Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Preservation Development: A Dynamic Give Take
As a layman, I chose generic excerpts about balance, choices, economics realities, and historical responsibilities. Regarding the specifics in the article, there seem to be some compelling arguments on all sides. I enjoy hearing knowledgeable and competent people make their cases. === In a message dated 12/3/2008 6:56:10 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Excerpts from the fourth in a series: Landmarks Preservation Meets Development in a Delicate Urban Dance - Series - NYTimes.com orhttp://tinyurl.com/6zahjy (December 2, 2008) It must strike a balance between protecting architecture and accepting economic realities, between a responsibility to history and a knowledge that the city must evolve Its making choices and, without unlimited resources, having to make those choices and being able to do some things and not do other things. == A more relevant excerpt... Preservation is good economics and could have been used to great success in Asbury Park. Preserving sections of old New York can actually spur economic renewal, they say, citing areas like TriBeCa, where the designation of a new historic district in 1992 accelerated the area's transformation into one of the city's most sought-after neighborhoods. There hasn't been enough attention to how new development can work with old buildings, said Andrew S. Dolkart, the director of the historic preservation program at Columbia University. That's the biggest flaw in New York and preservation in the last decade — it's just ignored. All things considered, a relatively tiny proportion of New York land is landmarked. It's hardly an obstacle to economic growth in the city. Developers tend to disagree. ... Werner **Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dpicid=aolcom40vanityncid=emlcntaolcom0002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Gannett Co. Inc. has eliminated 206 positions
Yet triCityNews has just passed the 70 page mark. Better business model - better journalism model. The future of journalism is journalists telling you upfront what their political affiliations are. It's just more trustworthy. The fastest growing news delivery format in America is partisan blogs. The old format of make-believe objectivity is dying. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Michael W. Brim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gannett eliminates positions at New Jersey newspapers December 3, 2008 . Gannett Co. Inc. has eliminated 206 positions at its six newspapers in New Jersey due to declining advertising revenues and the severe economic downturn afflicting the state and the nation. The company began notifying the affected employees Tuesday at the Daily Record, the Asbury Park Press in Neptune, the Courier-Post in Cherry Hill, the Home News Tribune in East Brunswick, the Courier News in Bridgewater and the Daily Journal in Vineland. The economic downturn we are facing is severe and is expected to last throughout next year, said Thomas M. Donovan, president and publisher of the Asbury Park Press and vice president of Gannett's East Newspaper Group. We have reduced expenses significantly throughout this year. But, unfortunately, as we looked ahead to economic forecasts for 2009, it became clear that we needed to make further reductions. Employees who were laid off received severance benefits commensurate with their years of service. Michael W. Brim 321 Sunset Avenue, Unit 5F Asbury Park NJ 07712-5550 Cell: 732-996-8160 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Gannett Co. Inc. has eliminated 206 positions
Yes! Let's just have everyone in an information ghetto, where they only read what they want to hear by people who already agree with them! Perfect! On Dec 3, 2008, at 8:46 AM, justifiedright wrote: Yet triCityNews has just passed the 70 page mark. Better business model - better journalism model. The future of journalism is journalists telling you upfront what their political affiliations are. It's just more trustworthy. The fastest growing news delivery format in America is partisan blogs. The old format of make-believe objectivity is dying. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Michael W. Brim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gannett eliminates positions at New Jersey newspapers December 3, 2008 . Gannett Co. Inc. has eliminated 206 positions at its six newspapers in New Jersey due to declining advertising revenues and the severe economic downturn afflicting the state and the nation. The company began notifying the affected employees Tuesday at the Daily Record, the Asbury Park Press in Neptune, the Courier-Post in Cherry Hill, the Home News Tribune in East Brunswick, the Courier News in Bridgewater and the Daily Journal in Vineland. The economic downturn we are facing is severe and is expected to last throughout next year, said Thomas M. Donovan, president and publisher of the Asbury Park Press and vice president of Gannett's East Newspaper Group. We have reduced expenses significantly throughout this year. But, unfortunately, as we looked ahead to economic forecasts for 2009, it became clear that we needed to make further reductions. Employees who were laid off received severance benefits commensurate with their years of service. Michael W. Brim 321 Sunset Avenue, Unit 5F Asbury Park NJ 07712-5550 Cell: 732-996-8160 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Gannett Co. Inc. has eliminated 206 positions
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yet triCityNews has just passed the 70 page mark. Better business model - better journalism model. the tri city is like the net publish a bit of content, give it away for free to be paid for with ads price what is perceived to be cheap. Each page is looked at as is this page profitable for me to produce.. Ad revenue vs content vs cost of production per page. The Internet. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Any thoughts of selling the rights to
Future parking revenues? As in the cases I mentioned yesterday, some munis are selling (leasing) the rights to future parking revenues. Looks like the going rate is about 25,000 per spot for a 75 year period. Additional kickers are bumps for a share of overtime fines. So if AP had 1200 spaces along the ocean, that would amount to about $37 millon paid upfront The parking spaces on the street are an asset. When the esperana was being sold, they were giving one spot. Additional spot was I think about $30k. I think dan came up with an appraisers method of justifying that cost. So how about it - should the city look into leasing the rights to parking in the city? Oceanfront spots higher then downtown and main (if it all).. Be nice not to see employees and owners of the businesses not taking up the ocean ave spots.. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Gannett Co. Inc. has eliminated 206 positions
Exactly! I dubbed triCity a plog short for printed web log. The paper adopts the name. It's the future. I welcome it. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright justifiedright@ wrote: Yet triCityNews has just passed the 70 page mark. Better business model - better journalism model. the tri city is like the net publish a bit of content, give it away for free to be paid for with ads price what is perceived to be cheap. Each page is looked at as is this page profitable for me to produce.. Ad revenue vs content vs cost of production per page. The Internet. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
Here is how the math works. Most investors would be looking for a 10% rate of return, maybe more in this environment. So if we calculate how much money the meters could generate in a given year, we could also figure out how much an investor would be willing to put up in an upfront payment for the rights to that future stream of cash flow. I believe there are about 2000 spots. If we assume they each collect 50 cents an hour for 12 hours for each day of the summer we get the following numbers (again these are just assumptions). 16 weeks of summer times 7 days per week is 112 prospective days. At 2000 meters, 12 hours per day at 50 cents (nothing assumed for off season) you generate 1.344 million per year (the town could keep the fees from parking tickets not assumed here). The present value of that stream of free cash flows (assuming a 10 year deal with a 10% rate of return to the investor would be 8.258 million. After 10 years the meters would revert back to the town's ownership. So using those numbers an investor would be willing to put up 8.258 million to the town up front for the right to collect 1.344 million per year for 10 years. The investor gets a 10% return, Asbury get's a big up front payment to bridge a budget gap and the meters revert back to the town after year 10 so Asbury doesn't mortgage its future earnings power. Dan S. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakdorf@ wrote: here's another read. Realize for once, that those parking spaces are GOLD. But don't take the money upfront, cause it would just get pissed away. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here is how the math works. Most investors would be looking for a 10% rate of return, maybe more in this environment. Bottom line via the above scenario is that the Parking Rights be leased for 10 years for a lump sum payment of $8.25 Million City has a deficit of $13 Million that could be up to $15 Million next year. There are no guarantees of increased cash flow from redevelopment because there are no timelines, no performance bonds, no non-performance penalties. The Council has no will to take the 'developers' to Court. Keep in mind that the lack of redevelopment will have a very adverse effect on parking revenues making it a riskier venture than appears on the surface. Leasing the Parking Rights as described would not clear the deficit and would not address the underlying flaws in the situation. It could help however as part of a broader strategy.. Werner Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The present value of that stream of free cash flows (assuming a 10 year deal with a 10% rate of return to the investor would be 8.258 million. After 10 years the meters would revert back to the town's ownership. So using those numbers an investor would be willing to put up 8.258 million to the town up front for the right to collect 1.344 million per year for 10 years. The investor gets a 10% return, Asbury get's a big up front payment to bridge a budget gap and the meters revert back to the town after year 10 so Asbury doesn't mortgage its future earnings power. Dan S. Your math only holds true for a short period (no reversionary interest) and does not account for appreciation (increase in parking fees). What do you mean by return? IRR or return ON capital or cap rate - a return OF and ON capital. There is a difference between YIELD (Y) and CAP (R) rates. Because R = Y - Change in Value, if there is appreciation (increase in value as there always is - and would be in this case IF the operator could increase parking fees over the 10-year period), Y (yield, discount, interest rate or IRR) is almost always higher than the R (cap rate). Thus, if the investor is looking for an IRR of 10%, the cap rate is lower. I was going to reply to oaks post that I would think a cap rate of 6%-8% would be appropriate. Last year it was probably under 5%. At 6%, the $1.344M would be worth $22.4M assuming the income stream could be capitalized into perpetuity ($1.344/6%). Under something like Oak suggests (75-year term) direct capitalization would be more appropriate than your discounting method, and even that does not account for an increase in the income over the 10-years. (a CAP rate reflects the relationship between a SINGLE estimate of income and value, while a YIELD rate is the relationship between a SERIES of incomes and value.) The parking spaces in AP are very valuable but SHOULD not be leased in my opinion, unless on a short-term basis with kickers and sharing of revenues. Getting the money up front would only makes us blow it. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
Hopefully not boring everyone on the board with financial lingo i will try to answer as simply as possible. I purposefully didn't run this into perpetuity because i think it would be absurd to give up the rights to ownership forever. Hence my ten year term. I could have picked 30 years which is how many such projects are financed. Obviously the longer the period the more the upfront payment to the town. Return in this instance is IRR but takes into account the time value of money. Remember that to the investor the initial returns are negative but the out year returns are very postive but averaged out equates to 10%. Or put another way, it takes about 6 years for the investor to break even but then years 6-10 are all gravy but the overall IRR is 10% (again no leverage is used) I didn't use a cap rate because the investor has no ownership at the end of a term. That is the same reason i didn't include change in value because that will benefit the town, not the investor. The only snafu is that the town would probably have to guarantee the payment stream because no investor in their right mind would sign up such a deal without collateral to fall back on. So because they don't own the spots, the investor would need a guarantee. This is where a lot of the interesting scenario's come in but requires the town to not screw it up. The town could guarantee a specific payment but then keep any overages. The investor has a guaranteed income stream and the town gets the money's over a certain level. The rub is that you are making a bet that redevelopment continues, the meters bring in the forecasted revenues and that is probably just too dicey considering the town's current situation. I wonder if the state would work with the town so Asbury can get off the dole with some performance metrics outlined to make sure redevelopment continues on course. I'm just free associating here so feel free to add if anyone has any other ideas. Your math only holds true for a short period (no reversionary interest) and does not account for appreciation (increase in parking fees). What do you mean by return? IRR or return ON capital or cap rate - a return OF and ON capital. There is a difference between YIELD (Y) and CAP (R) rates. Because R = Y - Change in Value, if there is appreciation (increase in value as there always is - and would be in this case IF the operator could increase parking fees over the 10-year period), Y (yield, discount, interest rate or IRR) is almost always higher than the R (cap rate). Thus, if the investor is looking for an IRR of 10%, the cap rate is lower. I was going to reply to oaks post that I would think a cap rate of 6%-8% would be appropriate. Last year it was probably under 5%. At 6%, the $1.344M would be worth $22.4M assuming the income stream could be capitalized into perpetuity ($1.344/6%). Under something like Oak suggests (75-year term) direct capitalization would be more appropriate than your discounting method, and even that does not account for an increase in the income over the 10-years. (a CAP rate reflects the relationship between a SINGLE estimate of income and value, while a YIELD rate is the relationship between a SERIES of incomes and value.) The parking spaces in AP are very valuable but SHOULD not be leased in my opinion, unless on a short-term basis with kickers and sharing of revenues. Getting the money up front would only makes us blow it. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Gannett Co. Inc. has eliminated 206 positions
I agree, John. And I could go on about the need for serious professional journalism and a citizenry with enough media literacy to sort through all media including bloggers. Instead I posted my subjective thoughts about some local blogging to the politics group here: http://tinyurl.com/5oukwo In a message dated 12/3/2008 9:19:11 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yes! Let's just have everyone in an information ghetto, where they only read what they want to hear by people who already agree with them! Perfect! On Dec 3, 2008, at 8:46 AM, justifiedright wrote: Yet triCityNews has just passed the 70 page mark. Better business model - better journalism model. The future of journalism is journalists telling you upfront what their political affiliations are. It's just more trustworthy. The fastest growing news delivery format in America is partisan blogs. The old format of make-believe objectivity is dying. **Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dpicid=aolcom40vanityncid=emlcntaolcom0010) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
The investor would want a discount for present value. They aren't going to give you 50 cents now for 50 cents they are going to get from a meter 10 years from now, so you can invest it and double the money. They may as well invest it and double their money. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 dsher4@ wrote: The present value of that stream of free cash flows (assuming a 10 year deal with a 10% rate of return to the investor would be 8.258 million. After 10 years the meters would revert back to the town's ownership. So using those numbers an investor would be willing to put up 8.258 million to the town up front for the right to collect 1.344 million per year for 10 years. The investor gets a 10% return, Asbury get's a big up front payment to bridge a budget gap and the meters revert back to the town after year 10 so Asbury doesn't mortgage its future earnings power. Dan S. Your math only holds true for a short period (no reversionary interest) and does not account for appreciation (increase in parking fees). What do you mean by return? IRR or return ON capital or cap rate - a return OF and ON capital. There is a difference between YIELD (Y) and CAP (R) rates. Because R = Y - Change in Value, if there is appreciation (increase in value as there always is - and would be in this case IF the operator could increase parking fees over the 10-year period), Y (yield, discount, interest rate or IRR) is almost always higher than the R (cap rate). Thus, if the investor is looking for an IRR of 10%, the cap rate is lower. I was going to reply to oaks post that I would think a cap rate of 6%-8% would be appropriate. Last year it was probably under 5%. At 6%, the $1.344M would be worth $22.4M assuming the income stream could be capitalized into perpetuity ($1.344/6%). Under something like Oak suggests (75-year term) direct capitalization would be more appropriate than your discounting method, and even that does not account for an increase in the income over the 10-years. (a CAP rate reflects the relationship between a SINGLE estimate of income and value, while a YIELD rate is the relationship between a SERIES of incomes and value.) The parking spaces in AP are very valuable but SHOULD not be leased in my opinion, unless on a short-term basis with kickers and sharing of revenues. Getting the money up front would only makes us blow it. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
the 10% takes all of that into account. Think of this as a bond to the investor. Just like people put up a $100 to get a 4% guaranteed return from the U.S treasury. Doubling your money requires some risk parameters --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The investor would want a discount for present value. They aren't going to give you 50 cents now for 50 cents they are going to get from a meter 10 years from now, so you can invest it and double the money. They may as well invest it and double their money. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 dsher4@ wrote: The present value of that stream of free cash flows (assuming a 10 year deal with a 10% rate of return to the investor would be 8.258 million. After 10 years the meters would revert back to the town's ownership. So using those numbers an investor would be willing to put up 8.258 million to the town up front for the right to collect 1.344 million per year for 10 years. The investor gets a 10% return, Asbury get's a big up front payment to bridge a budget gap and the meters revert back to the town after year 10 so Asbury doesn't mortgage its future earnings power. Dan S. Your math only holds true for a short period (no reversionary interest) and does not account for appreciation (increase in parking fees). What do you mean by return? IRR or return ON capital or cap rate - a return OF and ON capital. There is a difference between YIELD (Y) and CAP (R) rates. Because R = Y - Change in Value, if there is appreciation (increase in value as there always is - and would be in this case IF the operator could increase parking fees over the 10-year period), Y (yield, discount, interest rate or IRR) is almost always higher than the R (cap rate). Thus, if the investor is looking for an IRR of 10%, the cap rate is lower. I was going to reply to oaks post that I would think a cap rate of 6%-8% would be appropriate. Last year it was probably under 5%. At 6%, the $1.344M would be worth $22.4M assuming the income stream could be capitalized into perpetuity ($1.344/6%). Under something like Oak suggests (75-year term) direct capitalization would be more appropriate than your discounting method, and even that does not account for an increase in the income over the 10-years. (a CAP rate reflects the relationship between a SINGLE estimate of income and value, while a YIELD rate is the relationship between a SERIES of incomes and value.) The parking spaces in AP are very valuable but SHOULD not be leased in my opinion, unless on a short-term basis with kickers and sharing of revenues. Getting the money up front would only makes us blow it. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
Or to put really simply, this is a municipal Bond structure. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the 10% takes all of that into account. Think of this as a bond to the investor. Just like people put up a $100 to get a 4% guaranteed return from the U.S treasury. Doubling your money requires some risk parameters --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright justifiedright@ wrote: The investor would want a discount for present value. They aren't going to give you 50 cents now for 50 cents they are going to get from a meter 10 years from now, so you can invest it and double the money. They may as well invest it and double their money. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 dsher4@ wrote: The present value of that stream of free cash flows (assuming a 10 year deal with a 10% rate of return to the investor would be 8.258 million. After 10 years the meters would revert back to the town's ownership. So using those numbers an investor would be willing to put up 8.258 million to the town up front for the right to collect 1.344 million per year for 10 years. The investor gets a 10% return, Asbury get's a big up front payment to bridge a budget gap and the meters revert back to the town after year 10 so Asbury doesn't mortgage its future earnings power. Dan S. Your math only holds true for a short period (no reversionary interest) and does not account for appreciation (increase in parking fees). What do you mean by return? IRR or return ON capital or cap rate - a return OF and ON capital. There is a difference between YIELD (Y) and CAP (R) rates. Because R = Y - Change in Value, if there is appreciation (increase in value as there always is - and would be in this case IF the operator could increase parking fees over the 10-year period), Y (yield, discount, interest rate or IRR) is almost always higher than the R (cap rate). Thus, if the investor is looking for an IRR of 10%, the cap rate is lower. I was going to reply to oaks post that I would think a cap rate of 6%-8% would be appropriate. Last year it was probably under 5%. At 6%, the $1.344M would be worth $22.4M assuming the income stream could be capitalized into perpetuity ($1.344/6%). Under something like Oak suggests (75-year term) direct capitalization would be more appropriate than your discounting method, and even that does not account for an increase in the income over the 10-years. (a CAP rate reflects the relationship between a SINGLE estimate of income and value, while a YIELD rate is the relationship between a SERIES of incomes and value.) The parking spaces in AP are very valuable but SHOULD not be leased in my opinion, unless on a short-term basis with kickers and sharing of revenues. Getting the money up front would only makes us blow it. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
Yea I went back and read your post again and I think I see where you put in the present value - within the difference between the 13+ million and the 8+ million. Very interesting stuff and thanks for posting it. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Or to put really simply, this is a municipal Bond structure. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 dsher4@ wrote: the 10% takes all of that into account. Think of this as a bond to the investor. Just like people put up a $100 to get a 4% guaranteed return from the U.S treasury. Doubling your money requires some risk parameters --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright justifiedright@ wrote: The investor would want a discount for present value. They aren't going to give you 50 cents now for 50 cents they are going to get from a meter 10 years from now, so you can invest it and double the money. They may as well invest it and double their money. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 dsher4@ wrote: The present value of that stream of free cash flows (assuming a 10 year deal with a 10% rate of return to the investor would be 8.258 million. After 10 years the meters would revert back to the town's ownership. So using those numbers an investor would be willing to put up 8.258 million to the town up front for the right to collect 1.344 million per year for 10 years. The investor gets a 10% return, Asbury get's a big up front payment to bridge a budget gap and the meters revert back to the town after year 10 so Asbury doesn't mortgage its future earnings power. Dan S. Your math only holds true for a short period (no reversionary interest) and does not account for appreciation (increase in parking fees). What do you mean by return? IRR or return ON capital or cap rate - a return OF and ON capital. There is a difference between YIELD (Y) and CAP (R) rates. Because R = Y - Change in Value, if there is appreciation (increase in value as there always is - and would be in this case IF the operator could increase parking fees over the 10-year period), Y (yield, discount, interest rate or IRR) is almost always higher than the R (cap rate). Thus, if the investor is looking for an IRR of 10%, the cap rate is lower. I was going to reply to oaks post that I would think a cap rate of 6%-8% would be appropriate. Last year it was probably under 5%. At 6%, the $1.344M would be worth $22.4M assuming the income stream could be capitalized into perpetuity ($1.344/6%). Under something like Oak suggests (75-year term) direct capitalization would be more appropriate than your discounting method, and even that does not account for an increase in the income over the 10-years. (a CAP rate reflects the relationship between a SINGLE estimate of income and value, while a YIELD rate is the relationship between a SERIES of incomes and value.) The parking spaces in AP are very valuable but SHOULD not be leased in my opinion, unless on a short-term basis with kickers and sharing of revenues. Getting the money up front would only makes us blow it. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Return in this instance is IRR but takes into account the time value of money. Always does. Remember that to the investor the initial returns are negative but the out year returns are very postive but averaged out equates to 10%. Or put another way, it takes about 6 years for the investor to break even but then years 6-10 are all gravy but the overall IRR is 10% (again no leverage is used) I didn't use a cap rate because the investor has no ownership at the end of a term. Agreed, 10-year term too short for perpetuity. That is the same reason i didn't include change in value because that will benefit the town, not the investor. Change in value means change in income and value. Parking rates stay the same for 10 years? Maybe. The only snafu is that the town would probably have to guarantee the payment stream because no investor in their right mind would sign up such a deal without collateral to fall back on. Risk. That's why they get a 10% return - the return includes what perceived risk there is. If the city guarantees the level of parking fees then the IRR should be the city's credit rating (let's not go there). All the city has to guarantee is the lessee's right to collect the parking fees during the lease period. This is where a lot of the interesting scenario's come in but requires the town to not screw it up. The town could guarantee a specific payment but then keep any overages. The investor has a guaranteed income stream and the town gets the money's over a certain level. The rub is that you are making a bet that redevelopment continues, the meters bring in the forecasted revenues and that is probably just too dicey considering the town's current situation. I wonder if the state would work with the town so Asbury can get off the dole with some performance metrics outlined to make sure redevelopment continues on course. I'm just free associating here so feel free to add if anyone has any other ideas. Since we already incurred the cost of the meters, and enforce the regs, I think it would be foolish to lease them out. If we had not put them in yet, then part of the lease would be the obligation of the lessee to install the meters and pay for the enforcement and collection of the fees. Sort of like a laundry contract in an apartment building. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The investor would want a discount for present value. They aren't going to give you 50 cents now for 50 cents they are going to get from a meter 10 years from now, so you can invest it and double the money. They may as well invest it and double their money. Stick to the law. A yield or cap rate converts future dollars to present value. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
All good points. At the risk of being incestuous perhaps they should approach MM about this setup. That way it is in each parties best interest to make sure the area continues to improve. Maybe that is insanity but thought i'd throw it out there --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 dsher4@ wrote: Return in this instance is IRR but takes into account the time value of money. Always does. Remember that to the investor the initial returns are negative but the out year returns are very postive but averaged out equates to 10%. Or put another way, it takes about 6 years for the investor to break even but then years 6-10 are all gravy but the overall IRR is 10% (again no leverage is used) I didn't use a cap rate because the investor has no ownership at the end of a term. Agreed, 10-year term too short for perpetuity. That is the same reason i didn't include change in value because that will benefit the town, not the investor. Change in value means change in income and value. Parking rates stay the same for 10 years? Maybe. The only snafu is that the town would probably have to guarantee the payment stream because no investor in their right mind would sign up such a deal without collateral to fall back on. Risk. That's why they get a 10% return - the return includes what perceived risk there is. If the city guarantees the level of parking fees then the IRR should be the city's credit rating (let's not go there). All the city has to guarantee is the lessee's right to collect the parking fees during the lease period. This is where a lot of the interesting scenario's come in but requires the town to not screw it up. The town could guarantee a specific payment but then keep any overages. The investor has a guaranteed income stream and the town gets the money's over a certain level. The rub is that you are making a bet that redevelopment continues, the meters bring in the forecasted revenues and that is probably just too dicey considering the town's current situation. I wonder if the state would work with the town so Asbury can get off the dole with some performance metrics outlined to make sure redevelopment continues on course. I'm just free associating here so feel free to add if anyone has any other ideas. Since we already incurred the cost of the meters, and enforce the regs, I think it would be foolish to lease them out. If we had not put them in yet, then part of the lease would be the obligation of the lessee to install the meters and pay for the enforcement and collection of the fees. Sort of like a laundry contract in an apartment building. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
So if I put 8.3 million in a safe investment vehicle with 5% compounded annually, how much would I have at the end of 10 years? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright justifiedright@ wrote: The investor would want a discount for present value. They aren't going to give you 50 cents now for 50 cents they are going to get from a meter 10 years from now, so you can invest it and double the money. They may as well invest it and double their money. Stick to the law. A yield or cap rate converts future dollars to present value. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
$13,519,825 and 40 cents --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So if I put 8.3 million in a safe investment vehicle with 5% compounded annually, how much would I have at the end of 10 years? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright justifiedright@ wrote: The investor would want a discount for present value. They aren't going to give you 50 cents now for 50 cents they are going to get from a meter 10 years from now, so you can invest it and double the money. They may as well invest it and double their money. Stick to the law. A yield or cap rate converts future dollars to present value. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
I believe that shows that under the example we have been dealing with today, the amount calculated for present value and rate of return is off by a great deal if we are going to attract an investor for a ten year period. As the below number shows, he can throw it all in a nice safe CD and make more. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: $13,519,825 and 40 cents --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright justifiedright@ wrote: So if I put 8.3 million in a safe investment vehicle with 5% compounded annually, how much would I have at the end of 10 years? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright justifiedright@ wrote: The investor would want a discount for present value. They aren't going to give you 50 cents now for 50 cents they are going to get from a meter 10 years from now, so you can invest it and double the money. They may as well invest it and double their money. Stick to the law. A yield or cap rate converts future dollars to present value. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
Not necessarily. Municipal bonds are tax free for one Secondly, we just randomly picked a 10% return. We could increase the return to 12% for example. Third the paramaters around a bond can have infinite scenario's. example, the investor and town could split the revenues over a certain threshold. There are many possibilities --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe that shows that under the example we have been dealing with today, the amount calculated for present value and rate of return is off by a great deal if we are going to attract an investor for a ten year period. As the below number shows, he can throw it all in a nice safe CD and make more. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 dsher4@ wrote: $13,519,825 and 40 cents --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright justifiedright@ wrote: So if I put 8.3 million in a safe investment vehicle with 5% compounded annually, how much would I have at the end of 10 years? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright justifiedright@ wrote: The investor would want a discount for present value. They aren't going to give you 50 cents now for 50 cents they are going to get from a meter 10 years from now, so you can invest it and double the money. They may as well invest it and double their money. Stick to the law. A yield or cap rate converts future dollars to present value. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So if I put 8.3 million in a safe investment vehicle with 5% compounded annually, how much would I have at the end of 10 years? $ amount X (1 + i)^n i = rate of interest n = compounding periods Let's you find the compound interest factor The answer using your numbers $8.3M X (1 +5%)^10 $8.3M X 1.628895 $13.519825M Go in reverse. What is the present value of $13.519825 to be received in 10 years assuming a 5% interest rate. Present value factor is reciprocal 1/(1+i)^n $13.519825M X 1/(1+5%)^10 $13.519825M X .613913 = $8.3M Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
That's right - which is why I don't think the posts have been correct in calling the deal as presented a 10% rate of return to the investor. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright justifiedright@ wrote: So if I put 8.3 million in a safe investment vehicle with 5% compounded annually, how much would I have at the end of 10 years? $ amount X (1 + i)^n i = rate of interest n = compounding periods Let's you find the compound interest factor The answer using your numbers $8.3M X (1 +5%)^10 $8.3M X 1.628895 $13.519825M Go in reverse. What is the present value of $13.519825 to be received in 10 years assuming a 5% interest rate. Present value factor is reciprocal 1/(1+i)^n $13.519825M X 1/(1+5%)^10 $13.519825M X .613913 = $8.3M Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
The bank down the street from me is closer to 5. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright justifiedright@ wrote: I believe that shows that under the example we have been dealing with today, the amount calculated for present value and rate of return is off by a great deal if we are going to attract an investor for a ten year period. As the below number shows, he can throw it all in a nice safe CD and make more. Current national avg for a 5-year cd is 3.77%. No 10-year cd's. No chance of an increase in the investment unlike the parking fees or any other flexible rent stream you invest in. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe that shows that under the example we have been dealing with today, the amount calculated for present value and rate of return is off by a great deal if we are going to attract an investor for a ten year period. As the below number shows, he can throw it all in a nice safe CD and make more. Current national avg for a 5-year cd is 3.77%. No 10-year cd's. No chance of an increase in the investment unlike the parking fees or any other flexible rent stream you invest in. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's right - which is why I don't think the posts have been correct in calling the deal as presented a 10% rate of return to the investor. The math below proves its 10%. That was a given by you. Any rate would work back and forward. Just giving you the math to figure it for yourself. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
OK hold on - let me explain one example is 8.3 million tied up for 10 years. your 5% example. you get 5% on 8.3 each year or $415,000 The example i gave is 8.3 million up front like your example, but you receive 1.34 million each year that you can then re-invest in something else. SO, it is a better stream of cash flows Trust me on this one, i do this for a living --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's right - which is why I don't think the posts have been correct in calling the deal as presented a 10% rate of return to the investor. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright justifiedright@ wrote: So if I put 8.3 million in a safe investment vehicle with 5% compounded annually, how much would I have at the end of 10 years? $ amount X (1 + i)^n i = rate of interest n = compounding periods Let's you find the compound interest factor The answer using your numbers $8.3M X (1 +5%)^10 $8.3M X 1.628895 $13.519825M Go in reverse. What is the present value of $13.519825 to be received in 10 years assuming a 5% interest rate. Present value factor is reciprocal 1/(1+i)^n $13.519825M X 1/(1+5%)^10 $13.519825M X .613913 = $8.3M Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's right - which is why I don't think the posts have been correct in calling the deal as presented a 10% rate of return to the investor. Your example used 5%. All I was doing is showing you the math. It proves out back and forth whatever rate you use. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
2 plus 2 is still 4 no matter what you do or don't do for a living. I've had to put together many deals involving the present value of dollars received later (that's me sticking to the law as the other Dan said - he just forgot to inquire what type of law). It doesn't make a bit of difference what either of us do or how many times we've done it. 2 plus 2 still has to equal 4. You are not going to get an investor to hand you 8.3 million for the right to (maybe) receive 13.3 million over 10 years, when he can safely make the same money in a CD in the same period of time with no risk and no administration costs. In real world terms, Asbury Park would have to ask for a great deal less than 8.3 million. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK hold on - let me explain one example is 8.3 million tied up for 10 years. your 5% example. you get 5% on 8.3 each year or $415,000 The example i gave is 8.3 million up front like your example, but you receive 1.34 million each year that you can then re-invest in something else. SO, it is a better stream of cash flows Trust me on this one, i do this for a living --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright justifiedright@ wrote: That's right - which is why I don't think the posts have been correct in calling the deal as presented a 10% rate of return to the investor. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright justifiedright@ wrote: So if I put 8.3 million in a safe investment vehicle with 5% compounded annually, how much would I have at the end of 10 years? $ amount X (1 + i)^n i = rate of interest n = compounding periods Let's you find the compound interest factor The answer using your numbers $8.3M X (1 +5%)^10 $8.3M X 1.628895 $13.519825M Go in reverse. What is the present value of $13.519825 to be received in 10 years assuming a 5% interest rate. Present value factor is reciprocal 1/(1+i)^n $13.519825M X 1/(1+5%)^10 $13.519825M X .613913 = $8.3M Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2 plus 2 is still 4 no matter what you do or don't do for a living. You are not going to get an investor to hand you 8.3 million for the right to (maybe) receive 13.3 million over 10 years, Ever go to AC? Or the track? I've only seen one deal in NYC in our office over $100m. No way. No one will ever buy it (actaully lease it) Impoosible. Guess what. Someone did buy it. Then they resold double the money. Never guess how someone sees an investment. Instead of guessing what it's worth, could be worth and what it's worth to you and me in our little world of cd's and bonds, let a professional parking company come in and make a proposal. And no need to spend $100k to do a study or hire a consultant. Just invite a couple people in and let them make a presentation. It's their job to study the city as is today and predict the future. Those parking spaces are just spread out over a given area. No ramps, no walls but the POTENTIAL to generate a stream of income- just like buying a building that holds parking spaces. $25k a spot is probbly cheaper then buying a parking garage... That is, if you can find a parking garage for sale under $25k per spot. Do it for 75 or 50, there's kicker's in the contracts that would adjust so no one feels left out. In 75 years I rally don't care what happens. Cars should be electric by then (ford just figured it out) or the hell knows what. And dan used the word blow it. I used the term piss it away. Use it for severance pay. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] City Council Meetings Tonight - Agendas
Friends of Asbury Park: I am writing to inform you that the Asbury Park City Council will be meeting today, Wednesday, December 3, 2008. The Executive Session begins at 5pm, however this is not open to the public. The Workshop Session begins at 6pm and the Regular Meeting begins at 7pm, these are both open to the public. I have included the meeting agendas below and I encourage you to attend. I hope this finds you well. Peace, James W. Keady, Councilman City of Asbury Park, NJ ASBURY PARK CITY COUNCIL EXECUTIVE SESSION MEETING AGENDA DECEMBER 3, 2008 5PM CLOSED TO THE PUBLIC I. Contract Negotiations a.Subsequent Redevelopers Agreement with MadisonAsbury Retail, LLC (Hastie) II. Litigation a. Madison-Asbury Retail, LLC vs. City of Asbury Park b. Six Opening Avenue Eminent Domain (Aaron) c. Asbury Shores (Hastie/Aaron) d. Teicher Update (Aaron) e. First Avenue Realty vs. City of Asbury Park 213-215 First Ave. III. Personnel a. Annual Professional Appointments b. Labor-Bargaining Issues ASBURY PARK CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP SESSION MEETING AGENDA DECEMBER 3, 2008 6PM OPEN TO THE PUBLIC I. REVIEW OF REGULAR AGENDA ITEMS II. ITEMS PRESENTED BY DONALD SAMMET, REDEVELOPMENT PLANNING DIRECTOR 1. BLUESTONE PROTECTION 2. 711 BANGS AVENUE (PARKING IN BUSINESS DISTRICT) III. PAL BOXING FACILITY LOCATED ON SECOND FLOOR OF PUBLIC MAINTENANCE BUILDING - PAUL MCEVILY, INTERFAITH NEIGHBORS IV. BOARDS/COMMISSIONS APPOINTMENTS V. SPECIAL EVENT APPLICATIONS 1.CHECK-MATE ANNUAL CANDLELIGHT WALK END AT 503 ASBURY AVE. 12/01 2.MADISON MARQUETTE MUSICAL PERFORMANCES BOARDWALK 11/28 - 12/28 VI. MATTERS TO BE INTRODUCED BY CITY COUNCIL VII. MATTERS TO BE INTRODUCED BY CITY ATTORNEY VIII. MATTERS TO BE INTRODUCED BY CITY MANAGER IX. MATTERS TO BE INTRODUCED BY ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER ASBURY PARK CITY COUNCIL REGULAR PUBLIC MEETING AGENDA DECEMBER 3, 2008 - 7PM OPEN TO THE PUBLIC SILENT PRAYER/MOMENT OF REFLECTION SALUTE TO THE FLAGANNOUNCEMENT BY MAYOR SANDERS as to compliance with Open Public Meetings Act, Chapter 231, P.L. 1975 ,that adequate notice of this meeting has been provided in the following manner: The Annual Notice was forwarded to the Asbury Park Press, The Coaster, and Star Ledger on December 27, 2007, and posted on the City bulletin board the same date. All notices are on file with the City Clerk. 1. PUBLIC PARTICIPATION 2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: RM 11/12/08 (2 B submitted). 3. PAYROLL RESOLUTION: 4. BILL RESOLUTION + Inservco 5. APPLICATIONS/LIQUOR LICENSES: (a) Membership NJ Firemen's Assoc. Carney Conklin (b) Amend Bingo Post #346 add workers (c) Liquor license transfer The Deep from AP Ventures to Asbury Restaurant IV 1000 Ocean Avenue. 6. RESOLUTIONS: (a) Appointments/Re-appointments. (b) Senior Center temporary rental agreement. (c) Items from Tax Collector 700 Mattison Avenue. (d) Item of revenue for budget - $81,666.30 (e) Item of revenue for budget - $68,044.00 (f) Retain Services Shore Point Architecture - $7,900. (g) Retain services Shore Point Architecture - $15,833. (h) Budget Transfer. (i) Purchase Environmental testing equip - $6,250.00 (j) Retain Services Brilliant Lewis Environmental Services Firehouse - $4,695.00 7. ORDINANCES: Introduction (a) Traffic Signal Kingsley and Third Avenue. (b) Traffic Signal Kingsley and Seventh Avenue. ORDINANCES: Public Hearing Advertised The Coaster: (a) 11/6 Re: Vacating/Dedicating portion of Block 222. (b) 11/13 Replacing traffic signals on Grand Avenue with Stop Signs (c) 11/20 Re: permit balconettes at 205-09 Bond St. 8. DECISION ON BIDS: Received 11/14/08: (a). Sludge Transport and Disposal. (b) Supply Liquid Sodium Hypochlorite. (c) To be received 12/1/08 Concrete and Sidewalk Improvements Southwest. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2 plus 2 is still 4 no matter what you do or don't do for a living. I've had to put together many deals involving the present value of dollars received later (that's me sticking to the law as the other Dan said - he just forgot to inquire what type of law). It doesn't make a bit of difference what either of us do or how many times we've done it. 2 plus 2 still has to equal 4. You are not going to get an investor to hand you 8.3 million for the right to (maybe) receive 13.3 million over 10 years, when he can safely make the same money in a CD in the same period of time with no risk and no administration costs. In real world terms, Asbury Park would have to ask for a great deal less than 8.3 million. You are going to have to start doing competency hearings soon. Your numbers are based upon 5%. Dan S (the other one) used 10% return and that would correlate into $21.538M in 10 years. But this is not exactly Dan's example. It is what you set up in your question. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 dsher4@ wrote: OK hold on - let me explain one example is 8.3 million tied up for 10 years. your 5% example. you get 5% on 8.3 each year or $415,000 The example i gave is 8.3 million up front like your example, but you receive 1.34 million each year that you can then re-invest in something else. SO, it is a better stream of cash flows Trust me on this one, i do this for a living --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright justifiedright@ wrote: That's right - which is why I don't think the posts have been correct in calling the deal as presented a 10% rate of return to the investor. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright justifiedright@ wrote: So if I put 8.3 million in a safe investment vehicle with 5% compounded annually, how much would I have at the end of 10 years? $ amount X (1 + i)^n i = rate of interest n = compounding periods Let's you find the compound interest factor The answer using your numbers $8.3M X (1 +5%)^10 $8.3M X 1.628895 $13.519825M Go in reverse. What is the present value of $13.519825 to be received in 10 years assuming a 5% interest rate. Present value factor is reciprocal 1/(1+i)^n $13.519825M X 1/(1+5%)^10 $13.519825M X .613913 = $8.3M Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have an idea to add some revenues to those meters. Sell ads on them. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
..thanks to both dan's, werner and jr... here's another take from an old article: Walk along the water and see what an American beach resort once was, and what it can become. A crumbling casino teeters on stilts over the sand. Hollow shells of defunct motels lie like discarded crab casings, eroding in the salt air. A carousel sits idle by the boardwalk. Beachside avenues are lined with rusted parking meters; they haven't seen a quarter since a quarter was a dime. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and you can pick up the phone and talk to the muni's who have leased their spaces to a pro company and ask how's it going..? Or take the bull by the horns and run your own meters and figure it out. If the current meters are difficult, then stick single pole or more stations or smaller meter zones. I have an idea to add some revenues to those meters. And charge for the meters in the zone. People will still come. They always did. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: City Council Meetings Tonight - Agendas
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, jwkeady [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: II. Litigation a. Madison-Asbury Retail, LLC vs. City of Asbury Park Honeymoon is over I guess. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: City Council Meetings Tonight - Agendas
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, jwkeady [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ORDINANCES: Public Hearing Advertised The Coaster: (a) 11/6 Re: Vacating/Dedicating portion of Block 222. This is the Triangle/townhouses folks. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: City Council Meetings Tonight - Agendas
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, jwkeady james.keady@ wrote: II. Litigation a. Madison-Asbury Retail, LLC vs. City of Asbury Park Honeymoon is over I guess. That's why you need parking meter revenues, especially at night. 1. Pay for litigiation 2. Pay for police 3. Pay for Fire dept. anytime there was an event in AP - - at CH or Paramount, the promoter paid a fee in addition to rental. Find an old contract. Tax ticket sales over $25. 2.5% Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakdorf@ wrote: I have an idea to add some revenues to those meters. Sell ads on them. not a bad idea, but not it. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You are going to have to start doing competency hearings soon. Your numbers are based upon 5%. Dan S (the other one) used 10% return and that would correlate into $21.538M in 10 years. But this is not exactly Dan's example. It is what you set up in your question. No, I used what the other Dan S set up. Here are his assumptions from his post number 43285: The present value of that stream of free cash flows (assuming a 10 year deal with a 10% rate of return to the investor would be 8.258 million. After 10 years the meters would revert back to the town's ownership. So using those numbers an investor would be willing to put up 8.258 million to the town up front for the right to collect 1.344 million per year for 10 years. That's when I questioned his calculation of present value. You said it was already in there. I believe his calculation to be off by a lot. My proof is that the investor could put the 8.3 million in a CD at 5% for the same 10 years and get to the same 13.4 million. There is no way in the real world you can convince an investor that the assumptions he used equates to a 10% rate of return. I believe the problem is using 8.3 million as the present value. Way too high. Right back to my original point. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and most deals, to justify costs, raise the rate to what it's worth. Cape may: With the following exceptions, parking meters are in effect May 1 to October 31, every day, from 10:00 AM to 10:00 PM. All meters are 25 cents per fifteen minutes and stand-aolne meters only accept quarters. Multi-meters also accept credit cards. Change is available from several businesses and at beach tag sales booths, during the beach season. The City provides a five (5) minute grace period on all meters, before an overtime violation occurs. 1. Marketing: 25 cents per 15 minutes That eqauls $1.00 per hour. 2. Marketing: The city provides a five minute grace period. 3. Limited hours 10 am to 10 pm. AP should go into 2 am. in the zone. that's when the bars are crowded and the most services of the police are required. Pay for it. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oy vey! No, I used what the other Dan S set up. Here are his assumptions from his post number 43285: The present value of that stream of free cash flows (assuming a 10 year deal with a 10% rate of return to the investor would be 8.258 million. 10% (not 5% like you said) After 10 years the meters would revert back to the town's ownership. So using those numbers an investor would be willing to put up 8.258 million to the town up front for the right to collect 1.344 million per year for 10 years. I reiterate, $8.3M grows to $13M+ in 10 years at 5% (your rate) $8.3M grows to $21M+ in 10 years at 10% (Dan's rate) What is the problem? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright justifiedright@ wrote: Oy vey! No, I used what the other Dan S set up. Here are his assumptions from his post number 43285: The present value of that stream of free cash flows (assuming a 10 year deal with a 10% rate of return to the investor would be 8.258 million. 10% (not 5% like you said) After 10 years the meters would revert back to the town's ownership. So using those numbers an investor would be willing to put up 8.258 million to the town up front for the right to collect 1.344 million per year for 10 years. I reiterate, $8.3M grows to $13M+ in 10 years at 5% (your rate) $8.3M grows to $21M+ in 10 years at 10% (Dan's rate) What is the problem? The problem is he claims they will see only 13.4 million, not the 21 million you bring up. That's why I'm pointing out that his assumption of a 10% rate of return is wrong. Back to the beginning again: To get to a 10% rate of return, the present value rate will have to be dropped considerably in his assumptions. Or sell it at 5% - but since that is what you can get in a CD, you won't sell it to anyone. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
Geez, i went to a meeting for an hour and here is where we are. One major mistake is being made in these calculations. 10% grows to 21.5 million if you never take the money out and you leave it compounding for all ten years. My example has a payout each and every year and that money does not get re-invested. It is the difference between the return when DISTRIBUTED in a stream over time versus when it is left alone for 10 years. The fact that you have access to the cash in each and every year is different than the first example. Make Sense? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright justifiedright@ wrote: Oy vey! No, I used what the other Dan S set up. Here are his assumptions from his post number 43285: The present value of that stream of free cash flows (assuming a 10 year deal with a 10% rate of return to the investor would be 8.258 million. 10% (not 5% like you said) After 10 years the meters would revert back to the town's ownership. So using those numbers an investor would be willing to put up 8.258 million to the town up front for the right to collect 1.344 million per year for 10 years. I reiterate, $8.3M grows to $13M+ in 10 years at 5% (your rate) $8.3M grows to $21M+ in 10 years at 10% (Dan's rate) What is the problem? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Geez, i went to a meeting for an hour and here is where we are. One major mistake is being made in these calculations. And I do not think you ever said anything about $13M+ originally. Again it was Tom's question and example of what $8.3M would be worth in 10 years at 5%. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
That is correct. If you reinvested the 1.4 million received every year back into an investment that yielded 10% you would get the 20+ million. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 dsher4@ wrote: Geez, i went to a meeting for an hour and here is where we are. One major mistake is being made in these calculations. 10% grows to 21.5 million if you never take the money out and you leave it compounding for all ten years. My example has a payout each and every year and that money does not get re-invested. It is the difference between the return when DISTRIBUTED in a stream over time versus when it is left alone for 10 years. The fact that you have access to the cash in each and every year is different than the first example. Make Sense? I know that, which is why I posted interest on interest to you before and why I said it what Tom was saying was not equal to what you set up (although as you implied the cash flow taken each year is available to be reinvested each year and presumably at the same required IRR). Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
So 2+2 = 4 and it does matter what i do :) Sorry but i had to, that one hurt my feelings. Its bad enough we are in a bear market but then you tell me im a moron, hurts my ego :) --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That is correct. If you reinvested the 1.4 million received every year back into an investment that yielded 10% you would get the 20+ million. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 dsher4@ wrote: Geez, i went to a meeting for an hour and here is where we are. One major mistake is being made in these calculations. 10% grows to 21.5 million if you never take the money out and you leave it compounding for all ten years. My example has a payout each and every year and that money does not get re-invested. It is the difference between the return when DISTRIBUTED in a stream over time versus when it is left alone for 10 years. The fact that you have access to the cash in each and every year is different than the first example. Make Sense? I know that, which is why I posted interest on interest to you before and why I said it what Tom was saying was not equal to what you set up (although as you implied the cash flow taken each year is available to be reinvested each year and presumably at the same required IRR). Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Geez, i went to a meeting for an hour and here is where we are. One major mistake is being made in these calculations. 10% grows to 21.5 million if you never take the money out and you leave it compounding for all ten years. My example has a payout each and every year and that money does not get re-invested. It is the difference between the return when DISTRIBUTED in a stream over time versus when it is left alone for 10 years. The fact that you have access to the cash in each and every year is different than the first example. Make Sense? That means the 50 cents you realize in year 1 of the deal is worth 10x more than the 50 cents you realize in year 10, because you can re-invest it for an additional 10 years. So if you took the 1.3 million and bought a CD each year at 5%, would you make it up to the 21 million by the time you were done? I think you might fall short. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Geez, i went to a meeting for an hour and here is where we are. One major mistake is being made in these calculations. The best way to sum it up, those spaces are worth money - either to the city of Asbury Park or to a parking management investment fund. There's all different arguments about the value of a business that generates sales or the value of income producing property. Yes, every guy that calls up wants a 10% return. So do I. Actaully, if you speak to some harcore investors, they will ask why do only want a 10% return, what, you have no ambition...? But that was BEFORE the stock market tanked... Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And I do not think you ever said anything about $13M+ originally. Again it was Tom's question and example of what $8.3M would be worth in 10 years at 5%. Dan how many times do I have to re-post his assumptions to convince you that the $13M+ was his and not mine? Here it is again. Please read the last line: Here are his assumptions from his post number 43285: The present value of that stream of free cash flows (assuming a 10 year deal with a 10% rate of return to the investor would be 8.258 million. After 10 years the meters would revert back to the town's ownership. So using those numbers an investor would be willing to put up 8.258 million to the town up front for the right to collect 1.344 million per year for 10 years. Isn't 1.34 million per year times 10 years 13.4 million? That's his numbers - not mine. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
Not exactly. the 50 cents you receive in year one can be reinvestd at 10% for 9 years. So that grows to $1.17. Then you receive another fifty cents in year two and that grows for 8 years to $1.07. Etc.. etc. That means the 50 cents you realize in year 1 of the deal is worth 10x more than the 50 cents you realize in year 10, because you can re-invest it for an additional 10 years. So if you took the 1.3 million and bought a CD each year at 5%, would you make it up to the 21 million by the time you were done? I think you might fall short. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
You can't just multiply 1.34 million by 10 because that assumes you never re-invest each years payout. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: And I do not think you ever said anything about $13M+ originally. Again it was Tom's question and example of what $8.3M would be worth in 10 years at 5%. Dan how many times do I have to re-post his assumptions to convince you that the $13M+ was his and not mine? Here it is again. Please read the last line: Here are his assumptions from his post number 43285: The present value of that stream of free cash flows (assuming a 10 year deal with a 10% rate of return to the investor would be 8.258 million. After 10 years the meters would revert back to the town's ownership. So using those numbers an investor would be willing to put up 8.258 million to the town up front for the right to collect 1.344 million per year for 10 years. Isn't 1.34 million per year times 10 years 13.4 million? That's his numbers - not mine. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So 2+2 = 4 and it does matter what i do :) Sorry but i had to, that one hurt my feelings. Its bad enough we are in a bear market but then you tell me im a moron, hurts my ego :) Hurt your feelings? It wasn't about you. I have a personal philosophy about conversations that I've posted here before and I'll share with you now: NO ONE is right about something because of who they are, what they do or what they've read. They are right because they are right, independent of the above. Here's an example: I have a cold. I go see a doctor. He says I have a cold. Is he right because of who he is, what he does or what he's read? No. He's right because I do have a fucking cold. If he said I didn't have one, he'd be wrong, regardless of who he is, what he does or what he has read. See what I mean? We are right or wrong because we are right or wrong, having nothing to do with who we are, what we do or what we have read. That's why I hate personalizing in these posts so much. Personalizing in never relevant to an issue. If you turn out to be right here disher, it's because your numbers are right - not because you are who you are. That said, I still don't think your numbers add up using the assumptions you first posted. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
--put out a RFP (Request for Proposals) to bid for leasing and management rights of the City of Asbury Park Municpal Parking System which is any current approved pay to park stalls and additional paid parking stalls in the future. The succesful bidder shall also have the right to propose additional parking facilitiesat their expense Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
I was making a JOKE. Lighten up Francis --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 dsher4@ wrote: So 2+2 = 4 and it does matter what i do :) Sorry but i had to, that one hurt my feelings. Its bad enough we are in a bear market but then you tell me im a moron, hurts my ego :) Hurt your feelings? It wasn't about you. I have a personal philosophy about conversations that I've posted here before and I'll share with you now: NO ONE is right about something because of who they are, what they do or what they've read. They are right because they are right, independent of the above. Here's an example: I have a cold. I go see a doctor. He says I have a cold. Is he right because of who he is, what he does or what he's read? No. He's right because I do have a fucking cold. If he said I didn't have one, he'd be wrong, regardless of who he is, what he does or what he has read. See what I mean? We are right or wrong because we are right or wrong, having nothing to do with who we are, what we do or what we have read. That's why I hate personalizing in these posts so much. Personalizing in never relevant to an issue. If you turn out to be right here disher, it's because your numbers are right - not because you are who you are. That said, I still don't think your numbers add up using the assumptions you first posted. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was making a JOKE. Lighten up Francis Didn't know that. I just didn't want you thinking I was peronsonalizing. You know I don't do that. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not exactly. the 50 cents you receive in year one can be reinvestd at 10% for 9 years. So that grows to $1.17. Then you receive another fifty cents in year two and that grows for 8 years to $1.07. Etc.. etc. Now we are getting somewhere. That's what I just put in the last post. Even if you reinvested each year at 5% you wont get to a 10% total return on investment, which is why I'm still disagreeing with you back to the starting line with your assumptions. Now as to this post here - where is this wonderful 10% investment vehicle you are so easily slipping the money into each year? I was using real world terms. The other Dan posted that the average CD is 3.77. If we are going to assume the easy availability of a 10% vehicle, then revise my initial CD purchase from a 5 to a 10%. Now your numbers fall really short. Stick to real world terms - and your assumptions don't add up. You won't get an investor interested using them. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a cold. I go see a doctor. He says I have a cold. Is he right because of who he is, what he does or what he's read? No. He's right because I do have a fucking cold. If he said I didn't have one, he'd be wrong, regardless of who he is, what he does or what he has read. If you knew you had a cold, why would you go to the doctor? To argue with him if he said you didn't? Or because you had no copayment or a low copayment and ahd to waste his time or to get a prescription because it's chepaer then buying over the counter? That's the system. If we had a cold when we were kids, it was chicken soup and St. Josephs and we still got told to get up and get moving. That's because the chicken soup, fat and all, is what worked. Never needed a doctor for that. You bump your head, chicken soup. You lost a game, chicken soup. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Stick to real world terms - and your assumptions don't add up. You won't get an investor interested using them. different methods to different folks. If someone likes parking lots and future fees, it's different thena guy buying a four family house. Maybe there's a company that's more creative in parking management or promoting events. Events bring people to town. When people come to town, they park. So if you owned a company that had the rights to say 1500 spaces around a facility that can hold a concert for 4,000 people every day, you might co-sponsor a show or maybe put on fireworks every week to bring people to your business - those 1500 spaces.. Unless you know how the other guy actaully counts his money, never assume what's right for them. They'll fool you. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
NO NO NO - Putting up 8.4 million and then receiving 1.44 million per year is a 10% return. And by the way, you can buy extremely high quality corporate bond at 9-10% right now. So that is a real world example. And remember these municipal bonds would be tax free. And investors might require a 15% return for a high risk like Asbury. I was just using assumptions to make a point not saying 10% would be what the market would require to purchase these bonds. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 dsher4@ wrote: Not exactly. the 50 cents you receive in year one can be reinvestd at 10% for 9 years. So that grows to $1.17. Then you receive another fifty cents in year two and that grows for 8 years to $1.07. Etc.. etc. Now we are getting somewhere. That's what I just put in the last post. Even if you reinvested each year at 5% you wont get to a 10% total return on investment, which is why I'm still disagreeing with you back to the starting line with your assumptions. Now as to this post here - where is this wonderful 10% investment vehicle you are so easily slipping the money into each year? I was using real world terms. The other Dan posted that the average CD is 3.77. If we are going to assume the easy availability of a 10% vehicle, then revise my initial CD purchase from a 5 to a 10%. Now your numbers fall really short. Stick to real world terms - and your assumptions don't add up. You won't get an investor interested using them. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And investors might require a 15% return for a high risk like Asbury. and again, a creative company might get MORE, applying their knowledge and marketing to something so simple as a parking spot. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: NO NO NO - Putting up 8.4 million and then receiving 1.44 million per year is a 10% return. We're just going to have to have different conclusions when we write our prospectus;-) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: So back to the budget and leasing Parking...
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Let's put the whose right and wrong aside. Is that a good idea? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: So back to the budget and leasing Parking...
I am going to let this discussion go for now in light of these thoughts. I am not in the law profession so i do not make statements about that profession because it is not my core competency. I am in the investment profession and that is my core competency. I also have multiple models that do these calculations for me. Compound interest and rate of return are some of the most basic concepts in my business. I feel i have a firm grasp on them Maybe i'm wrong in how i'm calculating this but that means i have been making wrong math calculations for the hedge fund that i have been working at for 15 years. The 10% assumption was an example, not a real world prospectus. We could surely debate those issues, and i actually think the return would have to be 15%+ to an investor. So that is a debateable topic, how compound interest works is not. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakdorf@ wrote: Let's put the whose right and wrong aside. Is that a good idea? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: So back to the budget and leasing Parking...
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakdorf@ wrote: Let's put the whose right and wrong aside. Is that a good idea? yea. The City should produce the RFP and see what becomes of it. There's time and options. The City can say look at how much money we took in without really implementing the sytem 100% and not having the full knowledge of how to implement the system and public outcry of having to fifty cents and hour to park. And we also backed down because the developer complained we were charging Now take that parking revenue generated in a short time with a boardwalk only half open in the summer (closing in the summer at 9pm when most boardwalks are first getting running..) and run those numbers out How much would you pay today for that anticipated income stream. And add another factor in - $1.00 per hour peak season, then .50 hour all other times. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: So back to the budget and leasing Parking...
The last word is yours, dsher4. Thanks for posting this stuff today and I hope you don't let my examination of it, right or wrong, dissuade you from posting about it again. It was a good discussion. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am going to let this discussion go for now in light of these thoughts. I am not in the law profession so i do not make statements about that profession because it is not my core competency. I am in the investment profession and that is my core competency. I also have multiple models that do these calculations for me. Compound interest and rate of return are some of the most basic concepts in my business. I feel i have a firm grasp on them Maybe i'm wrong in how i'm calculating this but that means i have been making wrong math calculations for the hedge fund that i have been working at for 15 years. The 10% assumption was an example, not a real world prospectus. We could surely debate those issues, and i actually think the return would have to be 15%+ to an investor. So that is a debateable topic, how compound interest works is not. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright justifiedright@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakdorf@ wrote: Let's put the whose right and wrong aside. Is that a good idea? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: So back to the budget and leasing Parking...
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am going to let this discussion go for now in light of these thoughts. Thanks for providing, as usual, real world math. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Proof that Nancy Shields Reads This
Did you ever think maybe Nancy talks to a lot of people? Did you ever think that maybe someone sent her a copy of the letter? So what if she reads what is on this board. **Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dpicid=aolcom40vanityncid=emlcntaolcom0010) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Proof that Nancy Shields Reads This
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Did you ever think maybe Nancy talks to a lot of people? Did you ever think that maybe someone sent her a copy of the letter? So what if she reads what is on this board. So what? I would want to know if the only daily paper in 2 counties was following what I write. That so what - right there. **Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dpicid=aolcom40vanityncid=emlcntaolcom0010) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] new years eve at restaurant plan b
New Year's Eve At Restaurant plan b 705 cookman ave Asbury park nj,732-807-4710 5 course dinner Champagne toast Live music with Josh Zuckerman 75.00 Per person VEGAN 5 Course Available, Please advise at reservation Gratuity and tax not included Reservations start at 7 PM last seating at 10:30 PM (No discounts or coupons apply) Also join us for After New Year's Eve brunch 10 am to 3pm Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [AsburyPark] Re: Stepping Down from City Council
Jennifer: You are correct! Since the city holds nonpartisan elections, the seating City Council members will accept applications to fill the position Jim is leaving. They will then select a replacement, who will have to run for a full term (if they so choose) in the next city election. If we held partisan elections it would play out a little different with the Council still making the final selection. Michael Michael W. Brim 321 Sunset Avenue, Unit 5F Asbury Park NJ 07712-5550 Cell: 732-996-8160 From: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jennifer Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 11:58 AM To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Stepping Down from City Council Ed Johnson was appointed to the council when Kate Melina resigned. That was in January 2005 and Ed was elected in the May 2005 election. I would guess that a similar process is going to happen. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com mailto:AsburyPark%40yahoogroups.com , justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What happends next? Do the councilmembers fill the seat, is there a special election or does the seat stay vacant until May? Does it make a difference if the resignation is effective before or after the new year since it is an election year? If no one knows off hand I'll try to look it up. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [AsburyPark] Re: Stepping Down from City Council
Jennifer: You are correct! Since the city holds nonpartisan elections, the seating City Council members will accept applications to fill the position Jim is leaving. They will then select a replacement, who will have to run for a full term (if they so choose) in the next city election. If we held partisan elections it would play out a little different with the Council still making the final selection. Michael Michael W. Brim 321 Sunset Avenue, Unit 5F Asbury Park NJ 07712-5550 Cell: 732-996-8160 From: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jennifer Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 11:58 AM To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Stepping Down from City Council Ed Johnson was appointed to the council when Kate Melina resigned. That was in January 2005 and Ed was elected in the May 2005 election. I would guess that a similar process is going to happen. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com mailto:AsburyPark%40yahoogroups.com , justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What happends next? Do the councilmembers fill the seat, is there a special election or does the seat stay vacant until May? Does it make a difference if the resignation is effective before or after the new year since it is an election year? If no one knows off hand I'll try to look it up. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Made in the USA ???
This is a cute one. and very true... so much for the America of the past. Joe Smith started the day early, having set his : alarm clock (MADE IN JAPAN ) for 6 a.m. While his coffeepot (MADE IN CHINA ) was perking, he shaved with his electric razor (MADE IN HONG KONG ). He put on a dress shirt (MADE IN SRI LANKA ), designer jeans (MADE IN SINGAPORE ) and tennis shoes (MADE IN KOREA ) After cooking his breakfast in his new electric skillet (MADE IN INDIA ) he sat down with his calculator (MADE IN MEXICO ) to see how much he could spend today. After setting his watch (MADE IN TAIWAN ) to the radio (MADE IN INDIA ) he got in his car (MADE IN GERMANY ) filled it with GAS (from Saudi Arabia ) and continued his search for a good paying AMERICAN JOB. At the end of yet another discouraging and fruitless day checking his Computer (Made In Malaysia ), Joe decided to relax for a while. He put on his sandals (MADE IN BRAZIL ) poured himself a glass of wine (MADE IN FRANCE ) and turned on his TV (MADE IN INDONESIA ), and then wondered why he can't find a good paying job in AMERICA . Ya gotta Keep this one circulating, please.! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
