[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Digital room correction on Linux
Update: the Inguz room correction EQ system is now running on Linux (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31620). Mac OSX support should be quite straightforward. But I don't have a Mac to play on yet... -- inguz inguz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1139 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=25381 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Digital room correction on Linux
I also would like to chime in with a request for Mac support for Inguz room correction. Once ported to Linux, I hope it wouldn't be be too difficult to bring it to Mac OSX. Are there any other DRC developments that could work on Mac OSX? Thanks! -- Robert57 Robert57's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8552 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=25381 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Digital room correction on Linux
Is there any digital room correction scheme that will work on MAC? Failing that, will the digital room correction written to work on Windows work using Virtual PC on the Mac? -- atkinsonrr atkinsonrr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7214 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=25381 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
I have a Behringer 2496 but feel that it would be very nice to have parametric digital EQ at the PC end as well. However, if you have multiple squeezeboxes in different rooms requiring different sorts of correction, you run into problems with a PC based system. Room correction by equalisation is for the lower frequencies. Under 200Hz, maybe under 300Hz. For higher frequencies, room correction is by placing absorbent materials to ensure a more or less consistent reverb time (eg: RT60). The Behringer ECM8000 (US$49) is accurate enough for 'home users' at 20-200Hz as well. I have the radioshack SPL meter and both report similar results. Useful software: http://www.etfacoustic.com/ http://www.trueaudio.com/rta_abt1.htm -- yc_ yc_'s Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2173 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Digital room correction on Linux
OK, I have finally, after much trial and error, gotten Brutefir to work
with slimserver. So far I can only filter a flac stream. I just
cannot get mp3 to work with this proccess. But since 99.6% of my music
collection is stored as flac, that's OK with me.
Here's what I did:
First off, I already had the hard part done. As I mentioned in a
previous post, I have been using Hugh's wonderful Windows based
software for some time. Having already followed his excellent
directions, I already had my room measurements and generated filters.
Next I installed Brutefir and put a copy of the binary into
/usr/local/slimserver/Bin/i386-linux.
Using the current wiki as a starting point, I began to research the
documentation at the Brutefir site (highly recomended) and to borrow
parts of existing configuration files that I found while searching.
After a lot of trial and error, editing, and slimserver restarts, I
have a working (probably not optimized) config file
(.brutefir_normal1_filter2), as follows:
## DEFAULT GENERAL SETTINGS ##
float_bits: 32; # internal floating point precision
sampling_rate: 44100; # sampling rate in Hz of audio interfaces
filter_length: 8192,8; # length of filters
overflow_warnings: true;# echo warnings to stderr if overflow
occurs
show_progress: false;# echo filtering progress to stderr
max_dither_table_size: 0; # maximum size in bytes of precalculated
dither
allow_poll_mode: false; # allow use of input poll mode
modules_path: .; # extra path where to find BruteFIR
modules
monitor_rate: false;# monitor sample rate
powersave: true; # pause filtering when input is zero
lock_memory: true; # try to lock memory if realtime prio is
set
convolver_config: /home/jsl/filters/.brutefir_convolver; # location
of convolver config file
coeff drc_l {
filename: /home/jsl/filters/normal1_leftfilter2.pcm;
format: FLOAT_LE; # file format
attenuation: 0.0; # attenuation in dB
blocks: -1; # how long in blocks
skip: 0;# how many bytes to skip
shared_mem: false; # allocate in shared memory
};
coeff drc_r {
filename: /home/jsl/filters/normal1_rightfilter2.pcm;
format: FLOAT_LE; # file format
attenuation: 0.0; # attenuation in dB
blocks: -1; # how long in blocks
skip: 0;# how many bytes to skip
shared_mem: false; # allocate in shared memory
};
## INPUT DEFAULTS ##
input l_in,r_in {
device: file {path: /dev/stdin;}; # module and parameters to get
audio
sample: S16_LE; # sample format
channels: 2/0,1;# number of open channels / which to use
delay: 0,0; # delay in samples for each channel
maxdelay: -1; # max delay for variable delays
mute: false,false; # mute active on startup for each channel
};
## OUTPUT DEFAULTS ##
output l_out,r_out {
device: file {path: /dev/stdout;}; # module and parameters to put
audio
sample: S16_LE; # sample format
channels: 2/0,1;# number of open channels / which to use
delay: 0,0; # delay in samples for each channel
maxdelay: -1; # max delay for variable delays
mute: false,false; # mute active on startup for each channel
dither: false; # apply dither
};
## FILTER DEFAULTS ##
filter l_filter {
from_inputs: l_in/2.0;
to_outputs: l_out/0.0;
process: 0;# process index to run in (-1 means auto)
coeff: drc_l;
delay: 0; # predelay, in blocks
crossfade: false; # crossfade when coefficient is changed
};
filter r_filter {
from_inputs: r_in/2.0;
to_outputs: r_out/0.0;
process: 0;# process index to run in (-1 means auto)
coeff: drc_r;
delay: 0; # predelay, in blocks
crossfade: false; # crossfade when coefficient is changed
};
I then stored the config file in /usr/local/slimserver.
As you can see from the settings, my filters are named
normal1_rightfilter2.pcm and normal1_leftfilter2.pcm. They are 32bit
float format. Hence the FLOAT_LE setting. The filters are applied
to the corresponding channel and then sent to stdout, where slimserver
takes over.
I then added the following to the slimserver convert.conf file:
flc wav * *
[flac] -dcs --force-raw-format --endian=little --sign=signed
--skip=$START$ --until=$END$ -- $FILE$ | brutefir -quiet -nodefault
/usr/local/slimserver/.brutefir_normal1_filter2
After restarting slimserver, make the required changes in Home-Server
Settings-File Types and give it a try.
So far, so good. But, as always, YMMV.
--
HoZ
HoZ's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1579
View this thread:
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Digital room correction on Linux
Mattias, I am very interested in your progress on this front. I have been testing Hugh's (Inguz's) room correction plugin/processor for some time now in WinXP. The results have been substantial and very satisfying. Hugh has really done a marvelous job. However, I currently dual boot between XP and linux, and now find myself using linux more often than not. In fact, one of the main reasons that I still use Windows, is for DRC using Hugh's software creations. I have spent a fair amount of time today doing some research and following the guidelines on the Brutefir wiki you've started. So far I have not been succesfull in getting a filtered stream to play through my SB2. But, I intend to keep experimenting and following your progress. Hopefully, one day soon, we (along with other interested linux users)will be able to enjoy the benefits of room correction. Thanks, Joe -- HoZ HoZ's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1579 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=25381 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Digital room correction on Linux
On 8/23/06, HoZ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mattias, I am very interested in your progress on this front. My progress has been fairly non-existent. I got as far as I documented in the wiki, then I stopped because I had to buy measuring equipment. I now have the measuring equipment, but I haven't had any time to start playing with it. I have spent a fair amount of time today doing some research and following the guidelines on the Brutefir wiki you've started. So far I have not been succesfull in getting a filtered stream to play through my SB2. Have you tried to see if you can get brutefir working at all? You can try to play a file directly with mpg321 test.mp3 -s | aplay -f cd - and then try to apply the filter with mpg321 test.mp3 -s | brutefir .brutefir_simple | aplay -f cd - But, I intend to keep experimenting and following your progress. I definitely intend to follow this project through. I just don't know when... /Mattias -- Mattias Holmlund http://www.holmlund.se/mattias/ ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
I was hoping that someone would tell us how they went. I have all the software set up and running. I got an Alesis io2 audio interface off ebay (the Tascam was out of stock). I am just waiting on a microphone. I am not 100% sure how to do the measurements (exactly what am I measuring?) but I guess I will find out. Steve -- stevo stevo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6250 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
GreenMan Wrote: I haven't had a chance to try this out yet. Has anyone done anything with the Inguz tools? I've been using Inguz's plugin since an early alpha version a few months ago. Due to lack of time and lots of travelling, I haven't upgraded yet to the more recent versions, but the one I'm using makes a very significant improvement in sound. I'll be upgrading to the latest in a few days. In my experience the hardest part of DRC is getting a good measurement. An additional difficulty I have is the fact that my listening room is pretty small, and I move around it quite a lot, so nodes are a problem. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
opaqueice Wrote: ... makes a very significant improvement in sound. That's good to hear! In my experience the hardest part of DRC is getting a good measurement. Any tips? I should be trying this in the next few days and any suggestions would be appreciated. regards Steve -- stevo stevo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6250 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
Any tips? I should be trying this in the next few days and any suggestions would be appreciated. Steve Hugh (Inguz) had some nice step-by-step instructions posted somewhere to get you started. Basically, you record the sweep played through a speaker on one channel using the mic, and you record the analogue out of your SB or DAC on the other channel. Then you do the same for the other speaker. I think the key is to play long sweeps (I've been using 60 seconds, but might try longer) as loud as possible, and to do it at a time when there is as little background noise as possible (very early mornings here). To determine the loudest volume your speakers can tolerate is a bit tricky. You can use a voltmeter to measure the amount of power being dissipated in them, or search the web and you'll find various methods. Also, make sure you place the mic at ear-level in your typical listening position, and aim it towards the speaker you're recording. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
opaqueice Wrote: Hugh (Inguz) had some nice step-by-step instructions posted somewhere to get you started. Basically, you record the sweep played through a speaker on one channel using the mic, and you record the analogue out of your SB or DAC on the other channel. Then you do the same for the other speaker. I think the key is to play long sweeps (I've been using 60 seconds, but might try longer) as loud as possible, and to do it at a time when there is as little background noise as possible (very early mornings here). To determine the loudest volume your speakers can tolerate is a bit tricky. You can use a voltmeter to measure the amount of power being dissipated in them, or search the web and you'll find various methods. Also, make sure you place the mic at ear-level in your typical listening position, and aim it towards the speaker you're recording. Why would you try to play as loud as possible? Wouldn't that artificially generate echo that wouldn't otherwise be there at ordinary listening volume? Wouldn't that skew the results for equalization at listening volume? (Alas, I'm no longer a teenager. Max volume is not ordinary listening anymore :-) ) -- GreenMan My computer - SB2- Krell KAV-300i - pair of Thiel CS2 - my ears - my brain GreenMan's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1173 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
GreenMan Wrote: Why would you try to play as loud as possible? Wouldn't that artificially generate echo that wouldn't otherwise be there at ordinary listening volume? Wouldn't that skew the results for equalization at listening volume? (Alas, I'm no longer a teenager. Max volume is not ordinary listening anymore :-) ) You want it loud to improve signal/noise, which is the major issue here. A loud sound won't artificially generate anything - the room response should be very close to linear in the volume, and in any case if there are significant non-linearities you can forget about RC - it won't work. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
Phil Leigh Wrote: what about room compression? - surely you want to use a typical listening volume rather than getting the air in the room into an air brick state? (I realise it would have to be VERY loud to do that but even so...) I'm not exactly sure what you mean by room compression, but I'm guessing you mean non-linear response of the air to compression versus rarefaction. If so I think that's an extremely small effect, and if you want with some thought I can give a numerical estimate on how small (I think it should be controlled by the ratio of the distance the speaker cone moves to the size of the room, raised at least to the third power - so very small). On the other hand if you have an even slightly noisy room you get significant and noticeable pollution of the recording from that. Anyway, all I know for sure is that louder sweeps give better results in my own experience with RC. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
opaqueice Wrote: I'm not exactly sure what you mean by room compression, but I'm guessing you mean non-linear response of the air to compression versus rarefaction. If so I think that's an extremely small effect, and if you want with some thought I can give a numerical estimate on how small (I think it should be controlled by the ratio of the distance the speaker cone moves to the size of the room, raised at least to the third power - so very small). On the other hand if you have an even slightly noisy room you get significant and noticeable pollution of the recording from that. Anyway, all I know for sure is that louder sweeps give better results in my own experience with RC. Yep that's exactly what I meant... and it's not a small effect in practice at high volumes as any musician will vouch. If you wind up a Marshall amp in a small room you get a congested sound that is not present in a larger room... -- Phil Leigh Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
JohnnyLightOn Wrote: Can I use this plug-in as a balance control, even if I don't do the room analyzing yet? My integrated amp has no balance control. No, it doesn't include balance controls. -- inguz inguz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1139 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
OK, thanks inguz. -- JohnnyLightOn JohnnyLightOn's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=28 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
bump*** -- GreenMan My computer - SB2- Krell KAV-300i - Thiel CS2 GreenMan's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1173 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
azinck3 Wrote: You can pretty much take your pick from this list (any of them that are stereo and have a mic preamp): http://www.sweetwater.com/store/category.php?c=695sb=catalogpriceso=asc I certainly haven't used all of them but to give you a starting point I should say that I've been happy with the TASCAM us-122, and am generally quite satisfied with M-Audio equipment. Here's something I never thought I'd ask, but given that many of us who go down this new road of unspent money are going to get an inexpensive TASCAM or similar, does it make much of a difference what quality microphone cable I use for my freakin' high fidelity digital room correction misadventure? ;-) I notice 2 on the website you supplied that cost about the same, and one that costs double. http://www.sweetwater.com/shop/cables/top15.php -- GreenMan My computer - SB2- Krell KAV-300i - Thiel CS2 GreenMan's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1173 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
I've got a bettery-powered Radio Shack sound level meter with an RCA line level output: http://www.radioshack.com/sm-digital-display-sound-level-meter--pi-2103667.html http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/spl-meter_e.html Can I use this with the plugin by plugging the line out directly into my sound card?? -- cbemoore cbemoore's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=163 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
GreenMan Wrote: Here's something I never thought I'd ask, but given that many of us who go down this new road of unspent money are going to get an inexpensive TASCAM or similar, does it make much of a difference what quality microphone cable I use for my freakin' high fidelity digital room correction misadventure? ;-) I notice 2 on the website you supplied that cost about the same, and one that costs double. http://www.sweetwater.com/shop/cables/top15.php Without venturing into a cable war, I can assure you that you don't need to buy Monster brand XLR cables for this task. Any reasonably well-built cable will be fine. But...with respect to my recommendations on that site: per Hugh's comment a few posts back I looked to see if some of the cheaper units support a 44.1khz sample rate and many of them DON'T (including the Tascam us-122). However, it appears this unit does, so maybe this is the best bet amongst the cheap units: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LinkUSB/ I've never used it so I don't want to highly recommend it, but it has Mackie-designed preamps (Mackie's a decent name in mid-level pro-audio) and supports the required sample rate. I haven't spent a ton of time researching this so there could be other, even better choices out there that I'm missing so I'd spend a little time looking before jumping in. -- azinck3 azinck3's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3967 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
GreenMan Wrote: I believe it does. I'm looking at the product manual and it says: Setting the Sample Rate and Bit Depth The US-122 supports sample rates of 44.1kHz and 48kHz. In the Audio Control Panel, select the pull-down menu for Sample Rate and select either 44.1 kHz or 48 kHz. Link to manual is here: http://www.tascam.com/Products/US-122/US122_Eng.pdf Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong. Ah, good eye. You are correct. I should have looked at the manual but just glanced quickly at the Sweetwater specs, which are apparently incomplete. -- azinck3 azinck3's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3967 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
inguz Wrote: Multiple squeezeoxes each get their own settings (because presumably they're in different rooms or driving different systems). Tonite I'm setting this up on a friend's reference system, and ... hmmm, something's very wrong (muddy, no top end at all, everything is off). So there's something amiss, and I'm not sure with what until I get a chance to diagnose some more. Oh well, such is life. [LATER: it's not the software, it's the measurements. Oooo-kay. There's still a bit too much black art in measuring properly.] Inguz, a quick question: for your method to work, does the audio interface have to sample at the uppermost capability of the dac you are using? I think the Benchmark DAC1 has a playback capability of 52kHz. Or do you not pipe through the outboard DAC (if existing) for the sweep? I'm looking at the USB Audio Interfaces you mention in your setup documentation, but most of those only record at 48kHz on the high side. -- GreenMan My computer - SB2- Krell KAV-300i - Thiel CS2 GreenMan's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1173 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
You need to be able to record at 44.1kHz (same as CD). The sweeps are 44.1kHz FLAC. Be sure to measure with equipment which really does record at 44.1. Some of the cheap equipment will only record at 48kHz, and you won't get a good measurement that way. (For now, 44.1 is the only sample-rate which my processor supports. If you have music recorded with any other rate -- e.g. 48kHz -- then it'll be passed through unchanged). If you don't have an external DAC: play the sweep as normal, and lift off the reference channel at the SB's analog output. If you do run an external DAC: play the sweep as normal, and lift off the reference channel at the DAC's analog output. -- inguz inguz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1139 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
This looks like great work. And the documentation is even pretty good, to boot! But I haven't installed it yet (I don't have a reference mic) and in reading through the docs I had a question. The docs state The inguzDSP system turns everything (even low-btrate MP3s) into 24-bit FLAC to send to the Squeezebox, which can take quite a lot of networking.. I have a SB1--can I assume that that FLAC data will actually end up being streamed as a WAV to my SB1? I understand how all the conversions and transcoding happen in a normal slimserver setup, but with the InguzDSP in there I'm a little foggy as to how it's all supposed to work... -- azinck3 azinck3's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3967 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
Sorry, I don't think the current version will work with SB1. Added to the bug list. -- inguz inguz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1139 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
inguz Wrote: Sorry, I don't think the current version will work with SB1. Added to the bug list. Thanks for the quick response. SB1 support would be greatly appreciated. But if you don't add it then I suppose Slim will probably sell another SB3...;) -- azinck3 azinck3's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3967 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
... from, say, using a powered mic and Room Eq Wizard? (http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/) I know you seem to have developed a SB-specific solution. What are the advantages over other methods at this point, in your view? -- GreenMan My computer - SB2- Krell KAV-300i - Thiel CS2 GreenMan's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1173 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
GreenMan Wrote: ... from, say, using a powered mic and Room Eq Wizard? (http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/) I know you seem to have developed a SB-specific solution. What are the advantages over other methods at this point, in your view? I know this was for Hugh, but I couldn't help piping up ;). The idea is the same as the Room EQ wizard. But once you get the FIR filter using the Room EQ wizard you have to do something with it to actually get the correction. This must be done via specialized hardware (like a TacT or the Behringer unit or a more generic parametric eq) or (in the case of systems that source their audio from a computer) software. Hardware has the advantage of being able to affect any audio source. But software has the advantage of being cheap. In software you have two options: you could run the processing on all of your audio files so that the actual data is changed to reflect the correct correction for your room. But that's lousy if you want to do anything with those files except play them on that exact system, in that exact room. The other option is to use a convolver to process the room correction in real-time based on the FIR filter. This is great as it allows you to set up different filters for different rooms and use the same files. Not to mention it doesn't ruin your perfect, lossless files. Inguz's plugin sets up a convolver for windows which works with Slimserver--something that was missing to this point. There are existing solutions for Linux. What's not clear to me is if a filter that's generated with the Room EQ wizard could be plugged into InguzDSP or if you have to use the tools Hugh provides... -- azinck3 azinck3's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3967 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
GreenMan Wrote: We've passed the $300 threshold for this free solution already. I bet you could get it all closer to $200 on the 'low side', and it WILL be free in the next room (should you have more than one room). The expensive part for me will be the Server upgrade... Is it XP only or will win2k work? -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
GreenMan Wrote: I wonder though. Starting from scratch, I'll need an audio interface, which look like they run about $250 on the low side. An adequate Berhinger mic looks to be about another $60 - $80. We've passed the $300 threshold for this free solution already. Granted, the Behringer deq2496 doesn't include a mic, but throw one on and you've got the same expense threshold, roughly speaking. I'm not knocking this software solution. Quite the contrary, I think I'll try it. But there is some comparable associated expense that places it in the same expense domain as buying a seperate piece of hardware with embedded (and optionally, outboard) equalization software. Yeah, I hear what you're saying. There are plenty of perfectly fine interfaces for $200, but even so, I know what you mean. For me, I have an interface already and can probably find a place to borrow the mic. The advantage is that you only need the equipment for a one-time setup. So even if you can't borrow it and are forced to buy you could ebay the stuff immediately and take a nominal loss. -- azinck3 azinck3's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3967 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
azinck3 Wrote: What's not clear to me is if a filter that's generated with the Room EQ wizard could be plugged into InguzDSP or if you have to use the tools Hugh provides... Any stereo WAV file in the impulse folder (C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\InguzEQ\Impulses\) can be selected from the plugin room-correction menu. Make sure the WAV files are less than 65536 samples long, for performance reasons. So I just tried 'Pink Fairies' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/classicpop/reviews/pinkfairies_fairies.shtml) through the lens of 'Small Church Stellingwoude' (http://www.xs4all.nl/~fokkie/IR.htm#Schellingwoude) (after trimming the impulse a bit). Mmmm. Interest-ing. Skunk Wrote: Is it XP only or will win2k work? Yes, win2k will work (anything on the .NET 2.0 supported list should be OK). -- inguz inguz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1139 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
azinck3 Wrote: Yeah, I hear what you're saying. There are plenty of perfectly fine interfaces for $200, but even so, I know what you mean. For me, I have an interface already and can probably find a place to borrow the mic. The advantage is that you only need the equipment for a one-time setup. So even if you can't borrow it and are forced to buy you could ebay the stuff immediately and take a nominal loss. Would you kindly name a few of those interfaces here? I also failed to include the cost of 30ft of mic cable that I need to get my mic to reach my computer in the next room, which adds about another $30 onto the price tag -- GreenMan My computer - SB2- Krell KAV-300i - Thiel CS2 GreenMan's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1173 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
Here's a question: I only have one SB to be concerned with, but for those who have multiple SBs around the house, isn't getting the mic to the audio interface near a computer something of a problem? Many (including myself) don't own a laptop, so that won't help. I wonder, are there any inexpensive audio interfaces that can use the SB's ethernet bridge? That would solve the problem of finding lng mic cords to get the mic talking to the interface. -- GreenMan My computer - SB2- Krell KAV-300i - Thiel CS2 GreenMan's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1173 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
GreenMan Wrote: Would you kindly name a few of those interfaces here? I also failed to include the cost of 30ft of mic cable that I need to get my mic to reach my computer in the next room, which adds about another $30 onto the price tag You can pretty much take your pick from this list:(any of them with a mic preamp anyways) http://www.sweetwater.com/store/category.php?c=695sb=catalogpriceso=asc I certainly haven't used all of them but to give you a starting point I should say that I've been happy with the TASCAM us-122, and am generally quite satisfied with M-Audio equipment. -- azinck3 azinck3's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3967 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
Inguz, the future of audio is here thanks to you. -- vdorta DIY computer (EAC/FLAC) -- wireless SB2 (Bolder digital analog mods, Sonicap Platinum bypass caps, Bolder Deluxe Power Supply) -- Stello M200 monos -- ACI Sapphire XLs on dedicated Sound Anchors and REL Storm III | JMT PPA headamp with custom bass boost -- AKG K601, Etymotics ER-4S vdorta's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1446 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
vdorta Wrote: Inguz, the future of audio is here thanks to you. I don't know if it's possible or not, but I hope you can add a fourth type of equalizer with several filters in the 20Hz-100Hz bass range. Hmmm.. its been around for quite some time. He, however, seems to be making some headway into making it available to the masses. -- Sleestack *headphone:* singlepower sds-xlr at, teac esoteric p-03/d-03, hd650 *2 channel:* tact rcs 2.2.xp w/ full aberdeen mods, bel canto oneref. 1000 monoblocks x 4, classe sacd2, epiphany 20-21s, tact w210 corner load subs *5.1 channel:* tact tcs mkii w/ aberdeen power supply, tact boz 216/2200 (x5) w/ aberdeen power supply, tact adc6 w/ full aberdeen mods, denon 5910, bel canto pl-1a, eggleston andra ii (x5), velodyne dd-15, pioneer elite pro 1130hd Sleestack's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6598 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
Sleestack Wrote: Keep in mind TACT gear makes correction for time, level and freq. responses, in addition to allowing you to design fletcher munson curve for volume dependent corrections. I'm not sure if the Behringer covers all of those factors. I'm sure it doesn't, but then it only costs a couple hundred bucks. Works for me. -- Mike Anderson 'FREE RADICAL RADIO!' (http://nvo.com/cd) Hours of free radical MP3s. Mike Anderson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1705 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
Announcing: the inguz room correction system for SqueezeBox: http://inguzaudio.com/RoomCorrection/ This quietly moves from a short Beta test period (thanks to my generous helpers!) to a likely much longer Evaluation (which should be fairly usable out of the gate; over time I'll drop a series of time-limited versions, fixing any bugs along the way). So, at least in theory, 'everything's in place / it's on' (http://www.popmatters.com/music/reviews/a/apostleofhustle-folkloric.shtml)... Hugh aka inguz -- inguz inguz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1139 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
Boinggg. any movement here people? This is possibly my favourite topic in audio at the moment, DRC on my Squeeze box. cheers all Nick. -- Grumpy_Git Grumpy_Git's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4230 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
What would you like to know? As you can see in my sig, I'm quite an avid TACT user. Keep in mind TACT gear makes correction for time, level and freq. responses, in addition to allowing you to design fletcher munson curve for volume dependent corrections. -- Sleestack *headphone:* singlepower sds-xlr at, teac esoteric p-03/d-03, hd650 *2 channel:* tact rcs 2.2.xp w/ full aberdeen mods, bel canto oneref. 1000 monoblocks x 4, classe sacd2, epiphany 20-21s, tact w210 corner load subs *5.1 channel:* tact tcs mkii w/ aberdeen power supply, tact boz 216/2200 (x5) w/ aberdeen power supply, tact adc6 w/ full aberdeen mods, denon 5910, bel canto pl-1a, eggleston andra ii (x5), velodyne dd-15, pioneer elite pro 1130hd Sleestack's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6598 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
khewa Wrote: actually it is not all digital. It would be all digital if you eliminated the Benchmark DAC1 and put in a Digital amp, like the Nuamp or Flying Mole I mean the signal processing that does the room correction is all done in the digital domain. Nothing analog is generated until after the EQ is done and the signal is sent to the DAC1. -- Mike Anderson 'FREE RADICAL RADIO!' (http://nvo.com/cd) Hours of free radical MP3s. Mike Anderson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1705 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
Mike Anderson Wrote: I mean the signal processing that does the room correction is all done in the digital domain. Nothing analog is generated until after the EQ is done and the signal is sent out of the DAC1. Do the amps from Nuforce an Flying Mole even accept digital inputs? Don't they accept analog input like most digital amps. The new TACT amps accept digital inputs only. -- Sleestack *headphone:* singlepower sds-xlr at, teac esoteric p-03/d-03, hd650 *2 channel:* tact rcs 2.2.xp w/ full aberdeen mods, bel canto oneref. 1000 monoblocks x 4, classe sacd2, epiphany 20-21s, tact w210 corner load subs *5.1 channel:* tact tcs mkii w/ aberdeen power supply, tact boz 216/2200 (x5) w/ aberdeen power supply, tact adc6 w/ full aberdeen mods, denon 5910, bel canto pl-1a, eggleston andra ii (x5), velodyne dd-15, pioneer elite pro 1130hd Sleestack's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6598 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
mauidan Wrote: So, if you have already have a PC, SB and an amp all you need is a RCS. RCS 2.0 sell on audiogon for less than $1K or you can buy a factory refurbished unit for $1490. Thanks for the detailed and useful info on their products. It's something I've been considering, and I played with one of their 2-channel models briefly and was impressed with the difference it made, as well as build quality etc. But I do think, as people move to computer-based audio, computer based DRC is the way things are going to go. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
In case you guys are unaware, several guys use the program here; http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/ for room correction in combination with the Behringer. I have yet to try it myself, as the last thing I want is another box in the signal path. But all you really need is a mic or SPL meter and cable to connected to your PC and you can at least measure your room for peaks and troughs. -- dlite dlite's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4885 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
mauidan Wrote: Do you have any first hand experience with the TacT RCS or TCS? I've played with a 2-channel TacT amp (so RCS I guess), but not the TCS. Why do you ask? Do you have any experience with computer-based DRC? -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
Just a gentle bump for this thread. I see that the plugin from Inguz audio is, sadly, still not available for download. Inguz, will that happen any time soon? I'll reiterate my offer to be a beta-tester and/or guinea pig. I'm impatient to try a room correction system, and if I have to wait too much longer I may just snap and buy one of those Behringer thingies... -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
...and a significant disadvantage as wellthe processed files would likely be unsuitable as a source for transcoding to MP3 in support of a portable device. I'd probably end up keeping unprocessed files, processed files, and MP3s in your library. Michael -- mgraves mgraves's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4078 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
mgraves Wrote: ...and a significant disadvantage as wellthe processed files would likely be unsuitable as a source for transcoding to MP3 in support of a portable device. I'd probably end up keeping unprocessed files, processed files, and MP3s in your library. Michael You could do that, but actually I didn't mean that the processing would happen first and produce a processed version of your library, but instead that the computer would simply do the processing more or less as you listened (that's what I meant by faster than real time). So that way you could dynamically adjust the filter if you had a reason to, not to mention many other possibilities. For example, you might want to filter multiple channels of audio while watching a movie in surround sound, and that would be very easy to add to a computer-based implementation like this, and very hard to add to a harware one like TacT. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
It seems to me there is one advantage of computer equalization which hasn't been discussed here, namely that the processing is not done in real time on an isynchronous audio signal, but instead in faster than real time on the audio file on the computer. One advantage of that is that it eliminates the jitter which would be induced by a digital box in the audio chain. Probably more importantly, it gives you much more flexibility in the type of filters and effects which could be applied. I wonder whether in the future such devices will perform functions such as dynamically adjusting levels and equalization filters depending on your current position in the room... -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
ScottMayo Wrote: Nobody gets a room flat from 100-18k using foam. Foam does next to nothing for bass. People who can get to +/-5db using real room treatments *and* EQ are doing quite well. Untreated rooms often swing 20db or more, even with EQ. Scott Oh dear, I do apologise...I meant 200-18kHz http://www.isvr.co.uk/faciliti/lg_anech.htm ...and I can get within +/-1.5dB from 18Hz-20KHz with NO foam and no uglybass traps... The day when all my (expensive) studio sound treatments went to the landfill was a very happy one! -- Phil Leigh Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
From cusory examination the plug-in did not seem to offer sufficicent precision (# of band of eq) or types of eq. In contrast the DEQ9624 provides 31 band graphic eq, also parametric eq, and shelving type filters. All have independent Left right processing. It also offers dynamics processing (compression, expansion, gating, limiting) but these are not generally useful to me. We toyed with the spatial expansion feature but found it pretty useless. As to the freq response I mentioned. All things are relative. By using the adjustments on the back of the monitors, which being actively powered have several controls, we were able to achieve something like +/- 4db at the listening position. Is that perfect? No. But it's pretty good compared to other situations that we've encountered. My point was that it was flat enough that we didn't feel the purchase of the borrowed eq was warranted. Fred (owner of said eq) recently built a lovely pair of speakers from a kit. He bought the eq to get a quantitative idea of their performance in his listening room, and improve it if possible. His eq curves apply a very different correction than that created for my room gear. My home office is a 400 sq ft space with vaulted ceiling, thin carpet on the floor, lotsa drywall surfaces and two sets of french style patio doors. Overly reflective I'd guess. My next project will be to install some traps absorbtive panels. Opening the french doors completely changes the room as one entire side is approx 60% removed. Projection of music into the yard is very nice. Low end reproduction is much improvedat the cost of all the outside nose. Michael -- mgraves mgraves's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4078 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
Another consideration, I'm partial to having physical knobs to twiddle in real-time. Comes from a music recording background and working at TV stations for years. Perhaps the plug-in is more capable than I thought initially. Nonetheless, I was able to satisfy myself that the Behringer monitoring hardware was a decent purchase. Michael -- mgraves mgraves's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4078 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
mgraves Wrote: Nonetheless, I was able to satisfy myself that the Behringer monitoring hardware was a decent purchase. Agreed. I spec'd their B2031's for a small classroom installation and was really impressed by their performance. -- azinck3 azinck3's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3967 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
radish Wrote: Because inexpensive != free? Even if the Behringer costs $100, what if I want to use DRC on every squeezebox in my apartment? That's plenty of cash. Free is better :) True enough. But at the very least, you're going to have to buy a microphone! -- Mike Anderson 'FREE RADICAL RADIO!' (http://nvo.com/cd) Hours of free radical MP3s. Mike Anderson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1705 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
Mike Anderson Wrote: True enough. But at the very least, you're going to have to buy a microphone! ...and a mic pre/phantom power source, then feed that into something like a USB port that can drive a RTA program on your PC. -- Ben Diss Ben Diss's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4289 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
Mike Anderson Wrote: True enough. But at the very least, you're going to have to buy a microphone! Which I would also need if I used the Behringer. And I already have a mixer which takes XLR mics and does phantom power so no problem there. The point is, replacing the $300 Behringer with a free piece of software will save $300 from whatever the total cost of the solution is. -- radish radish's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=77 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
radish wrote: The point is, replacing the $300 Behringer with a free piece of software will save $300 from whatever the total cost of the solution is. And allow us to continue to make use of the SB's internal DAC. --rt ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
Free is only better than $300 if they are equivalent solutions. They aren't. Two weeks ago my brother-in-law brought in his DEQ9624 and reference mic to test my SB setup. I have SB3 feeding a small Soundcraft mixer with Behringer 2031A self-powered monitors and a pair of the matching powered subwoofers. We spent an afternoon listening, testing, moving things around the room and adjusting the settings in the monitors. In the end we confirmed that the admitedly inexpensive Behriner monitors are relatively flat from 100hz to 18khz, with a little peak 18-20khz. Sufficiently flat that purchase of a DEQ myself seems unwarranted. The various adjustments on the monitors provided more than adequate control to flatten everything our. Then adjust to taste a little bit. The reference mic doesn't respond well below 100hz so the DEQ really can't be used to tune a subwoofer setup. All in all I was very pleased with the measured performance of the Behringer stuff. Not bad for an investment of $1000. As for the DEQ, it certainly looks like a nice box. It's not even a bad value. It would benefit from having an integrated PC interface, even a web based set of controls. Perhaps someone will create a similar device on a PCI card...or even USB 2.0 interface? That'd be very nice. It seems clear that the same sort of DSP that one finds in the DEQ9624 could easily be deployed in other solutions, perhaps with better UI or wider range of functions. Michael -- mgraves mgraves's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4078 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
Free is only better than $300 if they are equivalent solutions. They aren't. Two weeks ago my brother-in-law brought in his DEQ9624 and reference mic to test my SB setup. I have SB3 feeding a small Soundcraft mixer with Behringer 2031A self-powered monitors and a pair of the matching powered subwoofers. We spent an afternoon listening, testing, moving things around the room and adjusting the settings in the monitors. In the end we confirmed that the admitedly inexpensive Behriner monitors are relatively flat from 100hz to 18khz, with a little peak 18-20khz. Sufficiently flat that purchase of a DEQ myself seems unwarranted. The various adjustments on the monitors provided more than adequate control to flatten everything our. Then adjust to taste a little bit. The reference mic doesn't respond well below 100hz so the DEQ really can't be used to tune a subwoofer setup. All in all I was very pleased with the measured performance of the Behringer stuff. Not bad for an investment of $1000. As for the DEQ, it certainly looks like a nice box. It's not even a bad value. It would benefit from having an integrated PC interface, even a web based set of controls. Perhaps someone will create a similar device on a PCI card...or even USB 2.0 interface? That'd be very nice. It seems clear that the same sort of DSP that one finds in the DEQ9624 could easily be deployed in other solutions, perhaps with better UI or wider range of functions. Michael -- mgraves mgraves's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4078 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
mgraves Wrote: ...It would benefit from having an integrated PC interface, even a web based set of controls. Michael I think you can drive it via midi control. -- dwc dwc's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1892 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
mgraves Wrote: Free is only better than $300 if they are equivalent solutions. They aren't. In what way? You didn't explain that at all. -- radish radish's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=77 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
Phil Leigh Wrote: Are you saying that you think your room is substantially flat from 100-18Khz? - must be fun living with all those funny shaped bits of foam on the floor, ceiling and walls... :o) Nobody gets a room flat from 100-18k using foam. Foam does next to nothing for bass. People who can get to +/-5db using real room treatments *and* EQ are doing quite well. Untreated rooms often swing 20db or more, even with EQ. Scott www.obsessionaudio.com -- ScottMayo ScottMayo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3605 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
To get close to the TACT approach, independant treatment of l/r channels is a must. Also, l-r delay is required. -- Phil Leigh Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
opaqueice Wrote: It seems that we SB users have a far more attractive option available - to run a room correction system on the computer, *asynchronously*, and then stream the corrected file to the SB. In other words, calibrate by measuring the room response with a test signal and microphone, and use that and the desired frequency response curve to generate a filter. Then have a SB plugin which convolves the source file with the filter (in faster than real time) and streams it to the SB. I think you nailed it. There are lots of reasons I like SqueezeBox. Of course the hardware, which has a really excellent engineering attention to detail, while still being built to an affordable price-point. But the system architecture overall is so nice, and this separation of a medium-power network-connected audio device from the server has a huge amount of flexibility. Then there's been some really smart business thinking from SlimDevices about extending this (the SqueezeNetwork, the Pandora hook-up, etc -- with all their rough edges -- are really great beginnings). Eventually, high-power DSP (powerful enough to process long filters) will be everywhere. I totally expect to see mid-market home stereo amorphous-line-array systems with dozens of loudspeakers per system, each containing wicked powerful processors, coordinating with each other to recreate the sound experience (and doing a better job of it than two channels usually does today). But for now, in a two-channel SB system, the PC is [a] basically free, and [b] easily fast enough to run lots of fancy DSP algorithms. (Powerful enough to run room correction on several squeezeboxes simultaneously). Talking of price-points, I've always been a cheapskate audiophile, and SB lets me play that game. My main system for a long time was a Linn/Basik/K9, to a homebrew triode pre with dumpster-salvaged Naim phono boards, to a salvaged-and-rebuilt Quad 405, to some quite nice hand-me-down Monitor Audio speakers. That all set me back a few hundred quid, back in the day. Now, a SB-based system can give better price/performance below $1000 than anything else on the market. (OK, $1500 or $2000 if you include the computer). And, whatever quality your analog stages, there's a whole lot of value-add in the digital domain too. opaqueice Wrote: Apparently this is already being worked on here: http://www.duffroomcorrection.com/wiki/User:Hpyle Can hpyle or anyone else comment on the progress of it? is it already available for download somewhere? Progress: slow but promising. Not yet downloadable. Of course I'll announce here when there's a generally usable version. dwc Wrote: Looks really cool, but it's a bit crude at 9-channels. [for comparison the DEQ is 31-channels, independent L+R control] The 9-band plugin only stops there because the UI is the INPUT.Bar control (same as the SB volume control, but with a center-zero) for each band. It would be possible to build a vertical-slider-control thingy, but that's beyond my leet perl skillz right now. But the aim of this EQ is just to tailor for personal taste *after* correction filtering has run the early-reflection compensation, the room booms peaks, and so on. Like the old Quad tilt tone control, a gentle touch goes a long way. For most situations (e.g. adjusting for a particular album's balance) I think bass/mid/treb is enough. And although I don't have a shippable quietness control yet, early experiments in that area look likely to solve 90% of my tone-control wants. - Hugh yclept inguz -- inguz inguz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1139 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
inguz Wrote: I think you nailed it. There are lots of reasons I like SqueezeBox. Of course the hardware, which has a really excellent engineering attention to detail, while still being built to an affordable price-point. But the system architecture overall is so nice, and this separation of a medium-power network-connected audio device from the server has a huge amount of flexibility. Then there's been some really smart business thinking from SlimDevices about extending this (the SqueezeNetwork, the Pandora hook-up, etc -- with all their rough edges -- are really great beginnings). Eventually, high-power DSP (powerful enough to process long filters) will be everywhere. I totally expect to see mid-market home stereo amorphous-line-array systems with dozens of loudspeakers per system, each containing wicked powerful processors, coordinating with each other to recreate the sound experience (and doing a better job of it than two channels usually does today). But for now, in a two-channel SB system, the PC is [a] basically free, and [b] easily fast enough to run lots of fancy DSP algorithms. (Powerful enough to run room correction on several squeezeboxes simultaneously). Talking of price-points, I've always been a cheapskate audiophile, and SB lets me play that game. My main system for a long time was a Linn/Basik/K9, to a homebrew triode pre with dumpster-salvaged Naim phono boards, to a salvaged-and-rebuilt Quad 405, to some quite nice hand-me-down Monitor Audio speakers. That all set me back a few hundred quid, back in the day. Now, a SB-based system can give better price/performance below $1000 than anything else on the market. (OK, $1500 or $2000 if you include the computer). And, whatever quality your analog stages, there's a whole lot of value-add in the digital domain too. Progress: slow but promising. Not yet downloadable. Of course I'll announce here when there's a generally usable version. The 9-band plugin only stops there because the UI is the INPUT.Bar control (same as the SB volume control, but with a center-zero) for each band. It would be possible to build a vertical-slider-control thingy, but that's beyond my leet perl skillz right now. But the aim of this EQ is just to tailor for personal taste *after* correction filtering has run the early-reflection compensation, the room booms peaks, and so on. Like the old Quad tilt tone control, a gentle touch goes a long way. For most situations (e.g. adjusting for a particular album's balance) I think bass/mid/treb is enough. And although I don't have a shippable quietness control yet, early experiments in that area look likely to solve 90% of my tone-control wants. - Hugh yclept inguz The possibilities are exciting. Thanks for all of your work in this area, Hugh. -- azinck3 azinck3's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3967 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
azinck3 Wrote: The possibilities are exciting. Thanks for all of your work in this area, Hugh. Yeah, I second that. For a while now I've been considering spending some money on a room-correction device, but I think this has the potential to be a superior solution. I'd be happy to pay for the software (although I'd be even happier if it was free!) and/or volunteer as a guinea pig/tester. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
opaqueice wrote: azinck3 Wrote: The possibilities are exciting. Thanks for all of your work in this area, Hugh. Agreed. I'm very interested in trying this. I might even have tried out the DEQ, but I like using the analog outs on my SB2s. Using the DEQ would mean either using it's internal DAC or pairing it with another external DAC. I doubt the DEQ's DAC is as good as the SB2's, and an external DAC might be nice, but it's not in the budget right now. The approach of using the SlimServer computer to do the processing makes more sense to me. The computing power is already paid for, and by doing the processing upstream of the SB, I can continue to use it's DAC. --rt ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
inguz Wrote: Eventually, high-power DSP (powerful enough to process long filters) will be everywhere. The Behringer DEQ2496 is pretty inexpensive. And it can do all the processing in the digital domain, in 1/3rd octave gradations. Why do I even need to involve my computer at this point? Anybody who's looking for an inexpensive, convenient solution should really check this out first. I stick my Behringer between the digital outs of the Squeezebox and the digital inputs of a Benchmark DAC1. It's all digital, and it sounds awesome. -- Mike Anderson 'FREE RADICAL RADIO!' (http://nvo.com/cd) Hours of free radical MP3s. Mike Anderson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1705 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
Mike Anderson Wrote: The Behringer DEQ2496 is pretty inexpensive. And it can do all the processing in the digital domain, in 1/3rd octave gradations. Why do I even need to involve my computer at this point? Because inexpensive != free? Even if the Behringer costs $100, what if I want to use DRC on every squeezebox in my apartment? That's plenty of cash. Free is better :) -- radish radish's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=77 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
Looks really cool, but it's a bit crude at 9-channels. [for comparison the DEQ is 31-channels, independent L+R control] It would be great to see this idea developed, but it looks like some serious coding and a serious load on the CPU to run in stream. -Dan -- dwc dwc's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1892 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
dwc Wrote: Looks really cool, but it's a bit crude at 9-channels. [for comparison the DEQ is 31-channels, independent L+R control] It would be great to see this idea developed, but it looks like some serious coding and a serious load on the CPU to run in stream. -Dan Perhaps, but the brutefir documentation claims to be *very* efficient: http://www.ludd.luth.se/~torger/brutefir.html#howfast I'll confess that I don't know what really constitutes a tap...but I'm being wooed by the large numbers! -- azinck3 azinck3's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3967 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
dwc Wrote: Looks really cool, but it's a bit crude at 9-channels. [for comparison the DEQ is 31-channels, independent L+R control] It would be great to see this idea developed, but it looks like some serious coding and a serious load on the CPU to run in stream. -Dan About the load on the CPU, please correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem like much to me. 16 bit audio is 1.4 megabits/second of data. Applying one of these filters means taking the Fourier transform, multiplying by the filter, and then taking the inverse transform. Even using standard FT (rather than FFT) the number of operations should scale as the number of bits, so we're talking about millions of operations per second, which is peanuts for today's GHz CPU's, no? -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: digital room correction
I've had very good results using the Behringer DEQ2496. Unfortunately, on the topic of room correction the manual leaves a lot to be desired. Here's my little primer: http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=16568 -- Mike Anderson 'FREE RADICAL RADIO!' (http://nvo.com/cd) Hours of free radical MP3s. Mike Anderson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1705 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
