Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why Reclock If Using Low Jitter DAC
Addendum: (to be fair) One thing I did not add to my last post and something that is obviously pertinent when discussing the Transporter, is the matter of sample rates. I only compared the TP with the Cullen-modded DAC using 44.1/16 (Redbook) sample rates. I did not listen to anything higher via the TP. I am not a big fan of up-sampling DACs (which the Cullen DAC is) and I can only imagine that higher sample rates (i.e.: 92/24, 196/24) would sound superior fed native via the TP as compared to up-sampling. Additionally, for me, the Cullen DAC and the TP fall short of true high-end playback. For that reason I am moving on. I am however, committed to staying the course with digital and music servers, as I believe continued improvements in digital hardware and the advancements in, and availability of, high sample rates will effectively bridge the gap between digital and analog playback. I also believe that Logitech/SB will continue to be an innovator. -- timequest timequest's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25640 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63796 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why Reclock If Using Low Jitter DAC
The A/B comparison was done precisely everything was matched, gain matched, same cables, etc .come on, were talking about a bunch of audiophiles here. Everyone wanted the transporter to sound better (including me). I was actually auditioning the transporter. All five of us (not one of use with less than twenty years of experience) heard an immediate difference when switching between the two aforementioned devices. Now, I tell you, I really hate to use the same old rhetoric here, but quite frankly, it was like lifting a veil. There is really no better way to explain the difference. I cant say the sound stage was bigger, I cant say that the central image was better; I wont even say that the bass was more defined. The resolution was just better. There was a difference in clarity and it was definitely not shrill, bright, or forward. The sound to all five of us was better. The Cullen Stage IV DAC is no slouch whats so hard to believe about this? SB hasnt cornered the market on DACs ..I will be leaving my Cullen-modded DAC for the new PS Audio PWD, as it is improves upon the Cullen DAC even more so than the Cullen DAC improved over the TP. You can call this subjective which, of course it is, but truly, I know what I heard. I was actually hoping that I would like the TP more. -- timequest timequest's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25640 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63796 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why Reclock If Using Low Jitter DAC
I sent an inquiry to S.N., whose response is not surprising, but does support the validity of why re-clocking is necessary in reducing jitter. From what I interpret from the information I have read recently, the claims made by the DAC manufacturers are not, shall I say accurate. Evidently, even the low rated jitter of some DACs (say 0.0003%) is still (very) audible; this is what I just read, but its hard to believe that such low measurements could be (very) audible. We do however see quite a few reviewers who say re-clocking makes an audible difference in their systems. The question for me is one of cost vs return (isnt it always). I can get a new PS Audio Perfect Wave DAC for $2,000 (with a trade in), or a Pace-Car with all the added options for about the same price. I will certainly wait to hear the PWD before making any decisions. I would love to hear a demonstration on jitter, so I would know whether, or not, (I) can even hear any differences. -- timequest timequest's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25640 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63796 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why Reclock If Using Low Jitter DAC
duke43j;427428 Wrote: Jitter in the digital world is like noise in the analog world; it's everwhere. Every component, including cables, contributes to jitter. You can't avoid it. Of course, if you don't reduce jitter from wherever it comes from (including cables), you will have problems. My point is that if one uses a DAC with an ASRC, jitter from all external sources (including cables) should be largely eliminated. So, cables shouldn't be an issue unless they are so bad that the input device can't read the data at all, in which case you will have dropouts. So to address the original question -- Do I need a reclocker if my DAC uses an ASRC?, and a subsequent question -- Do I need expensive cables? My opinion on both is No, because external jitter should not be an issue when using a well designed DAC having an asynchronous rate converter. I stand by my statement that there is a lot of bad information out there regarding this area. I believe you are correct, however I don't think this is bad information: http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue43/jitter.htm This article does make sense, but for me the question remains; just how audible is audible? -- timequest timequest's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25640 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63796 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why Reclock If Using Low Jitter DAC
NewBuyer;427564 Wrote: These are all the reasons why I feel the SqueezeBox Classic and Transporter (analog outs) are the ideal right now. Interface jitter issues are -completely- eliminated, the server software is outstanding, and these products simply sound fantastic. Well that's interesting. I was under the impression, from most of what I have read, that the digital out sounded better than the analog outs (all SM devices), especially when fed through an external (i.e.: better) DAC. -- timequest timequest's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25640 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63796 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why Reclock If Using Low Jitter DAC
seanadams;427570 Wrote: I think you'd be hard pressed to find a better DAC than Transporter's. And even if you did, it would have to support word clock mode to even compete on the same playing field (s/pdif is a huge disadvantage). As for SB3, duet et al, it's analog outputs are not going to blow away a high-end DAC, but yes they would make a fine pairing. I love the Transporter, don't get me wrong. Truth is, immediate A/B comparisons on the dealers best system reveled that the Cullen Stage IV PS Audio DL-III clearly sounded better than the TP (DAC connected to TP A/B with/without) - there's no other way to say it, everyone there heard the difference. I want to get the newest PSA DAC, the PWD, which has true I2S inputs (in the way of HDMI connectors). I really want to see if I can mod the Duet receiver with an I2S output. Is that doable? -- timequest timequest's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25640 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63796 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why Reclock If Using Low Jitter DAC
duke43j;426889 Wrote: I've been doing some reading on this in my search for an external DAC for my own system. I believe that older DAC designs were very susceptible to jitter, and reclockers had a useful function in reducing the jitter before it reached the DAC. The more modern DAC designs that contain asynchronous rate converters are much more tolerant of jitter. That being the case, I believe a reclocker won't give you much of an improvement when used with a modern DAC. (I expect a loud chorus of replies with that remark.) Also, the older DACs were based on a resistive ladder approach which had linearity problems. The newer designs are based on a delta-sigma scheme and are much more linear. I would suggest you try a modern DAC such as the Benchmark or Cambridge Audio and see how it sounds. I think you will be quite pleased with the performance without an external reclocker. You could always add a reclocker later, but I don't think you'll find it necessary. I tend to agree, however I continue to read about SB users utilizing the Pace-Car re-clocker in conjunction with very high quality modern external DACs. Why would this be necessary unless the external DAC isnt effective at reducing the jitter it is being fed? Obviously marketing comes into play but whos marketing the re-clockers, or the DAC manufacturers? I realize too, that there is some real science at play here. According to the designer, my external DAC is measured at less than 1ps jitter (0.005% @ 10 kHz; 0.0038 @14 kHz; 0.002% @20 kHz); but what do these low numbers really mean? Does this mean that the DAC is reducing the jitter from the transport down to these very low specs? If so, I cant see the need for a re-clocking device (unless 0.005% jitter is audible). However, there appears to be some science (and marketing) behind the concept that a re-clocker can significantly improve jitter in devices like the SB3/Duet even when these devices are used in conjunction with external DACs. Can someone help me understand this maybe sort through the science/marketing? -- timequest timequest's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25640 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63796 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why Reclock If Using Low Jitter DAC
darrenyeats;427085 Wrote: If we take the Benchmark as an example they publish specs showing that output distortion doesn't change as input jitter is increased. The take-home point is that the measurements (whatever you think of them) don't change when the input jitter changes. http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/system1/files/documents/DAC1.pdf Either they are printing drivel or you don't need a re-clocker. There doesn't appear to be a middle ground. I don't have a Benchmark and I've no plans to buy one so I've no point to prove. I'm just saying. :) Darren This is what I want to believe, that the jitter issue is resolved by using a good DAC with low jitter measurements. If this was simply the case however, then why would the minimum length of the digital cable necessarily be a factor; if the DAC would correct any jitter issues, why even worry about whats upstream from the DAC? Discussions regarding the importance of minimizing jitter in the digital cable (i.e.: lengths of 1.5 meters or more), or by re-clocking the signal before the DAC, leads me to believe there is more to the issue of reducing jitter than simply incorporating a low-jitter DAC. I would like to have a better understanding -- timequest timequest's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25640 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63796 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is Slim Server Bit Perfect?
Nonreality;426855 Wrote: Ah a true Audiophile Ridiculous isnt it!? -- timequest timequest's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25640 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63646 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why Reclock If Using Low Jitter DAC
There are a couple of threads here, and many elsewhere, regarding re-clocking - specifically, the Empirical Audio Pace-Car. My question has to do with an external DAC and the role it plays with reducing jitter. If you have a good DAC with very low jitter measurements, doesnt it already do some correcting/or eliminating of jitter fed to it by the transport (i.e.: SB Duet receiver)? I assume a re-clocker is installed before the DAC? Is the theory (reality whatever) that re-clocking the signal greatly reduces the jitter, even more than a good DAC? I see by the articles that Ive read that the Pace-Car was being utilized in conjunction with an external DAC, fed by SB ?? -- timequest timequest's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25640 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63796 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optimal player settings and setup
Phil Leigh;426272 Wrote: Under Settings - Player - Audio do you have a Preamp Volume Control? - if so, set it to 63. 63? Setting the player's Preamp Volume Control to 63 will mute the analog outputs? I'll try it, but why 63? -- timequest timequest's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25640 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63689 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optimal player settings and setup
Using Duet with external DAC -flac files only; software is 7.33 Thanks -- timequest timequest's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25640 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63689 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is Slim Server Bit Perfect?
snarlydwarf;425782 Wrote: Yes, it is, assuming you don't turn on things that would interfere with that (ie, crossfading, replay gain and even volume: all by nature interfere with the digital bitstream). Assuming that (which is why there is an option to lock the digital volume to 100%), then, yes, the digital outputs will match the encoded bitstream. This is true to the point that if you pass it a file with DTS encoding to a DTS-capable decoder, it will light the light to say it is DTS and decode it properly. That is plain not possible if the bits changed. How do I access and set these optimal settings? I want to lock the digital setting to 100% and turn off anything that would interfere...Please provide me with directions. Thank you. -- timequest timequest's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25640 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63646 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is Slim Server Bit Perfect?
Phil Leigh;425957 Wrote: Settings - player - audio on the Web UI. Be warned - you won't hear any difference (unless you use the volume at low settings). Thanks. Regardless, I want to be sure that I have bit perfect quality. -- timequest timequest's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25640 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63646 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is Slim Server Bit Perfect?
Phil Leigh;425957 Wrote: Settings - player - audio on the Web UI. Be warned - you won't hear any difference (unless you use the volume at low settings). I don't like being dense anymore than I'm sure you appreciate my denseness...but, when I go to settings/player via the web IU, I dont see any options except for the (Reset Player Preferences), which when accessed only brings up a screen that says, Are You Sure You Want To Reset Factory Defaults?). Is this what I need to access? I dont want to press anything if I dont know what its for!!! Folks like me need a little more specifics in their directions!! I do appreciate your expertise. -- timequest timequest's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25640 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63646 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is Slim Server Bit Perfect?
Okay. That's strange...the first time I accessed my player setting none of the aforementioned setting options appeared (computer screen was minimized (it still should have come up??) - anyway, it came up on my second attempt. Here is what I now have. Is this correct? Turn off audio: Always On Crossfade: None Smart Crossfade: Disabled Crossfade Duration 0 Volume Control: 100% Fixed Volume Adjustment: Non Thank you -- timequest timequest's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25640 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63646 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optimal player settings and setup
Rather than go off topic and hijack someone elses thread, I am starting this one based on the todays thread titled, Is Slim Server Bit Perfect? I was not aware of the optimal settings that were discussed in that tread. Are there any other recommended settings that the Audiophile Community here is using or recommends? Based on the aforementioned thread, I have reset my player to turn off crossfading features and set the digital volume to 100%. Any other recommendations will be appreciated. Thanks - -- timequest timequest's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25640 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63689 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Oh My, Is All WiFi Limited to 16/44.1
Robin Bowes;425667 Wrote: timequest wrote: Robin Bowes;425498 Wrote: timequest wrote: I would be willing to spend a grand (hopefully less, but not much more). What say you in the know? Get a Transporter. R. If you have a Transporter for a grand or less I'll take it today. Here ya go: http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/page/moreinfo.cfm/Product_ID/3229 Slightly more than a grand, but not much more. R. I reside in the USA, so I am referring to US dollars not Lira. The Transporter advertised via the link you provided for me (by the way, thank you) is for L1,077.00 or $1,511.00 ( more than slightly more than a grand)- good price though. -- timequest timequest's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25640 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63610 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Oh My, Is All WiFi Limited to 16/44.1
Robin Bowes;425742 Wrote: Goodsounds wrote: Yeah, why can't you pesky Brits keep your darn Lira to yourselves!! Heh, I did think about passing comment, but decided against it! ;) R. Ahh youre quite clever and I missed the play...took the proverbial bait! Cheers to the BBC, British ale, pretty ladies with cool accents, the Harbeth sound and Benny Hill -- timequest timequest's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25640 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63610 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Oh My, Is All WiFi Limited to 16/44.1
Well...I'm relieved then! It's true; you can't always believe what you read. I tried to find the thread that I was reading over at (don't know if I can say the name...Agon), but I can't find it. I had come across it when researching re-clocking devices, and it read, most Wi-Fi is limited to 16/44.1 anyway... I knew you guys would clear this up for me. Okay then, what about utilizing a re-clocking device with the Duet. My objective is to get as close to true high end sound as possible with the Duet. I'm using a good DAC now, and the sound is very good, just not quite there. If I can make it even better, then that's what I want to do - within a reasonable budget. By this, I mean something that is clearly heard. If the internal mods, or the addition of a good re-clocker make such slight improvements that you have to really strain to hear them...forget it. If an internal mod, and/or a good re-clocker can make a definite improvement, I would be willing to spend a grand (hopefully less, but not much more). What say you in the know? Thank you. -- timequest timequest's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25640 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63610 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Oh My, Is All WiFi Limited to 16/44.1
Robin Bowes;425498 Wrote: timequest wrote: I would be willing to spend a grand (hopefully less, but not much more). What say you in the know? Get a Transporter. R. If you have a Transporter for a grand or less I'll take it today. Actually, I happen to like the controller that comes with the Duet, because my eyes are getting so bad, I dont think I could see the screen on the Transporter! An even bigger issue for me is the fact that the Transporter DAC doesn't sound as good as the external DAC I am using with my Duet (yes, I did side-by-side A/B comparisons). Since I have the DAC, and I like the features of the Duet, it makes sense that I would look for methods to extend the performance of the Duet (for less than what a Transporter costs). I do agree that if the cost to upgrade the Duet surpasses a certain point, it would be prudent to go with a Transporter, to which I can use my DAC. -- timequest timequest's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25640 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63610 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Oh My, Is All WiFi Limited to 16/44.1
bhaagensen;425497 Wrote: Is it this one? http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?icomp1222794208openusidzzAudioengr45#Audioengr In that case the statement is most wifi *devices* are lim.. i.e. something else. I didn't count so for all I know that may or may not be true. Well...what's the verdict then? I got some pretty strong feedback here that claims that in no way is WiFi limited to 16/44.1 Could some WiFi routers in fact be limited to 16/44.1 as the aforementioned post/thread states? If so, how do I determine whether or not I have one of those routers?? -- timequest timequest's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25640 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63610 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Oh My, Is All WiFi Limited to 16/44.1
egd;425560 Wrote: It's 4:16am here so perhaps my brain is a little foggy, but hooking an external DAC up to your Receiver will bypass the Duet's DAC, so where's the problem...what you're hearing is the external DAC? Where in the world are you literally? And, what are you doing up man; according to USA Today, less than 5 hours of Z-time over time will put an end to you!? Anyway, I didnt make it too clear. What I mean is, I like the sound from my external DAC better than I do the sound from a stock Transporter and since I already have said external DAC and the Duet, why not tweak the Duet for better performance rather than buy a Transformer. That is to say, as long as the cost of upgrading the Duet doesnt make purchasing a Transformer the prudent alternative. The poster whom I was responding to seemed to indicate my solution lie in purchasing a Transformer rather than investing up to, or close to $1,000 (the last time I looked, a Transporter was around $2,000). -- timequest timequest's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25640 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63610 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Oh My, Is All WiFi Limited to 16/44.1
Phil Leigh;425571 Wrote: That Poster (Steve N) is talking about most wi-fi based audio playback devices (like Airport Express, Roku soundbridge etc) as being limited... not to wi-fi itself as a networking method. The modern SB family is not part of this limited set of devices. SB3 can do 24/48 over wi-fi/cable - the TP can do 24/96. You need a G/N wi-fi net for this. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Now it makes much better sense. -- timequest timequest's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25640 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63610 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Power supply DAC for my SB3 - recommendations?
Really, don't worry about the power supply as it won't make a truly noticeable improvement in what you can actually hear. By all means do however, add a DAC. Either save up for one in the future, or look on Audiogon for a used DAC. There are some decent DACs on the market that retail for around $400 (DAC Magic is one that comes to mind - I've not heard it though). A brand new PS Audio DL-III has been reduced in price to $699, so a used one should be had for a good 40 percent less. Also, get a good 75 ohm cable for the digital out (Sereovox XV2 is a giant killer and can be had at a reasonable price used - try usedcables.com) Good luck -- timequest timequest's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25640 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63349 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] You can say, I told you so...
I'm an audiophile - good or bad, I can't help it. I do things on impulse - sometimes...okay, a lot of times, against my better judgment, all in the pursuit of music fidelity. This explains why I added a Channel Islands VDC-9.0 Ps...expensive IEC AC cable, umbilical...the works. Here's where the, I told you so comes in - I think the aftermarket PS is causing some issues. I will try to determine this by making some comparisons to the OMC PS this weekend, but for now, I am interested in some opinions of those who have tried, or are utilizing aftermarket linear power supplies (it would be great to hear from anyone using the CI product). First, should the Duet receiver be warm at all (slightly warm on the bottom of the unit). Second, with a linear PS, does anyone hear - how do I describe this - white noise...err, the noise that some amplifiers make when no music is playing, but the volume is turned up - a kind of airy hiss (not a ground loop issue)? I didn't notice this at first, but on quite music passages I can hear this noise. Third, this will be hard to explain - when I crank the volume, I can actually feel low frequency air movement (as you would during loud playback of music with low frequency passages) at the beginning of a song, prior to the music even being played. Now, I haven't put the stock OMC PS back in to see if any of these things occur, but I'm thinking these issues are being caused by the aftermarket PS. Does any of this sound familiar? Has anyone had the same or similar experiences? I don't care if anyone wants to say, I told you so - it wouldn't have helped anyway...I have a condition, I'm an audiophile. -- timequest timequest's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25640 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63374 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] You can say, I told you so...
Okay, I had the opportunity to reinstall the OMC PS and do a comparison. First, let me say that the Channel Island VDC-9.0 is NOT causing any issues. I wouldn't want potential buyers of the CI product to be discouraged. The same noise what we used to call tape hiss was still just as apparent, as was the low level frequency air movement issue. So whats the problem with ME? The thing is, I was really doing some serious evaluating of the new installation of the CI power supply scrutinizing looking for any perceived differences. That when I noticed the aforementioned issues. I didnt remember hearing those things before with the OMC PS, so I did what any obsessive personality would do I jumped to conclusions. That said (let me reiterate, the CI unit works just fine with the Duet), how does the addition of the aftermarket PS make the Duet sound? Cant tell. Without actually doing an immediate A/B comparison, my ears just arent that golden. Some people claim that they can hear an immediate improvement. For certain, the addition of the CI unit did not hinder the sound in any way it may have helped (I just cant say for certain). However, the new CI unit certainly looks impressive Im utilizing a nice Tara Labs PC and super-duper power umbilical .cool stuff, no doubt. And there is always the placebo factor- by golly, I think I actually do hear an improvement in the bass region. In reality, thats about as much as any audiophile can realistically expect from most tweaks Sorry for the false alarm! -- timequest timequest's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25640 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63374 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Benchmark vs. CIAudio VDA-2
duke43j;421389 Wrote: I don't have a transporter, but I can bring the wine and snacks if you can show me the difference between the SB3 analog out vs. an external DAC. I've been thinking about springing for an external DAC for quite a while, but I am not sure if there will be $1K worth of improvement. I've read all these great reviews of the Benchmark, so I was leaning toward it. But the technology has improved since it first came out, and I would think there must be equivalent (or better) DACs on the market at a lower price. My system is -- SB3 or Rega Apollo CDP = VTL 2.5 pre = Classe CA-2100 amp = Thiel CS2.4s. I like the sound of the Rega CDP, but I like the convenience of the SB3. I would love to have both. Duke Ive heard, but not listened extensively to the DAC1. I have done extensive auditioning of the transporter vs PS Audio DL-III. Clearly and I mean clearly audible, appreciable and noticeably better (more transparent, more controlled especially in the bass, more airy, and with more defined soundstage) the stock DL-III outperformed the transporter. You can now pick up a brand new DL-III from PS Audio for $699. I also did extensive A/B comparisons between the stock DL-III and my Cullen Stage IV upgraded DL-III. The Cullen DAC outperformed the stock unit in a way that was also noticeable and apparent (but not as noticeable as was the difference between the stock DL-III and the transporter). In terms of this hobbys typical diminishing returns, I believe that the additional $700 for the Stage IV upgrade is justifiable by the slight gains in fidelity. That said however, before you spring for the Cullen upgrade, I would suggest that you try to audition the stock unit with a Cullen unit. Hope this helps. -- timequest timequest's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25640 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36172 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Getting the Best out of New SB3
Phil Leigh;420809 Wrote: The duet needs 9v but the SB needs 5v. Anyway, there is no point in using an aftermarket supply like the CI one when inside the SB is a switching supply... Spend the money on your favourite DAC instead. So it is flawed reasoning to say that the stock unit may cause noise contaminants due to it being a switching supply when in fact, the SB utilized an internal switching supply anyway? How about this then from a technical perspective, is there any validity to the argument that a better power source (i.e.: less distortion) will potentially produce less distortion (i.e.: noise contaminants) in a device such as the SB/Duet utilizing internal switching supplies? -- timequest timequest's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25640 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=59264 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Getting the Best out of New SB3
Phil Leigh;420850 Wrote: No, not really. There is no law of the universe that requires switching PSU's to be a bad thing. Several high-end manufacturers use them... More importantly, both myself and iPhone have conducted tests using AudioDiffMaker on a wide variety of power supplies (including dry cells) and found no discernible difference. To REALLY make a difference, one would have to dissect the circuit which is what the SB+ does. I'm prepared to believe that this will improve the analogue output a little (but I haven't heard one). However, I do not believe it will make much difference to the digital output. This is why I love this forum. Thank you, Phil Leigh. The fact that you have tested this theory is quite valid to me. You know, it's the audiophile in me that wants it to be a great tweak (this can be a sick hobby). We've all spend more than a few hundred dollars on tweaking cables, damping devices, power cords, etc. At $279 the CI PS is so attainable it makes it hard to resist - even though I realize it is likely to make zero difference. Is this like neurosis!? -- timequest timequest's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25640 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=59264 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Getting the Best out of New SB3
USAudio;398082 Wrote: Too bad the CIAudio VDC-SB is so pricey at $259 USD: http://www.ciaudio.com/vdc_sb.html Interesting#8230; I can't help but tweak, and this is a relatively inexpensive tweak in the audiophile game. Will this device mate well with a SB Duet - is it the same as an SB3? [Addendum]Actually, I just went to their website and I see that it is the VDC 9.0 that is recommended with the Duet. Why is this? -- timequest timequest's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25640 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=59264 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Higher quality APC power cord for Duet?
Has anyone tried switching out the stock AC power adapter cord that come with the Duet player/receiver, with a higher quality APC cord/adapter? -- timequest timequest's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25640 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=61496 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Higher quality APC power cord for Duet?
I started my original thread before I came across information on the power supply upgrade via Wellborne Labs: http://www.welbornelabs.com/squeeze.htm Anyone try this yet? -- timequest timequest's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25640 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=61496 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Higher quality APC power cord for Duet?
Man, I got to tell you, this site is fantastic. I can't believe how quickly my questions get answered. This is exactly the information I was looking for. Thank you iPhone. -- timequest timequest's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25640 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=61496 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
