Re: Clean high tech solutions

[John Garcia]

On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 10:47 AM, Jon Louis Mann wrote:

>
> > I'm reading John Varley's Slow Apocalypse. The premise is
> > that all un-processed petroleum is destroyed by an act of
> > bio-terrorism. In the middle of it right now, but so far
> > it's scaring the spit out of me.
> > john
>
> why?
>
>
I know intellectually that we live in a fragile civilization, but I suppose
that I haven't felt it emotionally. But seeing Sandy's effects on my city
(I live in Washington Heights, a neighborhood in Manhattan that thankfully
was spared the devastation in other neighborhoods of the city), makes me
begin to *feel* just how fragile things are. ConEd loses a substation and
suddenly 200k people don't have power. No power and there is no way to pump
water to floors in buildings. First responders are overwhelmed. A
neighborhood is destroyed by fire because there is no water pressure in the
hydrants to fight the fire.

So I suppose I'm in the *right* frame of mind to read Varley's book. Next
up is Barnes' Directive 51.

john



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Re: Power and civilization

[John Garcia]

I'm picking up Directive 51 from the NY Public Library in the next day or
two.

On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 7:39 PM, Pat Mathews  wrote:

>  John Barnes' Directive 51 went it one better - ALL petroleum and
> petroleum products. It did devolve into the question of whether it was a
> centrally organized conspiracy, preferably from abroad, or a spontaneous
> movement; in fact, the entire US splits over that question, thanks to a
> disagreement in the administration on whose watch it happens. There is a
> sequel; not sure there is a third.
>
> --
> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 18:49:34 -0500
> Subject: Re: Power and civilization
> From: john...@gmail.com
> To: brin-l@mccmedia.com
>
> I'm reading John Varley's Slow Apocalypse. The premise is that all
> un-processed petroleum is destroyed by an act of bio-terrorism. In the
> middle of it right now, but so far it's scaring the spit out of me.
>
> john
>
> On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 5:26 PM,  wrote:
>
> **
>
> Twas in Last And First Men, by Olaf Stapledon, I think, where all future
> civilizations had their power based upon alcohol. Nothing stored from the
> past was left.
>
>
> In a message dated 11/29/2012 12:58:45 P.M. US Mountain Standard Tim,
> net_democr...@yahoo.com writes:
>
> The measure of a civilization could be said to be it's consumption of
> energy and how it uses resources.  Conspicuous v. sustainable...
>
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Re: Power and civilization

[John Garcia]

I'm reading John Varley's Slow Apocalypse. The premise is that all
un-processed petroleum is destroyed by an act of bio-terrorism. In the
middle of it right now, but so far it's scaring the spit out of me.

john

On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 5:26 PM,  wrote:

> **
>
> Twas in Last And First Men, by Olaf Stapledon, I think, where all future
> civilizations had their power based upon alcohol. Nothing stored from the
> past was left.
>
>
> In a message dated 11/29/2012 12:58:45 P.M. US Mountain Standard Tim,
> net_democr...@yahoo.com writes:
>
> The measure of a civilization could be said to be it's consumption of
> energy and how it uses resources.  Conspicuous v. sustainable...
>
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Re: Brin: Existence has arrived...

[John Garcia]

Thanks Nick!

On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 4:26 PM, Nick Arnett  wrote:

> I made up for John by buying the hardcover and the Kobo e-book.
>
> Had pre-ordered the hardcover on Amazon, then ended up traveling without
> and was overcome by the desire to read on, so I bought and downloaded the
> latter (and finished it on my trip).
>
> Nick
>
> On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 12:15 PM, John Garcia  wrote:
>
>> i borrowed the hardcover from the NYPL (sorry Dr. B, but the budget is
>> tight this year and i was not willing to wait for the paperback, although i
>> will buy that when it is available) and that cover is pretty cool. the
>> trailer was great.
>> i will have to read it again but i have to digest it a bit. all in all, a
>> great many ideas to ponder upon. good work!
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 1:33 PM, David Brin  wrote:
>>
>>> Heh! Both covers are great though the lensatic one is so cool.
>>>
>>> I assume you've all seen the even-cooler preview trailer
>>> tinyurl.com/exist-trailer
>>>
>>> Thrive all
>>>
>>> --
>>> *From:* "kananda...@aol.com" 
>>> *To:* brin-l@mccmedia.com
>>> *Sent:* Wed, August 22, 2012 7:41:08 AM
>>> *Subject:* Re: Brin: Existence has arrived...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/22/2012 10:08 AM, Charlie Bell wrote:
>>>  It's a shiny "3D hologram" trade paperback. Very excited!
>>> Um. That's all.
>>>
>>> David wrote:
>>> It's interesting how books get published differently in different
>>> countries.
>>> I got the hardcover, which has a shiny dust jacket.
>>> I liked the book, although I do have some questions...
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> This seems to cry out for a comment like "I think the
>>> electrons making my ebook cover *may be shiny*".
>>> Good thing I am not young enough to have
>>> "accessory" envy.
>>>
>>> Dee :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>
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Re: Galileo was wrong!

[John Garcia]

On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 6:21 PM, John Garcia  wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 6:01 PM, Dan Minette  wrote:
>
>> >A few Catholics still insist Galileo was wrong - latimes.com
>>
>> It was a ROTFLMAO piece for me. It was really fun to see how both Notre
>> Dame
>> and the Vatican Observatory were in the "are these guy real?" mode. I gave
>> my first paper at a high energy physics symposium at Notre Dame, and saw
>> the
>> head of the Vatican Observatory and Steven Weinberg give a presentation on
>> Science and Faith together.
>>
>> It's funny, when you think about it.  A Protestant can rail against every
>> other church and found his own church.  But if you're an ultraconservative
>> Catholic, how in the world do you argue that the Pope is dead wrong on the
>> important issues?  Liberal Catholics can be anti-traditional, but how can
>> you be an ubertraditonalist that says tradition is horribly wrong. :-)
>>
>> Dan M.
>>
>>
>>
> Simple, you argue that he is not the real Pope, but an Anti-Pope ;-)
>
> john
> who had 12 years of Catholic education and always thought that Galileo had
> a raw deal
>
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Re: Galileo was wrong!

[John Garcia]

On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 6:01 PM, Dan Minette  wrote:

> >A few Catholics still insist Galileo was wrong - latimes.com
>
> It was a ROTFLMAO piece for me. It was really fun to see how both Notre
> Dame
> and the Vatican Observatory were in the "are these guy real?" mode. I gave
> my first paper at a high energy physics symposium at Notre Dame, and saw
> the
> head of the Vatican Observatory and Steven Weinberg give a presentation on
> Science and Faith together.
>
> It's funny, when you think about it.  A Protestant can rail against every
> other church and found his own church.  But if you're an ultraconservative
> Catholic, how in the world do you argue that the Pope is dead wrong on the
> important issues?  Liberal Catholics can be anti-traditional, but how can
> you be an ubertraditonalist that says tradition is horribly wrong. :-)
>
> Dan M.
>
>
>
Simple, you argue that he is not the real Pope, but an Anti-Pope ;-)

john
who had 12 years of Catholic education and always thought that Galileo had a
raw deal
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Re: Long Time Old Brin-Ler finally gets a real job.

[John Garcia]

Congrats!
On Feb 14, 2011 11:10 AM, "Dan Minette"  wrote:
> I thought a few old timers might be interested in the news that Gautam has
> just gotten an offer of a professorship at Harvard Business School. It
does
> sound like a mis-match, his PhD was in international affairs and security
> studies. But, his dissertation was on leadership, and it applies very well
> to organizational studies, so they offered him the position.
>
> Dan M.
>
>
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Re: Is anybody home?

[John Garcia]

On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 8:54 AM, Charlie Bell wrote:

>
> On 05/10/2010, at 11:43 PM, Julia wrote:
>
> > The list did NOT drop you.
>
> Not from enough altitude to hurt, anyway...
> >
> > I'm home, but will need to leave in less than 90 minutes to pick up a
> friend
> > at the dentist.
>
> That's an odd place to pick up... Bars and art galleries more traditional,
> no? ;-)
>
> So how is everyone? I've just had an odd week of ups and downs - Sunday I
> got to ride 3 laps of the UCI world championship course on fully closed
> roads, which was fun. (And bloody steep - 22% hurts) But last night came
> down with migraine, so been hiding in a dark quiet place. Only just getting
> over it and still fuzzy. Bleugh.
>
> C.
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I'm good, how are you? Sorry to hear about your migraine. How is everything
and everyone Down Under?

john
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Re: Having kids makes some people fulfilled

[John Garcia]

On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 9:03 AM, Jim Sharkey  wrote:

> Jim Sharkey
>
> 
>
>  Will you please stop bothering your sister Maru
>
But she started it first, and anyway, you always take her side!

john

stuck with TWO younger sisters Maru
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Re: Clash of Titans

[John Garcia]

On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 12:27 PM, Lance A. Brown wrote:

> Alberto Monteiro said the following on 6/4/2010 7:36 AM:
> > It's Evil, pure and simple Evil. Why they can't stick to History
> > or Mythology, or even stay close to the books the movie is
> > supposed to be based on, and just play with the visual? Those that
> > did that became classicals: Ben Hur, Caligula and 300 will be
> > forever remembered, while this Clash of Titans (like the previous)
> > will be thrown in the trash.
>
> Man!  I grew up on the original stop-motion-animated version of Clash of
> the Titans.  It was a B grade move, but it was a GREAT B grade movie!
>
> --[Lance]
>
>
That's 'cause the great Ray Harryhausen was the animator on that movie.
But Harry Hamlin, .

john
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Re: Question of the Day

[John Garcia]

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 11:42 PM, Ronn! Blankenship <
ronn_blankens...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> At 07:48 PM Monday 5/3/2010, John Garcia wrote:
>
>  On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 5:37 PM, Ronn! Blankenship <> ronn_blankens...@bellsouth.net>ronn_blankens...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> Any troubledome out there figured out if Zanzibar is still the right size?
>>
>>
>> To stand on?
>>
>>
>> john
>>
>
>
> http://www.metafilter.com/91591/ToDAY-third-MAY-twentyTEN-come-aGAIN
>
> See the first comment:  the author is not the only one . . .
>
>
> . . . ronn!  :)
>
>
Ha! That's great! John Brunner was ahead of his time.
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Re: Question of the Day

[John Garcia]

On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 5:37 PM, Ronn! Blankenship <
ronn_blankens...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> Any troubledome out there figured out if Zanzibar is still the right size?
>
>
To stand on?


john
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Re: national security and climate change

[John Garcia]

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 1:54 AM, Charlie Bell wrote:

>
> On 22/02/2010, at 11:34 AM, john...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > The US Army's Strategic Studies Institute has a number of papers
> addressing national security issues related to climate change. AFAIK, they
> are available for free as PDF downloads. Go here,
> > http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pubs/display.cfm?PubID=862
> > to see one published in August 2008. Food for thought, eh?
>
> Yes. I've read most of that lot in the past.
>
> But it's still a hoax, apparently. *sigh*
>
> Charlie.
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Indeed.

john
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Re: The worst

[John Garcia]

On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 4:47 PM, Nick Arnett  wrote:

> My friends I hate to write this.  Been putting it off for a while.
>
> My younger sister, Lesley, the youngest of the four of us, mother of my
> five-year-old niece, Sarah, could not fight off the sepsis that attacked her
> body.  Lesley died this morning.
>
> I have never hurt so much.
>
> Nick
>
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>
I am so sorry for your loss. Lesley will live on in the memories of all who
loved her.

john
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They Did It!

[John Garcia]

Touchdown at 4:16pm Eastern.
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Re: Read 'em and weep . . .

[John Garcia]

On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 7:31 AM, Ronn! Blankenship <
ronn_blankens...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>
> http://comics.com/ed_stein/2009-07-18/
>
> http://comics.com/nate_beeler/2009-07-17/
>
> http://imgsrv.gocomics.com/dim/?fh=8b0d653f91b05d3bfba4972e68e47593&w=900.0
>
>
> http://cserver.rbma.com/content/Koterba?date=2009-07-18&referer=http://www.dailyink.com&uid=ot33z0&token=b27feq&size=large
>
> http://imgsrv.gocomics.com/dim/?fh=b887d26913fb01a315e094d7f1d418f1&w=750.0
>
> http://imgsrv.gocomics.com/dim/?fh=eb3a574e395d97fdefc555061d0d8471&w=900.0
>
>
> . . . ronn! :)
>
> I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon.
> I never dreamed that I would see the last.
>--Dr. Jerry Pournelle
>
>
>
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>
Great stuff! Thanks!

7 hours to landing.

john
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Re: WeChooseTheMoon

[John Garcia]

On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 12:32 PM, dsummersmi...@comcast.net <
dsummersmi...@comcast.net> wrote:

> An interesting aside on this.  It took the Mercury program a bit over 9
> months to go from the first sub-orbital flight to the first orbital flight.
>
> The big private enterprise sub-orbital flight happened almost 5 years ago
> (5 years this coming November IIRC).  It cost 100 million to develop, and
> won a prize of 10 million.  I can find nothing in development for private
> orbital flight. (By private I mean without government money, not government
> contractors).  I have no idea when it will happen, but I will bet a case of
> beer against one beer that it will be more than 10 years from the first
> sub-orbital flight.
>
> Yes, we have announcement of Virgin planning sub-orbital flights in a
> big-time manner, which will probably be close enough to break even to be
> worth it in PR.  And, the owner is a multi-billionaire who could afford it.
> But, I think it very worth noting that we are not talking about a step that
> took the government less than a year not being on the privatae horizen
> after 5 years.  There is something fundamental going on here, IMHO.
>
> Dan M.
>
>
>
> 
> mail2web.com – What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you?
> http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint
>
>
>
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>

Alan Shepard launched in May 1961. The last lunar mission, Apollo 17
launched in Dec 1972. Eleven years to go from one sub-orbital flight to
spending 3 days on the moon. That is an incredible accomplishment, the likes
of which we may never see again.

I watched Shepard's launch (on TV of course) and Apollo 17's midnight launch
(again on TV), and I probably won't live long enough to see the next lunar
launch and that pisses me off.

john
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Re: 1.8026174996769472E+12 furlongs per fortnight

[John Garcia]

On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 8:16 PM, Ronn! Blankenship <
ronn_blankens...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>
> http://www.nobrowcartoons.com/gallery/big_midres/201%20speed%20of%20light%20in%20vacuum.jpg
>
>
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there goes coffee on the monitor again!

john
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Re: Iran

[John Garcia]

On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 12:38 AM, Charlie Bell wrote:

>
> On 28/06/2009, at 1:25 PM, dsummersmi...@comcast.net wrote:
>
>> Um... a ship? Do you mean the Marines patrol boat a couple of years
>>> ago? Wasn't a ship.
>>>
>>
>> Sorry Charlie.  You have to remember that, when I was I kid I was on many
>> a
>> boat longer than 200 meters, with the biggest over 300 meters and > 30k
>> tons.   I realize that it wasn't a big ship, but the way I was raised:
>> saltwater=ship, freshwater=boat.  Size didn't matter.
>>
>
> It's not size, it's type. Submarines are boats... (they're also "it", not
> "she" to anyone who's not actually a submariner). :-)
>
> Sure, it's probably a regional usage difference (like "LEFT-enant" in
> Britain and Australia), but a patrol craft, a fast-attack craft (like the
> couple of hydrofoils with guns we've had over the years) or a merchant
> vessel with only 15 or so crew is usually a boat if you're talking about a
> British vessel.
>
> C.
>

That's how it was when I was in the USN, 29 years ago. Subs are 'boats' as
are small craft generally. Although, we used to refer to our ship as a
'boat' as in "Gotta report aboard the boat in the morning." (I served aboard
USS Eisenhower, but in an aircraft squadron, I was not in ship''s company).
And, I thought it was pronounced "LEF-tenant".

john
air-head maru
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Re: Know Your Flying Objects . . .

[John Garcia]

2009/4/2 Ronn! Blankenship 

> http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/6465/airforceufoidchartkl6.jpg
>
>
>
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So now everyone at work thinks I'm nuts for laughing out loud!

still, it was great. keep 'em flying!

john
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Re: Australian Fires and Floods

[John Garcia]

On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 9:23 PM, sendai  wrote:

> Euan Ritchie wrote:
> >> It was almost a "perfect storm" for fire conditions.
> >>
> >
> > I'm 1,500 miles downwind and was reminded of the end to "The Sheep Look
> > Up" last night when I thought I could smell faint burning on the air.
> >
>
> I felt the same... I woke at ~2am, and I smelt burning outside. I looked
> up the local file listings and saw that they hadn't been updated since
> Friday. I then checked the wind and synoptic-charts from the past few
> days and saw that it was feasible that the winds from down there had
> brought with it dust and smoke... I still don't see any bush-fires or
> large-fires listed here, so it was either a bonfire or psychosomatic.
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New York Times reports 173 dead, hundreds homeless, and that the fire may
have been set.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/10/world/asia/10australia.html

good luck to all down under

john
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Inauguration

[John Garcia]

I love this stuff, the Ruffles and Flourishes, 21 gun salute, the Marine
Band playing Stars and Stripes Forever. I liked
Obama's speech. Maybe not as good as the Grant Park victory speech, but way
up there. So one administration
ends and another begins. Stay tuned


to quote a friend of mine the day after the election:
"Ain't this some shit!"

john
what's next maru
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Re: airliner ditches in hudson river

[John Garcia]

On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 6:18 PM, Rceeberger  wrote:

>
> On 1/15/2009 4:01:48 PM, John Garcia (john...@gmail.com) wrote:
> > a US Airways Airbus A320 went down in the Hudson River near the USS
> > Intrepid
> > after a bird strike
> > crippled the engines
> >
> > http://wcbstv.com/breakingnewsalerts/us.airways.crash.2.909535.html
> >
> > john
> > you can't make this up maru
>
> Man..those people onboard were extraordinarily fortunate, and that
> pilot
> amazingly good!
>
>
> xponent
> Prepare For Impact Maru
> rob
>
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apparently the pilot, a former USAF fighter pilot, also was an experienced
glider pilot. good thing, because without power, that airbus was essentially
a glider.

your seat cushion may also be used as a flotation device maru
john
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Re: Number 6 is dead

[John Garcia]

On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 8:47 AM, Jim Sharkey  wrote:

> John Garcia wrote:
>
> >he wasn't a number, but a free man.
>
> My dad of all people turned me onto that show.  So great and weird.  I'll
> have to play Maiden's "The Village" later on.
>
> Jim
> Who is number Maru?
>
>
> 
> MBA Program
> Click for free info on getting an MBA, $200K/ year potential.
>
> http://tagline.excite.com/fc/BK72PcZZfz6E3oOc00Y99Iay0UTrXA4VmZpzzR4bAzafGBVy05ySrq/
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I remember when it premiered on network TV all those years ago. I'm still
trying to figure it out.

still love the theme to Secret Agent Man maru
john
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airliner ditches in hudson river

[John Garcia]

a US Airways Airbus A320 went down in the Hudson River near the USS Intrepid
after a bird strike
crippled the engines

http://wcbstv.com/breakingnewsalerts/us.airways.crash.2.909535.html

john
you can't make this up maru
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Re: Number 6 is dead

[John Garcia]

On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 5:52 PM, Rceeberger  wrote:

>
> http://www.latimes.com/news/obituaries/la-me-patrick-mcgoohan15-2009jan15,0,3951859.story
>
>
>
> xponent
> Number 5 Is Alive Maru
> rob
>
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>

he wasn't a number, but a free man.

RIP
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Re: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?

[John Garcia]

On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Nick Arnett  wrote:

> On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 3:12 PM, Alberto Vieira Ferreira Monteiro <
> albm...@centroin.com.br> wrote:
>
> >
> > Why there are no natural gas cars in the USA?
>
>
> There are.  I see them all the time around here.  Some public utilities run
> all their vehicles on compressed natural gas. Here in California, CNG
> vehicles can use carpool lanes with a solo occupant.
>
> I'm also seeing more "dual-fuel" badges on new cars -- gasoline or ethanol.
>  Our neighbor has a big SUV that is ready to run on corn.
>
> Nick
> ___
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>

NYC has some city-owned cars and buses running CNG. There is also an
initiative to use CNG for the taxi fleet.

john
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Re: 1-1-09

[John Garcia]

On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 5:50 AM, Rceeberger  wrote:

> Happy New Year
>
>
>
>
>
>
> xponent
> MaruMaru
> rob
> ___
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>

I hope that all of you have a Happy, Healthy and Prosperous New Year!!

john
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Re: Calvin and Hobbes explain the bailout

[John Garcia]

On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 1:57 PM, Dave Land  wrote:

> Folks,
>
> Bill Watterson is a certifiable genius:
>
>http://budurl.com/5c72
>
> Published more than a dozen years ago (I don't have my son's box set
> handy to check the exact date).
>
> I sure miss that comic strip.
>
> Dave
>
> ___
> http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
>


Classic!

thankx

john
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Re: On Topic shocker!

[John Garcia]

On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 3:32 PM, John Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 11:24 AM, Nick Arnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> > Ruled???!  I don't think we elected a dictator.
>
> What happens if someone breaks a law that Obama manages to push
> through Congress because of a perceived mandate? How is that not being
> ruled?
>

   Why, if that person is convicted, he or she will face the penalties the
law provides for.
   And, all mandates are a matter of perception.


>
> > If I hadn't consented to be so governed, I guess I'd have left the
> country
> > or worked to overthrow our form of government.  Do you imagine that all
> the
> > people who didn't vote for Obama are doing one of those things?
>
> Is there no middle ground? One must consent, or leave the country /
> start a rebellion?


  Certainly citizens have avenues open to them in which they can seek to
have a particular
  law repealed. If that political process fails, one may seek to have the
law declared unconstitutional. If
  the law passes constitutional muster, one either accepts the law and
abides by it, or one chooses
  to ignore it. Technically speaking, if one ignores a law, one is in
rebellion.

  Of course, it is our revolutionary right, spelled out in the Declaration
of Independence, to rebel against an unjust government.
  Or one can leave the country.
  But more likely, one will just complain.

  john

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>
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Re: Four years ago today...

[John Garcia]

On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 8:32 PM, Nick Arnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> It was on this day, in 2004, at the Fallujah train station, that my niece's
> husband was blown to bits by a rocket.
>
> I sure hope that our new administration takes us in the direction he has
> promised in Iraq.  Someday, I hope to see where Wes gave his life.
>
> Nick
> ___
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>

My deepest and most heartfelt sympathies go out to your niece, you and the
rest of Wes' family.

john
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Re: Racial and Gender bigotry

[John Garcia]

On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Julia Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, 23 Oct 2008, Jon Louis Mann wrote:
>
> >>> I agree with John and all the others who think that
> >> the best man or  woman
> >>> for the job is the best man or woman for the job!
> >> If you believe that then you must also believe either
> >> a) white men are remarkably better at important jobs
> >> than other people, or
> >> b) there is a distinct bias against people who aren't
> >> white men for  important jobs.
> >> If you believe (b) don't you think something should be
> >> done about that?
> >> Ideals Maru
> >> William T Goodall
> >
> > i absolutely do believe there is a distinct bias against people who
> aren't white men for important jobs in government.  do you deny it?
> > i also believe something should be done about it.
> > do you believe that white men are remarkably better at important jobs
> than other people?
> > jon
>
> I think better access to the kind of education and social networking
> opportunities that white males are a lot more likely to have access to
> when they're young would make it easier for women and minorities to make
> better inroads.  So then we just work on solving *that* problem, and the
> bigger one we've been discussing will be a lot closer to being solved in
> 30 years.
>
> (No, I'm not sure just how to do that.  I think giving scholarships to
> appropriate colleges based on *zip code* in the US will get around any
> race-based restrictions one way or the other but will get more of the
> minorities in the door with carefully selected zip codes.)
>
>Julia
>
> ___
> http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
>

I completely agree with you Julia. The more that I think about it, and the
more that I see in the world, indicates to me that Who You Know edges out
What You Know. This is nothing new, which is shown by the fact that the
phrase "It's now what you know, but who you know" exists. The 'old boy'
network exists, and I don't know what to do about it.

john
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Re: Racial and Gender imbalance

[John Garcia]

On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 8:30 PM, Kevin B. O'Brien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> John Garcia wrote:
> > As I have said before, my vote is given to the candidate who most closely
> > matches my values. Ethnic pride aside, I would not vote for a candidate
> > simply because she was a Latina, just as I would not vote for a candidate
> > because he or she is a US Navy veteran, Roman Catholic, attended Jesuit
> high
> > school, played stickball, grew up in Harlem or listens to Tito Puente.
> >
> But I'd give points for listening to Tito Puente, at least.
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Kevin B. O'Brien TANSTAAFL
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Linux User #333216
>
> "There is much to be said in favor of modern journalism. By giving us
> the opinions of the uneducated, it keeps us in touch with the ignorance
> of the community." - Oscar Wilde
> ___
> http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
>

Yeah, that would get him or her points. And more if he/she also listened to
the Fania All Stars, Parliament/Funkadelic, James Brown, the list goes on.

don't fake the funk maru

john
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Re: Racial and Gender bigotry

[John Garcia]

On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 6:31 PM, Jon Louis Mann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> 
> i would not say that qualified is entirely irrelevant, but i would say that
> experience is not always an advantage (for mccain/palin!~).
> all i am saying is that bigotry exists...
> jon
>
>
>
>
> ___
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>

Sure does. Probably always will.

john
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Re: Racial and Gender imbalance

[John Garcia]

On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 5:06 PM, Wayne Eddy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Jon Louis Mann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" 
> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 6:29 AM
> > Subject: Racial and Gender imbalance
> >> let me ask you the same question, john.  who do YOU think is qualified?
> >> based on what values?  i don't pretend to claim to know enough about
> >> qualified hispanic women to answer your question, but i would like to
> ask
> >> you why you think there are, or are not, more hispanic women in
> >> government
> >> in proportion to their population demographic?  that is the real point i
> >> am making which you still have not addressed.
> >> jon
> >
> > If you don't claim to know enough about qualified hispanic women to
> answer
> > John's question which is a very reasonable question considering the
> > previous
> > posts, perhaps you shouldn't have made your original statement in the
> > first
> > place.
> >
> > I agree with John and all the others who think that the best man or woman
> > for the job is the best man or woman for the job!
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Wayne.
>
> Sorry, on re-reading that it is perhaps a bit harsher than I intended.
> Instead I should have just congratulated John Garcia on doing research on
> behalf of his opponent and still winning the debate hands down.
>
> Regards,
>
> Wayne.
>
> ___
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>

Thanks Wayne, but I'm not trying to play gotcha, and if it seems like that I
apologize.

john
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Re: Racial and Gender imbalance

[John Garcia]

On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 5:26 PM, William T Goodall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

>
> On 23 Oct 2008, at 21:52, Wayne Eddy wrote:
> >
> > I agree with John and all the others who think that the best man or
> > woman
> > for the job is the best man or woman for the job!
> >
>
> If you believe that then you must also believe either
>
> a) white men are remarkably better at important jobs than other people
>
> or
>
> b) there is a distinct bias against people who aren't white men for
> important jobs.
>
> If you believe (b) don't you think something should be done about that?
>
>
> Ideals Maru
>
> --
> William T Goodall
> Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
> Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/
>
> "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit
> atrocities." ~Voltaire.
>
> ___
> http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
>

or

c) There is a bias against
i) People who did not go to an 'elite' school or university
   ii) People who come from a 'lower class' demographic
  iii) People who have not had the same economic, cultural and social
advantages as others

I could go on.

Not every non-white is disadvantaged and not every white is overly
advantaged (although Chris Rock once said that the poorest white man would
not trade places with a black multi-millionaire).

john
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Re: Racial and Gender imbalance

[John Garcia]

On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 5:09 PM, Jon Louis Mann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> > > let me ask you the same question, john.  who do YOU
> > think is qualified?
> > > based on what values?  i don't pretend to claim to
> > know enough about
> > > qualified hispanic women to answer your question, but
> > i would like to ask
> > > you why you think there are, or are not, more hispanic
> > women in government
> > > in proportion to their population demographic?  that
> > is the real point i
> > > am making which you still have not addressed.
> > > jon
>
> > If you don't claim to know enough about qualified
> > hispanic women to answer
> > John's question which is a very reasonable question
> > considering the previous
> > posts, perhaps you shouldn't have made your original
> > statement in the first
> > place.
>
> > I agree with John and all the others who think that the
> > best man or woman
> > for the job is the best man or woman for the job!
> > Regards,
> > Wayne.
>
> explain to me, wayne, why not being an expert on qualified hispanic women
> disqualifies me from having an opinion that hispanic women are
> underrepresented in government?  are either you or john experts? i very
> clearly stated in the very first post i made on this topic that i was
> referring to QUALIFIED hispanic women.  in fact i agree with both you and
> john that the
> merit should determine who is the best person for the job, regardless of
> race, religion or gender!the point i keep trying to make, which both you
> and john are persistently determined to ignore, is that these minorities
> continue to be underrepresented in proportion to their population
> demographic.
> jon
>
>
>
> ___
> http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
>

"Qualified" is irrelevant. We hear a lot of talk on both sides of the
campaign about qualifications for the Presidency. What would those be? Is
there an apprenticeship for the job? Is it like moving from journeyman to
master electrician?
ALL Presidents have been unqualified on Inaugural Day, except for those who
served more than one term. For me, the question is Who do I want to lead me
and this country?
Now, it appears that your question is why are Chicanos, Puerto Ricans,
Cubans, San Salvadorans, Peruvians, Argentinians, Chileans, Hondurans,
Dominicans, Costa Ricans, Bolivians, Venezuelans, and possibly some Latin
countries that I have forgotten, not sitting in Congress in proportion to
their demographic. Or why are Latin women underrepresented in government.
Could be many reasons, among them racisim, xenophobia, the tradition that
Latin women defer to Latin men, the fact that Latinos in the US who are
citizens or 2nd or 3rd generation are dispersed, and don't live in ethnic
communities, lower expectations for Latina women, the notion that politics
is a dirty business not fit for a Latin woman, the list goes on and on. If
any conspiracy exists, it is one to keep incumbents in office through
district redrawing.
But we don't see many women in Congress in proportion to their population,
or the Senate would be half male and half female, let alone Anglo, Latin,
Black, or Asian.
Listen, I'm not trying to get into an argument. If Ileana Ros-Lehtinen had
been born in Miami instead of Havana, McCain might have picked her instead
of Palin. I don't agree with her entirely, but I do agree that she has a
level of political experience that places her above Palin.

john
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Captain Renault Returns

[John Garcia]

>From the New York Times, http://tinyurl.com/6fx8fy,

"Alan Greenspan said he was in "a state of shocked disbelief" about the
breakdown in the ability of banks to regulate themselves"

Personally, I'm shocked that he is shocked.

Rick: "You're closing my place?! On what grounds?!"
Captain Renault: "I'm shocked, shocked to find there is gambling going on
here."
Croupier (to Renault): "Your winnings sir."

you must remember this maru
john
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Re: Racial and Gender imbalance

[John Garcia]

On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 5:15 PM, Jon Louis Mann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> > > > > I still would have preferred that Obama
> > > > > picked a qualified Hispanic woman for his
> > VP.
> > > Jon
>
> > > She would certainly be preferable to Palin!~)
> > > Seriously, there are many eligible Hispanic women who
> > are qualified to
> > > break the glass ceiling of vice presidential politics
> > for gender balance, as
> > > well as minority inclusion.
> > > Hispanics are fast becoming a majority in many parts
> > of America, so it is
> > > only right that they receive proportionate
> > representation in government at
> > > the highest levels.
> > > In my lifetime alone, enormous progress has been made,
> > partly because of
> > > affirmative action.
> > > Jon
>
> > I'll bite...
> > Would you care to name a few Latinas
> > that you feel would be qualified?
> > john
>
> I'll bite back, and take your bait, John.
> Surely you are you not suggesting that Hispanic women are not qualified to
> lead?   I doubt that you would reach such a racist and sexist conclusion.
> Back in 1968 Hispanic women started to address the imbalance:
> http://www.hwil.org/1.html
> Heer is a link to prominent Hispanic women in business:
> http://www.hbwa.net/
> Hispanic women in leadership:
> http://www.hwil.org/1.html
> Female Governors
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_state_governors_in_the_United_States#List_of_female_state_governors
>
> It is true that Hispanic women have rarely achieved the sort of prominence
> of Sarah Palin, but that has largely been because they are brown skinned and
> female.  I believe there has been one acting Hispanic female governor,
> however.  The first female governor elected without being the wife or widow
> of a past state governor was Ella T. Grasso of Connecticut in 1975.
>
> I was only able to find a couple Hispanic women in Congress:
> http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/popup/80elitewomen.asp?year=2003&id=115
> http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/popup/80elitewomen.asp?year=2003&id=114
> but no Senators, yet...
>
> That is slowly beginning to change with the emerging political power of
> Hispanics in certain sections of America.  It is also being expressed in the
> growth of Hispanic cultural worldwide.
>
> Finally, here is a link to delays in Senate Action on Judicial Nominations:
> http://leahy.senate.gov/press/199806/980618b.html
> Hope this answers your question?
> Jon
>
>
>
>
> ___
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>

No. I asked who *you* thought was qualified.

There are 7 Latinas serving in the current Congress:

Ileana Ros-Lehtinen R-Fla
Lucille Roybal-Allard D-Calif
Nydia Velazquez D-NY
Loretta Sanchez D- Calif (sister of Linda Sanchez, D-Calif)
Grace Napolitano D-Calif
Hilda Solis D-Calif
Linda Sanchez D-Calif (sister of Loretta Sanchez, D-Calif)

They all serve in the House of Representatives. Ros-Lehtinen is ineligible
to serve as VP since she was born in Cuba. Nydia Velazquez was born in
Puerto Rico, however since Puerto Ricans born on the island are US citizens
by birth, she is eligible. All the rest were born on the mainland US.

Kimberly Casiano runs the largest publisher of Hispanic periodicals and
magazines in the US and serves as a director for Ford and Mutual of America.

Ana Escobedo Cabral is the current Treasurer of the United States. Linda
Chavez has held high positions in Republican administrations; she ran
against Barbara Mikulski for the Senate and lost. Quite a few Latinas serve
at the local and state levels. Of elected Latinas, Ileana Ros-Lehtinen
probably has the greater national profile, but she is not eligible to serve
as VP.

As I have said before, my vote is given to the candidate who most closely
matches my values. Ethnic pride aside, I would not vote for a candidate
simply because she was a Latina, just as I would not vote for a candidate
because he or she is a US Navy veteran, Roman Catholic, attended Jesuit high
school, played stickball, grew up in Harlem or listens to Tito Puente.

john
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Re: Racial, sexual and religious bigotry

[John Garcia]

, Oct 22, 2008 at 3:42 PM, Jon Louis Mann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > > I still would have preferred that Obama
> > > picked a qualified Hispanic woman for his VP.
> Jon
>
> > Like, say, J-Lo?
> > Alberto Monteiro
>
> She would certainly be preferable to Palin!~)
> Seriously, there are many eligible Hispanic women who are qualified to
> break the glass ceiling of vice presidential politics for gender balance, as
> well as minority inclusion.
> Hispanics are fast becoming a majority in many parts of America, so it is
> only right that they receive proportionate representation in government at
> the highest levels.
> In my lifetime alone, enormous progress has been made, partly because of
> affirmative action.
> Jon
>
>
>
> ___
> http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
>

I'll bite...
Would you care to name a few Latinas that you feel would be qualified?

john
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Re: Secretary of Defense

[John Garcia]

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 4:21 PM, Lance A. Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> Jon Louis Mann wrote:
> > I would prefer Wesley Clark as Sec'y of Defense and give Colin Powell a
> chance to redeem himself as Sec'y of State.
>
> Clark would be a good choice for Sec. of Defense as well.  I'm not sure
> I'd put Powell back in at State.  Seems like asking a bit much of the
> world's nations to accept him in that role again after his last go-round
> at it.
>
> --[Lance]
>
> --
>  GPG Fingerprint: 409B A409 A38D 92BF 15D9 6EEE 9A82 F2AC 69AC 07B9
>  CACert.org Assurer
> ___
> http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
>

I actually like the job that Gates has been doing. He's held senior brass
accountable, forcing resignations, and placing emphasis on supporting the
grunts on the line. He's the best appointment Bush has made in 8 years.

john
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Re: Not Buying It

[John Garcia]

2008/9/25 Julia Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

>
>
> On Thu, 25 Sep 2008, Alberto Monteiro wrote:
>
>
>> Jon Louis Mann wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> We need another FDR to
>>> start up some a new CCC, WWW etc.
>>>
>>>  What are those AFTs? CCC is Brazil was "Comando de Caça aos Comunistas"
>> (hint: Caça = Hunt, the other words are the same in English). And
>> WWW sounds terribly like WWIII... I hope I don't preach the same
>> solution to 29, meaning a WW? (OTOH, it might not be so bad... Billions
>> dead in the first minutes, and let the survivors think how to
>> manage the remains of the scorched Earth).
>>
>
> CCC = Civilian Conservation Corps
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_Conservation_Corps
>
> WWW?  Dunno.  Did Jon mean WPA?  That would be Works Progress
> Administration.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Works_Progress_Administration
>
> The umbrella label for the whole thing was the New Deal.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_deal if you want to read more about
> various "alphabet soup" programs
>
>Julia
>
> ___
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>
>
Maybe he meant IWW, International Workers of the World aka "Wobblies". OTOH,
maybe he meant
Wicked Witch of the West or Weasley's Wizard Wheezes

john
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Re: Science and Ideals.

[John Garcia]

On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 1:54 AM, Dave Land <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Sep 24, 2008, at 11:26 AM, John Williams wrote:
>
> > Nick Arnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >> Golly, that sounds familiar.  Echoes of the Iraq war, anyone?
> >
> > Those politicians are slippery.
>
> And how!
>
> What do others think about two bits of news from the American
> election this week:
>
> 1) The two campaigns agreed to a "simplified" format for the debate
> between the VP candidates, ostensibly so that Ms. Palin can "have
> opportunities to present Mr. McCain's positions, rather than spending
> time talking about her experience or playing defense.", according to
> McCain campaign advisors.
>
> 2) McCain suggested that both candidates "suspend" their campaigns,
> including the planned debate Friday; Obama declined, saying "I think
> that it is going to be part of the president's job to deal with more
> than one thing at once."
>
> Dave
>
> ___
> http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
>

I hadn't heard about the VP debate, but it seems to me that Palin was picked
to bolster McCain's
appeal to social conservatives and the religious right, rather than for her
experience, so this makes
perfect sense to the McCain campaign. I can only speculate, but the Obama
campaign may have
agreed to this format because if Biden wipes the floor with her in a
traditional VP debate (as he probably
would), he runs the risk of appearing to be bullying, and don't think that
her handlers wouldn't cry  Sexist
and Unfair in a minute. OTOH, according to conventional wisdom, no one votes
for the Vice President, and
this may all be an entertaining sideshow.

This is the *perfect* time for campaigning and debating, and hopefully (but
probably not) meaningful discussion of
the issues facing us, including the economy. Both McCain and Obama need to
tell us why he should be President
instead of why the other should not.

On a different tack, some of us who are of a particular age, will remember
another controversial President associated
with an unpopular war, floundering economy, etc. So, what do you all think?
Nixon vs Bush (the son). Which was worse?

john
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Re: The proper function of government?

[John Garcia]

On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 2:44 PM, David Hobby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
>
> > So what is the proper function of government?
> > For example, if my neighbor to the south wants to build
> > a wall that blocks my sunshine, should zoning laws be able
> > to stop her?
>
>---David
>
> ___
> http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
>

Or (for those of us in Manhattan) should there be a law, zoning or other
type, that
prevents Donald Trump or some other crazed real-estate magnate from
constructing
a building that is so tall, it robs nearby buildings of sunlight?

Or, should the federal government outsource vital national security
functions to the
private sector? If so, who is ultimately responsible for the private
company's actions?
The company or the government?

Or, should government sell off pieces of infrastructure to private,
for-profit companies
(I paid taxes to build that bridge; where's my cut?)

Should the proper function of government be to do those things that the
market will not
or can not do?

john
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PBS NewsHour report on bailout

[John Garcia]

I thought that some might find this transcript interesting.
Paul Krugman and Allan Meltzer actually agree on something!

http://tinyurl.com/4s9tgj

john
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Re: Welfare fraud

[John Garcia]

On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Jon Louis Mann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> > > > You gotta be f**king kidding me!
> > What are you doing?
> > > > Channeling Reagan?
> > > > john
>
> > > just being sardonic, john.  when faced with a choice
> > between working at
> > > mcdonald's and collecting welfare, one way out for
> > many women who don't have
> > > the incentive or aptitude to earn a living wage, is to
> > have one kid after
> > > another, so they can stay on welfare.  that's how
> > the system works, and the
> > > ones who scream the most about infanticide are the
> > very ones who complain
> > > about welfare...
> > > jon
>
> > Sounds like Ronnie's "Welfare Queen" bs.
> > john
>
> it certainly does, especially coming from a socialist.  i am not being
> politically correct, john, but the problem, is the system does not work, not
> because of fraud, but because most of the revenues for entitlements are
> absorbed by the bureacracy.  i hold the democrats accountable for that.  it
> is also true that a few people receiving entitlements ARE working the
> system.  to deny that fact is fueling republican discontent, and giving them
> ammunition to scrap the system altogether.
> jon
>
>
>
> ___
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>

there could be zero (0) fraud cases and Republicans would still be against
any form of personal welfare (they are divided on corporate welfare) because
personal welfare is against their political philosophy.

john
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Re: ZPG

[John Garcia]

On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 2:11 PM, Jon Louis Mann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

>
> > > in this country, women can still have as many
> > offspring as they can bear.
> > >  welfare mommies actually profit from having more.
> > > jon
>
> > You gotta be f**king kidding me! What are you doing?
> > Channeling Reagan?
> > john
>
> just being sardonic, john.  when faced with a choice between working at
> mcdonald's and collecting welfare, one way out for many women who don't have
> the incentive or aptitude to earn a living wage, is to have one kid after
> another, so they can stay on welfare.  that's how the system works, and the
> ones who scream the most about infanticide are the very ones who complain
> about welfare...
> jon
>
>
>
> ___
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>

Sounds like Ronnie's "Welfare Queen" bs.

john
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Re: ZPG

[John Garcia]

On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 11:18 PM, Jon Louis Mann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> > Probably less after she's already conceived than if
> > she's asking
> > friends/acquaintances for advice before doing so.  After
> > conception,
> > it's kind of hard to change course in most cases.
>
> in this country, women can still have as many offspring as they can bear.
>  welfare mommies actually profit from having more.
> jon
>
>
>
> ___
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>

You gotta be f**king kidding me! What are you doing? Channeling Reagan?

john
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Re: Wall Street Turmoil

[John Garcia]

On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 8:11 AM, Ronn! Blankenship <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> At 06:22 PM Monday 9/15/2008, John Garcia wrote:
> >I think that these song lyrics from 1931 sum up how I feel right now:
> >
> >"Once I built a railroad
> >I made it run
> >Made it race against time.
> >Once I built a railroad
> >Now it's done
> >Brother, can you spare a dime?
> >Once I built a tower up to the sun
> >Brick and rivet and lime.
> >Once I built a tower,
> >Now it's done.
> >Brother, can you spare a dime?" -- Brother Can You Spare A Dime lyrics by
> >Yip Harney, music by Jay Gorney
> >
> >where's FDR when we need him maru
>
>
> Who needs him when we have color?
>
> <
> http://www.jumbojoke.com/homeland_security_alerts_1711.html?awt_l=HgQDx&awt_m=1d23Vrtrq7Onkr
> >
>
>
> . . . ronn!  :)
>
>
>
> ___
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>

oh, this is just too good! thanks!

john
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Re: Free Market

[John Garcia]

On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 1:06 PM, Dave Land <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Sep 12, 2008, at 4:09 AM, Alberto Monteiro wrote:
>
> > Charlie Bell wrote:
> >>
> >> Oh, I thought it was just what tax is - it's giving up some of your
> >> wealth to pay for roads, schools, infrastructure, basic health needs
> >> and basic support for society.
> >>
> > In theory. In practice, tax is used to finance the tax-collecting
> > nomenklatura and the parasites that infest the congress.
>
> Adjusting for the natural greed and malfeasance of human beings (which
> must always be taken into account, because they've always been a
> factor), taxes are the dues we pay for being part of a society.
> They're the bit that each of us chips in to provide the things that
> none of us could possibly afford in private.
>
> Dave
>
> ___
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>

"Taxes are the price we pay for civilization." -- Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.
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R.A.H.'s answer to fan mail?

[John Garcia]

According to Kevin Kelly, Heinlein used a form letter to answer fan mail.
Kelly reproduces it here:
http://kk.org/ct2/2008/09/heinleins-fan-mail-solution.php

As you read the answers, try to imagine the questions.

AMF Maru
john
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Sept Scientific American

[John Garcia]

September's issue of Scientific American is devoted to technology and
privacy.
Himself is cited in the Editor's note.

There is also an item that I found very interesting. It seems that in 2006
two
Swiss primate researchers attempted to renew their research licenses through
the local veterinary office, which is required every three years. Daniel
Kiper wanted to
look at how the brain changes when learning tasks, research that may help
stroke victims. He planned to implant electrodes and regulate water intake.
Kevan Martin wanted to study the macaque neocortex which carries out
functions
such as spatial reasoning and conscious thought. This researcher relied on
injecting tracers in the primates and later euthanizing them.

An advisory board, the Committee on Animal Experiments protested that the
studies'
expected benefits were not sufficient to justify the burden on the animals.
They appealed
to the Swiss Health Department who forced the researchers to halt their
experiments.

Hans Scherberger who uses techniques similar to Kiper, studies how the brain
controls hand
movements. His research was approved with *no* protest. The reasoning was
that Scherberger's
research had a very clear application for humans. Kiper and Martin's
experiments "were not concrete
and would take a long time to benefit society."

I won't go on (read the article for yourselves), but I wonder what does this
mean for basic research.
Will we see the day when research involving animals will be permitted only
when there is a direct
and immediate application for humans?

What about basic research in other fields? Securing funding for basic
research is always chancy.
Will funding be contingent on direct applications for humans?
And if so, is serendipity doomed?

inquiring minds maru
john
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Re: Enough!

[John Garcia]

On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 1:19 AM, Doug Pensinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Did anyone catch The Speech?  I was inspired and I think against all odds
> that he has a chance.  What a watershed moment in the history of humanity
> that would be.
>
> Doug
> ___
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>


I saw the speech. I especially liked the riff on "Ownership Society...You're
on your own"

I certainly think that he has a chance considering the dissatisfaction in
the country today
and the fact that he beat (what was at the start of the Dem primary
campaign) the powerful
juggernaut that was the Clinton machine.

now i *have* seen everything!

john
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Re: Sore losers

[John Garcia]

On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 12:49 PM, William T Goodall
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

>
> On 27 Aug 2008, at 16:35, Nick Arnett wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 5:36 PM, William T Goodall <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >wrote:
> >
> >> So why are the Americans counting total medals instead of golds for
> >> the olympics?
> >
> >
> > Who is doing this counting?  I just searched Google News and what I
> > see are
> > headlines like "US pleased with Olympic medal count."  I really
> > couldn't
> > find any of the sort of complaining you allege.
>
>
>  From the Houston Chronicle
>
> http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5963934.html
>
> "BEIJING — As China celebrated the end of the 2008 Beijing Olympics by
> gazing upon its pile of gold medals and dipping into Western culture
> to proclaim, "We're No. 1," the United States contemplated the glories
> of the socialist collective — and came up with the same answer.
> Taking individual event finals into account, the host nation was the
> runaway leader in gold medals, with 51 to 36 for the United States.
> But the United States led in total medals with 110 to 100 for China,
> 72 for Russia and 47 for Great Britain, host of the 2012 London Games.
> On top of that, as the country that introduced and perfected the
> concept of sabermetrical parsing, the U.S. came up with a way to
> finish on top in gold medals.
>
> Counting its dominance in team sports in the final week of the Games,
> "More individual U.S. athletes will carry home gold medals around
> their neck than any other nation, if you want to count it that way,"
> said Jim Scherr, U.S. Olympic Committee CEO.
> By that measure, the Americans routed the home team. Computing gold
> medals presented to each athlete on teams in men's and women's
> basketball, men's volleyball, women's rowing, beach volleyball and
> relay teams in track and swimming, among others, the U.S. claimed 125
> total golds to 74 for China. In total medals awarded, the United
> States scored 315 to 186 for China."
>
> >
> >
> >
> >> And why the innuendo about Usain Bolt "as long as he's
> >> clean"?
> >
> >
> > I searched on that phrase and I got nothing.  The only articles I
> > find about
> > this are some concerns that Jamaica only started a national drug-
> > testing
> > program after the start of the Olympics.  Who's supposedly saying
> > this?  The
> > news reports I'm reading say that the Jamaican team was tested
> > repeatedly
> > during the games.
> >
> > In short, cite please.
> >
>  From the New York Times
>
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/22/sports/olympics/22longman.html?_r=1&em&oref=slogin
>
> "As Records Fall, Suspicions of Doping Linger
>
> [...]
> I want to believe that talent and hard work and determination are not
> fossil fuels, that a human, unlike a car, does not need chemical
> additives to run at peak efficiency.
>
> Bolt is likable, as playful as he is fast. His speed is breathtaking.
>
> He is the first man to win the Olympic 100 and 200 meters since Carl
> Lewis in 1984, the first to set world records in both events at the
> same Summer Games.
>
> But when I want to fully believe, I feel a twinge of skepticism. It
> nags, like a strained hamstring."
>
> Plenty more in that vein in the American press.
>
> Cite Maru
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> William T Goodall
> Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
> Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/
>
> "You are coming to a sad realization. Cancel or Allow?"
>
>
> ___
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>

Jere Longman's article is clearly an opinion piece. My impression from
reading the article is that Longman is not complaining that a non-American
won the gold in the 200 meters, but is a comment on doping in sports.
Here is a link to the NYT article written when Bolt won the gold medal. It
is in a different vein.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/21/sports/olympics/21bolt.html

john
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Re: McCain Positions

[John Garcia]

On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Julia Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, 26 Aug 2008, Ronn! Blankenship wrote:
>
> > At 05:16 PM Monday 8/25/2008, Olin Elliott wrote:
> >> (I'm 45, born the same week Kennedy was shot)
> >
> > ObSF:
> >
> > And the week _Doctor Who_ premiered . . .
>
> And the week C. S. Lewis died.  Heck, he died on the *day* Kennedy was
> shot.
>
>Julia
>
> ___
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>

Aldous Huxley
and don't forget JD Tippit

john (who 45 years later still remembers where he was when he heard the
news)
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Re: Br¡n: What's in the works?

[John Garcia]

On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 6:02 AM, Ronn! Blankenship <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> At 12:57 PM Monday 8/25/2008, John Garcia wrote:
> >On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Chris Frandsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Remember Remember 4 November!
> >
> >
> >I do remember Jimmy Carter,
>
>
>
> Including his response to what happened on his watch on that date?
>
>
> . . . ronn!  :)
>
>
>
> ___
> http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
>

Which response? The immediate or six months later?

BTW, I was standing on the flight deck of USS Eisenhower on 11/4/79.

john
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Re: Brin: What's in the works?

[John Garcia]

On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 5:15 PM, Chris Frandsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Thanks for the link, John.
> Chris
>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > I do remember Jimmy Carter, even voted for him in 1976 and 1980. Also
> > watched what
> > Andrew Bacevich had to say on Bill Moyers (Brian Lehrer on WNYC also
> > interviewed
> > him. You can download it here:
> > http://www.wnyc.org/shows/bl/episodes/2008/08/20)
> >
> > Carter was correct when he said that we were living beyond our
> > means. Too
> > bad we
> > didn't want to hear it.
> >
> > john
> > ___
> > http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
>
> ___
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>

You're welcome. WNYC is New York City's public radio station. They have some
pretty good shows.

john
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Re: Brin: What's in the works?

[John Garcia]

On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 3:46 PM, Alberto Monteiro
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

>
> David Brin wrote:
> >
> >  February '77 National Lampoon --"Grand Fifth Term
> > Inaugural Issue: JFK's First 6,000 Days" which
> > featured a silver-haired JFK on the cover. The whole
> > issue was a big "what if..." about how things might
> > have turned out had the assassin's bullet missed JFK
> > and hit Jackie instead. A very good issue--neatly
> > deflates the Kennedy myth: US steers clear of Vietnam,
> > but ends up in Northern Ireland instead.
> >
> In Heinlein's "The Number of the Beast", the succession
> of USA presidents in "Timeline 2" is Woodrow Wilson,
> Harding, Coolidge, Hoover, Roosevelt, Truman, Eisenhower,
> Kennedy, Kennedy, Kennedy, Kennedy, Kennedy, Kennedy, ...,
> Neemiah Scudder Interregnum.
>
> I guess that he gave two 4-year mandates to each of the
> three brothers (is it legal to have a brother succeed
> another one in the USA?), which would make Ted Kennedy to
> leave office in 1984 - or earlier, in the case of impeachment.
>
> Or maybe each Kennedy above is a different family member, which
> would place Kennedy VI being elected in... hmmm... 1960 + 5 x 8...
> 2000 (!).
>
> It's a pity that he abandoned this idea in later books,
> because in "To Sail Beyond the Sunset" the presidents
> are Roosevelt, Alvin Barkley (who?), and Patton (who dies
> in 1961).
>
> Alberto Monteiro
>
>
> ___
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>

Alvin Barkley was Harry Truman's Vice President.

john
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Re: McCain Positions

[John Garcia]

On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 2:50 PM, Olin Elliott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> >On the face of it, none of this sounds horrendous. As with any promise,
> the
> >real deal is whether or not he can or will deliver. YMMV. It's all just a
> >matter of trust.
>
>
> Exactly.  And even if I did trust John McCain personally (which I don't), I
> wouldn't trust the Republican machinery that comes with him.  Where does it
> say in there that he's gong to take the EPA and other regulatory agencies
> out of the hands of the people they're supposed to be regulating?  And where
> does it say he's going to disavow the medieval world view of the
> Fundamentalist leaders he's been cozying up to?
>
>
>
>
> 
>

My point is that candidates can (and have) promised anything and everything,
usually coached in careful language. We trust the candidate that we favor to
fulfill those promises. When they do not, they have damaged our trust in
them.

Personally, I would prefer to see the 2000 McCain running, but he isn't.
That guy went down in flames eight years ago.
Also, I don't believe that the Republicans have a vision for the USA that is
consistent with my values. The Democrats do have a vision that is more
consistent with my values, but not 100%.

john
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McCain Positions

[John Garcia]

While I wait for a vendor to call me, I thought I'd post some McCain
campaign
stuff about science and the internet, taken from his website. What do you
all think?

*John McCain Would Place A Priority On Science And Technology
Experience.*As President, John McCain will be committed to bringing
talented men and
women of science into the federal government. He will strive to ensure that
Administration appointees across the government have adequate experience and
understanding of science, technology and innovation in order to better serve
the American people.

*John McCain Will Preserve Consumer Freedoms. *John McCain will focus on
policies that leave consumers free to access the content they choose; free
to use the applications and services they choose; free to attach devices
they choose, if they do not harm the network; and free to chose among
broadband service providers.

*John McCain Would Ensure That The Federal Government Led By
Example.*Government can advance Americans' access to high speed
Internet services by
using it to better serve the people. Government services should be available
online and government can better serve the American people by operating more
efficiently through the use of technology, including videoconferencing and
collaborative networks. For over a decade, John McCain has supported placing
more government information online for the benefit of all of the American
people. Since 2001, he has called for an Office of Electronic Government to
set a strategic vision for implementation of electronic government

*John McCain Would Support The Federal Government As An Innovator.* John
McCain as president would push for a renewed emphasis on innovation through
Cooperative Research and Development Agreements (CRADAs) where industry and
government enter into public/private projects, sharing in the cost,
benefiting from solving real problems, accelerating the application of
technology in the government. This way the government is a leader of the
technology revolution and not simply a beneficiary.

On the face of it, none of this sounds horrendous. As with any promise, the
real deal is whether or not he can or will deliver. YMMV. It's all just a
matter of trust.

john
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Re: Brin: What's in the works?

[John Garcia]

On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Chris Frandsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> John, if you look to at what Jimmy Carter tried to tell us before his
> last failed election run against Reagan and compare it to where we are
> today you might reconsider his position in history.
>
> A friend Andrew Bacevich addresses some of this in his new book, The
> Limits of Power.(shameless plug for Skip)
> You might want to watch the discussion on Bill Moyer's Journal
> http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/08152008/watch.html
>
> I totally agree with Olin's comments.  I am not sure how Obama will
> support the scientific community other than getting out of the
> business of trying to make scientific reports match political agendas.
> I suspect his economic social and foreign policy initiatives to get us
> back on track will force science budgets to the back burner.
>
> Chris Frandsen
> Remember Remember 4 November!
>
> 


I do remember Jimmy Carter, even voted for him in 1976 and 1980. Also
watched what
Andrew Bacevich had to say on Bill Moyers (Brian Lehrer on WNYC also
interviewed
him. You can download it here:
http://www.wnyc.org/shows/bl/episodes/2008/08/20)

Carter was correct when he said that we were living beyond our means. Too
bad we
didn't want to hear it.

john
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Re: Brin: What's in the works?

[John Garcia]

On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 10:52 AM, Olin Elliott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > My choice for President depends on which candidate I think
> > will
> > address all the issues facing the USA consistent with my values, not
> > whether
> > or not he has a cool Facebook page.
>
> Its not whether or not he has a cool Facebbook page -- its whether he can
> understand the massive changes in socieity being wrought by computers and
> the internet, whether he is going to be a President who honors science and
> tries to learn from it, rather than supressing it out of ideologicial and
> religious prejudice like the one we have now, whether he is equipped to deal
> with a world bound ever tighter by communicantions, by enemies who have
> mastered the idea of loose networks bound by technology and of spreading
> their world view via the web.  Whether he looks outward toward the future
> rather than backwards, and whether he can address, for instance, the kinds
> of issues of privacy, freedom and the impact of technology that Dr. Brin
> addresses.  That's why its important that he know how to use a computer.
>  Comparing it to a "cool facebook page" is the kind of trivial analysis the
> media usually does.
>
> Olin
>  - Original Message -
>  From: William T Goodall
>  To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion
>  Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 6:49 AM
>  Subject: Re: Brin: What's in the works?
>
>
> 


Does *anyone* really understand those changes?

And what level of computer use is acceptable? Novice? Expert? Should he at
least know where the power button is?

Jimmy Carter was trained as an engineer on nuclear submarines. Didn't help
him at Three Mile Island.

john
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Re: Brin: What's in the works?

[John Garcia]

On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 8:54 PM, William T Goodall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

>
> On 24 Aug 2008, at 22:42, Alberto Vieira Ferreira Monteiro wrote:
>
> > David Brin wrote:
> >>
> >> But of course I am distracted by the elections, hoping
> >> we'll at last save America and civilization from a
> >> criminal gang.  (What we're seeing -- including the
> >> outright and direct theft of half a trillion dollars
> >> -- goes far beyond regular issues of mere left or
> >> right.)
> >>
> > Now I'm curious - what's so wrong about McCain (beyond his
> > killing of McAbel)?
> >
> > Alberto Monteiro
>
>
> He doesn't know how to use a computer, he doesn't know how many houses
> he owns and he seems to have too many senior moments for someone in
> charge of the big red button?
>
> And that's without anything to do with his policies.
>
> Ooh! Shiny  Maru
>
>
> --
> William T Goodall
> Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
> Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/
>
> It was only after ordering the melon balls that Rick discovered he was
> at a drive through plastic surgery.
>
>
McCain doesn't know how to use a computer. So? What does that have to do
with
being President?  My choice for President depends on which candidate I think
will
address all the issues facing the USA consistent with my values, not whether
or not he has a cool Facebook page.

john -- about to vote in my 9th Presidential election
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Re: World Trade

[John Garcia]

On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 9:05 PM, William T Goodall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

>
> On 24 Aug 2008, at 21:19, Dan M wrote:
>
> > If the land produces enough food for the people in a country to live
> > on,
> > then the problem of actual starvation goes down.  Zimbabwe is a good
> > example
> > of this: it was a food exporter before governments took the farms
> > away from
> > experienced farmers and handed it to cronies who had no idea of how to
> > farmcausing the risk of mass starvation.
> >
> > Now, I know that the experienced farmers are white, and the cronies
> > are
> > black, and whites owning most of the land in a majority black
> > country is a
> > problem.  But my daughter Neli and I came up with a workable plan to
> > correct
> > this gradually in just a few minutes.
> >
> > All of the white owned farms have black workers.  One could provide
> > tax
> > incentives/disincentives for the farmers to form corporations in
> > which their
> > workers earn shares in the corporation with work/time.  I've seen
> > that in
> > small US companies, and it's worked well.  No one would be forced to
> > do
> > anything at gunpoint, experienced people would always run the farms
> > as well
> > as possible, with profits for all when the farms are most productive.
>
>
> Why should the white farmers who were born in Zimbabwe from several
> generations of people born in Zimbabwe have their property and
> livelihoods confiscated either directly or through taxation just
> because they are white? That's racism isn't it?
>
> Saucy Maru
> --
> William T Goodall
> Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
> Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/
>
> "Two years from now, spam will be solved." - Bill Gates, 2004
>
>
> ___
> http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
>

Maybe. Might also be an attempt to redistribute wealth. It's clear to me
that whatever else
is going on, those currently on top are determined to exact some payback
from those who
once ran that country.

the same folks you meet on the way up, are the same you meet on the way down

john
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Re: Greg Bear

[John Garcia]

On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 5:12 PM, Jon Louis Mann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> > Has anyone read Greg Bear's thriller Quantico?
> > I enjoyed it. Bear always gives me some food for thought.
> > John
>
> If you liked that you should read "Blood Music"
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_Music
> Jon
>
>
>
> ___
> http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
>

Thanks. It'll go on the list (which is ever expanding and never completed)

john
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Re: Greg Bear's Quantico

[John Garcia]

On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 7:17 PM, Nick Arnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 9:17 AM, John Garcia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Has anyone read Greg Bear's thriller Quantico?
>
>
> Not yet, myself.
>
> Is it out in paperback?  If so, that'll be worth a trip to the bookstore...
>
> Nick
> ___
> http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
>

It is. I picked it up a couple of months ago.

john
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Re: Greg Bear's Quantico

[John Garcia]

On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 9:00 PM, William T Goodall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

>
> On 20 Aug 2008, at 17:17, John Garcia wrote:
>
> > Has anyone read Greg Bear's thriller Quantico?
> >
> > I enjoyed it. Bear always gives me some food for thought.
>
> Would you have read it if you didn't know Bear from his SF? Thrillers
> are a much more lucrative genre than SF so it's not surprising SF
> writers sometimes have a try at it (Gregory Benford's _Artifact_ was
> another) but I think they usually have too much SF for the thriller
> crowd and not enough for the SF crowd.
>
> Neither fish nor fowl Maru
>
>
> --
> William T Goodall
> Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
> Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/
>
> "There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant
> market share. No chance" - Steve Ballmer
>
>
> ___
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>

It's most likely that I would have read it even if I had not know Bear from
his other writings. I browse bookstores looking for something to read and
based on past purchases, I would have picked this up.

book junkie maru
john
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Greg Bear's Quantico

[John Garcia]

Has anyone read Greg Bear's thriller Quantico?

I enjoyed it. Bear always gives me some food for thought.
I've included this blurb from his web site on the book.

Text from Back Cover:

>From multiple award winning and New York Times–bestselling author Greg Bear
comes a near-future thriller that pits young FBI agents against a brilliant
homegrown terrorist. It's the second decade of the Twenty-First Century, and
terrorism has escalated almost beyond control. The Dome of the Rock in
Jerusalem has been blown to bits by extremists, and, in retaliation,
thousands have died in another major attack on the United States. New
weapons are being spawned in remote basement labs, and no one feels safe.

In North america, the FBI uses cutting edge technology to thwart domestic
terrorists. Sat-linked engine blockers stop drug-traffickers cold. Devices
the size of Magic Markers test for biohazards on the spot. 3-D projectors
reconstruct crime scenes from hours-old evidence, and sophisticated bomb
suits protect against all but the most savage forces. Despite all this, the
War on Terror has reached a deadly stalemate.

Now the FBI has been dispatched to deal with a new menace. A plague targeted
to ethnic groups— Jews or Muslims or both—has the potential to wipe out
entire populations. But the FBI itself is under political assault. There's a
good chance agents William Griffin, Fouad Al-Husam, and Jane Rowland will be
part of the last class at Quantico. As the young agents hunt a brilliant
homegrown terrorist, they join forces with veteran bio-terror expert rebecca
rose. But the plot they uncover—and the man they chase—prove to be far more
complex than anyone expects.

summer reading maru

john
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Re: Genesis 1:28

[John Garcia]

On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 5:03 PM, Bruce Bostwick
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> On Jul 26, 2008, at 2:58 PM, Doug Pensinger wrote:
>
> > It's not just a numbers game.  If you have the opportunity to bring
> > a child
> > into the world that has a reasonable chance to make a positive
> > contribution,
> > there are few arguments not to do so.  The world doesn't just need
> > fewer
> > people; it needs more people that can make a positive contribution
> > and fewer
> > whose lives will ultimately be fruitless (not to mention miserable).
>
> That's another matter entirely than restricting childbirth.  That's a
> value distinction as to who is more or less entitled to reproduce.
>
> And on that, I will agree with you, that some parents are probably
> better candidates to reproduce the species than others.  But, as a
> member of the species yourself, are you prepared for the
> responsibility of making that choice for every would-be parent on
> earth?  And would you be prepared to defend your decisions against the
> inevitable challenges and explain why you made the decision the way
> you did in every case?  (It's a safe bet that any decision along those
> lines will be challenged, no matter what you do, either by the parents
> themselves if you say no to them, or by other parents if you say yes
> and they're not satisfied that you made a fair decision.)
>
> There's merit to granting birth-privileges to the best and the
> brightest, in the most basic analysis.  It's the execution of the
> concept where the very devil is in the details.  And it ultimately
> comes down to trusting someone to make a fair decision .. which is
> itself a very non-trivial problem.
>
> "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a
> little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider
> price only are this man's lawful prey." -- John Ruskin
>
>
> ___
> http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
>

Everytime I hear the phrase "best and the brightest" I think of David
Halberstram and Vietnam

john
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Solar Power article

[John Garcia]

An OpEd in yesterday's NY Times addresses Solar Power Satellites.

http://tiny.cc/dgbkI

john
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Re: Chicken and Egg

[John Garcia]

On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:13 AM, Charlie Bell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

>
> On 18/07/2008, at 12:07 AM, John Garcia wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 9:57 AM, Lance A. Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >
> > I've worked in IT in the private, public and educational sectors and
> > I was
> > never more frustrated than when I worked at a university.
>
> Was that 'cause of the computers, or all the cute students wandering
> about? ;-)
>
> (You don't actually have to answer, especially if it may incriminate
> you...)
>
> C.
> ___
> http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
>

It was a pleasure to see humankind in all its glorious diversity and plumage
;-)
Students were great to support; sure there was a small minority who were
very annoying, but most of them were friendly and appreciative.
Administrators, department chairs and staff were another story. The
situation was reversed; the majority were imperious, arrogant and treated me
and my compadres like we were the scum that scum wipe off the soles of their
shoes. There were some who treated us like human beings, but that was the
minority.

john
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Re: Chicken and Egg

[John Garcia]

On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:07 AM, Charlie Bell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

>
> On 17/07/2008, at 11:57 PM, Lance A. Brown wrote:
>
> > Charlie Bell said the following on 7/17/2008 3:32 AM:
> >> Welcome to my world. IT Support at a law firm at the mo... *banging
> >> head on desk* I love my job, I love my workplace, but bloody hell it
> >> can be frustrating at times!
> >
> > I feel your pain, brother. :-)  I'm the sole in-department sysadmin
> > for
> > the Dept. of Statistical Science at Duke University.  I have a flat
> > spot
> > on my forehead just like yours.
>
> I actually had my very first "My screen's blank and when I move the
> mouse nothing happens" "Um, is your computer actually turned on?"
> moment two days ago.
>
> Charlie.
> ___
> http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
>

When I first started, eons ago, I once had a call from a user who had lost a
file on a 5.25 floppy disk (that tells you how long ago it was.) I asked him
to send me the disk in interoffice mail (he was at a remote office) and I
would run Norton Utilities (before Symantec bought and ruined it). A day or
two later, I received it in the mail with a memo stapled to it right on the
disk. That was the end of that.

john
i got a million of them maru
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Re: Chicken and Egg

[John Garcia]

On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 9:57 AM, Lance A. Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Charlie Bell said the following on 7/17/2008 3:32 AM:
> > Welcome to my world. IT Support at a law firm at the mo... *banging
> > head on desk* I love my job, I love my workplace, but bloody hell it
> > can be frustrating at times!
>
> I feel your pain, brother. :-)  I'm the sole in-department sysadmin for
> the Dept. of Statistical Science at Duke University.  I have a flat spot
> on my forehead just like yours.
>
> --[Lance]
> --
>  GPG Fingerprint: 409B A409 A38D 92BF 15D9 6EEE 9A82 F2AC 69AC 07B9
>  CACert.org Assurer
> ___
> http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
>

I've worked in IT in the private, public and educational sectors and I was
never more frustrated than when I worked at a university.

john
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Re: Computer Security

[John Garcia]

Sorry. My bad.

john

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 7:09 PM, Ronn! Blankenship <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> At 02:56 PM Wednesday 7/16/2008, John Garcia wrote:
> >There are other problems that have nothing to do with one O/S vs another.
> >
> >A "disgruntled" network engineer in San Francisco has apparently locked
> >everyone
> >out of the city's WAN.
> >
> >
> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/14/BAOS11P1M5.DTLf
> >
> >john
>
>
>
>
> "Item Not Found
>
> The article or page you requested was not found. If this link was
> sent to you via e-mail or posted on another website, it was probably
> incorrectly formatted."
>
>
>
> . . . ronn!  :)
>
>
>
> ___
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>
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Computer Security

[John Garcia]

There are other problems that have nothing to do with one O/S vs another.

A "disgruntled" network engineer in San Francisco has apparently locked
everyone
out of the city's WAN.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/14/BAOS11P1M5.DTLf

john
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Re: Chicken and Egg

[John Garcia]

On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 2:53 PM, William T Goodall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

>
> http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9109938&source=rss_news10
>
> "It takes less than five minutes for hackers to find and compromise an
> unpatched Windows PC after it's connected to the Internet, a security
> researcher said today.
>
> The SANS Institute's Internet Storm Center (ISC) currently estimates
> the "survival" time of an Internet-connected computer running Windows
> at around four minutes if it's not equipped with the latest Microsoft
> Corp.security patches, said Lorna Hutcheson, a researcher and analyst,
> in a post to the ISC blog."
>
> [...]
>
> "Another security researcher, however, said unpatched machines can
> last longer than just a few minutes before falling to attack. The
> German Honeypot Project, which sets vulnerable systems on the Internet
> to collect malware, estimates survival time in hours, not minutes.
> "Compared to the survival time from the Internet Storm Center which is
> currently below five minutes, we measure a higher survival time," said
> Thorsten Holz, a co-founder of the project and current a Ph.D. student
> at the University of Mannheim, in a post to the Honeypot Project's
> blog. The project's data estimates the average time between connecting
> to the Internet and compromise at under 1,000 minutes, or
> approximately 16 hours.
>
> "[But] the time is still short and you need to patch a system before
> taking it online," said Holz."
>
> ""While the survival time varies quite a bit across methods used,
> pretty much all agree that placing an unpatched Windows computer
> directly onto the Internet in the hope that it downloads the patches
> faster than it gets exploited are odds that you wouldn't bet on in
> Vegas," added Hutcheson of the ISC."
>
>
> So how do you download the patches if you can't put an unpatched
> Windows computer on the internet?
>
> --
> William T Goodall
> Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
> Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/
>
> "I wish developing great products was as easy as writing a check. If
> so, then Microsoft would have great products." - Steve Jobs
>
>
> ___
> http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
>

You download the patches using a different computer, put them on some
medium, and install them on the infected computer.

More interesting reading:

http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/07/14/29FE-mac-security_1.html

john
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Re: Apparently Iraq is the new Nigeria

[John Garcia]

Couldn't they come up with a better name than Joey Jones!?

john

On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 11:33 AM, Ronn! Blankenship <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Arrived in my inbox this morning:
>
>
>
> >Hello,
> >
> >I hope my email meets you well. I am in need of your assistance.
> > My name is  SGT JOEY JONES.I am a military attache with the
> > Engineering unit here in Ba'qubah Iraq for the united states, we
> > have about $20 Million American dollars here which is in our
> > possesion and we are ready to move out of the country.
> >
> >  My partners and I need a good partner someone we can trust to
> > actualize this venture.The money is from oil proceeds and legal.But
> > we are moving it through diplomatic means to your house directly or
> > a safe and secured location of your choice using diplomatic courier
> services.
> >
> >  But can we trust you? Once the funds get to you, you take your 30%
> > out and keep our own 70%. Your own part of this deal is to find a
> > safe place where the funds can be sent to. Our own part is sending it to
> you.
> >  If you are interested I will furnish you with more details.
> >
> >  Awaiting your urgent response
> >  SGT JOEY JONES.
> >IN GOD WE TRUST...
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: RIP Thomas M. Disch

[John Garcia]

Locus has an online obit
http://locusmag.com/2008/Disch_Obit.html

john

On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 10:22 AM, Julia Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Thomas M. Disch committed suicide in his apartment on July 4.
>
> Ellen Datlow's LiveJournal post:
> http://ellen-datlow.livejournal.com/93886.html
>
> Wikipedia article:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Disch
>
>
> If anyone sees any sort of official obituary on the web before I post
> anything about it, please post and/or let me know offlist.
>
>Julia
>
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Re: USA presidential race(ism)

[John Garcia]

On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 4:23 PM, Alberto Monteiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

>
> John Garcia quoted:
> >
> > Separate sections handle territories that the United States
> > has acquired over time,
> >
> Ouch! Too bad, the one I am thinking was born _outside_ the USA,
> but _almost_ in a area under USA occupation: just look at
> the maps here...
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied-administered_Austria
> ... and there...
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thal%2C_Austria
>
> Alberto Monteiro
>
> ___
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>

things might have been different if we had kept Austria after ww2 and not
given it back. otoh, what would we have done with it?

john
manifest destiny maru
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Re: USA presidential race(ism)

[John Garcia]

On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 3:56 PM, John Garcia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> afaik, that person would be just like McCain, considered to be a
> natural-born citizen.
>
> john
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Lance A. Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
>> John Garcia wrote:
>> > technically, the first seven Presidents were born in what was at the
>> time,
>> > colonies of the British Empire. the first President to be born after the
>> US
>> > became an independent country was Martin Van Buren.
>> > John McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone to a serving US Navy
>> officer
>> > and is considered a natural born citizen. Barack Obama was born in
>> Hawaii
>> > after it became a state. until the Constitution is changed to permit
>> > naturalized citizens to become President, no one born in Austria will be
>> > elected President.
>>
>> What about offspring of someone in the U.S. Foreign Service in Austria
>> working at the U.S. embassy, for example?
>>
>> --[Lance]
>>
>> --
>>  GPG Fingerprint: 409B A409 A38D 92BF 15D9 6EEE 9A82 F2AC 69AC 07B9
>>  CACert.org Assurer
>> ___
>> http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
>>
>
>

sorry for the top posting. i found a little more data from
www.usconstitution.net, to quote:

*Natural-born citizen*

Who is a natural-born citizen? Who, in other words, is a citizen at birth,
such that that person can be a President someday?

The 14th Amendment <http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_Am14.html> defines
citizenship this way: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States,
and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States
and of the State wherein they reside." But even this does not get specific
enough. As usual, the Constitution provides the framework for the law, but
it is the law that fills in the gaps.

Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in those gaps. Section
1401<http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode08/usc_sec_08_1401000-.html>defines
the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at
birth:"

   - Anyone born inside the United States
   - Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a
   citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the
   tribe
   - Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are
   citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
   - Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and
   lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S.
   national
   - Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived
   in the U.S. for at least one year
   - Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot
   be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
   - Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and
   as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S.
   for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in
   this time)
   - A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an
   alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.

Anyone falling into these categories is considered natural-born, and is
eligible to run for President or Vice President. These provisions allow the
children of military families to be considered natural-born, for example.

Separate sections handle territories that the United States has acquired
over time, such as Puerto Rico (8 USC
1402<http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode08/usc_sec_08_1402000-.html>),
Alaska (8 USC 
1404<http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode08/usc_sec_08_1404000-.html>),
Hawaii (8 USC 
1405<http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode08/usc_sec_08_1405000-.html>),
the U.S. Virgin Islands (8 USC
1406<http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode08/usc_sec_08_1406000-.html>),
and Guam (8 USC
1407<http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode08/usc_sec_08_1407000-.html>).
Each of these sections confer citizenship on persons living in these
territories as of a certain date, and usually confer natural-born status on
persons born in those territories after that date. For example, for Puerto
Rico, all persons born in Puerto Rico between April 11, 1899, and January
12, 1941, are automatically conferred citizenship as of the date the law was
signed by the President (June 27, 1952). Additionally, all persons born in
Puerto Rico on or after January 13, 1941, are natural-born citizens of the
United States. Note that because of when the law was passed, for some, the
na

Re: USA presidential race(ism)

[John Garcia]

afaik, that person would be just like McCain, considered to be a
natural-born citizen.

john

On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Lance A. Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> John Garcia wrote:
> > technically, the first seven Presidents were born in what was at the
> time,
> > colonies of the British Empire. the first President to be born after the
> US
> > became an independent country was Martin Van Buren.
> > John McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone to a serving US Navy
> officer
> > and is considered a natural born citizen. Barack Obama was born in Hawaii
> > after it became a state. until the Constitution is changed to permit
> > naturalized citizens to become President, no one born in Austria will be
> > elected President.
>
> What about offspring of someone in the U.S. Foreign Service in Austria
> working at the U.S. embassy, for example?
>
> --[Lance]
>
> --
>  GPG Fingerprint: 409B A409 A38D 92BF 15D9 6EEE 9A82 F2AC 69AC 07B9
>  CACert.org Assurer
> ___
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>
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Re: USA presidential race(ism)

[John Garcia]

On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 3:34 PM, Alberto Monteiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Both McCain and Obama were born outside of the continental USA
> (Panama and Hawaii, respectively). I don't know too much about
> USA history, but was there any POTUS that was not born in the
> continental USA?
>
> Maybe the next one will be born even outsider (like Austria...)
>
> Alberto Monteiro
>
> ___
> http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
>

technically, the first seven Presidents were born in what was at the time,
colonies of the British Empire. the first President to be born after the US
became an independent country was Martin Van Buren.
John McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone to a serving US Navy officer
and is considered a natural born citizen. Barack Obama was born in Hawaii
after it became a state. until the Constitution is changed to permit
naturalized citizens to become President, no one born in Austria will be
elected President.

john
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Re: USA Presidential Race

[John Garcia]

On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 10:11 AM, Kevin B. O'Brien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Ronn! Blankenship wrote:
> > At 09:04 AM Monday 6/9/2008, John Garcia wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 3:13 PM, Alberto Monteiro <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> John Garcia wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Now that it looks like it's McCain vs. Obama (listed in alphabetical
> >>>> order) I was wondering what you all think of this matchup. I'm
> especially
> >>>> interested in what
> >>>> our friends from outside of the USA think.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> Here in Brazil it seems that McCain will easily win, and that Obama
> >>> is like a fringe candidate, just there to "prove" that Dems aren't
> >>> racist bigots (and Hillary was there just to "prove" the non-sexism).
> >>>
> >>> Alberto Monteiro
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Hmmm.
> >> That's interesting. Last summer, someone asked me who I thought would be
> the
> >> next President and I replied
> >> "Some rich white guy". Now that I've heard Obama, I do think that he has
> a
> >> very good chance of being elected.
> >> Just how many voters will either vote for McCain or stay home is
> unknown.
> >> Not very many people are willing to give
> >> what may be seen as a "racist" answer to pollsters.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > Is the implication that voters must either vote for Obama or be
> > bigots, iow, the only reason anyone would not vote for Obama is
> > because he is black and they are racist?
> >
> >
> > . . . ronn!  :)
> >
> I don't know exactly what John Garcia intended, but I took this to be a
> reference to the well known Bradley Effect (sometimes called the Wilder
> Effect) in which the polls project a higher vote for black candidates
> than what ultimately materializes.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_effect
>
> I have trouble explaining this phenomenon without using racism, but
> others may be more ingenious than I. However, I think there is some
> evidence that it won't play such a big factor this year. At least in the
> primaries within the Democratic Party it looks to me like pre-election
> polls have been generally accurate within their margins of error.
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Kevin B. O'Brien TANSTAAFL
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Linux User #333216
>
> "Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are
> conservatives." -- John Stuart Mill
> ___
> http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
>

That is what I was referring to. Thanks for clearing that up.

john
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Re: USA Presidential Race

[John Garcia]

On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 9:12 PM, Ronn! Blankenship <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> At 07:00 PM Monday 6/9/2008, John Garcia wrote:
> >On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 6:54 PM, Ronn! Blankenship <
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > At 09:04 AM Monday 6/9/2008, John Garcia wrote:
> > > >On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 3:13 PM, Alberto Monteiro <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >
> > > >wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > John Garcia wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now that it looks like it's McCain vs. Obama (listed in
> alphabetical
> > > > > > order) I was wondering what you all think of this matchup. I'm
> > > especially
> > > > > > interested in what
> > > > > > our friends from outside of the USA think.
> > > > > >
> > > > > Here in Brazil it seems that McCain will easily win, and that Obama
> > > > > is like a fringe candidate, just there to "prove" that Dems aren't
> > > > > racist bigots (and Hillary was there just to "prove" the
> non-sexism).
> > > > >
> > > > > Alberto Monteiro
> > > > >
> > > > > ___
> > > > > http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >Hmmm.
> > > >That's interesting. Last summer, someone asked me who I thought would
> be
> > > the
> > > >next President and I replied
> > > >"Some rich white guy". Now that I've heard Obama, I do think that he
> has a
> > > >very good chance of being elected.
> > > >Just how many voters will either vote for McCain or stay home is
> unknown.
> > > >Not very many people are willing to give
> > > >what may be seen as a "racist" answer to pollsters.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Is the implication that voters must either vote for Obama or be
> > > bigots, iow, the only reason anyone would not vote for Obama is
> > > because he is black and they are racist?
> > >
> > >
> > > . . . ronn!  :)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
> > >
> >
> >No, and I don't mean to give that impression, if I did, I'm sorry.
>
>
>
> And I didn't mean to imply that you did.  I just wanted to call
> attention to the problem of race that threatens to overshadow the
> real issues of the current race.  (;))
>
>
>
> >Certainly, there are those who will not vote for Obama because they
> disagree
> >with his policies, or consider McCain to be a better candidate for
> >President. That doesn't make them bigots or racist.
>
>
>
> Correctamundo!
>
>
>
> >But there are some who will automatically vote against him because of his
> >race, just as there are some who will vote against McCain because of his.
>
>
>
> And *both* groups are racist bigots.
>
>
> . . . ronn!  :)
>
>
>
> ___
> http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
>

Agreed.

john
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Re: USA Presidential Race

[John Garcia]

On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 6:54 PM, Ronn! Blankenship <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> At 09:04 AM Monday 6/9/2008, John Garcia wrote:
> >On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 3:13 PM, Alberto Monteiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > John Garcia wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Now that it looks like it's McCain vs. Obama (listed in alphabetical
> > > > order) I was wondering what you all think of this matchup. I'm
> especially
> > > > interested in what
> > > > our friends from outside of the USA think.
> > > >
> > > Here in Brazil it seems that McCain will easily win, and that Obama
> > > is like a fringe candidate, just there to "prove" that Dems aren't
> > > racist bigots (and Hillary was there just to "prove" the non-sexism).
> > >
> > > Alberto Monteiro
> > >
> > > ___
> > > http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
> > >
> >
> >Hmmm.
> >That's interesting. Last summer, someone asked me who I thought would be
> the
> >next President and I replied
> >"Some rich white guy". Now that I've heard Obama, I do think that he has a
> >very good chance of being elected.
> >Just how many voters will either vote for McCain or stay home is unknown.
> >Not very many people are willing to give
> >what may be seen as a "racist" answer to pollsters.
>
>
>
> Is the implication that voters must either vote for Obama or be
> bigots, iow, the only reason anyone would not vote for Obama is
> because he is black and they are racist?
>
>
> . . . ronn!  :)
>
>
>
> ___
> http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
>

No, and I don't mean to give that impression, if I did, I'm sorry.
Certainly, there are those who will not vote for Obama because they disagree
with his policies, or consider McCain to be a better candidate for
President. That doesn't make them bigots or racist.
But there are some who will automatically vote against him because of his
race, just as there are some who will vote against McCain because of his.

john
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Re: USA Presidential Race

[John Garcia]

On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 3:13 PM, Alberto Monteiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

>
> John Garcia wrote:
> >
> > Now that it looks like it's McCain vs. Obama (listed in alphabetical
> > order) I was wondering what you all think of this matchup. I'm especially
> > interested in what
> > our friends from outside of the USA think.
> >
> Here in Brazil it seems that McCain will easily win, and that Obama
> is like a fringe candidate, just there to "prove" that Dems aren't
> racist bigots (and Hillary was there just to "prove" the non-sexism).
>
> Alberto Monteiro
>
> ___
> http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
>

Hmmm.
That's interesting. Last summer, someone asked me who I thought would be the
next President and I replied
"Some rich white guy". Now that I've heard Obama, I do think that he has a
very good chance of being elected.
Just how many voters will either vote for McCain or stay home is unknown.
Not very many people are willing to give
what may be seen as a "racist" answer to pollsters.
Having said that, Obama may have attracted enough new voters to offset the
bigots.
It'll be something to watch.

john
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USA Presidential Race

[John Garcia]

Now that it looks like it's McCain vs. Obama (listed in alphabetical order)
I was wondering what you all think of this matchup. I'm especially
interested in what
our friends from outside of the USA think.

john
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Re: Tornado!

[John Garcia]

On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 12:52 AM, Julia Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> The shed is destroyed, the neighbors lost the top of their chimney.
> Everything in our back yard got tossed around, and the plastic
> snap-together playscape is in pieces, possibly some no longer in our yard.
> The roof has new leaks (and there was a piece of shingle by the front
> door, I'm sure some shingles are halfway to the next county, not that it's
> all that *far* to the next county) and one window is broken.
>
> We are all fine, unharmed, and likely to stay that way since I got all the
> broken glass up in the area that the kids are allowed to be in.  We spent
> the worst of it in the storm shelter, felt the air pressure drop (there's
> a vent to outside, to keep the pressure equalized on both sides of the
> door), heard the wind, and then the air pressure normalized and the wind
> subsided.  It was freaky-scary there for awhile (and both the boys did, in
> fact, freak), but we're fine.
>
> I just need to let more people who live near us know that hey, if the
> house is flattened, we're probably underneath, safe and sound but grumpy
> and getting grumpier with every passing minute
>
>Julia
>
> ___
> http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
>

Glad to hear you are ok.

john
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Climate Change & National Security

[John Garcia]

Greetings all

I thought that some of you might be interested in this publication from the
US Army Strategic Studies Institute on
Climate Change and National Security.
http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pubs/display.cfm?pubID=862
I haven't read it yet, but will do so very soon.

Good night and good luck

john
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Re: Adressing Global Warming

[John Garcia]

On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 8:39 PM, Doug Pensinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Wayne wrote:
>
> >
> > Seems to me, he is just pointing out the irony in the fact that the
> Green
> > Movement is a product of affluence which is a product of technology.
>  And
> > more specifically that the Green movement is antipathetic to the
> > technology
> > that has given them the time and resources  to become environmentally
> > aware.
> >
> > Am I right?
> >
> > But that's a false dichotomy.  We've become environmentally aware
> because
> > the technology is what fouls the environment.  The first time I flew
> into LA
> > in 1970 there was a thick, foul, yellow-brown haze that enveloped the
> city.
> > Did they figure out that millions of cars spewing lead tainted toxins
> was at
> > the root of the problem because they had "the time and the resources"?
> >
>
>
> > Are we then saying saying that dark complected people that don't speak
> > English very well are too stupid to understand why the food tastes funny
> and
> > makes you sick when you shit in the river upstream of where you draw
> your
> > cook-water?
> >
>
>  Doug
> Common Sense Maru
>

 I suspect that people who are caught up in the daily struggle of survival,
getting shelter, water, some grains to eat aren't placing the same weight on
environmental issues as we in the affluent countries are.

john
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Re: What were they thinking? (MS Office 2007)

[John Garcia]

On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 4:18 PM, Dave Land <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Apr 24, 2008, at 11:24 AM, Curtis Burisch wrote:
>
>  What else is like this... endless "upgrades" to convince people
>  that
> >> their
>  perfectly good old product is obsolete?
> >
> >> The one that really gets me is razor blades.
> >
> >> Does anyone really need 5 blades vibrated by a small motor to shave?
> >> Is the new Gillette FusionPower Phenom with 5 blades and "onboard
> >> microchip for consistent power" that much better that the 4 blade
> >> model from last year or the 3 blade SensorExcel from a couple of
> >> years ago?
>
> This reminds me of two multi-bladed-razor bits of comedy:
>
> The first is a commercial by Philips for their Coolskin 2005 electric,
> which begins with a fake ad for "Quintippio" with 15 blades.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV42I26tx2s
>
> The second is an Onion piece, "F*** Everything, We're Doing Five
> Blades",
> from the era when the idea of a razor with five blades was, in itself,
> comic:
>
> http://www.theonion.com/content/node/33930
>
> Dave
>
> ___
> http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
>

Back in the early days of SNL (the '70s) they did a mock commercial for a
cartridge with 3 blades. IIRC, the first grabbed the hair, the second pulled
it further, and the third ripped your skin off. Very frakkin funny at the
time, now less so.

john

never quite got the hang of shaving with pop's old cut-throat maru
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Re: Battlestar Galactica

[John Garcia]

Now that The Wire has finished its run, BSG is the best show on television.

john

On Sat, Apr 5, 2008 at 11:13 PM, William T Goodall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> That was not disappointing.
>
>
> Final 19 Maru
> --
> William T Goodall
> Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
> Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/
>
> "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit
> atrocities." ~Voltaire.
>
> ___
> http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
>
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Re: Brin: Singularities, Nightmares, and Japanese Sci-Fi

[John Garcia]

It's possible. The director of Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow created
his demo on a Mac with a couple of actors in front of a blue screen.
Hopefully, any CGI created characters will look better than the ones in
Final Fantasy:The Spirits Within.
My preference would be to have human actors in front of a blue screen and
all others animated. I seem to remember Himself once writing that he'd like
to see Cate Blanchett play Gillian. Now I'd pay 10 bucks to see that.

john

On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 4:03 PM, David Brin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Thanks guys.
>
> I keep expecting that the new computer graphics would
> empower semi-professionals to start a golden age of
> animated SF...
>
> But it hasn't happened yet, alas...
>
> Maybe some of the graphics challenge winners will
> spark something!
> ___
> http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
>
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Re: Maybe they should try Wisk . . . ?

[John Garcia]

How would they rub it on?

remembering old tv maru
john



On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 9:35 PM, Ronn! Blankenship <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> March 6, 2008
>
> Dwayne Brown
> Headquarters, Washington
> 202-358-1726
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Carolina Martinez
> Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
> 818-354-9382
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> RELEASE: 08-074
>
> SATURN'S MOON RHEA ALSO MAY HAVE RINGS
>
> PASADENA, Calif. - NASA's Cassini spacecraft has found evidence of
> material orbiting Rhea, Saturn's second largest moon. This is the
> first time rings may have been found around a moon.
>
> A broad debris disk and at least one ring appear to have been detected
> by a suite of six instruments on Cassini specifically designed to
> study the atmospheres and particles around Saturn and its moons.
>
> "Until now, only planets were known to have rings, but now Rhea seems
> to have some family ties to its ringed parent Saturn," said Geraint
> Jones, Cassini scientist, and lead author on a paper that appears in
> the March 7 issue of the journal Science. Jones began this work while
> at the Max Planck Institute for Solar System Research,
> Katlenburg-Lindau, Germany, and is now at the Mullard Space Science
> Laboratory, University College, London.
>
> Rhea is roughly 950 miles in diameter. The apparent debris disk
> measures several thousand miles from end to end. The particles that
> make up the disk and any embedded rings probably range from the size
> of small pebbles to boulders. An additional dust cloud may extend up
> to 3,000 miles from the moon's center, almost eight times the radius
> of Rhea.
>
> "Like finding planets around other stars, and moons around asteroids,
> these findings are opening a new field of rings around moons," said
> Norbert Krupp, a scientist on Cassini's Magnetospheric Imaging
> Instrument from the Max Planck Institute for Solar System Research.
>
> Since the discovery, Cassini scientists have carried out numerical
> simulations to determine if Rhea can maintain rings. The models show
> that Rhea's gravity field, in combination with its orbit around
> Saturn, could allow rings that form to remain in place for a very
> long time.
>
> The discovery was a result of a Cassini close flyby of Rhea in
> November 2005, when instruments on the spacecraft observed the
> environment around the moon. Three instruments sampled the dust
> directly. The existence of some debris was expected because a rain of
> dust constantly hits Saturn's moons, including Rhea, knocking
> particles into space around them. Other instruments' observations
> showed how the moon was interacting with Saturn's magnetosphere, and
> ruled out the possibility of an atmosphere.
>
> Evidence for a debris disk in addition to this tenuous dust cloud came
> from a gradual drop on either side of Rhea in the number of electrons
> detected by two of Cassini's instruments. Material near Rhea appeared
> to be shielding Cassini from the usual rain of electrons. Cassini's
> Magnetospheric Imaging Instrument also detected sharp, brief drops in
> electrons on both sides of the moon, suggesting the presence of rings
> within the disk of debris. The rings of Uranus were found in a
> similar fashion, by NASA's Kuiper Airborne Observatory in 1977, when
> light from a star blinked on and off as it passed behind Uranus'
> rings.
>
> "Seeing almost the same signatures on either side of Rhea was the
> clincher," added Jones. "After ruling out many other possibilities,
> we said these are most likely rings. No one was expecting rings
> around a moon."
>
> One possible explanation for these rings is that they are remnants
> from an asteroid or comet collision in Rhea's distant past. Such a
> collision may have pitched large quantities of gas and solid
> particles around Rhea. Once the gas dissipated, all that remained
> were the ring particles. Other moons of Saturn, such as Mimas, show
> evidence of a catastrophic collision that almost tore the moon apart.
>
>
> "The diversity in our solar system never fails to amaze us," said
> Candy Hansen, co-author and Cassini scientist on the Ultraviolet
> Imaging Spectrograph at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena,
> Calif. JPL manages Cassini for NASA. "Many years ago we thought
> Saturn was the only planet with rings. Now we may have a moon of
> Saturn that is a miniature version of its even more elaborately
> decorated parent."
>
> These ring findings make Rhea a prime candidate for further study.
> Initial observations by the imaging team when Rhea was near the sun
> in the sky did not detect dust near the moon remotely. Additional
> observations are planned to look for the larger particles.
>
> The Cassini-Huygens mission is a cooperative project of NASA, the
> European Space Agency and the Italian Space Agency. The
> Magnetospheric Imaging Instrument was designed, built and is operated
> by an international team led by the Applied Physics Laboratory, Johns
> Hopkins University, Laurel, Md. For i

Re: US Doomed

[John Garcia]

On Jan 15, 2008 7:21 PM, Nick Arnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On 1/15/08, John Garcia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > ... This is a guy who doesn't believe in
> > evolution.
>
>
> He apparently believes it's just fine for the Constitution to evolve a
> bit.
> Or would that be "devolve?"
>
> Nick
>
>
Devolve for sure. Huckabee is just another (albeit charismatic) politician
trying to remake the world they way he wants it to be. Alas, his world is
not the world I want to live in. I wouldn't leave the US if he won, but my
attitude would be (to quote some friends of mine)
"Oh, it's on now mr fr!"

john
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Re: US Doomed

[John Garcia]

Yeah, but Americans are always trying to make changes to and end run around
the Constitution, because something in it (or not in it) annoys them. Look
at things like free speech restrictions on college campuses or the hue and
cry every time some defendant's case is dismissed because of a bad search.
And it's Huckabee, for chrissakes. This is a guy who doesn't believe in
evolution. Should any of us be surprised that he wants to put his God, not
just God, but his, into the Constitution.

"It is no accident that the 'establishment clause' is the very first thing
mentioned in the very first article of the Bill of Rights"
-- David Saperstein

john

On Jan 15, 2008 5:47 PM, David Hobby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> John Garcia wrote:
> > Amending the Constitution is not as easy as Huckabee may wish, (pun
> > intended) Gracias a Dios. See http://www.usconstitution.net/constam.html.
> If
> > elected, he won't be able to just wave his hand and have it done.
>
> Yes, but it's the thought that counts.
>
> And that's scary!
>---David
>
> ROU  Amazing
> ___
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>
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Re: US Doomed

[John Garcia]

Amending the Constitution is not as easy as Huckabee may wish, (pun
intended) Gracias a Dios. See http://www.usconstitution.net/constam.html. If
elected, he won't be able to just wave his hand and have it done.

john

On Jan 15, 2008 4:06 PM, Nick Arnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Jan 15, 2008 12:23 PM, William T Goodall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Huckabee_Amend_Constitution_to_meet_Gods_0115.html
> >
> > Huckabee: Amend Constitution to be in 'God's standards'
> > David Edwards and Muriel Kane
> > The United States Constitution never uses the word "God" or makes
> > mention of any religion, drawing its sole authority from "We the
> > People." However, Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee
> > thinks it's time to put an end to that.
>
>
> Um... William, if Huckabee is elected president of my country, would you
> have room for me and my family in yours?
>
> In other words, I'd rather live with a rabid atheist than in a theocracy.
>
> Nick
>
> --
> Nick Arnett
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Messages: 408-904-7198
> ___
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>
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12 days of Christmas

[John Garcia]

Came across this on the net. Season's Greetings to you all.

john

December 14, 1972

My dearest darling John:

Who ever in the whole world would dream of getting a real Partridge in a
Pear Tree? How can I ever express my pleasure. Thank you a hundred times for
thinking of me this way.

My love always, Agnes
--

December 15, 1972

Dearest John:

Today the postman brought your very sweet gift. Just imagine two turtle
doves. I'm just delighted at your very thoughtful gift. They are just
adorable.

All my love, Agnes
--

December 16, 1972

Dear John:

Oh! Aren't you the extravagant one. Now I must protest. I don't deserve such
generosity, three French hens. They are just darling but I must insist,
you've been too kind.

All my love, Agnes
--

December 17, 1972

Dear John:

Today the postman delivered four calling birds. Now really, they are
beautiful, but don't you think enough is enough. You are being too romantic.

Affectionately, Agnes
--

December 18, 1972

Dearest John:

What a surprise. Today the postman delivered five golden rings, one for
every finger. You're just impossible, but I love it. Frankly, all those
birds squawking were beginning to get on my nerves.

All my love, Agnes
--

December 19, 1972

Dear John:

When I opened the door today there were actually six geese laying on my
front steps. So you're back to the birds again huh? These geese are huge.
Where will I ever keep them? The neighbors are complaining and I can't sleep
through the racket. Please stop.

Cordially, Agnes
--

December 20, 1972

John:

What's with you and those freaking birds?? Seven swans a swimming. What kind
of damn joke is this? There's bird poop all over the house and they never
stop the racket. I can't sleep at night and I'm a nervous wreck. It's not
funny. So stop those freaking birds.

Sincerely, Agnes
--

December 21, 1972

O.K. Buster:

I think I prefer the birds. What the hell am I going to do with 8 maids a
milking? It's not enough with all those birds and 8 maids a milking, but
they had to bring their damn cows. There is manure all over the lawn and I
can't move in my own house. Just lay off me, smartass.

Agnes
--

December 22, 1972

Hey Shithead:

What are you? Some kind of sadist? Now there's nine pipers playing. And
Christ do they play. They've never stopped chasing those maids since they
got here yesterday morning. The cows are getting upset and they're stepping
all over those screeching birds. What am I going to do? The neighbors have
started a petition to evict me.

You'll get yours! Agnes
--

December 23, 1972

You rotten prick:

Now there's ten ladies dancing. I don't know why I call those sluts ladies.
They've been balling those pipers all night long. Now the cows can't sleep
and they've got diarrhea. My living room is a river of shit. The
Commissioner of Buildings has subpoenaed me to give cause why the building
shouldn't be condemned.

I'm calling the police on you! Agnes
--

December 24, 1972

Listen Fuckhead:

What's with those eleven lords a leaping on those maids and ladies? Some of
those broads will never walk again. Those pipers ran through the maids and
have been committing sodomy with the cows. All twenty-three of the birds are
dead. They've been trampled to death in the orgy. I hope you're satisfied,
you rotten vicious swine.

Your sworn enemy, Agnes
--

December 25, 1972

Dear Sir:

This is to acknowledge your latest gift of twelve fiddlers fiddling which
you have seen fit to inflict on our client, Miss Agnes McHolstein. The
destruction, of course, was total. All correspondence should come to our
attention. If you should attempt to reach Miss McHolstein at Happy Dale
Sanitarium, the attendants have been instructed to shoot you on sight. With
this letter please find attached a warrant for your arrest.

Cordially, Law Offices of Badger, Bender and Chole
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Re: A Family Tragedy

[John Garcia]

Sorry for your loss, Rob.

john

On Dec 19, 2007 6:14 PM, Robert Seeberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> On 12/19/2007 9:52:13 AM, Nick Arnett ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > On Dec 18, 2007 7:52 PM, Robert Seeberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > My family mourns today the death of Chase Taylor Williamson, my
> > > nephew, my sister
> > Tracy's oldest child. Chase died hours after an
> > > automobile accident in the early hours of the morning.
> >
> >
> > I'm
> > so sorry to hear this... After our
> > niece's husband was killed just
> > before Thanksgiving, I decided to let it be a good thing that it
> > happened
> > near a holiday because it means that when the anniversary comes
> > around,
> > we'll
> > be with family.
> >
> > Let me offer a sentence that has helped many people get through the
> > holidays
> > when in grief:  "Not this year."  It means that
> > it's okay to tell others --
> > and yourself -- that you're choosing not to
> > skip something this year.  If it
> > will take more energy than it gives you, don't do it.
> >
> > How old was Chase?
> >
>
> He was 21.
> In my immediate family we had a cluster of children all born in a 5
> year period, and they were all close and tight-knit having been
> practically raised together. Brittany was one of the older kids in
> this group and Chase was one of the younger ones. They are taking this
> very hard and watching their grief is excruciating. "It's not fair!
> It's not fair!" must have been repeated hundreds of times yesterday
> and there is so little one can say that does not sound empty during
> these initial stages of grieving. All I could do was hold them tight
> and cry with them, every single one.
>
> I used to babysit all seven of the kids frequently. We would unfold
> the hide-a-bed couch and make popcorn or eat ice cream while watching
> monster movies. I'd get them to stay on the bed by telling them the
> "toe-monsters" would stick out their claws and snip their toes off if
> they got off and that was good for a great deal of giggly fun.
> They would fall asleep with some crappy 80s horror movie on and I
> would sleep on a recliner next to the couch. I was their "Uncle
> Robbiee" and it felt like all the love in the world.
> Sunday morning I stood in line in the wee hours of 34 degrees so that
> I could get my son a Wii for Christmas, and thought I was suffering in
> that cold. 
>
>  I called the Ex-Wife to tell her about Chase last night and she tells
> me that she had been diagnosed with uterine cancer and had been
> hospitalized over the weekend for a procedure. So my son too has
> worries on his 12 year old mind. But we will spend this weekend and
> Christmas Day together and it is all the love in the world.
>
> My wife's birth mother died last week. It is a complicated situation
> that precluded any chance of Susan going to the funeral. But her Dad
> and Step-Mom will coming in to town to be with us this weekend
> It will still be Christmas this Christmas. And we will have all the
> love in the world as the little groups of us come together.
> Tell people you love them, it matters.
>
>
> xponent
> Family And Extended Family Maru
> rob
>
>
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>
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Re: Chat update

[John Garcia]

I just tried the new program. Nice job! Thanks for all your hard work.

john

On Dec 18, 2007 2:20 PM, William T Goodall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I have installed a new and even simpler to use chat program for the
> Brin-L chats. If you want to go and kick the tyres it is running now
> at the usual address:-
>
> http://wtgab.demon.co.uk/~brinl/mud/
>
> This replaces the older mud/mush based chat which is now deprecated.
> Please report any problems with the new system promptly as Wednesday
> is tomorrow...
>
>
> --
> William T Goodall
> Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
> Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/
>
> "You are coming to a sad realization. Cancel or Allow?"
>
>
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