this be the perfect finish for 2020?

On 11/18/2020 11:13 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
> may I please be excused from flying on a 737 max for a year or two?
> 
> 
> bp
> 
> 
> On 11/18/2020 11:09 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>
>> https://www.npr.org/2020/11/18/936080917/faa-gives-boeing-ok-to-resume-737-max-passenger-service
>>
>>
> 
> 

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325-439-0533 Cell





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Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

[Ken Hohhof]

Good news for AOL users – the world is dumbing down to your level.

 

We will be like the future in Idiocracy, where the dumbest guy from the past is 
now a genius by comparison.  Brawndo has what plants crave!

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 2:20 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

 

This reminds me of something that came up on the mailop.org mailing list a few 
months ago.

In Microsoft world (Hotmail, MSN, live.com, etc) there's a "Junk" button which 
moves messages to the "Junk" folder.  It also initiates feedback loop reports 
and can get senders blacklisted.

Well, in the USA there's a historical colloquial understanding that "junk" mail 
means unsolicited advertising.  If you're a young person who didn't grow up 
with Junk mail and Junk faxes, or if you're in another country looking at a 
translated view of the software, then what exactly is the difference between 
"Junk" and "Trash"?   As you might have guessed at this point, it's been found 
that some Microsoft mail users are using "Junk" as the delete button and 
thereby reporting every message as spam.  

 

On 11/18/2020 1:05 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

It used to be the fix for AOL was to sign up for their “feedback loop”.  
Basically they send you every message from your mailserver that some AOL 
customer clicked on “Report as Spam” and you are supposed to review them, in 
return they don’t blacklist you.  (is there a new non offensive term for 
blacklist?)

 

I’m not sure it’s still active.

 

Part of the problem is that AOL users aren’t the sharpest knives in the drawer, 
and many think the way to unsubscribe from a list is to click on “Report as 
Spam”.  I would say when we were reviewing supposed spam from the AOL feedback 
loop, at least 95% of it was not spam.  For example, we hosted mail for several 
churches.  New members or visitors would sign in with their contact info 
including an AOL email address, and the church would start sending them weekly 
newsletters.  And they would click on “Report as Spam”.  On the other hand, 
when an email customer got their credentials compromised and used to send spam, 
AOL would often be an early warning system.  But our mailserver throttles 
outgoing mail at 100 in an hour per account and notifies us, and that serves as 
an early warning system.

 

Customers with malware on their computers harvesting their email password is an 
ongoing problem.  Sometimes we are changing email passwords every 2-3 weeks for 
the same customer until they disinfect all their devices.  The usual advice use 
a complex password is useless if it is being harvested with something like a 
keylogger.

 

 

From: AF    On Behalf 
Of Matt Corcoran
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 11:31 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group   
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

 

AOL has its own problems.Only AOL customers cannot receive our email 
invoices and billing alerts.  I can’t get them to fix it.   People don’t like 
me telling them to change email addresses.   But if the mail man regularly 
chucks your mail out the window, you need to talk to the postal service or 
switch to UPS.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > on behalf 
of Nate Burke mailto:n...@blastcomm.com> >
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 at 10:43 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

 

Running the mail server is easy.  Continually managing the server is hard.  
Hacked customer accounts, SMTP Relays, It's always 'YOUR' fault that they 
either cannot receive an email from a friend, or cannot send an email to that 
friend.  And the dreaded walking a customer through setting up their email 
client.  

I.E. AOL randomly just dumps mail from me, their servers accept it, but never 
deliver it.  I have no idea why, or any rhyme or reason to it.  But it's MY 
fault when a customer can't send to their friend at AOL.  And now I'm spending 
time looking through logs etc.  That time all adds up.

On 11/18/2020 9:34 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

I don't know why people think it's difficult.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 





  _  


From: "Lewis Bergman"  

[AFMUG] Small 50lb generator run time

[Josh Luthman]

So I've been eyeing these Predator/Honda one hand size generators for a
while.  Right now we have a 6500/8500 generator that's got wheels and needs
a ramp.

The load is 10 - 125 watts.  Not much.  The generators now do a great job,
but it sucks to deal with something so heavy (especially when you fill the
tank only to have the power come back on a minute later!)

The little ones seem great, but I'm wondering what kind of run time you can
get with them with a 1 amp or less load.  It says 12 hours at 25% capacity
- is that possibly accurate?  If we're at 10% capacity does it seem safe to
say we could get 18 hours?  We're getting 12-18 hours with the big ones.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
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Re: [AFMUG] Small 50lb generator run time

[Nate Burke]

Are you talking about the propane ones?

30lb propane tank on 2300w inverter generator.  Easy to move in and out 
of the truck.


~30 hours at a site with 4 EPMP 1000 and 2 Rocket backhauls.


On 11/18/2020 2:43 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
So I've been eyeing these Predator/Honda one hand size generators for 
a while.  Right now we have a 6500/8500 generator that's got wheels 
and needs a ramp.


The load is 10 - 125 watts.  Not much.  The generators now do a great 
job, but it sucks to deal with something so heavy (especially when you 
fill the tank only to have the power come back on a minute later!)


The little ones seem great, but I'm wondering what kind of run time 
you can get with them with a 1 amp or less load.  It says 12 hours at 
25% capacity - is that possibly accurate?  If we're at 10% capacity 
does it seem safe to say we could get 18 hours?  We're getting 12-18 
hours with the big ones.


Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373




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Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Idiocracy. Is that the same as "Marching Morons"?


bp

On 11/18/2020 12:41 PM, Ken Hohhof
  wrote:


  
  
  
  
  
Good news for AOL users – the world is
  dumbing down to your level.
 
We will be like the future in Idiocracy,
  where the dumbest guy from the past is now a genius by
  comparison.  Brawndo has what plants crave!
 

  
From: AF
   On Behalf Of Adam
  Moffett
  Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 2:20 PM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues
  

 
This reminds me of something that came up on the mailop.org
  mailing list a few months ago.
In Microsoft world (Hotmail, MSN, live.com, etc) there's a
  "Junk" button which moves messages to the "Junk" folder.  It
  also initiates feedback loop reports and can get senders
  blacklisted.
Well, in the USA there's a historical colloquial
  understanding that "junk" mail means unsolicited advertising. 
  If you're a young person who didn't grow up with Junk mail and
  Junk faxes, or if you're in another country looking at a
  translated view of the software, then what exactly is the
  difference between "Junk" and "Trash"?   As you might have
  guessed at this point, it's been found that some Microsoft
  mail users are using "Junk" as the delete button and thereby
  reporting every message as spam.  
 

  On 11/18/2020 1:05 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


  It used to be the fix for AOL was to sign
up for their “feedback loop”.  Basically they send you every
message from your mailserver that some AOL customer clicked
on “Report as Spam” and you are supposed to review them, in
return they don’t blacklist you.  (is there a new non
offensive term for blacklist?)
   
  I’m not sure it’s still active.
   
  Part of the problem is that AOL users
aren’t the sharpest knives in the drawer, and many think the
way to unsubscribe from a list is to click on “Report as
Spam”.  I would say when we were reviewing supposed spam
from the AOL feedback loop, at least 95% of it was not
spam.  For example, we hosted mail for several churches. 
New members or visitors would sign in with their contact
info including an AOL email address, and the church would
start sending them weekly newsletters.  And they would click
on “Report as Spam”.  On the other hand, when an email
customer got their credentials compromised and used to send
spam, AOL would often be an early warning system.  But our
mailserver throttles outgoing mail at 100 in an hour per
account and notifies us, and that serves as an early warning
system.
   
  Customers with malware on their computers
harvesting their email password is an ongoing problem. 
Sometimes we are changing email passwords every 2-3 weeks
for the same customer until they disinfect all their
devices.  The usual advice use a complex password is useless
if it is being harvested with something like a keylogger.
   
   
  

  From: AF 
On Behalf Of Matt Corcoran
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 11:31 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

  
   
  AOL has its own problems.    Only AOL
customers cannot receive our email invoices and billing
alerts.  I can’t get them to fix it.   People don’t like me
telling them to change email addresses.   But if the mail
man regularly chucks your mail out the window, you need to
talk to the postal service or switch to UPS.
   
  
From: AF 
on behalf of Nate Burke 
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 at 10:43 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update
issues
  
  
 
  
  Running the
mail server is easy.  Continually managing the server is
hard.  Hacked customer accounts, SMTP Relays, It's always
'YOUR' fault that they either cannot receive an email fro

Re: [AFMUG] Small 50lb generator run time

[Jason Wilson]

I am getting about 18 hours on a good sized site.  I live in the land of
the wind blows the utility shuts off the power for a few days.

I have a fleet of the chinese honda knock offs.  the 25% capacity seems to
be up to.  I can run one unloaded for the same time.  I let it charge the
batteries and make a daily trip to refuel or put on a 6 gallon marine tank
and not worry about it for a few days.

Jason Wilson
Remotely Located
Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
530-651-1736
530-748-9608 Cell
www.remotelylocated.com


On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 12:49 PM Nate Burke  wrote:

> Are you talking about the propane ones?
>
> 30lb propane tank on 2300w inverter generator.  Easy to move in and out of
> the truck.
>
> ~30 hours at a site with 4 EPMP 1000 and 2 Rocket backhauls.
>
>
> On 11/18/2020 2:43 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> So I've been eyeing these Predator/Honda one hand size generators for a
> while.  Right now we have a 6500/8500 generator that's got wheels and needs
> a ramp.
>
> The load is 10 - 125 watts.  Not much.  The generators now do a great job,
> but it sucks to deal with something so heavy (especially when you fill the
> tank only to have the power come back on a minute later!)
>
> The little ones seem great, but I'm wondering what kind of run time you
> can get with them with a 1 amp or less load.  It says 12 hours at 25%
> capacity - is that possibly accurate?  If we're at 10% capacity does it
> seem safe to say we could get 18 hours?  We're getting 12-18 hours with the
> big ones.
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Covid is over

[Bill Prince]

  
  
I heard a rumor that an updated SR71 was working its way through
  the the skunk works.


bp

On 11/18/2020 12:38 PM, Ken Hohhof
  wrote:


  
  
  
  
Actually I meant a totally new design for
  the high efficiency market.  100% ground up new design.
 
I don’t know that much about commercial
  aircraft, but I don’t think the 777 was a rehash of anything,
  it was a new design, and well received.
 
But on the other hand, the military is
  really good at putting bandaids on old planes.  Good lord,
  look at the B52.  I wish the SR71 Blackbird was still flying. 
  Yeah, strap some more efficient engines on that.
 
 

  
From: AF
   On Behalf Of Bill
  Prince
  Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 2:03 PM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Covid is over
  

 
Yeah. I looked at what they had to do to the 737 to get the
  more efficient engines strapped on. The big issue was (at
  least) that the larger diameter required that they be
  forward-mounted further in order to get them to clear the
  ground. Might have been simpler to re-design the landing gear
  to provide more ground clearance, but what do I know?
 
bp


  On 11/18/2020 11:58 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


  Can you imagine if Boeing had instead
designed a totally new plane, which was just getting
certified now, instead of sticking band aids on an aging
design to meet competition from Airbus?  That’s what Boeing
used to do.  They lost their way, and in the process, forgot
how to design and build a quality product.
   
  There’s no way they could have
anticipated a pandemic when they took the quick route with
the Max, and it doubles their pain that they would have had
time to bring out a new, better design for that market, and
the pilots are going to have to be retrained anyway.  But as
a former Boeing shareholder, I think it was still a bad
decision from a company that forgot why it existed.
   
  It’s also sad to see the 747 stop
flying.  It was designed for a different era with different
economics, but it was still a great plane.  I always tried
to book a 747 when I was flying overseas, and it also seemed
to be the pinnacle of every pilot’s career to captain a
747.  Hey, remember when a commercial airline pilot was a
well paid highly respected job, rather than glorified bus
driver?  When I was a kid, saying your dad was a pilot was
like saying he was a doctor or lawyer.
   
   
  
From: AF 
  On Behalf Of Lewis Bergman
  Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 1:46 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Covid is over
  
   
  
I always thought that when the 737 Max
  comes back the first year is exactly when you want on that
  plane.
  
   
  

  On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 1:25 PM
Robert Andrews 
wrote:


  Could this be the perfect finish for
2020?

On 11/18/2020 11:13 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
> may I please be excused from flying on a 737 max
for a year or two?
> 
> 
> bp
> 
> 
> On 11/18/2020 11:09 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>
>> https://www.npr.org/2020/11/18/936080917/faa-gives-boeing-ok-to-resume-737-max-passenger-service
>>
>>
> 
> 

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  -- 
  

  Lewis Bergman
  
325-439-0533 Cell
  

  
  



  
  
  

  


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Re: [AFMUG] OT Covid is over

[Jason Wilson]

Fly a 737 Max or get a Covid Vaccine?

Jason Wilson
Remotely Located
Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
530-651-1736
530-748-9608 Cell
www.remotelylocated.com


On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 12:55 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> I heard a rumor that an updated SR71 was working its way through the the
> skunk works.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 11/18/2020 12:38 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> Actually I meant a totally new design for the high efficiency market.
> 100% ground up new design.
>
>
>
> I don’t know that much about commercial aircraft, but I don’t think the
> 777 was a rehash of anything, it was a new design, and well received.
>
>
>
> But on the other hand, the military is really good at putting bandaids on
> old planes.  Good lord, look at the B52.  I wish the SR71 Blackbird was
> still flying.  Yeah, strap some more efficient engines on that.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 18, 2020 2:03 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Covid is over
>
>
>
> Yeah. I looked at what they had to do to the 737 to get the more efficient
> engines strapped on. The big issue was (at least) that the larger diameter
> required that they be forward-mounted further in order to get them to clear
> the ground. Might have been simpler to re-design the landing gear to
> provide more ground clearance, but what do I know?
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
> On 11/18/2020 11:58 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> Can you imagine if Boeing had instead designed a totally new plane, which
> was just getting certified now, instead of sticking band aids on an aging
> design to meet competition from Airbus?  That’s what Boeing used to do.
> They lost their way, and in the process, forgot how to design and build a
> quality product.
>
>
>
> There’s no way they could have anticipated a pandemic when they took the
> quick route with the Max, and it doubles their pain that they would have
> had time to bring out a new, better design for that market, and the pilots
> are going to have to be retrained anyway.  But as a former Boeing
> shareholder, I think it was still a bad decision from a company that forgot
> why it existed.
>
>
>
> It’s also sad to see the 747 stop flying.  It was designed for a different
> era with different economics, but it was still a great plane.  I always
> tried to book a 747 when I was flying overseas, and it also seemed to be
> the pinnacle of every pilot’s career to captain a 747.  Hey, remember when
> a commercial airline pilot was a well paid highly respected job, rather
> than glorified bus driver?  When I was a kid, saying your dad was a pilot
> was like saying he was a doctor or lawyer.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 18, 2020 1:46 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Covid is over
>
>
>
> I always thought that when the 737 Max comes back the first year is
> exactly when you want on that plane.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 1:25 PM Robert Andrews 
> wrote:
>
> Could this be the perfect finish for 2020?
>
> On 11/18/2020 11:13 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
> > may I please be excused from flying on a 737 max for a year or two?
> >
> >
> > bp
> > 
> >
> > On 11/18/2020 11:09 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> >>
> >>
> https://www.npr.org/2020/11/18/936080917/faa-gives-boeing-ok-to-resume-737-max-passenger-service
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Lewis Bergman
>
> 325-439-0533 Cell
>
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Where does the money go?

[Steve Jones]

we dont ask about that

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 11:47 AM Bill Prince  wrote:

> The bulk is TV/radio advertising, which it is believed to be less and
> less effective, but it still spent. There is also newspapers, and postal
> flyers, staff, lawyers, consultants, polling. Russian trolls, Iranian
> trolls, Chinese trolls. Breitbart trolls. Fox trolls. Middle earth trolls.
>
> Trolls are generally cheap, but there are a lot of them.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 11/18/2020 8:36 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
> > Genuine question, I always here about Millions/Billions of Dollars
> > being spent on Elections.  Where does that money go?  $14B spent on
> > the last election.  Is there a new billionaire somewhere relaxing on
> > his yacht now?
> >
> > I understand most goes to advertising.  So that's like what, 6
> > networks/corporations.  But I don't' remember hearing anything about
> > 'Media company posts record profits this quarter'  It's like the money
> > just disappears, never to be heard about again, and the poor media
> > companies are barely making ends meet.
> >
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Small 50lb generator run time

[Steve Jones]

we use the big tank (80lb?) on our honda propane, will get 48 hours run
time and we have a dual tank fitting if it needs more. I tote it in a
minivan in the seat with the tanks seatbelted. you wont regret them. but
make sure oil is full of youll pend a couple hours trying to get it started
befor eyou feel stupid

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 2:55 PM Jason Wilson 
wrote:

> I am getting about 18 hours on a good sized site.  I live in the land of
> the wind blows the utility shuts off the power for a few days.
>
> I have a fleet of the chinese honda knock offs.  the 25% capacity seems to
> be up to.  I can run one unloaded for the same time.  I let it charge the
> batteries and make a daily trip to refuel or put on a 6 gallon marine tank
> and not worry about it for a few days.
>
> Jason Wilson
> Remotely Located
> Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
> 530-651-1736
> 530-748-9608 Cell
> www.remotelylocated.com
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 12:49 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
>
>> Are you talking about the propane ones?
>>
>> 30lb propane tank on 2300w inverter generator.  Easy to move in and out
>> of the truck.
>>
>> ~30 hours at a site with 4 EPMP 1000 and 2 Rocket backhauls.
>>
>>
>> On 11/18/2020 2:43 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>
>> So I've been eyeing these Predator/Honda one hand size generators for a
>> while.  Right now we have a 6500/8500 generator that's got wheels and needs
>> a ramp.
>>
>> The load is 10 - 125 watts.  Not much.  The generators now do a great
>> job, but it sucks to deal with something so heavy (especially when you fill
>> the tank only to have the power come back on a minute later!)
>>
>> The little ones seem great, but I'm wondering what kind of run time you
>> can get with them with a 1 amp or less load.  It says 12 hours at 25%
>> capacity - is that possibly accurate?  If we're at 10% capacity does it
>> seem safe to say we could get 18 hours?  We're getting 12-18 hours with the
>> big ones.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Small 50lb generator run time

[Ken Hohhof]

The runtime number sounds about right, assuming Eco Throttle enabled.  I think 
there is diminishing returns as you reduce the load, so the 18 hour number 
might be optimistic.

 

I have a 2.5 gallon extended runtime tank for my little (1000 VA) Honda and it 
will run for 2 days or more.  It pulls fuel from the external tank via vacuum.  
The Hondas have an actual fuel pump, I’m not sure this trick works with all 
generators.

 

Or if you use propane, you can get 20, 30, 50 lb tanks, or a kit to run from 
multiple tanks.

 

My larger Honda (these are all inverter style) is 2200 VA and with the handle 
it is still pretty easy to carry with one hand.  These are actually aimed at 
the camper market.  Anything larger and you probably want wheels although 
wheels won’t roll well at some sites.  Maybe more like throw it in the back of 
an ATV.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 2:43 PM
To: AFMUG 
Subject: [AFMUG] Small 50lb generator run time

 

So I've been eyeing these Predator/Honda one hand size generators for a while.  
Right now we have a 6500/8500 generator that's got wheels and needs a ramp.

 

The load is 10 - 125 watts.  Not much.  The generators now do a great job, but 
it sucks to deal with something so heavy (especially when you fill the tank 
only to have the power come back on a minute later!)

 

The little ones seem great, but I'm wondering what kind of run time you can get 
with them with a 1 amp or less load.  It says 12 hours at 25% capacity - is 
that possibly accurate?  If we're at 10% capacity does it seem safe to say we 
could get 18 hours?  We're getting 12-18 hours with the big ones.


 

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

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Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

[Ken Hohhof]

It’s a must-watch movie.  Although more like a documentary now.

 

Welcome to Costco.  I love you.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 2:53 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

 

Idiocracy. Is that the same as "Marching Morons"?

 

bp


On 11/18/2020 12:41 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Good news for AOL users – the world is dumbing down to your level.

 

We will be like the future in Idiocracy, where the dumbest guy from the past is 
now a genius by comparison.  Brawndo has what plants crave!

 

From: AF    On Behalf 
Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 2:20 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

 

This reminds me of something that came up on the mailop.org mailing list a few 
months ago.

In Microsoft world (Hotmail, MSN, live.com, etc) there's a "Junk" button which 
moves messages to the "Junk" folder.  It also initiates feedback loop reports 
and can get senders blacklisted.

Well, in the USA there's a historical colloquial understanding that "junk" mail 
means unsolicited advertising.  If you're a young person who didn't grow up 
with Junk mail and Junk faxes, or if you're in another country looking at a 
translated view of the software, then what exactly is the difference between 
"Junk" and "Trash"?   As you might have guessed at this point, it's been found 
that some Microsoft mail users are using "Junk" as the delete button and 
thereby reporting every message as spam.  

 

On 11/18/2020 1:05 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

It used to be the fix for AOL was to sign up for their “feedback loop”.  
Basically they send you every message from your mailserver that some AOL 
customer clicked on “Report as Spam” and you are supposed to review them, in 
return they don’t blacklist you.  (is there a new non offensive term for 
blacklist?)

 

I’m not sure it’s still active.

 

Part of the problem is that AOL users aren’t the sharpest knives in the drawer, 
and many think the way to unsubscribe from a list is to click on “Report as 
Spam”.  I would say when we were reviewing supposed spam from the AOL feedback 
loop, at least 95% of it was not spam.  For example, we hosted mail for several 
churches.  New members or visitors would sign in with their contact info 
including an AOL email address, and the church would start sending them weekly 
newsletters.  And they would click on “Report as Spam”.  On the other hand, 
when an email customer got their credentials compromised and used to send spam, 
AOL would often be an early warning system.  But our mailserver throttles 
outgoing mail at 100 in an hour per account and notifies us, and that serves as 
an early warning system.

 

Customers with malware on their computers harvesting their email password is an 
ongoing problem.  Sometimes we are changing email passwords every 2-3 weeks for 
the same customer until they disinfect all their devices.  The usual advice use 
a complex password is useless if it is being harvested with something like a 
keylogger.

 

 

From: AF    On Behalf 
Of Matt Corcoran
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 11:31 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group   
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

 

AOL has its own problems.Only AOL customers cannot receive our email 
invoices and billing alerts.  I can’t get them to fix it.   People don’t like 
me telling them to change email addresses.   But if the mail man regularly 
chucks your mail out the window, you need to talk to the postal service or 
switch to UPS.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > on behalf 
of Nate Burke mailto:n...@blastcomm.com> >
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 at 10:43 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

 

Running the mail server is easy.  Continually managing the server is hard.  
Hacked customer accounts, SMTP Relays, It's always 'YOUR' fault that they 
either cannot receive an email from a friend, or cannot send an email to that 
friend.  And the dreaded walking a customer through setting up their email 
client.  

I.E. AOL randomly just dumps mail from me, their servers accept it, but never 
deliver it.  I have no idea why, or any rhyme or reason to it.  But it's MY 
fault when a customer can't send to their friend at AOL.  And now I'm spending 
time looking through logs etc.  That time all adds up.

On 11/18/2020 9:34 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

I don't know why people think it's difficult.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  

Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

[Nate Burke]

I was always confused why some technology still worked, but other 
didn't.  Who was keeping the police bar code readers working, and how 
were they still doing TV Transmission.  The arena battle I understand, 
keeping an engine running, and making it bigger and bigger is easy.


On 11/18/2020 3:13 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


It’s a must-watch movie.  Although more like a documentary now.

Welcome to Costco.  I love you.

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
*Sent:* Wednesday, November 18, 2020 2:53 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

Idiocracy. Is that the same as "Marching Morons"?

bp


On 11/18/2020 12:41 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Good news for AOL users – the world is dumbing down to your level.

We will be like the future in Idiocracy, where the dumbest guy
from the past is now a genius by comparison.  Brawndo has what
plants crave!

*From:* AF 
 *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Wednesday, November 18, 2020 2:20 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

This reminds me of something that came up on the mailop.org
mailing list a few months ago.

In Microsoft world (Hotmail, MSN, live.com, etc) there's a "Junk"
button which moves messages to the "Junk" folder.  It also
initiates feedback loop reports and can get senders blacklisted.

Well, in the USA there's a historical colloquial understanding
that "junk" mail means unsolicited advertising.  If you're a young
person who didn't grow up with Junk mail and Junk faxes, or if
you're in another country looking at a translated view of the
software, then what exactly is the difference between "Junk" and
"Trash"? As you might have guessed at this point, it's been found
that some Microsoft mail users are using "Junk" as the delete
button and thereby reporting every message as spam.

On 11/18/2020 1:05 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

It used to be the fix for AOL was to sign up for their
“feedback loop”.  Basically they send you every message from
your mailserver that some AOL customer clicked on “Report as
Spam” and you are supposed to review them, in return they
don’t blacklist you.  (is there a new non offensive term for
blacklist?)

I’m not sure it’s still active.

Part of the problem is that AOL users aren’t the sharpest
knives in the drawer, and many think the way to unsubscribe
from a list is to click on “Report as Spam”.  I would say when
we were reviewing supposed spam from the AOL feedback loop, at
least 95% of it was not spam.  For example, we hosted mail for
several churches.  New members or visitors would sign in with
their contact info including an AOL email address, and the
church would start sending them weekly newsletters.  And they
would click on “Report as Spam”.  On the other hand, when an
email customer got their credentials compromised and used to
send spam, AOL would often be an early warning system.  But
our mailserver throttles outgoing mail at 100 in an hour per
account and notifies us, and that serves as an early warning
system.

Customers with malware on their computers harvesting their
email password is an ongoing problem.  Sometimes we are
changing email passwords every 2-3 weeks for the same customer
until they disinfect all their devices.  The usual advice use
a complex password is useless if it is being harvested with
something like a keylogger.

*From:* AF 
 *On Behalf Of *Matt Corcoran
*Sent:* Wednesday, November 18, 2020 11:31 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

AOL has its own problems.Only AOL customers cannot receive
our email invoices and billing alerts.  I can’t get them to
fix it.   People don’t like me telling them to change email
addresses.   But if the mail man regularly chucks your mail
out the window, you need to talk to the postal service or
switch to UPS.

*From: *AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> on behalf of Nate Burke
mailto:n...@blastcomm.com>>
*Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Date: *Wednesday, November 18, 2020 at 10:43 AM
*To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

Running the mail server is easy.  Continually managing the
server is hard.  Hacked customer accounts, SMTP Relays, It's
always 'YOUR' fault that they either cannot receive an email
from a friend, or cannot send an email to

Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Apparently, Idiocracy borrowed part of its plot from Marching
  Morons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Marching_Morons

bp

On 11/18/2020 1:13 PM, Ken Hohhof
  wrote:


  
  
  
  
  
It’s a must-watch movie.  Although more
  like a documentary now.
 
Welcome to Costco.  I love you.
 

  
From: AF
   On Behalf Of Bill
  Prince
  Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 2:53 PM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues
  

 
Idiocracy. Is that the same as "Marching Morons"?
 
bp


  On 11/18/2020 12:41 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


  Good news for AOL users – the world is
dumbing down to your level.
   
  We will be like the future in Idiocracy,
where the dumbest guy from the past is now a genius by
comparison.  Brawndo has what plants crave!
   
  

  From: AF 
On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 2:20 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

  
   
  This reminds me of something that came up on the mailop.org
mailing list a few months ago.
  In Microsoft world (Hotmail, MSN, live.com, etc) there's a
"Junk" button which moves messages to the "Junk" folder.  It
also initiates feedback loop reports and can get senders
blacklisted.
  Well, in the USA there's a historical colloquial
understanding that "junk" mail means unsolicited
advertising.  If you're a young person who didn't grow up
with Junk mail and Junk faxes, or if you're in another
country looking at a translated view of the software, then
what exactly is the difference between "Junk" and "Trash"?  
As you might have guessed at this point, it's been found
that some Microsoft mail users are using "Junk" as the
delete button and thereby reporting every message as spam. 

   
  
On 11/18/2020 1:05 PM, Ken Hohhof
  wrote:
  
  
It used to be the fix for AOL was to
  sign up for their “feedback loop”.  Basically they send
  you every message from your mailserver that some AOL
  customer clicked on “Report as Spam” and you are supposed
  to review them, in return they don’t blacklist you.  (is
  there a new non offensive term for blacklist?)
 
I’m not sure it’s still active.
 
Part of the problem is that AOL users
  aren’t the sharpest knives in the drawer, and many think
  the way to unsubscribe from a list is to click on “Report
  as Spam”.  I would say when we were reviewing supposed
  spam from the AOL feedback loop, at least 95% of it was
  not spam.  For example, we hosted mail for several
  churches.  New members or visitors would sign in with
  their contact info including an AOL email address, and the
  church would start sending them weekly newsletters.  And
  they would click on “Report as Spam”.  On the other hand,
  when an email customer got their credentials compromised
  and used to send spam, AOL would often be an early warning
  system.  But our mailserver throttles outgoing mail at 100
  in an hour per account and notifies us, and that serves as
  an early warning system.
 
Customers with malware on their
  computers harvesting their email password is an ongoing
  problem.  Sometimes we are changing email passwords every
  2-3 weeks for the same customer until they disinfect all
  their devices.  The usual advice use a complex password is
  useless if it is being harvested with something like a
  keylogger.
 
 

  
From: AF 
  On Behalf Of Matt Corcoran
  Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 11:31 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update
  issues
  

 
AOL has its own problems.    Only AOL
  customers cannot receive our email invoices and billing
  alerts.  I can’t get them to fix it.   People don’t like
  me telling them

Re: [AFMUG] OT Covid is over

[Robert Andrews]

The Max was all about not having to re-certify the pilots as it was 
supposed to fly like all the older 737's.  That is a huge cost for the 
airlines and was the competitive advantage that sold so many Max's into 
the existing fleets.  Boeing was/is designing a replacement, but you 
cannot convince Southwest to have to do two sets of training.


On 11/18/2020 11:58 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Can you imagine if Boeing had instead designed a totally new plane, 
which was just getting certified now, instead of sticking band aids on 
an aging design to meet competition from Airbus?  That’s what Boeing 
used to do.  They lost their way, and in the process, forgot how to 
design and build a quality product.


There’s no way they could have anticipated a pandemic when they took the 
quick route with the Max, and it doubles their pain that they would have 
had time to bring out a new, better design for that market, and the 
pilots are going to have to be retrained anyway.  But as a former Boeing 
shareholder, I think it was still a bad decision from a company that 
forgot why it existed.


It’s also sad to see the 747 stop flying.  It was designed for a 
different era with different economics, but it was still a great plane.  
I always tried to book a 747 when I was flying overseas, and it also 
seemed to be the pinnacle of every pilot’s career to captain a 747.  
Hey, remember when a commercial airline pilot was a well paid highly 
respected job, rather than glorified bus driver?  When I was a kid, 
saying your dad was a pilot was like saying he was a doctor or lawyer.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Lewis Bergman
*Sent:* Wednesday, November 18, 2020 1:46 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Covid is over

I always thought that when the 737 Max comes back the first year is 
exactly when you want on that plane.


On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 1:25 PM Robert Andrews > wrote:


Could this be the perfect finish for 2020?

On 11/18/2020 11:13 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
 > may I please be excused from flying on a 737 max for a year or two?
 >
 >
 > bp
 > 
 >
 > On 11/18/2020 11:09 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
 >>
 >>

https://www.npr.org/2020/11/18/936080917/faa-gives-boeing-ok-to-resume-737-max-passenger-service
 >>
 >>
 >
 >

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


--

Lewis Bergman

325-439-0533 Cell





--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

[AFMUG] streaming devices up/down ratio

[Steve Jones]

Whats an average ratio for usage on streamers like roku? I have a customer
we just started logging some usage on and they have a roku thats done about
50gb down, but 1.5bg up. That seems like a lot of upload. is this normal?
Id expect that to be in the low MBs since its mostly UDP traffic
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

[Ken Hohhof]

I did not realize Marching Morons was an actual film.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 3:21 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

 

Apparently, Idiocracy borrowed part of its plot from Marching Morons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Marching_Morons

bp


On 11/18/2020 1:13 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

It’s a must-watch movie.  Although more like a documentary now.

 

Welcome to Costco.  I love you.

 

From: AF    On Behalf 
Of Bill Prince
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 2:53 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

 

Idiocracy. Is that the same as "Marching Morons"?

 

bp


On 11/18/2020 12:41 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Good news for AOL users – the world is dumbing down to your level.

 

We will be like the future in Idiocracy, where the dumbest guy from the past is 
now a genius by comparison.  Brawndo has what plants crave!

 

From: AF    On Behalf 
Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 2:20 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

 

This reminds me of something that came up on the mailop.org mailing list a few 
months ago.

In Microsoft world (Hotmail, MSN, live.com, etc) there's a "Junk" button which 
moves messages to the "Junk" folder.  It also initiates feedback loop reports 
and can get senders blacklisted.

Well, in the USA there's a historical colloquial understanding that "junk" mail 
means unsolicited advertising.  If you're a young person who didn't grow up 
with Junk mail and Junk faxes, or if you're in another country looking at a 
translated view of the software, then what exactly is the difference between 
"Junk" and "Trash"?   As you might have guessed at this point, it's been found 
that some Microsoft mail users are using "Junk" as the delete button and 
thereby reporting every message as spam.  

 

On 11/18/2020 1:05 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

It used to be the fix for AOL was to sign up for their “feedback loop”.  
Basically they send you every message from your mailserver that some AOL 
customer clicked on “Report as Spam” and you are supposed to review them, in 
return they don’t blacklist you.  (is there a new non offensive term for 
blacklist?)

 

I’m not sure it’s still active.

 

Part of the problem is that AOL users aren’t the sharpest knives in the drawer, 
and many think the way to unsubscribe from a list is to click on “Report as 
Spam”.  I would say when we were reviewing supposed spam from the AOL feedback 
loop, at least 95% of it was not spam.  For example, we hosted mail for several 
churches.  New members or visitors would sign in with their contact info 
including an AOL email address, and the church would start sending them weekly 
newsletters.  And they would click on “Report as Spam”.  On the other hand, 
when an email customer got their credentials compromised and used to send spam, 
AOL would often be an early warning system.  But our mailserver throttles 
outgoing mail at 100 in an hour per account and notifies us, and that serves as 
an early warning system.

 

Customers with malware on their computers harvesting their email password is an 
ongoing problem.  Sometimes we are changing email passwords every 2-3 weeks for 
the same customer until they disinfect all their devices.  The usual advice use 
a complex password is useless if it is being harvested with something like a 
keylogger.

 

 

From: AF    On Behalf 
Of Matt Corcoran
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 11:31 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group   
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

 

AOL has its own problems.Only AOL customers cannot receive our email 
invoices and billing alerts.  I can’t get them to fix it.   People don’t like 
me telling them to change email addresses.   But if the mail man regularly 
chucks your mail out the window, you need to talk to the postal service or 
switch to UPS.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > on behalf 
of Nate Burke mailto:n...@blastcomm.com> >
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 at 10:43 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

 

Running the mail server is easy.  Continually managing the server is hard.  
Hacked customer accounts, SMTP Relays, It's always 'YOUR' fault that they 
either cannot receive an email from a friend, or cannot send an email to that 
friend.  And the dreaded walking a customer through setting up their email 
client.  

I.E. AOL randomly just dumps mail from me, their servers accept it, but never 
deliver it.  I have no idea why, or any rhyme or reason to it.  But it's MY 
fault when a customer can't send to their friend at AOL.  An

Re: [AFMUG] streaming devices up/down ratio

[Ken Hohhof]

Are you sure?  I thought most streaming services used TCP and in fact HTTP or 
HTTPS.  Are you talking about Roku Channel, or just generically a Roku 
streaming device?

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 3:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] streaming devices up/down ratio

 

Whats an average ratio for usage on streamers like roku? I have a customer we 
just started logging some usage on and they have a roku thats done about 50gb 
down, but 1.5bg up. That seems like a lot of upload. is this normal? Id expect 
that to be in the low MBs since its mostly UDP traffic

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] streaming devices up/down ratio

[Nate Burke]

Right now I'm running a FireTV running Netflix.  It's about 5mb/s down 
x  50kb/s up.


Chromecast running Disney+ is 10mb/s down and almost 400kb/s up.

On 11/18/2020 4:12 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


Are you sure?  I thought most streaming services used TCP and in fact 
HTTP or HTTPS.  Are you talking about Roku Channel, or just 
generically a Roku streaming device?


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Wednesday, November 18, 2020 3:50 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] streaming devices up/down ratio

Whats an average ratio for usage on streamers like roku? I have a 
customer we just started logging some usage on and they have a roku 
thats done about 50gb down, but 1.5bg up. That seems like a lot of 
upload. is this normal? Id expect that to be in the low MBs since its 
mostly UDP traffic






-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: I was just thinking about Starlink...

[castarritt]

I think Starlink is in a low enough orbit that the Earth's magnetic field
will protect them from the CME charged particles that fry geostationary
satellites.  I suppose a bad solar flare might actually help Starlink if it
takes out the competition.  Better keep a close eye on any Starships flying
off towards the Sun, we don't want any funny business.

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 1:17 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

>
> Let's just say for arguments sake that Starlink gets a functional
> constellation in place with, oh, 2,000 satellites in orbit. Everything
> goes just swell, and they grow the constellation to 4,000 satellites by
> the end of 2022.
>
> In January 2023 the sun erupts with a massive CME and kills 75% of the
> satellites. not to mention similar percentages of the GPS sats and
> whatever else is in orbit at the time.
>
> Whoops.
>
> What next?
>
> --
> bp
> 
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

[Matt Corcoran]

Ok, so  I understand the difference between the Trash and Junk folders now.
But what exactly happens when I put mail in the “Recycle Bin”? ha ha



From: AF  on behalf of Adam Moffett 

Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 at 3:21 PM
To: "af@af.afmug.com" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues


This reminds me of something that came up on the mailop.org mailing list a few 
months ago.

In Microsoft world (Hotmail, MSN, live.com, etc) there's a "Junk" button which 
moves messages to the "Junk" folder.  It also initiates feedback loop reports 
and can get senders blacklisted.

Well, in the USA there's a historical colloquial understanding that "junk" mail 
means unsolicited advertising.  If you're a young person who didn't grow up 
with Junk mail and Junk faxes, or if you're in another country looking at a 
translated view of the software, then what exactly is the difference between 
"Junk" and "Trash"?   As you might have guessed at this point, it's been found 
that some Microsoft mail users are using "Junk" as the delete button and 
thereby reporting every message as spam.


On 11/18/2020 1:05 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
It used to be the fix for AOL was to sign up for their “feedback loop”.  
Basically they send you every message from your mailserver that some AOL 
customer clicked on “Report as Spam” and you are supposed to review them, in 
return they don’t blacklist you.  (is there a new non offensive term for 
blacklist?)

I’m not sure it’s still active.

Part of the problem is that AOL users aren’t the sharpest knives in the drawer, 
and many think the way to unsubscribe from a list is to click on “Report as 
Spam”.  I would say when we were reviewing supposed spam from the AOL feedback 
loop, at least 95% of it was not spam.  For example, we hosted mail for several 
churches.  New members or visitors would sign in with their contact info 
including an AOL email address, and the church would start sending them weekly 
newsletters.  And they would click on “Report as Spam”.  On the other hand, 
when an email customer got their credentials compromised and used to send spam, 
AOL would often be an early warning system.  But our mailserver throttles 
outgoing mail at 100 in an hour per account and notifies us, and that serves as 
an early warning system.

Customers with malware on their computers harvesting their email password is an 
ongoing problem.  Sometimes we are changing email passwords every 2-3 weeks for 
the same customer until they disinfect all their devices.  The usual advice use 
a complex password is useless if it is being harvested with something like a 
keylogger.


From: AF  On Behalf Of 
Matt Corcoran
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 11:31 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

AOL has its own problems.Only AOL customers cannot receive our email 
invoices and billing alerts.  I can’t get them to fix it.   People don’t like 
me telling them to change email addresses.   But if the mail man regularly 
chucks your mail out the window, you need to talk to the postal service or 
switch to UPS.

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> on behalf of 
Nate Burke mailto:n...@blastcomm.com>>
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 at 10:43 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

Running the mail server is easy.  Continually managing the server is hard.  
Hacked customer accounts, SMTP Relays, It's always 'YOUR' fault that they 
either cannot receive an email from a friend, or cannot send an email to that 
friend.  And the dreaded walking a customer through setting up their email 
client.

I.E. AOL randomly just dumps mail from me, their servers accept it, but never 
deliver it.  I have no idea why, or any rhyme or reason to it.  But it's MY 
fault when a customer can't send to their friend at AOL.  And now I'm spending 
time looking through logs etc.  That time all adds up.
On 11/18/2020 9:34 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
I don't know why people think it's difficult.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]

Re: [AFMUG] streaming devices up/down ratio

[Steve Jones]

Not sure, I just assumed. Probably wrong

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020, 4:13 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Are you sure?  I thought most streaming services used TCP and in fact HTTP
> or HTTPS.  Are you talking about Roku Channel, or just generically a Roku
> streaming device?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 18, 2020 3:50 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] streaming devices up/down ratio
>
>
>
> Whats an average ratio for usage on streamers like roku? I have a customer
> we just started logging some usage on and they have a roku thats done about
> 50gb down, but 1.5bg up. That seems like a lot of upload. is this normal?
> Id expect that to be in the low MBs since its mostly UDP traffic
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: I was just thinking about Starlink...

[Bill Prince]

  
  
A bad enough solar flare is expected to take out parts of the
  power grid all over earth. I would think those are well inside the
  magnetosphere.


bp

On 11/18/2020 2:54 PM, castarritt
  wrote:


  
  I think Starlink is in a low enough orbit that the
Earth's magnetic field will protect them from the CME charged
particles that fry geostationary satellites.  I suppose a bad
solar flare might actually help Starlink if it takes out the
competition.  Better keep a close eye on any Starships flying
off towards the Sun, we don't want any funny business.
  
  
On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 1:17
  PM Bill Prince  wrote:


  Let's just say for arguments sake that Starlink gets a
  functional 
  constellation in place with, oh, 2,000 satellites in orbit.
  Everything 
  goes just swell, and they grow the constellation to 4,000
  satellites by 
  the end of 2022.
  
  In January 2023 the sun erupts with a massive CME and kills
  75% of the 
  satellites. not to mention similar percentages of the GPS sats
  and 
  whatever else is in orbit at the time.
  
  Whoops.
  
  What next?
  
  -- 
  bp
  
  
  
  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

  
  
  

  


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

[Bill Prince]

  
  
It wasn't. It was a short story way back when.

bp

On 11/18/2020 2:09 PM, Ken Hohhof
  wrote:


  
  
  
  
  
I did not realize Marching Morons was an
  actual film.
 

  
From: AF
   On Behalf Of Bill
  Prince
  Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 3:21 PM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues
  

 
Apparently, Idiocracy borrowed part of its plot from Marching
  Morons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Marching_Morons
bp


  On 11/18/2020 1:13 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


  It’s a must-watch movie.  Although more
like a documentary now.
   
  Welcome to Costco.  I love you.
   
  

  From: AF 
On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 2:53 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

  
   
  Idiocracy. Is that the same as "Marching Morons"?
   
  bp
  
  
On 11/18/2020 12:41 PM, Ken Hohhof
  wrote:
  
  
Good news for AOL users – the world is
  dumbing down to your level.
 
We will be like the future in
  Idiocracy, where the dumbest guy from the past is now a
  genius by comparison.  Brawndo has what plants crave!
 

  
From: AF 
  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
  Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 2:20 PM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update
  issues
  

 
This reminds me of something that came up on the
  mailop.org mailing list a few months ago.
In Microsoft world (Hotmail, MSN, live.com, etc) there's
  a "Junk" button which moves messages to the "Junk"
  folder.  It also initiates feedback loop reports and can
  get senders blacklisted.
Well, in the USA there's a historical colloquial
  understanding that "junk" mail means unsolicited
  advertising.  If you're a young person who didn't grow up
  with Junk mail and Junk faxes, or if you're in another
  country looking at a translated view of the software, then
  what exactly is the difference between "Junk" and
  "Trash"?   As you might have guessed at this point, it's
  been found that some Microsoft mail users are using "Junk"
  as the delete button and thereby reporting every message
  as spam.  
 

  On 11/18/2020 1:05 PM, Ken Hohhof
wrote:


  It used to be the fix for AOL was to
sign up for their “feedback loop”.  Basically they send
you every message from your mailserver that some AOL
customer clicked on “Report as Spam” and you are
supposed to review them, in return they don’t blacklist
you.  (is there a new non offensive term for blacklist?)
   
  I’m not sure it’s still active.
   
  Part of the problem is that AOL users
aren’t the sharpest knives in the drawer, and many think
the way to unsubscribe from a list is to click on
“Report as Spam”.  I would say when we were reviewing
supposed spam from the AOL feedback loop, at least 95%
of it was not spam.  For example, we hosted mail for
several churches.  New members or visitors would sign in
with their contact info including an AOL email address,
and the church would start sending them weekly
newsletters.  And they would click on “Report as Spam”. 
On the other hand, when an email customer got their
credentials compromised and used to send spam, AOL would
often be an early warning system.  But our mailserver
throttles outgoing mail at 100 in an hour per account
and notifies us, and that serves as an early warning
system.
   
  Customers with malware on their
computers harvesting their email password is an ongoing
problem.  Sometimes we are changing email passwords
every 2-3 weeks for the same customer until they
disinfect all their

Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

[Ken Hohhof]

Oops, wrong again.  I assumed it was just a general pejorative term, like “What 
a maroon!”  And not an actual thing.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 6:11 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

 

It wasn't. It was a short story way back when.

bp


On 11/18/2020 2:09 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I did not realize Marching Morons was an actual film.

 

From: AF    On Behalf 
Of Bill Prince
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 3:21 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

 

Apparently, Idiocracy borrowed part of its plot from Marching Morons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Marching_Morons

bp


On 11/18/2020 1:13 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

It’s a must-watch movie.  Although more like a documentary now.

 

Welcome to Costco.  I love you.

 

From: AF    On Behalf 
Of Bill Prince
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 2:53 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

 

Idiocracy. Is that the same as "Marching Morons"?

 

bp


On 11/18/2020 12:41 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Good news for AOL users – the world is dumbing down to your level.

 

We will be like the future in Idiocracy, where the dumbest guy from the past is 
now a genius by comparison.  Brawndo has what plants crave!

 

From: AF    On Behalf 
Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 2:20 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

 

This reminds me of something that came up on the mailop.org mailing list a few 
months ago.

In Microsoft world (Hotmail, MSN, live.com, etc) there's a "Junk" button which 
moves messages to the "Junk" folder.  It also initiates feedback loop reports 
and can get senders blacklisted.

Well, in the USA there's a historical colloquial understanding that "junk" mail 
means unsolicited advertising.  If you're a young person who didn't grow up 
with Junk mail and Junk faxes, or if you're in another country looking at a 
translated view of the software, then what exactly is the difference between 
"Junk" and "Trash"?   As you might have guessed at this point, it's been found 
that some Microsoft mail users are using "Junk" as the delete button and 
thereby reporting every message as spam.  

 

On 11/18/2020 1:05 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

It used to be the fix for AOL was to sign up for their “feedback loop”.  
Basically they send you every message from your mailserver that some AOL 
customer clicked on “Report as Spam” and you are supposed to review them, in 
return they don’t blacklist you.  (is there a new non offensive term for 
blacklist?)

 

I’m not sure it’s still active.

 

Part of the problem is that AOL users aren’t the sharpest knives in the drawer, 
and many think the way to unsubscribe from a list is to click on “Report as 
Spam”.  I would say when we were reviewing supposed spam from the AOL feedback 
loop, at least 95% of it was not spam.  For example, we hosted mail for several 
churches.  New members or visitors would sign in with their contact info 
including an AOL email address, and the church would start sending them weekly 
newsletters.  And they would click on “Report as Spam”.  On the other hand, 
when an email customer got their credentials compromised and used to send spam, 
AOL would often be an early warning system.  But our mailserver throttles 
outgoing mail at 100 in an hour per account and notifies us, and that serves as 
an early warning system.

 

Customers with malware on their computers harvesting their email password is an 
ongoing problem.  Sometimes we are changing email passwords every 2-3 weeks for 
the same customer until they disinfect all their devices.  The usual advice use 
a complex password is useless if it is being harvested with something like a 
keylogger.

 

 

From: AF    On Behalf 
Of Matt Corcoran
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 11:31 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group   
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

 

AOL has its own problems.Only AOL customers cannot receive our email 
invoices and billing alerts.  I can’t get them to fix it.   People don’t like 
me telling them to change email addresses.   But if the mail man regularly 
chucks your mail out the window, you need to talk to the postal service or 
switch to UPS.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > on behalf 
of Nate Burke mailto:n...@blastcomm.com> >
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 at 10:43 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

 

Running the mail server is easy.  Continually managing the server is hard.  
Hacked customer accounts, S

[AFMUG] 5.850-5.925Ghz immediately available for indoor use, outdoor use with approval

[Peter Kranz via AF]

Looks like we may have 45Mhz of additional frequencies to use pretty soon.

 

""Full-power indoor unlicensed operations" are authorized immediately, while
"outdoor unlicensed use" will be allowed "on a coordinated basis under
certain circumstances," the FCC said."

 

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/11/fcc-adds-45mhz-to-wi-fi-promisin
g-supersize-networks-on-5ghz-band/

 

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com  
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com  

 

 

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Re: [AFMUG] 5.850-5.925Ghz immediately available for indoor use, outdoor use with approval

[Matt Hoppes]

What is this conditional basis?

> On Nov 18, 2020, at 7:35 PM, Peter Kranz via AF  wrote:
> 
> 
> Looks like we may have 45Mhz of additional frequencies to use pretty soon.
>  
> ““Full-power indoor unlicensed operations" are authorized immediately, while 
> "outdoor unlicensed use" will be allowed "on a coordinated basis under 
> certain circumstances," the FCC said.”
>  
> https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/11/fcc-adds-45mhz-to-wi-fi-promising-supersize-networks-on-5ghz-band/
>  
> Peter Kranz
> www.UnwiredLtd.com
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>  
>  
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] 5.850-5.925Ghz immediately available for indoor use, outdoor use with approval

[Peter Kranz via AF]

I’m guessing the STA process.

 

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com  
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com  

 

From: Matt Hoppes  
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 4:37 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Peter Kranz 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 5.850-5.925Ghz immediately available for indoor use, 
outdoor use with approval

 

What is this conditional basis?





On Nov 18, 2020, at 7:35 PM, Peter Kranz via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > wrote:



Looks like we may have 45Mhz of additional frequencies to use pretty soon.

 

““Full-power indoor unlicensed operations" are authorized immediately, while 
"outdoor unlicensed use" will be allowed "on a coordinated basis under certain 
circumstances," the FCC said.”

 

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/11/fcc-adds-45mhz-to-wi-fi-promising-supersize-networks-on-5ghz-band/

 

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com  
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com  

 

 

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Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik hAP ac status

[Omni Flux via AF]

Streakwave still has a few in stock, I see it when I search for hAP, but if
you search for RB962 it should be the only result.

-- 
Omni Flux

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 1:30 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Is the hAP ac being discontinued or something?  Not the Lite or AC2 or AC3
> or any other variants.  I realize it is overpriced, so it could be going
> away.  Most home routers don’t need an SFP cage and even that doesn’t
> explain why it costs over $100.  But nevertheless we buy them.
>
>
>
> The reason I ask is I can’t even find it on Streakwave’s web site, but
> Baltic claims to have almost 1500 of them on the shelf, which sounds like a
> ton unless they bought up the remaining stock at a discount or something.
> Or maybe somebody screwed up and ordered 1500 instead of 150 and they will
> be working off that stock for the next 100 years.
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik hAP ac status

[Ken Hohhof]

OK, Ohio 3, on order 400.  I don’t know why I couldn’t find it.

 

I liked their old website better.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Omni Flux via AF
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 7:08 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Omni Flux 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik hAP ac status

 

Streakwave still has a few in stock, I see it when I search for hAP, but if you 
search for RB962 it should be the only result.

 

-- 

Omni Flux

 

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 1:30 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

Is the hAP ac being discontinued or something?  Not the Lite or AC2 or AC3 or 
any other variants.  I realize it is overpriced, so it could be going away.  
Most home routers don’t need an SFP cage and even that doesn’t explain why it 
costs over $100.  But nevertheless we buy them.

 

The reason I ask is I can’t even find it on Streakwave’s web site, but Baltic 
claims to have almost 1500 of them on the shelf, which sounds like a ton unless 
they bought up the remaining stock at a discount or something.  Or maybe 
somebody screwed up and ordered 1500 instead of 150 and they will be working 
off that stock for the next 100 years.

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Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik hAP ac status

[Mathew Howard]

Yeah, it's hard to find stuff on their new website

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020, 7:46 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> OK, Ohio 3, on order 400.  I don’t know why I couldn’t find it.
>
>
>
> I liked their old website better.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Omni Flux via AF
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 18, 2020 7:08 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Cc:* Omni Flux 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik hAP ac status
>
>
>
> Streakwave still has a few in stock, I see it when I search for hAP, but
> if you search for RB962 it should be the only result.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Omni Flux
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 1:30 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Is the hAP ac being discontinued or something?  Not the Lite or AC2 or AC3
> or any other variants.  I realize it is overpriced, so it could be going
> away.  Most home routers don’t need an SFP cage and even that doesn’t
> explain why it costs over $100.  But nevertheless we buy them.
>
>
>
> The reason I ask is I can’t even find it on Streakwave’s web site, but
> Baltic claims to have almost 1500 of them on the shelf, which sounds like a
> ton unless they bought up the remaining stock at a discount or something.
> Or maybe somebody screwed up and ordered 1500 instead of 150 and they will
> be working off that stock for the next 100 years.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] 5.850-5.925Ghz immediately available for indoor use, outdoor use with approval

[Darin Steffl]

Hopefully wispa will share the steps to take to get this permanent STA.
This is very exciting!

Sidenote, are the wispa mailing lists still a thing? I used to get lots of
emails but I don't recall seeing any for awhile now. Our membership expired
for a few weeks and I renewed it but maybe that cleared my subscriptions.

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020, 6:38 PM Peter Kranz via AF  wrote:

> I’m guessing the STA process.
>
>
>
> Peter Kranz
> www.UnwiredLtd.com 
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Matt Hoppes 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 18, 2020 4:37 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Cc:* Peter Kranz 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 5.850-5.925Ghz immediately available for indoor
> use, outdoor use with approval
>
>
>
> What is this conditional basis?
>
>
>
> On Nov 18, 2020, at 7:35 PM, Peter Kranz via AF  wrote:
>
> 
>
> Looks like we may have 45Mhz of additional frequencies to use pretty soon.
>
>
>
> ““Full-power indoor unlicensed operations" are authorized immediately,
> while "outdoor unlicensed use" will be allowed "on a coordinated basis
> under certain circumstances," the FCC said.”
>
>
>
>
> https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/11/fcc-adds-45mhz-to-wi-fi-promising-supersize-networks-on-5ghz-band/
>
>
>
> Peter Kranz
> www.UnwiredLtd.com 
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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>
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[AFMUG] OT: Unistrut Pipe Clamp

[Jason McKemie]

Does anyone know if there is any sort of bracket available that will allow
me to run a pipe at an adjustable angle in relation to a piece of
unistrut?  They have clamps that will do 90 degrees or run parallel to the
unistrut, but nothing in between as far as I can tell.  I really need
something that will do an arbitrary angle.
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Unistrut Pipe Clamp

[Steve Jones]

You'd think this would exist. You could probably just twist the tits on a
standard clamp and go one size larger, but that probably would cause a
stress failure

On Thu, Nov 19, 2020, 12:18 AM Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> Does anyone know if there is any sort of bracket available that will allow
> me to run a pipe at an adjustable angle in relation to a piece of
> unistrut?  They have clamps that will do 90 degrees or run parallel to the
> unistrut, but nothing in between as far as I can tell.  I really need
> something that will do an arbitrary angle.
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] IRR

[John Osmon]

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 11:31:19AM -0500, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> Can someone explain to me a little more of what IRR is on ARIN IP
> blocks?  Traditionally our upstreams have registered the IRR for us,
> how do we register the IRR ourselves?

This will likely help:
   https://fcix.net/whitepaper/2018/07/14/intro-to-irr-rpsl.html



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