Re: Electronic interface options
I agree with Jon's comments about top and bottom posting. Gmail does a great job of grouping e-mails, so quoted text is just an annoyance as far as I am concerned. Isn't a stand-alone e-mail like this one easier to read than one with a lot of quoted text? Regards, Wayne. ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Br¡n: On Fracking and Earthquakes
Hi Pat, I hardly ever use Facebook for the sort of reasons you mention below. I think Google+ has dealt with those issues very nicely & the conversations there are mostly very interesting & stimulating. If you are interested to see what social media done well looks like you should give it a try. Click here if you would like an invite. https://plus.google.com/i/cFaHskHB458:OADMZ9Ox5uA and here if you want to have a look at David's public posts. https://plus.google.com/116665417191671711571/posts?hl=en Regards, Wayne On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 3:40 AM, Pat Mathews wrote: > > > For what it's worth. I don't do social media, having [begin rant] been > "poked" (hideous, intrusive act) too many times by people who call up a > puzzled "Do I know you and from where?" without any way to check their > profiles before (hideous word) "friending" them. Not to mention being > bombarded with exhortations to play Farmville, and "See how many people want > to date you!" (Yeah. Right.) And sales pitches, since every salescritter on > the planet uses such media as their primary means of communication. [end > rant]. > > > http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ > > > > -- > > > > ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Google+
I have sent you an invite, Matt. Regards, Wayne Eddy On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 7:59 AM, Matt Grimaldi wrote: > If you still have an invite left, I would like one for matzeb...@gmail.com > Thanks, > > -- Matt > > -- > *From:* Alex Gogan > *To:* Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion > *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2011 9:05 AM > *Subject:* Re: Google+ > > Hi Danny > > Done > > > On 18/07/2011 16:46, Danny O'Dare wrote: > > Yes, please invite me! > > Thanks, > DANNY > > On 13 July 2011 18:21, Alex Gogan wrote: > > > Hi Guys, > > If anyone wants some google+ invites email me, or if you are on add me my > email for google is alex.go...@gmail.com have couple hundred here > > Regards > > Alex > > __**_http://box535.bluehost.com/**mailman/listinfo/brin-l_**mccmedia.com<http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com> > <http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com> > > > > ___http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com > > > > ___ > > http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com > > > > > ___ > http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com > > > ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Brin-l Digest, Vol 29, Issue 8
I have found Google+ to be way more engaging & interesting than Facebook and Twitter, and very good platform for having discussions & sharing knowledge. There are already quite a few Brin Listers using Google Plus; Alex, Doug & myself, plus David Brin, Dave Land and a couple of others that haven't posted yet. Regards, Wayne. On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 7:31 AM, Doug Pensinger wrote: > Hi Jo Anne, > > G+ is cool in that you can set up different circles of people and then > post to one, a few or all of them. You can have a brin-l circle and > use it kind of like the email list since, at the click of a button you > can view just the brin-l (or family or friend etc) posts. > > There are a few other differences from FB, but I haven't experimented > with any of them yet. > > Doug > > On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 2:03 PM, Jo Anne wrote: > > Hi Alex -- > > > > Can you tell me why I'd want Google+? > > > > I just got a smart phone, and so far it's smarter than I am. I had to > set > > up a Google account for that. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Jo Anne > > evens...@hevanet.com > > > > > > > > > > On 7/22/11 11:00 AM, "brin-l-requ...@mccmedia.com" > > wrote: > > > >> Send Brin-l mailing list submissions to > >> brin-l@mccmedia.com > >> > >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > >> http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com > >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > >> brin-l-requ...@mccmedia.com > >> > >> You can reach the person managing the list at > >> brin-l-ow...@mccmedia.com > >> > >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > >> than "Re: Contents of Brin-l digest..." > >> > >> > >> Today's Topics: > >> > >>1. google (Jon Louis Mann) > >>2. Re: google (Alex Gogan) > >>3. Re: google (Kevin O'Brien) > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> Message: 1 > >> Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 12:28:45 -0700 (PDT) > >> From: Jon Louis Mann > >> To: brin-l@mccmedia.com > >> Subject: google > >> Message-ID: > >> <1311276525.21479.yahoomailclas...@web110014.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >> > >> me too...~) > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> Message: 2 > >> Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 08:07:47 +0100 > >> From: Alex Gogan > >> To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" > >> Subject: Re: google > >> Message-ID: <4e2921c3.4060...@gogan.com> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >> > >> Hi Jon, > >> > >> No probs but you need to get a gmail email account which are free > >> www.gmail.com and can send out the invite. If there are any others have > >> some invites left. > >> > >> Also if any of you guys are interested in joining my circle just look > >> out for me, alex.go...@gmail.com > >> > >> Regards > >> > >> > >> On 21/07/2011 20:28, Jon Louis Mann wrote: > >>> me too...~) > >>> > >>> ___ > >>> http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> Message: 3 > >> Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 11:57:19 -0400 > >> From: Kevin O'Brien > >> To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" > >> Subject: Re: google > >> Message-ID: <4e299ddf.3050...@zwilnik.com> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >> > >> On 7/22/2011 3:07 AM, Alex Gogan wrote: > >>> Hi Jon, > >>> > >>> No probs but you need to get a gmail email account which are free > >>> www.gmail.com and can send out the invite. If there are any others > >>> have some invites left. > >>> > >>> Also if any of you guys are interested in joining my circle just look > >>> out for me, alex.go...@gmail.com > >>> > >>> Regards > >>> > >> If you have any left, my gmail account is ahuka5...@gmail.com. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > > > > > > > > ___ > > http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com > > > > > > ___ > http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com > > ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Various Items
The novel will be called "Existence" https://plus.google.com/116665417191671711571/posts On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 4:40 AM, Damon Agretto wrote: > I'm receiving. > > Currently re-reading the Mars trilogy. I didn't see anything on Brin's > facebook feed about a new book, but I'm looking forward to such a thing... > > Damon. > > > On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 2:00 PM, Mauro Diotallevi wrote: > >> [tap tap tap] Is this thing on? I haven't received any message since >> the end of April. Did the list fold? Is everyone on vacation? Or is >> everyone just having trouble thinking of things to talk about? >> >> If the lack of list activity is because no one could think of anything >> to talk about... >> >> Does anyone want to chime in on the budget "negotiations" currently >> going in Washington DC? >> >> Who would like to talk about X-Men: First Class? >> >> Cars 2 vs. The Critics: Did the science fiction spy elements cause >> critics to miss the boat on this one? (I personally loved this movie, >> which took a critical drubbing.) >> >> Did anyone else read the article in Discover magazine about using dirt >> to soak up CO2? >> http://discovermagazine.com/2011/may/06-could-dirt-help-heal-the-climate >> >> David Brin says he has finished a "major novel." Speculation? >> Rumors? Inside info? >> >> Discuss! >> >> -- >> Mauro Diotallevi >> "The number you have dialed is imaginary. Please rotate your phone 90 >> degrees and try again." >> >> ___ >> http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com >> >> > > ___ > http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com > > > ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Brin: Why we still use rockets . . .
The deconstruction seems more reasonable than the article to me. On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 7:44 AM, KZK wrote: > > Ronn! Blankenship > > > > Space stasis: What the strange persistence of rockets can teach us > > about innovation. - By Neal Stephenson - Slate Magazine - > > http://www.slate.com/id/2283469/ > > I just read an article that completely deconstructed that article: > > http://www.correntewire.com/shape_social_progress_i > > Which basically says the Stephenson article is Fractally Wrong: Wrong at > at every level of resolution. > > > ___ > http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com > > ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
The Future
Hi all, I have been working on a wiki about technological progress & the future. http://the-future.wikidot.com I know the list spends more time discussing politics and economics than the future & science fiction, but I thought there might be a few people interested in the site anyway. Regards, Wayne Eddy. ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Wikileaks
It is interesting to hear that there is overwhelming sentiment against Wikileaks in the US. >From the comments I have read on newspaper articles about Wikileaks here in Australia, I would think a majority of people here (maybe about 75%) are supportive. Personally, I think there is good and bad in what Julian Assange and his team are doing, but that the good definitely outweighs the bad. Regards, Wayne Eddy. On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Doug Pensinger wrote: > There seems to be overwhelming sentiment against Wikileaks' release of > confidential documents and I was wondering how people here (some of > whom may have read Brin's Transparent Society) felt about it. > > I'm generally for transparency and haven't heard of anything yet that > is beyond mildly embarrassing to the U. S. government. I do think > where the safety of our troops is concerned confidentially is > important, but that government secrets should have a relatively short > shelf life in all cases. > > Doug > > ___ > http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com > > ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Comet Hartley 2 close-up
How much better Armageddon would have been if they tried to blow up something that actually looked a bit like a comet. On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 4:05 AM, Ronn! Blankenship < ronn_blankens...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > From this morning's fly-by: > > > http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/495296main_epoxi-1-full_full.jpg > > http://tinyurl.com/2bkv3jv > > > ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Startide Rising Wiki
I have been trying to remember when I first came across the wiki concept. I have a suspicion it might have been when someone on this list mentioned a Startide Rising wiki. I was wondering if anyone can tell me when it was set up, if it still exists and/or what happened to it? Thanks, Wayne Eddy ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Is anybody home?
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 10:37 PM, Jim Sharkey wrote: > Dan wrote: > >I think most email lists are dropping themselves. The modern thing to > write > >is less than 144 charact > > I have a twitter account, but I basically don't use it because of the 144 character limit. I do use Google Buzz a bit, which I find to be a much better alternative if you want to use real sentences. As an added bonus, David posts there regularly. Regards, Wayne. ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Really cheap energy
Sounds interesting, but I wonder how it would cope with a big storm? On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 4:07 AM, Keith Henson wrote: > http://www.slideshare.net/chris8649/stratosolar-overview > http://www.zinzzu.com/stratosolar.html > > If this works as advertised, there will be no economic reason to build > SBSP. > > Keith > > ___ > http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com > > ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Apprehension, was listmail
> > On Sun, May 2, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Keith Henson > wrote: > > The concept here leads to "the singularity," of nanotechnology and > weakly godlike AI. I see no way to avoid it. > > It doesn't matter if humans manage to keep up with advancing > technology or wind up relating to our successor the way cats do to > humans. Things are going to change radically and it's likely this > change will happen before mid century. This offers, for example, an > explanation for the Fermi Question. > > There are lots of things to discuss, but very few people want to > discuss such an unsettling future. > > I'm certainly interested in discussing the future, the Fermi paradox, and the possibility of a technological singularity, and I'm sure many others are too. I don't think that is the root problem. I think because there are so many places that people can go to discuss issues now, that it is (ironically) much harder to find people to discuss things with - if that makes sense. IHere? Facebook? Twitter? LinkedIn? Wave? Buzz? Somewhere else? ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Br?n on global warming
Hey Trent. I hear what your saying. If you use all the energy you gained by burning carbon locking it back up again it is all a bit pointless isn't it. The article assumes an exponential increase in the use of solar energy over the next 20 years, which basically solves our biggest problem (cheap renewable energy) anyway. AIl the same I love the article, and I love the dry humour - the idea of a such mega-scale engineering project appeals to me and it ties in nicely with Keiths space based solar power plans too. On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 8:09 AM, Trent Shipley wrote: > > Why not convert it back to coal -- or wood -- so we can burn it again? > > Cleaner energy through reverse entropy and perpetual motion. (OK. I > looked over the table of contents. There seems to be a solar input.) > > ___ > http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com > > > ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Br?n on global warming
Found what I thought was a terrific paper on carbon sequestration. It suggests that it should be possible to use nanotechnology to convert atmospheric carbon dioxide into diamond bricks by the 2030's. http://www.imm.org/Reports/rep043.pdf ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Br?n on global warming
Very few people that I know are skeptical that human activity is causing more carbon dioxide to enter the atmosphere or that this is contributing to a rise in global temperatures. I do think that a lot of people are legitimately skeptical that it is the existential threat that some people make it out to be, or that it is the single most pressing issue of our time. If people are skeptical it is of politicians and lobby groups, not of scientists. I agree that humanity should work at developing renewable energy sources, that we should strive to make everything more energy efficient and that we should try to eradicate waste, but I don't believe that carbon emissions are the most pressing reason to do so. I'd prefer to see money being spent on fusion power research, and finding ways to harness the collective intelligence of the human race, than flying plane loads of delegates to Copenhagen. In fact I think that collective intelligence is the key to everything. When people talk about the Technological Singularity they mostly seem to think about smart computers making smarter computers, but I think it is more about humankind collaborating together to find better ways of collaborating.I have this vision of a day in the not to distant future when the collective intelligence of humankind will be unleashed like a sort of benevolent great eye of Modor, whose gaze when directed at even the most intractable problems, will cause them to evaporate in a puff of logic. ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Is this thing on?
Say something about the free market and how good or bad it is and that should fire up the list! On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 3:04 AM, Jeroen van Baardwijk wrote: > > > Is this thing on? > > > > > > Is this silence (no messages for several days) caused by technical issues, > or is Brin-L no longer the high-volume list is once was? > > > > > > Jeroen van Baardwijk > > > > -- > > Wonderful World of Brin-L Website: www.brin-l.com > > Alliance for Progress Encyclopedia: www.brin-l.com/a4p > > > > > > ___ > http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com > > > ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Purpose of the Wiki
I'm interested to hear what everyone thinks the purpose of the SF Foswiki should be? Is it ... a) just a place to store SF related information not sufficiently important to be incorporated into WIkipedia. b) a place for things discussed on the Brin List to be documented in a systematic way, for the general interest of list members, and perhaps a focal point for discussions and intra-list socialisation. (I'd much rather read an article about space based solar power or market economics on a wiki, than in 3000 e-mails.) c) a genuine reference work that aspires to be the No.1 place on the internet, that people come to seek out information about Science Fiction. Personally, I think (b) makes most sense. Regards, Wayne Eddy ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: SciFi and Fantasy(?) Wiki
I've done a fair bit of wiki work over the last couple of years, using both Wikimedia & Wikidot wikis. e.g. http://www.lgam.info Building up a wiki from scratch is a big job, and I think it would be a good idea to do a bit of research into existing science fiction related wikis to see if there are any existing ones that might be worth contributing to. I did a quick search and found the following, but I am sure there are 100's of others out there. http://www.modernscifi.com/tiki-index.php http://www.galaxiki.org/wiki/ http://scifi.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Apart from the wikis that I have created personally, I think the most interesting future related one that I have stumbled across so far is the accelerating future wiki. http://www.acceleratingfuture.com/wiki/Main_Page Regards, Wayne Eddy On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 11:16 AM, Nick Arnett wrote: > > > On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Trent Shipley wrote: > >> Nick Arnett wrote: >> >> > >> > >> > On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 11:58 AM, > > <mailto:tship...@deru.com>> wrote: >> > >> > I did not send the original to the list. Feel free to forward this >> > to the list. >> > >> > I'm partial to MediaWiki. >> > >> > >> > I have installed MediaWiki here: >> > >> > http://www.nickarnett.net/sfwiki/ >> > >> > We can create a domain name for it and point it there when we're ready >> > to go public with it. >> > >> > I guess there's no real need for admins... >> >> POWER, I have been denied privilege and POWER!! Oh, the agony. >> > > What wouldja like? ;-) > > Seriously, though, the wiki gives everybody lotsa power... I'm not familiar > enough with Media Wiki to see (a) what administrators might do via the web > interface and (b) exactly how to create 'em. It's a php associative array, > the docs tell me. > > I'm happy to keep the discussion here for now, to get it going. > > Any other experience wiki-ers here? > > Nick > > > ___ > http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com > > > ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Google Wave
Hi all, Nick & Lance have both turned up in my Wave contacts list, so I guess that means they both got their invitations OK. Can't see Dave there yet though. I have started a discussion here & added Nick & Lance to it. https://wave.google.com/wave/#restored:wave:googlewave.com!w%252B06VwwaASC I tried searching for sen...@iicx.net, but the search only appears to work for x...@googlewave.com, I tried sen...@googlewave.com, but got no hits. My wave address is darkenf...@googlewave.com if anyone wants to find the conversation that way. Sorry, to the others who would have liked an invite. I have only got two left, and I am saving them for the moment, perhaps Nick or Lance might have one to spare. I'm still getting the hang of Wave. I think it has got definite potential, but I'm not sure that it is going to be a game changer. Regards, Wayne (from a new e-mail address) Eddy ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Google Wave
Hi Lance, have you got a gmail address you want to use? I have sent Nick & Dave invites, and I am happy to you one too, but I want to invite a few others from elsewhere so three invites for the Brin List will have to do for now. Looking forward to waving with you in the near future, Regards, Wayne. P.S. Google says: "Google Wave is more fun when you have others to wave with, so please nominate people you would like to add. Keep in mind that this is a preview so it could be a bit rocky at times. Invitations will not be sent immediately. We have a lot of stamps to lick. Happy waving!" - Original Message - From: "Lance A. Brown" To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:31 AM Subject: Re: Google Wave > > > Wayne Eddy said the following on 10/14/2009 6:07 PM: >> Hi all, I just got access to Google Wave, and I was wondering if there >> was anyone on the list who might be interested in helping my try it out >> by joining a discussion about the future? >> >> Regards, >> >> Wayne Eddy > > I'd love to get an invite and give it a try as well, Wayne. > > -- > GPG Fingerprint: 409B A409 A38D 92BF 15D9 6EEE 9A82 F2AC 69AC 07B9 > CACert.org Assurer > > ___ > http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com >___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Google Wave
No Problem, Nick. I will send you an invite - I think it might take a few days to process though. I assume you want to use this address nick.arn...@gmail.com ? Regards, Wayne. - Original Message - From: Nick Arnett To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:11 AM Subject: Re: Google Wave On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Wayne Eddy wrote: Hi all, I just got access to Google Wave, and I was wondering if there was anyone on the list who might be interested in helping my try it out by joining a discussion about the future? Can you invite others to the beta? I'm interested, but I don't have access. Nick -- ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Google Wave
Hi all, I just got access to Google Wave, and I was wondering if there was anyone on the list who might be interested in helping my try it out by joining a discussion about the future? Regards, Wayne Eddy ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: WeChooseTheMoon
Hi Doug, everyone. I think that both groups & the free market sometimes make better decisions than individuals, but that the answer to life the universe and everything, returning to the moon and health care, is finding ways to allow groups to make better decisions than individuals every single time. I don't think that a free market by itself is able to do this. I've been thinking about this in several different contexts lately. When I think of there being nearly 7 billion humans on Earth today, I don't see that as an environmental disaster about to happen, I see it as a huge reservoir of knowledge and untapped computational & decision making power. I think a huge problem for humanity is that 99% plus of intellectual effort is spent reinventing the wheel, and that free and open knowledge sharing and finding ways of enabling it are the keys to reducing duplication of effort and a better future for the human race. I think a lot has happen lately in the realm of web 2.0 and the development of software collaboration tools, and I hope this will start to result in increased intellectual productivity in the not to distant future. I've spent a fair bit of time over the last nine months working on a wiki to help Australian Local Governments share information, and I think if more people started and contributed to similar initiatives I think that would be a step in the right direction. I've read as much as I can about google wave and I think that will help. I have gotten excited about open source software and where its going. And I've recently read about networked improvement communities, and I am trying to find out more, with a view of joining a few or promoting them. I'm optomistic about the future of the world, and even if there id not a singularity around the corner, I think good things are. Regards, Wayne. I recently read a bit about - Original Message - From: Doug Pensinger To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 6:47 PM No, what I believe is that regarding matters that effect a group of people we often make better, more responsible choices when we act as a group rather than as an individual. We are inherently selfish, but we understand that selflessness is both more noble and more beneficial to the whole. Acting as individuals we will tend towards selfishness; as a group, less so. That said, individuality and indeed selfishness have attributes that the group can't always compete with. Competitiveness sparks innovation and motivates people to work hard and they should and do expect to reap the benefits of their labors. The trick is to balance the two by allowing our competitive nature to flourish while not allowing our baser nature to take paths that will be detrimental in the long run. I think that while without our individual attributes we wouldn't have come so far so fast, but that without the group we would sill have claws or hooves. Doug___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: New Uplift Universe question....
I'd love to find out what happened to Tom, Toshio, Dennie, Keepiru, etc. I remember reading the short story "Lung Fish" and thinking that the crew of the lifeboat might end up finding a dilapidated outpost of a robotic civilization, even before machine intelligences were mentioned in the uplift books. - Original Message - From: medieva...@aol.com To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 11:49 AM Subject: Re: New Uplift Universe question You mean Uplift novels. Dr. Brin is in the marketing stage for his new close (to present) future history. Personally, I've done everything I can to try to kick him back into Uplift mode. Nothing has worked. (There was a note somewhere that he has a humor Uplift short story in the works.) A return to Jijo was his original intention, as mentioned in the revised issue of GURPS Uplift. I don't think that's still valid. Fans want a return to the main civilization. So what next? The obvious desire of every reader is to see Gill and Tom together again. Not yet, I think. At least not in just one novel. That'd be advancing too far too quickly. And there are several novel ideas that don't even advance in time. The Brothers of the Night on Calafia. The "true" history of how we got Calafia. The Hoon escape of 2000 years ago. And my favorite: Earth from the Garthling Uplift Ceremony to Streaker's arrival. Now for someone who's looking for hints as to what will happen after Streaker's return, go reread Contacting Aliens. Too much detail was given away there if one actually goes looking for it. And I've suggested to Dr. Brin a novel based upon the Rousit. Anybody remember the Rousit? They got left out of Contacting Aliens. William Taylor Name the ship piloted by Bugs Bunny: Whatta Maru___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Uplift Universe question....
Seems like a lot of work to me. Dogs are just not that bright to begin with, at least compared to other species that did get uplifted. I would think Swines would be easier. xponent When Swines Flew Maru rob Clifford D Simak uplifted dogs years earlier, so it was probably a bit old hat. I always thought that elephants would make the most sense as an uplift candidate. They're already very intelligent & as a bonus they have a manipulative organ. I guess uplifting chimps first makes sense, but all you really get in the end is a hairy human. Regards, Wayne. ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Sausage surprise at Miskatonic University
I only Miskatonic I've ever heard of, is the grendel infested river in Legacy of Heorot. Regards, Wayne. - Original Message - From: "Alberto Monteiro" Is this Miskatonic University where one of the three existing copies of the Necronomicon lies? (the other sites are the secret Vatican files, and the secret nazi bunker in Antarctica or the other side of the Moon) Alberto Monteiro ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Freeman Dyson on climate
OK, I'm finished playing Dyson. Someone else take a turn. xponent Ignored Synergies Maru rob No need to play Dyson, he has summed up my take on global warming very nicely thank you. It is nice to know that someone who ideas have turned up in some of my favourite books is on the same wave length as me. Regards, Wayne Eddy ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Wildfires Down Under?
Infi, obviously. - Original Message - From: "Jo Anne" To: Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 5:13 AM Subject: Re: Wildfires Down Under? Geez Ray (and Charlie) Which deity did you piss off? =+)) Jo Anne evens...@hevanet.com ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Australian Fires and Floods
From: "Nick Arnett" > On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 9:15 AM, Rceeberger wrote: > >> Repeating the call-out on the Culture list. >> Are our Aussie friends doing OK? >> We worry for you. > > > Yeah... 96 dead. Sounding too much like the Oakland Hills firestorm times > 10. Already four times as many killed. > > Very scary. > > Nick The count is up to 108 dead this morning, but the toll is expected to rise considerably higher. One of my brothers who lives on the outskirts of Melbourne, stayed with my sister overnight just in case, but the fires didn't head in his direction. My mother who lives in Cobram, 250km from Melbourne, and a long way from the fires, says the air there is very smokey. Bundaberg in Queensland , where I live now, is south of the floods & well north of the fires. Mildura in Victoria where I used to live is also a long way from the fires, but It was 48C there a couple of days ago. Regards, Wayne Eddy ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Galactic Effect On Biodiversity
- Original Message - From: To: Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 6:38 AM Subject: Re: Galactic Effect On Biodiversity > Finally, I assume that modern physics (say from SR on) is correct, and we > do not live in a Newtonian/Maxwellian universe. If you give me that much, > I can show why the principal alternatives to the big bang have far bigger > problems in matching data than does the big bang (especially as modified > by > inflation). What are the principal alternatives? Do they include a matrix like we are all living in a simulation scenario? I don't disbelieve the big bang theory, but the theory of evolution seems much more elegant and obvious by comparison. Also the big bang theory might model things very well, but to me it seems somewhat unfullfilling. The interesting question is, What caused the big bang? That's the real Brane Teaser. Regards, Wayne Eddy ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Metric Conversions
- Original Message - From: "Max Battcher" To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 10:47 AM Subject: Re: Metric Conversions > I have to say that the best one of the lot is the 3L -- 2-Liter Bottle. > It's always funny when someone asks how big a 2-Liter Bottle is in > metric... 3 Liters is a better response than some of the ones I've used. > --Max Battcher-- Seems like a reasonable question to me, Max. How many litres are there in a liter? Regards, Wayne ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
- Original Message - From: "Alberto Vieira Ferreira Monteiro" To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 6:36 AM Subject: Re: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years? > Does it really matters? As long as the generation of energy is costly, > batteries are irrelevant. > > I saw with horror a story about a "green city" in Japan, where all houses > were covered with beautiful solar arrays. > > Very nice, but each monstrosity cost 40.000 _dollars_. For what? Giving > 200 dollars a month of green energy for the next 10 years? > > Alberto Monteiro the neocynical Very good point Alberto. I reckon it would be a safe bet to assume that the factory that produced the solar arrays wasn't solar powered itself. Regards, Wayne Eddy ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
- Original Message - From: "Dan M" To: "'Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion'" Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 2:49 AM Subject: RE: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years? > They are. In my haste in writing I was less precise than I wanted to be. > I > was thinking about the major developed countries (e.g. Western Europe, the > UK and Japan). I know Canada is almost a suburb of the US, with most of > the > population living within 100 miles of the US (and most living south of > Duluth MN, where I grew up). Western Europe isn't a country and I think you are being very condescending suggesting that Australia & Canada aren't major countries. I would like to challenge you to find any reliable agency that makes a distinction between major & minor developed countries, and lists the USA on one side and Australia & Canada on the other. If you absolutely must make a distinction, perhaps G8 countries is a better option. > I thought that much of Australia is not suitable for high density > populations, but I'll stand to be corrected. > And of course, Nordic > countries have low population densities in the far north and in the > mountains. > The point I was trying to make is that the US is far less populated than > where most of the rest of the developed world lives. For example, the 4th > largest metropolitan area in the US (the Houston Metro Area) has the same > population density as the whole of the UK (including the rugged NW of > Scotland). Vast swaths of the US have both good farm land and relatively > low population densities (e.g. Iowa at ~50/sq. mi.) So, there is a lot of > room for the US to increase its population before it approaches Europe. > > Finally, I have a question for those from Oz. My understanding is that > most > of the population of Oz lives on the southern coast because the vast > center > of Australia is not a great place to put a lot of people. Is that > accurate? Mostly true. More people could live inland, but most (for some unknown reason - possibly shopping realated for about 50% of the population) prefer to live in the big cities, which were built on the coast. You could argue that urban areas should be located in arid areas so that the good farmland is not wasted but that is a side issue. Regards, Wayne ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
- Original Message - From: "Charlie Bell" To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 5:39 PM Subject: Re: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years? > > On 05/01/2009, at 6:22 PM, Wayne Eddy wrote: > >> Surely Canada & Australia are both far less densely populated than the >> United States? > > He said developed country. The former of those you mentioned is a > developed southern border, and the latter, a developed coastline... > > Charlie. > (Pedantic for humour value) Below is the list of the countries with the top 30 Human Development Index scores. The countries with asterisks are less densly populated tham the USA. 1. Iceland 0.968 * 2. Norway 0.968 * 3. Canada 0.967 * 4. Australia 0.965 * 5. Ireland 0.960 6. Netherlands 0.958 7. Sweden 0.958 * 8. Japan 0.956 9. Luxembourg 0.956 10. Switzerland 0.955 11. France 0.955 12. Finland 0.954 * 13. Denmark 0.952 14. Austria 0.951 15. United States 0.950 16. Spain 0.949 17. Belgium 0.948 18. Greece 0.947 19. Italy 0.945 20. New Zealand 0.944 * 21. United Kingdom 0.942 22. Hong Kong 0.942 23. Germany 0.940 24. Israel 0.930 25. South Korea 0.928 26. Slovenia 0.923 27. Brunei 0.919 28. Singapore 0.918 29. Kuwait 0.912 30. Cyprus 0.912 Pedantic humour aside Dan's statement that "the US is far less densely populated than any other developed country" is plainly incorrect. Regards, Wayne. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
Surely Canada & Australia are both far less densely populated than the United States? Regards, Wayne Eddy > The US is far less densely populated than any other developed country, its > air and water suppliers are far less polluted than 40 years ago, and > racism > has fallen to the point where we've been able to elect a black president. > > And yet, you sing we're on the eve of destruction? > > Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Admin: Moving the list
From: "Nick Arnett" > I was hoping to find an open-source discussion platform that would allow > me > to easily import the archived messages, so that we would have the benefits > of a mailing list and web forums... haven't found such a thing yet. I > considered using a wiki for that purpose and still might go that route. > > Your suggestions are welcome, of course. Hi Nick, if you do decide to go the wiki route, you should try www.wikidot.com I've been using it for a few months. It is a really good host and it you get 5 x 300MB sites for free. Regards, Wayne Eddy. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Russia (Was What is wealth?)
> No, by "well-educated" I mean professionals - accountants, lawyers, > medics etc. > > Cyprus was full of them working bar, waiting, or worse being exploited > in strip clubs. (It wasn't like London where an attractive woman could > make good money doing "exotic dancing" a couple of times a week - > these girls were often being forced to have sex with customers). > > Charlie. How did you establish that the girls in the strip clubs were well educated russian girls? Regards, Wayne ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Russia (Was What is wealth?)
sive > (>$90/barrel) oil, Russia will have no basis for its economy. At that > point, one real geopolitical risk is a strong China will see an empty > Russia > to its north, with great potential for farming as global warming opens up > farming areas. I would have thought that a low birth rate is very very good evidence of being part of the first world. Things can turn around quickly - look at China - perhaps global warming is just what Russia needs to become a major world power again? Regards, Wayne Eddy ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: What is wealth?
> Dan M said.. > So, we are within a decade of this type of drastic drop in poor country > populations being confined to Sub-Sahara Africa. Fertility rates are > falling around the world, but nowhere so drastic (besides Russia which is > falling out of the developed world) as in the highly developed world > outside > of the US. Hi Dan, I am interested to hear what your basis is for saying that Russia is falling out of the developed world. Regards, Wayne Eddy ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Information Sharing
Is any one on the list involved in or know of any information sharing projects? I have set up wiki for Australian Councils to share Infrastructure Asset Management information, and I would be interested to see how people have set up similar projects elsewhere in the world. http://lgam.wikidot.com/start Regards, Wayne Eddy ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Brin: Life after People
"Life after people" screened here in Australia last night. It was interesting to watch after reading all the comments on the list a while back. The narration seems to have been redubbed - I think to try and give it more of an Australian flavour, so perhaps it has been totally re-edited. From memory there were about five interview snippets with our patron, including the very first one. At one point the narrator said something along the lines of "it is inevitable that one day that mankind will disappear from the world". That may be true, but IMHO that time is a long way off and the Earth, the biosphere & building design, etc., will be changed beyond recognition by that time and that any predictions should take that into account. The segment about abandoned city near Chernobyl was very interesting. It would an interesting project for someone to take a series of photos over the next fifty or a hundred and then make it into a time lapse film. Regards, Wayne Eddy ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: On Topic shocker!
> On 19/11/2008, at 6:20 PM, Wayne Eddy wrote: >> I agree. I would have thought that Australia, New Zealand & Canada >> would be >> least as good if not better choices than the US & Western Europe. > > Maybe, unless you're born indigenous - which was the point of the > thought experiment. Australia, for all her triumphs and successes, > still has huge racism. And outside the major cities, pretty bold > sexism too. > > It's a good place to be, but it's not there yet. > > Charlie. When you say we aren't there yet, are you saying that in the context of the thought experiment that you would have no hesitation in choosing the United States, or Portugal or Germany over Australia if given the choice? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: On Topic shocker!
> >supposing you were going to be placed, at random, into any society on > >Earth >>you do not know what social status you will have, what your income level >>will be, even what gender or nationality you will be >>the only choice you get is the initial choice of countries. >>In what country would you most like to be placed, totally at random? > >>From my point of view, it has to be the United States of Western Europe. > > I'll stick to my South Pacific paradise thank you very much. I agree. I would have thought that Australia, New Zealand & Canada would be least as good if not better choices than the US & Western Europe. Regards, Wayne. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: rude and insulting
> any theories why this person has such a mean streak. > either he was bullied as a child, or he was the bully!~) > it's not like he isn't aware and just lacking in social > skills. he probably never leaves his house and spends > all his time picking arguments on line. > he won't reveal any info mation about himself, so he is > certainly using an alias. no one seems to know how he > found out about this list, but he seems to thrive on > all the attention he receives for being so abusive. > how sad... I have a very strong suspicion that he (John) has read and enjoyed at least one David Brin novel, and that he found the list using google or another search engine, and that he will be more than willing to confirm this dispelling your theory that he is unwilling to reveal information about himself. John, am I correct? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Polarization
>> Your two previous links did not give an example of how Bush >> deregulated anything that may have lead to the "subprime mortgage >> crisis". The youtube video you listed does not give any examples of >> deregulation either. I don't think that word means what you think it >> means. > > OK, *there's* the proof of the sense of humor, quoting Princess Bride. > > (Any old fool can dump links from The Onion.) > > Julia "It must be some new usage of the word that I wasn't previously aware of" would have been better. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Franklin Delano Bush
> Of course, if the government spent less money, there would be less waste. There would be less government waste for certain, but I suspect there would be a comensurate increase in private sector waste. The only reason the government makes bad decisions is because it is made up of people. The private sector is made up of people too. Regards, Wayne ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Democracy (was Health Care / The same damn topic all f-ing week!~)
From: "John Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 12:18 AM Subject: Re: Democracy (was Health Care / The same damn topic all f-ing week!~) >> Not even if they asked and you told them? > > How happy are you on a scale of 1 to 10? No, I don't think > I'd trust my answers on that. Compared to what? Myself > in the past? That would be hard to judge. Other people I > know? Even worse (how do I know how happy they are?). > And how to know how much of the "happiness" is due to > the government and how much is the result of other > causes? Surely you would be happier in a juristiction with a constitution that forbade government involvement in those activitiess you believe to be much better run by the private sector? Surely if you were aware that you were being poled on your happiness in order to assess whether the existing constitution was to be retained or replaced by one that encouraged wild government spending, you (and all right minded citizens) would score themselves 10 out of 10 for hapiness to avoid the change? Regards, Wayne. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Democracy (was Health Care / The same damn topic all f-ing week!~)
- Original Message - From: "John Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 8:03 AM Subject: Re: Democracy (was Health Care / The same damn topic all f-ing week!~) > Wayne Eddy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >> How does the "smaller & cheaper" political system work? > > Badly, but less so. I was interested in the mechanics of the system, not the result, but never mind. What about a system made up of a number of member states with various constitutions, with a higher federal level above consisting of a representative from each of the 13 member states. The federal level would have very limited power & responsibilities, including: 1. Measuring the happiness of the inhabitants of the citizens of each of the member states. 2. Mediating disputes between the states. 3. Every X years replacing the consititution of the state with the greatest drop or smallest increase in average happiness with a constitution based on the constitution of the state with the greatest recorded happiness level, but with one modification. The modfication could be selected from a list of options submitted by the citizens of the state due to have its consitution modified. The above system would tend to be self improving would it not? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Democracy (was Health Care / The same damn topic all f-ing week!~)
- Original Message - From: "John Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 7:07 AM Subject: Re: Democracy (was Health Care / The same damn topic all f-ing week!~) > Wayne Eddy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >> Has anyone got any suggestions for a better political system? > > Smaller and cheaper. How does the "smaller & cheaper" political system work? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Democracy (was Health Care / The same damn topic all f-ing week!~)
- Original Message - From: "John Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 4:06 AM Subject: Re: Health Care (the same damn topic all f-ing week!~) > Bruce Bostwick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >> I dropped out of most of these when one >> conversation reached the point of suggesting that government >> regulation, and not the 1920's equivalent of particularly clueless day >> traders, caused the Great Depression. > > I don't blame you. It can be devastating to find that one's faith in > political > gods was misplaced. Denial is human nature. I don't recall anyone on the list suggesting that democracy is godlike in its effectiveness. I think and I imagine most others on the list would agree that democracy is flawed, but that it is at least marginally beter than most if not all of the other alternatives, and certainly better than anarchy. Has anyone got any suggestions for a better political system? Regards, Wayne Eddy ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Redistribute the wealth
- Original Message - From: "John Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 2:31 AM Subject: Re: Redistribute the wealth > Bruce Bostwick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > [rationalizations deleted] > >> and even if I were able to >> contribute over and above what I'm legally obligated to, it would >> basically just be wasted at the moment. > >> The system >> doesn't work that way, so for now at least, I contribute what's >> required and leave it at that, > > But you don't mind paying taxes that are wasted? Considering income tax to be your money just causes a lot of unnecessary angst. It is money that you never have. It is your nett income that determines what you can afford to buy and your lifestyle. Same deal with sales tax, consider it to be part of the cost of the item (which it is) and all your worries about the evil government spending YOUR money evaporate. By all means vote for the party that you think will spend their money (because it is their money once they're in possession of it) in a way that benefits you or the people you love the most, but stop stressing about them spending YOUR money. Is the money in your pocket your money or your employers money? Is the money in your pocket your money or your employers money? Is the money in your pocket your money or your employers money? Regards, Wayne. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Creationist Ploy
>- Original Message - >From: "Olin Elliott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" >Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:54 AM >Subject: Re: New Creationist Ploy >The "I" that perceives is not anything -- its an illusion, a trick of >perception and >memory. It doesn't exist -- there is not fixed self. >Buddha knews that 2500 years ago, ?>and modern science is showing him >right. Hi Olin, Surely the "I" that perceives is something. Just because it can't exist outside a brain, doesn't mean it isn't real. If matter couldn't exist outside this universe, would that mean that matter is an illusion? Software can't run outside a computer, does that mean it's not real? What exactly does real mean? Regards, Wayne. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Racial and Gender imbalance
> On 23 Oct 2008, at 21:52, Wayne Eddy wrote: >> >> I agree with John and all the others who think that the best man or >> woman >> for the job is the best man or woman for the job! >> > > If you believe that then you must also believe either > > a) white men are remarkably better at important jobs than other people > > or > > b) there is a distinct bias against people who aren't white men for > important jobs. > > If you believe (b) don't you think something should be done about that? > > > Ideals Maru > > -- > William T Goodall Hi William. I do believe what I said, and while nothing is black and white and everything is grey, I believe that (b) is more true than (a). But the solution is still the same. "Always choose the best man or woman for the job." Regards, Wayne. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Racial and Gender imbalance
- Original Message - From: "Jon Louis Mann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 7:09 AM Subject: Racial and Gender imbalance >> I agree with John and all the others who think that the >> best man or woman >> for the job is the best man or woman for the job! >> Regards, >> Wayne. > > explain to me, wayne, why not being an expert on qualified hispanic women > disqualifies me from having an opinion that hispanic women are > underrepresented in government? are either you or john experts? i very > clearly stated in the very first post i made on this topic that i was > referring to QUALIFIED hispanic women. in fact i agree with both you and > john that the > merit should determine who is the best person for the job, regardless of > race, religion or gender!the point i keep trying to make, which both > you and john are persistently determined to ignore, is that these > minorities continue to be underrepresented in proportion to their > population demographic. > jon > Sorry, As I have already said, the post was probably a bit harsher than I intended. You are indeed entitled to have your own opinion. I don't think however you should expect John to do all your research for you and then help you out with your argument for you too!! Regards, Wayne. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Racial and Gender imbalance
> - Original Message - > From: "Jon Louis Mann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 6:29 AM > Subject: Racial and Gender imbalance >> let me ask you the same question, john. who do YOU think is qualified? >> based on what values? i don't pretend to claim to know enough about >> qualified hispanic women to answer your question, but i would like to ask >> you why you think there are, or are not, more hispanic women in >> government >> in proportion to their population demographic? that is the real point i >> am making which you still have not addressed. >> jon > > If you don't claim to know enough about qualified hispanic women to answer > John's question which is a very reasonable question considering the > previous > posts, perhaps you shouldn't have made your original statement in the > first > place. > > I agree with John and all the others who think that the best man or woman > for the job is the best man or woman for the job! > > Regards, > > Wayne. Sorry, on re-reading that it is perhaps a bit harsher than I intended. Instead I should have just congratulated John Garcia on doing research on behalf of his opponent and still winning the debate hands down. Regards, Wayne. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Racial and Gender imbalance
- Original Message - From: "Jon Louis Mann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 6:29 AM Subject: Racial and Gender imbalance > let me ask you the same question, john. who do YOU think is qualified? > based on what values? i don't pretend to claim to know enough about > qualified hispanic women to answer your question, but i would like to ask > you why you think there are, or are not, more hispanic women in government > in proportion to their population demographic? that is the real point i > am making which you still have not addressed. > jon If you don't claim to know enough about qualified hispanic women to answer John's question which is a very reasonable question considering the previous posts, perhaps you shouldn't have made your original statement in the first place. I agree with John and all the others who think that the best man or woman for the job is the best man or woman for the job! Regards, Wayne. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Future of the list / Questions?
- Original Message -
From: "Kevin B. O'Brien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion"
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 11:29 AM
Subject: Re: Future of the list / Questions?
> I've been through this a few times, and my experience is that moving to
> a web-type forum generally means the end of the community. Sometimes I
> think that is the intention ("I'm getting too much e-mail, how can we
> cut it down?").
>
> I have a quote in my sig file that goes "A university is what a college
> becomes when it stops caring about its students." I think a corollary
> should be that a web forum is what a discussion list becomes when people
> stop caring about the conversation.
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Kevin B. O'Brien TANSTAAFL
Somebody mentioned a while ago that there are currently two Brin Lists,
three if you count David's blog. Was an argument about the list's format
the reason for the split? I had a look at the site for the other list
yesterday and I note that the volume of posts there is pretty light compared
to here.
William you are member of both, and you plug the weekly chat forum is that a
fourth Brin List?
Is binary fission the answer to list longevity I wonder? If there were 20
Brin Lists each claiming to be the original, you might imagine that at least
one would find the right formula and continue on into the distant future.
Regards,
Wayne.
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Future of the list / Questions?
- Original Message - From: "Nick Arnett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 6:46 AM Subject: Re: Future of the list / Questions? > I hate to pre-announce... but I'm working on installing a blog interface. > I > also hope to mirror that blog to another server, as backup. > > Nick Good idea. William can do a blog on 'Why Religion is Evil'. John can do a blog about 'Why Interference in the Free Market is Evil' etc, etc. and list members can read up on the topics they are interested in as they desire. Should make everyone happy. Regards, Wayne. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Future of the list / Questions?
Has anyone thought much about the future list? What it will be or should be like in 5, 10, 20, 50 or 100 years time? Are people joining & leaving at an accelerating, decelerating or constant rate? Is its demographic changing over time? Has its purpose changed over time? Should its purpose be restated? (I haven't noted a lot of Discussion about the Killer B's or Vernor Vinge since I joined.) Should it move to a newer type of platform? Facebook or a wiki maybe? Does the list have a life of its own? Does it somehow attract the type of member that will enable it live forever? Are monotonous posts and trolls and heated discussions the way it has found to survive? Regards, Wayne Eddy ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science and Ideals.
From: "Euan Ritchie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Sorry if the analogy is confusing or faulty, my main point is that >> governments are "consenting partners" too. > > That just ain't so. As has been observed Government is force. and > there's sweet F.A negotiation between it, its agents and the citizens it > bends to its will. > > Force generally is not required between consenting adults. > > There is the concept of a 'social contract' which is a presumption of an > agreement of fair dealing between people, their fellow citizens and the > government but in practice no one's enforcing that contract. Maybe I am in the minority, but I have never felt the government is opressing me, or forcing me to do things I don't want to do, and I reckon I get fair recompence for paying my taxes & obeying the law. AND if I felt I was being hard done by I am free to move to NZ, or to any other country that I can come to a mutually acceptable arrangement with. Sure some governments are brutal & dishonest, but so are some corporations & individuals. Regards, Wayne. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science and Ideals.
- Original Message - From: "John Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>If I moved to the US >> (which I wouldn't) part of the deal I would strike with the government >> would >> be to accept say bans on short selling of stick if the government decided >> that was a good idea, > > What if "the government" decided all citizens who immigrated from > Australia > should immediately become slaves? Would you accept that? Another part of the deal (there would of course be thousands of parts) would be assurances that I would not become a slave after I emigrated (I believe the American constitution would spell that out). I agree with you in theory when you say "I do not think it is fair for someone to bar me from trading with a mutual consenting partner." I just want to point out that in the bigger picture a partner could be an individual or a corporation or a government, and that agreements can't be taken in isolation, and that to be fair you should probably take into account the trade you have done with the government (tacit or otherwise) to provide you (amongst other things) security for obeying the law. You can't trade away your right to trade something (slaves say) in exchange for Citizenship, and then expect to be able to sell slaves anyway anymore than you can trade your cow to one person for a horse and the same cow to a second person for a sheep. Sorry if the analogy is confusing or faulty, my main point is that governments are "consenting partners" too. Regards, Wayne. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science and Ideals.
- Original Message - From: "John Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Some examples would be raising taxes for a national health care plan, > barring > a new store from being built on private property, banning short-sales of > stock, > raising the minimum wage, import/export tariffs, banning internet > gambling, > restricting offshoring, supporting a bailout of the financial industry > using taxpayer > money, windfall profit taxes, price ceilings on gasoline, repealing NAFTA, > farm > subsidies, banning smoking, trans-fats, etcI could go on, but that > will do for > now. By the way, I do not mean to imply that you support these practices. > I am > only giving examples. I would argue that the above are part of the detail of a consensual deal between and individual and a state, and therefore part of a meta free market. I am a citizen of Australia, and I have been issued a passport, and am free to move to and live in any other country I wish, providing of course I can come to a mutually agreeable arrangement with that country. That agreement would include abiding the laws of that country. If I moved to the US (which I wouldn't) part of the deal I would strike with the government would be to accept say bans on short selling of stick if the government decided that was a good idea, so in the end everything above is part of a free market. Regards, Wayne. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science and Ideals.
From: "Charlie Bell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > It's possible to tell people they're wrong and point out opposing > views without constantly implying that the other party is in some way > trying to be superior. It makes for a much friendlier discussion, and > this is a discussion list. > > Charlie. Too true. There is a passage in "The Mote in God's Eye" where Kevin Renner who is fond of rebutting arguments by blurting out "wrong", and then explaining why, is told that it might be more appropriate to start a rebuttal with "That turns out not to be the case". A lesson for everyone maybe? And on the subject of the Mote in God's Eye, I wonder if some of the doom & gloomers on the list see a cyclic boom & bust civilisation that that of the moties as a possible future for mankind, or if they will settle for nothing except a disaster that wipes that plague that is mankind from the face of the Earth for ever. :-) Regards, Wayne. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Fair Trade
- Original Message - From: "Bruce Bostwick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > The fact that deciding which of the existing 6-7 billion should be > allowed to live is an extremely thorny ethical and moral question (and > one I wouldn't even begin to be qualified to answer) doesn't take away > from the fact that a population of 6-7 billion is far in excess of > what this planet appears to be able to support on a sustainable basis, > nor does it address the problem that the moment anything improves on > the supply side, the population immediately accelerates growth to more > than wipe out those gains on the demand side. (In other words, saying > it's a potentially insoluble problem doesn't make the problem go away.) Lets hope that that technology will eventually enable 6-7 billion humans to exist on Earth on a sustainable basis. Mind you, I think we should be ambitous and work towards a population of 20-100 billion plus near immortal humans, living in stimulating artifical environments in underground arcologies, with say 5-10% of the earths land surface built over, and the remainder left as or reverted to natural environment. We should be trying for fusion power, and biological and nano machines that recycle everything, etc. etc. We should be trying for a technological utopia, and not giving up and dreaming of reverting back to a non-existant preindustrial golden age. Regards, Wayne Eddy. Where is the Science Fiction spirit in you lot? Maru. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The First Event
- Original Message - From: "William T Goodall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 7:07 AM Subject: Re: The First Event > > On 4 Aug 2008, at 21:59, Wayne Eddy wrote: >> Seems to me that something impossible happened at least once in the >> history >> of everything. > > > If it happened it wasn't impossible. > But logically, that means that it is possible something (Say a purple ball) could be created from nothing in your kitchen tomorrow. > Logic Maru ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
The First Event
I'd love to hear everyones thoughts on the original impossible event that created everything. Whether it be; mass being created in the Big Bang from nothing, God appearing from nowhere,. branes forming out over nowhere and later colliding to cause the big bang, or the original multiverse 100 universes removed from ours coming into existance for no reason. Seems to me that something impossible happened at least once in the history of everything. Regards, Wayne ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Genesis
- Original Message - From: "Kevin B. O'Brien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 8:10 AM Subject: Re: Genesis > Wayne Eddy wrote: >> Rising energy costs will probably cause a few problems, but I don't see >> how >> Bush or Cheney for all their failings can be blamed for that particular >> >> problem. > I'm thinking that causing massive instability in the major oil producing > region might have something to do with it. When you add in determined > opposition to any form of conservation, I think most of it is covered. That may have pushed up oil prices by $20 a barrel or so, but it has nothing to do with the underlying problem of finite oil supplies and growing world demand. If anything it might turn out to be a positive - forcing the world to consider its energy future a few years earlier than otherwise. I reckon a hike in the price of oil is trival compared to the deaths and maiming of thosands of Americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis in the name of non-existant weapons of mass destruction. And, I still want to no what global catastrophe Jon was talking about! Regards, Wayne. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Genesis
- Original Message - From: "Jon Louis Mann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: Genesis > it may well come to that, bruce, or the problem may be solved by the > collapse of civilization. either way, it serves us right for letting > things get out of hand... i feel no pity for the heartland of america that > allowed monsters like bush and cheney lead us into an impending worldwide > collapse. the irony is that many of those who benefited from that > malignant government will be prepared to survive the collapse. > jon Which impending worldwide collapse? Rising energy costs will probably cause a few problems, but I don't see how Bush or Cheney for all their failings can be blamed for that particular problem. Surely there are quite few nice people in the heartland of America that are worth your pity? Regards, Wayne. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Neo-Colonialism
>- Original Message - >From: "Jon Louis Mann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" >Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 10:32 AM >Subject: Neo-Colonialism >the global economy has been structured to maintain the historical status >quo of the rich feeding off the poor. > the united nations, world bank and other international institutions could > do a lot more to correct those >inequities, and make sure relief is targe > to those who need it. I've never believed in conspiracies. Greed - sure, incompetance - yes, indifference - yep, fear - yes that too, but not in global conspiracies orchestrated by a powerful few. I think the global economy is what it is, because of the sum of everybody's individual actions, both in rich countries and in poor countries. I don't think it has been structured. I think it has evolved. >i used the model of pre-emptive attack against iraq as a prime example of >how the most powerful nation in the >world attempted to use its power to >corner iraq's oil under the guise of opening them up to democracy.jon I think the US went into Iraq for multiple (mostly bad) reasons. I don't think it was anywhere as simple as, lets go in to get the oil. I think that is a way to simplistic theory. The world and human behavior is very complex - no doubt beyond the analysis of even a Hari Seldon. Regards, Wayne. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Genesis 1:28
From: "Jon Louis Mann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > unfortunately, throughout history, it is the "the best and the brightest" > who have perpetrated evils on the poor and downtrodden. there have been > exceptions, but over and over again governments and religions have used > their ideology or dogma to justify exploitation in the name of spreading > civilization. > again i ask, what gives any one the right to determine whose agenda is > enlightened? what gives any religious schism the right to dictate > reproduction, and/or a monopoly on values, ethics, or morality? > jon I would love to see a summary of the good & evil deeds that the "best & brightest" have been responsible for over the years and contrast that with the deads of the "worst & dimmest", but it hasn't been done and I suspect it is impossible to do. What justification do you have for your assertion? I don't think Hitler or Pol Pot or Idi Amin would be classified as "best & brightest", do you? Regards, Wayne. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Genesis
- Original Message - From: "Bruce Bostwick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > The only exceptions I would make would be for people willing to help > terraform and colonize other habitable bodies in the solar system. > I'm pretty sure Mars' surface could be terraformed to the point where > people could live and produce food there without life support, with > the right approach to releasing the CO2 locked up in the regolith and > using a series of introduced plant species to convert the CO2 to > breathable oxygen and jump-start biosphere growth. With a controlled > population reduction, the economy could probably support a pretty > massive spaceflight/colonization initiative .. I'd like to see Mars colonised too, but it is not a solution to overpopulation. I can't see it ever being possible to send people to Mars at a faster rate than they are being born. Regards, Wayne. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Genesis
- Original Message - From: "Jon Louis Mann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 5:38 AM Subject: Genesis >> > What's wicked about bringing children into the >> world that you have the >> resources to support and nurture? >> Doug > > it's wicked because it creates even more scaricities among other children > in undeveloped countries whose parents do not have the resources to > support and nurture. would you suggest that we forbid anyone too poor > from having children? > jon I agree with Doug. If people only raised the number of children they were able to support & nuture AND everyone one was in a position to know that number AND if everyone was able to ensure they didn't have more than that number, we would end up with the appropriate world population, and far less suffering. What's more a lot of people are probably well off today because their parents and grand parents made good decisions about the number of offspring they could support. Regards, Wayne. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: memes, or genes...
- Original Message - From: "Dave Land" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 4:23 AM Subject: Re: memes, or genes... > On Jul 25, 2008, at 1:45 PM, Wayne Eddy wrote: > >> From: "Jon Louis Mann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >>> what parts of the population are "doing their best to outbreed >>> everyone >>> else", and why? it seems to me that less developed countries are the >>> culprits, partly because children are a source of labor... >>> i would hope that genetic modification is in the forecast (as long >>> as we >>> keep a pool of "wild" humans). >>> >> You don't find the thought of virtually immortal genetically >> enhanced humans >> keeping a pool of "wild" humans is somewhat inhumane? > > Perhaps some would say "posthuman", instead of inhumane? > > http://www.maxmore.com/becoming.htm > > Dave Actually I was thinking more along the lines of "evil" or "reprehensible". The post didn't say anything about gene banks, it talked about keeping "wild" humans. I get annoyed with people who think that mankind is a blight on the world and that the world would be a better place if homo sapiens dies out or civilisation totally collapses. There is nothing desirable about sentinent beings, dying, getting sick, growing old, getting eaten or generally suffering when there is an alternative. The sooner we can go post human the better. If someone wants to revert to the old style genome when they turn 18 fair enough, but kids shouldn't have that choice made for them by their parents, Regards, Wayne. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: memes, or genes...
- Original Message - From: "Jon Louis Mann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 5:57 AM Subject: memes, or genes... > what parts of the population are "doing their best to outbreed everyone > else", and why? it seems to me that less developed countries are the > culprits, partly because children are a source of labor... > i would hope that genetic modification is in the forecast (as long as we > keep a pool of "wild" humans). > jon > You don't find the thought of virtually immortal genetically enhanced humans keeping a pool of "wild" humans is somewhat inhumane? Regards, Wayne. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: USA Presidential Race
- Original Message - From: "jon louis mann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 10:32 AM Subject: USA Presidential Race > > >> Is the implication that voters must either vote for Obama or be >> bigots, iow, the only reason anyone would not vote for Obama is >> because he is black and they are racist? >> . . . ronn! :) > > i am voting for obama BECAUSE he is black; many more will vote for mc > cain to prevent a black man from winning... I am curious why Obama is being categorised as black? Given that his father was black and his mother is white, surely he is brown, or more to the point a person or an American? If he had three grandparents that were white, would he be black, brown, gray, white or a person? Regards, Wayne Eddy. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: USA Presidential Race
Hi John, Here in Australia most people are rather bemused by how drawn out the nomination process is, and wonder if it wouldn't be simpler to hold all the primaries on a single weekend and get it over and done with. I think the majority of the Australian public would prefer it if Obama is the next president, as the Republicans are seen as unnecessarily belicose. I would have thought that Obama & Clinton sniping at other over the past months will make it harder for the Democrats to win, but I can't believe that the American public will vote the Republicans back in after all the lives lost in an unnecessary war. Regards, Wayne Eddy. > Now that it looks like it's McCain vs. Obama (listed in alphabetical > order) > I was wondering what you all think of this matchup. I'm especially > interested in what > our friends from outside of the USA think. > > john ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: approaching L2 at last...
>>Then again, if I'm thrown an unfamiliar user interface, I can usually >>figure it out anyway. And I *usually* don't break stuff. :) (And if >>something can break *easily*, it's even odds as to whether or not my >>touching it is going to break it, so I wasn't allowed to mess with the >>really delicate database at my last job.) And I like to explore all the >>options in the UI fairly early on, just to see what's there, unless I'm >>just supposed to set the dang time after a battery replacement or a time >>change. :) >> >> Julia > > > > Me, too. But then again, Julia, like me and some others here but > unlike jon and the overwhelming majority of human beings, you're a > geek, and unashamed to let everyone know it. > > > . . . ronn! :) I would have thought that attending a Science Fiction convention (How Jon found out about the list) would be greater proof of geek status than being able to figure out an unfamiliar user interface. Regards, Wayne Eddy ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: quality of life...
- Original Message - From: "Mauro Diotallevi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 7:03 AM Subject: Re: quality of life... > On 5/15/08, Julia Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> No. Nor I. >> >>Julia >> >> not born in the US > > ... which of course begs the question, where were you born? > > And how exactly is "natural born" (as in "No person except a natural > born Citizen") defined? > Perhaps the founding fathers were anticipating IVF & cloning > -- > Mauro Diotallevi > Alcohol and calculus don't mix. Don't drink and derive. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin-l Digest, Vol 381, Issue 3
- Original Message - From: "Charlie Bell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 7:27 PM Subject: Re: Brin-l Digest, Vol 381, Issue 3 > > On 15/05/2008, at 2:19 PM, Wayne Eddy wrote: >> >> What I really wonder though, is why all the "arm waving" about global >> warming? It seems to reason that if fossil fuel consumption is >> destined to >> drop as a result of scarcity, Kyoto is a waste of time and fossil >> fuels. >> Why try to legislate a reduced reliance on fossil fuels when it is a >> physical certainty anyway. > > Um, oil isn't the only fossil fuel. There's a hell of a lot more > carbon bound up in coal than there is in oil or gas. > > Charlie. No it isn't, and I didn't say it was. I said fossil fuel, not oil. Coal is a finite resource too. I just don't understand why there is so much emphasis on global warming as being the main reason to develop alternative energy sources, when it is obvious that fossil fuels are going to become depleted in the short to medium term. Regards, Wayne. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin-l Digest, Vol 381, Issue 3
Hi, Dan, everyone. The article suggested by Kevin (http://www.drmillslmu.com/peakoil.htm) suggests that world oil production has already peaked and the amount produced annually will continually drop, and the price of oil will continually rise. I don't know that this necessarily means a doom & gloom future is a certainty, but I would have thought that even if the data and dates were wildly inaccurate, the general scenario (reduced availablity of fossil fuels) is a logical certainty. I am interested why you think that "the peak oil arguement is arm-waving nonsense." What I really wonder though, is why all the "arm waving" about global warming? It seems to reason that if fossil fuel consumption is destined to drop as a result of scarcity, Kyoto is a waste of time and fossil fuels. Why try to legislate a reduced reliance on fossil fuels when it is a physical certainty anyway. I imagine some will say yes but global warming is bad for the planet, and peak oil is only bad for humans. I beg to differ, if I was an wild animal, I'd be hoping for a human golden age. Climate change could we be a luxury compared to a billion hungry human hunter gatherers. Regards, Wayne Eddy >- Original Message - >From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: >Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 1:06 PM >Subject: Re: Brin-l Digest, Vol 381, Issue 3 >As for peak oil production, with all due respect, a close (we spent 5 >Christmases in a row together) friend had primary responsibility for his >company's participation in _the_ major new US oil play. I personally know >the factors involved. The peak oil arguement is arm-waving nonsense that >has nothing to do with the actual ecconomics of the oil patch. For example, >the arguement doesn't explain why oil fell to (inflation adjusted) prices >not seen since the Great Depression in 1998. I have a model (which is >based on plain Jane vanilla ecconomics) that does explain it. Isn't a >model that fits data superior to a model that has been repeatedly falisfied >when used in the past? >Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Adressing Global Warming
- Original Message - From: "Doug Pensinger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 6:14 AM Subject: Re: Adressing Global Warming > Ronn! wrote: > >> >> >> The point, however, is that you seldom hear of any rich, white, >> American environmentalists offering to stop polluting and green the >> planet by composting themselves . . . ;) >> > > The message I'm getting is that you think environmentalists are inherently > racist, but that seems to be a rather bizarre opinion. Care to set me > straight? > > Doug Seems to me, he is just pointing out the irony in the fact that the Green Movement is a product of affluence which is a product of technology. And more specifically that the Green movement is antipathetic to the technology that has given them the time and resources to become environmentally aware. Am I right? Regards, Wayne Eddy. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: What were they thinking? (MS Office 2007)
- Original Message - From: "Curtis Burisch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion'" Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 4:24 AM Subject: RE: What were they thinking? (MS Office 2007) > Gillete's dictum : give away the razors, charge the hell out of 'em for > the > blades. Sounds very similar to ink jet printer theory. Regards, Wayne. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Food Wars
- Original Message - From: "jon louis mann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 10:01 AM Subject: Food Wars > Independent journalist and broadcaster Gwynne Dyer premiered a new idea > in front of a two-thirds capacity crowd at the Humanities Theatre > Wednesday. The talk, titled Climate Wars, predicted that the wars of > the future would not be fought over oil or to punish rogue states, but > that they would be fought over food. I can't see wars being fought over food. The problem will be cheap energy. With enough cheap energy you should be able to grow all the food you want hydroponically with desalinated or recycled water pumped to where ever you wish. But to be honest, I think the next war will be religion vs technology. When it becomes possible to extend the human life indefinitely, and build super intelligent computers, and create new lifeforms. It will be the people who think it is wrong to play god who go to war against the people who want to play god. Regards, Wayne. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: junk science
- Original Message - From: "jon louis mann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 7:06 AM Subject: junk science > it may trigger glaciation, but no where near as fast as portrayed in > the movie, "the day after tomorrow". I didn't think it would & I didn't say it would. I'm not even saying that it is certain that the gulf stream will shut off. I wouldn't recommend buying property in Vanautu, Bangladesh, New Orleans or Venice, but the only thing I am really sure of is that nobody knows exactly how human caused carbon dioxide emissions will effect the world. Even the seven day weather forecast is never 100% percent accurate. Regards, Wayne. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: junk science
- Original Message - From: "Charlie Bell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 7:09 PM Subject: Re: junk science >> Starvation (drought, a colder Europe if the Atlantic Conveyor fails, >> and reduced farmland), and disease (malaria could easily jump back >> over the Mediterranean and reinvade Europe as the summers get warmer >> and wetter...). You were watching SBS too last night I take it? I missed part of the documentry, but I thought warming is historically followed by increased glaciation. Sea levels may end up dropping not rising, and malaria might fall back towards the equator. All the more reason to worry about things that we know are going to be problems and not things that might cause problems. I agree that sustainable development is a with out a doubt a very good thing, but I still don't think that global warming is the main reason it should be pursued. Regards, Wayne. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: junk science
- Original Message - From: "Charlie Bell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 5:53 PM Subject: Re: junk science > > On 21/04/2008, at 12:48 PM, Wayne Eddy wrote: >> >>> are you asking, or say those three things contribute to the >>> greenhouse >>> effect? war does reduce population, but not enough. it also >>> creates a >>> lot of damage to the environment. in any case all three are factors >>> that increase emissions. reducing any, or all, would certainly slow >>> down the rate of human generated emissions.. >>> jon mann >> >> No I am saying that all three are more cause for concern than global >> warming. > > And warming is likely to lead to the first, and exacerbate the second > (for a while - then it'll ameliorate the second in the worst way > possible). > > Charlie. OK, I can almost see how Global Warming could cause a war. The Greens vs the Industrial Nations or something like that, but I can't see how it can exacerbate overpopulation, unless you think people are more likely to have sex in warm weather. How do you expect that Global Warming will eventually reduce population? Tidal surges into low lying areas or via famine resulting from a reduction in arable land? Regards, Wayne Eddy ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: junk science
- Original Message - From: "jon louis mann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 7:45 AM Subject: junk science > What about: > > 1. People going to war over religious & political differences. > 2. Overpopulation. > 3. Reliance on non-renewable resources. > > Regards, > Wayne > > are you asking, or say those three things contribute to the greenhouse > effect? war does reduce population, but not enough. it also creates a > lot of damage to the environment. in any case all three are factors > that increase emissions. reducing any, or all, would certainly slow > down the rate of human generated emissions.. > jon mann No I am saying that all three are more cause for concern than global warming. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: junk science
- Original Message - From: "jon louis mann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:08 AM Subject: junk science >I think it is pretty obvious that glaciers are receding and it is > perfectly plausible that man made carbon dioxide emissions are > contributing to this, but I don't think this necessarily means the end > of the world, or that it is even the most important issue in the world. > Wayne Eddy > > i can't think of a single more important issue in the world, that is > not related in some way to climate change, wayne. global warming may > not mean the end of the world, but it certainly will affect human > civilization, unless it is addressed. it may actually be a good thing > if our coasts are inundated and our rivers flood. that may be the only > way to reduce human caused emissions, which are certainly not the only > cause of the greenhouse effect. > jon mann What about: 1. People going to war over religious & political differences. 2. Overpopulation. 3. Reliance on non-renewable resources. Regards, Wayne. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: sucky sucky junkscience.com
Hi, Everyone. Charlie, I agree with most of what you say yet again. - Original Message - From: "Charlie Bell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 10:28 AM Subject: Re: sucky sucky junkscience.com > > On 20/04/2008, at 6:56 AM, Wayne Eddy wrote: >> >> I agree with just about everything you say, Charlie. >> >> I don't think the web site Curtis is so upset about is so horrible >> though. >> It is basically just a list of articles from reputable news sources on >> subjects of interest to the owner. Where he disagrees with the >> article he >> adds a disparraging introduction, but if you ignore the intoduction >> that and >> read the articles you actually get a balanced view point. > > If you think so. The overall purpose of the site is FUD, and it's > dishonest. Perhaps, who knows what another persons motives are. Sometimes it is hard to tell the difference between FUD and sincerely held beliefs. For example the much of the outcry against genetically engineered crops seems to be FUD to me, but I'm sure that many people who are anti GM crops are sincere in their beliefs.. >> As for global warming, I think it is pretty obvious that glaciers are >> receding and it is perfectly plausible that man made carbon dioxide >> emissions are contributing to this, but I don't think this >> necessarly means >> the end of the world, > > Very few think it'll be the end of the world. Most who think it'll be > a problem think it'll merely mean death or severe hardship for about a > third of the world's population, and a mass extinction... Where I live > in southern Australia, we're rebounding between long drought and > severe rain (which is mostly running off into the sea...). This is > only going to get worse as mean temperatures rise. In the absence of technological advances, I don't doubt that at least a third of the world's population is in for a tough time. I'm just not sure that it is global warming that will be their main concern. >> or that it is even the most important issue in the >> world. > > I think the world is the most important issue we have. Learn to live > sustainably, get our population growth under control (which ironically > means India and China and everywhere else becoming developed, as birth > rates plummet in developed nations...) and come up with strategies for > dealing with natural disasters so we've got a world infrastructure for > getting aid to where it's needed. We do those things, and we'll be > well on the way to a world that's better for all and will continue to > be so for a good while to come. I agree. It is uncontrolled population growth that is the root of most of the worlds problems. It seems to me that advancing technology increases the world's carrying capacity, but not as fast as the world's population grows. Hopefully technology will catch up one day. >> Regards >> >> Wayne Eddy >> >> P.S. Is there a consensus on the list about how to post? > > Generally just quoting the text you're replying to. Top posting works > in some environments, but doesn't work so well in discussion forums > where one is trying to answer many points. There are some guidelines > somewhere... Paging Nick! Nick Arnett to the courtesy phone! > > Charlie. > ___ > http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: sucky sucky junkscience.com
Hi, Charlie, everyone. I agree with just about everything you say, Charlie. I don't think the web site Curtis is so upset about is so horrible though. It is basically just a list of articles from reputable news sources on subjects of interest to the owner. Where he disagrees with the article he adds a disparraging introduction, but if you ignore the intoduction that and read the articles you actually get a balanced view point. As for global warming, I think it is pretty obvious that glaciers are receding and it is perfectly plausible that man made carbon dioxide emissions are contributing to this, but I don't think this necessarly means the end of the world, or that it is even the most important issue in the world. Regards Wayne Eddy P.S. Is there a consensus on the list about how to post? I rather like top posting, but I will try to change if it is frowned upon. - Original Message - From: "Charlie Bell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 11:12 PM Subject: Re: sucky sucky junkscience.com > > On 19/04/2008, at 10:48 PM, Wayne Eddy wrote: >> >> I wouldn't have thought that challenging the current othodoxy is clear >> evidence that someone is not one of the good guys or that they are >> doing >> wrong. > > Depends how you do it. Examples where someone challenges the orthodoxy > and is eventually proved correct are plenty (Look up plate tectonics, > relativity, black holes, _Helicobacter pylori_, endosymbiosis, > catastrophic impact causing mass extinctions, the age of the earth, > evolution by natural selection, helicentricty...). > > Where it goes wrong is where one challenges the "current orthodoxy" in > the media, in lobby groups, by writing books and doing lecture tours > instead of actually doing any work in a particular field. Particularly > where you're challenging the orthodoxy in a field you don't actually > know too well, like all the "scientists who doubt evolution" lists > that get touted about - lists that include physicists, engineers, > doctors, chemists but practically no working biologists... > > One way is science, the other is crankery. And it's not always obvious > straight away which is which, but it becomes clear in time, 'cause a > scientist who's right about something new and revolutionary will plug > away, and keep producing the results. Eventually, the results speak > for themselves, as in the cases I mentioned above. > > Charlie. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: sucky sucky junkscience.com
Hi Curtis, everyone. I wouldn't have thought that challenging the current othodoxy is clear evidence that someone is not one of the good guys or that they are doing wrong. Regards, Wayne Eddy - Original Message - From: "Curtis Burisch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion'" Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 11:08 AM Subject: sucky sucky junkscience.com > In the past few days, since I've become aware of this site, I've been > reading it avidly - with horror. No idea who funds these guys, but it's > clear they're not the good guys. Check it out if you dare : > http://www.junkscience.com/ > > > > Their beliefs are primarily centred around global-warming-denial. Phoo. > 'Junk Science' indeed! > > > > It revolves heavily about politics, it appears to me; what these guys are > trying to achieve is totally beyond me. I can only at this point watch > their > antics. I'd like to say they are going to fail abjectly, but clearly they > have a respectably large readership. In fact I'm probably failing my own > duties as a human being simply by drawing yet more attention to this > site - > however, I'm compelled to do so, simply because they are doing wrong and > therefore it's my duty to draw attention to them amongst those who are > conceivably concur with my own opinions. > > > > No? > > > > Comments requested! > > > > Regards, > > Curtis. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin: Singularities, Nightmares, and Japanese Sci-Fi
Hi, KZK, everyone, Just because animation is so labour intensive now, doesn't mean that it will be in 5 or 10 or 15 years time. In fact it almost certainly won't be. To say that a dedicated professional studio will always be necessary to produce a quality animated features fails to take into account the current rate of technological progess. Eventually expert systems will enable a single person to do the work of a team, and not long after that AI's will be capable of reading a script and then generating a feature film without any human input. If on the first draft the Soro look a bit too skiny or Gubru plumage not quite what the doctor ordered, it will be a matter of saying so, and it will pop up a few possible variations on the screen and regenerate the whole film over night or in a few minutes depending how far into the future we are talking. We may never travel faster than light, or time travel, but we will be able to see whatever we want to on the big screen. Regards, Wayne Eddy. > Hate to burst your bubble Dr. Brin, but, no that is not going to happen. > It takes enormous amounts of work (man hours) / CPU time and Money > even to do small scale stuff. You should watch the making of > documentary for the sci-fi movie movie _Sky Captain and the World of > Tomorrow_, about how much effort that 100% CGI (sans actors) movie took > to make. The guy who created the film was original working alone and > thought that it would take him 10-15+ years to finish the product. > Their are just way too many things for 1 person, or even a small team to > handle. That is why dedicated professional studio's will always be > necessary for that kind of project. > > Also, how many serious animated drama's have come out of hollywood over > the last ten years? I can count on one hand with fingers left over. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin: Singularities, Nightmares, and Japanese Sci-Fi
Hi David, everyone. The footnote on the ieti.org article about Startide Rising being in pre-production in 1999 left me feeling a bit sad. Is there any chance at all of the Startide movie being resurrected before aliens make contact or we are caught up in the Singularity? If Paramount aren't going to make it, perhaps the Japanese or the Koreans will take up the challenge. I have only ever seen one Korean film (Musa - The Warrior). It wasn't Science Fiction, but it was interesting and featured very good Cinematography. A Korean Startide might be very interesting. I have enjoyed all the Uplift novels, but ever since I first read Startide, I have been waiting for a sequel that shed some light on the fate of the crew of the skiff. I suppose the scale of the events in the second Triology, make their story trivial, but all the same if you revisited that particular sub plot, I could guarantee you at least one enthusiastic reader. As for the possibility of lurkers, I am of the opinion that they don't exist. I suspect that intelligent life is rare and that interstellar travel very difficult, and that's the simple if sad answer to the Fermi Paradox. Regards, Wayne Eddy. - Original Message - From: "David Brin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 5:35 AM Subject: Re: Brin: Singularities, Nightmares, and Japanese Sci-Fi >I exclude positive intervention in order to let them - > or God - off the hook. There is (1) no evidence for > such events and (b) had others the power to intervent, > there have been mega tragedies they could have helped > us to avoid. Just the availablity of glass lenses, > would have let us skip past a thousand hellish years. > > See http://ieti.org/articles/brin.htm ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Colonization of the Solar System & Beyond
Hi all, I am new to the list, but a long time fan of the .. what do you call the Killer B's, now that you have inducted Vernor Vinge? Has the list discussed what it will take to colonise the solar system in the past or is that too almost on topic? It seems to me any colonisation of space will be doomed while it is dependent on any more than token amounts of equipment manufactured on earth, and that with current technology it would take hundreds or perhaps thousands of missions to Mars say, before there would be much chance of building the infrastructure to bootstrap an independent technological civilization. Therefore, it seems to me that the colonisation of space something that is going to have to wait until the singularity starts to kick in. What do you all think? Regards, Wayne (I don't really feel maru enough to put maru in my message, but I will anyway maru) Eddy ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
