Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC recordings available here
I DL'd some of the 'trial' product as ALAC and some of it wouldn't play in SC until I 're-converted' it to ALAC again. Something strange in their file headers, me thinks. Tagging is also why I decided to do ALAC instead of FLAC. Fixing everything in iTunes is how I prefer to handle it. Of course, I am on a Mac and know that PC users have a lot of other options for this. ;-) -- Eric Seaberg Eric Seaberg - San Diego A.E.S., S.M.P.T.E., S.P.A.R.S. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Eric Seaberg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7896 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=50413 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC recordings available here
Eric Seaberg;324687 Wrote: http://www.shedworking.co.uk/2007/11/peter-gabriel-shed-of-your-dreams.html Hey Eric, while you're there, could you tell Peter to tell BW to learn to tag? The first one had at least Album and artist tags, the rest had no tags. Then they went from .jpg to pdf for artwork which is great if you are going to make a cd but useless for enbedding. The seem to have only partially embraced the digital world thinking everyone is going to burn a cd from the files and not use them like we do. The sound quality has been good especially for the engineers that let go of the sound war thinking. Have fun, I'm very jealous. :) -- Nonreality -IF THE RULE YOU FOLLOWED BROUGHT YOU TO THIS, OF WHAT USE IS THE RULE.- HTTP://www.last.fm/user/nonreality Nonreality's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15723 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=50413 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC recordings available here
Hi Eric, I'm giving the three month trial a go - if it's up to scratch it could save me a lot of money on CD's - what is your connection with Pete Gabriel ? -- pkfox When the going gets weird - the weird turn pro. Hunter S Thompson pkfox's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5346 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=50413 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC recordings available here
Hi Eric, I got the full tour of Gabriel's studio a few years back. It's by no means a home studio. There are a number of different recording areas, each with it's own unique sound and space. The studio manager is also hifi friendly, and they have paid a lot of attention to various things, such as the way the earthing is arranged - it all runs into the lake!!! All in all, an excellent studio, well run, with a really chilled out vibe in a beautiful area of England. -- bigfool1956 David Ayers Music is what counts, hifi just helps us enjoy it more bigfool1956's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13782 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=50413 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC recordings available here
Peter had finished a 'loft', of sorts, off of his home... I should've specified it wasn't the main studio. The plans have been made available and, actually, the whole 25'x25' building was being given away loaded with gear and instruments as part of a promotion at last October's AES convention in NYC. I'll see if I can find info about it a post a link. It was quite awesome. Peter did show up in NYC for a couple of days to promote it. Of course it had a new SSL AWS900 in it. back on topic I, too, have downloaded the free EP files. Haven't had a chance to listen yet. Looks like a great concept. I wish more producers would make stuff available like this. -- Eric Seaberg Eric Seaberg - San Diego A.E.S., S.M.P.T.E., S.P.A.R.S. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Eric Seaberg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7896 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=50413 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC recordings available here
If I remember rightly, the 'shed' is in the grounds of the studio. Hope you enjoy your trip Eric. -- bigfool1956 David Ayers Music is what counts, hifi just helps us enjoy it more bigfool1956's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13782 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=50413 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC recordings available here
http://www.shedworking.co.uk/2007/11/peter-gabriel-shed-of-your-dreams.html -- Eric Seaberg Eric Seaberg - San Diego A.E.S., S.M.P.T.E., S.P.A.R.S. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Eric Seaberg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7896 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=50413 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC recordings available here
The link has been changed. I'm actually going to the UK early September to confirm testing of our new remote audio console (the one in my pic to the left). Peter Gabriel owns the company (Solid State Logic) and I'm planning on spending some time with him at dinner one evening while I'm there. His home studio is pretty amazing as I've seen pictures of it before. Sorry... I just had to do a look at what I get to do to ya!! ;-) -- Eric Seaberg Eric Seaberg - San Diego - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Eric Seaberg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7896 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=50413 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
david_a_woodward;316973 Wrote: Hi there, I hope someone can help, Ive read a fair few posts, but as is often the way cant find the info I am looking for. I am new to ripping, I have a collection of about 500 CDs and I am on the brink of lashing out some hard earned cash on SB3/Duet/Transporter (3 rooms) and TranquilPC T2-WHS-A3i (unless anyone recommends a better alternative), so should not have space constraints? I have always been a keen audiophile with a Michell GyroDec, CD2/82/250/SBL Naim system, this is where I plan to add the Transporter, (can I share the Duet remote with the Transporter, SB3 and Duet systems?) I am looking for the best quality I can achieve, but I do not want to spend too long discovering (and learning) the best suite of amazing software programs that appear to be available to use, nor labouring over very slow rip/tagging. I do want to view cover art on the duet controller and would like to easily move some/all(?) of the ripped CDs to a, yet to purchased, ipod. So what is my dilemma? I gather, but may have got the wrong end of the stick, the two obvious choices are to use iTunes, seems to be viewed as the easiest and simplest workflow in ripping, tagging, cover art etc in ALAC loseless format, or go down the, what appears to be, much more daunting sounding, EAC/FLAC/various other tools for cover art extraction etc route. I am not too concerned about being locked into Apples proprietary approach provided it works well with SB technology, and makes my life easier to transfer my CD library. I am keen to know the pros and cons of each approach, so I can make a better informed decision. Thank you all in advance for you valued comments. The simple thing to do is use dBpowerAmp to Rip and tag your files in FLAC format. FLAC converts to almost anything else you might ever need and allows you to stay far away from iTunes. -- iPhone *iPhone* 'Last.FM' (http://www.last.fm/user/mephone) Media Room: Transporter, VTL TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, Ayre MX-R Mono Blocks, Vandersteen Quatro, VeraStarr 6.4SE 6-channel Amp, VCC-5 Reference Center, four VSM-1 Signatures, Runco RS 900 CineWide AutoScope 2.35:1 Living Room: Duet, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold, Vandersteen Model 3A Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1 Bedroom: SB3, NAD C370, Thiel 2.3 Home Office: SB3, Parasound Vamp v.3, VSM-1 Sigs Mobile: SB3, Audioengine A5 iPhone's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13622 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
Wow, thanks for all the help, very active forum!! thought a question about iTunes v open standards might provoke some debate! I have downloaded dbpoweramp and am very impressed, seen enough to decide this is the way to go, and rip to FLAC and also MP3 for iPod. Just need to figure out how I get the MP3's into iTunes, I assume this is straight forward? Anyone got any views as to the suitability of the TranquilPC T2-WHS-A3i? Any better alternative at a similar price point? Thanks again for all your input. -- david_a_woodward david_a_woodward's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18576 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
Phil Leigh;317064 Wrote: There are some discs with flawed copy protection schemas that need many many sector re-reads to get the data off acurately... For example, I have The Beatles Let it Be Naked that takes 2 hours to rip with EAC and the disc is in physically mint condition! Well I did say IME. :) Perhaps I'm spoiled with cdparanoia on Linux...the following sums up my views. http://folk.uio.no/hpv/linuxtoons/dilbert-unix.png Darren -- darrenyeats SB3 / Inguz - Krell KAV-300i (pre bypass) - PMC AB-1 Dell laptop - JVC UX-C30 mini system darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
david_a_woodward;317191 Wrote: Wow, thanks for all the help, very active forum!! thought a question about iTunes v open standards might provoke some debate! Ah now see you posted in the Audiophile forums. If you wanted some debate you should ask if a $10,000 power cord for your refrigerator will improve the sound of your Transporter. -- m1abrams m1abrams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=850 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
darrenyeats;317288 Wrote: Well I did say IME. :) Perhaps I'm spoiled with cdparanoia on Linux...the following sums up my view. http://folk.uio.no/hpv/linuxtoons/dilbert-unix.png Darren That made me laugh - thanks Darren! -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
sc53;317065 Wrote: But if it takes 20 mins per disc (Apple Lossless takes about 5 mins per disk) or requires tons of initial setup etc. I'd use iTunes and not worry about that one track out of thousands that may contain an audible error. There are two separate processes here - ripping and encoding. Apple Lossless doesn't rip, iTunes does. iTunes then encodes the resulting rip into Apple Lossless or MP3. Programs other than iTunes (dBpowerAMP for example) can also encode into ALAC. The speed of ripping doesn't influence the speed of encoding. In terms of encoding speed, there aren't huge advantages in any one format. For example, when FLAC was slower than ALAC it was changed and now is at least as fast. Personally, I don't really care how long ripping takes as long as it's as correct as possible. You can leave your computer and go do other things. Often those protected CDs take ~24 hours to rip... ps Phil Leigh--I have Let It Be Naked too and had no problems ripping it with iTunes! These protected CDs usually contain purposeful errors every 2-5 seconds. This shows that iTunes will happily rip such errors and not tell you. A secure ripper will have a problem with this because it will detect the errors and attempt to correct them, that's the point of this protection mechanism - to frustrate the user and discourage ripping. These errors are not necessarily audible, but they are there. -- Mark Lanctot Mark Lanctot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
I'm not sure I follow the reasoning here. If iTunes and other less secure rippers popular with the general public do not get hung up on such purposeful errors - where is the deterrent value in their inclusion? Or are the record companies trying to deter the admittedly small percentage of people in the marketplace who are concerned about their rips not being bit-perfect? Shouldn't their efforts be focused on deterring the common user? Ted -- esbrewer esbrewer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
esbrewer;317310 Wrote: I'm not sure I follow the reasoning here. If iTunes and other less secure rippers popular with the general public do not get hung up on such purposeful errors - where is the deterrent value in their inclusion? Well, record companies aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer, are they? :-) It was a hairbrained scheme that was in use from 2003 to about 2005. The idea was that these errors (probably only a few bits) would be inaudible in a regular CD player but that a ripper would stumble on them. Rippers who don't do any error correction won't stumble on them because they just play straight through like a regular CD player does, errors and all. Or are the record companies trying to deter the admittedly small percentage of people in the marketplace who are concerned about their rips not being bit-perfect? Shouldn't their efforts be focused on deterring the common user? They've abandoned such schemes now, but it culminated in the infamous Sony rootkit debacle. That's as far as they went and they definitely crossed the line. -- Mark Lanctot Mark Lanctot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
esbrewer;317310 Wrote: I'm not sure I follow the reasoning here. If iTunes and other less secure rippers popular with the general public do not get hung up on such purposeful errors - where is the deterrent value in their inclusion? Or are the record companies trying to deter the admittedly small percentage of people in the marketplace who are concerned about their rips not being bit-perfect? Shouldn't their efforts be focused on deterring the common user? Ted Well I not sure about insecure rippers handling those CDs well. I have a CD that has this attempt at DRM in place and I did rip it with iTunes and it ripped very quickly however when I played it back it was full of pops and clicks. Ran it through EAC and it took almost a day to rip, but was clean when it finished. -- m1abrams m1abrams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=850 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
m1abrams;317316 Wrote: Well I not sure about insecure rippers handling those CDs well. I have a CD that has this attempt at DRM in place and I did rip it with iTunes and it ripped very quickly however when I played it back it was full of pops and clicks. Ran it through EAC and it took almost a day to rip, but was clean when it finished. There were multiple schemes from different companies and they got better at what they were trying to do as time went on. Googling finds this list: SafeDisc, SafeDisc v2, SecuROM, DiscGuard, CD-Cops, LaserLock, Cactus Data Shield, Lock Blocks, ProtectCD, PSX/Lybcrypt, CD-Check, Dummy Files, Oversize Illegal TOC There once was a software tool out there that could identify what type of protection was on a disc. Couldn't do anything about it though. -- Mark Lanctot Mark Lanctot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
m1abrams;317316 Wrote: Well I not sure about insecure rippers handling those CDs well. I have a CD that has this attempt at DRM in place and I did rip it with iTunes and it ripped very quickly however when I played it back it was full of pops and clicks. Ran it through EAC and it took almost a day to rip, but was clean when it finished. Different drives always used to make a difference. I bought loads of CDs from cdwow.com before I realised they had copy protection - the best thing to rip them with back then (that I found) was CDex, set to full paranoia, autorun off and an old NEC drive. Normal speed rips, and only 2-3 clicks in the last track. Now I'm another dBpoweramp convert, I've found that secure mode doesn't work so well with these - whereas Burst mode rips them fine with no audible artifacts. I used to take the rips are rips view and used iTunes. But dBpoweramp is easier, and the fact that you can verify it's 100% bit-perfect is a nice bonus. Before I was ripping to ALAC in iTunes, deleting the files from iTunes, tagging them with mp3tag (embedding artwork at the same time), adding them back to iTunes, using iTunes to convert them to AAC for my iPod (dual library). Argh! Now dBpoweramp lets me do all of that securely in one go with one mouse-click with artwork and whatever file/folder structure I like, and ALAC and mp3 at the same time and did I mention the artwork? Then all I do is drag the folder into iTunes. Done. Seriously, dBpoweramp is really, -really- good - and Spoon (the man behind it) is on his forums all the time, he listens and actions requests/problems etc, and best of all you can download it and try it for free for about 2 weeks! I'm not affiliated to Illustrate at all, btw, but it's amazing how much time I've saved using dBpoweramp. -- moley6knipe 2 x SqueezeBox 3 | 1 x SqueezeCenter 7 | 1 x Win XP Pro SP2 | 1 x Happy listener :-) moley6knipe's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10014 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
My opinion: 1) If you're not 100% tied to iTunes, use FLAC. 2) If you're serious about sound quality, don't use iTunes for ripping. I use dbpoweramp to rip to FLAC for the main library, then the flac2mp3 script to create a low bitrate mp3 copy of everything which is seen by iTunes for loading onto portables. -- radish radish's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=77 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
Here's a similar discussion: http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6493742 -- alekz alekz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13574 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
radish;316977 Wrote: 2) If you're serious about sound quality, don't use iTunes for ripping. That's an interesting comment. Surely if any other ripping tool were being used it would be using the same drive and unless the CD were damaged, there would be very little error concealment going on, only error correction, which by definition fixes up any read errors. Why would iTunes be worse? It's always worked well for me. -- CardinalFang CardinalFang's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=962 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
I use Dbpoweramp to rip to ALAC, I use iTunes to manage the music. Dbpoweramp will allow you to rip to either Flac or ALAC. DBpoweramp is a much better ripper than iTunes it has both secure, ultra secure and accuraterip checking, iTunes has none of these important ripping tools. As far as sound quality flac=ALAC I've tried ripping to both and though a good system ( Plinius, Proac, Meridian, PS Audio etc) I could here no difference. Hope this helps. -- ErikM ErikM's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7576 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
dbpoweramp is probably the best bet for ripping right now. I have not seen a program that does better for metadata than dbpoweramp including getting coverart. And for secure ripping it does a great job. For your needs I would recommend the reference version. I wish I had dbpoweramp when I started ripping music many years ago! As for FLAC versus ALAC. For sound quality it does not matter one bit. For playback support is where it matters. What will you play the songs back the most on? Squeezebox or iTunes? If Squeezebox use FLAC, if iTunes use ALAC. Since FLAC and ALAC are lossless you can convert between the two whenever you want and not lose any quality. If you have dbpoweramp it is as simple as selecting the folder where you music resides and say convert, it even handles your metadata and coverart. -- m1abrams m1abrams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=850 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
Forgot to add you can use the Squeezebox controller to control ANY Squeezebox device including the transporter. This even includes the original Slimp3. Heck you can use it to control Softsqueeze. The controller actually does not control the players them self directly it tells the server to control the players. The same is true for the IR remotes for the players. The player has the IR receiver but it just sends the IR info back to the server and then the server tells the player what to do. This is how you can remap the IR codes on the server itself. -- m1abrams m1abrams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=850 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
CardinalFang;316984 Wrote: That's an interesting comment. Surely if any other ripping tool were being used it would be using the same drive and unless the CD were damaged, there would be very little error concealment going on, only error correction, which by definition fixes up any read errors. Why would iTunes be worse? It's always worked well for me. The issue is handling read errors. It is actually very difficult to detect a read error for audio CDs. Some drives handle errors better than others, however non of them are consistent in how they handle the errors. You can get read errors from a brand new CD. What programs like EAC and dbpoweramp do is read the data over and over until they get the same result back a certain number of times. Which is why they are slower. They also do things like fluch the drives cache to avoid rereading the cache data. Drive offset is another thing to take into account too, each drive has a different offset value. dbpoweramp determines this by comparing your drives read of certain key discs to other drives results it keeps on a server. It also uses this data on the server to determine if your reads for a certain disc corresponds to other peoples reads of the same disc to help identify if you get a good read. He says it better: http://www.dbpoweramp.com/spoons-audio-guide-cd-ripping.htm -- m1abrams m1abrams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=850 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
CardinalFang;316994 Wrote: But it's only an issue if error correction isn't sufficient. Most CDs require error correction, which iTunes handles, very few require concealment or multiple reads to get the data. If error correction is working, then there should be no difference between rippers, it's only when CDs are so badly damaged that error concealment is required, and that's when re-reads and interpolation etc. come in and iTunes may be insufficient. For the vast majority of CDs, I don't think that's the case. No see that is what you are missing Redbook audio really does not have any way to handle error corrections. When audio CDs came out technology did not exist that could handle and correct errors fast enough for streamed audio. So the thought was if a read error occurs who cares too late to fix it keep on trucking. -- m1abrams m1abrams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=850 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
m1abrams;317006 Wrote: No see that is what you are missing Redbook audio really does not have any way to handle error corrections. When audio CDs came out technology did not exist that could handle and correct errors fast enough for streamed audio. So the thought was if a read error occurs who cares too late to fix it keep on trucking. Because of this the data on an audio CD does not contain any parity bits or the like, so the C2 error handling is at best a bandaid on the problem. Indeed - they stopped putting those error displays on CD players pretty quickly! Redbook is different to everything that came later. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
I see errors that need dbpoweramps's special touch frequently, even on brand new CDs. If I were using iTunes (or any other non-secure ripper) I wouldn't even know there was an issue until/unless I actually heard it. My wife ripped a bunch of CDs with iTunes before we met and I'm now going back through re-doing them with dbp, it's amazing how many tracks she had with pops/cracks which she thought was normal - and that's just the easily audible problems. I'm sure there are many more subtle faults which a good system would reveal. If you're spending $ on gear you may as well spend $20 to make sure the data's right in the first place. -- radish radish's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=77 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
m1abrams;317006 Wrote: No see that is what you are missing Redbook audio really does not have any way to handle error corrections. When audio CDs came out technology did not exist that could handle and correct errors fast enough for streamed audio. So the thought was if a read error occurs who cares too late to fix it keep on trucking. Because of this the data on an audio CD does not contain any parity bits or the like, so the C2 error handling is at best a bandaid on the problem. That's not entirely true - the error correction happens in the CD PLAYER during real-time playback. If there is a frame or two that are corrupt (@ 75-frames per second) then the player interpolates its BEST GUESS of what should fill the 'hole' based on what was happening before or after the error. Ripping doesn't have error correction for audio, but I think you already said that. -- Eric Seaberg Eric Seaberg - San Diego - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Eric Seaberg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7896 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
Eric Seaberg;317024 Wrote: That's not entirely true - the error correction happens in the CD PLAYER during real-time playback. If there is a frame or two that are corrupt (@ 75-frames per second) then the player interpolates its BEST GUESS of what should fill the 'hole' based on what was happening before or after the error. Ripping doesn't have error correction for audio, but I think you already said that. Good point Eric. Interpolation works reasonably well for audio. Not so good for CD-Roms though...hence yellowbook etc -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
m1abrams;317006 Wrote: No see that is what you are missing Redbook audio really does not have any way to handle error corrections. Nope, RedBook does indeed contain error correction. This is from a HP CDROM technical paper, but there are plenty of other references: Because the CD-ROM disk has a very high bit density, it has an inherent error rate of [10.sup.-5] to [10.sup.-6] errors per bit. The red book standard, which has become International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC) standard 908, specifies the CD audio media format and provides a parity and error correction scheme that reduces the error rate to 10-11 to [10.sup.-12] errors per bit. All CD manufacturers provide this level of error protection. -- CardinalFang CardinalFang's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=962 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
CardinalFang;317030 Wrote: Nope, RedBook does indeed contain error correction - and iTunes has an option to use it. This is from a HP CDROM technical paper, but there are plenty of other references: Because the CD-ROM disk has a very high bit density, it has an inherent error rate of [10.sup.-5] to [10.sup.-6] errors per bit. The red book standard, which has become International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC) standard 908, specifies the CD audio media format and provides a parity and error correction scheme that reduces the error rate to 10-11 to [10.sup.-12] errors per bit. All CD manufacturers provide this level of error protection. My point is that errors can be corrected by any ripper if they're not too bad, it's only when they are bad enough to need concealment that the rippers that can go back and re-read or interpolate have an advantage. I just believe that most CD aren't that badly damaged. They all have errors, but most are corrected. Bottom line is this, would you want to spend the time to rip 500 CDs and possibly have errors in the data but really have no way to know until you listen to each and every track. Or use a proper program and rip 500 CDs and know that you have no errors in the data. -- m1abrams m1abrams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=850 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
CardinalFang;317030 Wrote: Nope, RedBook does indeed contain error correction True, Redbook does contain a certain level of error correction. But if you read through the specs further, this level was deemed un-satisfactory for data CD's, where it's impossible to cover up errors by interpolation or other techniques. As a result, data CD's have a secondary level of error checking/correction, not found on music discs. Like others here have posted, I have many examples of CD's which have no visible damage, yet have tracks which are difficult to get a bit perfect rip. That's why I always use EAC to rip, both to FLAC for Squeeze, and to iTunes. YMMV, Dave -- DCtoDaylight Audiophile wish list: Zero Distortion, Infinite Signal to Noise Ratio, and a Bandwidth from DC to Daylight DCtoDaylight's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7284 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
Whatever the failings of red book good rippers have it nailed. In short, rubbish CD drives can get bit-perfect rips with cdparanoia or similar rippers. The drive offset has nothing to do with SQ at all. It might affect micro-seconds in terms of when a track starts, I don't stress about it myself. IME the only time you don't get perfect rips (and then only sometimes) is with scratched discs. This is IME true no matter what the computer or drive including DVD drives. A good clean disc = perfect rip according to the many checks I've made (using cksum on Unix to compare bit-level content - the drive offset must be right for such tests of course). EAC and the like might be useful if you've got somewhat scratched discs. I don't have much experience of the iTunes ripper, I'm just letting you know what happens with a decent ripper. Darren -- darrenyeats SB3 / Inguz - Krell KAV-300i (pre bypass) - PMC AB-1 Dell laptop - JVC UX-C30 mini system darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
darrenyeats;317047 Wrote: EAC and the like might be useful if you've got somewhat scratched discs. This is what I do not get, why would you use any other ripper then? Chances are everyone will come across a CD that needs the error handling that EAC, cdparanoia and dbpoweramp provide. So why not just pick one and use it? -- m1abrams m1abrams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=850 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
darrenyeats;317047 Wrote: Whatever the failings of red book good rippers have it nailed. In short, rubbish CD drives can get bit-perfect rips with cdparanoia or similar rippers. The drive offset has nothing to do with SQ at all. It might affect micro-seconds in terms of when a track starts, I don't stress about it myself. IME the only time you don't get perfect rips (and then only sometimes) is with scratched discs. This is IME true no matter what the computer or drive including DVD drives. A good clean disc = perfect rip according to the many checks I've made (using cksum on Unix to compare bit-level content - the drive offset must be right for such tests of course). EAC and the like might be useful if you've got somewhat scratched discs. I don't have much experience of the iTunes ripper, I'm just letting you know what happens with a decent ripper. Darren There are some discs with flawed copy protection schemas that need many many sector re-reads to get the data off acurately... For example, I have The Beatles Let it Be Naked that takes 2 hours to rip with EAC and the disc is in physically mint condition! -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
I'm a keen audiophile too and have owned lots of good equipment over the years. I started ripping some of my CDs to iTunes about 6 yrs ago when I got my first iPod. I've always used Apple Lossless even on my iPods--I don't try to get my whole music collection on the thing, just what I fancy at the time, which can and does change. I've got about 200 GB of music on my iMac now (actually on a Lacie external drive), all ripped to Apple Lossless, and only once did I have a track that popped like a scratched LP when I played it back. In fact, I actually forgot and thought I was listening to an old LP till I did a double take and realized I was in my car listening to my iPod through my fancy car stereo! I reripped that disk and the pop went away. I guess if I was starting from scratch today I'd try dbpoweramp as recommended, to see if it's really as easy as using iTunes on my iMac, my iPods, and my Squeezeboxes. If it really is as painless and easy to use as iTunes then I'd go with it. But if it takes 20 mins per disc (Apple Lossless takes about 5 mins per disk) or requires tons of initial setup etc. I'd use iTunes and not worry about that one track out of thousands that may contain an audible error. Once you find that track, just rerip the disk. All of my music comes from my own CDs anyway so it's no big deal to go browse my shelves (yes I still do that too) and rerip it. I also find the tagging and cover art works perfectly with iTunes. I purchased the Mac program Cover Sutra to find any missing artwork in my iTunes library and that has filled in the 3% of albums (compilations and the like) that iTunes couldn't obtain. ps Phil Leigh--I have Let It Be Naked too and had no problems ripping it with iTunes! -- sc53 sc53's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8690 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
m1abrams;317040 Wrote: Bottom line is this, would you want to spend the time to rip 500 CDs and possibly have errors in the data but really have no way to know until you listen to each and every track. Or use a proper program and rip 500 CDs and know that you have no errors in the data. Also I have found that many CDs have errors, even brand new CDs. They all have errors, but it's whether they can be corrected or not is the issue. iTunes works for me, the only time I ever found an problem, I cleaned the disk and re-ripped it and all was fine. I'm a Mac user and I do run Parallels, so I could use these other rippers, but to be honest I haven't found the need, because when I did trial them they were painfully slow and gave no discernible improvement. The only reason I posted was because it was said that if you care about audio, you shouldn't use iTunes, which is misleading. It only matters if you have disks that error correction can't fix and then a more industrial strength solution is needed. I haven't needed it. I will admit that EAC and the ilk do appeal to the geeky audiophile part of me, but the busy pragmatic side makes me use iTunes because it is a far more pleasant experience. I'd rather be listening than ripping. -- CardinalFang CardinalFang's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=962 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
It doesn't matter how good your stereo is - garbage in garbage out. I find it astonishing that in the same forum as people talk about things like SPDIF jitter and 24-bit digitial volume scaling as being detrimental to sound quality that there's anyone who's unwilling to use a good ripper. Do you really think that all read errors are as obvious as a pop? A few bits off here and there may well not be obvious until you compare to the original CD (and who does that?) but it will make orders of magnitude more difference to the SQ than a dithering volume control. It's like spending $5k on a cartridge but not wiping dust off the record. -- radish radish's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=77 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
CardinalFang;317072 Wrote: I'm a Mac user and I do run Parallels, so I could use these other rippers, but to be honest I haven't found the need, because when I did trial them they were painfully slow and gave no discernible improvement. The only reason I posted was because it was said that if you care about audio, you shouldn't use iTunes, which is misleading. It only matters if you have disks that error correction can't fix and then a more industrial strength solution is needed. I haven't needed it. I will admit that EAC and the ilk do appeal to the geeky audiophile part of me, but the busy pragmatic side makes me use iTunes because it is a far more pleasant experience. I'd rather be listening than ripping. Ah that is the rub, you are on iTunes. iTunes is great if you do EVERYTHING in iTunes, however if you do not drink the koolaid iTunes is a bear to play with. Even though I have and love my iPod, and have a Macbook Pro that I also am found of. iTunes is the worst program I have ever used. It is extremely selfish and thinks that it and only it should ever touch your music. Just the simple task of using an outside ripper to rip your music with iTunes is a pain. Why, because iTunes has no feature to monitor a music folder for new or changed music. It has been awhile since I used iTunes but I seem to remember having many issues with the itunes db just going belly up because I made a minor change to my music without its permission. And your comment that it only matters IF you have disks that need it. Well how do you know if you do or not. Does iTunes tell you hey this disk ripped with pops and cracks? No it does not. So unless you audition each and every disk after you rip it you will not know. If you use a proper ripper like EAC, dbpoweramp, or cdparanoia they will not only do a better job ripping the disk but also give you a nice report. However you must be extremely lucky to own nothing but perfect disks. -- m1abrams m1abrams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=850 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
radish;317085 Wrote: I find it astonishing that in the same forum as people talk about things like SPDIF jitter and 24-bit digitial volume scaling as being detrimental to sound quality that there's anyone who's unwilling to use a good ripper. I do use a good ripper - iTunes. I haven't read anything that says it doesn't rip CDs well. So far it's all hearsay and conjecture, no actual data to back it up. I don't spend $5K on cartridges and don't fuss about room treatments, but equally I don't want to listen to music through a cheap box. However, I have realised during this conversation that I'm probably not an audiophile in the terms that others may view the subject. I'm prefer to enjoy my music, not analyse it and fuss about the nth degree of accuracy. -- CardinalFang CardinalFang's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=962 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
CardinalFang;317087 Wrote: From my standpoint I do use a good ripper - iTunes. I haven't read anything that says it doesn't rip CDs well. So far it's all hearsay and conjecture, no actual data to back it up. I've been checking cds out of the library and ripping them with both iTunes and EAC (one for iPod, one for SB3, and yes, I realize I could convert the flac to mp3, but I find this easier). Obviously, library cds are not in the best shape. I'm using a Plextor PX-716 drive. I'm using iTunes 7.6.2.9 with the use error correction when reading Audio CDs option selected. iTunes has NEVER complained about ANY of the library CDs I have fed it. However, when ripping the same CDs with EAC, about 25% of the CDs have hard read errors that I have to work around by ripping specific tracks without full error correction. Another 25% of the CDs have errors that cause EAC to reread up to 20 times before getting correct data. I've noticed the same pattern with a few of the new CDs I have purchased. None have had hard read errors, but many have required EAC to reread. Since there were known uncorrectable errors on the CDs that iTunes didn't report and couldn't correct, I would say that iTunes wasn't a good choice for reliable lossless ripping. Regards, Kim -- krochat -- Acourate - Inguz DSP - SB3 - GW Labs DSP (96kHz upsampler) - Apogee Big Ben - TacT RCS 2.2X - 2x TacT S2150 - Vandersteen 3a Signature + TacT W210 krochat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6579 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
Oh and back to the OP. Since you have 500 CDs and you want to simplify the ripping process and make it faster. dbpoweramp supports batch ripping using many different types of auto-loaders. While the auto-loaders are not exactly cheap it would make fairly quick and painless work of 500 CDs. I am anal about my metatags however with dbpoweramps tagging system I would actually trust it with batch ripping and getting the tags right. Forgot to mention if you do not want to buy an autoloader, you can set up a machine with multiple cdroms and use those. Rip 2,3,4 or more at a time. -- m1abrams m1abrams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=850 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
m1abrams;317098 Wrote: I am anal about my metatags however with dbpoweramps tagging system I would actually trust it with batch ripping and getting the tags right. I wouldn't and I'm not even remotely anal about tags. While dbPowerAmp is absolutely brilliant and its multiple tagging sources are far more reliable than anything else I have used, they do still need some manual cleaning up on some discs. -- andynormancx Yes, it will. Yes, all of them. Yes, SoftSqueeze as well. What ? I SAID ALL OF THEM ! andynormancx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17417 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
andynormancx;317104 Wrote: I wouldn't and I'm not even remotely anal about tags. While dbPowerAmp is absolutely brilliant and its multiple tagging sources are far more reliable than anything else I have used, they do still need some manual cleaning up on some discs. well i have not used the batch ripper yet. however i think it will give you a report to allow you to tweak the files afterwards. also have you used the llatest ver. with the use of 4 datasources. it really does well. oh another ttrick dbpoweramp does is it can detect hdcds and encode the flac to 24bit to support the 20bit hdcd data. -- m1abrams m1abrams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=850 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
m1abrams;317112 Wrote: well i have not used the batch ripper yet. however i think it will give you a report to allow you to tweak the files afterwards. also have you used the llatest ver. with the use of 4 datasources. it really does well. I haven't used the batch ripper either yet. Yes I am using the latest version with the 4 data sources, but I still have to fix up some discs (though I rarely have to type any titles/artists in myself, just overriding for some tracks which meta data source is used). -- andynormancx Yes, it will. Yes, all of them. Yes, SoftSqueeze as well. What ? I SAID ALL OF THEM ! andynormancx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17417 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
andynormancx;317094 Wrote: Or even better, use the multi encoder functionality to do it all in one go. Very true, and a cool feature. If anyone cares, the reason I don't do it this way is that I sometimes find myself editing tags post-rip (correct a spelling error, normalize a genre, whatever) and I like to be able to do that just in the flac file and rerun the script to sync up the mp3s. That way I know 100% that everything is consistent. One thing I'd also like to throw out there in case it's useful - I use a thing called iTLU (http://itlu.ownz.ch/) to sync the iTunes library to my mp3 directory. If anyone knows of a better tool for the job please let us know :) -- radish radish's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=77 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC or ALAC that is the question!?
andynormancx;317094 Wrote: Or even better, use the multi encoder functionality to do it all in one go. I have dbPowerAmp set up so that it rips flacs into one folder, hi bit rate MP3s into another folder and low bit rate MP3s for my phone into a third folder. All completely automatic once it is setup. Or use dbpoweramp AFTER you have ripped to your entire collection to FLAC and have it convert to mp3 or whatever format for you. Not that either one of the above options is bad or wrong. I actually used to use a perl script I wrote that was very similar to flac2mp3 for just that purpose. However I discovered a better option. Jriver Media Center, a pretty nice media player that supports transcoding to the ipod or other player on the fly. No more trying to keep 2 formats in sync :). -- m1abrams m1abrams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=850 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=49492 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC on a Mac with iTunes - CAN DO!
TwistedWave;313839 Wrote: The native FLAC metadata are not transcoded, however. I understand this is something most of you would be interested in, and I plan to make this work for a future version. Thomas -- This sure would be great if you can get this working. Can I add one enhancement? I keep a cover.jpg file in each album directory -- any chance you could pick this up, too? (I am guessing that many people store album art for FLACs this way). PM me if you'd like me to test anything. Thanks, muski -- muski Transporter via XLR-Bryston BP26DA-Bryston 4B SST-Wilson Watt Puppy 7s Transporter via XLR-Headroom Max Balanced Headphone Amp-Balanced AKG701s muski's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3670 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47878 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC on a Mac with iTunes - CAN DO!
Hi, I installed twistedflac and was amazed about this tricky piece of software. But importing the twistedflac-drive in iTunes they were completely untagged, only the filename is shown. The FLACs were all tagged by MediaMonkey. What has gone wrong? regards Flax -- flax flax's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18258 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47878 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC on a Mac with iTunes - CAN DO!
Not sure what went wrong. I have all of my tags but no artwork. I can live with that. -- kphinney SB3 (x2) and Transporter Rotel RCD-1070 CIAudio DVA-2 w/ VAC-1 PS JoLida 102B Omega Grand 6's AKG K501 kphinney's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47878 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC on a Mac with iTunes - CAN DO!
Thomas, Thank you for the input and for joining this forum. I'm glad to assist in any way possible. I will post one of my files to a web-share site so you can download it and send you the link. (The file length of all of my FLACs are to large to email.) Perhaps you could open a thread on your TwistedFLAC forum and post a link to it here? I think it'd be of more benefit to a larger Twisted audience than it would here and I'm all for getting the word out on this great piece of software. Best, kphinney -- kphinney SB3 (x2) and Transporter Rotel RCD-1070 CIAudio DVA-2 w/ VAC-1 PS JoLida 102B Omega Grand 6's AKG K501 kphinney's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47878 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Flac vs. CD
I was using the car analogy to illustrate a point that numbers do not always prove that there is no difference , but as you say , if there is a difference then your preferences are inviolate. In audio , there is no universal truth, nothing is ever a straight wire with gain and thus whatever is on the media is always distorted or modified in some way before it reaches the listener. There would be no diversity in Audio equipment if that were the case , and even if you are talking digital , where the notion (wrongly) is that the signal is 1's and 0's (its an analog sine wave) , there is diversity in equipment delivering said signal. So no one can possibly be the arbiter of whats right and whats wrong and the point of view that phoo-phoos and patronises those that prefer something else cannot be supported. -- Rodney_Gold Sb3/Z-sys RDP1/meridian DSP5500's TP/X-cans v3/Senns 650's TP/TACT 2.0/SCM 50a's TP/Meridian DSP5000's The nicest thing about smacking your head against the wall is...the feeling you get when you stop Rodney_Gold's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14618 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48900 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Flac vs. CD
Rodney_Gold;312741 Wrote: I was using the car analogy to illustrate a point that numbers do not always prove that there is no difference , but as you say , if there is a difference then your preferences are inviolate. In audio , there is no universal truth, nothing is ever a straight wire with gain and thus whatever is on the media is always distorted or modified in some way before it reaches the listener. There would be no diversity in Audio equipment if that were the case , and even if you are talking digital , where the notion (wrongly) is that the signal is 1's and 0's (its an analog sine wave) , there is diversity in equipment delivering said signal. So no one can possibly be the arbiter of whats right and whats wrong and the point of view that phoo-phoos and patronises those that prefer something else cannot be supported. Rodney - I agree with pretty much everything here except that point about digital. From a given starting point (ie a digital file) - even though the bits are transmitted using an analogue representation of 1's and zeroes over spdif - it is possible to absolutely PROVE that the right bits arrived at the other end or not. Just record the recovered digital pattern and compare with the original. The problems with digital generally occur at the transitions from/to analogue audio. Phil -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48900 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Flac vs. CD
Rodney_Gold wrote: ... and even if you are talking digital , where the notion (wrongly) is that the signal is 1's and 0's (its an analog sine wave) ... Rodney, Assuming you are talking about SPDIF here, the digital information is actually transmitted using Biphase mark code. [1] R. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biphase_mark_code ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Flac vs. CD
Well it has to be something thats happening to the digital signal, tho at what stage and what affects the signal is beyond me. I'm a natural sceptic and not prone to snake oil stuff , butI have directly AB compared various sources etc into my system , which is actually easy to do , considering my speakers have 2 digital inputs and my Z-sys also has seamless switching between digital inputs and have heard differences , whether its the DAC in my speakers doing this or not, I have no idea , but considering its the same dac used , the only conclusion I can gather is that its somethingto do with the digital signal itself. Nowto take this one step further , the addition of a meridian 518 in Bypassmode, where it merely de - jitters (so they say) the signal , makes a difference and anyone with one can confirm this - the signal is still the same info , yet it has changed somehow (Im not talking any upsampling of wordlength or adding any dither here) My z-sys that can convert a 16 bit sample to a 24 bit one also sounds audibly different when you do so , yet the info that comesout in terms of 1's and 0's still has to be the same , the extra bits must be empty..?? Initially , 44/16 sound was touted as perfect sound forever , and as we all know , that was not true. PPl plainly do hear differences and one cannot ascribe these to merely a placebo effect as many are wont to do. -- Rodney_Gold Sb3/Z-sys RDP1/meridian DSP5500's TP/X-cans v3/Senns 650's TP/TACT 2.0/SCM 50a's TP/Meridian DSP5000's The nicest thing about smacking your head against the wall is...the feeling you get when you stop Rodney_Gold's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14618 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48900 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Flac vs. CD
Well, I got my info from http://www.epanorama.net/documents/audio/spdif.html and to quote the passage S/PDIF signals The signal on the digital output of a CD-player looks like almost perfect sine-wave, with an amplitude of 500 mVtt and a frequency of almost 3 MHz. -- Rodney_Gold Sb3/Z-sys RDP1/meridian DSP5500's TP/X-cans v3/Senns 650's TP/TACT 2.0/SCM 50a's TP/Meridian DSP5000's The nicest thing about smacking your head against the wall is...the feeling you get when you stop Rodney_Gold's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14618 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48900 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Flac vs. CD
Rodney_Gold;312787 Wrote: Well it has to be something thats happening to the digital signal, tho at what stage and what affects the signal is beyond me. I'm a natural sceptic and not prone to snake oil stuff , butI have directly AB compared various sources etc into my system , which is actually easy to do , considering my speakers have 2 digital inputs and my Z-sys also has seamless switching between digital inputs and have heard differences , whether its the DAC in my speakers doing this or not, I have no idea , but considering its the same dac used , the only conclusion I can gather is that its something to do with the digital signal itself. Now to take this one step further , the addition of a meridian 518 in Bypass mode, where it merely de - jitters (so they say) the signal , makes a difference and anyone with one can confirm this - the signal is still the same info , yet it has changed somehow (Im not talking any upsampling of wordlength or adding any dither here) My z-sys that can convert a 16 bit sample to a 24 bit one also sounds audibly different when you do so , yet the info that comes out in terms of 1's and 0's still has to be the same , the extra bits must be empty..?? Initially , 44/16 sound was touted as perfect sound forever , and as we all know , that was not true. Ppl plainly do hear differences and one cannot ascribe these to merely a placebo effect as many are wont to do. Rodney, Robin beat me to it in pointing out that the SPDIF signal is indeed a variable mark/space squar(ish) wave. A static sine wave can only convey frequency and amplitude!. I'm sure you are hearing differences as you pass the digital signal through various pieces of gear...but it's mostly not because the bits are changing. The output from an SB/TP is 24-bit anyway, regardless of the source. This is about timing/jitter/clock recovery at the point at which the digital signal is converted to analogue. As the clock is made easier/harder to recover (and there are many factors at play here) and jitter goes up/down there will be real differences in the analogue output (ie the sound). No question in my mind about that. Also the impact of various forms of electrical noise on the analogue circuits of the DAC will have an effect. So no IMHO it's not the digital signal per se that is the problem nowadays...it's how we turn it into something we can hear. Transports can affect the sound even though logic would seem to say they can't. I believe this is because of two factors: 1) different transports have different quality outputs (not digital quality - I mean the square wave is cleaner/noisier) that make it harder/easier for a DAC to process 2) transports can inject noise onto the digital signal path that gets into the analogue parts of the DAC As far as I can tell, the SB kit is pretty good in both respects to start with, although there is some debate about this. Certainly it seems possible to make the SPDIF squarer by tweaking the circuit slightly, as documented elsewhere. What difference it makes, I don't know. Everybody's MMV - this is just my personal view Regards Phil -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48900 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Flac vs. CD
Kjg, I just tried your suggestion and can clearly hear a difference , especially in the bass. didn't think it would affect things in the digital domain , but it doesBass inst as thin..Switched back to the old system to see if I was perhaps imagining it , but no , def an increase in low or mid bass. -- Rodney_Gold Sb3/Z-sys RDP1/meridian DSP5500's TP/X-cans v3/Senns 650's TP/TACT 2.0/SCM 50a's TP/Meridian DSP5000's The nicest thing about smacking your head against the wall is...the feeling you get when you stop Rodney_Gold's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14618 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48900 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Flac vs. CD
Rodney_Gold;312494 Wrote: Kjg, I just tried your suggestion and can clearly hear a difference , especially in the bass. didn't think it would affect things in the digital domain , but it doesBass inst as thin..Switched back to the old system to see if I was perhaps imagining it , but no , def an increase in low or mid bass. You can hear a difference via the digital out, now that is surprising. I can certainly hear a difference via the analogue outs of my TP, with a firm preference for flac native decoding. Haven't tried digital, as I prefer the TP's internal DAC to my external one. I'm still trying to work out what is going on. Obviously via the analogue outs there could be other mechanisms at work. AFAIK people have checked the accuracy of the native decoder, and so the only thing I can think of is that it affects the SPDIF out somehow, perhaps changing the amount of jitter. Of course I could be completely wrong there. -- bigfool1956 David Ayers Music is what counts, hifi just helps us enjoy it more bigfool1956's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13782 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48900 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Flac vs. CD
As far as I can make out , Im now doing the decoding on ther server rather than the TP, dunno why it makes a difference , perhaps cos im not doing DSP in the TP? Who knows..audio is sometimes unpredictable, I have compared 2 or more transports side by side to find differences between em...anyway it's a free and reversible tweak that seems to work for ME. -- Rodney_Gold Sb3/Z-sys RDP1/meridian DSP5500's TP/X-cans v3/Senns 650's TP/TACT 2.0/SCM 50a's TP/Meridian DSP5000's The nicest thing about smacking your head against the wall is...the feeling you get when you stop Rodney_Gold's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14618 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48900 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Flac vs. CD
Johan73 Rodney_Gold There's another thing you can try: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36503 Regards -- omega omega's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9336 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48900 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Flac vs. CD
oh no, not again. -- funkstar funkstar's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2335 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48900 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Flac vs. CD
funkstar;312545 Wrote: oh no, not again. oh yes :o) btw Omega, what did your friends at the lab conclude? -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48900 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Flac vs. CD
Yeah native decoding means more processing on-board...but it means less network traffic too. So if you're looking for rationalisations that works both ways. Until it's confirmed with a bit of blind testing *I'm* not going to lose a jot of sleep over it though. Oh yes...the B word again. :) Darren -- darrenyeats SB3 / Inguz - Krell KAV-300i (pre bypass) - PMC AB-1 Dell laptop - JVC UX-C30 mini system darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48900 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Flac vs. CD
omega;312528 Wrote: Johan73 Rodney_Gold There's another thing you can try: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36503 Regards Native vs server decoding - yes Display off vs display on - yes, but such a minute difference that even someone as anal as me doesn't worry. First song better than the rest - not in my system with a Transporter. -- bigfool1956 David Ayers Music is what counts, hifi just helps us enjoy it more bigfool1956's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13782 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48900 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Flac vs. CD
bigfool1956;312566 Wrote: Native vs server decoding - yes Display off vs display on - yes, but such a minute difference that even someone as anal as me doesn't worry. First song better than the rest - not in my system with a Transporter. David - are you saying that you can clearly hear (and prefer) native FLAC streaming and conversion over server-side conversion and streaming as WAV? Regards Phil -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48900 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Flac vs. CD
Rodney_Gold;312511 Wrote: As far as I can make out , Im now doing the decoding on ther server rather than the TP, dunno why it makes a difference , perhaps cos im not doing DSP in the TP? Who knows..audio is sometimes unpredictable, I have compared 2 or more transports side by side to find differences between em...anyway it's a free and reversible tweak that seems to work for ME in MY system. I don't subscribe to the fact that meaurements or numbers are the be all and end all of the determinants of whether something is better than another , for exampole the fact one car has the same power and torque and 1/4 mile or track times as another does not make it equal when driving them.If your comparing how fast they get in the quarter mile when driving then they are equal. If you are trying to get a handling feel or noise level from the quarter mile times, then no. A lot of people will pass on accurate sound when given the choice the choice of crisper highs and louder lows. The days of dolby nr on cassettes proved that to me. Tapes were encoded with it but nobody ever hit the button. It would lower the highs and lows back to the original levels and people didn't like that after hearing them louder. They didn't realize or care that they were listening to music with the mids way low and not accurate. I guess my point is that there is no right or wrong, just listen to what feels right to you. If you do start saying something is wrong then measurements, numbers and abx'ing will come into play. -- Nonreality -IF THE RULE YOU FOLLOWED BROUGHT YOU TO THIS, OF WHAT USE IS THE RULE.- HTTP://www.last.fm/user/nonreality Nonreality's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15723 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48900 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Flac vs. CD
Phil Leigh;312572 Wrote: David - are you saying that you can clearly hear (and prefer) native FLAC streaming and conversion over server-side conversion and streaming as WAV? Regards Phil Hi Phil, Yes, indeed I am, and my son agrees with me. Actually I was a bit surprised, because not only was I dubious there would be a difference, but also I thought that if there were a difference, then the nod would go to transcoding on the server (i.e. less for the TP to do). -- bigfool1956 David Ayers Music is what counts, hifi just helps us enjoy it more bigfool1956's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13782 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48900 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Flac vs. CD
bigfool1956;312584 Wrote: Hi Phil, Yes, indeed I am, and my son agrees with me. Actually I was a bit surprised, because not only was I dubious there would be a difference, but also I thought that if there were a difference, then the nod would go to transcoding on the server (i.e. less for the TP to do). Fascinating. I'll try it again. Last time I did this I noticed no difference - but I'm using the spdif o/p of an SB3... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48900 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Flac vs. CD
In my opinion, the differences between the SB and the Cambridge Audio transport simply come from the (poor) SB isolation. The CDT drive is very well isolated, while the SB is not : it needs explicit isolation. I experienced similar differences in the past and i was obliged to change the power supply and use a Belkin PureAV isolator. BTW, before isolating it, i also experienced (strange) differences between FLAC/WAV and even differences between various FLAC compression levels. -- Themis SB3 - Denon 3808 - Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus Themis's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48900 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Flac vs. CD
Themis;312594 Wrote: In my opinion, the differences between the SB and the Cambridge Audio transport simply come from the (poor) SB isolation. The CDT drive is very well isolated, while the SB is not : it needs explicit isolation. I experienced similar differences in the past and i was obliged to change the power supply and use a Belkin PureAV isolator. BTW, before isolating it, i also experienced (strange) differences between FLAC/WAV and even differences between various FLAC compression levels. Hmmm...possible. My system is very well isolated so maybe I won't see the differences that David refers to - but I'm pretty sure David is using some suitable mains conditioning... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48900 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Flac vs. CD
I wonder if Sean ever put the scope across the spdif whilst trying different streaming/transcoding combos... :o) -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48900 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Flac vs. CD
Phil Leigh;312599 Wrote: Hmmm...possible. My system is very well isolated so maybe I won't see the differences that David refers to - but I'm pretty sure David is using some suitable mains conditioning... I think the answer lies in my post(s) on the 'photos of your transporter setup' thread. :) -- bigfool1956 David Ayers Music is what counts, hifi just helps us enjoy it more bigfool1956's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13782 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48900 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Flac vs. CD
bigfool1956;312623 Wrote: I think the answer lies in my post(s) on the 'photos of your transporter setup' thread. :) ys - as I suspected :o) -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48900 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Flac vs. CD
And I still want to upgrade the Orbe / SME. Someone should put me in a padded room for my own good :) -- bigfool1956 David Ayers Music is what counts, hifi just helps us enjoy it more bigfool1956's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13782 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48900 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Flac vs. CD
Nonreality;312578 Wrote: A lot of people will pass on accurate sound when given the choice the choice of crisper highs and louder lows. The days of dolby nr on cassettes proved that to me. Tapes were encoded with it but nobody ever hit the button. It would lower the highs and lows back to the original levels and people didn't like that after hearing them louder. They didn't realize or care that they were listening to music with the mids way low and not accurate. This is why Dolby was often jokingly referred to as Dullby. :) -- Timothy Stockman Timothy Stockman's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8867 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48900 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Flac vs. CD
johan73;312121 Wrote: I've recently bought a Squeezebox Duet and have started ripping my cd collection. I use dBpoweramp Reference and rip to flac. For most cds I achieve an AccurateRip, so I suppose my rips are close to bit-perfect. I use an external DAC (Mission DAC5) between the SB and my amp. However, I still find that the sound from the SB is flatter, more dull, less crisp and has less punch than the cd original. I have compared audio quality from the SB with that from my cd transport (Cambridge CDT One) by in turn connecting the cd transport and the SB to the same external DAC using the same digital cable. I bought the SB in the belief that the digital output would be equally good if not better due to less jitter than that from a cd player, so Im a bit disappointed. Can anyone see obvious flaws in my set-up/approach? Johan make sure you have digital outout set to fixed, you are not using replaygain and the analog outputs is set to 63 (ie off). Make sure bit rate limiting is set to none. Stream FLAC as FLAC(ie use the native encoder) Are you using SPDIF or toslink? In my experience, an SB3 digital output will equal or outperform any CD player I've owned/used/borrowed (this includes some very expensive esoterica). Remember, this is all about clock-recovery /jitter (there is no other factor that can affect quality - the bits are correct) and how well your DAC handles them. The output jitter of the SB is very low. I'm starting to wonder if some people prefer higher jitter... ? -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48900 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Flac vs. CD
Are you using SPDIF or toslink? I use SPDIF (my DAC doesn't have toslink). make sure you have digital outout set to fixed, you are not using replaygain and the analog outputs is set to 63 (ie off). Make sure bit rate limiting is set to none. Stream FLAC as FLAC(ie use the native encoder) I have changed digital output to fixed Volume Adjustment/Replay Gain was set to No Volume Adjustment to begin with I have now set analog outputs (I guess you mean what is called Preamp Volume Control in SqueeceCenter) to 63 (why would this matter when I only use digital out?) Bit rate limiting was already set to No limits In Advanced File Types: File format Flac, Stream format FLAC was set to Native I think changing the digital output to fixed have improved sound, though I'm not entirely sure yet. (BTW, would a fixed output be equal to adjustable output where volume is set to max?) -- johan73 Audio set-up: Squeezebox Duet TaraLabs Prism D1 Digital Mission DAC5 Audio Note AN-C Holfi Integra Oehlbach XXL-6 Infinity Kappa 6.2i johan73's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=16968 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48900 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Flac vs. CD
You could use replay gain as long as you don't mistake volume for quality. Adjust accordingly when comparing. -- Nonreality -IF THE RULE YOU FOLLOWED BROUGHT YOU TO THIS, OF WHAT USE IS THE RULE.- HTTP://www.last.fm/user/nonreality Nonreality's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15723 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48900 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Flac vs. CD
Phil Leigh;312135 Wrote: Remember, this is all about clock-recovery /jitter (there is no other factor that can affect quality - the bits are correct) I beg to differ. There are THREE things I can think of which could affect the quality when feeding a digital signal to an external DAC: 1. The bits. We know that these are routinely 100% correct. 2. Timing jitter. Obviously a possible factor, but: (i) most modern DACs have pretty good reclocking; and (ii) studies have demonstrated that on music signals the effects of jitter are inaudible at levels vastly higher than the jitter from pretty much all modern digital sources. 3. Noise emanating from the digital source (either airborne as EMI or down the SPDIF cable) getting into the analogue circuitry of the DAC. My money is strongly on #3 as the most likely reason that digital sources might sound different when feeding the same DAC. We know for example that the Squeezebox has pretty low jitter, but its stock wall wart PSU sprays all sorts of nasty RFI around. -- cliveb Transporter - ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48900 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Flac vs. CD
3. Noise emanating from the digital source (either airborne as EMI or down the SPDIF cable) getting into the analogue circuitry of the DAC. Can electromagnetic interference (EMI) distort the signal from PC to SB Receiver? If yes, could this problem be avoided by using cabled connection to the SB instead of wireless? My money is strongly on #3 as the most likely reason that digital sources might sound different when feeding the same DAC. We know for example that the Squeezebox has pretty low jitter, but its stock wall wart PSU sprays all sorts of nasty RFI around. Do you recommend substituting the SB's original power supply? With what? -- johan73 Audio set-up: Squeezebox Duet TaraLabs Prism D1 Digital Mission DAC5 Audio Note AN-C Holfi Integra Oehlbach XXL-6 Infinity Kappa 6.2i johan73's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=16968 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48900 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Flac vs. CD
johan73;312121 Wrote: I bought the SB in the belief that the digital output would be equally good if not better due to less jitter than that from a cd player, so Im a bit disappointed. Can anyone see obvious flaws in my set-up/approach? Johan Digital is digital. If the source bits are the same, as they should be between a Red Book CD and a FLAC File, there should be no audible difference. This is assuming there is no huge error source or outrageous jitter offset that neither of these two units should have. So it could simply come down to setup. How close is all the equipment to the SB3s wall wart? The reason I ask is that I seemed to notice a difference in audio when making a similar comparison. After switching from S/PDIF cable to Toslink to see if it was possibly a cable issue (which after thinking about it didnt make sense because both units were using the same cable), I found that by isolating the SB3 from the DAC by optical cable that the two units could not be singled out anymore. I have never figured out what was the cause whether it was EMI, RFI, the tilt of the earth, but something was being carried from the SB3 on or over the coax that mudded the waters for the DAC. Mind you I dont think it had anything to do with the digital side but that it got carried to the analog section of the DAC by the coax cable. Something that was not being carried from the CDT, so my thoughts keep coming back to the wall wart power supply. -- iPhone *iPhone* 'Last.FM' (http://www.last.fm/user/mephone) Media Room: Transporter, VTL TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, Ayre MX-R Mono Blocks, Vandersteen Quatro, VeraStarr 6.4SE 6-channel Amp, VCC-5 Reference Center, four VSM-1 Signatures, Runco RS 900 CineWide AutoScope 2.35:1 Living Room: Duet, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold, Vandersteen Model 3A Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1 Bedroom: SB3, NAD C370, Thiel 2.3 Home Office: SB3, Parasound Vamp v.3, VSM-1 Sigs Mobile: SB3, Audioengine A5 iPhone's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13622 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48900 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Flac vs. CD
johan73;312206 Wrote: Can electromagnetic interference (EMI) distort the signal from PC to SB Receiver? If yes, could this problem be avoided by using cabled connection to the SB instead of wireless? I'm guessing here, but it's plausible that EMI from the network might affect the SBR's analogue circuitry. However, there's no reason to believe a wireless setup would generate more EMI of the type that might affect an SBR than a wired one. Remember than ethernet cables are typically unshielded, so I'd expect them to generate a fair amount of EMI, and it's anyone's guess at what level and over what RF spectrum. johan73;312206 Wrote: Do you recommend substituting the SB's original power supply? With what? Not necessarily. It all depends on whether the EMI that it generates actually affects the particular analogue gear you have. Some people swear that changing to a linear PSU makes a marked improvement, while others say it made no difference. I've speculated before that perhaps it's all down to how vulnerable the other gear is to EMI that is the root cause of this distinction. So if you were to go out and buy a better PSU (ie. one that generates less EMI), it might make little or no difference. -- cliveb Transporter - ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48900 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Flac vs. CD
You can try disabling the native FLAC streaming and let the server decode the file and stream WAV. If this changes things you'll fall into the I hear a difference where one shouldn't exist camp. There are a bunch of folks that belong to this :). 1. SqueezeCenter Settings - Advanced - File Types - FLAC/FLAC = disabled, FLAC/WAV = flac 2. Flip to another song and start playing. If you're using Windows, you should see a process labeled flac.exe in the Task Manager indicating the server decode is operating. - Ken (hearing differences where they shouldn't exist) johan73 wrote: I have changed digital output to fixed Volume Adjustment/Replay Gain was set to No Volume Adjustment to begin with I have now set analog outputs (I guess you mean what is called Preamp Volume Control in SqueeceCenter) to 63 (why would this matter when I only use digital out?) Bit rate limiting was already set to No limits In Advanced File Types: File format Flac, Stream format FLAC was set to Native I think changing the digital output to fixed have improved sound, though I'm not entirely sure yet. (BTW, would a fixed output be equal to adjustable output where volume is set to max?) ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Flac vs. CD
johan73;312206 Wrote: Can electromagnetic interference (EMI) distort the signal from PC to SB Receiver? If yes, could this problem be avoided by using cabled connection to the SB instead of wireless? Do you recommend substituting the SB's original power supply? With what? NO! - it's nothing to do with WI-FI... You might try a linear supply instead. But I can't guarantee this will fix your problem. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48900 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Flac vs. CD
Suggestion #1. Try listening blind. Suggestion #2. Avoid the endless debate (and it is endless) over S/PDIF and DACs by using the on-board DAC of the SB3 (it's not that bad...really!) or the TP. Suggestion #3. Buy a cheap linear regulated PS if it makes you feel better. In the UK they're available here http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/Batteries++Power+Supplies/AC+to+DC/UNBRANDED/AD-12100R/displayProduct.jsp?sku=PW00188 Darren -- darrenyeats SB3 / Inguz - Krell KAV-300i (pre bypass) - PMC AB-1 Dell laptop - JVC UX-C30 mini system darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48900 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC on a Mac with iTunes - CAN DO!
I tried this, and it works great with one issue that maybe someone can help me with. When I create an iTunes library with the TwistedFlac files, the songs load in just fine but they are not organized by artist or album. The flacs are all suitably tagged, and the wav shadow files include the artist/album/track/song/etc information when I use the get info function in iTunes. So I am puzzled.FWIW, I want to do this not to play the files in iTunes but merely to use iTunes as a tool to print an album/artist library without converting all my flacs to ALACs. Indeed there are other ways to print a library, but I really like the iTunes library print function. Any hints? -- captain cripes captain cripes's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17975 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47878 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC on a Mac with iTunes - CAN DO!
Purely by accident I found that songs on the virtual disk and synced on iTunes can be played on my iPod. I wasn't expecting this to occur. Either: iTunes copies the music as a WAV to the iPod, Or iPods have the ability to play FLAC. Either way, now I can have my FLACs and listen to them to! -- kphinney SB3 (x2) and Transporter Rotel RCD-1070 CIAudio DVA-2 w/ VAC-1 PS JoLida 102B Omega Grand 6's AKG K501 kphinney's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47878 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC on a Mac with iTunes - CAN DO!
He he he... I'm really pleased now. Yup, I love my SlimDevices and the awesome quality they produce. But sometimes I'm bound to my laptop and headphones. Using the same setup as described in my first post, but now pointing TwistedFLAC to the shared folder containing my FLACs on my primary Mac, I can listed to all of my FLACs on my laptop (as WAVs in iTunes). All without taking any real drive space from my laptops tiny hard drive. I also discovered that if you create a folder in iTunes by dragging the TwistedFLAC virtual image to the side bar you can reconnect to it WITHOUT adding the files a second time. Be aware - you need to change iTunes setting to Not Copy and Not Keep Organized. Now when you dismount the virtual folder you can remount it later and all of your FLAC (now WAVs) will be retained in the iTunes folder. Pretty damn cool. Sorry - from what I've tried you cannot use iTunes to modify the files. -- kphinney SB3 (x2) and Transporter Rotel RCD-1070 CIAudio DVA-2 w/ VAC-1 PS JoLida 102B Omega Grand 6's AKG K501 kphinney's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47878 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC on a Mac with iTunes - CAN DO!
Okay - I guess an easier way would have been to keep TwistedFLAC mounted (on the server PowerMac) and then just use iTunes (laptop) to discover and share the files. Works both ways. I'm getting beyond the point of my original post. The purpose was to point our that you can have FLACs for use with the SB and play on iTunes them without converting them. Sorry for the digression. -- kphinney SB3 (x2) and Transporter Rotel RCD-1070 CIAudio DVA-2 w/ VAC-1 PS JoLida 102B Omega Grand 6's AKG K501 kphinney's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47878 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC on a Mac with iTunes - CAN DO!
yooper;304351 Wrote: kphinney, Thanks a lot for the topic and explanation of getting everything to work. I too use flac, and would be interested to try this. I do have a question.. once iTunes picks up the flac files can you use iTunes to add album art to the flac files? My current flac library (also around 500 GB) does have all the album art, but most of it is Amazon quality (240 x 240) and it would be nice to add iTunes hi-rez album art. My other question, would Slim recognize this work around if I decided to let iTunes manage the music within Slim? Thanks again, Mark All very good questions Mark. I'll check it out later this evening but I have to think the adding artwork via iTunes will Not work. Since the programs create a virtual disk I have a feeling it's a one-way path. At best, your new artwork will stay only as long as the virtual disk remains open. Closing it (or the programs) and reopening will mirror your FLACs again, without and modifications. All of my artwork is retained from FLAC - iTunes. I don't trust the setup enough to let iTunes manage it yet, even if it is possible due to the same reason mentioned above. Give me a run down if you give it a chance. -- kphinney SB3 (x2) and Transporter Rotel RCD-1070 CIAudio DVA-2 w/ VAC-1 PS JoLida 102B Omega Grand 6's AKG K501 kphinney's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47878 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC on a Mac with iTunes - CAN DO!
kphinney, Thanks a lot for the topic and explanation of getting everything to work. I too use flac, and would be interested to try this. I do have a question.. once iTunes picks up the flac files can you use iTunes to add album art to the flac files? My current flac library (also around 500 GB) does have all the album art, but most of it is Amazon quality (240 x 240) and it would be nice to add iTunes hi-rez album art. My other question, would Slim recognize this work around if I decided to let iTunes manage the music within Slim? Thanks again, Mark -- yooper yooper's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8835 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47878 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC on a Mac with iTunes - CAN DO!
GuyDebord;303762 Wrote: JUST USE MAX, IT WILL CONVERT ALL YOUR FLACS IN ONE GO, CANNOT BE EASIER.. 1) I don't want to convert my files. FLAC is what I use and will continue to use, even if I have to eschew iTunes like I have for years. 2) Max will convert all of your FLACs in one go - no question there, but it DOES NOT retain all tag information. The last time I tried Max I found myself retyping and hunting cover art for many, many, hours. I guess my original post may have been misconstrued. I do not want to convert from FLAC. All I wanted was to see my FLACs in iTunes and not use any additional drive space. bBesides, there are dozens of post here on converting between file formats and enough FLAC to ALAC to WAV, etc threads to choke the life out of even the most insomniac reader. If you want to talk FLAC conversion, please re-open another post. This was new news for the forum./b -- kphinney SB3 Rotel RCD-1070 CIAudio DVA-2 w/ VAC-1 PS JoLida 102B Omega Grand 6's PowerMac Zhaolu D2.5 with headphone amp mod. AKG K501 kphinney's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47878 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC on a Mac with iTunes - CAN DO!
Nikhil;303643 Wrote: well .. I just tried TwistedFLAC on my G4 PPC mini and all I get is a spinning beach-ball ... had to restart twice :( . I know the MacFUSE part is fine, because NTFS-3G works perfectly. I will wait until someone gets this running on the platform. Firefly will suffice until then. Nikhil, What OS version are you on? I had it running on my old G3 iBook, on v10.4.2. I did make sure to install the 10.4 version of MacFUSE. -- kphinney SB3 Rotel RCD-1070 CIAudio DVA-2 w/ VAC-1 PS JoLida 102B Omega Grand 6's PowerMac Zhaolu D2.5 with headphone amp mod. AKG K501 kphinney's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47878 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC on a Mac with iTunes - CAN DO!
kphinney;303996 Wrote: 2) Max will convert all of your FLACs in one go - no question there, but it DOES NOT retain all tag information. The last time I tried Max I found myself retyping and hunting cover art for many, many, hours. If youre tags were correctly done you wouldnt have any problems, I guess that keeping FLAC also helps avoid some organization... Good luck with your virtual drive. -- GuyDebord Verity Audio Tamino X2 wired with v/d Hul Inspiration, REL Strata5. AMPS: Pathos Classic One MKIII's in mono config. ANALOGUE: Clearaudio Ambient CMB, Satisfy Carbon Lyra Helikon SL, ASR Basis Exclusive phono preamp, link: AcousticZen Silver Reference2 XLRs. DIGITAL: SlimDevices Transporter, link: WireWorld SilverEclipse 5.2. POWER: Isotek MiniSub GII, Isotek Elite cables (MiniSub, Rel), Siltech SPX30 MKII (ASR), v/d Hul Mainstream (Pathos) v/d Hul Mainserver (Transporter). GuyDebord's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14587 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47878 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC on a Mac with iTunes - CAN DO!
GuyDebord;304021 Wrote: If youre tags were correctly done you wouldnt have any problems, I guess that keeping FLAC also helps avoid some organization... Good luck with your virtual drive. Thanks. I'm not adverse to keeping things organized, but I prefer to do without it if I can. I do wish I had the time to fix all of my tags, but we're talking about 500GB of music with encoding dates ranging from 2003 to last week, encoding platforms include Windows, Mac, RedHat ( Fedora), and GNU LAMP. I'm constantly amazed that the tags still provide my player and SlimServer with a semblance of working goodness. I need a miracle every day. -- kphinney SB3 (x2) and Transporter Rotel RCD-1070 CIAudio DVA-2 w/ VAC-1 PS JoLida 102B Omega Grand 6's AKG K501 kphinney's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47878 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC on a Mac with iTunes - CAN DO!
Nikhil Wrote: 1) mp3fs: Works similarly to the way your method does i.e. creates a virtual filesystem based on MacFUSE. But instead of WAVs, the files are converted to mp3s at a bit rate that you decide. It is useful if you want to sync parts of your flac collection with a portable audio player. The mac patch for mp3fs can be found here http://www.uwe-arzt.de/patchmp3fs . The original mp3fs page is http://mp3fs.sourceforge.net/ , and of course MacFUSE is a google project http://code.google.com/p/macfuse/ . As a side note, MacFUSE also serves as the base for NTFS-3G which lets you finally Read Write windows partitions on a mac http://www.ntfs-3g.org/index.html Yep, mp3fs is great, I have it installed on my Debian Server, and it works wonders for when I want to convert to mp3 quickly. -- pichonCalavera *rip* (eac) *convert* (flac) *tag* (musicbrainz/mp3tag) *normalize* (replaygain/foobar2000) *albumart* (www) *transport* (winscp) *store* (debian) *rescan* (squeezecenter) *play* (squeezebox) *mix* (musicip) *listen* (sennheiser) *scrooble* (last.fm) *enjoy* (me :) pichonCalavera's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13068 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47878 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FLAC on a Mac with iTunes - CAN DO!
kphinney;303541 Wrote: It's been a while since I lasted posted or even had time to read this, my favorite Community Forum. But I found something that may be of interest to the Mac users out there. If you're like me you've been waiting for Apple to include FLAC capabilites in iTunes ( QuickTime). Apple has eschewed FLAC for it's propriatory ALAC and 10.4 didn't add FLAC, nor did 10.5. I just discovered TwistedFLAC. TwistedFLAC and it's subordinate helper program, MacFUSE, allow FLAC files to be read as WAV files. When you install MacFUSE, MacFUSE implements a mechanism that makes it possible to implement a fully functional file system in a user-space program on Mac OS X (10.4 and above). yadda yadda... it allows you to create a virtual disk. When I say you in this instance I mean Twisted. Twisted uses this virtual disk as a virtual repository for alias files - your FLACs now as WAVs - without taking any real disk space. I just started working with setting this up and I wanted to offer up the idea as well as get your Mac insight. Here's what I did: 1) install both programs 2) point TwistedFLAC to my FLAC folder (the highest level folder, not each subfolder). 3) Pointed iTunes to the virtual disk image Twised made on my desktop and turned off Keep iTune Music folder organized and Copy files to iTunes Music folder when adding to library. 4) Dragged the disk image to iTunes. 20 minutes later iTunes had added all of my FLACs to itself without taking any more disk space. AND it plays all of my music as if they are WAV files. Have You Cake and Eat it to! The only problem I am having, and I'm sure it is because of step 3 somehow, is that I have duplicates of nearly every song in iTunes. But again, it didn't actually copy anything so no hard drive space was used. I like it. It was easy, free, and I didn't have to convert or duplicate any files. Now, why couldn't Apple have done that for us? (By the way, I posted this here because I'm sure 99% of the audiophile crowd is using FLAC or ALAC. If I should move and repost elsewhere, please let me know. Thanks.) But why got thru all of this if you can easily convert flacs to alacs and viceversa? I assume that if you are using mac server you will never need flacs, not even if you want to take them to go... Is there some esoteric belief behind this post? -- GuyDebord Verity Audio Tamino X2 wired with v/d Hul Inspiration, REL Strata5. AMPS: Pathos Classic One MKIII's in mono config. ANALOGUE: Clearaudio Ambient CMB, Satisfy Carbon Lyra Helikon SL, ASR Basis Exclusive phono preamp, link: AcousticZen Silver Reference2 XLRs. DIGITAL: SlimDevices Transporter, link: WireWorld SilverEclipse 5.2. POWER: Isotek MiniSub GII, Isotek Elite cables (MiniSub, Rel), Siltech SPX30 MKII (ASR), v/d Hul Mainstream (Pathos) v/d Hul Mainserver (Transporter). GuyDebord's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14587 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47878 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
