Re: [Boston.pm] OT: Favorite Mac OS X utilities

[Steve Revilak]

> Outlook Express is for the Mac OS only, although of course it will 
> work in Classic. Entourage is the Mac OS X version of an Exchange 
> client, and has reportedly recently been debundled from Office; it 
> costs $99 or so, I believe.
> 
> As far as I know, Microsoft no longer supply a free mail client for 
> the Macintosh, relinquishing this field to Apple.

Just out of curiosity ... is anyone using Pine on OSX?

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Re: [Boston.pm] OT: Favorite Mac OS X utilities

[Paul Mison]

On 03/01/2003 at 16:39 -0500, David H. Adler wrote:

On Fri, Jan 03, 2003 at 03:51:14PM -0500, Drew Taylor wrote:

 I just ran across an Eudora importer for Mail.app on version tracker
 yesterday.
 "Eudora Mailbox Cleaner - 1-step migration from Eudora to Mail.app"
 http://www.versiontracker.com/moreinfo.fcgi?id=13341=mac


I'm actually not being overly thrilled with Mail.app, and am thinking of
going the other way, but I don't see anything that goes in that
direction, conversion-wise. :-/


As long as you can find the mboxes, and convert them to have 
Macintosh line breaks, then Eudora should be able to import them 
without trouble.

I tested this by taking ~/Library/Mail/Mailboxes/Sent 
Messages.mbox/mbox, saving it as a text file with Macintosh line 
breaks, and loading it with the Mailbox>Other command in Eudora 5.2, 
and it worked fine, albeit losing the read flags. If this is 
important to you, you'd have to do some coding, I expect, possibly by 
parsing the table_of_contents in the mbox folder.

(Eudora has the benefit that I expect I'm alone in finding useful of 
working in Mac OS as well as Mac OS X.)

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Re: [Boston.pm] OT: Favorite Mac OS X utilities

[Paul Mison]

On 03/01/2003 at 22:58 -0500, Peter R. Wood wrote:


The general sequence of events was: Apple releases original Sherlock;


Actually, the original Sherlock was version 1 for Mac OS 8.5, which 
was a slightly beefed up (and genuinely usable) version of the old 
Find File app. Then OS 9 (*) introduced Sherlock 2, which was utterly 
useless as far as I was concerned, as it put things that never should 
have been there in the application, and made its primary purpose 
(finding local files) a pain to use.

Thankfully, in OS 9 you could use Sherlock 1 as a front end to the 
newer Find By Content libraries. Sadly, in OS X Sherlock 2 was the 
only game in town, which is another of the many reasons I never got 
on with OS X before Jaguar. Sensibly 10.2 seperates back out the 
local file searching, so I never have to touch either Sherlock or 
Watson; both so US-centric to be irrelevant to the other 95% of the 
world's population.

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Re: [Boston.pm] OT: Favorite Mac OS X utilities

[Dan Sugalski]

At 9:03 PM -0500 1/3/03, Chris Devers wrote:

On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, Dan Sugalski wrote:


 One of the nice things about keeping your mail on the server and going
 with IMAP--at least changing clients is reasonably simple, though
 there's still that pesky address book & filter issue.


Hence the joy of [b] procmail & friends (which keeps your filters working
on any client & on any computer) and [a] the local LDAP based address book
database (which keeps your contact data organized for any mail client on
your computer ...as long as it's Mail.app...).


Ah, that's why you have client filters working on IMAP mailboxes. 
(Though it does have some bandwidth issues when working any distance 
off a good-speed network link) Dunno if Mail.app does it, but 
Eudora's certainly happy to, which is nice. A pain, as it slows 
things down, but at least it means you note what mailboxes have new 
mail in them. One thing Eudora *doesn't* do is check boxes on the 
server and open windows when there's new mail even if it didn't put 
it there, but nothing's perfect. :)

--
Dan

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Re: [Boston.pm] OT: Favorite Mac OS X utilities

[Chris Nandor]

At 22:58 -0500 2003.01.03, Peter R. Wood wrote:
>The general sequence of events was: Apple releases original Sherlock;
>Karelia releases Watson to 'complement' Sherlock; Apple awards Karelia
>'Most Innovative Mac OS X Product of 2002'; Apple releases Sherlock 3
>(which is a dead ringer for Watson) as part of Jaguar.

I am a big fan of Watson, but I think Karelia overblows all this.  If you
look at Watson, there is very little, if anything, innovative or new or
original about it, either in functionality or interface or concept.  The
idea of web services certainly didn't originate there, nor did scraping web
pages or plopping another UI on top of web searches, nor did pulling
together multiple services into a single app, etc.  And as far as the UI:
Sherlock looks just like most other Mac OS X apps; if anything, Watson
"stole" it from Apple.

I love Watson and use it all the time, but I can't see what Apple did wrong
... except for not making Sherlock a very good product (it is slow and not
very useful).  Next thing you know, people are going to attack other web
browsers for putting a toolbar above the page!


>Watson has advantages in performance and expandability, but does carry a
>licensing fee in order to obtain full functionality.

IIRC, you lose *all* functionality if you don't pay the fee (I bought the
home site license, so I could install it on all my computers).

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Re: [Boston.pm] OT: Favorite Mac OS X utilities

[Peter R. Wood]

> * Sherlock / Watson
>   OSX 10.0 came out with its version of Sherlock (3.0?), and it was...
> meh. Then Watson came out, and trounced it in every way -- this is very
> neat software for getting information of all sorts from the internet.
> Then Jaguar brought Sherlock 3.5, and -- supposedly by coincidence --
> it's much like Watson, but free (with the system). I'm told that Watson
> is easier to extend than Sherlock, and some people seem to be annoyed at
> Apple for how much the current version of Sherlock appears to be a
> Watson clone, but in any case they're both pretty good & worth playing
> with.

The general sequence of events was: Apple releases original Sherlock;
Karelia releases Watson to 'complement' Sherlock; Apple awards Karelia
'Most Innovative Mac OS X Product of 2002'; Apple releases Sherlock 3
(which is a dead ringer for Watson) as part of Jaguar.

For more information on the interesting coincidences between Watson and
Sherlock, and information on both, check Karelia software's FAQ.

http://www.karelia.com/watson/watsonFAQ.html

Watson has advantages in performance and expandability, but does carry a
licensing fee in order to obtain full functionality.

Peter


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Re: [Boston.pm] OT: Favorite Mac OS X utilities

[Chris Devers]

On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, Dan Sugalski wrote:

> One of the nice things about keeping your mail on the server and going
> with IMAP--at least changing clients is reasonably simple, though
> there's still that pesky address book & filter issue.

Hence the joy of [b] procmail & friends (which keeps your filters working
on any client & on any computer) and [a] the local LDAP based address book
database (which keeps your contact data organized for any mail client on
your computer ...as long as it's Mail.app...).

Being able to move [a] there up to the servers (along with some other
things), as they do with .Mac, would be a very nice development. Most of
what .Mac does seems to be clever extensions of existing protocols, e.g.
webdav, xml-rpc, the ical & vcal data formats, etc. People already seem to
be reverse-engineering what .Mac does --

http://www.drijf.net/dototto/
http://www.confusticate.com/tech/isync/
http://www.confusticate.com/tech/isync/logs1/transaction8.html

-- and sooner or later, provided that Apple doesn't decide to take legal
action (seems like this is all kosher & not against their eulas, but it's
not like they've never sued someone for spurious reasons before...) I'm
hoping we'll see workalikes for this stuff before too long. Being able to
complement your mail setup with some kind of open source Apache / webdav /
ldap network storage of contact & calendar data would be cool...

Anyway, just to wrap up my contribute to the OSX stuff thread, I can't
believe I forgot Mark Liyanage's site: www.entropy.ch. Before I found out
about Fink, I was using his very good packages for different Unix apps
(Pine, Vim, MySQL & PostgreSQL, etc.). It's not as necessary to use his
versions for these things now, but the site is still pretty good. As an
intro, check out his recommended software & configuration page:

http://www.entropy.ch/software/macosx/docs/customization/

Good stuff - same things this thread has nominally been about...


-- 
Chris Devers[EMAIL PROTECTED]

adjective, n.
(esp. DP usage) any noun.

-- from _The Computer Contradictionary_, Stan Kelly-Bootle, 1995
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Re: [Boston.pm] OT: Favorite Mac OS X utilities

[Dan Sugalski]

At 4:39 PM -0500 1/3/03, David H. Adler wrote:

On Fri, Jan 03, 2003 at 03:51:14PM -0500, Drew Taylor wrote:

 I just ran across an Eudora importer for Mail.app on version tracker
 yesterday.
 "Eudora Mailbox Cleaner - 1-step migration from Eudora to Mail.app"
 http://www.versiontracker.com/moreinfo.fcgi?id=13341=mac


I'm actually not being overly thrilled with Mail.app, and am thinking of
going the other way, but I don't see anything that goes in that
direction, conversion-wise. :-/


One of the nice things about keeping your mail on the server and 
going with IMAP--at least changing clients is reasonably simple, 
though there's still that pesky address book & filter issue.
--
Dan

--"it's like this"---
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Re: [Boston.pm] OT: Favorite Mac OS X utilities

[Mikey Smelto]

I don't know anything about EveryBuddy, but for a cross-service IM client,
Fire.app is okay -- and it's GPL too! It's just not as cute as iChat
though... :) Also, if you've got Fink/OroborOSX, Gaim is an option -- I
seem to recall that can do multiple protocols now...


I guess I could include more than just a URL.  Everybuddy is also GPL'd, 
supports AIM, ICQ, MSN, Yahoo, Jabber, IRC, has some graphical smileys, and 
supports limited file-transferring (see the features page for full 
explanation of "limited").

www.everybuddy.com

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Re: [Boston.pm] OT: Favorite Mac OS X utilities

[Mikey Smelto]

I don't know anything about EveryBuddy, but for a cross-service IM client,
Fire.app is okay -- and it's GPL too! It's just not as cute as iChat
though... :) Also, if you've got Fink/OroborOSX, Gaim is an option -- I
seem to recall that can do multiple protocols now...



http://www.everybuddy.com/en/download.php

And it does run on OSX according to this page.

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Re: [Boston.pm] OT: Favorite Mac OS X utilities

[Chris Devers]

On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, Mikey Smelto wrote:

> Does EveryBuddy run on OSX?  I haven't had to run a chat client on linux
> for a while, but when I did (about a year and a half ago) EveryBuddy
> handled AOL, Yahoo, MSN, and ICQ messaging decently.

I don't know anything about EveryBuddy, but for a cross-service IM client,
Fire.app is okay -- and it's GPL too! It's just not as cute as iChat
though... :) Also, if you've got Fink/OroborOSX, Gaim is an option -- I
seem to recall that can do multiple protocols now...


-- 
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undetected, adj.
Of which the least said the better.

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Re: [Boston.pm] OT: Favorite Mac OS X utilities

[Mikey Smelto]

* iChat
  The cartoon metaphor for IM discussion works surprisingly well, and the
integration with the system address book is useful. On the other hand, it
seems to crash a lot, and it would be nice if it could integrate with
other IM services. (On the gripping hand, it would be better still if all
these &^#^&! IM servers were interoperable in the first place...).



Does EveryBuddy run on OSX?  I haven't had to run a chat client on linux for 
a while, but when I did (about a year and a half ago) EveryBuddy handled 
AOL, Yahoo, MSN, and ICQ messaging decently.

Mike

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Re: [Boston.pm] OT: Favorite Mac OS X utilities

[Chris Nandor]

At 15:15 -0600 2003.01.03, Elaine -HFB- Ashton wrote:
>Adam Turoff [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] quoth:
>*>
>*>Really?  I flipped through it in the bookstore and didn't find much
>*>of value to a long-time UNIX user.  Specifically, I wanted to see much
>*>more discussion about netinfo and other darwin/osx-isms that you don't
>*>find on other *NIXes.  The coverage of netinfo was pretty much limited
>*>to "there's a utility called nidump, and another called niutil", but no
>*>coverage on how to add a new group, etc.
>
>It was originally titled "Mac OS for Unix Developers" but Jarkko and I
>both gave it a scathing review since it was nothing more than a bunch of
>lists of commands and such for 95% of the book with a brief section on
>packaging which was decent. However, none of the content, at least in the
>first round of tech reviews, was worth the cover price vs. getting the
>free ADC documentation on-line from Apple. From your description, I doubt
>much has changed since they pushed back the production date, changed the
>title and didn't include us in the second round of tech reviews.

The only thing I tried to find out from that book was how to use some of
the command line tools in /Developer/Tools/.  And it gave nothing more than
a brief description, with no explanation, for each.

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Re: [Boston.pm] OT: Favorite Mac OS X utilities

[Drew Taylor]

Thanks to everyone who has responded so far. Here's a summary of the 
replies. I think I have lots to look forward to now. :-)

User Groups
---
Boston Mac Users' Group http://www.bmac.org Next meeting on Wed Jan 8, 2002 
at MIT campus
MacWoburn user group http://www.macwoburn.org Meets at CompUSA in Woburn
"All Things Macintosh" DSLReports forum http://www.dslreports.com/forum/macdsl

Books/Docs
--
OS X Unleashed
Mac OS X for Unix Geeks
Learning Cocoa w/Obj-C
Apple Developer Connection http://developer.apple.com
   http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/macosx/macosx.html
/Developer/Documentation/ - Locally installer Developer docs

Software

BBEdit - Mac OS flagship editor
Fink - Ports of Unix apps to OS X
OroborOSX window manager http://oroborosx.sf.net
Drop Drawers X - a program launcher/dock replacement
Windowshade X
uControl - remap annoying keys, get CTRL in the right place etc
Codetek Virtual Desktop
Weatherpop

MUA
---
Mail - Import much improved in 10.2.x
Eudora - An oldie but goodie
Mutt - For those diehard fans ;-)

Hardware

Other World Computing http://www.macsales.com/
Small Dog Electronics http://www.smalldog.com/

News

http://versiontracker.com/macosx/  - tracks new Mac software releases
http://www.macintouch.com/ - Mac news and commentary
http://www.lowendmac.com/ - for folks like you who have older Macs
http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/ - Mac hardware reviews and news
http://apple.slashdot.org/ - Apple section of ./
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Re: [Boston.pm] OT: Favorite Mac OS X utilities

[David H. Adler]

On Fri, Jan 03, 2003 at 03:51:14PM -0500, Drew Taylor wrote:
> I just ran across an Eudora importer for Mail.app on version tracker 
> yesterday.
> "Eudora Mailbox Cleaner - 1-step migration from Eudora to Mail.app"
> http://www.versiontracker.com/moreinfo.fcgi?id=13341=mac

I'm actually not being overly thrilled with Mail.app, and am thinking of
going the other way, but I don't see anything that goes in that
direction, conversion-wise. :-/

dha
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Re: [Boston.pm] OT: Favorite Mac OS X utilities

[Peter R. Wood]

>
> Really?  I flipped through it in the bookstore and didn't find much of
> value to a long-time UNIX user.  Specifically, I wanted to see much more
> discussion about netinfo and other darwin/osx-isms that you don't find
> on other *NIXes.  The coverage of netinfo was pretty much limited to
> "there's a utility called nidump, and another called niutil", but no
> coverage on how to add a new group, etc.

Sorry, I guess I underestimated the needs of the book's target audience.
For me, at least, it provides more than enough information. I'm sure more
advanced developer types would appreciate the documentation that Elaine
pointed to @ Apple. Perhaps the shortcomings of this book will compel
another author to write a more in-depth guide.

Let me rewrite my original recommendation, then, as follows:

"If you are a casual user of Mac OS X who would like to leverage some
existing knowledge of UNIX, and get a taste of Apple's implementation of
such, you may want to skim a copy of Mac OS X For UNIX Geeks at your local
bookstore. Hopefully this will whet your appetite to do more exploration
on your own."

My apologies if I misled anyone as to the usefulness or appropriateness of
the above mentioned title.

Peter

-- 
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Re: [Boston.pm] OT: Favorite Mac OS X utilities

[Elaine -HFB- Ashton]

Adam Turoff [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] quoth:
*>
*>Really?  I flipped through it in the bookstore and didn't find much
*>of value to a long-time UNIX user.  Specifically, I wanted to see much
*>more discussion about netinfo and other darwin/osx-isms that you don't
*>find on other *NIXes.  The coverage of netinfo was pretty much limited
*>to "there's a utility called nidump, and another called niutil", but no
*>coverage on how to add a new group, etc.

It was originally titled "Mac OS for Unix Developers" but Jarkko and I
both gave it a scathing review since it was nothing more than a bunch of
lists of commands and such for 95% of the book with a brief section on
packaging which was decent. However, none of the content, at least in the
first round of tech reviews, was worth the cover price vs. getting the
free ADC documentation on-line from Apple. From your description, I doubt
much has changed since they pushed back the production date, changed the
title and didn't include us in the second round of tech reviews. 

It might be handy for someone who hasn't ever touched Unix before but you
can get better docs on-line for free at
http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/macosx/macosx.html

e.
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Re: [Boston.pm] OT: Favorite Mac OS X utilities

[Drew Taylor]

At 03:54 PM 1/3/03 -0500, Ron Newman wrote:


On Friday, January 3, 2003, at 03:51  PM, Drew Taylor wrote:


I just ran across an Eudora importer for Mail.app on version tracker 
yesterday.
"Eudora Mailbox Cleaner - 1-step migration from Eudora to Mail.app"
http://www.versiontracker.com/moreinfo.fcgi?id=13341=mac

It's not perfect, but it's got to be better than the stock importer for 
Mail. It was slow and did a less than perfect job of importing all my 
mailboxes (some had only 1 mail, which never displayed in the folder).

The original Jaguar Mail.app importer was pretty buggy.  They fixed
most if not all of the problems in a subsequent Jaguar update
(either 10.2.1 or 10.2.2, I don't recall which now)


Ahhh, I had done the import with a stock 10.2 install. I just got 10.2.3 
installed a couple days ago and have not tried the email import since then. 
I'll check it out this weekend and see how it goes.

Drew
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Re: [Boston.pm] OT: Favorite Mac OS X utilities

[Ron Newman]

On Friday, January 3, 2003, at 03:51  PM, Drew Taylor wrote:


I just ran across an Eudora importer for Mail.app on version tracker 
yesterday.
"Eudora Mailbox Cleaner - 1-step migration from Eudora to Mail.app"
http://www.versiontracker.com/moreinfo.fcgi?id=13341=mac

It's not perfect, but it's got to be better than the stock importer 
for Mail. It was slow and did a less than perfect job of importing all 
my mailboxes (some had only 1 mail, which never displayed in the 
folder).

The original Jaguar Mail.app importer was pretty buggy.  They fixed
most if not all of the problems in a subsequent Jaguar update
(either 10.2.1 or 10.2.2, I don't recall which now)

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Re: [Boston.pm] OT: Favorite Mac OS X utilities

[Dan Sugalski]

At 12:41 PM -0500 1/3/03, Chris Devers wrote:

On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Dan Sugalski wrote:


 At 2:18 PM -0500 1/2/03, darren chamberlain wrote:
 Dead-simple. Copy your Windows mail folder over and tell Mac eudora
 about it and you're set. (Done it both ways, works very nicely)


More broadly, Eudora uses mbox format, doesn't it?


Yep, at least it can. Makes moving things back and forth nice. 
(Though I admit that at this point I keep everything on the server 
and fetch it via IMAP, so it's available to me even when my laptop's 
not handy)

It does do SSL POP/IMAP/SMTP if your server supports it as well, 
which is nice if you're doing mail over a public WAP. Things are at 
least mildly encrypted, so you don't have the whole world sniffing 
your password, and it's less of a pain than setting up a local SSL 
tunnel.
--
Dan

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Re: [Boston.pm] OT: Favorite Mac OS X utilities

[Chris Nandor]

At 12:07 -0500 2003.01.03, Peter R. Wood wrote:
>Keep up on the latest Mac software, news, etc:
>
>http://versiontracker.com/macosx/  - tracks new Mac software releases
>http://www.macintouch.com/ - Mac news and commentary
>http://www.lowendmac.com/ - for folks like you who have older Macs
>http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/ - Mac hardware reviews and news, very good if
>you're considering any type of upgrade for your Mac, be it CPU, Video,
>memory, hard disk...

Ob Plug: http://apple.slashdot.org/ !

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Re: [Boston.pm] OT: Favorite Mac OS X utilities

[Chris Devers]

On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Dan Sugalski wrote:

> At 2:18 PM -0500 1/2/03, darren chamberlain wrote:
> Dead-simple. Copy your Windows mail folder over and tell Mac eudora
> about it and you're set. (Done it both ways, works very nicely)

More broadly, Eudora uses mbox format, doesn't it? Mail.app does too, sort
of, but it buries your actual mbox mail file/folders in an elaborate
directory of Foo.imapmbox/gibberish/nonsense/comeonnow/cutitout silliness.
Now that I poke around, this seems to have become even more baroque under
the Jaguar version of Mail.app. This still isn't as locked up as Outlook's
mail storage safe deposit box, but converting regular Eudora/*nix mbox
mail files might not be as straightforward now as it was a few months ago.

> D'oh! I'd forgotten I'd said that. (Wow, my first sigquoting! I feel
> so special now... :)

heh

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D'oh! I'd forgotten I'd said that.
(Wow, my third sigquoting!
   I feel so special now... :)
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Re: [Boston.pm] OT: Favorite Mac OS X utilities

[Chris Devers]

On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, darren chamberlain wrote:

> * Andrew M. Langmead  [2003-01-03 11:47]:
> > The unicode support is nice. Your foreign spam comes in its proper
> > script, rather than funny escape characters that mess up for text
> > display (like frequently happens with mutt)
>^
>
> ...only if it isn't setup correctly.

Yes, when properly configured, it is sent directly to /dev/null. It does
not pass Go and it does not collect FOUR HUNDRED AND NINETEEN MILLION
UNITED STATES DOLLARS from a hidden cache in Lagos.   :)

But in any case, the point is moot -- everyone should use Pine. Mutt usage
is acceptable but will be treated with deep, deep suspicion. ;)

I spent my first six months or so of OSX time using Mail.app, and as GUI
mailers go I like it as much as any other one I've used -- as Andrew and
others have noted, the integration with the system is really slick, and it
plays well with IMAP, SSL mail, multiple accounts, etc pretty well (a lot
of others only seem to want to to POP *spit*, and/or can't handle multiple
mail accounts). Further, subjectively, unlike a lot of other GUI mail
applications Mail.app doesn't get in my way, as most of the others do --
Outlook, Notes, Mozilla [yes, even Mozilla] etc all make my skin crawl.

Eudora on the other hand is also not bad (I used the Windows version for a
year at an old job, and it was acceptable), and the old Classic version of
Outlook Express is actually really good (haven't tried the OSX version, if
there is one by now, but considering how awful Outlook is the pleasantness
of OE/Mac by comparison is striking). IMO these are all okay but I'm still
far more productive [1] with Pine. For the rare occasion when a full blown
GUI mailer, I don't care to give more disc space to something else when
Mail.app does the job pretty nicely.

IMO, of course.


[1] for some values of productive


-- 
Chris Devers[EMAIL PROTECTED]

maintainance, n.
The replacement of one set of error states by another.

Ideally, the latter should be nonintersecting with, and more
catastrophic than, the former. In routine maintainence the replacement
is applied on a regular basis, so that DOWNTIME increases in an
orderly, controlled, monotonic sequence. The system gracefully
converges to a state of OBSOLESCENCE on a date convenient for the
marketing deparment.

-- from _The Computer Contradictionary_, Stan Kelly-Bootle, 1995
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Re: [Boston.pm] OT: Favorite Mac OS X utilities

[Peter R. Wood]

> 4. More in-depth books than "Missing Manual". Hints on hardware
> especially  helpful.

Run, don't walk, to get O'Reilly's "Mac OS X For UNIX Geeks" - if want to
leverage your UNIX knowledge with your new Mac system, this book will be
invaluable. I got a copy for Christmas... it's very handy.

> 5. Sources of mac hardware/reviews. I still can't believe the premium I
> have to pay for a "Mac" video card...

I buy lots of stuff for my Macs at Other World Computing:
http://www.macsales.com/  -- they don't have everything, though. Small Dog
Electronics (based in VT) is also a good place: http://www.smalldog.com/

I'm also the member of the very active "All Things Macintosh" web forum at
dslreports.com.  We welcome switchers and the folks are usually very
willing to answer your questions:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/macdsl

There are some very knowledgeable people in there, and we have a good time
too. ;-)

> 6. Any other tips for a windows convert.

Keep up on the latest Mac software, news, etc:

http://versiontracker.com/macosx/  - tracks new Mac software releases
http://www.macintouch.com/ - Mac news and commentary
http://www.lowendmac.com/ - for folks like you who have older Macs
http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/ - Mac hardware reviews and news, very good if
you're considering any type of upgrade for your Mac, be it CPU, Video,
memory, hard disk...

Enjoy!

Peter

-- 
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Re: [Boston.pm] OT: Favorite Mac OS X utilities

[Chris Nandor]

At 11:47 -0500 2003.01.03, Andrew M. Langmead wrote:
>The Oroboro OS X window manager  is a very

Ob Pedantic: It is "OroborOSX", which is a combination of "Oroborous" and
"Mac OS X".

http://www.dreamind.de/oroborus.shtml


>The unicode support is nice. Your foreign spam comes in its proper
>script, rather than funny escape characters that mess up for text
>display (like frequently happens with mutt)

Eudora also does Unicode, FWIW.  Not that I would choose a mail client
based on how well it rendered my spam.  :-)



>> 4. More in-depth books than "Missing Manual". Hints on hardware especially
>> helpful.
>
>Apple Developer Connection 

You can get a free membership to ADC, or pay money to get more access.
Mostly, the membership is useful for being able to download beta software.

Also note that the Mac OS X Developer Docs are installed in
/Developer/Documentation/ (I put a symlink to this in my local Apache
server, with a lot of other local docs I keep around), if you have the dev
tools installed.

There's also various Mac OS X perl modules, including Mac::Carbon which I
demo'd at the last Boston.pm meeting.

-- 
Chris Nandor  [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://pudge.net/
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Re: [Boston.pm] OT: Favorite Mac OS X utilities

[Andrew M. Langmead]

On Thu, Jan 02, 2003 at 11:10:02AM -0500, Drew Taylor wrote:
> 2. What are your favorite/must have utilities?

Just to make sure, has anyone pointed out the Fink project to you?
 These are ports of common Unix utilties
and applications to Mac OS X. Its a convenient way to get most of the
utilities one would be comfortable with under a Linux-style unix. And
to get the libraries needed for building your favorite Perl XS modules
(that is a feeble attempt to bring this on topic.)

The Oroboro OS X window manager  is a very
Aqua looking window manager, so you can run a rootless X server and
not have your window's aesthetics clash.

> 3. Are you using Mail for email? Plusses & minuses are welcome.

Mail is neat for its use of the Services menu ("Mail To" and "Mail
Selection" items that are available from other applications) and for
its drag and drop behavior. (dragging an attachment from the mail
window to the finder copies the attachment to that location. Dragging
the attachment into a terminal window types the pathname to the
controlling terminal, etc.)

The unicode support is nice. Your foreign spam comes in its proper
script, rather than funny escape characters that mess up for text
display (like frequently happens with mutt)


> 4. More in-depth books than "Missing Manual". Hints on hardware especially 
> helpful.

Apple Developer Connection 


-- 
"Daddy, why aren't you at work. You mean your boss lets you do that
sometimes?"  -- Samantha Langmead, age 5.
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Re: [Boston.pm] OT: Favorite Mac OS X utilities

[David Cantrell]

On Thu, Jan 02, 2003 at 01:31:25PM -0500, Drew Taylor wrote:
> I know everyone raves about mutt, and will probably look into it at some 
> point. But it seems strange to be using a text-oriented mail program in one 
> of the prettiest GUI's available.

What do you mean? I use mutt all the time using olvwm.

-- 
David Cantrell | Benevolent Dictator | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david

   Willing to accept a lower economic "standard of
   living" in return for higher quality of life
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Re: [Boston.pm] OT: Favorite Mac OS X utilities

[Erik Price]

On Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 11:10  AM, Drew Taylor wrote:


I've recently gotten a Mac OS X (10.2.3) box up & running.


DREW TAYLOR WINS.  FLAWLESS VICTORY.


1. Are there any local Mac mailing lists? I'm subscribed to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] already.
2. What are your favorite/must have utilities?

BBEdit, worth every penny.  This editor was designed with the Perl 
programmer in mind (though it also works nicely with AppleScript, and 
any shell-based scripting language like Python or Ruby).  If you know 
Perl, and perhaps a little AppleScript (just enough to call a Perl 
script), you can extend BBEdit in so many ways.  Download the free 
trial (not BBEdit Lite, rather the full-version trial) from 
http://www.barebones.com/ and put it through its paces, you get 24 days 
(I think).  I had a job last year programming in PHP, where I was 
fortunate enough to get to use a Mac, and I have to say that this text 
editor

3. Are you using Mail for email? Plusses & minuses are welcome.


Yes.  Pluses include the sweet control over quoting and the spam filter 
system (very smoothly integrated) in a nice Cocoa interface.  Minuses 
include slight slowness (perhaps more so on your more venerable 
machine), not very powerful feature set compared to Eudora and others 
-- for instance, you can't choose to download HTML images on a 
per-email basis which would be nice for those of us who leave this 
turned off but occasionally would like to view an email in HTML format.

I hated Mail when it first came out but Apple did improve it quite a 
bit.  I can't say it has any single feature that makes it a killer app, 
it's just the way that Mail integrates with everything that makes it 
feel like an extension of the OS, sort of.  Like right now I'm 
composing this email in Mail, and if I had you in my iChat buddy list 
then I'd see a little green dot if you were online right now.  This is 
really hardly worth switching over from Eudora if you know and love it, 
but if you just grow into using Mail, it becomes very comfortable.

Also, I appreciate that it is smoothly integrated with Address Book, 
which I keep iSynced to my Treo, though I'm sure you'll see lots more 
software that hooks into Address Book in the future.  I think Mozilla 
has a nice mail client too, and I use that at work (on Win32), but 
there are things that I find myself missing from Mail.app when I am at 
work.

4. More in-depth books than "Missing Manual". Hints on hardware 
especially helpful.

"MacOS X Unleashed" looked good (more in-depth and less introductory 
than "Missing Manual", but I didn't read it.  I'm reading "Learning 
Cocoa w/Obj-C" and I think it's a good book so far, but I don't think 
it's terribly in-depth.  It's an introductory book.

6. Any other tips for a windows convert.


Since you're on a Perl mailing list, I'll assume you're interested in 
development -- make sure you've installed the Developer Tools.  It's a 
hefty few hundred MB but it's well worth it.  You get gcc and also 
Project Builder, which is Apple's IDE for Cocoa and Java programming, 
plus the Java SDK (soon to support 1.4.1 IIRC) and other GUI/CLI 
utilities.

It's not Linux, so I think that those who approach it thinking that all 
Mac software is going to be open source/free are going to be 
disappointed.  But just about any open source Unix app should run on 
MacOS X.  Use Fink ( http://fink.sourceforge.net ) if you would like a 
package manager for historically-Unix software like XFree86 or the 
Gimp.  (But if you prefer to roll your own, gcc comes with the 
Developer Tools.)

More and more I'm becoming comfortable with the ways that the OS is 
well-integrated with the applications, and applications are 
well-integrated with each other.  Sometimes I wonder if I should be 
afraid (a la Windows' integration with Internet Explorer), but none of 
the integrations are "required", so it's a win/win situation.

Performance wise, it helps to have a lot of RAM.  I'm assuming that on 
your beige you'll experience similar.  It feels like the OS was 
designed to take advantage of the kind of hardware that will be rolling 
out over the next couple of years -- forward thinking, but a bit 
debilitating for those of us who are using the machines of today or 
yesterday. The JVM is dog slow.  I have a 500mHz G3 w/384MB and it's 
just not worth running most large Java apps (plus they kind of stand 
out against the "native" Cocoa/Carbon apps on MacOS X).  This is 
especially sore for me because I like Java and develop with it at work.

I really love MacOS X -- it's not completely faultless, but it gives me 
the power and features of Linux but without making me micromanage every 
little detail of the OS.  You can micromanage if you want -- but if you 
just want to get stuff done, the OS pretty much takes care of itself.



Erik



--
Erik Price

email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]







--
Erik Price

email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [Boston.pm] OT: Favorite Mac OS X utilities

[Dan Sugalski]

At 2:18 PM -0500 1/2/03, darren chamberlain wrote:

* Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2003-01-02 14:08]:

 At 1:31 PM -0500 1/2/03, Drew Taylor wrote:
 > I know everyone raves about mutt, and will probably look into it at
 > some point. But it seems strange to be using a text-oriented mail
 > program in one of the prettiest GUI's available. ;-) I also wonder
 > if Mail.app is the best available GUI email program for OS X.

 I've not used Mail.app, but I do use Eudora. As mail clients go, it's
 pretty nice, and free (Which is a good thing) if you don't mind a
 small and unobtrusive ad window. (Or reduced functionality)


Since he's already using Eudora on Windows ("at work", or so he claims ;),
that might be a pretty painless switch.


Dead-simple. Copy your Windows mail folder over and tell Mac eudora 
about it and you're set. (Done it both ways, works very nicely)

(darren)

PS I don't *really* have anything interesting to say in this message,
   but thought I did when I started it; but when my random sig generator
   produced what it did, I felt I had to at least send it along...

--
Remember, any design flaw you're sufficiently snide about becomes a
feature.


D'oh! I'd forgotten I'd said that. (Wow, my first sigquoting! I feel 
so special now... :)
--
Dan

--"it's like this"---
Dan Sugalski  even samurai
[EMAIL PROTECTED] have teddy bears and even
  teddy bears get drunk
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Re: [Boston.pm] OT: Favorite Mac OS X utilities

[Dan Sugalski]

At 2:24 PM -0500 1/2/03, Drew Taylor wrote:

At 02:09 PM 1/2/03 -0500, Dan Sugalski wrote:


I've not used Mail.app, but I do use Eudora. As mail clients go, 
it's pretty nice, and free (Which is a good thing) if you don't 
mind a small and unobtrusive ad window. (Or reduced functionality)

I've been a Eudora user for many years now. I wondered if there was 
a good reason to switch to Mail.app. The junk filter seems nice, but 
I keep meaning to start doing filtering on the server anyway. And 
the ad window doesn't bother me since I think I've clicked on it a 
couple times in all my time of using Eudora. :-)

Yep--server-based filtering definitely wins if you can do it. (I've 
spamassassin and a slowly-growing IP ban-list, which works pretty 
well) I've heard rumors that there's a way to get Eudora to do spam 
filtering, but I think it'd be easier to set up a local mailserver as 
an intermediate and filter there instead.

I should note that I've been a happy Eudora user since Eudora Lite 
1.5, and that's a *long* time ago... :)
--
Dan

--"it's like this"---
Dan Sugalski  even samurai
[EMAIL PROTECTED] have teddy bears and even
  teddy bears get drunk
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Re: [Boston.pm] OT: Favorite Mac OS X utilities

[Drew Taylor]

At 02:09 PM 1/2/03 -0500, Dan Sugalski wrote:


I've not used Mail.app, but I do use Eudora. As mail clients go, it's 
pretty nice, and free (Which is a good thing) if you don't mind a small 
and unobtrusive ad window. (Or reduced functionality)

I've been a Eudora user for many years now. I wondered if there was a good 
reason to switch to Mail.app. The junk filter seems nice, but I keep 
meaning to start doing filtering on the server anyway. And the ad window 
doesn't bother me since I think I've clicked on it a couple times in all my 
time of using Eudora. :-)

Drew

--
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Re: [Boston.pm] OT: Favorite Mac OS X utilities

[darren chamberlain]

* Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2003-01-02 14:08]:
> At 1:31 PM -0500 1/2/03, Drew Taylor wrote:
> > I know everyone raves about mutt, and will probably look into it at 
> > some point. But it seems strange to be using a text-oriented mail 
> > program in one of the prettiest GUI's available. ;-) I also wonder 
> > if Mail.app is the best available GUI email program for OS X.
> 
> I've not used Mail.app, but I do use Eudora. As mail clients go, it's 
> pretty nice, and free (Which is a good thing) if you don't mind a 
> small and unobtrusive ad window. (Or reduced functionality)

Since he's already using Eudora on Windows ("at work", or so he claims ;),
that might be a pretty painless switch.

(darren)

PS I don't *really* have anything interesting to say in this message,
   but thought I did when I started it; but when my random sig generator
   produced what it did, I felt I had to at least send it along...

-- 
Remember, any design flaw you're sufficiently snide about becomes a
feature.
-- Dan Sugalski
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Re: [Boston.pm] OT: Favorite Mac OS X utilities

[Dan Sugalski]

At 1:31 PM -0500 1/2/03, Drew Taylor wrote:

I know everyone raves about mutt, and will probably look into it at 
some point. But it seems strange to be using a text-oriented mail 
program in one of the prettiest GUI's available. ;-) I also wonder 
if Mail.app is the best available GUI email program for OS X.

I've not used Mail.app, but I do use Eudora. As mail clients go, it's 
pretty nice, and free (Which is a good thing) if you don't mind a 
small and unobtrusive ad window. (Or reduced functionality)
--
Dan

--"it's like this"---
Dan Sugalski  even samurai
[EMAIL PROTECTED] have teddy bears and even
  teddy bears get drunk
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Re: [Boston.pm] OT: Favorite Mac OS X utilities

[Drew Taylor]

At 11:12 AM 1/2/03 -0500, darren chamberlain wrote:

* Drew Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2003-01-02 11:06]:
> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9
>
> I've recently gotten a Mac OS X (10.2.3) box up & running.

Not using it yet, though, huh?  :)


I should note that I sent the email from work where I am harnessed to NT 4. 
:-( But yes, I have the machine up & running but have not yet started using 
it on a daily basis. Problem #1 being that I have no built-in modem, no 
external modem on hand, and broadband is not available in the North End 
where I live.

> 2. What are your favorite/must have utilities?
> 3. Are you using Mail for email? Plusses & minuses are welcome.

I'm not a Mac user, so I don't have any OS X-specific advice, but
remember that all/most of your favorite Unix utilities will run under OS
X -- be sure to include some of the better ones in your considerations.

For example, mutt -- the best MUA available, bar none -- will work just
fine under OS X.


I know everyone raves about mutt, and will probably look into it at some 
point. But it seems strange to be using a text-oriented mail program in one 
of the prettiest GUI's available. ;-) I also wonder if Mail.app is the best 
available GUI email program for OS X.

Drew

--
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http://www.drewtaylor.com/ | perl/mod_perl/DBI/mysql/postgres
--
"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do,
you'd better not start writing it."  -Edsger Dijkstra
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Re: [Boston.pm] OT: Favorite Mac OS X utilities

[Ron Newman]

On Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 11:10  AM, Drew Taylor wrote:


1. Are there any local Mac mailing lists? I'm subscribed to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] already.

You'll want to get on the announcement list for the
Boston Mac Users' Group, bmac.org .  Here's the annoncement
for next week's meeting:

---
From: "Jonathan A. Duke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu Jan 2, 2003  10:45:38  AM US/Eastern
To: Multiple recipients of BMac-Announce - Sent by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: BMac-Jan 2003-MacWorld, Mostly Live!

As is our tradition, we'll be featuring Steve Jobs' MacWorld Keynote 
for our meeting this month.

Also, we'll have people standing by with answers to some of your 
questions after the video.

And, of course, we'll have some special give-aways!!!

We'll see you there!


Now for the pertinent info:

Date:January 8, 2002
Time:7:00 PM
Place:   MIT campus, building E51, Room 315. Signs the night of the
meeting will direct you to the proper building and room.

Building E51 is on the corner of Memorial Drive and Wadsworth Street.
If you need a map, please check out our website at
.
Directions are below.

It is about a 10 minute walk from the Kendall Red Line stop.
Parking is available off of Hayward Street.  Neon yellow signs will be
posted the night of the meeting.

Thanks,
Jon Duke
BMac Executive Director
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


Please note the agenda for the meeting at the end of this message.


Sign up for the automated BMac main meeting announcer...
Send an Internet mail message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with no body
text or subject.

The BMac announcement list is a low-volume list (3-5 messages per month)
intended to keep our membership informed of the happenings within the
group as well as any special events that may be of interest.

To unsubscribe from this list:
Send an Internet mail message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with no body
text or subject.

Directions:

- From Memorial Drive Eastbound (toward Science Museum):

Take the underpass under Mass Ave. Take first left off Memorial Drive
after underpass. This is Wadsworth Street. Go one block and E51 is on
the left hand corner of Amherst and Wadsworth Streets. For parking,
make a left on the corner and continue down to Hayward Street. Make a
right on Hayward Street and park in the lot on the left hand side.

- From Downtown Boston: Take Longfellow Bridge to Kendall Square.
Continue on Broadway. Take first possible left onto Ames Street, cross
Main Street, turn left on Amherst and continue for two blocks. E51 is
the right corner of Amherst and Wadsworth. For parking, go back down
Amherst Street one block to Hayward Street. Make a right on Hayward
Street and park in the lot on the left hand side.

- T: Take Red Line to Kendall Square stop. From the T head over toward
Au Bon Pain, take right onto Wadsworth St. The E51 building is at the
corner of Wadsworth and Amherst Street.


Agenda for Meeting:

7:00	Welcome & Announcements
7:05	Keynote Video
9:00	Giveaways

--
Jonathan A. Duke
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Executive Director
Boston Macintosh (BMac)
Boston's Premier Macintosh User Group

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Re: [Boston.pm] OT: Favorite Mac OS X utilities

[darren chamberlain]

* Drew Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2003-01-02 11:06]:
> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9
>
> I've recently gotten a Mac OS X (10.2.3) box up & running.

Not using it yet, though, huh?  :)

> 2. What are your favorite/must have utilities?
> 3. Are you using Mail for email? Plusses & minuses are welcome.

I'm not a Mac user, so I don't have any OS X-specific advice, but
remember that all/most of your favorite Unix utilities will run under OS
X -- be sure to include some of the better ones in your considerations.

For example, mutt -- the best MUA available, bar none -- will work just
fine under OS X.

(darren)

-- 
An operating system is just a name you give the features you left out
of your editor.
-- Per Abrahamsen in comp.emacs
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[Boston.pm] OT: Favorite Mac OS X utilities

[Drew Taylor]

Sorry for the OT post, but I know there are lots of OS X users on this 
list. :-)

I've recently gotten a Mac OS X (10.2.3) box up & running. It's a beige G3 
running at 266MHz (not too bad w/ 400+MB of RAM). Now I'm trying to make 
the Switch. I've read Pogue's "Missing Manual" and found it very helpful. 
My primary questions now are:

1. Are there any local Mac mailing lists? I'm subscribed to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
already.
2. What are your favorite/must have utilities?
3. Are you using Mail for email? Plusses & minuses are welcome.
4. More in-depth books than "Missing Manual". Hints on hardware especially 
helpful.
5. Sources of mac hardware/reviews. I still can't believe the premium I 
have to pay for a "Mac" video card...
6. Any other tips for a windows convert.

Thanks for your help!

Drew
--
Drew Taylor| Web development & consulting
http://www.drewtaylor.com/ | perl/mod_perl/DBI/mysql/postgres
--
"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do,
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