subject:"\[AFMUG\] COVID liability"

Yeah.  what’s wrong with those guys?

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 1:59 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

degenerates I tell ya

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 1:38 PM James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:
It was like were on skis.

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>] On 
Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 1:36 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Boy, that went downhill fast...

From: ch...@wbmfg.com<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 12:33 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

You gotta get them young, before they turn...

From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 12:28 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Oink Oink?  I thought we turned sheep into pigs around here.
On 5/11/2020 2:11 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
B B...

From: James Howard
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 11:57 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Chuck never said she……

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 10:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

it really is the right thing to do. she is going through a traumatic experience 
and being uncivil is downright rude

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:22 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> 
wrote:
Well, I at least try to be civil when performing sexual assaults...

From: Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:06 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

https://jsberrylaw.com/blog/the-difference-between-civil-sexual-assault-and-criminal-sexual-assault/

Think it can be both, but there are plenty of examples of certainly civil cases 
where there is lack of evidence.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:42 AM Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

That's a criminal offense.  I'm talking about civil cases.
On 5/11/2020 10:28 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
Rape.  It would accomplish a rapist being sentenced.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:27 AM Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

In what circumstance would you have a moral imperative to file an un-provable 
claim?  What does that even accomplish?

On 5/11/2020 10:23 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
But also eliminate the cases that should (morally) be filed and can't due to 
risk, ie lack of evidence.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:21 AM Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

This is an area where I think we would do well to consider how other countries 
do this.  My understanding is that civil cases in England put much more of the 
burden of proof on the plaintiff, and that the loser pays legal bills. So you 
don't sue a company unless you either (A) Know with very high certainty that 
you'll win, or (B) are willing to pay the company's lawyers when you lose.

This would seem to pretty much eliminate frivolous "ambulance chasing" and slap 
suits.

On 5/11/2020 10:15 AM, James Howard wrote:
And the ambulance chasing attorney that probably talked them into doing it……

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:11 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the company, and every 
other person he infected turned around and sued his greedy family into oblivion

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:
In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who died.  He 
was the union Chief Steward…….

Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to assume that 
he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else and he was the 
one that brought it to that plant and spread it?

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all that was who 
they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl the 
union did a pretty crappy job.

Mark

On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

Benjam

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

degenerates I tell ya

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 1:38 PM James Howard  wrote:

> It was like were on skis.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 1:36 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> Boy, that went downhill fast...
>
>
>
> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
>
> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 12:33 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> You gotta get them young, before they turn...
>
>
>
> *From:* Adam Moffett
>
> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 12:28 PM
>
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> Oink Oink?  I thought we turned sheep into pigs around here.
>
> On 5/11/2020 2:11 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> B B...
>
>
>
> *From:* James Howard
>
> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 11:57 AM
>
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> Chuck never said she……
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 10:34 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
> 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> it really is the right thing to do. she is going through a traumatic
> experience and being uncivil is downright rude
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:22 AM  wrote:
>
> Well, I at least try to be civil when performing sexual assaults...
>
>
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
>
> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 9:06 AM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
>
> https://jsberrylaw.com/blog/the-difference-between-civil-sexual-assault-and-criminal-sexual-assault/
>
>
>
> Think it can be both, but there are plenty of examples of certainly civil
> cases where there is lack of evidence.
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:42 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> That's a criminal offense.  I'm talking about civil cases.
>
> On 5/11/2020 10:28 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> Rape.  It would accomplish a rapist being sentenced.
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:27 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> In what circumstance would you have a moral imperative to file an
> un-provable claim?  What does that even accomplish?
>
>
>
> On 5/11/2020 10:23 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> But also eliminate the cases that should (morally) be filed and can't due
> to risk, ie lack of evidence.
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:21 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> This is an area where I think we would do well to consider how other
> countries do this.  My understanding is that civil cases in England put
> much more of the burden of proof on the plaintiff, and that the loser pays
> legal bills. So you don't sue a company unless you either (A) Know with
> very high certainty that you'll win, or (B) are willing to pay the
> company's lawyers when you lose.
>
> This would seem to pretty much eliminate frivolous "ambulance chasing" and
> slap suits.
>
>
>
> On 5/11/2020 10:15 AM, James Howard wrote:
>
> And the ambulance chasing attorney that probably talked them into doing
> it……
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 9:11 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
> 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the company, and
> every other person he infected turned around and sued his greedy family
> into oblivion
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard  wrote:
>
> In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who died.
> He was the union Chief Steward…….
>
>
>
> Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to assume
> that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else and he
> was the one that brought it to that plant and spread it?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:a

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

It was like were on skis.

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 1:36 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Boy, that went downhill fast...

From: ch...@wbmfg.com<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 12:33 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

You gotta get them young, before they turn...

From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 12:28 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Oink Oink?  I thought we turned sheep into pigs around here.
On 5/11/2020 2:11 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
B B...

From: James Howard
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 11:57 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Chuck never said she……

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 10:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

it really is the right thing to do. she is going through a traumatic experience 
and being uncivil is downright rude

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:22 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> 
wrote:
Well, I at least try to be civil when performing sexual assaults...

From: Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:06 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

https://jsberrylaw.com/blog/the-difference-between-civil-sexual-assault-and-criminal-sexual-assault/

Think it can be both, but there are plenty of examples of certainly civil cases 
where there is lack of evidence.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:42 AM Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

That's a criminal offense.  I'm talking about civil cases.
On 5/11/2020 10:28 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
Rape.  It would accomplish a rapist being sentenced.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:27 AM Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

In what circumstance would you have a moral imperative to file an un-provable 
claim?  What does that even accomplish?

On 5/11/2020 10:23 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
But also eliminate the cases that should (morally) be filed and can't due to 
risk, ie lack of evidence.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:21 AM Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

This is an area where I think we would do well to consider how other countries 
do this.  My understanding is that civil cases in England put much more of the 
burden of proof on the plaintiff, and that the loser pays legal bills. So you 
don't sue a company unless you either (A) Know with very high certainty that 
you'll win, or (B) are willing to pay the company's lawyers when you lose.

This would seem to pretty much eliminate frivolous "ambulance chasing" and slap 
suits.

On 5/11/2020 10:15 AM, James Howard wrote:
And the ambulance chasing attorney that probably talked them into doing it……

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:11 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the company, and every 
other person he infected turned around and sued his greedy family into oblivion

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:
In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who died.  He 
was the union Chief Steward…….

Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to assume that 
he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else and he was the 
one that brought it to that plant and spread it?

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all that was who 
they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl the 
union did a pretty crappy job.

Mark

On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the United Food and 
Commercial Workers Union.

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
M

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

And don’t forget to wear a mask…..

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 1:33 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

You gotta get them young, before they turn...

From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 12:28 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Oink Oink?  I thought we turned sheep into pigs around here.
On 5/11/2020 2:11 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
B B...

From: James Howard
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 11:57 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Chuck never said she……

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 10:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

it really is the right thing to do. she is going through a traumatic experience 
and being uncivil is downright rude

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:22 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> 
wrote:
Well, I at least try to be civil when performing sexual assaults...

From: Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:06 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

https://jsberrylaw.com/blog/the-difference-between-civil-sexual-assault-and-criminal-sexual-assault/

Think it can be both, but there are plenty of examples of certainly civil cases 
where there is lack of evidence.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:42 AM Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

That's a criminal offense.  I'm talking about civil cases.
On 5/11/2020 10:28 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
Rape.  It would accomplish a rapist being sentenced.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:27 AM Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

In what circumstance would you have a moral imperative to file an un-provable 
claim?  What does that even accomplish?

On 5/11/2020 10:23 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
But also eliminate the cases that should (morally) be filed and can't due to 
risk, ie lack of evidence.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:21 AM Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

This is an area where I think we would do well to consider how other countries 
do this.  My understanding is that civil cases in England put much more of the 
burden of proof on the plaintiff, and that the loser pays legal bills. So you 
don't sue a company unless you either (A) Know with very high certainty that 
you'll win, or (B) are willing to pay the company's lawyers when you lose.

This would seem to pretty much eliminate frivolous "ambulance chasing" and slap 
suits.

On 5/11/2020 10:15 AM, James Howard wrote:
And the ambulance chasing attorney that probably talked them into doing it……

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:11 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the company, and every 
other person he infected turned around and sued his greedy family into oblivion

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:
In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who died.  He 
was the union Chief Steward…….

Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to assume that 
he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else and he was the 
one that brought it to that plant and spread it?

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all that was who 
they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl the 
union did a pretty crappy job.

Mark

On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the United Food and 
Commercial Workers Union.

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

And so it begins.

https://www.foxbus

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Boy, that went downhill fast...

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 12:33 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

You gotta get them young, before they turn...

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 12:28 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Oink Oink?  I thought we turned sheep into pigs around here.

On 5/11/2020 2:11 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  B B...

  From: James Howard 
  Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 11:57 AM
  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

  Chuck never said she……

  From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
  Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 10:34 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

  it really is the right thing to do. she is going through a traumatic 
experience and being uncivil is downright rude

  On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:22 AM  wrote:

Well, I at least try to be civil when performing sexual assaults...

From: Josh Luthman 

Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:06 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

https://jsberrylaw.com/blog/the-difference-between-civil-sexual-assault-and-criminal-sexual-assault/

Think it can be both, but there are plenty of examples of certainly civil 
cases where there is lack of evidence.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:42 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

  That's a criminal offense.  I'm talking about civil cases.

  On 5/11/2020 10:28 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Rape.  It would accomplish a rapist being sentenced.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:27 AM Adam Moffett  
wrote:

  In what circumstance would you have a moral imperative to file an 
un-provable claim?  What does that even accomplish?

  On 5/11/2020 10:23 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

But also eliminate the cases that should (morally) be filed and 
can't due to risk, ie lack of evidence.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:21 AM Adam Moffett  
wrote:

  This is an area where I think we would do well to consider how 
other countries do this.  My understanding is that civil cases in England put 
much more of the burden of proof on the plaintiff, and that the loser pays 
legal bills. So you don't sue a company unless you either (A) Know with very 
high certainty that you'll win, or (B) are willing to pay the company's lawyers 
when you lose.

  This would seem to pretty much eliminate frivolous "ambulance 
chasing" and slap suits.

  On 5/11/2020 10:15 AM, James Howard wrote:

And the ambulance chasing attorney that probably talked them 
into doing it……

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve 
Jones
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:11 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the 
company, and every other person he infected turned around and sued his greedy 
family into oblivion

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard 
 wrote:

  In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the 
fellow who died.  He was the union Chief Steward……. 

  Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just 
seems to assume that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere 
else and he was the one that brought it to that plant and spread it? 

  From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark 
Radabaugh
  Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

  Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after 
all that was who they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   
Apparentl the union did a pretty crappy job.

  Mark

On May 10, 2020

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

You gotta get them young, before they turn...

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 12:28 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Oink Oink?  I thought we turned sheep into pigs around here.

On 5/11/2020 2:11 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  B B...

  From: James Howard 
  Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 11:57 AM
  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

  Chuck never said she……

  From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
  Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 10:34 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

  it really is the right thing to do. she is going through a traumatic 
experience and being uncivil is downright rude

  On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:22 AM  wrote:

Well, I at least try to be civil when performing sexual assaults...

From: Josh Luthman 

Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:06 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

https://jsberrylaw.com/blog/the-difference-between-civil-sexual-assault-and-criminal-sexual-assault/

Think it can be both, but there are plenty of examples of certainly civil 
cases where there is lack of evidence.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:42 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

  That's a criminal offense.  I'm talking about civil cases.

  On 5/11/2020 10:28 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Rape.  It would accomplish a rapist being sentenced.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:27 AM Adam Moffett  
wrote:

  In what circumstance would you have a moral imperative to file an 
un-provable claim?  What does that even accomplish?

  On 5/11/2020 10:23 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

But also eliminate the cases that should (morally) be filed and 
can't due to risk, ie lack of evidence.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:21 AM Adam Moffett  
wrote:

  This is an area where I think we would do well to consider how 
other countries do this.  My understanding is that civil cases in England put 
much more of the burden of proof on the plaintiff, and that the loser pays 
legal bills. So you don't sue a company unless you either (A) Know with very 
high certainty that you'll win, or (B) are willing to pay the company's lawyers 
when you lose.

  This would seem to pretty much eliminate frivolous "ambulance 
chasing" and slap suits.

  On 5/11/2020 10:15 AM, James Howard wrote:

And the ambulance chasing attorney that probably talked them 
into doing it……

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve 
Jones
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:11 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the 
company, and every other person he infected turned around and sued his greedy 
family into oblivion

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard 
 wrote:

  In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the 
fellow who died.  He was the union Chief Steward……. 

  Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just 
seems to assume that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere 
else and he was the one that brought it to that plant and spread it? 

  From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark 
Radabaugh
  Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

  Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after 
all that was who they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   
Apparentl the union did a pretty crappy job.

  Mark

On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard 
 wrote:

Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the 
United Food and Commerci

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

2020-05-11 Thread Ken Hohhof

“Thing” is not the appropriate gender neutral pronoun.

From: AF  On Behalf Of James Howard
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 1:22 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Just gotta be careful about assuming things…..

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com 
<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> 
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 1:12 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

B B...

From: James Howard 

Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 11:57 AM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Chuck never said she……

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 10:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

it really is the right thing to do. she is going through a traumatic experience 
and being uncivil is downright rude

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:22 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > 
wrote:

Well, I at least try to be civil when performing sexual assaults...

From: Josh Luthman 

Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:06 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

https://jsberrylaw.com/blog/the-difference-between-civil-sexual-assault-and-criminal-sexual-assault/

Think it can be both, but there are plenty of examples of certainly civil cases 
where there is lack of evidence.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:42 AM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

That's a criminal offense.  I'm talking about civil cases.

On 5/11/2020 10:28 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Rape.  It would accomplish a rapist being sentenced.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:27 AM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

In what circumstance would you have a moral imperative to file an un-provable 
claim?  What does that even accomplish?

On 5/11/2020 10:23 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

But also eliminate the cases that should (morally) be filed and can't due to 
risk, ie lack of evidence.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:21 AM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

This is an area where I think we would do well to consider how other countries 
do this.  My understanding is that civil cases in England put much more of the 
burden of proof on the plaintiff, and that the loser pays legal bills. So you 
don't sue a company unless you either (A) Know with very high certainty that 
you'll win, or (B) are willing to pay the company's lawyers when you lose.

This would seem to pretty much eliminate frivolous "ambulance chasing" and slap 
suits.

On 5/11/2020 10:15 AM, James Howard wrote:

And the ambulance chasing attorney that probably talked them into doing it……

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:11 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the company, and every 
other person he infected turned around and sued his greedy family into oblivion

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard mailto:ja...@litewire.net> > wrote:

In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who died.  He 
was the union Chief Steward……. 

Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to assume that 
he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else and he was the 
one that brought it to that plant and spread it? 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all that was who 
they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl the 
union did a pretty crappy job.

Mark

On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard mailto:ja...@litewire.net> > wrote:

Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the United Food and 
Commercial Workers Union.

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group m

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

2020-05-11 Thread Bill Prince


  
  
https://statelaws.findlaw.com/california-law/california-involuntary-manslaughter-laws.html


bp



On 5/11/2020 11:09 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  
  

  I would presume California has something similar to 2nd
and 3rd degree murder.  I think Sirhan Sirhan got 3rd degree
murder in California.  
  

   
  
From: Adam
Moffett 
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 10:51 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
  

 
  
  
This isn't a universal thing.  In Bill's state, murder
  requires "Malice aforethought"
 
On 5/11/2020 12:42 PM, Steve
  Jones wrote:


  no it doesnt
   
  
On Mon, May 11, 2020
  at 11:25 AM Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com>
  wrote:


  
It is not justice in my opinion. I suppose you
  could make a case for manslaughter, but not
  murder. Murder requires premeditation.
 
bp



On 5/11/2020 8:05 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:


  So one burglar is charged with murdering the
second burglar who was shot by the homeowner? 
Am I following that correctly?
  That doesn't seem logical.
   
  On 5/11/2020 10:53 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
  
  
Im going to go out on a limb and
  say these plants probably do not use E
  Verify.  We have a case going where two kids
  broke in to rob a house, homeowner shot and
  killed one of them, the one that didnt die is
  charged with murder because a death occurred
  during the commission of a crime. So say these
  plant are committing the crime of hiring
  undocumented, and a death occurred, then maybe
  the company leadership could be held
  criminally liable. would be interesting to see
 

  On Mon, May
11, 2020 at 9:39 AM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com>
wrote:
  
  

  
Some people have
suggested the spread at meat packing
plants (which are disinfected daily
in the normal course of business)
may actually be occurring outside
the plants, due to things like
communal housing.  This is a claim
rife with social, economic and
racial prejudice.  Yet I think it
has merit.  Which probably means I’m
prejudiced.
 
I would like to
think the companies are implementing
major changes in changing areas,
bathrooms, lunchrooms, entrances and
exits, etc, not just distancing on
the production lines.  But I would
also like to hear that the companies
or towns or states or somebody is
setting up places for infected
workers to isolate rather than just
go home and infect their families
and neighbors.  Or maybe setup some
kind of temporary housing to cut the
spread outside the plants.
 
 

  
From:
AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com>

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Just gotta be careful about assuming things…..

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 1:12 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

B B...

From: James Howard
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 11:57 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Chuck never said she……

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 10:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

it really is the right thing to do. she is going through a traumatic experience 
and being uncivil is downright rude

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:22 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> 
wrote:
Well, I at least try to be civil when performing sexual assaults...

From: Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:06 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

https://jsberrylaw.com/blog/the-difference-between-civil-sexual-assault-and-criminal-sexual-assault/

Think it can be both, but there are plenty of examples of certainly civil cases 
where there is lack of evidence.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:42 AM Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

That's a criminal offense.  I'm talking about civil cases.
On 5/11/2020 10:28 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
Rape.  It would accomplish a rapist being sentenced.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:27 AM Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

In what circumstance would you have a moral imperative to file an un-provable 
claim?  What does that even accomplish?

On 5/11/2020 10:23 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
But also eliminate the cases that should (morally) be filed and can't due to 
risk, ie lack of evidence.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:21 AM Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

This is an area where I think we would do well to consider how other countries 
do this.  My understanding is that civil cases in England put much more of the 
burden of proof on the plaintiff, and that the loser pays legal bills. So you 
don't sue a company unless you either (A) Know with very high certainty that 
you'll win, or (B) are willing to pay the company's lawyers when you lose.

This would seem to pretty much eliminate frivolous "ambulance chasing" and slap 
suits.

On 5/11/2020 10:15 AM, James Howard wrote:
And the ambulance chasing attorney that probably talked them into doing it……

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:11 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the company, and every 
other person he infected turned around and sued his greedy family into oblivion

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:
In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who died.  He 
was the union Chief Steward…….

Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to assume that 
he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else and he was the 
one that brought it to that plant and spread it?

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all that was who 
they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl the 
union did a pretty crappy job.

Mark

On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the United Food and 
Commercial Workers Union.

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

And so it begins.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit

On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
Only for ugly people.
Sent from my iPhone

On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

There are 2 separate issu

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

B B...

From: James Howard 
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 11:57 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Chuck never said she……

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 10:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

it really is the right thing to do. she is going through a traumatic experience 
and being uncivil is downright rude

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:22 AM  wrote:

  Well, I at least try to be civil when performing sexual assaults...

  From: Josh Luthman 

  Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:06 AM

  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

https://jsberrylaw.com/blog/the-difference-between-civil-sexual-assault-and-criminal-sexual-assault/

  Think it can be both, but there are plenty of examples of certainly civil 
cases where there is lack of evidence.

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:42 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

That's a criminal offense.  I'm talking about civil cases.

On 5/11/2020 10:28 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

  Rape.  It would accomplish a rapist being sentenced.

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:27 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

In what circumstance would you have a moral imperative to file an 
un-provable claim?  What does that even accomplish?

On 5/11/2020 10:23 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

  But also eliminate the cases that should (morally) be filed and can't 
due to risk, ie lack of evidence.

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:21 AM Adam Moffett  
wrote:

This is an area where I think we would do well to consider how 
other countries do this.  My understanding is that civil cases in England put 
much more of the burden of proof on the plaintiff, and that the loser pays 
legal bills. So you don't sue a company unless you either (A) Know with very 
high certainty that you'll win, or (B) are willing to pay the company's lawyers 
when you lose.

This would seem to pretty much eliminate frivolous "ambulance 
chasing" and slap suits.

On 5/11/2020 10:15 AM, James Howard wrote:

  And the ambulance chasing attorney that probably talked them into 
doing it……

  From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
  Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:11 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

  that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the 
company, and every other person he infected turned around and sued his greedy 
family into oblivion

  On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard  
wrote:

In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow 
who died.  He was the union Chief Steward……. 

Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems 
to assume that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else 
and he was the one that brought it to that plant and spread it? 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark 
Radabaugh
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all 
that was who they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   
Apparentl the union did a pretty crappy job.

Mark

  On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard 
 wrote:

  Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the 
United Food and Commercial Workers Union.

  From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken 
Hohhof
  Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

  A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?

  From: AF  On Behalf Of M

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

I would presume California has something similar to 2nd and 3rd degree murder.  
I think Sirhan Sirhan got 3rd degree murder in California.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 10:51 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

This isn't a universal thing.  In Bill's state, murder requires "Malice 
aforethought"

On 5/11/2020 12:42 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

  no it doesnt

  On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 11:25 AM Bill Prince  wrote:

It is not justice in my opinion. I suppose you could make a case for 
manslaughter, but not murder. Murder requires premeditation.

bp

On 5/11/2020 8:05 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

  So one burglar is charged with murdering the second burglar who was shot 
by the homeowner?  Am I following that correctly?

  That doesn't seem logical.

  On 5/11/2020 10:53 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

Im going to go out on a limb and say these plants probably do not use E 
Verify.  We have a case going where two kids broke in to rob a house, homeowner 
shot and killed one of them, the one that didnt die is charged with murder 
because a death occurred during the commission of a crime. So say these plant 
are committing the crime of hiring undocumented, and a death occurred, then 
maybe the company leadership could be held criminally liable. would be 
interesting to see

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:39 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  Some people have suggested the spread at meat packing plants (which 
are disinfected daily in the normal course of business) may actually be 
occurring outside the plants, due to things like communal housing.  This is a 
claim rife with social, economic and racial prejudice.  Yet I think it has 
merit.  Which probably means I’m prejudiced.

  I would like to think the companies are implementing major changes in 
changing areas, bathrooms, lunchrooms, entrances and exits, etc, not just 
distancing on the production lines.  But I would also like to hear that the 
companies or towns or states or somebody is setting up places for infected 
workers to isolate rather than just go home and infect their families and 
neighbors.  Or maybe setup some kind of temporary housing to cut the spread 
outside the plants.

  From: AF  On Behalf Of James Howard
  Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:08 AM
  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

  In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who 
died.  He was the union Chief Steward……. 

  Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to 
assume that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else and 
he was the one that brought it to that plant and spread it? 

  From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
  Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

  Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all that 
was who they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl 
the union did a pretty crappy job.

  Mark

On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard  
wrote:

Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the United 
Food and Commercial Workers Union.

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?

From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

And so it begins. 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit

  On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown  
wrote:

  Only for ugly people.

  Sent from my iPhone

On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard  
wrote:

There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell 
everyone they must wear a mask is one thing.  A business requiring customers 
wear a mask to enter their store is another.  The second actually correlates to 
your example and is certainly the right of any business to put certain 
requirements on using their facility (within lawful limits of course).  If 
people don’t want to abide by their requirements, they are free to go somewhere 
else or stay home if no one will let them in their place of business.

On the other hand, I assume that it will eventually come before 
the Supreme Court to decide if it is a violation of some “right” or other to be 
told tha

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Chuck never said she……

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 10:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

it really is the right thing to do. she is going through a traumatic experience 
and being uncivil is downright rude

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:22 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> 
wrote:
Well, I at least try to be civil when performing sexual assaults...

From: Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:06 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

https://jsberrylaw.com/blog/the-difference-between-civil-sexual-assault-and-criminal-sexual-assault/

Think it can be both, but there are plenty of examples of certainly civil cases 
where there is lack of evidence.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:42 AM Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

That's a criminal offense.  I'm talking about civil cases.
On 5/11/2020 10:28 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
Rape.  It would accomplish a rapist being sentenced.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:27 AM Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

In what circumstance would you have a moral imperative to file an un-provable 
claim?  What does that even accomplish?

On 5/11/2020 10:23 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
But also eliminate the cases that should (morally) be filed and can't due to 
risk, ie lack of evidence.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:21 AM Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

This is an area where I think we would do well to consider how other countries 
do this.  My understanding is that civil cases in England put much more of the 
burden of proof on the plaintiff, and that the loser pays legal bills. So you 
don't sue a company unless you either (A) Know with very high certainty that 
you'll win, or (B) are willing to pay the company's lawyers when you lose.

This would seem to pretty much eliminate frivolous "ambulance chasing" and slap 
suits.

On 5/11/2020 10:15 AM, James Howard wrote:
And the ambulance chasing attorney that probably talked them into doing it……

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:11 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the company, and every 
other person he infected turned around and sued his greedy family into oblivion

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:
In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who died.  He 
was the union Chief Steward…….

Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to assume that 
he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else and he was the 
one that brought it to that plant and spread it?

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all that was who 
they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl the 
union did a pretty crappy job.

Mark

On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the United Food and 
Commercial Workers Union.

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

And so it begins.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit

On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
Only for ugly people.
Sent from my iPhone

On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell everyone they must wear 
a mask is one thing.  A business requiring customers wear a mask to enter their 
store is another.  The second actually correlates to your example and is 
certainly the right of any business to put certain requirements on using their 
facility (within lawful limits of course).  If people don’t want to abide by 
their requirements, they are free to

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

This isn't a universal thing.  In Bill's state, murder requires "Malice 
aforethought"



On 5/11/2020 12:42 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

no it doesnt

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 11:25 AM Bill Prince <mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:


It is not justice in my opinion. I suppose you could make a case
for manslaughter, but not murder. Murder requires premeditation.


bp


On 5/11/2020 8:05 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:


So one burglar is charged with murdering the second burglar who
was shot by the homeowner?  Am I following that correctly?

That doesn't seem logical.


On 5/11/2020 10:53 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

Im going to go out on a limb and say these plants probably do
not use E Verify.  We have a case going where two kids broke in
to rob a house, homeowner shot and killed one of them, the one
that didnt die is charged with murder because a death occurred
during the commission of a crime. So say these plant are
committing the crime of hiring undocumented, and a death
occurred, then maybe the company leadership could be held
criminally liable. would be interesting to see

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:39 AM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

Some people have suggested the spread at meat packing plants
(which are disinfected daily in the normal course of
business) may actually be occurring outside the plants, due
to things like communal housing.  This is a claim rife with
social, economic and racial prejudice.  Yet I think it has
merit.  Which probably means I’m prejudiced.

I would like to think the companies are implementing major
changes in changing areas, bathrooms, lunchrooms, entrances
and exits, etc, not just distancing on the production
lines.  But I would also like to hear that the companies or
towns or states or somebody is setting up places for
infected workers to isolate rather than just go home and
infect their families and neighbors.  Or maybe setup some
kind of temporary housing to cut the spread outside the plants.

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *James Howard
*Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 9:08 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the
fellow who died.  He was the union Chief Steward…….

Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just
seems to assume that he contracted COVID at work.  What if
he got it somewhere else and he was the one that brought it
to that plant and spread it?

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of
*Mark Radabaugh
*Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after
all that was who they were paying dues to to protect them in
the workplace.   Apparentl the union did a pretty crappy job.

Mark

On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of
the United Food and Commercial Workers Union.

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of
*Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
*Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

And so it begins.


https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit

On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

Only for ugly people.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>>
wrote:



There are 2 separate issues. Having the
government tell everyone they must wear a mask
is one thing.  A business requiring customers
wear a mask to enter their store is another. 
The second actually correlates to your example
and is certainly the

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

no it doesnt

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 11:25 AM Bill Prince  wrote:

> It is not justice in my opinion. I suppose you could make a case for
> manslaughter, but not murder. Murder requires premeditation.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 5/11/2020 8:05 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>
> So one burglar is charged with murdering the second burglar who was shot
> by the homeowner?  Am I following that correctly?
>
> That doesn't seem logical.
>
>
> On 5/11/2020 10:53 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> Im going to go out on a limb and say these plants probably do not use E
> Verify.  We have a case going where two kids broke in to rob a house,
> homeowner shot and killed one of them, the one that didnt die is charged
> with murder because a death occurred during the commission of a crime. So
> say these plant are committing the crime of hiring undocumented, and a
> death occurred, then maybe the company leadership could be held criminally
> liable. would be interesting to see
>
> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:39 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Some people have suggested the spread at meat packing plants (which are
>> disinfected daily in the normal course of business) may actually be
>> occurring outside the plants, due to things like communal housing.  This is
>> a claim rife with social, economic and racial prejudice.  Yet I think it
>> has merit.  Which probably means I’m prejudiced.
>>
>>
>>
>> I would like to think the companies are implementing major changes in
>> changing areas, bathrooms, lunchrooms, entrances and exits, etc, not just
>> distancing on the production lines.  But I would also like to hear that the
>> companies or towns or states or somebody is setting up places for infected
>> workers to isolate rather than just go home and infect their families and
>> neighbors.  Or maybe setup some kind of temporary housing to cut the spread
>> outside the plants.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *James Howard
>> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 9:08 AM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>
>>
>>
>> In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who died.
>> He was the union Chief Steward…….
>>
>>
>>
>> Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to assume
>> that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else and he
>> was the one that brought it to that plant and spread it?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
>> Behalf Of *Mark Radabaugh
>> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>
>>
>>
>> Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all that was
>> who they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl
>> the union did a pretty crappy job.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the United Food
>> and Commercial Workers Union.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
>> Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>
>>
>>
>> A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>
>>
>>
>> And so it begins.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>> Only for ugly people.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell everyone they
>> must wear a mask is one thing.  A business requiring customers wear a mask
>> to enter their store is another.  The second actually correlates to your
>> example and is certainly the right of any business to put certain
>> requirements on using their facility (within law

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

2020-05-11 Thread Bill Prince


  
  
It is not justice in my opinion. I suppose you could make a case
  for manslaughter, but not murder. Murder requires premeditation.


bp



On 5/11/2020 8:05 AM, Adam Moffett
  wrote:


  
  So one burglar is charged with murdering the second burglar who
was shot by the homeowner?  Am I following that correctly?
  That doesn't seem logical.
  
  
  On 5/11/2020 10:53 AM, Steve Jones
wrote:
  
  

Im going to go out on a limb and say these plants
  probably do not use E Verify.  We have a case going where two
  kids broke in to rob a house, homeowner shot and killed one of
  them, the one that didnt die is charged with murder because a
  death occurred during the commission of a crime. So say these
  plant are committing the crime of hiring undocumented, and a
  death occurred, then maybe the company leadership could be
  held criminally liable. would be interesting to see


  On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:39
AM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
  
  

  
Some
people have suggested the spread at meat packing
plants (which are disinfected daily in the normal
course of business) may actually be occurring
outside the plants, due to things like communal
housing.  This is a claim rife with social, economic
and racial prejudice.  Yet I think it has merit. 
Which probably means I’m prejudiced.
 
I
would like to think the companies are implementing
major changes in changing areas, bathrooms,
lunchrooms, entrances and exits, etc, not just
distancing on the production lines.  But I would
also like to hear that the companies or towns or
states or somebody is setting up places for infected
workers to isolate rather than just go home and
infect their families and neighbors.  Or maybe setup
some kind of temporary housing to cut the spread
outside the plants.
 
 

  
From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com>
On Behalf Of James Howard
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:08 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
<af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
  

 
In
case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the
fellow who died.  He was the union Chief Steward…….
  
 
Another
point that occurred to me is that everybody just
seems to assume that he contracted COVID at work. 
What if he got it somewhere else and he was the one
that brought it to that plant and spread it? 
 
 
 

  
From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com]
On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
        Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
  

 
Seems like they employees should be
  suing the union, after all that was who they were
  paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.  
  Apparentl the union did a pretty crappy job.

   


  Mark
  
 

  
On May 10, 2020, at 11:17
  PM, James Howard <ja...@litewire.net>
  wrote:
  
   
  

  Benjamin
  was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter
  of the United Food and Commercial Workers
  Union.
   
   
   
  

  From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com]

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

its pretty simple. A death occurred as a result of the commission of the
crime. had the crime not been committed, the specific death would never
have occurred.  I like motivators not to do crime

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:34 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> The only way I could understand that is if one burglar coerced the other
> into the dangerous situation.  Otherwise I feel like they are each
> responsible for their own actions.   I don't understand how our courts
> could justify this policy.
>
>
> On 5/11/2020 11:15 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:
> > Yep. In a lot of states if your criminal accomplice is killed in the
> > commission of a crime the surviving criminal can be charged with murder.
> >
> > Adam Moffett wrote:
> >> So one burglar is charged with murdering the second burglar who was
> >> shot by the homeowner?  Am I following that correctly?
> >>
> >> That doesn't seem logical.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 5/11/2020 10:53 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
> >>> Im going to go out on a limb and say these plants probably do not
> >>> use E Verify.  We have a case going where two kids broke in to rob a
> >>> house, homeowner shot and killed one of them, the one that didnt die
> >>> is charged with murder because a death occurred during the
> >>> commission of a crime. So say these plant are committing the crime
> >>> of hiring undocumented, and a death occurred, then maybe the company
> >>> leadership could be held criminally liable. would be interesting to see
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:39 AM Ken Hohhof  >>> <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Some people have suggested the spread at meat packing plants
> >>> (which are disinfected daily in the normal course of business) may
> >>> actually be occurring outside the plants, due to things like
> >>> communal housing.  This is a claim rife with social, economic and
> >>> racial prejudice.  Yet I think it has merit.  Which probably means
> >>> I’m prejudiced.
> >>>
> >>> I would like to think the companies are implementing major changes
> >>> in changing areas, bathrooms, lunchrooms, entrances and exits,
> >>> etc, not just distancing on the production lines.  But I would
> >>> also like to hear that the companies or towns or states or
> >>> somebody is setting up places for infected workers to isolate
> >>> rather than just go home and infect their families and neighbors.
> >>> Or maybe setup some kind of temporary housing to cut the spread
> >>> outside the plants.
> >>>
> >>> *From:*AF  >>> <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *James Howard
> >>> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 9:08 AM
> >>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'  >>> <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
> >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
> >>>
> >>> In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who
> >>>     died.  He was the union Chief Steward…….
> >>>
> >>> Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to
> >>> assume that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it
> >>> somewhere else and he was the one that brought it to that plant
> >>> and spread it?
> >>>
> >>> *From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mark
> >>> Radabaugh
> >>> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
> >>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  >>> <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
> >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
> >>>
> >>> Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all
> >>> that was who they were paying dues to to protect them in the
> >>> workplace.   Apparentl the union did a pretty crappy job.
> >>>
> >>> Mark
> >>>
> >>> On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard  >>> <mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the
> >>> United Food and Commercial Workers Union.
> >>>
> >>> *From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken
> >>> Hohhof
> >>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

it really is the right thing to do. she is going through a traumatic
experience and being uncivil is downright rude

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:22 AM  wrote:

> Well, I at least try to be civil when performing sexual assaults...
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 9:06 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
> https://jsberrylaw.com/blog/the-difference-between-civil-sexual-assault-and-criminal-sexual-assault/
>
> Think it can be both, but there are plenty of examples of certainly civil
> cases where there is lack of evidence.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:42 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> That's a criminal offense.  I'm talking about civil cases.
>> On 5/11/2020 10:28 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>
>> Rape.  It would accomplish a rapist being sentenced.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:27 AM Adam Moffett 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In what circumstance would you have a moral imperative to file an
>>> un-provable claim?  What does that even accomplish?
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/11/2020 10:23 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>>
>>> But also eliminate the cases that should (morally) be filed and can't
>>> due to risk, ie lack of evidence.
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:21 AM Adam Moffett 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is an area where I think we would do well to consider how other
>>>> countries do this.  My understanding is that civil cases in England put
>>>> much more of the burden of proof on the plaintiff, and that the loser pays
>>>> legal bills. So you don't sue a company unless you either (A) Know with
>>>> very high certainty that you'll win, or (B) are willing to pay the
>>>> company's lawyers when you lose.
>>>>
>>>> This would seem to pretty much eliminate frivolous "ambulance chasing"
>>>> and slap suits.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 5/11/2020 10:15 AM, James Howard wrote:
>>>>
>>>> And the ambulance chasing attorney that probably talked them into doing
>>>> it……
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 9:11 AM
>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the company, and
>>>> every other person he infected turned around and sued his greedy family
>>>> into oblivion
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who
>>>> died.  He was the union Chief Steward…….
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to
>>>> assume that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else
>>>> and he was the one that brought it to that plant and spread it?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mark
>>>> Radabaugh
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all that was
>>>> who they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl
>>>> the union did a pretty crappy job.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mark
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Benjamin wa

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

The only way I could understand that is if one burglar coerced the other 
into the dangerous situation.  Otherwise I feel like they are each 
responsible for their own actions.   I don't understand how our courts 
could justify this policy.



On 5/11/2020 11:15 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:
Yep. In a lot of states if your criminal accomplice is killed in the 
commission of a crime the surviving criminal can be charged with murder.


Adam Moffett wrote:
So one burglar is charged with murdering the second burglar who was 
shot by the homeowner?  Am I following that correctly?


That doesn't seem logical.


On 5/11/2020 10:53 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
Im going to go out on a limb and say these plants probably do not 
use E Verify.  We have a case going where two kids broke in to rob a 
house, homeowner shot and killed one of them, the one that didnt die 
is charged with murder because a death occurred during the 
commission of a crime. So say these plant are committing the crime 
of hiring undocumented, and a death occurred, then maybe the company 
leadership could be held criminally liable. would be interesting to see


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:39 AM Ken Hohhof <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:


    Some people have suggested the spread at meat packing plants
    (which are disinfected daily in the normal course of business) may
    actually be occurring outside the plants, due to things like
    communal housing.  This is a claim rife with social, economic and
    racial prejudice.  Yet I think it has merit.  Which probably means
    I’m prejudiced.

    I would like to think the companies are implementing major changes
    in changing areas, bathrooms, lunchrooms, entrances and exits,
    etc, not just distancing on the production lines.  But I would
    also like to hear that the companies or towns or states or
    somebody is setting up places for infected workers to isolate
    rather than just go home and infect their families and neighbors.
    Or maybe setup some kind of temporary housing to cut the spread
    outside the plants.

    *From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *James Howard
    *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 9:08 AM
    *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

    In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who
    died.  He was the union Chief Steward…….

    Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to
    assume that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it
    somewhere else and he was the one that brought it to that plant
    and spread it?

    *From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mark
    Radabaugh
    *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
    *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

    Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all
    that was who they were paying dues to to protect them in the
    workplace.   Apparentl the union did a pretty crappy job.

    Mark

    On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

    Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the
    United Food and Commercial Workers Union.

    *From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken
    Hohhof
    *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
    *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

    A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?

    *From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
    *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
    *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

    And so it begins.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit 



    On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown
    mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

    Only for ugly people.

    Sent from my iPhone

    On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard
    mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

    

    There are 2 separate issues. Having the government
    tell everyone they must wear a mask is one thing.  A
    business requiring customers wear a mask to enter
    their store is another.  The second actually
    correlates to your example and is certainly the right
    of any business to put certain requirements on using
    their facility (within lawful limits of course).  If
    people don’t want to abide by their requirements, they
    are free to go somewhere else or stay home if no one
    will let them in their place of business.

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Well, I at least try to be civil when performing sexual assaults...

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:06 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

https://jsberrylaw.com/blog/the-difference-between-civil-sexual-assault-and-criminal-sexual-assault/

Think it can be both, but there are plenty of examples of certainly civil cases 
where there is lack of evidence.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:42 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

  That's a criminal offense.  I'm talking about civil cases.

  On 5/11/2020 10:28 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Rape.  It would accomplish a rapist being sentenced.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:27 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

  In what circumstance would you have a moral imperative to file an 
un-provable claim?  What does that even accomplish?

  On 5/11/2020 10:23 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

But also eliminate the cases that should (morally) be filed and can't 
due to risk, ie lack of evidence.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:21 AM Adam Moffett  
wrote:

  This is an area where I think we would do well to consider how other 
countries do this.  My understanding is that civil cases in England put much 
more of the burden of proof on the plaintiff, and that the loser pays legal 
bills. So you don't sue a company unless you either (A) Know with very high 
certainty that you'll win, or (B) are willing to pay the company's lawyers when 
you lose.

  This would seem to pretty much eliminate frivolous "ambulance 
chasing" and slap suits.

  On 5/11/2020 10:15 AM, James Howard wrote:

And the ambulance chasing attorney that probably talked them into 
doing it……

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:11 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the company, 
and every other person he infected turned around and sued his greedy family 
into oblivion

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard  
wrote:

  In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow 
who died.  He was the union Chief Steward……. 

  Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to 
assume that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else and 
he was the one that brought it to that plant and spread it? 

  From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark 
Radabaugh
  Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

  Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all 
that was who they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   
Apparentl the union did a pretty crappy job.

  Mark

On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard  
wrote:

Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the 
United Food and Commercial Workers Union.

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken 
Hohhof
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?

From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

And so it begins. 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit

  On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown  
wrote:

  Only for ugly people.

  Sent from my iPhone

On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard 
 wrote:

There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell 
everyone they must wear a mask is one thing.  A business requiring customers 
wear a mask to enter their store is another.  The second actually correlates to 
your example and is certainly the right of any business to put certain 
requirements on using their facility (within lawful limits of course).  If 
people don’t want to abide by their requirements, they are free to go somewhere 
else or

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

2020-05-11 Thread Jay Weekley

Yep.  In a lot of states if your criminal accomplice is killed in the 
commission of a crime the surviving criminal can be charged with murder.


Adam Moffett wrote:
So one burglar is charged with murdering the second burglar who was 
shot by the homeowner?  Am I following that correctly?


That doesn't seem logical.


On 5/11/2020 10:53 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
Im going to go out on a limb and say these plants probably do not use 
E Verify.  We have a case going where two kids broke in to rob a 
house, homeowner shot and killed one of them, the one that didnt die 
is charged with murder because a death occurred during the commission 
of a crime. So say these plant are committing the crime of hiring 
undocumented, and a death occurred, then maybe the company leadership 
could be held criminally liable. would be interesting to see


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:39 AM Ken Hohhof <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:


Some people have suggested the spread at meat packing plants
(which are disinfected daily in the normal course of business) may
actually be occurring outside the plants, due to things like
communal housing.  This is a claim rife with social, economic and
racial prejudice.  Yet I think it has merit.  Which probably means
I’m prejudiced.

I would like to think the companies are implementing major changes
in changing areas, bathrooms, lunchrooms, entrances and exits,
etc, not just distancing on the production lines.  But I would
also like to hear that the companies or towns or states or
somebody is setting up places for infected workers to isolate
rather than just go home and infect their families and neighbors.
Or maybe setup some kind of temporary housing to cut the spread
outside the plants.

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *James Howard
*Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 9:08 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who
died.  He was the union Chief Steward…….

Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to
assume that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it
somewhere else and he was the one that brought it to that plant
and spread it?

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mark
Radabaugh
*Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all
that was who they were paying dues to to protect them in the
workplace.   Apparentl the union did a pretty crappy job.

Mark

On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the
United Food and Commercial Workers Union.

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken
Hohhof
*Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
*Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

And so it begins.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit

On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

Only for ugly people.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:



There are 2 separate issues. Having the government
tell everyone they must wear a mask is one thing.  A
business requiring customers wear a mask to enter
their store is another.  The second actually
correlates to your example and is certainly the right
of any business to put certain requirements on using
their facility (within lawful limits of course).  If
people don’t want to abide by their requirements, they
are free to go somewhere else or stay home if no one
will let them in their place of business.

On the other hand, I assume that it will eventually
come before the Supreme Court to decide if it is a
violation of some “right” or other to be told that
everyone is required to wear a mask in public.

*From:*AF [mailto:af-b

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

yep
https://wgntv.com/news/homeowner-fatally-shoots-intruder-second-intruder-charged-with-murder/

the crime resulted in a death

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:05 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> So one burglar is charged with murdering the second burglar who was shot
> by the homeowner?  Am I following that correctly?
>
> That doesn't seem logical.
>
>
> On 5/11/2020 10:53 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> Im going to go out on a limb and say these plants probably do not use E
> Verify.  We have a case going where two kids broke in to rob a house,
> homeowner shot and killed one of them, the one that didnt die is charged
> with murder because a death occurred during the commission of a crime. So
> say these plant are committing the crime of hiring undocumented, and a
> death occurred, then maybe the company leadership could be held criminally
> liable. would be interesting to see
>
> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:39 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Some people have suggested the spread at meat packing plants (which are
>> disinfected daily in the normal course of business) may actually be
>> occurring outside the plants, due to things like communal housing.  This is
>> a claim rife with social, economic and racial prejudice.  Yet I think it
>> has merit.  Which probably means I’m prejudiced.
>>
>>
>>
>> I would like to think the companies are implementing major changes in
>> changing areas, bathrooms, lunchrooms, entrances and exits, etc, not just
>> distancing on the production lines.  But I would also like to hear that the
>> companies or towns or states or somebody is setting up places for infected
>> workers to isolate rather than just go home and infect their families and
>> neighbors.  Or maybe setup some kind of temporary housing to cut the spread
>> outside the plants.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *James Howard
>> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 9:08 AM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>
>>
>>
>> In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who died.
>> He was the union Chief Steward…….
>>
>>
>>
>> Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to assume
>> that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else and he
>> was the one that brought it to that plant and spread it?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
>> Behalf Of *Mark Radabaugh
>> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>
>>
>>
>> Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all that was
>> who they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl
>> the union did a pretty crappy job.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the United Food
>> and Commercial Workers Union.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
>> Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>
>>
>>
>> A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>
>>
>>
>> And so it begins.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>> Only for ugly people.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell everyone they
>> must wear a mask is one thing.  A business requiring customers wear a mask
>> to enter their store is another.  The second actually correlates to your
>> example and is certainly the right of any business to put certain
>> requirements on using their facility (within lawful limits of course).  If
>> people don’t want to abide by their requirements, they are free to

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

2020-05-11 Thread Josh Luthman

https://jsberrylaw.com/blog/the-difference-between-civil-sexual-assault-and-criminal-sexual-assault/

Think it can be both, but there are plenty of examples of certainly civil
cases where there is lack of evidence.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:42 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> That's a criminal offense.  I'm talking about civil cases.
> On 5/11/2020 10:28 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> Rape.  It would accomplish a rapist being sentenced.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:27 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> In what circumstance would you have a moral imperative to file an
>> un-provable claim?  What does that even accomplish?
>>
>>
>> On 5/11/2020 10:23 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>
>> But also eliminate the cases that should (morally) be filed and can't due
>> to risk, ie lack of evidence.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:21 AM Adam Moffett 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> This is an area where I think we would do well to consider how other
>>> countries do this.  My understanding is that civil cases in England put
>>> much more of the burden of proof on the plaintiff, and that the loser pays
>>> legal bills. So you don't sue a company unless you either (A) Know with
>>> very high certainty that you'll win, or (B) are willing to pay the
>>> company's lawyers when you lose.
>>>
>>> This would seem to pretty much eliminate frivolous "ambulance chasing"
>>> and slap suits.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/11/2020 10:15 AM, James Howard wrote:
>>>
>>> And the ambulance chasing attorney that probably talked them into doing
>>> it……
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
>>> Behalf Of *Steve Jones
>>> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 9:11 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the company, and
>>> every other person he infected turned around and sued his greedy family
>>> into oblivion
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard  wrote:
>>>
>>> In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who
>>> died.  He was the union Chief Steward…….
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to assume
>>> that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else and he
>>> was the one that brought it to that plant and spread it?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mark
>>> Radabaugh
>>> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all that was
>>> who they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl
>>> the union did a pretty crappy job.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the United Food
>>> and Commercial Workers Union.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
>>> Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
>>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And so it begins.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

So one burglar is charged with murdering the second burglar who was shot 
by the homeowner?  Am I following that correctly?


That doesn't seem logical.


On 5/11/2020 10:53 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
Im going to go out on a limb and say these plants probably do not use 
E Verify.  We have a case going where two kids broke in to rob a 
house, homeowner shot and killed one of them, the one that didnt die 
is charged with murder because a death occurred during the commission 
of a crime. So say these plant are committing the crime of hiring 
undocumented, and a death occurred, then maybe the company leadership 
could be held criminally liable. would be interesting to see


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:39 AM Ken Hohhof <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:


Some people have suggested the spread at meat packing plants
(which are disinfected daily in the normal course of business) may
actually be occurring outside the plants, due to things like
communal housing.  This is a claim rife with social, economic and
racial prejudice.  Yet I think it has merit.  Which probably means
I’m prejudiced.

I would like to think the companies are implementing major changes
in changing areas, bathrooms, lunchrooms, entrances and exits,
etc, not just distancing on the production lines.  But I would
also like to hear that the companies or towns or states or
somebody is setting up places for infected workers to isolate
rather than just go home and infect their families and neighbors. 
Or maybe setup some kind of temporary housing to cut the spread
outside the plants.

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *James Howard
*Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 9:08 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who
died.  He was the union Chief Steward…….

Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to
assume that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it
somewhere else and he was the one that brought it to that plant
and spread it?

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mark
Radabaugh
*Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all
that was who they were paying dues to to protect them in the
workplace.   Apparentl the union did a pretty crappy job.

Mark

On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the
United Food and Commercial Workers Union.

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken
Hohhof
*Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
*Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

And so it begins.


https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit

On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

Only for ugly people.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:



There are 2 separate issues. Having the government
tell everyone they must wear a mask is one thing.  A
business requiring customers wear a mask to enter
their store is another.  The second actually
correlates to your example and is certainly the right
of any business to put certain requirements on using
their facility (within lawful limits of course).  If
people don’t want to abide by their requirements, they
are free to go somewhere else or stay home if no one
will let them in their place of business.

On the other hand, I assume that it will eventually
come before the Supreme Court to decide if it is a
violation of some “right” or other to be told that
everyone is required to wear a mask in public.

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf
Of *Matt Hoppes
*Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microw

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

2020-05-11 Thread Bill Prince


  
  
Regardless of how the infection got into the plant, someone had
  to have brought it in in the first place. It would then be
  necessary to trace it backward to find out who, and how that
  person got it.
The close proximity of people increases the likelihood of
  spreading the infection. However, people of low means probably
  have less contact with people who travel extensively. The question
  in my mind is if a worker brings it in from outside, then where
  did they get it in the first place? IOW, just because you live in
  tight quarters, does not make you a risk so much as making more
  likely that one in your midst is going to give it to everyone you
  live with.


bp



On 5/11/2020 7:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


  
  
  
  
  
Some
people have suggested the spread at meat packing plants
(which are disinfected daily in the normal course of
business) may actually be occurring outside the plants, due
to things like communal housing.  This is a claim rife with
social, economic and racial prejudice.  Yet I think it has
merit.  Which probably means I’m prejudiced.
 
I
would like to think the companies are implementing major
changes in changing areas, bathrooms, lunchrooms, entrances
and exits, etc, not just distancing on the production
lines.  But I would also like to hear that the companies or
towns or states or somebody is setting up places for
infected workers to isolate rather than just go home and
infect their families and neighbors.  Or maybe setup some
kind of temporary housing to cut the spread outside the
plants.
 
 

  
From: AF
 On Behalf Of James
Howard
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:08 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
  

 
In
case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow
who died.  He was the union Chief Steward……. 
 
Another
point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to
assume that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it
somewhere else and he was the one that brought it to that
plant and spread it? 
 
 
 

  
From: AF
[mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com]
On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
  

 
Seems like they employees should be suing
  the union, after all that was who they were paying dues to to
  protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl the union did a
  pretty crappy job.

   


  Mark
  
 

  
On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James
  Howard <ja...@litewire.net>
  wrote:
  
   
  

  Benjamin
  was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the
  United Food and Commercial Workers Union.
   
   
   
  

  From: AF
  [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com]
  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
  Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
  <af@af.afmug.com>
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

  
   
  A
  70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?
   
  

  From: AF
  <af-boun...@af.afmug.com>
  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
  Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
  <af@af.afmug.com>
          Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

  
   
  
And so it begins.

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Im going to go out on a limb and say these plants probably do not use E
Verify.  We have a case going where two kids broke in to rob a house,
homeowner shot and killed one of them, the one that didnt die is charged
with murder because a death occurred during the commission of a crime. So
say these plant are committing the crime of hiring undocumented, and a
death occurred, then maybe the company leadership could be held criminally
liable. would be interesting to see

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:39 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Some people have suggested the spread at meat packing plants (which are
> disinfected daily in the normal course of business) may actually be
> occurring outside the plants, due to things like communal housing.  This is
> a claim rife with social, economic and racial prejudice.  Yet I think it
> has merit.  Which probably means I’m prejudiced.
>
>
>
> I would like to think the companies are implementing major changes in
> changing areas, bathrooms, lunchrooms, entrances and exits, etc, not just
> distancing on the production lines.  But I would also like to hear that the
> companies or towns or states or somebody is setting up places for infected
> workers to isolate rather than just go home and infect their families and
> neighbors.  Or maybe setup some kind of temporary housing to cut the spread
> outside the plants.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *James Howard
> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 9:08 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who died.
> He was the union Chief Steward…….
>
>
>
> Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to assume
> that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else and he
> was the one that brought it to that plant and spread it?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Mark Radabaugh
> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all that was
> who they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl
> the union did a pretty crappy job.
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard  wrote:
>
>
>
> Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the United Food and
> Commercial Workers Union.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> And so it begins.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> Only for ugly people.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard  wrote:
>
> 
>
> There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell everyone they must
> wear a mask is one thing.  A business requiring customers wear a mask to
> enter their store is another.  The second actually correlates to your
> example and is certainly the right of any business to put certain
> requirements on using their facility (within lawful limits of course).  If
> people don’t want to abide by their requirements, they are free to go
> somewhere else or stay home if no one will let them in their place of
> business.
>
>
>
> On the other hand, I assume that it will eventually come before the
> Supreme Court to decide if it is a violation of some “right” or other to be
> told that everyone is required to wear a mask in public.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Steve Jones <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in public" do
> you also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
>
> *Total Cont

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability


That's a criminal offense.  I'm talking about civil cases.

On 5/11/2020 10:28 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Rape.  It would accomplish a rapist being sentenced.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:27 AM Adam Moffett <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:


In what circumstance would you have a moral imperative to file an
un-provable claim?  What does that even accomplish?


On 5/11/2020 10:23 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

But also eliminate the cases that should (morally) be filed and
can't due to risk, ie lack of evidence.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:21 AM Adam Moffett
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

This is an area where I think we would do well to consider
how other countries do this.  My understanding is that civil
cases in England put much more of the burden of proof on the
plaintiff, and that the loser pays legal bills. So you don't
sue a company unless you either (A) Know with very high
certainty that you'll win, or (B) are willing to pay the
company's lawyers when you lose.

This would seem to pretty much eliminate frivolous "ambulance
chasing" and slap suits.


On 5/11/2020 10:15 AM, James Howard wrote:


And the ambulance chasing attorney that probably talked them
into doing it……

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of
*Steve Jones
*Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 9:11 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the
company, and every other person he infected turned around
and sued his greedy family into oblivion

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the
fellow who died.  He was the union Chief Steward…….

Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just
seems to assume that he contracted COVID at work.  What
if he got it somewhere else and he was the one that
brought it to that plant and spread it?

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Mark
Radabaugh
*Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Seems like they employees should be suing the union,
after all that was who they were paying dues to to
protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl the union did
a pretty crappy job.

Mark

On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter
of the United Food and Commercial Workers Union.

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On
Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of
*Matt Hoppes
*Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
        mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

And so it begins.


https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit

On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

Only for ugly people.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:



There are 2 separate issues. Having the
government tell everyone they must wear a
mask is one thing.  A business requiring
customers wear a mask to enter their store
is another.  The second actually correlates
to your example and is certainly the right
of any business to pu

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

2020-05-11 Thread Ken Hohhof

Some people have suggested the spread at meat packing plants (which are 
disinfected daily in the normal course of business) may actually be occurring 
outside the plants, due to things like communal housing.  This is a claim rife 
with social, economic and racial prejudice.  Yet I think it has merit.  Which 
probably means I’m prejudiced.

 

I would like to think the companies are implementing major changes in changing 
areas, bathrooms, lunchrooms, entrances and exits, etc, not just distancing on 
the production lines.  But I would also like to hear that the companies or 
towns or states or somebody is setting up places for infected workers to 
isolate rather than just go home and infect their families and neighbors.  Or 
maybe setup some kind of temporary housing to cut the spread outside the plants.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of James Howard
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:08 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 

In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who died.  He 
was the union Chief Steward……. 

 

Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to assume that 
he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else and he was the 
one that brought it to that plant and spread it? 

 

 

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 

Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all that was who 
they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl the 
union did a pretty crappy job.

 

Mark

 

On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard mailto:ja...@litewire.net> > wrote:

 

Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the United Food and 
Commercial Workers Union.

 

 

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 

A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 

And so it begins. 

 

 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit

 

 

 

On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

Only for ugly people.

Sent from my iPhone

 

On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard mailto:ja...@litewire.net> > wrote:

 

There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell everyone they must wear 
a mask is one thing.  A business requiring customers wear a mask to enter their 
store is another.  The second actually correlates to your example and is 
certainly the right of any business to put certain requirements on using their 
facility (within lawful limits of course).  If people don’t want to abide by 
their requirements, they are free to go somewhere else or stay home if no one 
will let them in their place of business.

 

On the other hand, I assume that it will eventually come before the Supreme 
Court to decide if it is a violation of some “right” or other to be told that 
everyone is required to wear a mask in public.

 

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
>; Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 

To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in public" do 
you also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



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From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> 




You received this message because the domain afmug.com <http://afmug.com>  is 
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From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> 




You received this message be

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

2020-05-11 Thread Josh Luthman

Rape.  It would accomplish a rapist being sentenced.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:27 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> In what circumstance would you have a moral imperative to file an
> un-provable claim?  What does that even accomplish?
>
>
> On 5/11/2020 10:23 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> But also eliminate the cases that should (morally) be filed and can't due
> to risk, ie lack of evidence.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:21 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> This is an area where I think we would do well to consider how other
>> countries do this.  My understanding is that civil cases in England put
>> much more of the burden of proof on the plaintiff, and that the loser pays
>> legal bills. So you don't sue a company unless you either (A) Know with
>> very high certainty that you'll win, or (B) are willing to pay the
>> company's lawyers when you lose.
>>
>> This would seem to pretty much eliminate frivolous "ambulance chasing"
>> and slap suits.
>>
>>
>> On 5/11/2020 10:15 AM, James Howard wrote:
>>
>> And the ambulance chasing attorney that probably talked them into doing
>> it……
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
>> Behalf Of *Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 9:11 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>
>>
>>
>> that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the company, and
>> every other person he infected turned around and sued his greedy family
>> into oblivion
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard  wrote:
>>
>> In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who died.
>> He was the union Chief Steward…….
>>
>>
>>
>> Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to assume
>> that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else and he
>> was the one that brought it to that plant and spread it?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mark Radabaugh
>> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>
>>
>>
>> Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all that was
>> who they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl
>> the union did a pretty crappy job.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the United Food
>> and Commercial Workers Union.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
>> Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>
>>
>>
>> A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>
>>
>>
>> And so it begins.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>> Only for ugly people.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell everyone they
>> must wear a mask is one thing.  A business requiring customers wear a mask
>> to enter their store is another.  The second actually correlates to your
>> example and is certainly the right of any business to put certain
>> requirements on using their facility (within lawful limits of course).  If
>> people don’t want to abide by their requirements, they are free to go
>> somewhere else or stay home if no one will let them in their place of
>> business.
>>
>>
>>
>> On the other hand, I ass

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

In what circumstance would you have a moral imperative to file an 
un-provable claim?  What does that even accomplish?



On 5/11/2020 10:23 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
But also eliminate the cases that should (morally) be filed and can't 
due to risk, ie lack of evidence.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:21 AM Adam Moffett <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:


This is an area where I think we would do well to consider how
other countries do this.  My understanding is that civil cases in
England put much more of the burden of proof on the plaintiff, and
that the loser pays legal bills. So you don't sue a company unless
you either (A) Know with very high certainty that you'll win, or
(B) are willing to pay the company's lawyers when you lose.

This would seem to pretty much eliminate frivolous "ambulance
chasing" and slap suits.


On 5/11/2020 10:15 AM, James Howard wrote:


And the ambulance chasing attorney that probably talked them into
doing it……

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 9:11 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the
company, and every other person he infected turned around and
sued his greedy family into oblivion

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the
fellow who died.  He was the union Chief Steward…….

Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just
seems to assume that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he
got it somewhere else and he was the one that brought it to
that plant and spread it?

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Mark Radabaugh
*Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after
all that was who they were paying dues to to protect them in
the workplace.   Apparentl the union did a pretty crappy job.

Mark

On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of
the United Food and Commercial Workers Union.

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of
*Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
*Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

And so it begins.


https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit

On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

Only for ugly people.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>>
wrote:



There are 2 separate issues. Having the
government tell everyone they must wear a mask is
one thing.  A business requiring customers wear a
mask to enter their store is another.  The second
actually correlates to your example and is
certainly the right of any business to put
certain requirements on using their facility
(within lawful limits of course). If people don’t
want to abide by their requirements, they are
free to go somewhere else or stay home if no one
will let them in their place of business.

On the other hand, I assume that it will
eventually come before the Supreme Court to
decide if it is a violation of some “right” or
other to be told that everyone is required to
wear a mask in public.

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On
Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

2020-05-11 Thread Josh Luthman

But also eliminate the cases that should (morally) be filed and can't due
to risk, ie lack of evidence.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:21 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> This is an area where I think we would do well to consider how other
> countries do this.  My understanding is that civil cases in England put
> much more of the burden of proof on the plaintiff, and that the loser pays
> legal bills. So you don't sue a company unless you either (A) Know with
> very high certainty that you'll win, or (B) are willing to pay the
> company's lawyers when you lose.
>
> This would seem to pretty much eliminate frivolous "ambulance chasing" and
> slap suits.
>
>
> On 5/11/2020 10:15 AM, James Howard wrote:
>
> And the ambulance chasing attorney that probably talked them into doing
> it……
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 9:11 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the company, and
> every other person he infected turned around and sued his greedy family
> into oblivion
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard  wrote:
>
> In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who died.
> He was the union Chief Steward…….
>
>
>
> Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to assume
> that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else and he
> was the one that brought it to that plant and spread it?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mark Radabaugh
> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all that was
> who they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl
> the union did a pretty crappy job.
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard  wrote:
>
>
>
> Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the United Food and
> Commercial Workers Union.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> And so it begins.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> Only for ugly people.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard  wrote:
>
> 
>
> There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell everyone they must
> wear a mask is one thing.  A business requiring customers wear a mask to
> enter their store is another.  The second actually correlates to your
> example and is certainly the right of any business to put certain
> requirements on using their facility (within lawful limits of course).  If
> people don’t want to abide by their requirements, they are free to go
> somewhere else or stay home if no one will let them in their place of
> business.
>
>
>
> On the other hand, I assume that it will eventually come before the
> Supreme Court to decide if it is a violation of some “right” or other to be
> told that everyone is required to wear a mask in public.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Steve Jones <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in public" do
> you also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
>
> *Total Control Panel*
>
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>
> To: ja...@litewire.net
> <https://asp.reflexion.net/address-properties?aID=24226099

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

This is an area where I think we would do well to consider how other 
countries do this.  My understanding is that civil cases in England put 
much more of the burden of proof on the plaintiff, and that the loser 
pays legal bills. So you don't sue a company unless you either (A) Know 
with very high certainty that you'll win, or (B) are willing to pay the 
company's lawyers when you lose.


This would seem to pretty much eliminate frivolous "ambulance chasing" 
and slap suits.



On 5/11/2020 10:15 AM, James Howard wrote:


And the ambulance chasing attorney that probably talked them into 
doing it……


*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 9:11 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the company, and 
every other person he infected turned around and sued his greedy 
family into oblivion


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard <mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:


In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who
died.  He was the union Chief Steward…….

Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to
assume that he contracted COVID at work. What if he got it
somewhere else and he was the one that brought it to that plant
and spread it?

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Mark Radabaugh
*Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all
that was who they were paying dues to to protect them in the
workplace.   Apparentl the union did a pretty crappy job.

Mark

On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the
United Food and Commercial Workers Union.

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken
Hohhof
*Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
*Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

And so it begins.


https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit

On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

Only for ugly people.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:



There are 2 separate issues. Having the government
tell everyone they must wear a mask is one thing.  A
business requiring customers wear a mask to enter
their store is another.  The second actually
correlates to your example and is certainly the right
of any business to put certain requirements on using
their facility (within lawful limits of course).  If
people don’t want to abide by their requirements, they
are free to go somewhere else or stay home if no one
will let them in their place of business.

On the other hand, I assume that it will eventually
come before the Supreme Court to decide if it is a
violation of some “right” or other to be told that
everyone is required to wear a mask in public.

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf
Of *Matt Hoppes
*Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>; Steve
Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when
in public" do
you also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?

-- 
AF mailing list

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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




*Total Control Panel*



Login

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

And the ambulance chasing attorney that probably talked them into doing it……

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:11 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the company, and every 
other person he infected turned around and sued his greedy family into oblivion

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:
In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who died.  He 
was the union Chief Steward…….

Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to assume that 
he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else and he was the 
one that brought it to that plant and spread it?

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>] On 
Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all that was who 
they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl the 
union did a pretty crappy job.

Mark

On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the United Food and 
Commercial Workers Union.

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

And so it begins.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit

On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
Only for ugly people.
Sent from my iPhone

On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell everyone they must wear 
a mask is one thing.  A business requiring customers wear a mask to enter their 
store is another.  The second actually correlates to your example and is 
certainly the right of any business to put certain requirements on using their 
facility (within lawful limits of course).  If people don’t want to abide by 
their requirements, they are free to go somewhere else or stay home if no one 
will let them in their place of business.

On the other hand, I assume that it will eventually come before the Supreme 
Court to decide if it is a violation of some “right” or other to be told that 
everyone is required to wear a mask in public.

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>; 
Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in public" do
you also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?

--
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You received this m

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the company, and
every other person he infected turned around and sued his greedy family
into oblivion


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard  wrote:

> In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who died.
> He was the union Chief Steward…….
>
>
>
> Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to assume
> that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else and he
> was the one that brought it to that plant and spread it?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mark Radabaugh
> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all that was
> who they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl
> the union did a pretty crappy job.
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard  wrote:
>
>
>
> Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the United Food and
> Commercial Workers Union.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> And so it begins.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> Only for ugly people.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard  wrote:
>
> 
>
> There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell everyone they must
> wear a mask is one thing.  A business requiring customers wear a mask to
> enter their store is another.  The second actually correlates to your
> example and is certainly the right of any business to put certain
> requirements on using their facility (within lawful limits of course).  If
> people don’t want to abide by their requirements, they are free to go
> somewhere else or stay home if no one will let them in their place of
> business.
>
>
>
> On the other hand, I assume that it will eventually come before the
> Supreme Court to decide if it is a violation of some “right” or other to be
> told that everyone is required to wear a mask in public.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Steve Jones <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in public" do
> you also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
>
> *Total Control Panel*
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>
> *You received this message because the domain afmug.com <http://afmug.com>
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> *You received this message because the domain afmug.com <http://afmug.com>
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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who died.  He 
was the union Chief Steward…….

Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to assume that 
he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else and he was the 
one that brought it to that plant and spread it?



From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all that was who 
they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl the 
union did a pretty crappy job.

Mark


On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the United Food and 
Commercial Workers Union.



From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

And so it begins.


https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit



On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
Only for ugly people.
Sent from my iPhone

On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell everyone they must wear 
a mask is one thing.  A business requiring customers wear a mask to enter their 
store is another.  The second actually correlates to your example and is 
certainly the right of any business to put certain requirements on using their 
facility (within lawful limits of course).  If people don’t want to abide by 
their requirements, they are free to go somewhere else or stay home if no one 
will let them in their place of business.

On the other hand, I assume that it will eventually come before the Supreme 
Court to decide if it is a violation of some “right” or other to be told that 
everyone is required to wear a mask in public.


From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>; 
Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in public" do
you also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?

--
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AF@af.afmug.com<mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

2020-05-11 Thread Mark Radabaugh

Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all that was who 
they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl the 
union did a pretty crappy job.

Mark

> On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard  wrote:
> 
> Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the United Food and 
> Commercial Workers Union.
>  
>  
>   <>
> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>  
> A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?
>  
> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf 
> Of Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>  
> And so it begins. 
>  
>  
> https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit
>  
> <https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit>
>  
>  
>  
> 
> On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown  <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
> 
> Only for ugly people.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
>  
> 
> On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard  <mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:
> 
> 
> There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell everyone they must 
> wear a mask is one thing.  A business requiring customers wear a mask to 
> enter their store is another.  The second actually correlates to your example 
> and is certainly the right of any business to put certain requirements on 
> using their facility (within lawful limits of course).  If people don’t want 
> to abide by their requirements, they are free to go somewhere else or stay 
> home if no one will let them in their place of business.
>  
> On the other hand, I assume that it will eventually come before the Supreme 
> Court to decide if it is a violation of some “right” or other to be told that 
> everyone is required to wear a mask in public.
>  
>  
> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>] On 
> Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>; Steve Jones  <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>  
> To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in public" do 
> you also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
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> 
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> <https://asp.reflexion.net/address-properties?aID=242260993=litewire.net>
> From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>
> You received this message because the domain afmug.com is on your allow list.
>  
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> You received this message because the domain afmug.com is on your allow list.
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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

2020-05-11 Thread justsumname .

That lawsuit is the kind of stuff that makes me say things  like:   "we are
too stupid to have a country".
I am dreading the court order which will come from that.
No one is responsible for themselves; everyone is responsible for everyone
else.

Many years ago I decided that the most politically correct way to live and
stay safe was to stay the hell away from 'everyone', especially the govt.
Fortunately, I have largely been able to do it that way.   But that kind of
issue has the potential to suck us all into the same black hole.



On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 10:50 PM Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> And so it begins.
>
>
>
> https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit
>
>
>
> On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> Only for ugly people.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard  wrote:
>
> 
>
> There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell everyone they must
> wear a mask is one thing.  A business requiring customers wear a mask to
> enter their store is another.  The second actually correlates to your
> example and is certainly the right of any business to put certain
> requirements on using their facility (within lawful limits of course).  If
> people don’t want to abide by their requirements, they are free to go
> somewhere else or stay home if no one will let them in their place of
> business.
>
>
>
> On the other hand, I assume that it will eventually come before the
> Supreme Court to decide if it is a violation of some “right” or other to be
> told that everyone is required to wear a mask in public.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Steve Jones <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in public" do
> you also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
>
> *Total Control Panel*
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>
> From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com
>
> *You received this message because the domain afmug.com <http://afmug.com>
> is on your allow list.*
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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

2020-05-10 Thread Robert

I was just watching a youtube about the "atomic man" who was doing 
nuclear fuel extractions at 64 for $16k/year.  Yeah our system rocks!


On 5/10/20 8:04 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?

*From:*AF  *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
*Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

And so it begins.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit



On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

Only for ugly people.

Sent from my iPhone



On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:



There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell
everyone they must wear a mask is one thing.  A business
requiring customers wear a mask to enter their store is
another.  The second actually correlates to your example and
is certainly the right of any business to put certain
requirements on using their facility (within lawful limits of
course).  If people don’t want to abide by their requirements,
they are free to go somewhere else or stay home if no one will
let them in their place of business.

On the other hand, I assume that it will eventually come
before the Supreme Court to decide if it is a violation of
some “right” or other to be told that everyone is required to
wear a mask in public.

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Matt
Hoppes
*Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>; Steve Jones
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in
public" do
you also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?

-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
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/You received this message because the domain afmug.com is on
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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

2020-05-10 Thread Robert

The muslems must be loving this.  After all the uproar over keeping the 
womens faces covered...


On 5/10/20 7:43 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Only for ugly people.

Sent from my iPhone


On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard  wrote:



There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell everyone they 
must wear a mask is one thing.  A business requiring customers wear a 
mask to enter their store is another.  The second actually correlates 
to your example and is certainly the right of any business to put 
certain requirements on using their facility (within lawful limits of 
course).  If people don’t want to abide by their requirements, they 
are free to go somewhere else or stay home if no one will let them in 
their place of business.


On the other hand, I assume that it will eventually come before the 
Supreme Court to decide if it is a violation of some “right” or other 
to be told that everyone is required to wear a mask in public.


*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
*Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Steve Jones 


*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in public" do
you also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?

--
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/You received this message because the domain afmug.com is on your 
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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

I guess we’ll go to live markets like in China, where you take it home and kill 
it yourself.  Or maybe “plant meat”.  Oh, wait, a greenhouse in upstate New 
York is a hotspot.

https://nypost.com/2020/05/06/new-york-greenhouse-emerges-as-coronavirus-hotspot/

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of James Howard
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:18 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 

Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the United Food and 
Commercial Workers Union.

 

 

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 

A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 

And so it begins. 

 

 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit

 

 

 

On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

Only for ugly people.

Sent from my iPhone

 

On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard mailto:ja...@litewire.net> > wrote:

 

There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell everyone they must wear 
a mask is one thing.  A business requiring customers wear a mask to enter their 
store is another.  The second actually correlates to your example and is 
certainly the right of any business to put certain requirements on using their 
facility (within lawful limits of course).  If people don’t want to abide by 
their requirements, they are free to go somewhere else or stay home if no one 
will let them in their place of business.

 

On the other hand, I assume that it will eventually come before the Supreme 
Court to decide if it is a violation of some “right” or other to be told that 
everyone is required to wear a mask in public.

 

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
>; Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 

To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in public" do 
you also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?

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You received this message because the domain afmug.com is on your allow list.

 

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You received this message because the domain afmug.com is on your allow list.

 

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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

2020-05-10 Thread James Howard

Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the United Food and 
Commercial Workers Union.

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

And so it begins.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit

On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
Only for ugly people.
Sent from my iPhone

On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell everyone they must wear 
a mask is one thing.  A business requiring customers wear a mask to enter their 
store is another.  The second actually correlates to your example and is 
certainly the right of any business to put certain requirements on using their 
facility (within lawful limits of course).  If people don’t want to abide by 
their requirements, they are free to go somewhere else or stay home if no one 
will let them in their place of business.

On the other hand, I assume that it will eventually come before the Supreme 
Court to decide if it is a violation of some “right” or other to be told that 
everyone is required to wear a mask in public.

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>; 
Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in public" do
you also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?

--
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You received this message because the domain afmug.com is on your allow list.

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You received this message because the domain afmug.com is on your allow list.

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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?

From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

And so it begins. 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit

On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

Only for ugly people.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard mailto:ja...@litewire.net> > wrote:

There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell everyone they must wear 
a mask is one thing.  A business requiring customers wear a mask to enter their 
store is another.  The second actually correlates to your example and is 
certainly the right of any business to put certain requirements on using their 
facility (within lawful limits of course).  If people don’t want to abide by 
their requirements, they are free to go somewhere else or stay home if no one 
will let them in their place of business.

On the other hand, I assume that it will eventually come before the Supreme 
Court to decide if it is a violation of some “right” or other to be told that 
everyone is required to wear a mask in public.

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
>; Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in public" do 
you also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?

-- 
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You received this message because the domain afmug.com is on your allow list.

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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

2020-05-10 Thread Matt Hoppes

And so it begins. 


https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit



> On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> 
> Only for ugly people.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard  wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>> There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell everyone they must 
>> wear a mask is one thing.  A business requiring customers wear a mask to 
>> enter their store is another.  The second actually correlates to your 
>> example and is certainly the right of any business to put certain 
>> requirements on using their facility (within lawful limits of course).  If 
>> people don’t want to abide by their requirements, they are free to go 
>> somewhere else or stay home if no one will let them in their place of 
>> business.
>>  
>> On the other hand, I assume that it will eventually come before the Supreme 
>> Court to decide if it is a violation of some “right” or other to be told 
>> that everyone is required to wear a mask in public.
>>  
>>  
>> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
>> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Steve Jones 
>> 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>  
>> To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in public" do 
>> you also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?
>> 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
>> Total Control Panel
>> Login
>> To: ja...@litewire.net
>> From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com
>> You received this message because the domain afmug.com is on your allow list.
>>  
>> -- 
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

2020-05-10 Thread Chuck McCown

Only for ugly people.

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard  wrote:
> 
> 
> There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell everyone they must 
> wear a mask is one thing.  A business requiring customers wear a mask to 
> enter their store is another.  The second actually correlates to your example 
> and is certainly the right of any business to put certain requirements on 
> using their facility (within lawful limits of course).  If people don’t want 
> to abide by their requirements, they are free to go somewhere else or stay 
> home if no one will let them in their place of business.
>  
> On the other hand, I assume that it will eventually come before the Supreme 
> Court to decide if it is a violation of some “right” or other to be told that 
> everyone is required to wear a mask in public.
>  
>  
> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Steve Jones 
> 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>  
> To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in public" do 
> you also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
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> To: ja...@litewire.net
> From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com
> You received this message because the domain afmug.com is on your allow list.
>  
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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

2020-05-10 Thread James Howard

There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell everyone they must wear 
a mask is one thing.  A business requiring customers wear a mask to enter their 
store is another.  The second actually correlates to your example and is 
certainly the right of any business to put certain requirements on using their 
facility (within lawful limits of course).  If people don't want to abide by 
their requirements, they are free to go somewhere else or stay home if no one 
will let them in their place of business.

On the other hand, I assume that it will eventually come before the Supreme 
Court to decide if it is a violation of some "right" or other to be told that 
everyone is required to wear a mask in public.


From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Steve Jones 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in public" do
you also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?

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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

2020-05-10 Thread Steve Jones

I love liver, liver and onions, liverwurst, chicken livers, I'd try foie
gras, both to try the taste and the comfort it gives me knowing an animal
rights creeps head is exploding

On Sun, May 10, 2020, 4:33 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> I hate liver but have been known to eat liver sausage.  Oscar Meyer.  On
> Ritz crackers.  With or without a slice of cheddar cheese.
>
> Also excellent for getting dogs to take pills.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 4:19 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
> I tried it in Monte Carlo.  Tasted like Underwood Deviled Ham mixed with
> margarine.  No liver taste at all.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On May 10, 2020, at 2:37 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
> >
> > I would boycott any restaurant that served foie gras simply because I
> hate liver, and duck/goose live is just as disgusting.
> >
> > bp
> > 
> >
> >> On 5/10/2020 12:26 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> >> I heard on the radio a restaurant owner in downstate Illinois opened
> >> to a full sit-down crowd, citing his rights as an American.  He
> >> apparently forgot that restaurants are already subject to lots of
> >> rules, and the county health department can pull his health permit.
> >> Heck, they regulate how big your sign can be, what hours you can be
> >> open, maximum occupancy, whether you can serve liquor (or sprouts or
> >> foie gras), whether you can hand out plastic straws.  The idea that a
> >> business is free to do whatever it wants, free of government
> regulation, is kind of divorced from reality.
> >>
> >> I don't necessarily agree with the way any level of government is
> >> handling this, but not because of my rights and freedoms.
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
> >> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
> >> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Steve Jones
> >> 
> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
> >>
> >> To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in public"
> >> do you also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?
> >>
> >> --
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> >> AF@af.afmug.com
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> >>
> >>
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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

2020-05-10 Thread Erich Kaiser

Looking it up online probably had goose liver and pork liver spread as well.


Erich Kaiser
North Central Tower
er...@northcentraltower.com
Office: 815-570-3101





On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 5:32 PM Erich Kaiser 
wrote:

> I am a big fan of calves liver spread.  Used to get some strange looks
> from the other kids in grade school during lunch.   I have not had it for
> years well because the wife will not buy it LOL.
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 4:33 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> I hate liver but have been known to eat liver sausage.  Oscar Meyer.  On
>> Ritz crackers.  With or without a slice of cheddar cheese.
>>
>> Also excellent for getting dogs to take pills.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
>> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 4:19 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>
>> I tried it in Monte Carlo.  Tasted like Underwood Deviled Ham mixed with
>> margarine.  No liver taste at all.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On May 10, 2020, at 2:37 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>> >
>> > I would boycott any restaurant that served foie gras simply because I
>> hate liver, and duck/goose live is just as disgusting.
>> >
>> > bp
>> > 
>> >
>> >> On 5/10/2020 12:26 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>> >> I heard on the radio a restaurant owner in downstate Illinois opened
>> >> to a full sit-down crowd, citing his rights as an American.  He
>> >> apparently forgot that restaurants are already subject to lots of
>> >> rules, and the county health department can pull his health permit.
>> >> Heck, they regulate how big your sign can be, what hours you can be
>> >> open, maximum occupancy, whether you can serve liquor (or sprouts or
>> >> foie gras), whether you can hand out plastic straws.  The idea that a
>> >> business is free to do whatever it wants, free of government
>> regulation, is kind of divorced from reality.
>> >>
>> >> I don't necessarily agree with the way any level of government is
>> >> handling this, but not because of my rights and freedoms.
>> >>
>> >> -Original Message-
>> >> From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
>> >> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
>> >> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Steve Jones
>> >> 
>> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>> >>
>> >> To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in public"
>> >> do you also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> AF mailing list
>> >> AF@af.afmug.com
>> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

2020-05-10 Thread Erich Kaiser

I am a big fan of calves liver spread.  Used to get some strange looks from
the other kids in grade school during lunch.   I have not had it for years
well because the wife will not buy it LOL.




On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 4:33 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> I hate liver but have been known to eat liver sausage.  Oscar Meyer.  On
> Ritz crackers.  With or without a slice of cheddar cheese.
>
> Also excellent for getting dogs to take pills.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 4:19 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
> I tried it in Monte Carlo.  Tasted like Underwood Deviled Ham mixed with
> margarine.  No liver taste at all.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On May 10, 2020, at 2:37 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
> >
> > I would boycott any restaurant that served foie gras simply because I
> hate liver, and duck/goose live is just as disgusting.
> >
> > bp
> > 
> >
> >> On 5/10/2020 12:26 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> >> I heard on the radio a restaurant owner in downstate Illinois opened
> >> to a full sit-down crowd, citing his rights as an American.  He
> >> apparently forgot that restaurants are already subject to lots of
> >> rules, and the county health department can pull his health permit.
> >> Heck, they regulate how big your sign can be, what hours you can be
> >> open, maximum occupancy, whether you can serve liquor (or sprouts or
> >> foie gras), whether you can hand out plastic straws.  The idea that a
> >> business is free to do whatever it wants, free of government
> regulation, is kind of divorced from reality.
> >>
> >> I don't necessarily agree with the way any level of government is
> >> handling this, but not because of my rights and freedoms.
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
> >> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
> >> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Steve Jones
> >> 
> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
> >>
> >> To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in public"
> >> do you also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?
> >>
> >> --
> >> AF mailing list
> >> AF@af.afmug.com
> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

2020-05-10 Thread Bill Prince

The mask thing cuts two ways. You may not care (or think you don't care) 
whether you get it or not, but the main thing is whether you might give 
it to someone else. At least 20% of the people who get it (and spread 
it) show no symptoms whatever. We know a local woman who has been 
pinpointed as the one who gave it to 12 other people.



bp


On 5/10/2020 11:52 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in public" 
do you also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?




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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

I hate liver but have been known to eat liver sausage.  Oscar Meyer.  On Ritz 
crackers.  With or without a slice of cheddar cheese.

Also excellent for getting dogs to take pills.

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 4:19 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

I tried it in Monte Carlo.  Tasted like Underwood Deviled Ham mixed with 
margarine.  No liver taste at all.

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 10, 2020, at 2:37 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
> 
> I would boycott any restaurant that served foie gras simply because I hate 
> liver, and duck/goose live is just as disgusting.
> 
> bp
> 
> 
>> On 5/10/2020 12:26 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>> I heard on the radio a restaurant owner in downstate Illinois opened 
>> to a full sit-down crowd, citing his rights as an American.  He 
>> apparently forgot that restaurants are already subject to lots of 
>> rules, and the county health department can pull his health permit.  
>> Heck, they regulate how big your sign can be, what hours you can be 
>> open, maximum occupancy, whether you can serve liquor (or sprouts or 
>> foie gras), whether you can hand out plastic straws.  The idea that a 
>> business is free to do whatever it wants, free of government regulation, is 
>> kind of divorced from reality.
>> 
>> I don't necessarily agree with the way any level of government is 
>> handling this, but not because of my rights and freedoms.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
>> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Steve Jones 
>> 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>> 
>> To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in public" 
>> do you also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?
>> 
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

2020-05-10 Thread Chuck McCown

I tried it in Monte Carlo.  Tasted like Underwood Deviled Ham mixed with 
margarine.  No liver taste at all.

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 10, 2020, at 2:37 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
> 
> I would boycott any restaurant that served foie gras simply because I hate 
> liver, and duck/goose live is just as disgusting.
> 
> bp
> 
> 
>> On 5/10/2020 12:26 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>> I heard on the radio a restaurant owner in downstate Illinois opened to a
>> full sit-down crowd, citing his rights as an American.  He apparently forgot
>> that restaurants are already subject to lots of rules, and the county health
>> department can pull his health permit.  Heck, they regulate how big your
>> sign can be, what hours you can be open, maximum occupancy, whether you can
>> serve liquor (or sprouts or foie gras), whether you can hand out plastic
>> straws.  The idea that a business is free to do whatever it wants, free of
>> government regulation, is kind of divorced from reality.
>> 
>> I don't necessarily agree with the way any level of government is handling
>> this, but not because of my rights and freedoms.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
>> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Steve Jones
>> 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>> 
>> To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in public" do you
>> also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?
>> 
>> --
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>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

2020-05-10 Thread Bill Prince

I would boycott any restaurant that served foie gras simply because I 
hate liver, and duck/goose live is just as disgusting.


bp


On 5/10/2020 12:26 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I heard on the radio a restaurant owner in downstate Illinois opened to a
full sit-down crowd, citing his rights as an American.  He apparently forgot
that restaurants are already subject to lots of rules, and the county health
department can pull his health permit.  Heck, they regulate how big your
sign can be, what hours you can be open, maximum occupancy, whether you can
serve liquor (or sprouts or foie gras), whether you can hand out plastic
straws.  The idea that a business is free to do whatever it wants, free of
government regulation, is kind of divorced from reality.

I don't necessarily agree with the way any level of government is handling
this, but not because of my rights and freedoms.

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Steve Jones

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in public" do you
also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?

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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

The health dept called him and asked him to voluntarily stop seating customers. 
 I Googled for it and found this article, I think this was the guy.  It says he 
closed ... when he ran out of food.

I am not aware of any actual enforcement actions in Illinois other than Chicago 
police breaking up some parties, even then, they told people to disperse, I 
don't think they arrested people.  Compliance actually seems voluntary, you 
hear Andrew Cuomo say the same thing, if 19 million people decide not to wear 
masks, what is he going to do, arrest them all?

https://www.wcia.com/news/restaurant-owner-says-hell-sue-health-department-over-dine-in-refusal/

Read the article for yourself.  Sounds like he was looking for the attention, 
otherwise he could have just opened for business without all the publicity and 
threats of lawsuits.  People don't like being told what to do.

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 2:40 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Did they shut him down?

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 10, 2020, at 1:27 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> I heard on the radio a restaurant owner in downstate Illinois opened 
> to a full sit-down crowd, citing his rights as an American.  He 
> apparently forgot that restaurants are already subject to lots of 
> rules, and the county health department can pull his health permit.  
> Heck, they regulate how big your sign can be, what hours you can be 
> open, maximum occupancy, whether you can serve liquor (or sprouts or 
> foie gras), whether you can hand out plastic straws.  The idea that a 
> business is free to do whatever it wants, free of government regulation, is 
> kind of divorced from reality.
> 
> I don't necessarily agree with the way any level of government is 
> handling this, but not because of my rights and freedoms.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Steve Jones 
> 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
> 
> To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in public" 
> do you also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

2020-05-10 Thread Chuck McCown

Did they shut him down?

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 10, 2020, at 1:27 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> I heard on the radio a restaurant owner in downstate Illinois opened to a
> full sit-down crowd, citing his rights as an American.  He apparently forgot
> that restaurants are already subject to lots of rules, and the county health
> department can pull his health permit.  Heck, they regulate how big your
> sign can be, what hours you can be open, maximum occupancy, whether you can
> serve liquor (or sprouts or foie gras), whether you can hand out plastic
> straws.  The idea that a business is free to do whatever it wants, free of
> government regulation, is kind of divorced from reality.
> 
> I don't necessarily agree with the way any level of government is handling
> this, but not because of my rights and freedoms.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Steve Jones
> 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
> 
> To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in public" do you
> also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

I heard on the radio a restaurant owner in downstate Illinois opened to a
full sit-down crowd, citing his rights as an American.  He apparently forgot
that restaurants are already subject to lots of rules, and the county health
department can pull his health permit.  Heck, they regulate how big your
sign can be, what hours you can be open, maximum occupancy, whether you can
serve liquor (or sprouts or foie gras), whether you can hand out plastic
straws.  The idea that a business is free to do whatever it wants, free of
government regulation, is kind of divorced from reality.

I don't necessarily agree with the way any level of government is handling
this, but not because of my rights and freedoms.

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Steve Jones

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in public" do you
also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?

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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

2020-05-10 Thread Matt Hoppes

To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in public" do 
you also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?


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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

2020-05-10 Thread Matt Hoppes


Just gettting back to this thread now.

I would absolutely rush out and get it right now IF:

A) I knew for a fact that the antibodies would keep me immune to it 
going forward

B) I knew for a fact there were no long term issues (think Polio)

I'm  not convinced of either of those things, yet... and am waiting on 
folks more smart than myself.


On 5/9/20 10:50 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
That's why right now is the best time to get it. Matt and the talking 
heads keep saying that we all will eventually get this, and they 
wouldn't lie. So right now when the hospitals are empty and 60 percent 
of healthcare staff is laid off is the ideal time to get it. Get it in 
the fall when it resources (again, matt and the talking heads have 
guaranteed this) are taxed due to flu season, and survivability drops.
 From day one I've said infection centers would be the absolute best 
tool to fight this thing. The younger, healthier, medically screened 
people go and get infected, and start treatment immediately. Its 
effectively the same thing as vaccination with a few more steps.
Morons say "well we dont know that getting it will make you immune" 
which is fine and good, maybe it's not like 99 percent of other viruses. 
But guess what that means. It means that there will never be a vaccine 
since that's what vaccines to (make your body think you've had the 
disease). Matt and the talking heads cannot have it both ways, science 
doesnt allow it.


I'm in the same boat though, I want to maximize the time with my kids. I 
have this new fresh one that's still just a lump of dough, I'd like to 
get to know what he cooks into. But I wont do this teaching these little 
bastards to cower in the corner because the government says to, 
especially when the governments demands dont match the so called science 
they're basing it on. And the little dough ball isnt developing an 
immune system, he will be that pale gray sickly kid with a doctors note 
for PE soon if I dont get him exposed to some community germs. I'm about 
to go drag him across a truck stop floor


On Sat, May 9, 2020, 9:35 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> 
wrote:


I have not had nearly enough time with my grandkids yet.
So, trying to optimize the chance of more time with grandkids.
*From:* Lewis Bergman
*Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 8:18 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
Maybe. At this point, I couldn't care less. Get it, don't get it. I
don't care anymore.
On Sat, May 9, 2020, 9:07 AM  wrote:

I modified all the doors I could so you don’t have to use a hand
to open them.
Put an auto flush valve on the urinal.
We asked all the guys to try to do the 6 foot thing.
Logging temps with an IR thermometer each morning and posting
them on a white board is surprisingly reassuring in a way.
None of this is expensive or onerous or an overreaction and will
work for all kinds of communicable diseases.
I don’t want them to bring it back to me.  Everyone at my place
is much younger than my wife and myself.  Silly for those in a
particular age demographic to not be as careful as they can.  I
also wear my seat belt, don’t smoke and try to keep my blood
sugar and blood pressure low. To me this is just more of the same.
*From:* Lewis Bergman
*Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:54 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
We changed nothing. No distancing, no work from home, no masks,
no gloves. The only thing we are sick of is all the talk of
covid. Workers comp covers this kind of thing and your ERA is
based on the total experience of like industries which
presumably would experience similar sickness rates.
Don't let the fear of liability stop you from doing anything
productive.
On Fri, May 8, 2020, 5:41 PM  wrote:

I never shut down.  I build critical infrastructure.
We distanced, made sure everyone was in their own vehicle.
Gave them all gloves and masks.  Make sure everyone’s
temperature is taken and logged each morning.
If someone gets sick, who gave it to them and who gave it to
that person.  If you want to attempt to assign liability it
would as difficult as doing slavery reparations in a fair
manner.
The can sue China.
*From:* Robert
*Sent:* Friday, May 8, 2020 4:20 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
Act of God?   How would you deal with someone getting the
flu or passing it on?

On 5/8/20 3:05 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Any lawyer will tell you that waiver only goes so far.


On May 8, 2020, at 6:00

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Lol, yeah, 6monrh, then 6 months, then 6 months. Get real. Its over

On Sat, May 9, 2020, 11:47 AM Robert Andrews  wrote:

> And probably way less knowledge of how to treat sick people than we will
> know in 6 months.  It's a teeter-totter...
>
> On 05/09/2020 09:32 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
> > That's why right now is the best time to get it. We have the highest
> > availability of healthcare resources in my entire lifetime.
> >
> > On Sat, May 9, 2020, 10:07 AM Mike Hammett  > <mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
> >
> > Most of us will need to get it (or vaccines) to stop it's reach from
> > getting to everyone.
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><
> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><
> https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><
> https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><
> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><
> https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
> >
> >
> > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> >
>  --------
> > *From: *"Steve Jones"  > <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>
> > *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  > <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
> > *Sent: *Saturday, May 9, 2020 9:50:29 AM
> > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
> >
> > That's why right now is the best time to get it. Matt and the
> > talking heads keep saying that we all will eventually get this, and
> > they wouldn't lie. So right now when the hospitals are empty and 60
> > percent of healthcare staff is laid off is the ideal time to get it.
> > Get it in the fall when it resources (again, matt and the talking
> > heads have guaranteed this) are taxed due to flu season, and
> > survivability drops.
> >  From day one I've said infection centers would be the absolute best
> > tool to fight this thing. The younger, healthier, medically screened
> > people go and get infected, and start treatment immediately. Its
> > effectively the same thing as vaccination with a few more steps.
> > Morons say "well we dont know that getting it will make you immune"
> > which is fine and good, maybe it's not like 99 percent of other
> > viruses. But guess what that means. It means that there will never
> > be a vaccine since that's what vaccines to (make your body think
> > you've had the disease). Matt and the talking heads cannot have it
> > both ways, science doesnt allow it.
> >
> > I'm in the same boat though, I want to maximize the time with my
> > kids. I have this new fresh one that's still just a lump of dough,
> > I'd like to get to know what he cooks into. But I wont do this
> > teaching these little bastards to cower in the corner because the
> > government says to, especially when the governments demands dont
> > match the so called science they're basing it on. And the little
> > dough ball isnt developing an immune system, he will be that pale
> > gray sickly kid with a doctors note for PE soon if I dont get him
> >     exposed to some community germs. I'm about to go drag him across a
> > truck stop floor
> >
> > On Sat, May 9, 2020, 9:35 AM  > <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
> >
> > I have not had nearly enough time with my grandkids yet.
> > So, trying to optimize the chance of more time with grandkids.
> > *From:* Lewis Bergman
> > *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 8:18 AM
> > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
> > Maybe. At this point, I couldn't care less. Get it, don't get
> > it. I don't care anymore.
> > On Sat, May 9, 2020, 9:07 AM  wrote:
> >
> > I modified all the doors I could so you don’t have to use a
> > hand to open them.
> > Put an auto flush valve on the urinal.
> > We asked all the guys to try to do the 6 foot thing.
> > Lo

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

In illinois its aggravated battery right now to sneeze on someone willfully

On Sat, May 9, 2020, 11:46 AM Robert Andrews  wrote:

> I know some people feel I am rather polarized on this.   But after
> seeing statements about people are going to be militant about not
> wearing masks ( local neighborhood postings specially ) I wonder, with
> the local government requirements to wear a mask in public, if someone
> sneezes near me or someone else within 10 feet, could that be considered
> assault?   Would there be legal recourse?
>
> On 05/09/2020 09:31 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
> > That kind of thing makes sense to do, especially if you have people that
> > are at high risk. I don't want people within 6 feet of me when they
> > don't need to be anyway, so I'm good with that, and working from home
> > when I can means I can sleep until my phone starts ringing...
> >
> > But a lot of the stuff I see people doing is just way overboard. We can
> > probably do 95% of what we do with out any real risk of exposing anyone
> > to anything.
> >
> > On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 9:07 AM  > <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
> >
> > I modified all the doors I could so you don’t have to use a hand to
> > open them.
> > Put an auto flush valve on the urinal.
> > We asked all the guys to try to do the 6 foot thing.
> > Logging temps with an IR thermometer each morning and posting them
> > on a white board is surprisingly reassuring in a way.
> > None of this is expensive or onerous or an overreaction and will
> > work for all kinds of communicable diseases.
> > I don’t want them to bring it back to me.  Everyone at my place is
> > much younger than my wife and myself.  Silly for those in a
> > particular age demographic to not be as careful as they can.  I also
> > wear my seat belt, don’t smoke and try to keep my blood sugar and
> > blood pressure low.  To me this is just more of the same.
> > *From:* Lewis Bergman
> > *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:54 AM
> > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
> > We changed nothing. No distancing, no work from home, no masks, no
> > gloves. The only thing we are sick of is all the talk of covid.
> > Workers comp covers this kind of thing and your ERA is based on the
> > total experience of like industries which presumably would
> > experience similar sickness rates.
> > Don't let the fear of liability stop you from doing anything
> > productive.
> > On Fri, May 8, 2020, 5:41 PM  wrote:
> >
> > I never shut down.  I build critical infrastructure.
> > We distanced, made sure everyone was in their own vehicle.
> > Gave them all gloves and masks.  Make sure everyone’s
> > temperature is taken and logged each morning.
> > If someone gets sick, who gave it to them and who gave it to
> > that person.  If you want to attempt to assign liability it
> > would as difficult as doing slavery reparations in a fair manner.
> > The can sue China.
> > *From:* Robert
> > *Sent:* Friday, May 8, 2020 4:20 PM
> > *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
> > Act of God?   How would you deal with someone getting the flu or
> > passing it on?
> >
> > On 5/8/20 3:05 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> >> Any lawyer will tell you that waiver only goes so far.
> >>
> >>> On May 8, 2020, at 6:00 PM, Steve Jones
> >>> mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>
> >>> 
> >>> Rotflmao. Waiver of liability. Literally that simple
> >>> On Fri, May 8, 2020, 4:55 PM Matt Hoppes
> >>>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> As we look to reopen our operations, the one thing that
> >>> remains is liability.
> >>>
> >>> How are you all addressing the liability if either your
> >>> tech gets someone sick (and they die), or someone gets
> >>> your tech sick (and now you have a potential OSHA issue
> >>> on your hands.
> >>> --
> >>> AF mailing list
> >>> AF@af.afmug.com
> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> AF maili

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

2020-05-09 Thread Robert Andrews

And probably way less knowledge of how to treat sick people than we will
know in 6 months. It's a teeter-totter...

On 05/09/2020 09:32 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
That's why right now is the best time to get it. We have the highest
availability of healthcare resources in my entire lifetime.

On Sat, May 9, 2020, 10:07 AM Mike Hammett <mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:

Most of us will need to get it (or vaccines) to stop it's reach from
getting to everyone.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>

<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

*From: *"Steve Jones" mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Sent: *Saturday, May 9, 2020 9:50:29 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

That's why right now is the best time to get it. Matt and the
talking heads keep saying that we all will eventually get this, and
they wouldn't lie. So right now when the hospitals are empty and 60
percent of healthcare staff is laid off is the ideal time to get it.
Get it in the fall when it resources (again, matt and the talking
heads have guaranteed this) are taxed due to flu season, and
survivability drops.
From day one I've said infection centers would be the absolute best
tool to fight this thing. The younger, healthier, medically screened
people go and get infected, and start treatment immediately. Its
effectively the same thing as vaccination with a few more steps.
Morons say "well we dont know that getting it will make you immune"
which is fine and good, maybe it's not like 99 percent of other
viruses. But guess what that means. It means that there will never
be a vaccine since that's what vaccines to (make your body think
you've had the disease). Matt and the talking heads cannot have it
both ways, science doesnt allow it.

I'm in the same boat though, I want to maximize the time with my
kids. I have this new fresh one that's still just a lump of dough,
I'd like to get to know what he cooks into. But I wont do this
teaching these little bastards to cower in the corner because the
government says to, especially when the governments demands dont
match the so called science they're basing it on. And the little
dough ball isnt developing an immune system, he will be that pale
gray sickly kid with a doctors note for PE soon if I dont get him
exposed to some community germs. I'm about to go drag him across a
truck stop floor

On Sat, May 9, 2020, 9:35 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

I have not had nearly enough time with my grandkids yet.
So, trying to optimize the chance of more time with grandkids.
*From:* Lewis Bergman
*Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 8:18 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
Maybe. At this point, I couldn't care less. Get it, don't get
it. I don't care anymore.
On Sat, May 9, 2020, 9:07 AM wrote:

I modified all the doors I could so you don’t have to use a
hand to open them.
Put an auto flush valve on the urinal.
We asked all the guys to try to do the 6 foot thing.
Logging temps with an IR thermometer each morning and
posting them on a white board is surprisingly reassuring in
a way.
None of this is expensive or onerous or an overreaction and
will work for all kinds of communicable diseases.
I don’t want them to bring it back to me. Everyone at my
place is much younger than my wife and myself. Silly for
those in a particular age demographic to not be as careful
as they can. I also wear my seat belt, don’t smoke and try
to keep my blood sugar and blood pressure low. To me this is
just more of the same.
*From:* Lewis Bergman
*Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:54 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
We changed nothing. No distancing, no work from home, no

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

2020-05-09 Thread Robert Andrews

I know some people feel I am rather polarized on this.   But after 
seeing statements about people are going to be militant about not 
wearing masks ( local neighborhood postings specially ) I wonder, with 
the local government requirements to wear a mask in public, if someone 
sneezes near me or someone else within 10 feet, could that be considered 
assault?   Would there be legal recourse?


On 05/09/2020 09:31 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
That kind of thing makes sense to do, especially if you have people that 
are at high risk. I don't want people within 6 feet of me when they 
don't need to be anyway, so I'm good with that, and working from home 
when I can means I can sleep until my phone starts ringing...


But a lot of the stuff I see people doing is just way overboard. We can 
probably do 95% of what we do with out any real risk of exposing anyone 
to anything.


On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 9:07 AM <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:


I modified all the doors I could so you don’t have to use a hand to
open them.
Put an auto flush valve on the urinal.
We asked all the guys to try to do the 6 foot thing.
Logging temps with an IR thermometer each morning and posting them
on a white board is surprisingly reassuring in a way.
None of this is expensive or onerous or an overreaction and will
work for all kinds of communicable diseases.
I don’t want them to bring it back to me.  Everyone at my place is
much younger than my wife and myself.  Silly for those in a
particular age demographic to not be as careful as they can.  I also
wear my seat belt, don’t smoke and try to keep my blood sugar and
blood pressure low.  To me this is just more of the same.
*From:* Lewis Bergman
*Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:54 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
We changed nothing. No distancing, no work from home, no masks, no
gloves. The only thing we are sick of is all the talk of covid.
Workers comp covers this kind of thing and your ERA is based on the
total experience of like industries which presumably would
experience similar sickness rates.
Don't let the fear of liability stop you from doing anything
productive.
On Fri, May 8, 2020, 5:41 PM  wrote:

I never shut down.  I build critical infrastructure.
We distanced, made sure everyone was in their own vehicle.
Gave them all gloves and masks.  Make sure everyone’s
temperature is taken and logged each morning.
If someone gets sick, who gave it to them and who gave it to
that person.  If you want to attempt to assign liability it
would as difficult as doing slavery reparations in a fair manner.
The can sue China.
*From:* Robert
*Sent:* Friday, May 8, 2020 4:20 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
Act of God?   How would you deal with someone getting the flu or
passing it on?

On 5/8/20 3:05 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Any lawyer will tell you that waiver only goes so far.


On May 8, 2020, at 6:00 PM, Steve Jones
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote:


Rotflmao. Waiver of liability. Literally that simple
On Fri, May 8, 2020, 4:55 PM Matt Hoppes
 wrote:

As we look to reopen our operations, the one thing that
remains is liability.

How are you all addressing the liability if either your
tech gets someone sick (and they die), or someone gets
your tech sick (and now you have a potential OSHA issue
on your hands.
-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

That's why right now is the best time to get it. We have the highest
availability of healthcare resources in my entire lifetime.

On Sat, May 9, 2020, 10:07 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> Most of us will need to get it (or vaccines) to stop it's reach from
> getting to everyone.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ------
> *From: *"Steve Jones" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Saturday, May 9, 2020 9:50:29 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
> That's why right now is the best time to get it. Matt and the talking
> heads keep saying that we all will eventually get this, and they wouldn't
> lie. So right now when the hospitals are empty and 60 percent of healthcare
> staff is laid off is the ideal time to get it. Get it in the fall when it
> resources (again, matt and the talking heads have guaranteed this) are
> taxed due to flu season, and survivability drops.
> From day one I've said infection centers would be the absolute best tool
> to fight this thing. The younger, healthier, medically screened people go
> and get infected, and start treatment immediately. Its effectively the same
> thing as vaccination with a few more steps.
> Morons say "well we dont know that getting it will make you immune" which
> is fine and good, maybe it's not like 99 percent of other viruses. But
> guess what that means. It means that there will never be a vaccine since
> that's what vaccines to (make your body think you've had the disease). Matt
> and the talking heads cannot have it both ways, science doesnt allow it.
>
> I'm in the same boat though, I want to maximize the time with my kids. I
> have this new fresh one that's still just a lump of dough, I'd like to get
> to know what he cooks into. But I wont do this teaching these little
> bastards to cower in the corner because the government says to, especially
> when the governments demands dont match the so called science they're
> basing it on. And the little dough ball isnt developing an immune system,
> he will be that pale gray sickly kid with a doctors note for PE soon if I
> dont get him exposed to some community germs. I'm about to go drag him
> across a truck stop floor
>
> On Sat, May 9, 2020, 9:35 AM  wrote:
>
>> I have not had nearly enough time with my grandkids yet.
>> So, trying to optimize the chance of more time with grandkids.
>>
>> *From:* Lewis Bergman
>> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 8:18 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>
>> Maybe. At this point, I couldn't care less. Get it, don't get it. I don't
>> care anymore.
>>
>> On Sat, May 9, 2020, 9:07 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> I modified all the doors I could so you don’t have to use a hand to open
>>> them.
>>> Put an auto flush valve on the urinal.
>>> We asked all the guys to try to do the 6 foot thing.
>>> Logging temps with an IR thermometer each morning and posting them on a
>>> white board is surprisingly reassuring in a way.
>>> None of this is expensive or onerous or an overreaction and will work
>>> for all kinds of communicable diseases.
>>>
>>> I don’t want them to bring it back to me.  Everyone at my place is much
>>> younger than my wife and myself.  Silly for those in a particular age
>>> demographic to not be as careful as they can.  I also wear my seat belt,
>>> don’t smoke and try to keep my blood sugar and blood pressure low.  To me
>>> this is just more of the same.
>>>
>>> *From:* Lewis Bergman
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:54 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>>
>>> We changed nothing. No distancing, no work from home, no masks, no
>>> gloves. The only thing we are sick of is all the talk of covid. Workers
>>> comp covers this kind of thing and your ERA is based on the total
>>

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

2020-05-09 Thread Mathew Howard

That kind of thing makes sense to do, especially if you have people that
are at high risk. I don't want people within 6 feet of me when they don't
need to be anyway, so I'm good with that, and working from home when I can
means I can sleep until my phone starts ringing...

But a lot of the stuff I see people doing is just way overboard. We can
probably do 95% of what we do with out any real risk of exposing anyone to
anything.

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 9:07 AM  wrote:

> I modified all the doors I could so you don’t have to use a hand to open
> them.
> Put an auto flush valve on the urinal.
> We asked all the guys to try to do the 6 foot thing.
> Logging temps with an IR thermometer each morning and posting them on a
> white board is surprisingly reassuring in a way.
> None of this is expensive or onerous or an overreaction and will work for
> all kinds of communicable diseases.
>
> I don’t want them to bring it back to me.  Everyone at my place is much
> younger than my wife and myself.  Silly for those in a particular age
> demographic to not be as careful as they can.  I also wear my seat belt,
> don’t smoke and try to keep my blood sugar and blood pressure low.  To me
> this is just more of the same.
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:54 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
> We changed nothing. No distancing, no work from home, no masks, no gloves.
> The only thing we are sick of is all the talk of covid. Workers comp covers
> this kind of thing and your ERA is based on the total experience of like
> industries which presumably would experience similar sickness rates.
>
> Don't let the fear of liability stop you from doing anything productive.
>
> On Fri, May 8, 2020, 5:41 PM  wrote:
>
>> I never shut down.  I build critical infrastructure.
>> We distanced, made sure everyone was in their own vehicle.
>> Gave them all gloves and masks.  Make sure everyone’s temperature is
>> taken and logged each morning.
>>
>> If someone gets sick, who gave it to them and who gave it to that
>> person.  If you want to attempt to assign liability it would as difficult
>> as doing slavery reparations in a fair manner.
>>
>> The can sue China.
>>
>> *From:* Robert
>> *Sent:* Friday, May 8, 2020 4:20 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>
>> Act of God?   How would you deal with someone getting the flu or passing
>> it on?
>>
>> On 5/8/20 3:05 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>
>> Any lawyer will tell you that waiver only goes so far.
>>
>> On May 8, 2020, at 6:00 PM, Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Rotflmao. Waiver of liability. Literally that simple
>>
>> On Fri, May 8, 2020, 4:55 PM Matt Hoppes <
>> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>>
>>> As we look to reopen our operations, the one thing that remains is
>>> liability.
>>>
>>> How are you all addressing the liability if either your tech gets
>>> someone sick (and they die), or someone gets your tech sick (and now you
>>> have a potential OSHA issue on your hands.
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

2020-05-09 Thread Mike Hammett

Most of us will need to get it (or vaccines) to stop it's reach from getting to 
everyone. 

- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Steve Jones"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 9:50:29 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability 

That's why right now is the best time to get it. Matt and the talking heads 
keep saying that we all will eventually get this, and they wouldn't lie. So 
right now when the hospitals are empty and 60 percent of healthcare staff is 
laid off is the ideal time to get it. Get it in the fall when it resources 
(again, matt and the talking heads have guaranteed this) are taxed due to flu 
season, and survivability drops. 
>From day one I've said infection centers would be the absolute best tool to 
>fight this thing. The younger, healthier, medically screened people go and get 
>infected, and start treatment immediately. Its effectively the same thing as 
>vaccination with a few more steps. 
Morons say "well we dont know that getting it will make you immune" which is 
fine and good, maybe it's not like 99 percent of other viruses. But guess what 
that means. It means that there will never be a vaccine since that's what 
vaccines to (make your body think you've had the disease). Matt and the talking 
heads cannot have it both ways, science doesnt allow it. 

I'm in the same boat though, I want to maximize the time with my kids. I have 
this new fresh one that's still just a lump of dough, I'd like to get to know 
what he cooks into. But I wont do this teaching these little bastards to cower 
in the corner because the government says to, especially when the governments 
demands dont match the so called science they're basing it on. And the little 
dough ball isnt developing an immune system, he will be that pale gray sickly 
kid with a doctors note for PE soon if I dont get him exposed to some community 
germs. I'm about to go drag him across a truck stop floor 

On Sat, May 9, 2020, 9:35 AM < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 

I have not had nearly enough time with my grandkids yet. 
So, trying to optimize the chance of more time with grandkids. 

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 8:18 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability 

Maybe. At this point, I couldn't care less. Get it, don't get it. I don't care 
anymore. 

On Sat, May 9, 2020, 9:07 AM < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 

I modified all the doors I could so you don’t have to use a hand to open them. 
Put an auto flush valve on the urinal. 
We asked all the guys to try to do the 6 foot thing. 
Logging temps with an IR thermometer each morning and posting them on a white 
board is surprisingly reassuring in a way. 
None of this is expensive or onerous or an overreaction and will work for all 
kinds of communicable diseases. 

I don’t want them to bring it back to me. Everyone at my place is much younger 
than my wife and myself. Silly for those in a particular age demographic to not 
be as careful as they can. I also wear my seat belt, don’t smoke and try to 
keep my blood sugar and blood pressure low. To me this is just more of the 
same. 

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:54 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability 

We changed nothing. No distancing, no work from home, no masks, no gloves. The 
only thing we are sick of is all the talk of covid. Workers comp covers this 
kind of thing and your ERA is based on the total experience of like industries 
which presumably would experience similar sickness rates. 

Don't let the fear of liability stop you from doing anything productive. 

On Fri, May 8, 2020, 5:41 PM < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 

I never shut down. I build critical infrastructure. 
We distanced, made sure everyone was in their own vehicle. 
Gave them all gloves and masks. Make sure everyone’s temperature is taken and 
logged each morning. 

If someone gets sick, who gave it to them and who gave it to that person. If 
you want to attempt to assign liability it would as difficult as doing slavery 
reparations in a fair manner. 

The can sue China. 

From: Robert 
Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 4:20 PM 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability 

Act of God? How would you deal with someone getting the flu or passing it on? 

On 5/8/20 3:05 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: 

Any lawyer will tell you that waiver only goes so far. 

On May 8, 2020, at 6:00 PM, Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote: 

Rotflmao. Waiver of liability. Literally that simple 

On Fri, May 8, 2020, 4:55 PM Matt Hoppes < mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net > 
wrote: 

As we look to reopen our operations, the one thing that remains is liability. 

How are you all addressing the liability if e

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

2020-05-09 Thread Ken Hohhof

Here is our new field tech wearing company issued PPE.  He is also reputed to 
be immortal.

 



 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 9:35 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 

I have not had nearly enough time with my grandkids yet.  

So, trying to optimize the chance of more time with grandkids.

 

From: Lewis Bergman 

Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 8:18 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 

Maybe. At this point, I couldn't care less. Get it, don't get it. I don't care 
anymore. 

 

On Sat, May 9, 2020, 9:07 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

I modified all the doors I could so you don’t have to use a hand to open them.

Put an auto flush valve on the urinal.

We asked all the guys to try to do the 6 foot thing.

Logging temps with an IR thermometer each morning and posting them on a white 
board is surprisingly reassuring in a way.  

None of this is expensive or onerous or an overreaction and will work for all 
kinds of communicable diseases.  

 

I don’t want them to bring it back to me.  Everyone at my place is much younger 
than my wife and myself.  Silly for those in a particular age demographic to 
not be as careful as they can.  I also wear my seat belt, don’t smoke and try 
to keep my blood sugar and blood pressure low.  To me this is just more of the 
same.  

 

From: Lewis Bergman 

Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:54 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 

We changed nothing. No distancing, no work from home, no masks, no gloves. The 
only thing we are sick of is all the talk of covid. Workers comp covers this 
kind of thing and your ERA is based on the total experience of like industries 
which presumably would experience similar sickness rates. 

 

Don't let the fear of liability stop you from doing anything productive. 

 

On Fri, May 8, 2020, 5:41 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

I never shut down.  I build critical infrastructure.

We distanced, made sure everyone was in their own vehicle.

Gave them all gloves and masks.  Make sure everyone’s temperature is taken and 
logged each morning.

 

If someone gets sick, who gave it to them and who gave it to that person.  If 
you want to attempt to assign liability it would as difficult as doing slavery 
reparations in a fair manner.  

 

The can sue China.

 

From: Robert 

Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 4:20 PM

To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 

Act of God?   How would you deal with someone getting the flu or passing it on?

On 5/8/20 3:05 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Any lawyer will tell you that waiver only goes so far. 





On May 8, 2020, at 6:00 PM, Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote:

 

Rotflmao. Waiver of liability. Literally that simple

 

On Fri, May 8, 2020, 4:55 PM Matt Hoppes mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> > wrote:

As we look to reopen our operations, the one thing that remains is liability. 

How are you all addressing the liability if either your tech gets someone sick 
(and they die), or someone gets your tech sick (and now you have a potential 
OSHA issue on your hands.
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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

That's why right now is the best time to get it. Matt and the talking heads
keep saying that we all will eventually get this, and they wouldn't lie. So
right now when the hospitals are empty and 60 percent of healthcare staff
is laid off is the ideal time to get it. Get it in the fall when it
resources (again, matt and the talking heads have guaranteed this) are
taxed due to flu season, and survivability drops.
>From day one I've said infection centers would be the absolute best tool to
fight this thing. The younger, healthier, medically screened people go and
get infected, and start treatment immediately. Its effectively the same
thing as vaccination with a few more steps.
Morons say "well we dont know that getting it will make you immune" which
is fine and good, maybe it's not like 99 percent of other viruses. But
guess what that means. It means that there will never be a vaccine since
that's what vaccines to (make your body think you've had the disease). Matt
and the talking heads cannot have it both ways, science doesnt allow it.

I'm in the same boat though, I want to maximize the time with my kids. I
have this new fresh one that's still just a lump of dough, I'd like to get
to know what he cooks into. But I wont do this teaching these little
bastards to cower in the corner because the government says to, especially
when the governments demands dont match the so called science they're
basing it on. And the little dough ball isnt developing an immune system,
he will be that pale gray sickly kid with a doctors note for PE soon if I
dont get him exposed to some community germs. I'm about to go drag him
across a truck stop floor

On Sat, May 9, 2020, 9:35 AM  wrote:

> I have not had nearly enough time with my grandkids yet.
> So, trying to optimize the chance of more time with grandkids.
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 8:18 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
> Maybe. At this point, I couldn't care less. Get it, don't get it. I don't
> care anymore.
>
> On Sat, May 9, 2020, 9:07 AM  wrote:
>
>> I modified all the doors I could so you don’t have to use a hand to open
>> them.
>> Put an auto flush valve on the urinal.
>> We asked all the guys to try to do the 6 foot thing.
>> Logging temps with an IR thermometer each morning and posting them on a
>> white board is surprisingly reassuring in a way.
>> None of this is expensive or onerous or an overreaction and will work for
>> all kinds of communicable diseases.
>>
>> I don’t want them to bring it back to me.  Everyone at my place is much
>> younger than my wife and myself.  Silly for those in a particular age
>> demographic to not be as careful as they can.  I also wear my seat belt,
>> don’t smoke and try to keep my blood sugar and blood pressure low.  To me
>> this is just more of the same.
>>
>> *From:* Lewis Bergman
>> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:54 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>
>> We changed nothing. No distancing, no work from home, no masks, no
>> gloves. The only thing we are sick of is all the talk of covid. Workers
>> comp covers this kind of thing and your ERA is based on the total
>> experience of like industries which presumably would experience similar
>> sickness rates.
>>
>> Don't let the fear of liability stop you from doing anything productive.
>>
>> On Fri, May 8, 2020, 5:41 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> I never shut down.  I build critical infrastructure.
>>> We distanced, made sure everyone was in their own vehicle.
>>> Gave them all gloves and masks.  Make sure everyone’s temperature is
>>> taken and logged each morning.
>>>
>>> If someone gets sick, who gave it to them and who gave it to that
>>> person.  If you want to attempt to assign liability it would as difficult
>>> as doing slavery reparations in a fair manner.
>>>
>>> The can sue China.
>>>
>>> *From:* Robert
>>> *Sent:* Friday, May 8, 2020 4:20 PM
>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>>
>>> Act of God?   How would you deal with someone getting the flu or passing
>>> it on?
>>>
>>> On 5/8/20 3:05 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>>
>>> Any lawyer will tell you that waiver only goes so far.
>>>
>>> On May 8, 2020, at 6:00 PM, Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> Rotflmao. Waiver of liability. Literally that simple
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 8, 2020, 4:55 PM Matt Hoppes <
>>> mattli...@riv

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

2020-05-09 Thread chuck

Irrespective of how anyone actually feels, it never hurts to show your 
employees that you care about them.  Even if it is disingenuous.  

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 8:35 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

I have not had nearly enough time with my grandkids yet.  
So, trying to optimize the chance of more time with grandkids.

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 8:18 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Maybe. At this point, I couldn't care less. Get it, don't get it. I don't care 
anymore. 

On Sat, May 9, 2020, 9:07 AM  wrote:

  I modified all the doors I could so you don’t have to use a hand to open them.
  Put an auto flush valve on the urinal.
  We asked all the guys to try to do the 6 foot thing.
  Logging temps with an IR thermometer each morning and posting them on a white 
board is surprisingly reassuring in a way.  
  None of this is expensive or onerous or an overreaction and will work for all 
kinds of communicable diseases.  

  I don’t want them to bring it back to me.  Everyone at my place is much 
younger than my wife and myself.  Silly for those in a particular age 
demographic to not be as careful as they can.  I also wear my seat belt, don’t 
smoke and try to keep my blood sugar and blood pressure low.  To me this is 
just more of the same.  

  From: Lewis Bergman 
  Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:54 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

  We changed nothing. No distancing, no work from home, no masks, no gloves. 
The only thing we are sick of is all the talk of covid. Workers comp covers 
this kind of thing and your ERA is based on the total experience of like 
industries which presumably would experience similar sickness rates. 

  Don't let the fear of liability stop you from doing anything productive. 

  On Fri, May 8, 2020, 5:41 PM  wrote:

I never shut down.  I build critical infrastructure.
We distanced, made sure everyone was in their own vehicle.
Gave them all gloves and masks.  Make sure everyone’s temperature is taken 
and logged each morning.

If someone gets sick, who gave it to them and who gave it to that person.  
If you want to attempt to assign liability it would as difficult as doing 
slavery reparations in a fair manner.  

The can sue China.

From: Robert 
Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 4:20 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Act of God?   How would you deal with someone getting the flu or passing it 
on?

On 5/8/20 3:05 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

  Any lawyer will tell you that waiver only goes so far. 

On May 8, 2020, at 6:00 PM, Steve Jones 
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote:

Rotflmao. Waiver of liability. Literally that simple

On Fri, May 8, 2020, 4:55 PM Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:

  As we look to reopen our operations, the one thing that remains is 
liability. 

  How are you all addressing the liability if either your tech gets 
someone sick (and they die), or someone gets your tech sick (and now you have a 
potential OSHA issue on your hands.
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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

2020-05-09 Thread chuck

I have not had nearly enough time with my grandkids yet.  
So, trying to optimize the chance of more time with grandkids.

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 8:18 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Maybe. At this point, I couldn't care less. Get it, don't get it. I don't care 
anymore. 

On Sat, May 9, 2020, 9:07 AM  wrote:

  I modified all the doors I could so you don’t have to use a hand to open them.
  Put an auto flush valve on the urinal.
  We asked all the guys to try to do the 6 foot thing.
  Logging temps with an IR thermometer each morning and posting them on a white 
board is surprisingly reassuring in a way.  
  None of this is expensive or onerous or an overreaction and will work for all 
kinds of communicable diseases.  

  I don’t want them to bring it back to me.  Everyone at my place is much 
younger than my wife and myself.  Silly for those in a particular age 
demographic to not be as careful as they can.  I also wear my seat belt, don’t 
smoke and try to keep my blood sugar and blood pressure low.  To me this is 
just more of the same.  

  From: Lewis Bergman 
  Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:54 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

  We changed nothing. No distancing, no work from home, no masks, no gloves. 
The only thing we are sick of is all the talk of covid. Workers comp covers 
this kind of thing and your ERA is based on the total experience of like 
industries which presumably would experience similar sickness rates. 

  Don't let the fear of liability stop you from doing anything productive. 

  On Fri, May 8, 2020, 5:41 PM  wrote:

I never shut down.  I build critical infrastructure.
We distanced, made sure everyone was in their own vehicle.
Gave them all gloves and masks.  Make sure everyone’s temperature is taken 
and logged each morning.

If someone gets sick, who gave it to them and who gave it to that person.  
If you want to attempt to assign liability it would as difficult as doing 
slavery reparations in a fair manner.  

The can sue China.

From: Robert 
Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 4:20 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Act of God?   How would you deal with someone getting the flu or passing it 
on?

On 5/8/20 3:05 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

  Any lawyer will tell you that waiver only goes so far. 

On May 8, 2020, at 6:00 PM, Steve Jones 
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote:

Rotflmao. Waiver of liability. Literally that simple

On Fri, May 8, 2020, 4:55 PM Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:

  As we look to reopen our operations, the one thing that remains is 
liability. 

  How are you all addressing the liability if either your tech gets 
someone sick (and they die), or someone gets your tech sick (and now you have a 
potential OSHA issue on your hands.
  -- 
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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

2020-05-09 Thread Lewis Bergman

Maybe. At this point, I couldn't care less. Get it, don't get it. I don't
care anymore.

On Sat, May 9, 2020, 9:07 AM  wrote:

> I modified all the doors I could so you don’t have to use a hand to open
> them.
> Put an auto flush valve on the urinal.
> We asked all the guys to try to do the 6 foot thing.
> Logging temps with an IR thermometer each morning and posting them on a
> white board is surprisingly reassuring in a way.
> None of this is expensive or onerous or an overreaction and will work for
> all kinds of communicable diseases.
>
> I don’t want them to bring it back to me.  Everyone at my place is much
> younger than my wife and myself.  Silly for those in a particular age
> demographic to not be as careful as they can.  I also wear my seat belt,
> don’t smoke and try to keep my blood sugar and blood pressure low.  To me
> this is just more of the same.
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:54 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
> We changed nothing. No distancing, no work from home, no masks, no gloves.
> The only thing we are sick of is all the talk of covid. Workers comp covers
> this kind of thing and your ERA is based on the total experience of like
> industries which presumably would experience similar sickness rates.
>
> Don't let the fear of liability stop you from doing anything productive.
>
> On Fri, May 8, 2020, 5:41 PM  wrote:
>
>> I never shut down.  I build critical infrastructure.
>> We distanced, made sure everyone was in their own vehicle.
>> Gave them all gloves and masks.  Make sure everyone’s temperature is
>> taken and logged each morning.
>>
>> If someone gets sick, who gave it to them and who gave it to that
>> person.  If you want to attempt to assign liability it would as difficult
>> as doing slavery reparations in a fair manner.
>>
>> The can sue China.
>>
>> *From:* Robert
>> *Sent:* Friday, May 8, 2020 4:20 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>
>> Act of God?   How would you deal with someone getting the flu or passing
>> it on?
>>
>> On 5/8/20 3:05 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>
>> Any lawyer will tell you that waiver only goes so far.
>>
>> On May 8, 2020, at 6:00 PM, Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Rotflmao. Waiver of liability. Literally that simple
>>
>> On Fri, May 8, 2020, 4:55 PM Matt Hoppes <
>> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>>
>>> As we look to reopen our operations, the one thing that remains is
>>> liability.
>>>
>>> How are you all addressing the liability if either your tech gets
>>> someone sick (and they die), or someone gets your tech sick (and now you
>>> have a potential OSHA issue on your hands.
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability