subject:"Re\: \[AFMUG\] Centos is dead\?"

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-18 Thread Adam Moffett


Yes that's a fact.  LTS on Ubuntu is only 5 years.

You can also get onto the next release with a CLI command.  I think it's 
do-release-upgrade.  If I don't want to do a real migration to the next 
release I'll just take a snapshot and run the upgrade.  It usually works 
fine.


On 12/18/2020 10:59 AM, Matt wrote:
How long is LTS on Ubuntu compared to what Centos was?  I think LTS is 
5 years vs 10 years with Centos?






On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 8:04 PM Steve Jones <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:


I just rebuilt our librenms server on ubuntu. It doesnt seem bad,
lots of google answers. Webmin looks cool, dont knownifnits the
new webmin or because it's on ubuntu. I dont care for the weird
adapter naming and this yaml thing for configuring them. Commands
arent that different.
Not sure if theres a way to enable root user or not.
I like that a lot of google advice is nano centric and not vi, I
never could figure out vi

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 7:11 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

Cool.  I hope they change the name though.

This is reminding me of Mickey Mouse as the Sorcerer’s
Apprentice in Fantasia, when he tries to stop the broom with
an ax, only to have the splinters turn into a multitude of brooms.

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
*Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2020 6:23 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

More options:


https://www.zdnet.com/article/cloudlinux-to-invest-more-than-a-million-dollar-a-year-into-centos-clone/

<https://www.zdnet.com/article/cloudlinux-to-invest-more-than-a-million-dollar-a-year-into-centos-clone/>

bp



On 12/13/2020 12:42 PM, Josh Baird wrote:

RHEL pricing is highly dependent on volume.  Nobody
typically pays advertised pricing.  But, it's still not
cheap, especially at scale.  You can buy per instance (or
guest) or license an entire hypervisor for unlimited
instances of RHEL.

Your subscription basically allows you to access their
repository of updates (think yum/dnf update), knowledge
base, and ability to open cases (with some levels of
subscription).

On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 2:47 PM Ken Hohhof
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

Just to cover all the bases, what does it cost to use
RHEL?  I find their web page a little confusing. Is it
$350 or $800?  And that’s per server per year, right? 
Does it turn into a pumpkin if you don’t renew the
license every year?  That seems pretty expensive
especially if you don’t need support and are basically
just getting a distribution and repositories for open
source software.

Actually I’m still a little confused about their
pricing.  The $350 version says no VMs and not
intended for production use.  Does that mean you are
violating the terms of the license if you use it in
production, or just their way of saying you can’t open
support tickets?  And are there add-ons that would be
cost yet more for a basic server application?

For the first few years I actually used RHEL, I forget
if I had to pay upfront or every year.  That just does
not sound feasible.

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Lincs
Chel
*Sent:* Sunday, December 13, 2020 1:27 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

Hi Josh;

OK.  Thanks for expanding your thoughts and info on
the Oracle Linux distro and Oracle.  It allows one to
appreciate the context.  This will certainly educate
and assist an inexperienced Linux user who is
information gathering to make some sound judgements
about the CentOS and Oracle Linux distros and where to go.

Yeah, I concur with your view that the majority of
users that is currently using the free CentOS distro,
is most likely going to be seeking the same in any
alternative they elect to use as a replacement for
CentOS.  Also Oracle's past history on acquisitions
and Open Source projects certainly makes one really
think hard about going into their camp; Java, MySQL,
ZFS etc. comes to mind.

Most of the Linux training I

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-18 Thread Matt

How long is LTS on Ubuntu compared to what Centos was?  I think LTS is 5
years vs 10 years with Centos?





On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 8:04 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> I just rebuilt our librenms server on ubuntu. It doesnt seem bad, lots of
> google answers. Webmin looks cool, dont knownifnits the new webmin or
> because it's on ubuntu. I dont care for the weird adapter naming and this
> yaml thing for configuring them. Commands arent that different.
> Not sure if theres a way to enable root user or not.
> I like that a lot of google advice is nano centric and not vi, I never
> could figure out vi
>
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 7:11 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Cool.  I hope they change the name though.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is reminding me of Mickey Mouse as the Sorcerer’s Apprentice in
>> Fantasia, when he tries to stop the broom with an ax, only to have the
>> splinters turn into a multitude of brooms.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
>> *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2020 6:23 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
>>
>>
>>
>> More options:
>>
>>
>> https://www.zdnet.com/article/cloudlinux-to-invest-more-than-a-million-dollar-a-year-into-centos-clone/
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>>
>> 
>>
>> On 12/13/2020 12:42 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
>>
>> RHEL pricing is highly dependent on volume.  Nobody typically pays
>> advertised pricing.  But, it's still not cheap, especially at scale.  You
>> can buy per instance (or guest) or license an entire hypervisor for
>> unlimited instances of RHEL.
>>
>>
>>
>> Your subscription basically allows you to access their repository of
>> updates (think yum/dnf update), knowledge base, and ability to open cases
>> (with some levels of subscription).
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 2:47 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>> Just to cover all the bases, what does it cost to use RHEL?  I find their
>> web page a little confusing.  Is it $350 or $800?  And that’s per server
>> per year, right?  Does it turn into a pumpkin if you don’t renew the
>> license every year?  That seems pretty expensive especially if you don’t
>> need support and are basically just getting a distribution and repositories
>> for open source software.
>>
>>
>>
>> Actually I’m still a little confused about their pricing.  The $350
>> version says no VMs and not intended for production use.  Does that mean
>> you are violating the terms of the license if you use it in production, or
>> just their way of saying you can’t open support tickets?  And are there
>> add-ons that would be cost yet more for a basic server application?
>>
>>
>>
>> For the first few years I actually used RHEL, I forget if I had to pay
>> upfront or every year.  That just does not sound feasible.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Lincs Chel
>> *Sent:* Sunday, December 13, 2020 1:27 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Josh;
>>
>> OK.  Thanks for expanding your thoughts and info on the Oracle Linux
>> distro and Oracle.  It allows one to appreciate the context.  This will
>> certainly educate and assist an inexperienced Linux user who is information
>> gathering to make some sound judgements about the CentOS and Oracle Linux
>> distros and where to go.
>>
>> Yeah, I concur with your view that the majority of users that is
>> currently using the free CentOS distro, is most likely going to be seeking
>> the same in any alternative they elect to use as a replacement for CentOS.
>> Also Oracle's past history on acquisitions and Open Source projects
>> certainly makes one really think hard about going into their camp;  Java,
>> MySQL, ZFS etc. comes to mind.
>>
>> Most of the Linux training I have come across so far also seems to use
>> CentOS as a start.  So this will be interesting as well.
>>
>> Lincoln
>>
>> On 13/12/2020 10:02 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
>>
>> Lincs,
>>
>>
>>
>> One could also say that Stream is also a "direct binary replacement" for
>> CentOS.  In fact, to switch a CentOS system to Steam, all you need to do is
>> modify your repo definitions.
>>
>>
>>
>> You are correct, OL isn't meant to be only used for Oracle software and
>> appliances, but it usually is. I didn't mean to insinuate otherwise.  You
>> will very rarely find a shop running OL just because they w

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-18 Thread Ken Hohhof

I’m sure it’s been posted before, but here it is anyway:

https://xkcd.com/149/

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, December 18, 2020 8:36 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

 

sudo -i

 

is better than

 

sudo su



-
Mike Hammett
 <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>  
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 
 <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>  
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> 
 <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP
 <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>  
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> 




  _  

From: "Robert" mailto:i...@avantwireless.com> >
To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 8:12:27 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

sudo su -

passwd

put in a password, and root is enabled...

On 12/17/20 6:03 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

I just rebuilt our librenms server on ubuntu. It doesnt seem bad, lots of 
google answers. Webmin looks cool, dont knownifnits the new webmin or because 
it's on ubuntu. I dont care for the weird adapter naming and this yaml thing 
for configuring them. Commands arent that different.  

Not sure if theres a way to enable root user or not.

I like that a lot of google advice is nano centric and not vi, I never could 
figure out vi

 

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 7:11 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

Cool.  I hope they change the name though.

 

This is reminding me of Mickey Mouse as the Sorcerer’s Apprentice in Fantasia, 
when he tries to stop the broom with an ax, only to have the splinters turn 
into a multitude of brooms.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Bill Prince
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 6:23 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

 

More options: 

https://www.zdnet.com/article/cloudlinux-to-invest-more-than-a-million-dollar-a-year-into-centos-clone/

 

bp


On 12/13/2020 12:42 PM, Josh Baird wrote:

RHEL pricing is highly dependent on volume.  Nobody typically pays advertised 
pricing.  But, it's still not cheap, especially at scale.  You can buy per 
instance (or guest) or license an entire hypervisor for unlimited instances of 
RHEL.   

 

Your subscription basically allows you to access their repository of updates 
(think yum/dnf update), knowledge base, and ability to open cases (with some 
levels of subscription).  

 

On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 2:47 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

Just to cover all the bases, what does it cost to use RHEL?  I find their web 
page a little confusing.  Is it $350 or $800?  And that’s per server per year, 
right?  Does it turn into a pumpkin if you don’t renew the license every year?  
That seems pretty expensive especially if you don’t need support and are 
basically just getting a distribution and repositories for open source software.

 

Actually I’m still a little confused about their pricing.  The $350 version 
says no VMs and not intended for production use.  Does that mean you are 
violating the terms of the license if you use it in production, or just their 
way of saying you can’t open support tickets?  And are there add-ons that would 
be cost yet more for a basic server application?

 

For the first few years I actually used RHEL, I forget if I had to pay upfront 
or every year.  That just does not sound feasible.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Lincs Chel
Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2020 1:27 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

 

Hi Josh;

OK.  Thanks for expanding your thoughts and info on the Oracle Linux distro and 
Oracle.  It allows one to appreciate the context.  This will certainly educate 
and assist an inexperienced Linux user who is information gathering to make 
some sound judgements about the CentOS and Oracle Linux distros and where to go.

Yeah, I concur with your view that the majority of users that is currently 
using the free CentOS distro, is most likely going to be seeking the same in 
any alternative they elect to use as a replacement for CentOS.  Also Oracle's 
past history on acquisitions and Open Source projects certainly makes one 
really think hard about going into their camp;  Java, MySQL, ZFS etc. comes to 
mind.

Most of the Linux training I have come across so far also seems to use CentOS 
as a start.  So this will be interesting as well.

Lincoln

On 13/12/2020 10:02 AM, Josh Baird wrote:

Lincs, 

 

One could also s

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-18 Thread Mike Hammett

sudo -i 


is better than 


sudo su 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Robert"  
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 8:12:27 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead? 

sudo su - 

passwd 

put in a password, and root is enabled... 


On 12/17/20 6:03 PM, Steve Jones wrote: 



I just rebuilt our librenms server on ubuntu. It doesnt seem bad, lots of 
google answers. Webmin looks cool, dont knownifnits the new webmin or because 
it's on ubuntu. I dont care for the weird adapter naming and this yaml thing 
for configuring them. Commands arent that different. 
Not sure if theres a way to enable root user or not. 
I like that a lot of google advice is nano centric and not vi, I never could 
figure out vi 


On Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 7:11 PM Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 





Cool. I hope they change the name though. 

This is reminding me of Mickey Mouse as the Sorcerer’s Apprentice in Fantasia, 
when he tries to stop the broom with an ax, only to have the splinters turn 
into a multitude of brooms. 




From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Bill Prince 
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 6:23 PM 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead? 

More options: 
https://www.zdnet.com/article/cloudlinux-to-invest-more-than-a-million-dollar-a-year-into-centos-clone/
 
bp  

On 12/13/2020 12:42 PM, Josh Baird wrote: 



RHEL pricing is highly dependent on volume. Nobody typically pays advertised 
pricing. But, it's still not cheap, especially at scale. You can buy per 
instance (or guest) or license an entire hypervisor for unlimited instances of 
RHEL. 



Your subscription basically allows you to access their repository of updates 
(think yum/dnf update), knowledge base, and ability to open cases (with some 
levels of subscription). 



On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 2:47 PM Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 




Just to cover all the bases, what does it cost to use RHEL? I find their web 
page a little confusing. Is it $350 or $800? And that’s per server per year, 
right? Does it turn into a pumpkin if you don’t renew the license every year? 
That seems pretty expensive especially if you don’t need support and are 
basically just getting a distribution and repositories for open source 
software. 

Actually I’m still a little confused about their pricing. The $350 version says 
no VMs and not intended for production use. Does that mean you are violating 
the terms of the license if you use it in production, or just their way of 
saying you can’t open support tickets? And are there add-ons that would be cost 
yet more for a basic server application? 

For the first few years I actually used RHEL, I forget if I had to pay upfront 
or every year. That just does not sound feasible. 



From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Lincs Chel 
Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2020 1:27 PM 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead? 

Hi Josh; 
OK. Thanks for expanding your thoughts and info on the Oracle Linux distro and 
Oracle. It allows one to appreciate the context. This will certainly educate 
and assist an inexperienced Linux user who is information gathering to make 
some sound judgements about the CentOS and Oracle Linux distros and where to 
go. 
Yeah, I concur with your view that the majority of users that is currently 
using the free CentOS distro, is most likely going to be seeking the same in 
any alternative they elect to use as a replacement for CentOS. Also Oracle's 
past history on acquisitions and Open Source projects certainly makes one 
really think hard about going into their camp; Java, MySQL, ZFS etc. comes to 
mind. 
Most of the Linux training I have come across so far also seems to use CentOS 
as a start. So this will be interesting as well. 
Lincoln 

On 13/12/2020 10:02 AM, Josh Baird wrote: 



Lincs, 



One could also say that Stream is also a "direct binary replacement" for 
CentOS. In fact, to switch a CentOS system to Steam, all you need to do is 
modify your repo definitions. 



You are correct, OL isn't meant to be only used for Oracle software and 
appliances, but it usually is. I didn't mean to insinuate otherwise. You will 
very rarely find a shop running OL just because they want to. 



Bottom line - Oracle is a monster that I don't want to get in bed with. I was 
in the enterprise sector for many years and saw first hand how terrible 
Oracle's products and software really is. I have watched companies spend 
*millions* of dollars on Oracle products that are barely functional and could 
have been replaced with other working solutions at a fraction of the cost. 
Nothing you say will convince me otherwise :) To each his own, though! 



Ultimately, I don't believe the majority of CentOS users will want to pay for 
RHEL/OL. They will just switch to Steam/Rock

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-18 Thread Mike Hammett

Don't enable the root user. 


A lot of the new ways of doing things would have happened in the CentOS world 
at some point. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Steve Jones"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 8:03:15 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead? 


I just rebuilt our librenms server on ubuntu. It doesnt seem bad, lots of 
google answers. Webmin looks cool, dont knownifnits the new webmin or because 
it's on ubuntu. I dont care for the weird adapter naming and this yaml thing 
for configuring them. Commands arent that different. 
Not sure if theres a way to enable root user or not. 
I like that a lot of google advice is nano centric and not vi, I never could 
figure out vi 


On Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 7:11 PM Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 





Cool. I hope they change the name though. 

This is reminding me of Mickey Mouse as the Sorcerer’s Apprentice in Fantasia, 
when he tries to stop the broom with an ax, only to have the splinters turn 
into a multitude of brooms. 




From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Bill Prince 
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 6:23 PM 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead? 

More options: 
https://www.zdnet.com/article/cloudlinux-to-invest-more-than-a-million-dollar-a-year-into-centos-clone/
 
bp  

On 12/13/2020 12:42 PM, Josh Baird wrote: 



RHEL pricing is highly dependent on volume. Nobody typically pays advertised 
pricing. But, it's still not cheap, especially at scale. You can buy per 
instance (or guest) or license an entire hypervisor for unlimited instances of 
RHEL. 



Your subscription basically allows you to access their repository of updates 
(think yum/dnf update), knowledge base, and ability to open cases (with some 
levels of subscription). 



On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 2:47 PM Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 




Just to cover all the bases, what does it cost to use RHEL? I find their web 
page a little confusing. Is it $350 or $800? And that’s per server per year, 
right? Does it turn into a pumpkin if you don’t renew the license every year? 
That seems pretty expensive especially if you don’t need support and are 
basically just getting a distribution and repositories for open source 
software. 

Actually I’m still a little confused about their pricing. The $350 version says 
no VMs and not intended for production use. Does that mean you are violating 
the terms of the license if you use it in production, or just their way of 
saying you can’t open support tickets? And are there add-ons that would be cost 
yet more for a basic server application? 

For the first few years I actually used RHEL, I forget if I had to pay upfront 
or every year. That just does not sound feasible. 



From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Lincs Chel 
Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2020 1:27 PM 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead? 

Hi Josh; 
OK. Thanks for expanding your thoughts and info on the Oracle Linux distro and 
Oracle. It allows one to appreciate the context. This will certainly educate 
and assist an inexperienced Linux user who is information gathering to make 
some sound judgements about the CentOS and Oracle Linux distros and where to 
go. 
Yeah, I concur with your view that the majority of users that is currently 
using the free CentOS distro, is most likely going to be seeking the same in 
any alternative they elect to use as a replacement for CentOS. Also Oracle's 
past history on acquisitions and Open Source projects certainly makes one 
really think hard about going into their camp; Java, MySQL, ZFS etc. comes to 
mind. 
Most of the Linux training I have come across so far also seems to use CentOS 
as a start. So this will be interesting as well. 
Lincoln 

On 13/12/2020 10:02 AM, Josh Baird wrote: 



Lincs, 



One could also say that Stream is also a "direct binary replacement" for 
CentOS. In fact, to switch a CentOS system to Steam, all you need to do is 
modify your repo definitions. 



You are correct, OL isn't meant to be only used for Oracle software and 
appliances, but it usually is. I didn't mean to insinuate otherwise. You will 
very rarely find a shop running OL just because they want to. 



Bottom line - Oracle is a monster that I don't want to get in bed with. I was 
in the enterprise sector for many years and saw first hand how terrible 
Oracle's products and software really is. I have watched companies spend 
*millions* of dollars on Oracle products that are barely functional and could 
have been replaced with other working solutions at a fraction of the cost. 
Nothing you say will convince me otherwise :) To each his own, though! 



Ultimately, I don't believe the majority of CentOS users will want to pay for 
RHEL/OL. They will just switch to

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-18 Thread Adam Moffett

Ubuntu has been my go-to for years.  It seems to have the greatest 
probability of built in packages working without as expected without 
dicking around too much.


The yaml stuff is new and I don't like it either.  I'm not sure why we 
need a markup language to configure network interfaces.



On 12/17/2020 9:03 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
I just rebuilt our librenms server on ubuntu. It doesnt seem bad, lots 
of google answers. Webmin looks cool, dont knownifnits the new webmin 
or because it's on ubuntu. I dont care for the weird adapter naming 
and this yaml thing for configuring them. Commands arent that different.

Not sure if theres a way to enable root user or not.
I like that a lot of google advice is nano centric and not vi, I never 
could figure out vi


On Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 7:11 PM Ken Hohhof <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:


Cool.  I hope they change the name though.

This is reminding me of Mickey Mouse as the Sorcerer’s Apprentice
in Fantasia, when he tries to stop the broom with an ax, only to
have the splinters turn into a multitude of brooms.

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
*Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2020 6:23 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

More options:


https://www.zdnet.com/article/cloudlinux-to-invest-more-than-a-million-dollar-a-year-into-centos-clone/

<https://www.zdnet.com/article/cloudlinux-to-invest-more-than-a-million-dollar-a-year-into-centos-clone/>

bp



On 12/13/2020 12:42 PM, Josh Baird wrote:

RHEL pricing is highly dependent on volume.  Nobody typically
pays advertised pricing.  But, it's still not cheap,
especially at scale.  You can buy per instance (or guest) or
license an entire hypervisor for unlimited instances of RHEL.

Your subscription basically allows you to access their
repository of updates (think yum/dnf update), knowledge base,
and ability to open cases (with some levels of subscription).

On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 2:47 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

Just to cover all the bases, what does it cost to use
RHEL?  I find their web page a little confusing.  Is it
$350 or $800?  And that’s per server per year, right? 
Does it turn into a pumpkin if you don’t renew the license
every year?  That seems pretty expensive especially if you
don’t need support and are basically just getting a
distribution and repositories for open source software.

Actually I’m still a little confused about their pricing. 
The $350 version says no VMs and not intended for
production use.  Does that mean you are violating the
terms of the license if you use it in production, or just
their way of saying you can’t open support tickets?  And
are there add-ons that would be cost yet more for a basic
server application?

For the first few years I actually used RHEL, I forget if
I had to pay upfront or every year.  That just does not
sound feasible.

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Lincs Chel
*Sent:* Sunday, December 13, 2020 1:27 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

Hi Josh;

OK.  Thanks for expanding your thoughts and info on the
Oracle Linux distro and Oracle. It allows one to
appreciate the context.  This will certainly educate and
assist an inexperienced Linux user who is information
gathering to make some sound judgements about the CentOS
and Oracle Linux distros and where to go.

Yeah, I concur with your view that the majority of users
that is currently using the free CentOS distro, is most
likely going to be seeking the same in any alternative
they elect to use as a replacement for CentOS.  Also
Oracle's past history on acquisitions and Open Source
projects certainly makes one really think hard about going
into their camp;  Java, MySQL, ZFS etc. comes to mind.

Most of the Linux training I have come across so far also
seems to use CentOS as a start. So this will be
interesting as well.

Lincoln

On 13/12/2020 10:02 AM, Josh Baird wrote:

Lincs,

One could also say that Stream is also a "direct
binary replacement" for CentOS.  In fact, to switch a
CentOS system to Steam, all you need to do is modify
your repo definitions.

You are correct, OL isn't me

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-17 Thread Mathew Howard

This is true. I never have liked Nano...

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 8:44 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> +1 Sudo is your friend.
>
> vi is the best editor. Do not argue with me.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 12/17/2020 6:12 PM, Robert wrote:
>
> sudo su -
>
> passwd
>
> put in a password, and root is enabled...
>
> On 12/17/20 6:03 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> I just rebuilt our librenms server on ubuntu. It doesnt seem bad, lots of
> google answers. Webmin looks cool, dont knownifnits the new webmin or
> because it's on ubuntu. I dont care for the weird adapter naming and this
> yaml thing for configuring them. Commands arent that different.
> Not sure if theres a way to enable root user or not.
> I like that a lot of google advice is nano centric and not vi, I never
> could figure out vi
>
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 7:11 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Cool.  I hope they change the name though.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is reminding me of Mickey Mouse as the Sorcerer’s Apprentice in
>> Fantasia, when he tries to stop the broom with an ax, only to have the
>> splinters turn into a multitude of brooms.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
>> *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2020 6:23 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
>>
>>
>>
>> More options:
>>
>>
>> https://www.zdnet.com/article/cloudlinux-to-invest-more-than-a-million-dollar-a-year-into-centos-clone/
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>>
>> 
>>
>> On 12/13/2020 12:42 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
>>
>> RHEL pricing is highly dependent on volume.  Nobody typically pays
>> advertised pricing.  But, it's still not cheap, especially at scale.  You
>> can buy per instance (or guest) or license an entire hypervisor for
>> unlimited instances of RHEL.
>>
>>
>>
>> Your subscription basically allows you to access their repository of
>> updates (think yum/dnf update), knowledge base, and ability to open cases
>> (with some levels of subscription).
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 2:47 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>> Just to cover all the bases, what does it cost to use RHEL?  I find their
>> web page a little confusing.  Is it $350 or $800?  And that’s per server
>> per year, right?  Does it turn into a pumpkin if you don’t renew the
>> license every year?  That seems pretty expensive especially if you don’t
>> need support and are basically just getting a distribution and repositories
>> for open source software.
>>
>>
>>
>> Actually I’m still a little confused about their pricing.  The $350
>> version says no VMs and not intended for production use.  Does that mean
>> you are violating the terms of the license if you use it in production, or
>> just their way of saying you can’t open support tickets?  And are there
>> add-ons that would be cost yet more for a basic server application?
>>
>>
>>
>> For the first few years I actually used RHEL, I forget if I had to pay
>> upfront or every year.  That just does not sound feasible.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Lincs Chel
>> *Sent:* Sunday, December 13, 2020 1:27 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Josh;
>>
>> OK.  Thanks for expanding your thoughts and info on the Oracle Linux
>> distro and Oracle.  It allows one to appreciate the context.  This will
>> certainly educate and assist an inexperienced Linux user who is information
>> gathering to make some sound judgements about the CentOS and Oracle Linux
>> distros and where to go.
>>
>> Yeah, I concur with your view that the majority of users that is
>> currently using the free CentOS distro, is most likely going to be seeking
>> the same in any alternative they elect to use as a replacement for CentOS.
>> Also Oracle's past history on acquisitions and Open Source projects
>> certainly makes one really think hard about going into their camp;  Java,
>> MySQL, ZFS etc. comes to mind.
>>
>> Most of the Linux training I have come across so far also seems to use
>> CentOS as a start.  So this will be interesting as well.
>>
>> Lincoln
>>
>> On 13/12/2020 10:02 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
>>
>> Lincs,
>>
>>
>>
>> One could also say that Stream is also a "direct binary replacement" for
>> CentOS.  In fact, to switch a CentOS system to Steam, all you need to do is
>> modify your repo definitions.
>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-17 Thread Bill Prince


  
  
+1 Sudo is your friend.
vi is the best editor. Do not argue with me.


bp

On 12/17/2020 6:12 PM, Robert wrote:


  
  sudo su -

passwd

put in a password, and root is enabled...
  
  On 12/17/20 6:03 PM, Steve Jones
wrote:
  
  

I just rebuilt our librenms server on ubuntu. It
  doesnt seem bad, lots of google answers. Webmin looks cool,
  dont knownifnits the new webmin or because it's on ubuntu. I
  dont care for the weird adapter naming and this yaml thing for
  configuring them. Commands arent that different. 
  Not sure if theres a way to enable root user
or not.
  I like that a lot of google advice is nano
centric and not vi, I never could figure out vi



  On Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 7:11
PM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
  
  

  
Cool.  I hope they change the name
  though.
 
This is reminding me of Mickey
  Mouse as the Sorcerer’s Apprentice in Fantasia, when
  he tries to stop the broom with an ax, only to have
  the splinters turn into a multitude of brooms.
 
 

  
From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com>
  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
  Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 6:23 PM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
      Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
  

 
More options: 
https://www.zdnet.com/article/cloudlinux-to-invest-more-than-a-million-dollar-a-year-into-centos-clone/
 
bp


  On 12/13/2020 12:42 PM, Josh
Baird wrote:


  
RHEL pricing is highly
  dependent on volume.  Nobody typically pays
  advertised pricing.  But, it's still not cheap,
  especially at scale.  You can buy per instance (or
  guest) or license an entire hypervisor for
  unlimited instances of RHEL.   

   


  Your subscription basically
allows you to access their repository of updates
(think yum/dnf update), knowledge base, and
ability to open cases (with some levels of
subscription).  

  
   
  

  On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 2:47
PM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com>
wrote:


  

  Just to cover all the
bases, what does it cost to use RHEL?  I
find their web page a little confusing.  Is
it $350 or $800?  And that’s per server per
year, right?  Does it turn into a pumpkin if
you don’t renew the license every year? 
That seems pretty expensive especially if
you don’t need support and are basically
just getting a distribution and repositories
for open source software.
   
  Actually I’m still a
little confused about their pricing.  The
$350 version says no VMs and not intended
for production use.  Does that mean you are
violating the terms of the license if you
use it in production, or just their way of
saying you can’t open support tickets?  And
are there add-ons that would be cost yet
more for a basic server application?
   
  For the first few years I
actually used RHEL, I forget if I had to pay
upfront or every year.  That just does not
sound feasible.
   
  

  From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com>

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-17 Thread Robert

sudo su -

passwd

put in a password, and root is enabled...

On 12/17/20 6:03 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
I just rebuilt our librenms server on ubuntu. It doesnt seem bad, lots
of google answers. Webmin looks cool, dont knownifnits the new webmin
or because it's on ubuntu. I dont care for the weird adapter naming
and this yaml thing for configuring them. Commands arent that different.

Not sure if theres a way to enable root user or not.
I like that a lot of google advice is nano centric and not vi, I never
could figure out vi

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 7:11 PM Ken Hohhof <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

Cool. I hope they change the name though.

This is reminding me of Mickey Mouse as the Sorcerer’s Apprentice
in Fantasia, when he tries to stop the broom with an ax, only to
have the splinters turn into a multitude of brooms.

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
*Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2020 6:23 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

More options:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/cloudlinux-to-invest-more-than-a-million-dollar-a-year-into-centos-clone/

<https://www.zdnet.com/article/cloudlinux-to-invest-more-than-a-million-dollar-a-year-into-centos-clone/>

On 12/13/2020 12:42 PM, Josh Baird wrote:

RHEL pricing is highly dependent on volume. Nobody typically
pays advertised pricing. But, it's still not cheap,
especially at scale. You can buy per instance (or guest) or
license an entire hypervisor for unlimited instances of RHEL.

Your subscription basically allows you to access their
repository of updates (think yum/dnf update), knowledge base,
and ability to open cases (with some levels of subscription).

On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 2:47 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

Just to cover all the bases, what does it cost to use
RHEL? I find their web page a little confusing. Is it
$350 or $800? And that’s per server per year, right?
Does it turn into a pumpkin if you don’t renew the license
every year? That seems pretty expensive especially if you
don’t need support and are basically just getting a
distribution and repositories for open source software.

Actually I’m still a little confused about their pricing.
The $350 version says no VMs and not intended for
production use. Does that mean you are violating the
terms of the license if you use it in production, or just
their way of saying you can’t open support tickets? And
are there add-ons that would be cost yet more for a basic
server application?

For the first few years I actually used RHEL, I forget if
I had to pay upfront or every year. That just does not
sound feasible.

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Lincs Chel
*Sent:* Sunday, December 13, 2020 1:27 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

Hi Josh;

OK. Thanks for expanding your thoughts and info on the
Oracle Linux distro and Oracle. It allows one to
appreciate the context. This will certainly educate and
assist an inexperienced Linux user who is information
gathering to make some sound judgements about the CentOS
and Oracle Linux distros and where to go.

Yeah, I concur with your view that the majority of users
that is currently using the free CentOS distro, is most
likely going to be seeking the same in any alternative
they elect to use as a replacement for CentOS. Also
Oracle's past history on acquisitions and Open Source
projects certainly makes one really think hard about going
into their camp; Java, MySQL, ZFS etc. comes to mind.

Most of the Linux training I have come across so far also
seems to use CentOS as a start. So this will be
interesting as well.

Lincoln

On 13/12/2020 10:02 AM, Josh Baird wrote:

Lincs,

One could also say that Stream is also a "direct
binary replacement" for CentOS. In fact, to switch a
CentOS system to Steam, all you need to do is modify
your repo definitions.

You are correct, OL isn't meant to be only used for
Oracle software and appliances, but it usually is. I
didn't mean to insinuate otherwise. You will very
rarely find a shop running OL just because they want to.

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-17 Thread Steve Jones

I just rebuilt our librenms server on ubuntu. It doesnt seem bad, lots of
google answers. Webmin looks cool, dont knownifnits the new webmin or
because it's on ubuntu. I dont care for the weird adapter naming and this
yaml thing for configuring them. Commands arent that different.
Not sure if theres a way to enable root user or not.
I like that a lot of google advice is nano centric and not vi, I never
could figure out vi

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 7:11 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Cool.  I hope they change the name though.
>
>
>
> This is reminding me of Mickey Mouse as the Sorcerer’s Apprentice in
> Fantasia, when he tries to stop the broom with an ax, only to have the
> splinters turn into a multitude of brooms.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2020 6:23 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
>
>
>
> More options:
>
>
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/cloudlinux-to-invest-more-than-a-million-dollar-a-year-into-centos-clone/
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
> On 12/13/2020 12:42 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
>
> RHEL pricing is highly dependent on volume.  Nobody typically pays
> advertised pricing.  But, it's still not cheap, especially at scale.  You
> can buy per instance (or guest) or license an entire hypervisor for
> unlimited instances of RHEL.
>
>
>
> Your subscription basically allows you to access their repository of
> updates (think yum/dnf update), knowledge base, and ability to open cases
> (with some levels of subscription).
>
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 2:47 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Just to cover all the bases, what does it cost to use RHEL?  I find their
> web page a little confusing.  Is it $350 or $800?  And that’s per server
> per year, right?  Does it turn into a pumpkin if you don’t renew the
> license every year?  That seems pretty expensive especially if you don’t
> need support and are basically just getting a distribution and repositories
> for open source software.
>
>
>
> Actually I’m still a little confused about their pricing.  The $350
> version says no VMs and not intended for production use.  Does that mean
> you are violating the terms of the license if you use it in production, or
> just their way of saying you can’t open support tickets?  And are there
> add-ons that would be cost yet more for a basic server application?
>
>
>
> For the first few years I actually used RHEL, I forget if I had to pay
> upfront or every year.  That just does not sound feasible.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Lincs Chel
> *Sent:* Sunday, December 13, 2020 1:27 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
>
>
>
> Hi Josh;
>
> OK.  Thanks for expanding your thoughts and info on the Oracle Linux
> distro and Oracle.  It allows one to appreciate the context.  This will
> certainly educate and assist an inexperienced Linux user who is information
> gathering to make some sound judgements about the CentOS and Oracle Linux
> distros and where to go.
>
> Yeah, I concur with your view that the majority of users that is currently
> using the free CentOS distro, is most likely going to be seeking the same
> in any alternative they elect to use as a replacement for CentOS.  Also
> Oracle's past history on acquisitions and Open Source projects certainly
> makes one really think hard about going into their camp;  Java, MySQL, ZFS
> etc. comes to mind.
>
> Most of the Linux training I have come across so far also seems to use
> CentOS as a start.  So this will be interesting as well.
>
> Lincoln
>
> On 13/12/2020 10:02 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
>
> Lincs,
>
>
>
> One could also say that Stream is also a "direct binary replacement" for
> CentOS.  In fact, to switch a CentOS system to Steam, all you need to do is
> modify your repo definitions.
>
>
>
> You are correct, OL isn't meant to be only used for Oracle software and
> appliances, but it usually is. I didn't mean to insinuate otherwise.  You
> will very rarely find a shop running OL just because they want to.
>
>
>
> Bottom line - Oracle is a monster that I don't want to get in bed with.  I
> was in the enterprise sector for many years and saw first hand how terrible
> Oracle's products and software really is.  I have watched companies spend
> *millions* of dollars on Oracle products that are barely functional and
> could have been replaced with other working solutions at a fraction of the
> cost. Nothing you say will convince me otherwise :)  To each his own,
> though!
>
>
>
> Ultimately, I don't believe the majority of CentOS users will want to pay
> for RHEL/OL.  They will just switch to

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-17 Thread Ken Hohhof

Cool.  I hope they change the name though.

 

This is reminding me of Mickey Mouse as the Sorcerer’s Apprentice in Fantasia, 
when he tries to stop the broom with an ax, only to have the splinters turn 
into a multitude of brooms.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 6:23 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

 

More options: 

https://www.zdnet.com/article/cloudlinux-to-invest-more-than-a-million-dollar-a-year-into-centos-clone/

 

bp


On 12/13/2020 12:42 PM, Josh Baird wrote:

RHEL pricing is highly dependent on volume.  Nobody typically pays advertised 
pricing.  But, it's still not cheap, especially at scale.  You can buy per 
instance (or guest) or license an entire hypervisor for unlimited instances of 
RHEL.   

 

Your subscription basically allows you to access their repository of updates 
(think yum/dnf update), knowledge base, and ability to open cases (with some 
levels of subscription).  

 

On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 2:47 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

Just to cover all the bases, what does it cost to use RHEL?  I find their web 
page a little confusing.  Is it $350 or $800?  And that’s per server per year, 
right?  Does it turn into a pumpkin if you don’t renew the license every year?  
That seems pretty expensive especially if you don’t need support and are 
basically just getting a distribution and repositories for open source software.

 

Actually I’m still a little confused about their pricing.  The $350 version 
says no VMs and not intended for production use.  Does that mean you are 
violating the terms of the license if you use it in production, or just their 
way of saying you can’t open support tickets?  And are there add-ons that would 
be cost yet more for a basic server application?

 

For the first few years I actually used RHEL, I forget if I had to pay upfront 
or every year.  That just does not sound feasible.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Lincs Chel
Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2020 1:27 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

 

Hi Josh;

OK.  Thanks for expanding your thoughts and info on the Oracle Linux distro and 
Oracle.  It allows one to appreciate the context.  This will certainly educate 
and assist an inexperienced Linux user who is information gathering to make 
some sound judgements about the CentOS and Oracle Linux distros and where to go.

Yeah, I concur with your view that the majority of users that is currently 
using the free CentOS distro, is most likely going to be seeking the same in 
any alternative they elect to use as a replacement for CentOS.  Also Oracle's 
past history on acquisitions and Open Source projects certainly makes one 
really think hard about going into their camp;  Java, MySQL, ZFS etc. comes to 
mind.

Most of the Linux training I have come across so far also seems to use CentOS 
as a start.  So this will be interesting as well.

Lincoln

On 13/12/2020 10:02 AM, Josh Baird wrote:

Lincs, 

 

One could also say that Stream is also a "direct binary replacement" for 
CentOS.  In fact, to switch a CentOS system to Steam, all you need to do is 
modify your repo definitions.  

 

You are correct, OL isn't meant to be only used for Oracle software and 
appliances, but it usually is. I didn't mean to insinuate otherwise.  You will 
very rarely find a shop running OL just because they want to.  

 

Bottom line - Oracle is a monster that I don't want to get in bed with.  I was 
in the enterprise sector for many years and saw first hand how terrible 
Oracle's products and software really is.  I have watched companies spend 
*millions* of dollars on Oracle products that are barely functional and could 
have been replaced with other working solutions at a fraction of the cost. 
Nothing you say will convince me otherwise :)  To each his own, though!  

 

Ultimately, I don't believe the majority of CentOS users will want to pay for 
RHEL/OL.  They will just switch to Steam/Rocky/etc or make the move to Debian 
(which can be a massive undertaking in itself depending on how much 
time/effort/money you have invested in tooling, etc for EL based distros).  

 

Cheers,

 

Josh

 

On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 8:44 AM Lincs Chel mailto:lhan...@enc-tech.com> > wrote:

Hi Josh;

An interesting 'emotional' response to the CentOS dilemma .  It seems to miss 
the objective of finding an immediate, short-term and/or possible long-term 
solution for a CentOS replacement for the community.  If you look at the Oracle 
Linux information, it is a direct binary replacement for CentOS right out of 
the box; usable right-away.  Nor does it appear to be just an appliance based 
product and only meant for Oracle software.  That would be a misleading 
characterization of their product and to an inexperienced Linux end-user.  It's 
almost suggesting to a person, that you can't run o

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-17 Thread Bill Prince


  
  
More options: 

https://www.zdnet.com/article/cloudlinux-to-invest-more-than-a-million-dollar-a-year-into-centos-clone/


bp

On 12/13/2020 12:42 PM, Josh Baird
  wrote:


  
  RHEL pricing is highly dependent on volume.  Nobody
typically pays advertised pricing.  But, it's still not cheap,
especially at scale.  You can buy per instance (or guest) or
license an entire hypervisor for unlimited instances of RHEL.  


Your subscription basically allows you to access their
  repository of updates (think yum/dnf update), knowledge base,
  and ability to open cases (with some levels of
  subscription).  
  
  
  
On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 2:47
  PM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:


  

  Just to cover all the bases, what
does it cost to use RHEL?  I find their web page a
little confusing.  Is it $350 or $800?  And that’s per
server per year, right?  Does it turn into a pumpkin if
you don’t renew the license every year?  That seems
pretty expensive especially if you don’t need support
and are basically just getting a distribution and
repositories for open source software.
   
  Actually I’m still a little confused
about their pricing.  The $350 version says no VMs and
not intended for production use.  Does that mean you are
violating the terms of the license if you use it in
production, or just their way of saying you can’t open
support tickets?  And are there add-ons that would be
cost yet more for a basic server application?
   
  For the first few years I actually
used RHEL, I forget if I had to pay upfront or every
year.  That just does not sound feasible.
   
  

  From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com>
On Behalf Of Lincs Chel
Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2020 1:27 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

  
   
  Hi Josh;
  OK.  Thanks for expanding your thoughts and info on the
Oracle Linux distro and Oracle.  It allows one to
appreciate the context.  This will certainly educate and
assist an inexperienced Linux user who is information
gathering to make some sound judgements about the CentOS
and Oracle Linux distros and where to go.
  Yeah, I concur with your view that the majority of
users that is currently using the free CentOS distro, is
most likely going to be seeking the same in any
alternative they elect to use as a replacement for
CentOS.  Also Oracle's past history on acquisitions and
Open Source projects certainly makes one really think
hard about going into their camp;  Java, MySQL, ZFS etc.
comes to mind.
  Most of the Linux training I have come across so far
also seems to use CentOS as a start.  So this will be
interesting as well.
  Lincoln
  
On 13/12/2020 10:02 AM, Josh Baird
  wrote:
  
  

  Lincs, 
  
 
  
  
One could also say that Stream
  is also a "direct binary replacement" for CentOS. 
  In fact, to switch a CentOS system to Steam, all
  you need to do is modify your repo definitions.  
  
  
 
  
  
You are correct, OL isn't meant
  to be only used for Oracle software and
  appliances, but it usually is. I didn't mean to
  insinuate otherwise.  You will very rarely find a
  shop running OL just because they want to.  
  
  
 
  
  
Bottom line - Oracle is a
  monster that I don't want to get in bed with.  I
  was in the enterprise sector for many years and
  saw first hand how terrible Oracle's products and
  software really is.  I have watched companies
  spend *millions* of doll

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-13 Thread Bill Prince


  
  
Oh yeah. His compound in Woodside after renovation is worth an
  estimated $200 million, plus he bought most of the Hawaiian island
  of Lanai, as well as "a couple dozen places around Malibu CA".

Just your ordinary guy you'd want to have a beer with. He was
  also close friends with Steve Jobs, which somehow diminishes Steve
  Jobs in my mind.
Larry
Ellison's real estate holdings.

bp

On 12/13/2020 11:55 AM, Ken Hohhof
  wrote:


  
  
  
  
  
I find it weird that he’s a Trump
  supporter, maybe not quite at the level of the My Pillow guy. 
  But Trump thought him enough of an ally to steer the Tik Tok
  deal to Oracle.  The reason I find it weird is that he seems
  like just the kind of rich, entitled coastal elite that MAGA
  people hate.  He does have a hot much younger girlfriend and a
  bunch of ex wives, maybe that’s relevant somehow.  Doesn’t he
  race sailboats too?  Just your average guy.
 
 

  
From: AF
   On Behalf Of Bill
  Prince
  Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2020 1:42 PM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
  

 
I have similar feelings about Oracle. I have several friends
  who went there at one time or another, and the general
  consensus is that Larry Ellison is only a notch or two less
  ruthless than Darth Vader.
Look also the crap they have done with Java.
 
bp


  On 12/13/2020 11:27 AM, Lincs Chel wrote:


  Hi Josh;
  OK.  Thanks for expanding your thoughts and info on the
Oracle Linux distro and Oracle.  It allows one to appreciate
the context.  This will certainly educate and assist an
inexperienced Linux user who is information gathering to
make some sound judgements about the CentOS and Oracle Linux
distros and where to go.
  Yeah, I concur with your view that the majority of users
that is currently using the free CentOS distro, is most
likely going to be seeking the same in any alternative they
elect to use as a replacement for CentOS.  Also Oracle's
past history on acquisitions and Open Source projects
certainly makes one really think hard about going into their
camp;  Java, MySQL, ZFS etc. comes to mind.
  Most of the Linux training I have come across so far also
seems to use CentOS as a start.  So this will be interesting
as well.
  Lincoln
  
On 13/12/2020 10:02 AM, Josh Baird
  wrote:
  
  

  Lincs, 
  
 
  
  
One could also say that Stream is
  also a "direct binary replacement" for CentOS.  In
  fact, to switch a CentOS system to Steam, all you need
  to do is modify your repo definitions.  
  
  
 
  
  
You are correct, OL isn't meant to
  be only used for Oracle software and appliances, but
  it usually is. I didn't mean to insinuate otherwise. 
  You will very rarely find a shop running OL just
  because they want to.  
  
  
 
  
  
Bottom line - Oracle is a monster
  that I don't want to get in bed with.  I was in the
  enterprise sector for many years and saw first hand
  how terrible Oracle's products and software really
  is.  I have watched companies spend *millions* of
  dollars on Oracle products that are barely functional
  and could have been replaced with other working
  solutions at a fraction of the cost. Nothing you say
  will convince me otherwise :)  To each his own,
  though!  
  
  
 
  
  
Ultimately, I don't believe the
  majority of CentOS users will want to pay for
  RHEL/OL.  They will just switch to Steam/Rocky/etc or
  make the move to Debian (which can be a massive
  undertaking in itself depending on how much
  time/effort/money you have invested in tooling, etc
  for EL based distros).

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-13 Thread Josh Baird

RHEL pricing is highly dependent on volume.  Nobody typically pays
advertised pricing.  But, it's still not cheap, especially at scale.  You
can buy per instance (or guest) or license an entire hypervisor for
unlimited instances of RHEL.

Your subscription basically allows you to access their repository of
updates (think yum/dnf update), knowledge base, and ability to open cases
(with some levels of subscription).

On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 2:47 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Just to cover all the bases, what does it cost to use RHEL?  I find their
> web page a little confusing.  Is it $350 or $800?  And that’s per server
> per year, right?  Does it turn into a pumpkin if you don’t renew the
> license every year?  That seems pretty expensive especially if you don’t
> need support and are basically just getting a distribution and repositories
> for open source software.
>
>
>
> Actually I’m still a little confused about their pricing.  The $350
> version says no VMs and not intended for production use.  Does that mean
> you are violating the terms of the license if you use it in production, or
> just their way of saying you can’t open support tickets?  And are there
> add-ons that would be cost yet more for a basic server application?
>
>
>
> For the first few years I actually used RHEL, I forget if I had to pay
> upfront or every year.  That just does not sound feasible.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Lincs Chel
> *Sent:* Sunday, December 13, 2020 1:27 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
>
>
>
> Hi Josh;
>
> OK.  Thanks for expanding your thoughts and info on the Oracle Linux
> distro and Oracle.  It allows one to appreciate the context.  This will
> certainly educate and assist an inexperienced Linux user who is information
> gathering to make some sound judgements about the CentOS and Oracle Linux
> distros and where to go.
>
> Yeah, I concur with your view that the majority of users that is currently
> using the free CentOS distro, is most likely going to be seeking the same
> in any alternative they elect to use as a replacement for CentOS.  Also
> Oracle's past history on acquisitions and Open Source projects certainly
> makes one really think hard about going into their camp;  Java, MySQL, ZFS
> etc. comes to mind.
>
> Most of the Linux training I have come across so far also seems to use
> CentOS as a start.  So this will be interesting as well.
>
> Lincoln
>
> On 13/12/2020 10:02 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
>
> Lincs,
>
>
>
> One could also say that Stream is also a "direct binary replacement" for
> CentOS.  In fact, to switch a CentOS system to Steam, all you need to do is
> modify your repo definitions.
>
>
>
> You are correct, OL isn't meant to be only used for Oracle software and
> appliances, but it usually is. I didn't mean to insinuate otherwise.  You
> will very rarely find a shop running OL just because they want to.
>
>
>
> Bottom line - Oracle is a monster that I don't want to get in bed with.  I
> was in the enterprise sector for many years and saw first hand how terrible
> Oracle's products and software really is.  I have watched companies spend
> *millions* of dollars on Oracle products that are barely functional and
> could have been replaced with other working solutions at a fraction of the
> cost. Nothing you say will convince me otherwise :)  To each his own,
> though!
>
>
>
> Ultimately, I don't believe the majority of CentOS users will want to pay
> for RHEL/OL.  They will just switch to Steam/Rocky/etc or make the move to
> Debian (which can be a massive undertaking in itself depending on how much
> time/effort/money you have invested in tooling, etc for EL based distros).
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Josh
>
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 8:44 AM Lincs Chel  wrote:
>
> Hi Josh;
>
> An interesting 'emotional' response to the CentOS dilemma .  It seems to
> miss the objective of finding an immediate, short-term and/or possible
> long-term solution for a CentOS replacement for the community.  If you look
> at the Oracle Linux information, it is a direct binary replacement for
> CentOS right out of the box; usable right-away.  Nor does it appear to be
> just an appliance based product and only meant for Oracle software.  That
> would be a misleading characterization of their product and to an
> inexperienced Linux end-user.  It's almost suggesting to a person, that you
> can't run other software on top of Microsoft Windows unless it came from
> Microsoft itself, or iOS, unless it's from Apple and so on.  It does
> however appear that they (Oracle) are suggesting that you will get a really
> great experience with their softwar

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-13 Thread Ken Hohhof

I find it weird that he’s a Trump supporter, maybe not quite at the level of 
the My Pillow guy.  But Trump thought him enough of an ally to steer the Tik 
Tok deal to Oracle.  The reason I find it weird is that he seems like just the 
kind of rich, entitled coastal elite that MAGA people hate.  He does have a hot 
much younger girlfriend and a bunch of ex wives, maybe that’s relevant somehow. 
 Doesn’t he race sailboats too?  Just your average guy.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2020 1:42 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

 

I have similar feelings about Oracle. I have several friends who went there at 
one time or another, and the general consensus is that Larry Ellison is only a 
notch or two less ruthless than Darth Vader.

Look also the crap they have done with Java.

 

bp


On 12/13/2020 11:27 AM, Lincs Chel wrote:

Hi Josh;

OK.  Thanks for expanding your thoughts and info on the Oracle Linux distro and 
Oracle.  It allows one to appreciate the context.  This will certainly educate 
and assist an inexperienced Linux user who is information gathering to make 
some sound judgements about the CentOS and Oracle Linux distros and where to go.

Yeah, I concur with your view that the majority of users that is currently 
using the free CentOS distro, is most likely going to be seeking the same in 
any alternative they elect to use as a replacement for CentOS.  Also Oracle's 
past history on acquisitions and Open Source projects certainly makes one 
really think hard about going into their camp;  Java, MySQL, ZFS etc. comes to 
mind.

Most of the Linux training I have come across so far also seems to use CentOS 
as a start.  So this will be interesting as well.

Lincoln

On 13/12/2020 10:02 AM, Josh Baird wrote:

Lincs, 

 

One could also say that Stream is also a "direct binary replacement" for 
CentOS.  In fact, to switch a CentOS system to Steam, all you need to do is 
modify your repo definitions.  

 

You are correct, OL isn't meant to be only used for Oracle software and 
appliances, but it usually is. I didn't mean to insinuate otherwise.  You will 
very rarely find a shop running OL just because they want to.  

 

Bottom line - Oracle is a monster that I don't want to get in bed with.  I was 
in the enterprise sector for many years and saw first hand how terrible 
Oracle's products and software really is.  I have watched companies spend 
*millions* of dollars on Oracle products that are barely functional and could 
have been replaced with other working solutions at a fraction of the cost. 
Nothing you say will convince me otherwise :)  To each his own, though!  

 

Ultimately, I don't believe the majority of CentOS users will want to pay for 
RHEL/OL.  They will just switch to Steam/Rocky/etc or make the move to Debian 
(which can be a massive undertaking in itself depending on how much 
time/effort/money you have invested in tooling, etc for EL based distros).  

 

Cheers,

 

Josh

 

On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 8:44 AM Lincs Chel mailto:lhan...@enc-tech.com> > wrote:

Hi Josh;

An interesting 'emotional' response to the CentOS dilemma .  It seems to miss 
the objective of finding an immediate, short-term and/or possible long-term 
solution for a CentOS replacement for the community.  If you look at the Oracle 
Linux information, it is a direct binary replacement for CentOS right out of 
the box; usable right-away.  Nor does it appear to be just an appliance based 
product and only meant for Oracle software.  That would be a misleading 
characterization of their product and to an inexperienced Linux end-user.  It's 
almost suggesting to a person, that you can't run other software on top of 
Microsoft Windows unless it came from Microsoft itself, or iOS, unless it's 
from Apple and so on.  It does however appear that they (Oracle) are suggesting 
that you will get a really great experience with their software running on top 
of Oracle Linux rather than RedHat's version or CentOS or some other Linux 
distro.  I also think Oracle Linux is being positioned for the cloud based 
network in which all of the big-ones wants to compete head-to-head.  Oracle 
Linux gives Oracle sort of control as to an OS you can readily and easily pick 
when on their cloud platform that is based on a well known Open Source Linux.  
Makes sense for them to keep it going.  I suspect IBM is positioning itself 
like that as well.  They now have RedHat on their cloud platform and control 
its direction.  They're all aiming for AWS and Microsoft (which has Azure and 
Windows).

Oracle Linux code and/or OS runs without any contortions for the end-user, both 
experienced and inexperienced Linux users can benefit from this.  Essentially 
one can basically continue running a CentOS environment right now if they wish 
and/or choose to do so using the Oracle Linux software.  And, more importantly 
without any subscription fees, i.e. for free.  I think th

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-13 Thread Ken Hohhof

Just to cover all the bases, what does it cost to use RHEL?  I find their web 
page a little confusing.  Is it $350 or $800?  And that’s per server per year, 
right?  Does it turn into a pumpkin if you don’t renew the license every year?  
That seems pretty expensive especially if you don’t need support and are 
basically just getting a distribution and repositories for open source software.

 

Actually I’m still a little confused about their pricing.  The $350 version 
says no VMs and not intended for production use.  Does that mean you are 
violating the terms of the license if you use it in production, or just their 
way of saying you can’t open support tickets?  And are there add-ons that would 
be cost yet more for a basic server application?

 

For the first few years I actually used RHEL, I forget if I had to pay upfront 
or every year.  That just does not sound feasible.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Lincs Chel
Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2020 1:27 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

 

Hi Josh;

OK.  Thanks for expanding your thoughts and info on the Oracle Linux distro and 
Oracle.  It allows one to appreciate the context.  This will certainly educate 
and assist an inexperienced Linux user who is information gathering to make 
some sound judgements about the CentOS and Oracle Linux distros and where to go.

Yeah, I concur with your view that the majority of users that is currently 
using the free CentOS distro, is most likely going to be seeking the same in 
any alternative they elect to use as a replacement for CentOS.  Also Oracle's 
past history on acquisitions and Open Source projects certainly makes one 
really think hard about going into their camp;  Java, MySQL, ZFS etc. comes to 
mind.

Most of the Linux training I have come across so far also seems to use CentOS 
as a start.  So this will be interesting as well.

Lincoln

On 13/12/2020 10:02 AM, Josh Baird wrote:

Lincs, 

 

One could also say that Stream is also a "direct binary replacement" for 
CentOS.  In fact, to switch a CentOS system to Steam, all you need to do is 
modify your repo definitions.  

 

You are correct, OL isn't meant to be only used for Oracle software and 
appliances, but it usually is. I didn't mean to insinuate otherwise.  You will 
very rarely find a shop running OL just because they want to.  

 

Bottom line - Oracle is a monster that I don't want to get in bed with.  I was 
in the enterprise sector for many years and saw first hand how terrible 
Oracle's products and software really is.  I have watched companies spend 
*millions* of dollars on Oracle products that are barely functional and could 
have been replaced with other working solutions at a fraction of the cost. 
Nothing you say will convince me otherwise :)  To each his own, though!  

 

Ultimately, I don't believe the majority of CentOS users will want to pay for 
RHEL/OL.  They will just switch to Steam/Rocky/etc or make the move to Debian 
(which can be a massive undertaking in itself depending on how much 
time/effort/money you have invested in tooling, etc for EL based distros).  

 

Cheers,

 

Josh

 

On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 8:44 AM Lincs Chel mailto:lhan...@enc-tech.com> > wrote:

Hi Josh;

An interesting 'emotional' response to the CentOS dilemma .  It seems to miss 
the objective of finding an immediate, short-term and/or possible long-term 
solution for a CentOS replacement for the community.  If you look at the Oracle 
Linux information, it is a direct binary replacement for CentOS right out of 
the box; usable right-away.  Nor does it appear to be just an appliance based 
product and only meant for Oracle software.  That would be a misleading 
characterization of their product and to an inexperienced Linux end-user.  It's 
almost suggesting to a person, that you can't run other software on top of 
Microsoft Windows unless it came from Microsoft itself, or iOS, unless it's 
from Apple and so on.  It does however appear that they (Oracle) are suggesting 
that you will get a really great experience with their software running on top 
of Oracle Linux rather than RedHat's version or CentOS or some other Linux 
distro.  I also think Oracle Linux is being positioned for the cloud based 
network in which all of the big-ones wants to compete head-to-head.  Oracle 
Linux gives Oracle sort of control as to an OS you can readily and easily pick 
when on their cloud platform that is based on a well known Open Source Linux.  
Makes sense for them to keep it going.  I suspect IBM is positioning itself 
like that as well.  They now have RedHat on their cloud platform and control 
its direction.  They're all aiming for AWS and Microsoft (which has Azure and 
Windows).

Oracle Linux code and/or OS runs without any contortions for the end-user, both 
experienced and inexperienced Linux users can benefit from this.  Essentially 
one can basically continue running a CentOS environment right now if they wish 
and

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-13 Thread Bill Prince

imalFarm
    Microwave Users Group' 
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG]
  Centos is dead?
  

 
  
  

  I guess it would
have been naïve of us all to expect
no change when IBM acquired RedHat.
   
  
From: AF
  
  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
  Sent: Friday, December 11,
  2020 11:58 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave
      Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos
  is dead?
  
   
  
Holy shit, I
  just took a cursory look at redhat
  pricing. Starts at 350 a year per
  server, physical server only, and
  not intended for production use.
  2500 a year for the data center if
  I read it right

   


  I run webmin
to manage package updates and
BIND. If I'm reading correctly
ubuntu isnt terrible, just less
security patched since it's all
opensource and not subsidized by
a big dog like red hat. Probably
doable, but no yum.


   


  Has something
like this happenned with centos
historically? I assume the linux
community will bring about a
comparable solution or
resolution. 


   


  This just
stinks, I had my centos process
down.


   


  Is this end
of life like a microst end of
life where they just keep
patching and saying they mean it
this time for years?


   
  
 
  
  
 
  

  
   
  

  On Fri, Dec
11, 2020, 11:28 PM Ken Hohhof
<af...@kwisp.com>
wrote:


  

  Supposedly
there will be CentOS
Stream?  Kind of like RHEL
beta instead of RHEL day

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-13 Thread Lincs Chel

y new free-software licensing terms and
models software companies.

CloudLinux is also an option for a direct replacement. But this
appears to be only by subscription only for right now. When I
had last checked on it, it was not free and required a
subscription that didn't appear inexpensive. But more expensive
for someone that is usually accustomed to paying $0.00 for their
server software.

Lincoln

On 13/12/2020 12:16 AM, Josh Baird wrote:

Sorry, but nobody in their right mind runs Oracle Linux unless
you're using Oracle software and appliances that require you to
run OL for support.

On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 10:22 PM Lincs Chel mailto:lhan...@enc-tech.com>> wrote:

Hi;

I think another option to consider would be Oracle Linux.
Consider the following from their blog, news and website:-

If you are reading this blog, you are probably a CentOS
user and are in the position where you need to look at
alternatives going forward. Switching to Oracle Linux is
easy.

o
https://blogs.oracle.com/linux/need-a-stable%2c-rhel-compatible-alternative-to-centos-three-reasons-to-consider-oracle-linux
*
Need a stable, RHEL compatible alternative to CentOS?

o https://www.oracle.com/linux/

Another option if you're using cPanel & WHM is to most likely
use them as a good guide:-

* cPanel Support For CentOS 8 And More
o https://blog.cpanel.com/centos-8-end-of-life-announcement/

And, if you're coming from the old Cobalt Networks RaQ server
era days and/or BlueOnyx, they have a good blog, news &
comments. Probably their posture may be the best position to
take when looking and/or want to "marry" with a particular
distro which had various roadmaps during their history.

BlueOnyx has been available on CentOS since CentOS 5,
but as the CentOS project never was without issues and
unpredictability. Therefore we've never been fully
"married" to it. It's always been more of a matter of
convenience than one of choice. We even departed briefly
from CentOS during the CentOS 6 days and favored
Scientific Linux 6 instead. Since then we kept our eyes
and ears open for alternatives and also contemplated
contingencies.

* You are here: Welcome to BlueOnyx» News
CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream
o
https://www.blueonyx.it/news/280/54/CentOS-Project-shifts-focus-to-CentOS-Stream/d,Simplex%20News%20Detail

Based on BlueOnyx website news, they have indicated the
original founder of CentOS is considering a possible return:-

And like mentioned above: We're not the only ones whom
RedHat pulled the rug out from under our feet.

In fact Gregory Kurtzer (co-founder of CentOS) had this
to say

<https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/#comment-183642>:

I am considering creating another rebuild of RHEL
and may even be able to hire some people for this
effort. If you are interested in helping, please
join the HPCng slack (link on the website hpcng.org
<http://hpcng.org>).

Greg (original founder of CentOS)

If you've installed and use cnMaestro and Cambium's software
on CentOS, then the impact may even be more on your
operations. I am guessing Cambium's cnMaestro may drop
support for CentOS eventually.

Lincoln

On 12/12/2020 11:39 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

The only real issue is which version of linux you want hook
your wagon to. I used Centos for quite a long time; mainly
because it was "enterprise". Then it go too "enterprise" for
my taste, and have since switched to Debian. It's the same,
but different. Same enough for my taste, and down-homey
enough for the small operation we are.

NBD.

On 12/12/2020 8:14 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Linux... linux is free... right?
*From:* Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Saturday, December 12, 2020 8:39 AM
*To:* 'Animal

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-13 Thread Dave

Long live Debian and its variants :)

On 12/13/2020 12:02 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

This is another discussion about the alternatives. Keep in mind, this
is just another opinion.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/12/centos-linux-is-gone-but-its-refugees-have-alternatives/

To summarize:

1. CentOS Stream
2. Oracle Linux
3. Cloud Linux
4. Springdale Linux
5. Rocky Linux
6. HPE ClearOS

On 12/12/2020 7:19 PM, Lincs Chel wrote:

Hi;

I think another option to consider would be Oracle Linux. Consider
the following from their blog, news and website:-

If you are reading this blog, you are probably a CentOS user and
are in the position where you need to look at alternatives going
forward. Switching to Oracle Linux is easy.

o
https://blogs.oracle.com/linux/need-a-stable%2c-rhel-compatible-alternative-to-centos-three-reasons-to-consider-oracle-linux

<https://blogs.oracle.com/linux/need-a-stable%2c-rhel-compatible-alternative-to-centos-three-reasons-to-consider-oracle-linux>
*
Need a stable, RHEL compatible alternative to CentOS?

o https://www.oracle.com/linux/ <https://www.oracle.com/linux/>

Another option if you're using cPanel & WHM is to most likely use
them as a good guide:-

* cPanel Support For CentOS 8 And More
o https://blog.cpanel.com/centos-8-end-of-life-announcement/
<https://blog.cpanel.com/centos-8-end-of-life-announcement/>

And, if you're coming from the old Cobalt Networks RaQ server era
days and/or BlueOnyx, they have a good blog, news & comments.
Probably their posture may be the best position to take when looking
and/or want to "marry" with a particular distro which had various
roadmaps during their history.

BlueOnyx has been available on CentOS since CentOS 5, but as the
CentOS project never was without issues and unpredictability.
Therefore we've never been fully "married" to it. It's always
been more of a matter of convenience than one of choice. We even
departed briefly from CentOS during the CentOS 6 days and
favored Scientific Linux 6 instead. Since then we kept our eyes
and ears open for alternatives and also contemplated contingencies.

* You are here: Welcome to BlueOnyx» News
CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream
o
https://www.blueonyx.it/news/280/54/CentOS-Project-shifts-focus-to-CentOS-Stream/d,Simplex%20News%20Detail

<https://www.blueonyx.it/news/280/54/CentOS-Project-shifts-focus-to-CentOS-Stream/d,Simplex%20News%20Detail>

Based on BlueOnyx website news, they have indicated the original
founder of CentOS is considering a possible return:-

And like mentioned above: We're not the only ones whom RedHat
pulled the rug out from under our feet.

In fact Gregory Kurtzer (co-founder of CentOS) had this to say
<https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/#comment-183642>:

I am considering creating another rebuild of RHEL and may
even be able to hire some people for this effort. If you are
interested in helping, please join the HPCng slack (link on
the website hpcng.org).

Greg (original founder of CentOS)

If you've installed and use cnMaestro and Cambium's software on
CentOS, then the impact may even be more on your operations. I am
guessing Cambium's cnMaestro may drop support for CentOS eventually.

Lincoln

On 12/12/2020 11:39 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

The only real issue is which version of linux you want hook your
wagon to. I used Centos for quite a long time; mainly because it was
"enterprise". Then it go too "enterprise" for my taste, and have
since switched to Debian. It's the same, but different. Same enough
for my taste, and down-homey enough for the small operation we are.

NBD.

On 12/12/2020 8:14 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Linux... linux is free... right?
*From:* Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Saturday, December 12, 2020 8:39 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

I guess it would have been naïve of us all to expect no change when
IBM acquired RedHat.

*From:* AF *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Friday, December 11, 2020 11:58 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

Holy shit, I just took a cursory look at redhat pricing. Starts at
350 a year per server, physical server only, and not intended for
production use. 2500 a year for the data center if I read it right

I r

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-13 Thread Bill Prince

This is another discussion about the alternatives. Keep in mind,
this is just another opinion.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/12/centos-linux-is-gone-but-its-refugees-have-alternatives/

To summarize:
1. CentOS Stream
2. Oracle Linux
3. Cloud Linux
4. Springdale Linux
5. Rocky Linux
6. HPE ClearOS

On 12/12/2020 7:19 PM, Lincs Chel
wrote:

Hi;
I think another option to consider would be Oracle Linux.
Consider the following from their blog, news and website:-

If you are reading this blog, you are
probably a CentOS user and are in the position where you
need to look at alternatives going forward. Switching to
Oracle Linux is easy.

https://blogs.oracle.com/linux/need-a-stable%2c-rhel-compatible-alternative-to-centos-three-reasons-to-consider-oracle-linux

Need a stable, RHEL compatible
alternative to CentOS?

https://www.oracle.com/linux/

Another option if you're using cPanel & WHM is to most
likely use them as a good guide:-

cPanel Support For CentOS 8 And More

https://blog.cpanel.com/centos-8-end-of-life-announcement/

BlueOnyx has been available on CentOS
since CentOS 5, but as the CentOS project never was without
issues and unpredictability. Therefore we've never been
fully "married" to it. It's always been more of a matter of
convenience than one of choice. We even departed briefly
from CentOS during the CentOS 6 days and favored Scientific
Linux 6 instead. Since then we kept our eyes and ears open
for alternatives and also contemplated contingencies.

You are here: Welcome to BlueOnyx» News
CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

https://www.blueonyx.it/news/280/54/CentOS-Project-shifts-focus-to-CentOS-Stream/d,Simplex%20News%20Detail

Based on BlueOnyx website news, they have indicated the
original founder of CentOS is considering a possible return:-

And like mentioned above: We're not the only ones whom
RedHat pulled the rug out from under our feet.
In fact Gregory Kurtzer (co-founder of CentOS) had
this to say:

I am considering creating another rebuild of RHEL and may
even be able to hire some people for this effort. If you
are interested in helping, please join the HPCng slack
(link on the website hpcng.org).
Greg (original founder of CentOS)

If you've installed and use cnMaestro and Cambium's software on
CentOS, then the impact may even be more on your operations. I
am guessing Cambium's cnMaestro may drop support for CentOS
eventually.

Lincoln

On 12/12/2020 11:39 AM, Bill Prince
wrote:

Mostly. IBM charges quite a bit for it, but they're big blue.
Not sure what they're getting out of their multi-billion
dollar purchase, but we would have to sit in their board room
to understand their thinking. I wouldn't be surprised to see
that they are saving money by getting all those community
developers do the work for next to nothing. Sure cuts down on
the expenses in the development department.
The only real issue is which version of linux you want hook
your wagon to. I used Centos for quite a long time; mainly
because it was "enterprise". Then it go too "enterprise" for
my taste, and have since switched to Debian. It's the same,
but different. Same enough for my taste, and down-homey enough
for the small operation we are.

NBD.

On 12/12/2020 8:14 AM, Chuck McCown
via AF wrote:

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-13 Thread Dave


+1000

On 12/11/2020 3:37 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
You picked the distro that has deep commercial roots. The company 
behind CentOS has been bought and sold at least twice that I know of. 
Might be better with Debian or one of its variants like Ubunty.


On Fri, Dec 11, 2020 at 3:21 PM Steve Jones > wrote:


Am I reading all this right? Redhat officially killed centos and
its tombstoned in 2021?

Everything I run is centos. It's not like I know centos but I have
my resource sets on where to go to resolve anything that pops up.

Is this just a normal thing in the linux world where something is
ended but actually just rebrands and keeps going or is it a legit
end of the OS?
-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




--
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-13 Thread Mike Hammett

Accurate and perhaps relevant. 

Oracle Linux is to RHEL what CentOS was to RHEL, a clone of RHEL. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Ken Hohhof"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2020 9:54:21 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead? 



Well, that blog post seems very persuasive. Doesn’t mean it’s accurate. Why 
have I never heard of Oracle Linux? I’m going to assume this is in no way an 
outgrowth of Solaris. 

My perhaps uninformed opinion of Oracle is negative, based on my opinion that 
Larry Ellison is a self-important rich dickhead, and that Oracle buys companies 
to kill them. Not sure that’s entirely accurate, or relevant to evaluating 
Oracle Linux. 

I am on the mailing list for BlueOnyx which is the successor to the old Sun 
Cobalt web hosting appliances and is built on CentOS. Michael Stauber the main 
developer said he has a side project to develop a Debian based version which 
has made little progress because moving his development environment from 
spitting out RPMs to DEBs turned out to be a monumental undertaking. Maybe I’ll 
ask about Oracle Linux on the list. People there will know tons more than me, 
and are often not shy about stating opinions. 



From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones 
Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2020 9:26 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead? 


I'm too old for this shit 



On Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 9:22 PM Lincs Chel < lhan...@enc-tech.com > wrote: 



Hi; 
I think another option to consider would be Oracle Linux. Consider the 
following from their blog, news and website:- 



* If you are reading this blog, you are probably a CentOS user and are in 
the position where you need to look at alternatives going forward. Switching to 
Oracle Linux is easy. 






* 
https://blogs.oracle.com/linux/need-a-stable%2c-rhel-compatible-alternative-to-centos-three-reasons-to-consider-oracle-linux
 




* 
Need a stable, RHEL compatible alternative to CentOS? 





* https://www.oracle.com/linux/ 


Another option if you're using cPanel & WHM is to most likely use them as a 
good guide:- 

* cPanel Support For CentOS 8 And More 




* 
https://blog.cpanel.com/centos-8-end-of-life-announcement/ 


And, if you're coming from the old Cobalt Networks RaQ server era days and/or 
BlueOnyx, they have a good blog, news & comments. Probably their posture may be 
the best position to take when looking and/or want to "marry" with a particular 
distro which had various roadmaps during their history. 



* BlueOnyx has been available on CentOS since CentOS 5, but as the CentOS 
project never was without issues and unpredictability. Therefore we've never 
been fully "married" to it. It's always been more of a matter of convenience 
than one of choice. We even departed briefly from CentOS during the CentOS 6 
days and favored Scientific Linux 6 instead. Since then we kept our eyes and 
ears open for alternatives and also contemplated contingencies. 





* You are here: Welcome to BlueOnyx» News CentOS Project shifts focus to 
CentOS Stream 




* 
https://www.blueonyx.it/news/280/54/CentOS-Project-shifts-focus-to-CentOS-Stream/d,Simplex%20News%20Detail
 


Based on BlueOnyx website news, they have indicated the original founder of 
CentOS is considering a possible return:- 




And like mentioned above: We're not the only ones whom RedHat pulled the rug 
out from under our feet. 
In fact Gregory Kurtzer (co-founder of CentOS) had this to say : 


I am considering creating another rebuild of RHEL and may even be able to hire 
some people for this effort. If you are interested in helping, please join the 
HPCng slack (link on the website hpcng.org ). 
Greg (original founder of CentOS) 







If you've installed and use cnMaestro and Cambium's software on CentOS, then 
the impact may even be more on your operations. I am guessing Cambium's 
cnMaestro may drop support for CentOS eventually. 

Lincoln 


On 12/12/2020 11:39 AM, Bill Prince wrote: 


Mostly. IBM charges quite a bit for it, but they're big blue. Not sure what 
they're getting out of their multi-billion dollar purchase, but we would have 
to sit in their board room to understand their thinking. I wouldn't be 
surprised to see that they are saving money by getting all those community 
developers do the work for next to nothing. Sure cuts down on the expenses in 
the development department. 
The only real issue is which version of linux you want hook your wagon to. I 
used Centos for quite a long time; mainly because it was "enterprise". Then it 
go too "enterprise" for my taste, and have since switched to Debian. It's the 
same, but different. Same enough for my taste, and down-homey enough for the 
small operation we are.

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-13 Thread Josh Baird

 reading this blog, you are probably a CentOS user and are
>>in the position where you need to look at alternatives going forward.
>>Switching to Oracle Linux is easy.
>>
>>-
>>   
>> https://blogs.oracle.com/linux/need-a-stable%2c-rhel-compatible-alternative-to-centos-three-reasons-to-consider-oracle-linux
>>-
>>
>>Need a stable, RHEL compatible alternative to CentOS?
>>
>>- https://www.oracle.com/linux/
>>
>>
>> Another option if you're using cPanel & WHM is to most likely use them as
>> a good guide:-
>>
>>- cPanel Support For CentOS 8 And More
>>- https://blog.cpanel.com/centos-8-end-of-life-announcement/
>>
>>
>> And, if you're coming from the old Cobalt Networks RaQ server era days
>> and/or BlueOnyx, they have a good blog, news & comments.  Probably their
>> posture may be the best position to take when looking and/or want to
>> "marry" with a particular distro which had various roadmaps during their
>> history.
>>
>>-
>>
>>BlueOnyx has been available on CentOS since CentOS 5, but as the
>>CentOS project never was without issues and unpredictability. Therefore
>>we've never been fully "married" to it. It's always been more of a matter
>>of convenience than one of choice. We even departed briefly from CentOS
>>during the CentOS 6 days and favored Scientific Linux 6 instead. Since 
>> then
>>we kept our eyes and ears open for alternatives and also contemplated
>>contingencies.
>>
>>
>>- You are here: Welcome to BlueOnyx» News
>>CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream
>>-
>>   
>> https://www.blueonyx.it/news/280/54/CentOS-Project-shifts-focus-to-CentOS-Stream/d,Simplex%20News%20Detail
>>
>> Based on BlueOnyx website news, they have indicated the original founder
>> of CentOS is considering a possible return:-
>>
>> And like mentioned above: We're not the only ones whom RedHat pulled the
>> rug out from under our feet.
>>
>> In fact Gregory Kurtzer (co-founder of CentOS) had this to say
>> <https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/#comment-183642>
>> :
>>
>> I am considering creating another rebuild of RHEL and may even be able to
>> hire some people for this effort. If you are interested in helping, please
>> join the HPCng slack (link on the website hpcng.org).
>>
>> Greg (original founder of CentOS)
>>
>>
>> If you've installed and use cnMaestro and Cambium's software on CentOS,
>> then the impact may even be more on your operations.  I am guessing
>> Cambium's cnMaestro may drop support for CentOS eventually.
>>
>>
>> Lincoln
>>
>>
>> On 12/12/2020 11:39 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>
>> Mostly. IBM charges quite a bit for it, but they're big blue. Not sure
>> what they're getting out of their multi-billion dollar purchase, but we
>> would have to sit in their board room to understand their thinking. I
>> wouldn't be surprised to see that they are saving money by getting all
>> those community developers do the work for next to nothing. Sure cuts down
>> on the expenses in the development department.
>>
>> The only real issue is which version of linux you want hook your wagon
>> to. I used Centos for quite a long time; mainly because it was
>> "enterprise". Then it go too "enterprise" for my taste, and have since
>> switched to Debian. It's the same, but different. Same enough for my taste,
>> and down-homey enough for the small operation we are.
>>
>> NBD.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 12/12/2020 8:14 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>
>> Linux... linux is free... right?
>>
>> *From:* Ken Hohhof
>> *Sent:* Saturday, December 12, 2020 8:39 AM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
>>
>>
>> I guess it would have been naïve of us all to expect no change when IBM
>> acquired RedHat.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF   *On
>> Behalf Of *Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Friday, December 11, 2020 11:58 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
>>
>>
>>
>> Holy shit, I just took a cursory look at redhat pricing. Starts at 350 a
>> year per server, physical server only, and not intended for production use.
>> 2500 a year for the data center if I read it right
>>
>>
>>
>> I ru

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-13 Thread Lincs Chel

and also contemplated contingencies.

* You are here: Welcome to BlueOnyx» News
CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream
o
https://www.blueonyx.it/news/280/54/CentOS-Project-shifts-focus-to-CentOS-Stream/d,Simplex%20News%20Detail

Based on BlueOnyx website news, they have indicated the original
founder of CentOS is considering a possible return:-

And like mentioned above: We're not the only ones whom RedHat
pulled the rug out from under our feet.

In fact Gregory Kurtzer (co-founder of CentOS) had this to
say

<https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/#comment-183642>:

I am considering creating another rebuild of RHEL and may
even be able to hire some people for this effort. If you
are interested in helping, please join the HPCng slack
(link on the website hpcng.org <http://hpcng.org>).

Greg (original founder of CentOS)

If you've installed and use cnMaestro and Cambium's software on
CentOS, then the impact may even be more on your operations. I am
guessing Cambium's cnMaestro may drop support for CentOS eventually.

Lincoln

On 12/12/2020 11:39 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

The only real issue is which version of linux you want hook your
wagon to. I used Centos for quite a long time; mainly because it
was "enterprise". Then it go too "enterprise" for my taste, and
have since switched to Debian. It's the same, but different. Same
enough for my taste, and down-homey enough for the small
operation we are.

NBD.

On 12/12/2020 8:14 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Linux... linux is free... right?
*From:* Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Saturday, December 12, 2020 8:39 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

I guess it would have been naïve of us all to expect no change
when IBM acquired RedHat.

*From:* AF
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Friday, December 11, 2020 11:58 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

Holy shit, I just took a cursory look at redhat pricing. Starts
at 350 a year per server, physical server only, and not intended
for production use. 2500 a year for the data center if I read it
right

I run webmin to manage package updates and BIND. If I'm reading
correctly ubuntu isnt terrible, just less security patched since
it's all opensource and not subsidized by a big dog like red
hat. Probably doable, but no yum.

Has something like this happenned with centos historically? I
assume the linux community will bring about a comparable
solution or resolution.

This just stinks, I had my centos process down.

Is this end of life like a microst end of life where they just
keep patching and saying they mean it this time for years?

On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 11:28 PM Ken Hohhof wrote:

Supposedly there will be CentOS Stream? Kind of like RHEL
beta instead of RHEL day old bread. I guess their answer
would be if you are using it in a production environment you
could always pay for RHEL. Or there’s Fedora. I believe
Preseem runs on Fedora.

*From:* AF *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Friday, December 11, 2020 10:19 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

Debian is like Ubuntu ,only better. ;-)

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>

<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

*From: *"Steve Jones"

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-12 Thread Ken Hohhof

Response part 2 (someone else had posted about Rocky Linux):

 

> FWIW, I suspect there will be a lot of movement over the coming months 

> with relation to this, as an example ROCKY LINUX which someone you may 

> have heard of... Gregory Kurtzer has announced he would create (he was 

> one of the co-founders of CentOS).

 

Yes, I've been following the Slack channels of Rocky Linux from day one and 
also offered to chip in some help. But after just a few hours or so the various 
Slack channels were already bustling with hundreds of people doing different 
things and kicking cans down the curbs in parallel that it was just amazing to 
watch. There are some (recent) former CentOS and Fedora people involved right 
off the bat and they know their tools and trade inside out.

 

> So I would not get too bogged down on this topic for now, let the dust 

> settle and we will probably see a better picture.

 

Indeed. I'm not worried either. Cloud Linux also announced that they're 
starting a 1:1 community driven port of RHEL8 as CentOS 8 replacement and will 
offer it free of charge. Like their commercial Cloud Linux it will have 
(optional) support and some other (optional) add-ons for those that want or 
need this and are willing to pay for those gimmicks. They say they might have 
something to show in the first quarter of 2021.

 

The Rocky Linux guys are also targeting Q1 2021 or shortly thereafter.

 

And there is (if hell freezes over) the option to pick Oracle Linux.

 

That's three alternatives so far and they are perhaps not the only ones we'll 
see.

 

With that in mind I'd say we can be optimistic and can choose and pick whatever 
suits us best. When the dust has settled the BlueOnyx 5210R YUM repository will 
receive a small update that switches 5210R to the OS repository that we settle 
on and I'll also start publishing ISO's that directly install 5210R with the 
new OS of choice.

 

Even then you're not married to it. If we pick Cloud Linux and you prefer Rocky 
Linux instead (or vice versa) all you need to do is to change one RPM that 
contains the OS related repository bindings.

 

Sure, some bystanders (not here, but elsewhere) have mentioned their fears that 
RedHat might eventually pull the rug entirely and no longer publishes the 
sources of RHEL8 in a reproducible manner that allows repackaging after 
debranding.

 

However: The way Open Source works and the way licensing of the components in 
RHEL8 works they can't do that. Even if the suits at IBM perform rain dance and 
a goat sacrifice or throw tantrums. The pushback from the industry would also 
be pretty spectacular and amusing to see.

 

Some even said: "What if IBM decides RedHat is no longer commercially viable 
and make it go away?" Uhm ... that's even less likely. The US Air Force has 
awarded RedHat a fat contract to keep the ancient OS in the F-22's alive. And 
who else but RedHat knows best how to keep deprecated software viable even long 
after its expiry date? That contract alone will keep the cogs at RedHat greased 
enough to keep even the suits at Incompatible Business Machines happy.

 

Lastly: The speed at which Rocky Linux got kickstarted is an indication that 
both the industry *and* the community are ready to defend our niche with tooths 
and nails and that highly professional help is readily available to pour 
heartblood and efforts into keeping the status quo.

 

In the end: *** 'tis but a scratch *** \o/

 

Like in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhX_vGRx3WM

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Lincs Chel
Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2020 9:20 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

 

Hi;

I think another option to consider would be Oracle Linux.  Consider the 
following from their blog, news and website:-

*   If you are reading this blog, you are probably a CentOS user and are in 
the position where you need to look at alternatives going forward. Switching to 
Oracle Linux is easy.

*   
https://blogs.oracle.com/linux/need-a-stable%2c-rhel-compatible-alternative-to-centos-three-reasons-to-consider-oracle-linux

*   Need a stable, RHEL compatible alternative to CentOS? 

*   https://www.oracle.com/linux/ 

 

Another option if you're using cPanel & WHM is to most likely use them as a 
good guide:-

*   cPanel Support For CentOS 8 And More

*   https://blog.cpanel.com/centos-8-end-of-life-announcement/ 

 

And, if you're coming from the old Cobalt Networks RaQ server era days and/or 
BlueOnyx, they have a good blog, news & comments.  Probably their posture may 
be the best position to take when looking and/or want to "marry" with a 
particular distro which had various roadmaps during their history.

*   BlueOnyx has been available on CentOS since CentOS 5, but as the CentOS 
project never was without issues and unpredictability. Therefore we've never 
been fully "married" to it. It

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-12 Thread Ken Hohhof

Response part 1 from the BlueOnyx developer:

 

Oracle Linux is basically a parallel project of CentOS. Oracle also fetches the 
sources of RHEL, rebrands it and publishes it as Oracle Linux. They do offer 
some extras for it that go beyond what CentOS does, but for all intends and 
purposes anything compiled on RHEL8 or CentOS 8 will run on the latest Oracle 
Linux as well. You can easily turn a CentOS 8 into an Oracle Linux by switching 
the repository files.

 

But like most I despise Oracle as they're scavengers and patent trolls.

So I'm neither advocating nor considering Oracle Linux as a replacement for 
CentOS unless it's the last and only hope for continuity.

 

And that it is not.

 

When RedHat bought CentOS outright this didn't really bode well. When the suits 
at IBM bought RedHat it didn't take much premonition to deduct that this 
wouldn't end well for our side of the turf. Eventually the beancounters take 
stock at what they have and when you look at RHEL, CentOS and Fedora and what 
they offer, then possession of CentOS as is doesn't make any business sense.

 

Why? They offer for free what RedHat charges and arm and a leg for. Same wine 
in different bottles. Which economically isn't really clever.

Taking that away or turning it into something else is the logical choice that 
any beancounter would come to. Surely the "freeloaders" that really depend on 
what CentOS offers would then pull out their wallets and buy RedHat 
subscriptions, right?

 

Yeah? Really? Hell no.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Lincs Chel
Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2020 9:20 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

 

Hi;

I think another option to consider would be Oracle Linux.  Consider the 
following from their blog, news and website:-

*   If you are reading this blog, you are probably a CentOS user and are in 
the position where you need to look at alternatives going forward. Switching to 
Oracle Linux is easy.

*   
https://blogs.oracle.com/linux/need-a-stable%2c-rhel-compatible-alternative-to-centos-three-reasons-to-consider-oracle-linux

*   Need a stable, RHEL compatible alternative to CentOS? 

*   https://www.oracle.com/linux/ 

 

Another option if you're using cPanel & WHM is to most likely use them as a 
good guide:-

*   cPanel Support For CentOS 8 And More

*   https://blog.cpanel.com/centos-8-end-of-life-announcement/ 

 

And, if you're coming from the old Cobalt Networks RaQ server era days and/or 
BlueOnyx, they have a good blog, news & comments.  Probably their posture may 
be the best position to take when looking and/or want to "marry" with a 
particular distro which had various roadmaps during their history.

*   BlueOnyx has been available on CentOS since CentOS 5, but as the CentOS 
project never was without issues and unpredictability. Therefore we've never 
been fully "married" to it. It's always been more of a matter of convenience 
than one of choice. We even departed briefly from CentOS during the CentOS 6 
days and favored Scientific Linux 6 instead. Since then we kept our eyes and 
ears open for alternatives and also contemplated contingencies.

 

*   You are here: Welcome to BlueOnyx» News
CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream 

*   
https://www.blueonyx.it/news/280/54/CentOS-Project-shifts-focus-to-CentOS-Stream/d,Simplex%20News%20Detail
 

Based on BlueOnyx website news, they have indicated the original founder of 
CentOS is considering a possible return:-

And like mentioned above: We're not the only ones whom RedHat pulled the rug 
out from under our feet.

In fact Gregory Kurtzer (co-founder of CentOS) had this to say 
<https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/#comment-183642> :

I am considering creating another rebuild of RHEL and may even be able to hire 
some people for this effort. If you are interested in helping, please join the 
HPCng slack (link on the website hpcng.org).

Greg (original founder of CentOS)

 

If you've installed and use cnMaestro and Cambium's software on CentOS, then 
the impact may even be more on your operations.  I am guessing Cambium's 
cnMaestro may drop support for CentOS eventually.

 

Lincoln

 

On 12/12/2020 11:39 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

Mostly. IBM charges quite a bit for it, but they're big blue. Not sure what 
they're getting out of their multi-billion dollar purchase, but we would have 
to sit in their board room to understand their thinking. I wouldn't be 
surprised to see that they are saving money by getting all those community 
developers do the work for next to nothing. Sure cuts down on the expenses in 
the development department.

The only real issue is which version of linux you want hook your wagon to. I 
used Centos for quite a long time; mainly because it was "enterprise". Then it 
go too "enterprise" for my taste, and have since switched to Debian. It's the 
same

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-12 Thread Josh Baird

Sorry, but nobody in their right mind runs Oracle Linux unless you're using
Oracle software and appliances that require you to run OL for support.

On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 10:22 PM Lincs Chel  wrote:

> Hi;
>
> I think another option to consider would be Oracle Linux.  Consider the
> following from their blog, news and website:-
>
>-
>
>If you are reading this blog, you are probably a CentOS user and are
>in the position where you need to look at alternatives going forward.
>Switching to Oracle Linux is easy.
>
>-
>   
> https://blogs.oracle.com/linux/need-a-stable%2c-rhel-compatible-alternative-to-centos-three-reasons-to-consider-oracle-linux
>-
>
>Need a stable, RHEL compatible alternative to CentOS?
>
>- https://www.oracle.com/linux/
>
>
> Another option if you're using cPanel & WHM is to most likely use them as
> a good guide:-
>
>- cPanel Support For CentOS 8 And More
>- https://blog.cpanel.com/centos-8-end-of-life-announcement/
>
>
> And, if you're coming from the old Cobalt Networks RaQ server era days
> and/or BlueOnyx, they have a good blog, news & comments.  Probably their
> posture may be the best position to take when looking and/or want to
> "marry" with a particular distro which had various roadmaps during their
> history.
>
>-
>
>BlueOnyx has been available on CentOS since CentOS 5, but as the
>CentOS project never was without issues and unpredictability. Therefore
>we've never been fully "married" to it. It's always been more of a matter
>of convenience than one of choice. We even departed briefly from CentOS
>during the CentOS 6 days and favored Scientific Linux 6 instead. Since then
>we kept our eyes and ears open for alternatives and also contemplated
>contingencies.
>
>
>- You are here: Welcome to BlueOnyx» News
>CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream
>-
>   
> https://www.blueonyx.it/news/280/54/CentOS-Project-shifts-focus-to-CentOS-Stream/d,Simplex%20News%20Detail
>
> Based on BlueOnyx website news, they have indicated the original founder
> of CentOS is considering a possible return:-
>
> And like mentioned above: We're not the only ones whom RedHat pulled the
> rug out from under our feet.
>
> In fact Gregory Kurtzer (co-founder of CentOS) had this to say
> <https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/#comment-183642>:
>
> I am considering creating another rebuild of RHEL and may even be able to
> hire some people for this effort. If you are interested in helping, please
> join the HPCng slack (link on the website hpcng.org).
>
> Greg (original founder of CentOS)
>
>
> If you've installed and use cnMaestro and Cambium's software on CentOS,
> then the impact may even be more on your operations.  I am guessing
> Cambium's cnMaestro may drop support for CentOS eventually.
>
>
> Lincoln
>
>
> On 12/12/2020 11:39 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
> Mostly. IBM charges quite a bit for it, but they're big blue. Not sure
> what they're getting out of their multi-billion dollar purchase, but we
> would have to sit in their board room to understand their thinking. I
> wouldn't be surprised to see that they are saving money by getting all
> those community developers do the work for next to nothing. Sure cuts down
> on the expenses in the development department.
>
> The only real issue is which version of linux you want hook your wagon to.
> I used Centos for quite a long time; mainly because it was "enterprise".
> Then it go too "enterprise" for my taste, and have since switched to
> Debian. It's the same, but different. Same enough for my taste, and
> down-homey enough for the small operation we are.
>
> NBD.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 12/12/2020 8:14 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> Linux... linux is free... right?
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 12, 2020 8:39 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
>
>
> I guess it would have been naïve of us all to expect no change when IBM
> acquired RedHat.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Friday, December 11, 2020 11:58 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
>
>
>
> Holy shit, I just took a cursory look at redhat pricing. Starts at 350 a
> year per server, physical server only, and not intended for production use.
> 2500 a year for the data center if I read it right
>
>
>
> I run webmin to manage package updates and BIND. If I'm reading correctly
> ubuntu isnt terrible, just less s

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-12 Thread Steve Jones

Was this as abrupt as it feels or did I drop the ball somewhere and miss
something telling me this was coming. I'm on zero linux lists, cause I know
little of linux

On Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 9:55 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Well, that blog post seems very persuasive.  Doesn’t mean it’s accurate.
> Why have I never heard of Oracle Linux?  I’m going to assume this is in no
> way an outgrowth of Solaris.
>
>
>
> My perhaps uninformed opinion of Oracle is negative, based on my opinion
> that Larry Ellison is a self-important rich dickhead, and that Oracle buys
> companies to kill them.  Not sure that’s entirely accurate, or relevant to
> evaluating Oracle Linux.
>
>
>
> I am on the mailing list for BlueOnyx which is the successor to the old
> Sun Cobalt web hosting appliances and is built on CentOS.  Michael Stauber
> the main developer said he has a side project to develop a Debian based
> version which has made little progress because moving his development
> environment from spitting out RPMs to DEBs turned out to be a monumental
> undertaking.  Maybe I’ll ask about Oracle Linux on the list.  People there
> will know tons more than me, and are often not shy about stating opinions.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 12, 2020 9:26 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
>
>
>
> I'm too old for this shit
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 9:22 PM Lincs Chel  wrote:
>
> Hi;
>
> I think another option to consider would be Oracle Linux.  Consider the
> following from their blog, news and website:-
>
>
>- If you are reading this blog, you are probably a CentOS user and are
>in the position where you need to look at alternatives going forward.
>Switching to Oracle Linux is easy.
>
>
>-
>   
> https://blogs.oracle.com/linux/need-a-stable%2c-rhel-compatible-alternative-to-centos-three-reasons-to-consider-oracle-linux
>
>
>- Need a stable, RHEL compatible alternative to CentOS?
>
>
>- https://www.oracle.com/linux/
>
>
>
> Another option if you're using cPanel & WHM is to most likely use them as
> a good guide:-
>
>- cPanel Support For CentOS 8 And More
>
>
>- https://blog.cpanel.com/centos-8-end-of-life-announcement/
>
>
>
> And, if you're coming from the old Cobalt Networks RaQ server era days
> and/or BlueOnyx, they have a good blog, news & comments.  Probably their
> posture may be the best position to take when looking and/or want to
> "marry" with a particular distro which had various roadmaps during their
> history.
>
>
>- BlueOnyx has been available on CentOS since CentOS 5, but as the
>CentOS project never was without issues and unpredictability. Therefore
>we've never been fully "married" to it. It's always been more of a matter
>of convenience than one of choice. We even departed briefly from CentOS
>during the CentOS 6 days and favored Scientific Linux 6 instead. Since then
>we kept our eyes and ears open for alternatives and also contemplated
>contingencies.
>
>
>
>- You are here: Welcome to BlueOnyx» News
>CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream
>
>
>-
>   
> https://www.blueonyx.it/news/280/54/CentOS-Project-shifts-focus-to-CentOS-Stream/d,Simplex%20News%20Detail
>
> Based on BlueOnyx website news, they have indicated the original founder
> of CentOS is considering a possible return:-
>
> And like mentioned above: We're not the only ones whom RedHat pulled the
> rug out from under our feet.
>
> In fact Gregory Kurtzer (co-founder of CentOS) had this to say
> <https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/#comment-183642>:
>
> I am considering creating another rebuild of RHEL and may even be able to
> hire some people for this effort. If you are interested in helping, please
> join the HPCng slack (link on the website hpcng.org).
>
> Greg (original founder of CentOS)
>
>
>
> If you've installed and use cnMaestro and Cambium's software on CentOS,
> then the impact may even be more on your operations.  I am guessing
> Cambium's cnMaestro may drop support for CentOS eventually.
>
>
>
> Lincoln
>
>
>
> On 12/12/2020 11:39 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
> Mostly. IBM charges quite a bit for it, but they're big blue. Not sure
> what they're getting out of their multi-billion dollar purchase, but we
> would have to sit in their board room to understand their thinking. I
> wouldn't be surprised to see that they are saving money by getting all
> those community developers do the work for next to nothing. Sure cuts down
> on t

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-12 Thread Ken Hohhof

Well, that blog post seems very persuasive.  Doesn’t mean it’s accurate.  Why 
have I never heard of Oracle Linux?  I’m going to assume this is in no way an 
outgrowth of Solaris.

 

My perhaps uninformed opinion of Oracle is negative, based on my opinion that 
Larry Ellison is a self-important rich dickhead, and that Oracle buys companies 
to kill them.  Not sure that’s entirely accurate, or relevant to evaluating 
Oracle Linux.

 

I am on the mailing list for BlueOnyx which is the successor to the old Sun 
Cobalt web hosting appliances and is built on CentOS.  Michael Stauber the main 
developer said he has a side project to develop a Debian based version which 
has made little progress because moving his development environment from 
spitting out RPMs to DEBs turned out to be a monumental undertaking.  Maybe 
I’ll ask about Oracle Linux on the list.  People there will know tons more than 
me, and are often not shy about stating opinions.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2020 9:26 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

 

I'm too old for this shit

 

On Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 9:22 PM Lincs Chel mailto:lhan...@enc-tech.com> > wrote:

Hi;

I think another option to consider would be Oracle Linux.  Consider the 
following from their blog, news and website:-

*   If you are reading this blog, you are probably a CentOS user and are in 
the position where you need to look at alternatives going forward. Switching to 
Oracle Linux is easy.

*   
https://blogs.oracle.com/linux/need-a-stable%2c-rhel-compatible-alternative-to-centos-three-reasons-to-consider-oracle-linux

*   Need a stable, RHEL compatible alternative to CentOS? 

*   https://www.oracle.com/linux/ 

 

Another option if you're using cPanel & WHM is to most likely use them as a 
good guide:-

*   cPanel Support For CentOS 8 And More

*   https://blog.cpanel.com/centos-8-end-of-life-announcement/ 

 

And, if you're coming from the old Cobalt Networks RaQ server era days and/or 
BlueOnyx, they have a good blog, news & comments.  Probably their posture may 
be the best position to take when looking and/or want to "marry" with a 
particular distro which had various roadmaps during their history.

*   BlueOnyx has been available on CentOS since CentOS 5, but as the CentOS 
project never was without issues and unpredictability. Therefore we've never 
been fully "married" to it. It's always been more of a matter of convenience 
than one of choice. We even departed briefly from CentOS during the CentOS 6 
days and favored Scientific Linux 6 instead. Since then we kept our eyes and 
ears open for alternatives and also contemplated contingencies.

 

*   You are here: Welcome to BlueOnyx» News
CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream 

*   
https://www.blueonyx.it/news/280/54/CentOS-Project-shifts-focus-to-CentOS-Stream/d,Simplex%20News%20Detail
 

Based on BlueOnyx website news, they have indicated the original founder of 
CentOS is considering a possible return:-

And like mentioned above: We're not the only ones whom RedHat pulled the rug 
out from under our feet.

In fact Gregory Kurtzer (co-founder of CentOS) had this to say 
<https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/#comment-183642> :

I am considering creating another rebuild of RHEL and may even be able to hire 
some people for this effort. If you are interested in helping, please join the 
HPCng slack (link on the website hpcng.org <http://hpcng.org> ).

Greg (original founder of CentOS)

 

If you've installed and use cnMaestro and Cambium's software on CentOS, then 
the impact may even be more on your operations.  I am guessing Cambium's 
cnMaestro may drop support for CentOS eventually.

 

Lincoln

 

On 12/12/2020 11:39 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

Mostly. IBM charges quite a bit for it, but they're big blue. Not sure what 
they're getting out of their multi-billion dollar purchase, but we would have 
to sit in their board room to understand their thinking. I wouldn't be 
surprised to see that they are saving money by getting all those community 
developers do the work for next to nothing. Sure cuts down on the expenses in 
the development department.

The only real issue is which version of linux you want hook your wagon to. I 
used Centos for quite a long time; mainly because it was "enterprise". Then it 
go too "enterprise" for my taste, and have since switched to Debian. It's the 
same, but different. Same enough for my taste, and down-homey enough for the 
small operation we are. 

NBD.

 

bp


On 12/12/2020 8:14 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Linux... linux is free... right?

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2020 8:39 AM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

 

I guess it would have been naïve of us all to expect no change when I

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-12 Thread Steve Jones

I'm too old for this shit

On Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 9:22 PM Lincs Chel  wrote:

> Hi;
>
> I think another option to consider would be Oracle Linux.  Consider the
> following from their blog, news and website:-
>
>-
>
>If you are reading this blog, you are probably a CentOS user and are
>in the position where you need to look at alternatives going forward.
>Switching to Oracle Linux is easy.
>
>-
>   
> https://blogs.oracle.com/linux/need-a-stable%2c-rhel-compatible-alternative-to-centos-three-reasons-to-consider-oracle-linux
>-
>
>Need a stable, RHEL compatible alternative to CentOS?
>
>- https://www.oracle.com/linux/
>
>
> Another option if you're using cPanel & WHM is to most likely use them as
> a good guide:-
>
>- cPanel Support For CentOS 8 And More
>- https://blog.cpanel.com/centos-8-end-of-life-announcement/
>
>
> And, if you're coming from the old Cobalt Networks RaQ server era days
> and/or BlueOnyx, they have a good blog, news & comments.  Probably their
> posture may be the best position to take when looking and/or want to
> "marry" with a particular distro which had various roadmaps during their
> history.
>
>-
>
>BlueOnyx has been available on CentOS since CentOS 5, but as the
>CentOS project never was without issues and unpredictability. Therefore
>we've never been fully "married" to it. It's always been more of a matter
>of convenience than one of choice. We even departed briefly from CentOS
>during the CentOS 6 days and favored Scientific Linux 6 instead. Since then
>we kept our eyes and ears open for alternatives and also contemplated
>contingencies.
>
>
>- You are here: Welcome to BlueOnyx» News
>CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream
>-
>   
> https://www.blueonyx.it/news/280/54/CentOS-Project-shifts-focus-to-CentOS-Stream/d,Simplex%20News%20Detail
>
> Based on BlueOnyx website news, they have indicated the original founder
> of CentOS is considering a possible return:-
>
> And like mentioned above: We're not the only ones whom RedHat pulled the
> rug out from under our feet.
>
> In fact Gregory Kurtzer (co-founder of CentOS) had this to say
> <https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/#comment-183642>:
>
> I am considering creating another rebuild of RHEL and may even be able to
> hire some people for this effort. If you are interested in helping, please
> join the HPCng slack (link on the website hpcng.org).
>
> Greg (original founder of CentOS)
>
>
> If you've installed and use cnMaestro and Cambium's software on CentOS,
> then the impact may even be more on your operations.  I am guessing
> Cambium's cnMaestro may drop support for CentOS eventually.
>
>
> Lincoln
>
>
> On 12/12/2020 11:39 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
> Mostly. IBM charges quite a bit for it, but they're big blue. Not sure
> what they're getting out of their multi-billion dollar purchase, but we
> would have to sit in their board room to understand their thinking. I
> wouldn't be surprised to see that they are saving money by getting all
> those community developers do the work for next to nothing. Sure cuts down
> on the expenses in the development department.
>
> The only real issue is which version of linux you want hook your wagon to.
> I used Centos for quite a long time; mainly because it was "enterprise".
> Then it go too "enterprise" for my taste, and have since switched to
> Debian. It's the same, but different. Same enough for my taste, and
> down-homey enough for the small operation we are.
>
> NBD.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 12/12/2020 8:14 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> Linux... linux is free... right?
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 12, 2020 8:39 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
>
>
> I guess it would have been naïve of us all to expect no change when IBM
> acquired RedHat.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Friday, December 11, 2020 11:58 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
>
>
>
> Holy shit, I just took a cursory look at redhat pricing. Starts at 350 a
> year per server, physical server only, and not intended for production use.
> 2500 a year for the data center if I read it right
>
>
>
> I run webmin to manage package updates and BIND. If I'm reading correctly
> ubuntu isnt terrible, just less security patched since it's all opensource
> and not subsidized by a big dog like red hat. Probably doable, but no yum.
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-12 Thread Lincs Chel

Hi;

I think another option to consider would be Oracle Linux. Consider the
following from their blog, news and website:-

If you are reading this blog, you are probably a CentOS user and
are in the position where you need to look at alternatives going
forward. Switching to Oracle Linux is easy.

o
https://blogs.oracle.com/linux/need-a-stable%2c-rhel-compatible-alternative-to-centos-three-reasons-to-consider-oracle-linux
*
Need a stable, RHEL compatible alternative to CentOS?

o https://www.oracle.com/linux/

Another option if you're using cPanel & WHM is to most likely use them
as a good guide:-

* cPanel Support For CentOS 8 And More
o https://blog.cpanel.com/centos-8-end-of-life-announcement/

And, if you're coming from the old Cobalt Networks RaQ server era days
and/or BlueOnyx, they have a good blog, news & comments. Probably their
posture may be the best position to take when looking and/or want to
"marry" with a particular distro which had various roadmaps during their
history.

BlueOnyx has been available on CentOS since CentOS 5, but as the
CentOS project never was without issues and unpredictability.
Therefore we've never been fully "married" to it. It's always been
more of a matter of convenience than one of choice. We even
departed briefly from CentOS during the CentOS 6 days and favored
Scientific Linux 6 instead. Since then we kept our eyes and ears
open for alternatives and also contemplated contingencies.

* You are here: Welcome to BlueOnyx» News
CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream
o
https://www.blueonyx.it/news/280/54/CentOS-Project-shifts-focus-to-CentOS-Stream/d,Simplex%20News%20Detail

Based on BlueOnyx website news, they have indicated the original founder
of CentOS is considering a possible return:-

And like mentioned above: We're not the only ones whom RedHat
pulled the rug out from under our feet.

In fact Gregory Kurtzer (co-founder of CentOS) had this to say
<https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/#comment-183642>:

I am considering creating another rebuild of RHEL and may even
be able to hire some people for this effort. If you are
interested in helping, please join the HPCng slack (link on
the website hpcng.org).

Greg (original founder of CentOS)

If you've installed and use cnMaestro and Cambium's software on CentOS,
then the impact may even be more on your operations. I am guessing
Cambium's cnMaestro may drop support for CentOS eventually.

Lincoln

On 12/12/2020 11:39 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

The only real issue is which version of linux you want hook your wagon
to. I used Centos for quite a long time; mainly because it was
"enterprise". Then it go too "enterprise" for my taste, and have since
switched to Debian. It's the same, but different. Same enough for my
taste, and down-homey enough for the small operation we are.

NBD.

On 12/12/2020 8:14 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Linux... linux is free... right?
*From:* Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Saturday, December 12, 2020 8:39 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

I guess it would have been naïve of us all to expect no change when
IBM acquired RedHat.

*From:* AF *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Friday, December 11, 2020 11:58 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

Holy shit, I just took a cursory look at redhat pricing. Starts at
350 a year per server, physical server only, and not intended for
production use. 2500 a year for the data center if I read it right

I run webmin to manage package updates and BIND. If I'm reading
correctly ubuntu isnt terrible, just less security patched since it's
all opensource and not subsidized by a big dog like red hat. Probably
doable, but no yum.

Has something like this happenned with centos historically? I assume
the linux community will bring about a comparable solution or
resolution.

This just stinks, I had my centos process down.

Is this end of life like a microst end of life where they just keep
patching and saying they mean it this time for years?

On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 11:28 PM Ken Hohhof wrote:

Supposedly there will be CentOS Stream? Kind of like RHEL beta
instead of RHEL day old bread. I guess their answer would be if
you are using it in a production environment you could always pay
for RHEL. Or there’s

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-12 Thread Bill Prince


  
  
Mostly. IBM charges quite a bit for it, but they're big blue. Not
  sure what they're getting out of their multi-billion dollar
  purchase, but we would have to sit in their board room to
  understand their thinking. I wouldn't be surprised to see that
  they are saving money by getting all those community developers do
  the work for next to nothing. Sure cuts down on the expenses in
  the development department.
The only real issue is which version of linux you want hook your
  wagon to. I used Centos for quite a long time; mainly because it
  was "enterprise". Then it go too "enterprise" for my taste, and
  have since switched to Debian. It's the same, but different. Same
  enough for my taste, and down-homey enough for the small operation
  we are. 

NBD.


bp

On 12/12/2020 8:14 AM, Chuck McCown via
  AF wrote:


  
  
  
  -- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-12 Thread Ken Hohhof

“Run, run, you’re free!”

- Charlie Harper, making chili while drunk, to runaway onion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCFmZCkCVp8

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2020 10:15 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

Linux... linux is free... right?

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2020 8:39 AM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

I guess it would have been naïve of us all to expect no change when IBM 
acquired RedHat.

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Steve Jones
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2020 11:58 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

Holy shit, I just took a cursory look at redhat pricing. Starts at 350 a year 
per server, physical server only, and not intended for production use. 2500 a 
year for the data center if I read it right

I run webmin to manage package updates and BIND. If I'm reading correctly 
ubuntu isnt terrible, just less security patched since it's all opensource and 
not subsidized by a big dog like red hat. Probably doable, but no yum.

Has something like this happenned with centos historically? I assume the linux 
community will bring about a comparable solution or resolution. 

This just stinks, I had my centos process down.

Is this end of life like a microst end of life where they just keep patching 
and saying they mean it this time for years?

On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 11:28 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

Supposedly there will be CentOS Stream?  Kind of like RHEL beta instead of RHEL 
day old bread.  I guess their answer would be if you are using it in a 
production environment you could always pay for RHEL.  Or there’s Fedora.  I 
believe Preseem runs on Fedora.

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2020 10:19 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

Debian is like Ubuntu ,only better.  ;-)

-
Mike Hammett
 <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>  
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 
 <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>  
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> 
 <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP
 <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>  
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> 

  _  

From: "Steve Jones" mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2020 5:12:13 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

I've been a peasant my whole life, is there any other way?

I think powercode is ubuntu now, so I'll probably go that route, are there 
major differences to it?

I dont like saying ubuntu, too much like ubnt

On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 3:47 PM Seth Mattinen mailto:se...@rollernet.us> > wrote:

On 12/11/20 13:21, Steve Jones wrote:
> Am I reading all this right? Redhat officially killed centos and its 
> tombstoned in 2021?
> 
> Everything I run is centos. It's not like I know centos but I have my 
> resource sets on where to go to resolve anything that pops up.
> 
> Is this just a normal thing in the linux world where something is ended 
> but actually just rebrands and keeps going or is it a legit end of the OS?

It happens. Someone will probably fork it and make up a new distro if 
that hasn't happened already. IMO the main reason to use CentOS was 
because it was rebuilt RHEL.

I gave up on Red Hat about two releases into Fedora Core when it became 
obvious it was just rapidly changing garbage for testing on the peasants 
before bringing fixes into their commercial version.

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Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-12 Thread Chuck McCown via AF

Linux... linux is free... right?

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2020 8:39 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

I guess it would have been naïve of us all to expect no change when IBM 
acquired RedHat.

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2020 11:58 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

Holy shit, I just took a cursory look at redhat pricing. Starts at 350 a year 
per server, physical server only, and not intended for production use. 2500 a 
year for the data center if I read it right

I run webmin to manage package updates and BIND. If I'm reading correctly 
ubuntu isnt terrible, just less security patched since it's all opensource and 
not subsidized by a big dog like red hat. Probably doable, but no yum.

Has something like this happenned with centos historically? I assume the linux 
community will bring about a comparable solution or resolution. 

This just stinks, I had my centos process down.

Is this end of life like a microst end of life where they just keep patching 
and saying they mean it this time for years?

On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 11:28 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  Supposedly there will be CentOS Stream?  Kind of like RHEL beta instead of 
RHEL day old bread.  I guess their answer would be if you are using it in a 
production environment you could always pay for RHEL.  Or there’s Fedora.  I 
believe Preseem runs on Fedora.

  From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
  Sent: Friday, December 11, 2020 10:19 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

  Debian is like Ubuntu ,only better.  ;-)

  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP

--

  From: "Steve Jones" 
  To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
  Sent: Friday, December 11, 2020 5:12:13 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

  I've been a peasant my whole life, is there any other way?

  I think powercode is ubuntu now, so I'll probably go that route, are there 
major differences to it?

  I dont like saying ubuntu, too much like ubnt

  On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 3:47 PM Seth Mattinen  wrote:

On 12/11/20 13:21, Steve Jones wrote:
> Am I reading all this right? Redhat officially killed centos and its 
> tombstoned in 2021?
> 
> Everything I run is centos. It's not like I know centos but I have my 
> resource sets on where to go to resolve anything that pops up.
> 
> Is this just a normal thing in the linux world where something is ended 
> but actually just rebrands and keeps going or is it a legit end of the OS?

It happens. Someone will probably fork it and make up a new distro if 
that hasn't happened already. IMO the main reason to use CentOS was 
because it was rebuilt RHEL.

I gave up on Red Hat about two releases into Fedora Core when it became 
obvious it was just rapidly changing garbage for testing on the peasants 
before bringing fixes into their commercial version.

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Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-12 Thread Ken Hohhof

You’d think Steve of all people would be willing to drink from the firehose.

Centos was kind of the conservative stodgy approach to Linux.  Even RHEL was 
stodgy, and Centos was “downstream” of that.  Now with Stream you can be 
“upstream” of RHEL.  Not sure if we’d be losing the approach that you can build 
a server around RHEL/Centos 8 and keep updating version 8 for a bunch of years 
while 9 and 10 come out.

From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Baird
Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2020 9:44 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

Yeah - leave it up to Big Blue to ruin everything.  

But, really, Steve - just migrate to Stream.  You probably won't even realize 
the difference.

https://twitter.com/carlwgeorge/status/1336901625290625024

On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 10:40 AM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

I guess it would have been naïve of us all to expect no change when IBM 
acquired RedHat.

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Steve Jones
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2020 11:58 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

Holy shit, I just took a cursory look at redhat pricing. Starts at 350 a year 
per server, physical server only, and not intended for production use. 2500 a 
year for the data center if I read it right

I run webmin to manage package updates and BIND. If I'm reading correctly 
ubuntu isnt terrible, just less security patched since it's all opensource and 
not subsidized by a big dog like red hat. Probably doable, but no yum.

Has something like this happenned with centos historically? I assume the linux 
community will bring about a comparable solution or resolution. 

This just stinks, I had my centos process down.

Is this end of life like a microst end of life where they just keep patching 
and saying they mean it this time for years?

On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 11:28 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

Supposedly there will be CentOS Stream?  Kind of like RHEL beta instead of RHEL 
day old bread.  I guess their answer would be if you are using it in a 
production environment you could always pay for RHEL.  Or there’s Fedora.  I 
believe Preseem runs on Fedora.

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2020 10:19 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

Debian is like Ubuntu ,only better.  ;-)

-
Mike Hammett
 <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>  
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 
 <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>  
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> 
 <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP
 <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>  
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> 

  _  

From: "Steve Jones" mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2020 5:12:13 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

I've been a peasant my whole life, is there any other way?

I think powercode is ubuntu now, so I'll probably go that route, are there 
major differences to it?

I dont like saying ubuntu, too much like ubnt

On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 3:47 PM Seth Mattinen mailto:se...@rollernet.us> > wrote:

On 12/11/20 13:21, Steve Jones wrote:
> Am I reading all this right? Redhat officially killed centos and its 
> tombstoned in 2021?
> 
> Everything I run is centos. It's not like I know centos but I have my 
> resource sets on where to go to resolve anything that pops up.
> 
> Is this just a normal thing in the linux world where something is ended 
> but actually just rebrands and keeps going or is it a legit end of the OS?

It happens. Someone will probably fork it and make up a new distro if 
that hasn't happened already. IMO the main reason to use CentOS was 
because it was rebuilt RHEL.

I gave up on Red Hat about two releases into Fedora Core when it became 
obvious it was just rapidly changing garbage for testing on the peasants 
before bringing fixes into their commercial version.

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http

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-12 Thread Josh Baird

Yeah - leave it up to Big Blue to ruin everything.

But, really, Steve - just migrate to Stream.  You probably won't even
realize the difference.

https://twitter.com/carlwgeorge/status/1336901625290625024

On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 10:40 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> I guess it would have been naïve of us all to expect no change when IBM
> acquired RedHat.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Friday, December 11, 2020 11:58 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
>
>
>
> Holy shit, I just took a cursory look at redhat pricing. Starts at 350 a
> year per server, physical server only, and not intended for production use.
> 2500 a year for the data center if I read it right
>
>
>
> I run webmin to manage package updates and BIND. If I'm reading correctly
> ubuntu isnt terrible, just less security patched since it's all opensource
> and not subsidized by a big dog like red hat. Probably doable, but no yum.
>
>
>
> Has something like this happenned with centos historically? I assume the
> linux community will bring about a comparable solution or resolution.
>
>
>
> This just stinks, I had my centos process down.
>
>
>
> Is this end of life like a microst end of life where they just keep
> patching and saying they mean it this time for years?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 11:28 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Supposedly there will be CentOS Stream?  Kind of like RHEL beta instead of
> RHEL day old bread.  I guess their answer would be if you are using it in a
> production environment you could always pay for RHEL.  Or there’s Fedora.
> I believe Preseem runs on Fedora.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Friday, December 11, 2020 10:19 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
>
>
>
> Debian is like Ubuntu ,only better.  ;-)
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
>
> *From: *"Steve Jones" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Friday, December 11, 2020 5:12:13 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
>
> I've been a peasant my whole life, is there any other way?
>
> I think powercode is ubuntu now, so I'll probably go that route, are there
> major differences to it?
>
> I dont like saying ubuntu, too much like ubnt
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 3:47 PM Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>
> On 12/11/20 13:21, Steve Jones wrote:
> > Am I reading all this right? Redhat officially killed centos and its
> > tombstoned in 2021?
> >
> > Everything I run is centos. It's not like I know centos but I have my
> > resource sets on where to go to resolve anything that pops up.
> >
> > Is this just a normal thing in the linux world where something is ended
> > but actually just rebrands and keeps going or is it a legit end of the
> OS?
>
>
> It happens. Someone will probably fork it and make up a new distro if
> that hasn't happened already. IMO the main reason to use CentOS was
> because it was rebuilt RHEL.
>
> I gave up on Red Hat about two releases into Fedora Core when it became
> obvious it was just rapidly changing garbage for testing on the peasants
> before bringing fixes into their commercial version.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-12 Thread Ken Hohhof

I guess it would have been naïve of us all to expect no change when IBM 
acquired RedHat.

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2020 11:58 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

Holy shit, I just took a cursory look at redhat pricing. Starts at 350 a year 
per server, physical server only, and not intended for production use. 2500 a 
year for the data center if I read it right

I run webmin to manage package updates and BIND. If I'm reading correctly 
ubuntu isnt terrible, just less security patched since it's all opensource and 
not subsidized by a big dog like red hat. Probably doable, but no yum.

Has something like this happenned with centos historically? I assume the linux 
community will bring about a comparable solution or resolution. 

This just stinks, I had my centos process down.

Is this end of life like a microst end of life where they just keep patching 
and saying they mean it this time for years?

On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 11:28 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

Supposedly there will be CentOS Stream?  Kind of like RHEL beta instead of RHEL 
day old bread.  I guess their answer would be if you are using it in a 
production environment you could always pay for RHEL.  Or there’s Fedora.  I 
believe Preseem runs on Fedora.

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2020 10:19 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

Debian is like Ubuntu ,only better.  ;-)

-
Mike Hammett
 <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>  
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 
 <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>  
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> 
 <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP
 <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>  
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> 

  _  

From: "Steve Jones" mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2020 5:12:13 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

I've been a peasant my whole life, is there any other way?

I think powercode is ubuntu now, so I'll probably go that route, are there 
major differences to it?

I dont like saying ubuntu, too much like ubnt

On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 3:47 PM Seth Mattinen mailto:se...@rollernet.us> > wrote:

On 12/11/20 13:21, Steve Jones wrote:
> Am I reading all this right? Redhat officially killed centos and its 
> tombstoned in 2021?
> 
> Everything I run is centos. It's not like I know centos but I have my 
> resource sets on where to go to resolve anything that pops up.
> 
> Is this just a normal thing in the linux world where something is ended 
> but actually just rebrands and keeps going or is it a legit end of the OS?

It happens. Someone will probably fork it and make up a new distro if 
that hasn't happened already. IMO the main reason to use CentOS was 
because it was rebuilt RHEL.

I gave up on Red Hat about two releases into Fedora Core when it became 
obvious it was just rapidly changing garbage for testing on the peasants 
before bringing fixes into their commercial version.

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Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-12 Thread Josh Baird

Oh man, VAX/VMS gives me nightmares.

On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 10:30 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> When I got started in the WISP business, another operator convinced me to
> run RADIUS on a DS10L Alphaserver using VMS.  I will admit it never got
> hacked.  No doubt because the target population was so small nobody
> bothered trying.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 12, 2020 9:18 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
>
>
>
> Aren’t most of the exploits for windows 3.1 so old they don’t work any
> more and no one would be checking for them?  Ergo it’s more secure.
>
>
>
> On Dec 12, 2020, at 10:07 AM, Josh Baird  wrote:
>
> 
>
> Ok - you lost me.  We're not talking about Windows 3.1 here.
>
>
>
> You alleged that Debian/Ubuntu was "more secure" than CentOS.  That is
> what I disagree with.
>
>
>
> Obviously, I don't think a Windows 3.1 system is secure.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 9:50 AM Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:
>
> Well that is pretty funny.
>
> My statement is based on Steve's statement. No OS is secure out of the box
> and unmaintained. But by your statement, all OS's are equivalent and the
> admin is the only difference between any OS. So by your logic Windows 3.1,
> Server 2003, BSD, CentOS, Debian, and Ubuntu are all equal in their
> ability to withstand penetration because the OS doesn't matter since the
> admin is all that counts.
>
> OS's do have inherent characteristics that make them to be more or less
> secure.
>
> Of course you should break the shrinkwrap and stick some computer on a
> public IP untouched. But that isn't what I was suggesting or implying.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 8:40 AM Josh Baird  wrote:
>
> "Ubuntu is and has been more secure than CentOS" is not an accurate
> statement.
>
>
>
> A system is only as secure as you make it.  CentOS is perfectly secure
> when operated correctly.  As is any flavor of Debian.
>
>
>
> Put a Debian system in the hands of someone who doesn't know what they are
> doing and it's just as insecure as anything else.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 8:13 AM Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:
>
> Ubuntu is backed by Canonical, is based on Debian, and as for security I
> would say Ubuntu is and has been more secure than CentOS and not as secure
> as Debian.
>
> But to be clear they are better like Jennifer Garner is hotter than
> Jennifer Aniston. Sure, hotter, but you likely would be really happy with
> either one of them.
>
> On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 11:59 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
> Holy shit, I just took a cursory look at redhat pricing. Starts at 350 a
> year per server, physical server only, and not intended for production use.
> 2500 a year for the data center if I read it right
>
>
>
> I run webmin to manage package updates and BIND. If I'm reading correctly
> ubuntu isnt terrible, just less security patched since it's all opensource
> and not subsidized by a big dog like red hat. Probably doable, but no yum.
>
>
>
> Has something like this happenned with centos historically? I assume the
> linux community will bring about a comparable solution or resolution.
>
>
>
> This just stinks, I had my centos process down.
>
>
>
> Is this end of life like a microst end of life where they just keep
> patching and saying they mean it this time for years?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 11:28 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Supposedly there will be CentOS Stream?  Kind of like RHEL beta instead of
> RHEL day old bread.  I guess their answer would be if you are using it in a
> production environment you could always pay for RHEL.  Or there’s Fedora.
> I believe Preseem runs on Fedora.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Friday, December 11, 2020 10:19 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
>
>
>
> Debian is like Ubuntu ,only better.  ;-)
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> &l

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-12 Thread Ken Hohhof

When I got started in the WISP business, another operator convinced me to run 
RADIUS on a DS10L Alphaserver using VMS.  I will admit it never got hacked.  No 
doubt because the target population was so small nobody bothered trying.

From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2020 9:18 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

Aren’t most of the exploits for windows 3.1 so old they don’t work any more and 
no one would be checking for them?  Ergo it’s more secure. 

On Dec 12, 2020, at 10:07 AM, Josh Baird mailto:joshba...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Ok - you lost me.  We're not talking about Windows 3.1 here.  

You alleged that Debian/Ubuntu was "more secure" than CentOS.  That is what I 
disagree with. 

Obviously, I don't think a Windows 3.1 system is secure.

On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 9:50 AM Lewis Bergman mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Well that is pretty funny.

My statement is based on Steve's statement. No OS is secure out of the box and 
unmaintained. But by your statement, all OS's are equivalent and the admin is 
the only difference between any OS. So by your logic Windows 3.1, Server 2003, 
BSD, CentOS, Debian, and Ubuntu are all equal in their ability to withstand 
penetration because the OS doesn't matter since the admin is all that counts.

OS's do have inherent characteristics that make them to be more or less secure.

Of course you should break the shrinkwrap and stick some computer on a public 
IP untouched. But that isn't what I was suggesting or implying.

On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 8:40 AM Josh Baird mailto:joshba...@gmail.com> > wrote:

"Ubuntu is and has been more secure than CentOS" is not an accurate statement.

A system is only as secure as you make it.  CentOS is perfectly secure when 
operated correctly.  As is any flavor of Debian.

Put a Debian system in the hands of someone who doesn't know what they are 
doing and it's just as insecure as anything else.

On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 8:13 AM Lewis Bergman mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Ubuntu is backed by Canonical, is based on Debian, and as for security I would 
say Ubuntu is and has been more secure than CentOS and not as secure as Debian.

But to be clear they are better like Jennifer Garner is hotter than Jennifer 
Aniston. Sure, hotter, but you likely would be really happy with either one of 
them.

On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 11:59 PM Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Holy shit, I just took a cursory look at redhat pricing. Starts at 350 a year 
per server, physical server only, and not intended for production use. 2500 a 
year for the data center if I read it right

I run webmin to manage package updates and BIND. If I'm reading correctly 
ubuntu isnt terrible, just less security patched since it's all opensource and 
not subsidized by a big dog like red hat. Probably doable, but no yum.

Has something like this happenned with centos historically? I assume the linux 
community will bring about a comparable solution or resolution. 

This just stinks, I had my centos process down.

Is this end of life like a microst end of life where they just keep patching 
and saying they mean it this time for years?

On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 11:28 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

Supposedly there will be CentOS Stream?  Kind of like RHEL beta instead of RHEL 
day old bread.  I guess their answer would be if you are using it in a 
production environment you could always pay for RHEL.  Or there’s Fedora.  I 
believe Preseem runs on Fedora.

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2020 10:19 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

Debian is like Ubuntu ,only better.  ;-)

-
Mike Hammett
 <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>  
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 
 <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>  
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> 
 <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP
 <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>  
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> 

  _  

From: "Steve Jones" mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2020 5:12:13 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

I've been a peasant my whole life, is there any other way?

I think powercode is ub

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-12 Thread Matt Hoppes

Aren’t most of the exploits for windows 3.1 so old they don’t work any more and 
no one would be checking for them?  Ergo it’s more secure. 

> On Dec 12, 2020, at 10:07 AM, Josh Baird  wrote:
> 
> 
> Ok - you lost me.  We're not talking about Windows 3.1 here.  
> 
> You alleged that Debian/Ubuntu was "more secure" than CentOS.  That is what I 
> disagree with. 
> 
> Obviously, I don't think a Windows 3.1 system is secure.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 9:50 AM Lewis Bergman  
>> wrote:
>> Well that is pretty funny.
>> My statement is based on Steve's statement. No OS is secure out of the box 
>> and unmaintained. But by your statement, all OS's are equivalent and the 
>> admin is the only difference between any OS. So by your logic Windows 3.1, 
>> Server 2003, BSD, CentOS, Debian, and Ubuntu are all equal in their ability 
>> to withstand penetration because the OS doesn't matter since the admin is 
>> all that counts.
>> OS's do have inherent characteristics that make them to be more or less 
>> secure.
>> Of course you should break the shrinkwrap and stick some computer on a 
>> public IP untouched. But that isn't what I was suggesting or implying.
>> 
>>> On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 8:40 AM Josh Baird  wrote:
>>> "Ubuntu is and has been more secure than CentOS" is not an accurate 
>>> statement.
>>> 
>>> A system is only as secure as you make it.  CentOS is perfectly secure when 
>>> operated correctly.  As is any flavor of Debian.
>>> 
>>> Put a Debian system in the hands of someone who doesn't know what they are 
>>> doing and it's just as insecure as anything else.
>>> 
>>> On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 8:13 AM Lewis Bergman  
>>> wrote:
>>>> Ubuntu is backed by Canonical, is based on Debian, and as for security I 
>>>> would say Ubuntu is and has been more secure than CentOS and not as secure 
>>>> as Debian.
>>>> But to be clear they are better like Jennifer Garner is hotter than 
>>>> Jennifer Aniston. Sure, hotter, but you likely would be really happy with 
>>>> either one of them.
>>>> 
>>>>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 11:59 PM Steve Jones  
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Holy shit, I just took a cursory look at redhat pricing. Starts at 350 a 
>>>>> year per server, physical server only, and not intended for production 
>>>>> use. 2500 a year for the data center if I read it right
>>>>> 
>>>>> I run webmin to manage package updates and BIND. If I'm reading correctly 
>>>>> ubuntu isnt terrible, just less security patched since it's all 
>>>>> opensource and not subsidized by a big dog like red hat. Probably doable, 
>>>>> but no yum.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Has something like this happenned with centos historically? I assume the 
>>>>> linux community will bring about a comparable solution or resolution. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> This just stinks, I had my centos process down.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Is this end of life like a microst end of life where they just keep 
>>>>> patching and saying they mean it this time for years?
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 11:28 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>>>>> Supposedly there will be CentOS Stream?  Kind of like RHEL beta instead 
>>>>>> of RHEL day old bread.  I guess their answer would be if you are using 
>>>>>> it in a production environment you could always pay for RHEL.  Or 
>>>>>> there’s Fedora.  I believe Preseem runs on Fedora.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2020 10:19 PM
>>>>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Debian is like Ubuntu ,only better.  ;-)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -
>>>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The Brothers WISP
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>&g

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-12 Thread Josh Baird

Ok - you lost me.  We're not talking about Windows 3.1 here.

You alleged that Debian/Ubuntu was "more secure" than CentOS.  That is what
I disagree with.

Obviously, I don't think a Windows 3.1 system is secure.



On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 9:50 AM Lewis Bergman 
wrote:

> Well that is pretty funny.
> My statement is based on Steve's statement. No OS is secure out of the box
> and unmaintained. But by your statement, all OS's are equivalent and the
> admin is the only difference between any OS. So by your logic Windows 3.1,
> Server 2003, BSD, CentOS, Debian, and Ubuntu are all equal in their
> ability to withstand penetration because the OS doesn't matter since the
> admin is all that counts.
> OS's do have inherent characteristics that make them to be more or less
> secure.
> Of course you should break the shrinkwrap and stick some computer on a
> public IP untouched. But that isn't what I was suggesting or implying.
>
> On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 8:40 AM Josh Baird  wrote:
>
>> "Ubuntu is and has been more secure than CentOS" is not an accurate
>> statement.
>>
>> A system is only as secure as you make it.  CentOS is perfectly secure
>> when operated correctly.  As is any flavor of Debian.
>>
>> Put a Debian system in the hands of someone who doesn't know what they
>> are doing and it's just as insecure as anything else.
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 8:13 AM Lewis Bergman 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ubuntu is backed by Canonical, is based on Debian, and as for security I
>>> would say Ubuntu is and has been more secure than CentOS and not as secure
>>> as Debian.
>>> But to be clear they are better like Jennifer Garner is hotter than
>>> Jennifer Aniston. Sure, hotter, but you likely would be really happy with
>>> either one of them.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 11:59 PM Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Holy shit, I just took a cursory look at redhat pricing. Starts at 350
>>>> a year per server, physical server only, and not intended for production
>>>> use. 2500 a year for the data center if I read it right
>>>>
>>>> I run webmin to manage package updates and BIND. If I'm reading
>>>> correctly ubuntu isnt terrible, just less security patched since it's all
>>>> opensource and not subsidized by a big dog like red hat. Probably doable,
>>>> but no yum.
>>>>
>>>> Has something like this happenned with centos historically? I assume
>>>> the linux community will bring about a comparable solution or resolution.
>>>>
>>>> This just stinks, I had my centos process down.
>>>>
>>>> Is this end of life like a microst end of life where they just keep
>>>> patching and saying they mean it this time for years?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 11:28 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Supposedly there will be CentOS Stream?  Kind of like RHEL beta
>>>>> instead of RHEL day old bread.  I guess their answer would be if you are
>>>>> using it in a production environment you could always pay for RHEL.  Or
>>>>> there’s Fedora.  I believe Preseem runs on Fedora.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, December 11, 2020 10:19 PM
>>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Debian is like Ubuntu ,only better.  ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -
>>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> &l

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-12 Thread Lewis Bergman

Well that is pretty funny.
My statement is based on Steve's statement. No OS is secure out of the box
and unmaintained. But by your statement, all OS's are equivalent and the
admin is the only difference between any OS. So by your logic Windows 3.1,
Server 2003, BSD, CentOS, Debian, and Ubuntu are all equal in their
ability to withstand penetration because the OS doesn't matter since the
admin is all that counts.
OS's do have inherent characteristics that make them to be more or less
secure.
Of course you should break the shrinkwrap and stick some computer on a
public IP untouched. But that isn't what I was suggesting or implying.

On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 8:40 AM Josh Baird  wrote:

> "Ubuntu is and has been more secure than CentOS" is not an accurate
> statement.
>
> A system is only as secure as you make it.  CentOS is perfectly secure
> when operated correctly.  As is any flavor of Debian.
>
> Put a Debian system in the hands of someone who doesn't know what they are
> doing and it's just as insecure as anything else.
>
> On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 8:13 AM Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:
>
>> Ubuntu is backed by Canonical, is based on Debian, and as for security I
>> would say Ubuntu is and has been more secure than CentOS and not as secure
>> as Debian.
>> But to be clear they are better like Jennifer Garner is hotter than
>> Jennifer Aniston. Sure, hotter, but you likely would be really happy with
>> either one of them.
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 11:59 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Holy shit, I just took a cursory look at redhat pricing. Starts at 350 a
>>> year per server, physical server only, and not intended for production use.
>>> 2500 a year for the data center if I read it right
>>>
>>> I run webmin to manage package updates and BIND. If I'm reading
>>> correctly ubuntu isnt terrible, just less security patched since it's all
>>> opensource and not subsidized by a big dog like red hat. Probably doable,
>>> but no yum.
>>>
>>> Has something like this happenned with centos historically? I assume the
>>> linux community will bring about a comparable solution or resolution.
>>>
>>> This just stinks, I had my centos process down.
>>>
>>> Is this end of life like a microst end of life where they just keep
>>> patching and saying they mean it this time for years?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 11:28 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Supposedly there will be CentOS Stream?  Kind of like RHEL beta instead
>>>> of RHEL day old bread.  I guess their answer would be if you are using it
>>>> in a production environment you could always pay for RHEL.  Or there’s
>>>> Fedora.  I believe Preseem runs on Fedora.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
>>>> *Sent:* Friday, December 11, 2020 10:19 PM
>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Debian is like Ubuntu ,only better.  ;-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -
>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> *From: *"Steve Jones" 
>>>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>>>> *Sent: *Friday, December 11, 2020 5:12:13 PM
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
>>>>
>>>> I've been a peasant my whole life, is there any other way?
>>>>
>>>> I think powercode is ubuntu now, so I'll probably go that route, are
>>>> there major differences to it?
>>>>
>>>> I dont like saying

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-12 Thread Josh Baird

"Ubuntu is and has been more secure than CentOS" is not an accurate
statement.

A system is only as secure as you make it.  CentOS is perfectly secure when
operated correctly.  As is any flavor of Debian.

Put a Debian system in the hands of someone who doesn't know what they are
doing and it's just as insecure as anything else.

On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 8:13 AM Lewis Bergman 
wrote:

> Ubuntu is backed by Canonical, is based on Debian, and as for security I
> would say Ubuntu is and has been more secure than CentOS and not as secure
> as Debian.
> But to be clear they are better like Jennifer Garner is hotter than
> Jennifer Aniston. Sure, hotter, but you likely would be really happy with
> either one of them.
>
> On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 11:59 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> Holy shit, I just took a cursory look at redhat pricing. Starts at 350 a
>> year per server, physical server only, and not intended for production use.
>> 2500 a year for the data center if I read it right
>>
>> I run webmin to manage package updates and BIND. If I'm reading correctly
>> ubuntu isnt terrible, just less security patched since it's all opensource
>> and not subsidized by a big dog like red hat. Probably doable, but no yum.
>>
>> Has something like this happenned with centos historically? I assume the
>> linux community will bring about a comparable solution or resolution.
>>
>> This just stinks, I had my centos process down.
>>
>> Is this end of life like a microst end of life where they just keep
>> patching and saying they mean it this time for years?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 11:28 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>>> Supposedly there will be CentOS Stream?  Kind of like RHEL beta instead
>>> of RHEL day old bread.  I guess their answer would be if you are using it
>>> in a production environment you could always pay for RHEL.  Or there’s
>>> Fedora.  I believe Preseem runs on Fedora.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
>>> *Sent:* Friday, December 11, 2020 10:19 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Debian is like Ubuntu ,only better.  ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *From: *"Steve Jones" 
>>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>>> *Sent: *Friday, December 11, 2020 5:12:13 PM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
>>>
>>> I've been a peasant my whole life, is there any other way?
>>>
>>> I think powercode is ubuntu now, so I'll probably go that route, are
>>> there major differences to it?
>>>
>>> I dont like saying ubuntu, too much like ubnt
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 3:47 PM Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>>>
>>> On 12/11/20 13:21, Steve Jones wrote:
>>> > Am I reading all this right? Redhat officially killed centos and its
>>> > tombstoned in 2021?
>>> >
>>> > Everything I run is centos. It's not like I know centos but I have my
>>> > resource sets on where to go to resolve anything that pops up.
>>> >
>>> > Is this just a normal thing in the linux world where something is
>>> ended
>>> > but actually just rebrands and keeps going or is it a legit end of the
>>> OS?
>>>
>>>
>>> It happens. Someone will probably fork it and make up a new distro if
>>> that hasn't happened already. IMO the main reason to use CentOS was
>>> because it was rebuilt RHEL.
>>>
>>> I gave up on Red Hat about two releases into Fedora Core when it became
>>> obvious it was just rapidly changing garbage for testing on the peasants
>>> before bringing fixes into their commercial version.
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-12 Thread Lewis Bergman

Ubuntu is backed by Canonical, is based on Debian, and as for security I
would say Ubuntu is and has been more secure than CentOS and not as secure
as Debian.
But to be clear they are better like Jennifer Garner is hotter than
Jennifer Aniston. Sure, hotter, but you likely would be really happy with
either one of them.

On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 11:59 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> Holy shit, I just took a cursory look at redhat pricing. Starts at 350 a
> year per server, physical server only, and not intended for production use.
> 2500 a year for the data center if I read it right
>
> I run webmin to manage package updates and BIND. If I'm reading correctly
> ubuntu isnt terrible, just less security patched since it's all opensource
> and not subsidized by a big dog like red hat. Probably doable, but no yum.
>
> Has something like this happenned with centos historically? I assume the
> linux community will bring about a comparable solution or resolution.
>
> This just stinks, I had my centos process down.
>
> Is this end of life like a microst end of life where they just keep
> patching and saying they mean it this time for years?
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 11:28 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Supposedly there will be CentOS Stream?  Kind of like RHEL beta instead
>> of RHEL day old bread.  I guess their answer would be if you are using it
>> in a production environment you could always pay for RHEL.  Or there’s
>> Fedora.  I believe Preseem runs on Fedora.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
>> *Sent:* Friday, December 11, 2020 10:19 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
>>
>>
>>
>> Debian is like Ubuntu ,only better.  ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>>
>> *From: *"Steve Jones" 
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Friday, December 11, 2020 5:12:13 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
>>
>> I've been a peasant my whole life, is there any other way?
>>
>> I think powercode is ubuntu now, so I'll probably go that route, are
>> there major differences to it?
>>
>> I dont like saying ubuntu, too much like ubnt
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 3:47 PM Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>>
>> On 12/11/20 13:21, Steve Jones wrote:
>> > Am I reading all this right? Redhat officially killed centos and its
>> > tombstoned in 2021?
>> >
>> > Everything I run is centos. It's not like I know centos but I have my
>> > resource sets on where to go to resolve anything that pops up.
>> >
>> > Is this just a normal thing in the linux world where something is ended
>> > but actually just rebrands and keeps going or is it a legit end of the
>> OS?
>>
>>
>> It happens. Someone will probably fork it and make up a new distro if
>> that hasn't happened already. IMO the main reason to use CentOS was
>> because it was rebuilt RHEL.
>>
>> I gave up on Red Hat about two releases into Fedora Core when it became
>> obvious it was just rapidly changing garbage for testing on the peasants
>> before bringing fixes into their commercial version.
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-11 Thread Steve Jones

Holy shit, I just took a cursory look at redhat pricing. Starts at 350 a
year per server, physical server only, and not intended for production use.
2500 a year for the data center if I read it right

I run webmin to manage package updates and BIND. If I'm reading correctly
ubuntu isnt terrible, just less security patched since it's all opensource
and not subsidized by a big dog like red hat. Probably doable, but no yum.

Has something like this happenned with centos historically? I assume the
linux community will bring about a comparable solution or resolution.

This just stinks, I had my centos process down.

Is this end of life like a microst end of life where they just keep
patching and saying they mean it this time for years?




On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 11:28 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Supposedly there will be CentOS Stream?  Kind of like RHEL beta instead of
> RHEL day old bread.  I guess their answer would be if you are using it in a
> production environment you could always pay for RHEL.  Or there’s Fedora.
> I believe Preseem runs on Fedora.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Friday, December 11, 2020 10:19 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
>
>
>
> Debian is like Ubuntu ,only better.  ;-)
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ------
>
> *From: *"Steve Jones" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Friday, December 11, 2020 5:12:13 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
>
> I've been a peasant my whole life, is there any other way?
>
> I think powercode is ubuntu now, so I'll probably go that route, are there
> major differences to it?
>
> I dont like saying ubuntu, too much like ubnt
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 3:47 PM Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>
> On 12/11/20 13:21, Steve Jones wrote:
> > Am I reading all this right? Redhat officially killed centos and its
> > tombstoned in 2021?
> >
> > Everything I run is centos. It's not like I know centos but I have my
> > resource sets on where to go to resolve anything that pops up.
> >
> > Is this just a normal thing in the linux world where something is ended
> > but actually just rebrands and keeps going or is it a legit end of the
> OS?
>
>
> It happens. Someone will probably fork it and make up a new distro if
> that hasn't happened already. IMO the main reason to use CentOS was
> because it was rebuilt RHEL.
>
> I gave up on Red Hat about two releases into Fedora Core when it became
> obvious it was just rapidly changing garbage for testing on the peasants
> before bringing fixes into their commercial version.
>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-11 Thread Ken Hohhof

Supposedly there will be CentOS Stream?  Kind of like RHEL beta instead of RHEL 
day old bread.  I guess their answer would be if you are using it in a 
production environment you could always pay for RHEL.  Or there’s Fedora.  I 
believe Preseem runs on Fedora.

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2020 10:19 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

Debian is like Ubuntu ,only better.  ;-)

-
Mike Hammett
 <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>  
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 
 <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>  
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> 
 <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP
 <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>  
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> 

  _  

From: "Steve Jones" mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2020 5:12:13 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

I've been a peasant my whole life, is there any other way?

I think powercode is ubuntu now, so I'll probably go that route, are there 
major differences to it?

I dont like saying ubuntu, too much like ubnt

On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 3:47 PM Seth Mattinen mailto:se...@rollernet.us> > wrote:

On 12/11/20 13:21, Steve Jones wrote:
> Am I reading all this right? Redhat officially killed centos and its 
> tombstoned in 2021?
> 
> Everything I run is centos. It's not like I know centos but I have my 
> resource sets on where to go to resolve anything that pops up.
> 
> Is this just a normal thing in the linux world where something is ended 
> but actually just rebrands and keeps going or is it a legit end of the OS?

It happens. Someone will probably fork it and make up a new distro if 
that hasn't happened already. IMO the main reason to use CentOS was 
because it was rebuilt RHEL.

I gave up on Red Hat about two releases into Fedora Core when it became 
obvious it was just rapidly changing garbage for testing on the peasants 
before bringing fixes into their commercial version.

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Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-11 Thread Mike Hammett

Debian is like Ubuntu ,only better. ;-) 

- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Steve Jones"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2020 5:12:13 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead? 

I've been a peasant my whole life, is there any other way? 
I think powercode is ubuntu now, so I'll probably go that route, are there 
major differences to it? 
I dont like saying ubuntu, too much like ubnt 

On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 3:47 PM Seth Mattinen < se...@rollernet.us > wrote: 

On 12/11/20 13:21, Steve Jones wrote: 
> Am I reading all this right? Redhat officially killed centos and its 
> tombstoned in 2021? 
> 
> Everything I run is centos. It's not like I know centos but I have my 
> resource sets on where to go to resolve anything that pops up. 
> 
> Is this just a normal thing in the linux world where something is ended 
> but actually just rebrands and keeps going or is it a legit end of the OS? 

It happens. Someone will probably fork it and make up a new distro if 
that hasn't happened already. IMO the main reason to use CentOS was 
because it was rebuilt RHEL. 

I gave up on Red Hat about two releases into Fedora Core when it became 
obvious it was just rapidly changing garbage for testing on the peasants 
before bringing fixes into their commercial version. 

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Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-11 Thread Lewis Bergman

Package management for one. Probably the biggest. If you Google it there's
probably how to somewhere on the web for migration from centos to Ubuntu.
LTS is the one you want.

On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 5:13 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

> I've been a peasant my whole life, is there any other way?
> I think powercode is ubuntu now, so I'll probably go that route, are there
> major differences to it?
> I dont like saying ubuntu, too much like ubnt
>
> On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 3:47 PM Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>
>> On 12/11/20 13:21, Steve Jones wrote:
>> > Am I reading all this right? Redhat officially killed centos and its
>> > tombstoned in 2021?
>> >
>> > Everything I run is centos. It's not like I know centos but I have my
>> > resource sets on where to go to resolve anything that pops up.
>> >
>> > Is this just a normal thing in the linux world where something is ended
>> > but actually just rebrands and keeps going or is it a legit end of the
>> OS?
>>
>>
>> It happens. Someone will probably fork it and make up a new distro if
>> that hasn't happened already. IMO the main reason to use CentOS was
>> because it was rebuilt RHEL.
>>
>> I gave up on Red Hat about two releases into Fedora Core when it became
>> obvious it was just rapidly changing garbage for testing on the peasants
>> before bringing fixes into their commercial version.
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-11 Thread Steve Jones

I've been a peasant my whole life, is there any other way?
I think powercode is ubuntu now, so I'll probably go that route, are there
major differences to it?
I dont like saying ubuntu, too much like ubnt

On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 3:47 PM Seth Mattinen  wrote:

> On 12/11/20 13:21, Steve Jones wrote:
> > Am I reading all this right? Redhat officially killed centos and its
> > tombstoned in 2021?
> >
> > Everything I run is centos. It's not like I know centos but I have my
> > resource sets on where to go to resolve anything that pops up.
> >
> > Is this just a normal thing in the linux world where something is ended
> > but actually just rebrands and keeps going or is it a legit end of the
> OS?
>
>
> It happens. Someone will probably fork it and make up a new distro if
> that hasn't happened already. IMO the main reason to use CentOS was
> because it was rebuilt RHEL.
>
> I gave up on Red Hat about two releases into Fedora Core when it became
> obvious it was just rapidly changing garbage for testing on the peasants
> before bringing fixes into their commercial version.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-11 Thread Seth Mattinen


On 12/11/20 13:21, Steve Jones wrote:
Am I reading all this right? Redhat officially killed centos and its 
tombstoned in 2021?


Everything I run is centos. It's not like I know centos but I have my 
resource sets on where to go to resolve anything that pops up.


Is this just a normal thing in the linux world where something is ended 
but actually just rebrands and keeps going or is it a legit end of the OS?



It happens. Someone will probably fork it and make up a new distro if 
that hasn't happened already. IMO the main reason to use CentOS was 
because it was rebuilt RHEL.


I gave up on Red Hat about two releases into Fedora Core when it became 
obvious it was just rapidly changing garbage for testing on the peasants 
before bringing fixes into their commercial version.


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Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

2020-12-11 Thread Lewis Bergman

You picked the distro that has deep commercial roots. The company behind
CentOS has been bought and sold at least twice that I know of. Might be
better with Debian or one of its variants like Ubunty.

On Fri, Dec 11, 2020 at 3:21 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> Am I reading all this right? Redhat officially killed centos and its
> tombstoned in 2021?
>
> Everything I run is centos. It's not like I know centos but I have my
> resource sets on where to go to resolve anything that pops up.
>
> Is this just a normal thing in the linux world where something is ended
> but actually just rebrands and keeps going or is it a legit end of the OS?
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


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