Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] New Meridian CD player Transporter question
michael123;581558 Wrote: back to the original question: Transporter inputs are not quite good and operating them (switching between coax and network feed) is not convenient. But you shall try this! I think I will probably just plug it directly into the amp - I've spent the last few years trying to get my digital system to match my analogue quality gear, now I am about to up the the anti with the G08.2 ! back to the drawing board. But I love the convenience of a digital library. -- pkfox When the going gets weird - the weird turn pro. Hunter S Thompson CD's - EAC/Grip - ReadyNas NV - CAT5 - Sonicwall - TP - Meridian 551 - Monitor Audio Gold - Me :-) pkfox's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5346 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82483 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] How much can transport mechanism affect SQ?
Digital transports have a very small effect on sound compared to many other changes you could make. I'd spend the money on an audio pro consultant to advise you on room acoustics, and/or on room treatments. If you don't want to do that and like your speakers, you could try using the transporter as a source (i.e. as a DAC). First, try bypassing your DAC and using the duet's DAC. Can you tell the difference? Are you sure? Because if the difference is subtle or non-existent, it's probably not worth spending much on. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82520 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Most bang for buck? Add DAC to SB or buy Touch?
ncarver;577406 Wrote: Got lots of suggestions about really good sounding hi-res tracks, but not a single person claimed to have done comparisons and been able to hear a difference between the two versions of the same track. I'm not sure that's a valid argument in this kind of debate. After all, how many people have done blind, level-matched comparisons between different DACs and been able to tell the difference? As far as I can tell the answer is zero*. So going by that, the OP should stick with the SB3 and save for some better speakers. *You can sometimes tell the difference by the background noise level, if you turn the system up high and put your ear close to a tweeter (while it's not playing, or playing silence). The same goes for 16 versus 24 bit - under artificial circumstances (extremely high volume or very close to the tweeter) you can hear the difference in noise levels, on the nearly silent parts of some recordings. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82067 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] TP-Tact-Dac minimal jitter?
Robin Bowes;581544 Wrote: Is that normal for Toslink? Are they usually so poor? Is there a trick to getting them to plug in properly? Just to echo what Phil said, make sure you can see light coming from one end when the other is plugged into the active source, and make sure the plug clicks and locks lightly into place when you push it in. I use Toslink to connect my bluray player to my DAC, and in the past for various other connections, and never had any trouble with it (although the plugs are slightly tricky). I'm using a cheap cable, since I don't think it makes any difference. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82171 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Most bang for buck? Add DAC to SB or buy Touch?
opaqueice;581655 Wrote: I'm not sure that's a valid argument in this kind of debate. After all, how many people have done blind, level-matched comparisons between different DACs and been able to tell the difference? As far as I can tell the answer is zero*. So going by that, the OP should stick with the SB3 and save for some better speakers. Without trying to start another pointless DBT debate I would just like to ask a simple question to the pro DBT people on this forum. Here goes: Part 1 - Background info: Those in favor of DBT are always pointing to the fact by not testing via DBT the listener is likely to heavily influenced by other external factors which have nothing to do with the sound, such as cost and cosmetics. In other words, they will hear differences where there may or may not be differences because they WANT to hear differences. Part 2 - Question: If people are capable of hearing differences where there may or may not be any differences due to tricks of the mind or whatever one might call it, is it not equally possible that the pro DBT people are NOT hearing differences where there may or may not be any differences due to the same tricks of the mind or whatever one might call it? In other words if people can fool themselves into hearing differences to validate their beliefs then isn't just as likely that people can fool themselves into NOT hearing differences to validate their beliefs? Okay now I'm going to go hide under my desk and wait until it's safe to come out. -- ralphpnj Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels - Snatch - The Transporter - Transporter 2 (oops) - Touch 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82067 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Most bang for buck? Add DAC to SB or buy Touch?
ralphpnj;581660 Wrote: Without trying to start another pointless DBT debate I would just like to ask a simple question to the pro DBT people on this forum. Here goes: Part 1 - Background info: Those in favor of DBT are always pointing to the fact by not testing via DBT the listener is likely to heavily influenced by other external factors which have nothing to do with the sound, such as cost and cosmetics. In other words, they will hear differences where there may or may not be differences because they WANT to hear differences. Part 2 - Question: If people are capable of hearing differences where there may or may not be any differences due to tricks of the mind or whatever one might call it, is it not equally possible that the pro DBT people are NOT hearing differences where there may or may not be any differences due to the same tricks of the mind or whatever one might call it? In other words if people can fool themselves into hearing differences to validate their beliefs then isn't just as likely that people can fool themselves into NOT hearing differences to validate their beliefs? Sure, it's possible. It's also very easy to check. The simplest way is to take someone that WANTS to hear differences, and have them try to under blind conditions. Most times that's done, they can't hear it any more. Another way is to establish hearing thresholds by changing the degree of difference until it becomes just barely inaudible. You can do that with a bunch of different people and see how much they vary. A third way is to offer a reward, like money. I doubt any pro-DBT people are so fanatical they'd try not to hear a difference when they know they'll get paid if they do :D. That's how lots of psychological data gets collected, by the way (offer money to poor college students). -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82067 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Most bang for buck? Add DAC to SB or buy Touch?
opaqueice;581672 Wrote: Sure, it's possible. Case closed. -- ralphpnj Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels - Snatch - The Transporter - Transporter 2 (oops) - Touch 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82067 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Most bang for buck? Add DAC to SB or buy Touch?
ralphpnj;581660 Wrote: In other words if people can fool themselves into hearing differences to validate their beliefs then isn't just as likely that people can fool themselves into NOT hearing differences to validate their beliefs? Yes, that's a possible outcome. But the listener then has to worry about embarrassing himself by not hearing a truly significant difference. (Many years back I remember a fellow showing off his system. He was very pleased with the spectacular sound for 15 or 20 minutes until someone pointed out one of the biwire cables to a tweeter was completely disconnected. He was stunned he hadn't noticed.) Blind testing has a very important place in science research. Anyone who ignores the issue at the level of basic research, product development or in similar situations is not doing very good science. The subjective aspects of our humanness don't suddenly come under control because the subject is audio. However, at the level of making consumer choices as to which stereo a person wants to buy, it is only as important as the ego of the buyer needs it to be. -- mlsstl mlsstl's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9598 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82067 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Most bang for buck? Add DAC to SB or buy Touch?
mlsstl;581675 Wrote: Yes, that's a possible outcome. I repeat: case closed. -- ralphpnj Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels - Snatch - The Transporter - Transporter 2 (oops) - Touch 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82067 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Most bang for buck? Add DAC to SB or buy Touch?
mlsstl;581675 Wrote: However, at the level of making consumer choices as to which stereo a person wants to buy, it is only as important as the ego of the buyer needs it to be. Exactly. ralphpnj;581673 Wrote: Case closed. When audiophiles complain about legitimate issues like overly compressed pop or the growing prevalence of crappy standards like 128 kbps MP3, they should remember the boy who cried wolf. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82067 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] How much can transport mechanism affect SQ?
Acoustic treatment aside, digital transports have tremendous influence on sound quality, but this is a function of all other system components. There are no rules in audio, you shall just try and see if you hear the difference... If jitter specs matter to you, just buy the best - CEC, or Weiss INT202 or M2Tech Evo, etc. Transporter is also a very good transport --Michael -- michael123 michael123's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=23745 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82520 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] How much can transport mechanism affect SQ?
michael123;581681 Wrote: Acoustic treatment aside, digital transports have tremendous influence on sound quality, but this is a function of all other system components. I politely but vehemently disagree, and let me add that my opinion is based on extensive testing of my own, plus the results of every controlled test ever conducted on this issue that I'm aware of. That said it's still just an opinion, and everyone is entitled to their own (and to choosing what to spend their money on). But I think it's fair for the OP to know what the range of opinions is, and what's the evidence behind them. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82520 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Spotify sound quality
I haven't used spotify, but it should be nearly impossible to tell the difference between 320 kbps lossy and lossless. I think it might be possible, but only for people that know exactly what compression artifacts to listen for. If you check out hydrogenaudio.com, there have been some extensive tests done on audibility at various compression levels (by some of the people that designed the lossy codecs in the first place). At least for LAME MP3 128 and below is very easy, 192 is possible, 256 is very hard, and 320 would require very, very careful listening if it's possible at all. So if there's really a significant difference, something is wrong somewhere. The first thing to do is try it blind, making sure volume levels are matched. If you can still tell them apart, it's time to take a look and make sure the stream really is 320, that there's no nasty transcoding going on, etc. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82484 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Most bang for buck? Add DAC to SB or buy Touch?
opaqueice;581679 Wrote: When audiophiles complain about legitimate issues like overly compressed pop or the growing prevalence of crappy standards like 128 kbps MP3, they should remember the boy who cried wolf. I don't quite understand what you're trying to say here. I really don't have that much of problem with DBT, which along with measurements and subjective listening tests is just another tool in the toolbox, but what I do object to is the slavish adherence to DBT as the be all and end all of audio testing. I feel that DBT is a little like the blind man and the elephant story - blind man feels the tail and thinks it's a snake, feels the task and thinks it's tree, feels the leg and thinks With DBT one is only testing the system and the music being used for the test - nothing more and nothing less. Change any of the components or the music and the test becomes invalid. Therefore all DBT results should be followed with a statement such as These results are only valid for these pieces of equipment playing these pieces of music or a similar disclaimer. -- ralphpnj Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels - Snatch - The Transporter - Transporter 2 (oops) - Touch 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82067 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Most bang for buck? Add DAC to SB or buy Touch?
ralphpnj;581687 Wrote: I don't quite understand what you're trying to say here. That many audiophiles obsess over imagined differences that even they cannot really hear. That makes them very easy to mock, and it marginalizes their views. As a result when a real issue of sound quality comes along it's hard to get anyone to listen. And it means that most engineers - the people that actually design and build the products audiophiles use - ignore them. With DBT one is only testing the system and the music being used for the test - nothing more and nothing less. Change any of the components or the music and the test becomes invalid. Therefore all DBT results should be followed with a statement such as These results are only valid for these pieces of equipment playing these pieces of music or a similar disclaimer. The problem with that view is that it's contradicted by evidence. If it were true, it would apply to all tests, including all science experiments (which are carried out using differing equipment in different labs on different days by different people when the earth is in a different place and the weather outside is different...). And yet, experiments teach us that the world seems to function according to predictable rules, and those rules can be isolated and studied in controlled experiments. That goes holds true for experiments in acoustics and psychoacoustics. Why audiophiles seem to think that audibility of various effects is a different category from every other phenomenon has always mystified me. But with that said, we're not talking about science - we're talking about the hobby of a few wealthy eccentrics, who are free to do anything they want. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82067 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Most bang for buck? Add DAC to SB or buy Touch?
ralphpnj;581677 Wrote: I repeat: case closed. You seem awfully anxious to close the door on an issue you brought up. Science deals far more in probabilities than absolutes. If DBTs were worthless, let's just toss all of the medicines we have today and head back to the 15th century. That's the problem with many audiophiles. They hear the tidbit that confirms their belief and then immediately discount the greater bulk that doesn't. I've even heard DBTs discounted because they are stressful because the listener is in the terrible position of making a choice. Meanwhile, the far greater and well documented peer pressure of making a choice in a sighted listening test is blithely discounted as nothing. In other words, the one-in-a-million odds are willingly accepted but the world is searched high and low for the most obscure of reasons to ignore the 99% probability. If that is case closed in your book, you're welcome to it. -- mlsstl mlsstl's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9598 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82067 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Most bang for buck? Add DAC to SB or buy Touch?
opaqueice;581689 Wrote: That many audiophiles obsess over imagined differences that even they cannot really hear. That makes them easy to mock; it marginalizes their views (note the reference to Pear cables in the label for this subforum). So when a real issue of sound quality comes along it's hard to get anyone to pay attention. True indeed and thanks for clarification. opaqueice;581689 Wrote: The problem with that view is that it's contradicted by evidence. If it were true, it would apply to all tests, including all science experiments (which are carried out using differing equipment in different labs on different days by different people when the earth is in a different place and the weather outside is different...). And yet, experiments teach us that the world seems to function according to predictable rules, and those rules can be isolated and studied in controlled experiments. That goes holds true for experiments in acoustics and psychoacoustics. Why audiophiles seem to think that audibility of various effects is a different category from every other phenomenon has always mystified me. But with that said, we're not talking about science - we're talking about the hobby of a few wealthy eccentrics, who are free to do anything they want. Again true on both parts, especially the second part. I only wish at I was a wealthy eccentric, since I may be a bit eccentric but I'm very far from wealthy! As for the first part isn't it also true the field of scientific experiments where humans are concerned that the results of these tests are often never 100%, in other words there are often subjects who fail the test even when a vast majority of those tested pass the test? One example being drug testing where getting the same result from 100% of the subjects is rarely the case. Just to further clarify my position on this matter I am often at odds with the audiophile community particularly when it comes to digital audio. All the nonsense now being spewed about these days on things like high end USB and Cat5 cables or wav versus flac files. I just don't buy into the belief that DBT is the absolute answer, as I stated earlier DBT is just another tool, a valuable tool but still just one of many tools available. -- ralphpnj Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels - Snatch - The Transporter - Transporter 2 (oops) - Touch 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82067 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Most bang for buck? Add DAC to SB or buy Touch?
mlsstl;581692 Wrote: You seem awfully anxious to close the door on an issue you brought up. Science deals far more in probabilities than absolutes. If DBTs were worthless, let's just toss all of the medicines we have today and head back to the 15th century. That's the problem with many audiophiles. They hear the tidbit that confirms their belief and then immediately discount the greater bulk that doesn't. I've even heard DBTs discounted because they are stressful because the listener is in the terrible position of making a choice. Meanwhile, the far greater and well documented peer pressure of making a choice in a sighted listening test is blithely discounted as nothing. In other words, the one-in-a-million odds are willingly accepted but the world is searched high and low for the most obscure of reasons to ignore the 99% probability. If that is case closed in your book, you're welcome to it. Please see my previous post which was being written as you were writing your post. I really don't think that we are that far apart and once again, happy listening. BTW the case closed remark was more about having you understand that even DBT can be twisted around if one chooses one's words carefully. No harm intended. -- ralphpnj Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels - Snatch - The Transporter - Transporter 2 (oops) - Touch 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82067 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Most bang for buck? Add DAC to SB or buy Touch?
ralphpnj;581694 Wrote: As for the first part isn't it also true the field of scientific experiments where humans are concerned that the results of these tests are often never 100%, in other words there are often subjects who fail the test even when a vast majority of those tested pass the test? One example being drug testing where getting the same result from 100% of the subjects is rarely the case. That's a fair point. It's true that people are hard to experiment on, highly variable, and very complicated. That's why psychology, economics, etc. are all so much less effective at predicting things than physics or chemistry. But to me, that's all the more reason to be sure one controls for bias as much as possible - if there's one thing we know for sure about people, it's that bias has a really big effect on experience. And although psychology is really complex, ears aren't nearly as much. The ear is basically a microphone, and it's got a limited sensitivity. It's a bit tough to get at that, since ears are usually connected to brains, and that complicates things, but it's not impossible. Edit: On BTW, thank you for keeping this discussion civil - no name calling, personal insults etc. By being civil I really feel that a positive exchange of ideas and information can and does occur. And happy listening! Same to you. I've been involved in my share of audiophile pissing matches in the past - I'm done now :). I have no problem at all with people making their own choices, I just find them interesting. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82067 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Most bang for buck? Add DAC to SB or buy Touch?
opaqueice;581707 Wrote: Same to you. I've been involved in my share of audiophile pissing matches in the past - I'm done now :). I have no problem at all with people making their own choices, I just find them interesting. Thank you and ditto! -- ralphpnj Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels - Snatch - The Transporter - Transporter 2 (oops) - Touch 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82067 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] How much can transport mechanism affect SQ?
I always check equipment in my system.. I published results here on forum.. Well, yes, this is all subjective. digital audio is actually an analog signal @ RF, which is not actually a square wave.. this varies between transports.. What equipment you tested BTW, on what system setup? -- michael123 michael123's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=23745 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82520 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] How much can transport mechanism affect SQ?
michael123;581713 Wrote: I always check equipment in my system.. I published results here on forum.. Well, yes, this is all subjective. OK. digital audio is actually an analog signal @ RF, which is not actually a square wave.. this varies between transports.. Yes, that's true. But the question is whether said variations result in (truly) audible differences. Of course that depends on their amplitude, spectrum, and how the DAC they go in to is designed, so one cannot make absolute statements. But the same goes for variations in the humidity in the air of one's listening room and the phase of the moon. What one can do is come to have a sense of how important these various effects are. What equipment you tested BTW, on what system setup? A fairly large variety over the years. At the moment I have a SB touch and a PS3 (mainly used for blu ray movies) feeding a Benchmark DAC 1, going into an active Linkwitz Orion system (that costs about $10K new). The amp is an ATI 12 channel (the Orions need 8 channels of amplification). The room is 25x20x9, and not very well treated acoustically. That last is by far the biggest problem the system has. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82520 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] How much can transport mechanism affect SQ?
I fully agree about acoustics RE: phases of a moon - I agree less, although a sentence before was correct IMHO :) If you have truly re-clocking asynchronous DAC, or thing like Empirical Audio in between, you will probably depend less on the transport.. -- michael123 michael123's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=23745 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82520 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] How much can transport mechanism affect SQ?
Theres many threads on the Audiophile forums which testify to the Transporter being a better transport...at least on paper - but not by anything other than a small margin, but the conscensus (to my reading) is that it is NOT worth the extra cost. Some folk on these forums (John Swenson I think it was?)even prefer the Touch as a Transport. Yup. And regarding your Caiman (I own one and love it),over on the ArtOfSound forum (I've seen you there ;)) one of the guys runs his Transporter INTO his Caiman as he likes the improvement over the Transporter the Caiman brings. My $0.02 worth.. DEFO change from a Duet, you'll never get the best from your Flacs using that. My opinion? Buy a Touch - the SPDIF out has been measured (and listened to) as being EXTREMELY good and very very close to the Transporter. Then mod the hell out of your Caiman (see AOS), and enjoy the music NOT the system. Gaz. -- Gazjam Gazjam's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18604 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82520 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Best 300 US$ DAC for Squeezebox???
Hi there! I'm a new Squeezebox-Owner and got a bit disappointed by its analog output quality. So my question to you, experienced owners: Which is the best deal for an external DAC? I have seen 100s of them on the net, and there is a nice user review for everyone of them on some forum... Some look quite nice e. g. on: http://www.audiophilechina.com/ or an extensive list on http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/161845-list-dacs-under-450-a.html Just how to know which gives the best match with the squeeezebox? I want a natural sound, mostly files ripped from CD and stored losslessly on USB HD. Good detail, good dynamics, good sound stage, good separation, good timing, or in other words, I want to close my eyes and forget about electronics... thats the main priority for me, no other features required. Thanks for your help! Diego -- diego diego's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40897 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82539 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Best 300 US$ DAC for Squeezebox???
Hmm when comparing did you fix the volume on the squeezebox to 100% ? Yep the volume works in the digital domain and also has effect on the spdif out . Turn of any Volume Adjustment/Replay Gain in the player/audio settings . Also whe compairing analog see to that they are very closely level matched, otherwise the louder source will appear to be best . If you have accurately ripped files no replay gain and volume at 100% a squeezebox is going to be a better or in most cases equal digital transport than most disc transports. 300$ dac can it really be better than the squeezebox ? it not much dosh for a dac with the respect that dac's are audiophile stuff priced accordingly against a market where the price is a part of the product it should hurt to get the best ;) Versus a thing like the Touch is very competitively priced and meant for a much broader consumer market where the price does matter a lot. -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 and assorted amps SiriuS, Classe' Primare and Dynadio speakers, Contour 4 Contour Center, and Contour 1.3SE for the rear ch. Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Miscellaneous use: Radio (with battery) I use a Controller various ir-remotes and a Eee-PC with squeezeplay to control this Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82539 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Anyone needs new Transporter ???
gizek;581258 Wrote: I guess it goes on Audiogon. hi gizek, send me an email @ yeang_chng at hotmail. can't seem to message you through the board. thanks! Yeang -- ychng ychng's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40871 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82401 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Best 300 US$ DAC for Squeezebox???
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82067 This is a similar discussion re DAC's I'm partial to use Meridian HT processors as DAC but thats me, they are overpriced for sure, but they also replace the preamp and do some other neat stuff. -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 and assorted amps SiriuS, Classe' Primare and Dynadio speakers, Contour 4 Contour Center, and Contour 1.3SE for the rear ch. Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Miscellaneous use: Radio (with battery) I use a Controller various ir-remotes and a Eee-PC with squeezeplay to control this Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82539 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Best 300 US$ DAC for Squeezebox???
Diego, I'm surprised you find the SBT's analog output unsatisfactory. I had been using a Lavry DA-10 DAC (a very highly regarded $1,000 DAC) with my SB3 when I bought the Touch. I did two weeks of back-to-back, synced and volume matched comparison between the SB3/Lavry and the Touch and could not reliably tell the difference. I ended up selling the Lavry. Perhaps my system isn't fancy enough or my aging ears have fallen too far (though I can spot lots of differences when other items are switched) but I find the analog outs of the Touch very good. I know some will spend a lot of money for that last 1 or 2%, but I can't imagine a $300 DAC offering any improvement. I'd double check setting and connections if I were you. Equipment location can also be an issue in terms of picking up radiated EMI. Make sure those are not the issue before you throw money at the project. -- mlsstl mlsstl's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9598 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82539 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Best 300 US$ DAC for Squeezebox???
I've got a $1,000 dollar DAC (a Benchmark). I prefer it to the analog out of my SB touch for two reasons: 1) I use it as a pre-amp (for the touch and for a blu ray player). It's very important that I have something in my audio chain with an analog volume control, plus I need something to switch between sources. 2) The SB3 I had prior to the touch produced some noise (correlated with display brightness) through its analog outs that was loud enough to bother me when it wasn't playing music. That's because I have an unusual active system (that amplifies any such noise). As far as sound quality goes, I doubt I could tell the difference between any of those in a level-matched test, and I have a system that most audiophiles would describe as resolving and fairly high-end. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82539 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] TP-Tact-Dac minimal jitter?
On 09/10/10 13:39, opaqueice wrote: Robin Bowes;581544 Wrote: Is that normal for Toslink? Are they usually so poor? Is there a trick to getting them to plug in properly? Just to echo what Phil said, make sure you can see light coming from one end when the other is plugged into the active source, and make sure the plug clicks and locks lightly into place when you push it in. Yes, I did that. It eventually started working when I plugged into the Transporter *after* having connected to the DEQ, or at least that's the only sense I could make of it. It seems to be working now. Is it different to AES/EBU? Is it better? I don't know, and I'm not too bothered! Both sound superb! R. -- Feed that ego and you starve the soul - Colonel J.D. Wilkes http://www.theshackshakers.com/ ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Most bang for buck? Add DAC to SB or buy Touch?
ralphpnj;581677 Wrote: I repeat: case closed.You are not reading what you don't want to read. -- Henry66 Henry66's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=38863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82067 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] How much can transport mechanism affect SQ?
opaqueice;581653 Wrote: Digital transports have a very small effect on sound compared to many other changes you could make. I'd spend the money on an audio pro consultant to advise you on room acoustics, and/or on room treatments. If you don't want to do that and like your speakers, you could try using the transporter as a source (i.e. as a DAC). First, try bypassing your DAC and using the duet's DAC. Can you tell the difference? Are you sure? Because if the difference is subtle or non-existent, it's probably not worth spending much on. The difference in sound quality between Duet's internal DAC and the Caiman DAC are staggering. We're talking night and day type of differences, and there's absolutely nothing subtle there. Now I'm curious to see if the difference between the Touch digital transport and the Transporter digital transport are substantial. If they are, it may be worth the upgrade. I've tried upgrading my power amp, but couldn't notice much substantial difference on comparative listening, so decided to attack the problem upstream, at the very source. -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82520 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] How much can transport mechanism affect SQ?
Gazjam;581734 Wrote: Theres many threads on the Audiophile forums which testify to the Transporter being a better transport...at least on paper - but not by anything other than a small margin, but the conscensus (to my reading) is that it is NOT worth the extra cost. Some folk on these forums (John Swenson I think it was?)even prefer the Touch as a Transport. Yup. And regarding your Caiman (I own one and love it),over on the ArtOfSound forum (I've seen you there ;)) one of the guys runs his Transporter INTO his Caiman as he likes the improvement over the Transporter the Caiman brings. Its subjective you see...but the Transporter HAS been compared to the Touch as a digital source, and its a pretty close run thing. Id swap my Touch for a Transporter in a second...but not because of sound quality reasons...it would look better in my rack!:) Would I pay $$$ extra for that no. Would you? Do you use balanced outputs? I dont, do you? Will you be using the Transporters digital inputs? Nope, the Caiman has plenty. Does pride of ownership matter more than value for money and absolute comparative sound quality? I'm a Scot, so value for money is more important! So, my $0.02 worth.. DEFO change from a Duet, you'll never get the best from your Flacs using that. My opinion? Buy a Touch - the SPDIF out has been measured (and listened to) as being EXTREMELY good and very very close to the Transporter. Then mod the hell out of your Caiman (see AOS), and enjoy the music. Gaz. Hey Gaz, I remember you raving about Touch last spring. It's a given, I'm getting it, just wanted to make sure to check its digital transport quality compared to the Transporter. If it turns out that Transporter is substantially better (measured as the audible improvement in the sound quality), it may be justifiable to pursue it on audiogon. As far as modding my Caiman goes, the only thing holding me back is the burn in time. I have invested a lot of patience and time in burning my Caiman in (many months of constant burn it). It was worth the trouble, as the DAC keeps producing sweeter and sweeter sound. It's uncanny (and extremely controversial, as some of my friends get visibly upset when I mention that), but hey, it works. It works miracles. I am now hearing tiny little details in the familiar music that I can't hear even if I bring the tracks over to my other friends' high end systems. Plus, the music is now fully alive, while if I switch back to the Duet's internal DAC, the music collapses into its pale and anemic shadow. Because of that, I'd hate to reset the DAC to the day one, after I mod it. Do you have any experience with the burn in time after the mods? -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82520 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] How much can transport mechanism affect SQ?
SuperQ;581597 Wrote: The Touch spdif output is supposedly better than the Duet. The is probably not worth the money as a digital transport only. However the Transporter is probably a better DAC than the one you have. The Touch may also be a better DAC than the one you have as well. While I am prepared to accept that Transporter may have a better DAC than Caiman (although I honestly doubt it), I don't think that the internal Touch DAC can touch (pun intended) Caiman. Even some of the high end DACs, that cost way more than Caiman, only surpass the Caiman in the clinical precision of the music details, but the ones I've heard lack the sheer musicality and the analog-like quality of Caiman. Caiman makes all my digital sources sound almost identical to vinyl. And that makes me extremely happy:) -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82520 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] How much can transport mechanism affect SQ?
magiccarpetride;581804 Wrote: The difference in sound quality between Duet's internal DAC and the Caiman DAC are staggering. We're talking night and day type of differences, and there's absolutely nothing subtle there. Hmm. Well, please don't take this the wrong way, but I'd love to witness a blind level-matched test where you try to tell them apart. Under normal listening conditions (normal volume, normal music) I might even be willing to bet money that you can't get (say) 5/5 correct (which ought to be trivial if it's really night and day). The only thing that makes me hesitate is that I've never heard (or heard of) Caiman before, so possibly it's some odd design that strongly distorts the sound. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82520 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Spotify sound quality
Some older Spotify tracks are still streamed at 160 kbps. That may be some of your problem. It's the newer ones that are 320 kbps. For a 320 kbps track, you should be hearing a small difference on a revealing system. If it's very large, then I would suspect a fault. -- HectorHughMunro HectorHughMunro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=16514 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82484 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
